In an interview with IT Week, Red Hat chief technology officer Michael Tiemann said the new product – which is expected to be called Red Hat Technical Workstation – will be Red Hat’s first attempt at making a Linux desktop for business users. Unlike its existing desktop product, which is used mostly by programmers and specialists and is often updated, Technical Workstation will be upgraded only every two years to make it easier for third parties to support.
Linux Guns for the Desktop
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Eugenia Loli
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After having used the Red Hat beta (null) pretty extensively, it is really obvious that Red Hat for the first time has made a real effort when it comes to the workstation-part of the distribution. This is obviously a step towards the “Red Hat Technical Workstation”. If the final Red Hat 8.0 is improved as much as (null) is from the last beta (limbo 2), then Red Hat 8.0 will already be a huge step towards a viable work station product.
I would personally call it something else than “Technical Workstation” though. Probably something more related to “power”, than “technical”.
Well, I’ve been running redhat beta, and I’m pretty much loving it 🙂 They have done a great job.. They have cleaned up the menus considerably (somewhat like lycoris), made some very nice icons, and improved and integrated their setup tools alot.. It still isn’t a great for the specialised tasks like professional image editing, CAD work, or stuff.
But alot of people in businesses only need a browser, e-mail client and an office suite. (and developing is pretty nice too).
Seriously this is the way to go if you want to “conquer the desktop market”. Don’t focus on the end-user desktop, but on the corporate desktop. Most end-users I know only switches when they have too, not because the new version is alot faster, cheaper, more stable and all that stuff.. They want to avoid any learning curve, and relearning habits as much as they can. (look at the google statistics, 43% still using windows 98). The corporate desktop is somewhat different in that respect.
I remember years ago people were arguing why Windows was so dominant. One argument that stuck out was the fact that Microsoft went after the corporate workstation. What people use at work, is what they will eventually use at home. Props to RedHat for taking a serious stab at the Desktop. Corel tried and died, Caldera and SUSE tried different routes. Mandrake remains at large. RedHat goes straight to the point with a Corporate Workstation.
Obviously Linux itself is free, but how “free” is the Red Hat
distribution?
Will it be fully legal to buy one copy of Red Hat Workstation and
install it on dozens of computers? Or are there comercial components
that have to be bought for each machine?
As Red Hat must have much lower development costs than Microsoft, they
could probably be quite profitable from selling one copy to each
company. But is that what they plan?
Popularity is important. With Linux, you certain can buy just one copy and install on any number of machines you want. If you’re generous and want to support Red Hat, you should buy more copies of the product. Red Hat is happy to see their products on many desktops especially the ones in the offices regardless of how many copies you buy. Once, the popularity grows, commercial companies would like to port their applications to Linux, and maybe required to run on Red Hat Linux, and don’t care about Debian, Slackware, etc… When commercial software products, especially the productivity ones, are available for Linux I think many companies will consider switching to Linux from Microsoft Windows. Until then, many will still stick with Windows.
Where can I see some screenshots?
Will it be available for free as a download?
Its free, you can even download the beta now. Redhat would like to make money providing the services around the software.
Obviously the more people using Redhat the more people they can sell services to.
I would think that the final step forward is to install the ntfs kernel patch to facilitate a migration path from m$ to Leenux.. wonder if they thought about that? hrmm….mandrk 9.0 beta has it even if it is “ro”
famous quote:
Last week, I left my 2 XP CDs on my dashboard in plain view. Someone broke into my car and left 2 more…
Red Hat has always been very behind Open Source software and the licensing that goes along with that philosophy. There are other distributions that have created, rather attempted to create per-seat licensing, but those particular flavors have alwas seemed to fail. (See Caldera “Open” Linux and the latest United Linux group.)
Personally, I see Red Hat continuing the trend that they have set and will have the no support version of Red Hat Technical Workstation be a free download from the internet and they will also have a boxed version that you can buy with an amount of E-mail, phone and web support.
I also see that like the Red Hat Network, the technical workstation user will be able to keep track of their software updates with one machine, but will have to pay a nominal fee to have the Red Hat Network track the installed software and perform Automated (not Automatic) updates of any additional Technical Workstation installations. Which is totally legitimate and something that I admire in Red Hat’s corporate vision.
The difference between Red Hat and the things that United Linux (Caldera solely before that) are attempting is the reason that Red Hat will likely be the dominate Linux player for the forseeable future. Red Hat has proven that there is money to be made in Open Source Linux distributions and also have full on community support.
The only way that they will see a true colleague in their business model is when some other distro decides that it would probably be best to stop fighting Open Source and duplicate Red Hat’s model of doing business.
You simply cannot do battle with the Open Source community by limiting what they are able to do with your distribution and hope to make it big in Linux. The day that Red Hat does what Caldera and United Linux has done is the day that Red Hat will begin to lose their status as the “Big Dog” in the Linux Distribution world.
Great move for sure, and judging from the Beta, they are certainly working hard at it. I am not sure about the two-year freeze period though. Hopefully, they would still be releasing another version of the workstation every other 6 months.
“Popularity is important. With Linux, you certain can buy just one copy and install on any number of machines you want. If you’re generous and want to support Red Hat, you should buy more copies of the product.”
The idea of generousity and the corporate environment mix like oil and water. No business will pay unless they absolutely have to. If some companies are willing to install Windows on multiple computers illegally, then they’ll gasp for joy by installing one box of Red Hat on multiple computers legally. I sincerely hope that Red Hat will offer some incredibly compelling reasons for a company to keep feeding them year after year. “Support” can only take you so far. Perhaps they should consider buying Ximian and Codeweavers and getting into groupware and binary compatibility with certain Windows-only apps.
i think the model RH is setting up for themselfs is pretty good, going after the biz users with a workstation version
is pretty smart….
If only Evolution worked on windows…..
Im my personal Opinion is:
that for Linux to really dominate apps like
mozilla, apatche,xchat and openOffice,
that run On windows and Linux and VERY important as people get used to software that they can run on anything, then it will be easyer for the to move to linux via mandrake or redhats “workstation”
my 2 cents
Nex6
I sincerely hope that Red Hat will offer some incredibly compelling reasons for a company to keep feeding them year after year.
Red Hat is a veteran in the open source model, I’m sure that they know what they are doing. Seeing how they intend to go for the corporate desktop, it’s clear many enterprises will pay for support after buying the software (they did that for Microsoft, plus the price of software licenses, so the cost goes down anyway).
I’m looking foward very much to this edition when it’s done. However, as someone suggested above, I cannot think of a less compelling name for it than what they’ve come up with. LOL, they have to find a better name for this. Red Hat WorkDesk or something like that – anything is better than what it is now <g>.
To the person that requested screenshots here Texstar at PCLinuxOnline posted screenshots of the Red Hat Null beta which as previously posted is the the beginning of the “Techinical Workstation”
ftp://ftp.ibiblio.org/pub/Linux/distributions/contrib/texstar/scre…
they are the ones named “redhat(01-20).jpg”
I too was previously using Null and it was very nice and professional looking (something mandrake has had problems with…)
on that note i would like to say that i just installed mandrakes rc2 a couple nights ago and have been impressed what i have seen there as well! Warpedsystems has screenshots of rc2 here:
http://www.warpedsystems.sk.ca/modules.php?set_albumName=album09&op…
Um… what kind of desktop OS do you have if there are no desktop applications to run on it?
I realize that plenty of folks in science and tech run *nix apps and that linux is becoming a force in the hollywood visalization scene, but those are niche markets.
How are companies going to use Linux without a GOOD substitute for the accursed MS Office?
I’m not trying to troll here, I’m just wondering.
But as far as home use goes, forget about it. Consumers don’t want to futz w/their machines,
There are several good substitutes for MS Office…
the “obvious” choose is StarOffice/OpenOffice.org
You can also run MS Office in Linux using Codeweavers CrossOver Office product (though you can also get it to work yourself with the stock wine but it’s a lot harder)
Then there are the less obvious…
Most of the apps in the Gnome Office set are pretty good, especially Gnumeric. Koffice is about to officially release 1.2 which is starting to shape up as a very nice office suite. On top of that Gobe Productive is soon coming to Linux which is definetly a competitor!
what else do you want to do?
What Apps do they need.
Office Applications – Numerous = Star/Open Office, Hancomm Office, Koffice, Abiword, Gnumeric etc….
Browsers – Mozilla, Netcape, Konqueror, Galeon ….
Oulook functions – Evolutions, Koffice
Project Management – Mr. Project and I am sure others.
What more is needed by most users?
the time will come when you will be able to purchase more PC’s “PRE-LOADED” with Linux so the hardware you purchase will already be compatiable and you won’t have to mess with anything! and for the time being you can go to some of the smaller venders (or wal-mart) and purchase pre-loaded linux PC’s
When was the last time you used a recent linux? Not trying to gripe, but you sound like you’re talking about Linux ala 1999. I have to “futz” with Linux half as much as Windows at home, plus it was a lot easier to install than 98, ME, or XP.
Also, there is a decent replacement for nearly every Windows app out there. StarOffice/Hancom/goBe/OpenOffice are as easy to use as MS Office, plus with Crossover Office, you can run MS Office easily in Linux if you want it. Xine and Ogle work great for running DVD movies. Evolution, Kmail and a dozen others are better than Outlook. Kylix for development, XMMS or FreeAmp for playing mp3’s, and AOL Instant Messenger for, gee, AOL Instant Messenger, plus gaim, kaim, licq, ksirc…
And now with ELX, Lycoris and Xandros; home computing with Linux doesn’t get any easier.
“What more is needed by most users?”
It’s great to have the major programs that everyone uses covered. However, there are scores of other specialized programs for different industries that will *have* to work in order for Linux to be used as a regular desktop. Under Windows, you already know they’ll work. With the Crossover Plugin, you know that at least Office will work. That’s why the ultimate goal shouldn’t just be getting the major apps working, but all of them. Here’s just a few of what I use:
S&P CD Advantage
Disclosure Compact D
Morningstar Principia Pro
Bloomberg Professional
The last one should be ported by Bloomberg to Linux directly, since I’m 99% sure that the program is just a glorified X Server for Windows, with some file transfer options thrown in.
While your comments are true to the effect that a *typical* linux distro has tools to do pretty much anything a Windows machine can, consider stability.
Several of the apps you have can be very crashy…. their windows equivalnents, at least when I tested them a year ago – run somewhat better.
Which ones are buggy?
“I tested them a year ago -”
well there is your problem…i hate when people say stuff like this…Linux continues to improve and grow at a significant rate ONE year is a LONG time when it comes to the development in Linux.
If they are going to release only every two years they will need to adopt the practice of service packs.
isn’t that what the Red Hat Network is for?
keeping your system up to date?
Why aren’t more companies running Linux in the business world?
If all you need are browsers, Email clients, an office suite, and maybe project management software, why aren’t more folks going with Linux?
Is it FUD?
While i realize that Windows also requires a fair amount of “futzing”, can you honestly tell me that Linux isn’t sometimes a bitch to config? Yes I know, MS OSs’ can be a pain too. I guess one of the only good things about win is that they are drivers and support for most PCs. Even older ones.
Is there any kind of site that offers a broad overview of installing Linux for non-tech types?
It really just a matter of time before linux makes considerable inroads in the corporate desktop. MS’s days are numbered (though that number is still quite large). And once the armor of the desktop starts to crack, so will all of MS’s businesses.
Fear is why businesses haven’t been adopting Linux as fast as Linux distros would like them to. Fear that they’ll end up with something unuseable. Fear their people won’t like it. Fear the applications aren’t capable or suited to their needs.
I won’t recommend an article, but ZDNet did one a couple of weeks back. I personally don’t put much stock in them, MS people are better at loading Windows, and Linux people find Linux easier. The way I learned was to plop down my $69 for RedHat 7.1 and tried it for myself, cold turkey. I went the expensive route with RedHat, I was a newbie and didn’t know you could get them for free. I just saw it in the store one day…
In the business world, however, it shouldn’t be a problem. You hire a Linux IT Manager to install and configure all of the computers or send your current IT Manager for training. Employees shouldn’t be installing software on a business machine anyway, (and can’t on a Linux machine) so incompatibilities really aren’t a problem.
When will RedHat 8.0 be finally released, does anybody know? Briefly, about a month from now? Two weeks from now?
Another couple of questions:
Does Linux support USB? FIrewire? It would seem like peripherals support might be an issue. Is it?
Also, on Gnome and KDE, is there good support for things like copy, cut, and paste?
Desktop wise, what are the areas that are lacking?
What Linux desktops are lacking most to me is consistency between windows. X apps look and run different from KDE apps which looks and run different from Gnome apps, etc.
Copy, cut and paste have worked really well for me in Linux. Anyone out there have problems with it?
USB has been supported since kernel 2.4 was released, maybe earlier. It took some configuration, but it worked. Hot-plugging USB I believe (don’t quote me)is part of the latest kernel, 2.4.19. Haven’t tried it, so I don’t know how well it works. Firewire, I don’t know. Anyone?
the firewire support in 2.4.19 is marked experimental, but it didnt crash when i had it enabled (i have a firewire card)
i dont really have any firewire devices though, so i cant really test it (i do, but i dont have a drive to stick in it, its a ide2firewire bridge more or less)
i would do more testing except i went back to windows xp (xfree refuses to run stable on any system i have ever owned reguardless of what brand and model video card i have, yet runs perfectly fine on the servers i have set up at the store)
the killer office suite will be the open source version of gobe once it hits IMO
A lot of buisnesses use a lot of glue software that depends on microsofts OS. Also some places use a lot of macros. Linux can do this but someone has to convert it all. And in someplaces there is noone to do it.
Also some peripherals need more than just the driver they need software so the user can use it. Like UPS’s backup devices. AFAIK these little bits of software don’t often come bundled with linux. And if its not bundled the user will need an expert to do it for them.
I hope you are serious.
– Installing is trivial. <joke>You could do it</joke>
– Configuration for is nothing.
– Cut, Copy, Paste works
– USB works. What does the average business desktop need Firewire for. Anyway that will be supported soon.
– Linux is perfect for the average coroporate desktop.
-Update at boot via network. IT handles any additional configuration. Everthing is easily done over the network.
– Users can’t damage the system because they can’t log in as root.
– Even better no ActiveX, Macro Viruses or just viruses in general.
– Little Cost.
-What a pleasure.
Now if CIO’s could stop messing around!
Firewire wire works fine for me. I’m running slackware 8.1, and all I have to do to bring firewire up is insert a few modules, wich is done on startup, and rescan the firewire bus with a script when any devices are added or removed. I’m using my cd burner and dvd player over firewire, so I don’t know if there would be problems with any other type of device, though all areas seem covered well.
Updating every two years reminds me of Microsoft.
Windows 95
Windows 98
Windows ME (Around 2000)
Windows XP (Almost 2002)
Granted, getting a firewire hard drive to work like that is a very trivial task if you have any semblance of a clue…
I’ve been trying to help someone get their firewire drive working via script. But ran into the following problems:
1. User reads email in outlook. Saved shell script in windows, ftp’d it over to Linux. Blam, ^M’s in the file, refused to run. Have dealt with this more than once for this user.
2. User gets “bad interpreter” errors when trying to run script but is able to run each command in the script no problem. Sadly, user is totally unable to troubleshoot his own system in this case. (Can’t write own shell scripts).
Basically, users are total idiots….MS doesn’t help
I hope RedHat is trying to do something to help deal with handling removeable hot pluggable storage devices in a nice way.
What seems to be missing from the Linux world is a range of accounts
and tax programs for various countries. Not every computer in a
business needs these, but some do, and if they are missing this would
be a reason to avoid using Linux.
How about stock control and fleet management?
The question is whether you can persuade a business to support a mix
of computers – some running a Linux, and some running Windows because
a particular program is needed.
In some businesses, the creative department insists on using Macs, but
the management never like it. It adds to support costs.
In most “bigger” companies those applications are custom made, and quite often those applications are webbased, and made with Java.
Btw, I don’t think it’s redhat intention to take over the corporate desktop market in one swipe, rather to do it somewhat gradually, so you really don’t need to have every single application ready for the first version.
And if third parties see linux market share on the desktop grow, they might consider porting their tax/stock/fleet management programs.. In the article they said they were going to update it every 2 years, to make it easier for those third parties.
Red Hat isn’t targeting the entire market at once (which would be impossible). From what I see, they are targeting smaller companies, and computers for some cases (like secretary’s computers).
I’m afraid people like Brian aren’t helping the adoption rate of Linux. Yes, we know, all end users who didn’t graduate in CS and who aren’t *nix admins are blithering idiots. Great.
Right, I never understand why people always insist on the apps that are still missing. What’s more important is which applications are already there and how many companies _could_ completely switch. I believe those are quite many.
The longterm target is about 5-10 percent of the (corporate) desktop market. That would be a huge success.
been in the desktop biz for a long time
i work in a UK banking/finance company with 35000 NT4 desktops, the range of apps to support is huge, every large org has very diverse groups of employees to supply desktop systems to, there are also many midrange/large systems hosting databases and associated in-house developers writing wrappers for these databases.
the amount of changes and associated testing to change from NT4 as the base OS would be prohibitive never mind the change to an OS unproven in the corporate desktop
doug, I don’t think Red Hat is going after companies with that amount of workstations. If they are, it would be bad timing, as retraining, support and consultation cost would be too high in this economy weather.
And to Spark, I think 5-10% may be a high target… too high maybe. 1% should be a target big enough….
S&P CD Advantage
Disclosure Compact D
Morningstar Principia Pro
Bloomberg Professional
The last one should be ported by Bloomberg to Linux directly, since I’m 99% sure that the program is just a glorified X Server for Windows, with some file transfer options thrown in.
You can do better than just port these you can redesign these to really take advantage of Linux. For Linux customers its no unreasonable to assume/require they are running a database server like MySQL. Have the database server link the tables in from the host system throw on a “ease of use interface” and you’ve just created a fully scriptable but still usable by beginner financial suite allowing for detailed analysis and research in a truly ad-hoc fashion.
The Linux product should be much better than the Windows product not equally good.
Over the past two years we have been able to convert our 58 workstations to running redhat. The techs spent many hours making the desktops simple and only the apps needed by our staff to conduct business. We have done it now and all works quite well.
We would like see RedHat offer an easy method to manage what links and programs are installed and viewed by the users. The default install is way to complex in that
we spent too much time creating “our” desktop. It was the hardest part of the whole process.
Our users quickly adapted to the desktop and apps – There were few problems there. There just isn’t any good “control panel” that let’s the admin setup a simple system then in a matter of minutes configure the desktop and apps. It is solid for our business though we see that.
And the price is really right.
>There just isn’t any good “control panel” that let’s the >admin setup a simple system then in a matter of minutes >configure the desktop and apps.
I may not understand exactly what you are trying to say here, but from what I understand your admins seperately configured each desktop? Couldn’t the admin have taken 15 minutes and configured a generic desktop on one machine, then sent the .gnome* or whatever window manager’s configuration files to all of the workstations?