After a long development period, we’re ready to introduce the first “release candidate” of OSNews version 4. OSN4 is a very big change for us – for years, we’ve worked with the mantra “We render everywhere.” We are still using MySQL and PHP, like in Eugenia’s OSNews v2, but with the sudden prevalence of newer web technologies, we’ve decided that in order to really offer the best platform for our readers, it was time to enter a brave new world. Read on for details and the link. Updated: (“read more” to see update)
Redesigning OSNews was a challenge. We get email from people that describes their frustration with excessive page loads and missed coding opportunities. But get many readers who tell us that the simplicity of the site is what keeps them coming. The editors all agreed though, that if we were going to redesign the site, we were going to completely redesign it – from scratch. And that’s what we did. OSNews v4, completely and totally rewritten from scratch. You need a modern browser with javascript support to take full advantage of the site, which means many of our users on obscure browsers will be missing some critical features. Unfortunately, removing javascript severely limits us, and it’s required for full site use.
Let’s review some of the new features. First, and most notably, we have “Conversations.” Conversations are short blurbs that most users[1] can add for other users to comment on. OSNews rules say that conversation in the forums must be on-topic. Want to talk about the new Ubuntu? How about expected Leopard features? Want to take a tangential debate offline? You can start a conversation and talk about virtually anything, and not worry about affecting your account standing by getting down-modded for being off-topic. Please note that all conversations and conversation comments posted in the beta period will be deleted when we go live.
Secondly, a not-often requested feature that I personally see a need for and wanted: private messaging. We discussed, on our staff mailing list, the appropriate way to contact a user – do we just use the email they provided us? Do we post something to them? Now we have a way – private messages. PMs offer full functionality. Notifcation, a reply function, a full block list, etc. You can PM any active user who hasn’t blocked you. Yo ucan test the PM system now by sending me a private message during the beta test – the system is configured to auto-respond to PMs to me during the beta test. This is solely so that you can test the functionality of this feature. Note that I will actually receive the messages, so please keep the messages clean (or at least try to entertain me).
Thirdly – AJAX everywhere it made sense. Not overused – no superbloated javascript to slow down every page load and do the same thing we could do in a two lines otherwise. Javascript everywhere it makes sense, but nowhere else. Look for it with bookmarking, recommending, moderation, and starring.
Starring? Yes, I often find on other popular sites that I like to bookmark links to stories, links to comments, etc. So, like the bookmark, you can now “star” a story. Yes, I stole this idea from Gmail. Yes, it’s the same star. What’s the difference between recommending and starring? Think of recommending as telling other users “you should read this” and starring as a bookmark for yourself.
RSS. A lot of it. Seriously. Check out every user’s profile. Every users has about 6 custom feeds, and there are about 100 others for the main site. Please note that these feeds are only currently accessible if you change the URL to www4. However, do NOT subscribe to them yet, as the URL *will* change to when we go live.
CSS. A lot of it. Seriously. Since the site can be templated, we may be inclined at some point to offer multiple themes or just flat out replace the default one at some point.
Comment displays are now more flexible. You can view comments as flat, nested, or threaded. Furthermore, you can view all comments in one page, and you can even sort them by score. Comments below your threshold will inline but grayed out, and should you be tempted to read them anyway, you can drop them in place.
Speaking of comments, on replies, there is now a button that says “Quote Parent.” This allows you to place the text of a parent comment into [q] tags. As of right now, this is the proper way to quote a comment. The quoted comment will appear in its own field, clearly demonstrating that it is quoted text (see image on the right). You can begin to use the q tags RIGHT NOW; they are backported to v3 and will render as regular italics.
Avatars! Well, this is really in beta right now because I’m still playing with image resizing. Right now all images are converted into PNG by PHP, transparency is not supported, and images over 500K return a server error, but we’ll iron those issues out before rollout. Most standard, reasonably-sized images should work just fine. At first, this may seem unnecessary (and should you decide it is, you can turn them off in your preferences), but I’m telling you, after using v4 almost exclusively for several weeks now, they are great for identifying people’s comments.
Speaking of which, the people with whom you have a relationship (either a friend of yours, a fan of yours, or both) will have comments colored differently than everyone else to quickly draw your attention. Your own comments will be a garish green – until I replace it with a better background. Let’s look at the image to the left. Notice the friend is green, the fan is yellow, the mutual friend is orange, and the regular comments are a nice light green wave.
We got polls! Although we don’t have any real polls visible yet, v4 supports native polling, which was long overdue. We are using jpgraph to generate graphs. Neat stuff.
News tags. Once in awhile, something will come up like MacWorld, WWDC, WinHEC, etc, where several articles will be logically grouped together. For right now, each article can have a keyword and clicking the keyword will bring you to that group. For the time being, here is an example: Meta.
Headlines are integrated into the sidebar. For now, we offer three feeds: the OSN Staff Blog, OSGalaxy,
and Gnomefiles.
We built a much needed, greatly expanded search. Want to find your old comments from the days before registration? So did I. Click the “Advanced Search” link in the sidebar to explore our search facility.
Advertisements are integrated throughout the site, and everyone sees them while in beta. When I take the beta flag off, they will disappear for subscribers. I also intend to offer subscribers some other goodies in the future, such as free ice cream with each visit. Well, okay, we can’t offer that, but we’re looking into other features.
We’re very excited to hear your thoughts on OSNews v4. We’ve had several users testing it and providing feedback, and thus far, the response is overwhelmingly positive. Please use the comments in this thread to discuss OSNews 4, not the Conversations section (although you can use that too, but let’s keep the discussion in one place). Feel free to test Private Messaging with me, as my account will automatically reply to you.
So, without further ado, OSNews, version 4 Beta.
[1] There are several criteria to judge if you’re elligible to start a conversation, detailed on the start conversation page. If you can’t post, it will tell you why.
Update: Let me address two issues: First, the graphic design of the v4 site as it stands is not finalized, so don’t spend too much time fretting over it. For the purposes of this testing, we’re primarily concerned with how the whole system works, so try out the new features and check out the old ones. Second, some people have pointed out that the new site uses Javascript, CSS, and other newfangled stuff that will make some alternative, antique, mobile, or otherwise weird browsers puke. Don’t you worry about that! Before we take this site live, we’ll make sure that every OSNews reader gets a clean, readable version of the site, no matter what browser they’re using. Thanks — David Adams, Publisher.
I think my only real problem with it is everything is to the left of center. It appears more then a third of the right side of the screen is used up by links and dead space, making things a little awkward on a 20 inch monitor because everything else is shifted so far to the left. With the current version, everything is centered nicely making it easier to read. The lemonade color scheme seems a little garish as well compared to the nice subtle gray. I do like having the recent comments on the right hand side, though this site gets commented on a little faster then I can follow. I also like having direct links to some of the account things, like messages there.
As I just replied to your PM:
I use a 20″ iMac at home, and I haven’t had a problem with it. The thing is, it’s not 1/3 of the screen – it’s 255 pixels at max – shouldn’t get any wider. On a 20″, you should see the vast majority of the text widely spaced across the page.
Even with dynamic layout it’s a good practice to limit maximum width and center the page after certain size. Wasting space is not bad but looks bad if it’s not symmetric
I’ve limited the page to 95% of the available width to center things a little. I’ll research it and maybe we’ll limit it to a certain number of pixels if people still complain.
I do much prefer the percent approach rather than the pixel approach. The percent approach scales better me thinks.
I like the centered approach better as well. It’s always been one of the nice things about OSNews that set it apart from other sites.
That said, my monitor’s not big enough for me to see the difference. To me, OSNews v4 looks sweet!
Edited 2007-03-24 09:37
I see similar on my 22″. The right hand area doesn’t seem to be right aligned to the page so there is a chunk of dead space to the right of it between it and the page boundary.
Also I’d suggest, that the right hand stuff needs *something* to differentiate it from the main content, be that boxing it, putting some divider, but as it stands it is quite distracting when scanning across the page/articles/comments to have text just hanging there.
Instead of
%div id=”side”%
how about
%div id=”side” style=”float:right”%
Just played with that in Opera (live editing) and that ‘fixes’ things there at least…?
Everything is left justified which I don’t like all that much, current version of OSNews is all centered, which makes navigation easier since you aren’t moveing the mouse back and forth all the way across the screen.
completely agree … why, o why, it does not uses 99% of my page with? It looks really silly on my 1420 x 1024 screen.
Here is what i mean: http://img506.imageshack.us/img506/9798/wastedhc7.png
Edited 2007-03-22 20:17
Might be reserved for ads?
Centres up fine for me (1600×1200, Firefox, Opera, Konqueror) – perhaps it’s been fixed now, ALTHOUGH IE6 spreads it across the whole screen (less good).
I rarely run my browser full width anyway because lots of sites crunch up to the left, and 1600 is just too wide for browsing.
I normally run Opera with 120% zoom on the page as standard (nice feature), as 1600×1200 is great for my graphics work, less good for reading in a browser.
I must say i don’t like the new look of the site, it kind of looks too traditional, however, the new features seem very promising.
CSS
RSS
Javascript
So this is the “Internet Explorer Only” version of OSnews?
At least the layout’s main column is no longer fixed-width…
Welcome to 2007, dude. I know this is an obvious troll, but for the record, I’ve tested the site in Safari, Camino, Firefox, Opera, and IE7. CSS, RSS, and JS are all cross platform technologies, most of which are better supported than browsers other than IE.
What about my beloved konqueror?
Works in Safari, should work in Konq… let me know, ok?
It seems to work
Anyway, in both firefox and konqueror, when I resize my window to a relative small size (width 900px more or less) the right menu disapears
Damnshock
EDIT: the right menu moves to the bottom of the page
Edited 2007-03-22 18:07 UTC
That happens with Internet Explorer 7 also, so it’s a cross platform bug 🙂
Hardly extensive testing, but a quick browse around the site didn’t throw up any obvious problems with Konqueror.
If I get the time I’ll be doing a very thorough test. I don’t like the idea of any “capable” browser missing critical features.
Indeed. It works just fine in FireFox for me.
What’s Internet Explorer specific about it? Those are all standards.
… And firefox, and Opera, (and Safari?)
I think the current layout with the boxes around the news items is much clearer than the new layout where news items and Google ads are mixed without any kind of separators.
I agree.
The title boxes are very nice. It does get difficult viewing threaded comments though. I also think the highlight for “my comments” is a little colour-rich when compared to the rest of the site.
Drink Duff beers. Hooooo Yeeaaaaahhhh!
I like the avatar feature too
I would prefer it if the navigation bar was on the left (the whole site feels slightly back-to-front to me), but thats not a big complaint to be honest.
In general, I like the changes. A bit of tweaking during the beta period and I think you’ll have a winner
I think that the default avatar is way too intrusing. It really looks as if ssomebody is talking to himself all the time.
In general, I do NOT like the avatar idea, at leasst design-wise. The beta site looks OK and uniform now, but when people start coming up with their own avatars it will turn tur into a cachophony of shapes and colors. Perhaps limit it only to chosing one of OSNEWS predesigned avatars?
Well, that’s an idea, but that would prevent people using their real picture as avatar and I find that to be a point to consider at least. I mean, I (and I suppose many other) would want to do just that.
./nalle.
Love the new feature list! Congratulations to OSNews on getting the infrastructure together.
The new look is pretty scary. The OSNews logo is a little too web2.0ified for my tastes, and the “Submit News” button looks quite unprofessional. Plus, it wouldn’t be a bad idea to columnize things again so that everything doesn’t just flow out of everything else.
Still, always nice to see OSNews come out with a new version of the site. There has definitely been a lot of hard work that should be appreciated.
I think the submit button is going to be replaced…this is just a placeholder.
There is too much clutter. The news features (especially the headlines) are hard for the eye to skim. And the lines of text grow too wide to read in a big window.
Here’s an example of what I mean: The headlines have one indention due to the star icon on the left. Then comes the dating with another indention and then the main text with a third kind of indention and the comment count with a fourth indention. This stuff needs rational alignment.
All-in-all: Better alignment, more boxes and more spacing. That’s how you make stuff easy for the eye, and that’s really a key concept when you make a site that people skim through 2-3 times a day.
Sorry to say so, but I really think you can come up with something better.. or at least improve stuff.. I don’t mean to say “redo the whole thing”.
I like the fresh colors though. The current OSNews is a bit sad… you should do more prozac commercials
Edited 2007-03-22 15:03
I’m digging the new look. Everything is so… green.
The eye… It’s talking to me, the eye is talking to me! It tells me to do things… Burn things. Kill things.
Instead of the “Add Bold” and “Add Italic” (or was well as?) how about using the
document.selection.createRange().text
document.getSelection()
window.getSelection()
functions to allow a person to type, drag select the text and click the button (which would then grab the selected text, parse it and paste it back in?
Heh, I’ve been faffing about with this since I suggested it and its after 2am here so I should really stop… but… must… get it… working.
Those don’t work in textareas. There are javascripts out there that can capture highlighted text from a textarea, but in to get, find, and replace subsets is much more difficult.
Oh, the text selecting functions do work within the textarea, the problem is then finding out if it was already within the textarea, and if so, replacing the existing subset (as you say).
The other conditions are all easy (because text is just added at the end of the textarea in those cases)
I’m heading off for the weekend now but if I manage to come up with something for that that you can pop in place, would you want it?
whoops— dupe.
Edited 2007-03-23 02:34 UTC
Beat you to it! I’ve already implemented it!
I would like to be able to click on the link of pending news.
Today you can see the list of news not published, submited by readers. I would like to be able to see which article they are refering to because:
1) I don’t want to link the same article.
2) Sometimes I saw interesting articles that the ‘moderators’ are not interested in and thus not published.
Thanks!
I feel that.. it is toooooo whiteeee…
we should be able to personalize it…
It doesnt have that elegant professional touch
Well, OSNews never had an elegant professional touch.
Always looked ugly.
I must say, with a few nitpicks that I won’t mention, because I don’t really care that much, I really like the new schema! Bravo, my winged simian web-coding friends, bravo! i hope they give you an extra banana!
I consider the current site design to be the absolute best out of all the tech news sites I visit. It’s always fast and it literally renders everywhere. We’ll see if the new one matches it.
It’s definitely good to see osnews step up to the plate to update a bit, and I generally like the new layout. I will agree with some other commenters that there are a few things to look at:
-new logo is too web 2.0
-things seem to be a bit left
-there should be more boxing or dividers or something to keep the meat of the content as the focus
-submit news image looks like something from a late 90’s site that said “Under Construction”
OSnews is probably the most important news site to me, second only to my personal email as something that I keep up with, so it’s nice to keep the simplicity to it. I’m very excited to see the preview of the new layout, and hope with some tweaks we see it soon.
Renders fine on opera mini on my cell.
Browser: Opera/8.01 (J2ME/MIDP; Opera Mini/3.1.7139/1644; en; U; ssr)
Opera mini is served v3-mobile, not v4. But it’s good to know that redirection works!
whoops – my bad!
Edited 2007-03-22 17:47 UTC
Nice features, but I don’t really like the look. Too bland for my taste. That submit news button… the font doesn’t does well with the overall look, and the inclination serves no purpose. The right bar really needs some love, you need better separation between blocks.
As I said, the features are great, but the look needs major improvements and polishing. Keep the good work guys!
Interestingly, none of my Firefox browsers seem to be able to render the stuff on the right side of the site (recent comments, etc.). 3 different distros and a Windows machine, and none of them seem to be able to do it (yes, javascript is turned on); it shows up at the bottom of the screen. Opera and IE seem to be fine, though…is there something I’m missing?
Edited 2007-03-22 15:12 UTC
I’m writing this from Firefox 2.0.3 Windows 2K and the right bar seems to render just fine :/
How odd. All my Firefox installs are 2.0.3, and I get the same thing from Ubuntu, Suse, and Slackware, as well as Win2K.
It might be that your browser window is too small. It happens to me when I change the window size (the right bar is moved to the bottom)
I had the same problem initially, I just had to widen my browser window.
I’ll have to test it out later, but one of my favorite things about the current OSNews is that it actually renders very well in links, I wonder if this new version will too?
Well, it looks good in lynx, you get redirected to the mobile site. The main drawback is that you can’t reply to, or mod comments. But reading articles & comments is easy, and looks good.
I miss not having theme options in user preferences. It’s nice to be able to switch between the blue and green themes from time to time.
Also on the front page and comment pages, I don’t like how all the articles are simply separated by empty space on the page. I like how the previous setup was with each article summary and each comment being in it’s own aesthetically pleasing box.
Much nicer than the old site, particularly the “recent comments” feature.
OK just reading about this, first thing, top has background color, bottom does not. I’ll be looking at your CSS, though I know that will evolve. The end product I am sure will be quite excellent. However If
I look at current site, it’s quite excellent already.
I can see you intoducing some new features. Anyway don’t rush. We shall do cross-browser testing.
That’s intentional; it’s called a gradient.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gradient
There isn’t any favicon with the new logo. And I think OSnews team should do a clean up in the CSS at http://www.cleancss.com
I like more the menu in the left and the news on the right.. 🙂
Good work!
I love the new look, except, for just that, the menu needs to be on the left. I agree with ya.
* Revamp of comments is nice.
Two major dislikes:
– The lack of separation between stories (versus current “box” and space between each story which makes it easy to read through titles fast)
– The left alignment (versus current center). At least invert columns – menu/tools on left so it would make the beginning of main story around center.
I agree, but that could easily be fixed by putting background on the headline.
I am a fan of centering the output within X% of the screen area, but that’s me…
Edited for typo!
Edited 2007-03-23 10:49 UTC
I love the new design! The only thing I would change is the font of the “Submit News” link at the top right. The “stencil” style is indicative of a fact or information, not exactly of interactivity.
Unrelated: you guys need an internet radio show! Get some guests and discuss things! That would be greattt.
The word you’re looking for is “podcast”, and I think they tried that a while back. It went for about 2 episdoes
An “Internet radio show” doesn’t have to be a “podcast.”
Finally, no more click-through moderation. Instant AJAXy moderation is mucho bettero.
A few things:
-Get rid of the huge submit news button in the corner.
-Make the text under the logo “exploring the future” darker so it can be read on the background
-Make a fixed width version of the site, 800-900 pixel ought to be enough.
Great job overall I think.
This is true, definitely much better.
Don’t get rid of that button, it’s a good idea.
This doesn’t matter, no one reads it anyway; but it is really hard to read on my CRT, easy on my LCD.
Liquid is the way the web was meant to be, make more of it liquid if you can.
Liquid is the way to go but I guess you didn’t experience reading text spanning across 24″ display
Even on my 19″ widescreen LCD (1440 pixels wide) it’s a bit hard.
I think when I click to open a story it should be the comments one. Why click two times.
At the main page I can see the news text..
Thank you very much for all your hard work.
Just to my eye, but a small amount of line space between the headline (and the linked line) and then the summary text might help. And perhaps it might look neater if the summary text didn’t run round the icon but stayed to the right of it?
Everything works out nicely on my widescreen here, anyway, better than do many sites which are set up for 4:3 but struggle to manage 16:9.
Why don’t you put the ads over to the right? I can’t imagine Google is happy about the adds on the bottom, and having them on the right would even out the weight of the page a bit.
The submit news button looks painfully out of place with the rest of the site.
I’d go to putting it as “just another link” on the site, if you want it to be prominent then in the top menu but not as a huge great image there.
If it was there to try and balance out the top of the page, you need another plan for that because it looks tacky.
I like it, but I’d like to see a clearer separation between stories. Like slashdot, having the backgrounds of titles another color or something.
Two thumbs up. Much appreciate your effort.
About the submit news button: it’s not final. All artwork (i.e. the logo as well as the submit news button and even the colour scheme) is not finalised yet.
Yep, I’d seriously reconsider having it as it’s own separate entity though (the submit button). Maybe make it a link in the top menu bar but to the right? It just… having it separate even with a different *graphic* will be a bit out of keeping with the rest of the site.
Good, becasue that logo is ugly as sin, as they say.
I am really sorry, I love the new features, but I *hate* the new look.
I have been reading OS News daily for as long as I can remember. It is the only web site I visit daily. If the new look comes in, I’ll stop coming here. It makes my eyes hurt!
The main problem, for me, is that the main body of the page is left of centre, with the navigation on the right. This is feels very awkward indeed.
Secondly, I really miss the boxes around things: they made things easier for me to pick out of the page.
Thirdly, I really dislike the stark background. I have problems with dark text on a bright background, and the OS News Beta is one of the worst examples I have seen.
Finally, I thought the old site looked great.
Please, please, please rethink the new look and feel. I really don’t want to give up my OSNews addiction!
I completely and whole heartedly agree with every comment you’ve made.
My initial feel was, omg, where are the nicely laid out boxes? why can’t the text be the middle so my eyes don’t wonder? What is with the annoying colour scheme?
I am always open to change, but I think the current 3 release has got the motif nailed. Please at least consider a skin or theme engine so we can choose the current design!
* Avatars. It just becomes competition who has the biggest Avatator.
* Ajax. It gives too much trouble.
* Messaging. I have e-mail for that.
No, seriously, I like OSNews as it is. It looks like you guys are transforming into some kind of forum. For reading operating system related news, the current site does the job perfectly, I have absolutely no complaints. I can even read it in Links. I prefer sites that do one thing, and do that good.
Technology is nice, but it must serve a purpose.
Edited 2007-03-22 16:01
Go to Preferences. Change Throttle Bandwidth to “Lite Mode” which removes avatars. Done.
The features seem real nice. The design less so. My comments about it (sorry if I’m repeating other posts here, didn’t read them all)
– Others mention that the text is too much on the left side – I think its OK, we are just too much used to the current layout
– The main menu is unattractive though. How about rounding the corners, making the gray lighter?
– The big “Submit news” is silly, but i guess its temporary
– I would move the recommend/email/print buttons to the page where the full article is and nove comment count next to the title
– The green gradient background needs to go. But that might be my personal taste
– On the right side all the links in black bold letters – its really not obvious that they are links
edit: umm the ultra-green under the title of my post hurts my eyes a bit
Edited 2007-03-22 16:02 UTC
Hate the new logo. Go with the old logo. And tone down the squashed catapillar gut green. Other than that, looks pretty good.
Are you changing the site just for the sake of change? I think the current site is one of the best on the web.
It’s great to see OSNews updated. It looks way better, and the has some useful features compared to v3.
There are a few things that I think could be improved:
– the HUGE “Submit News!” image – it’s way out of place
– the right column:
– on resolutions > 1024×768 it’s too big. There is too much white space around it (I suggest making it fixed)
– on 800×600 it goes at the end of the page (???) – Firefox 2.0, WinXP
– there is no clear separation between the sections (search, welcome, your account etc). I’ve searched for quite a while the link to my profile. The right column is a big mess
– I don’t like that I get taken to a new page when I post a comment/reply. I’d like to see what has been said before me. The Add Bold and Add Italic buttons are too ugly and plain
Overall, v3 looks more simple, readable, inviting, but v4 is cuter, has some much needed features and has more potential.
I still prefer the old site, albeit just a minor adjustment say to the width of the boxes,make them a little more wide. I prefer the a new color scheme, not the green type implemented in the new version. Can we put different themes on it? If it is then you have my vote.
I actually like the layout myself. On my aging 17″ monitor at 1024×768 res, for the most part it looks good, though the banner ads on the main page bleed over into the search box area until they disappear. (using firefox oe Konqueror)
Also unless I maximize my window, the right column moves all the way down to the bottom below the articles, but as I usually use maximized windows in my browsers, I didn’t notice at first.
logo, I do like the original better, but the new one is still nice
avatars and messaging I could do without, but if the graphics are kept small in size (both dimensionally and in filesize) I could live with them.
You should use CSS slicing so that you use only one large .png image file with all your graphics and map them. It’ll load a LOT faster.
Also, gather all your .js files into one single big and optimized .js file with no carriage retuen and comments.
You can dramatically optimize your CSS files. There are many ways you can do it, also, remove spaces and carriage returns as much as you can. There’s an article on how to achieve better CSS optimization: http://www.osresources.com/9_3_en.html
The new logo is not very esthetic. I prefer the current one. Good luck.
I like the new site, especially the comments page. The ad banners that are fairly wide cover up the search and other things on the right side though if you are not viewing with a wide window. Other than that one quirk I think the site is pretty nice.
*edit* I’m an idiot!
Yes, for your first error, to fix it would be a simple style=”text-align:right;”
Edited 2007-03-22 16:40
Yeah! I like your new design, at first glance, it’s less heavier than before, it’s cleaner, shinning, I have not digged yet inside it but i am, by now, comfortable with it.
Expect Demo not to be like ms longhorn,
Keep it real, you’re great!!
On the plus side it seems you’ve added a bunch of nice technical improvements, and some nice AJAXy bits and pieces. I also like that my posts are highlighted for example.
On the minus side I don’t like the new layout and color scheme at all. And another thing I noticed is that when I click to reply to a post I can’t read the post I’m replying to while composing my reply. Very annoying.
So if you want my opinion, keep the look of the site essentially like it is and just add the technical improvements.
I’ll have to post my vote against the left-sided orientation of the site, as well.
Overall, the new look makes the site feel more “modern”, but I prefer the old site’s ‘straight-down-the-middle’ layout.
If you read OSNews using a RSS reader, the links to the articles still point to the current site, not to the beta. So it is not possible to try the beta site that way. I’d like to suggest that you make the links to articles in http://www4.osnews.com/files/recent.xml point to the beta site.
and you’re still sending the old version out to devices!
(Opera Mini, p910i)
I do like the new site, even with the “needed” JavaScript and the awkward inline images. So can our mobile browsers get the new love too ?
Is there something missing from the current mobile design? With the desktop version, we knew we were missing lots of features. But I don’t see the ability to add those features to devices that don’t support Javasacript, don’t support CSS well, and don’t support cookies.
The new logo? Not being able to score posts?
The added benefit of going with CSS and JS means you only need one page and my mobile would consume the exact same code. It’s happy to, (Opera pre-filter it anyhow), but its good for most sites I visit.
Also, on a side note, the title shows your system ate my ellipsis, “…”
Mopbile support is incomplete when you do stylesheets with media:handheld.
Our code is VERY VERY intentionally written cHTML that Eugenia has developed after a long time of studying it.
Opera Mini supports cookies
I know because gmail uses them.
But the mobile version is for all browsers, including many older phones, not just Opera mini… so you see the problem?
Yes, I know, I was just saying…
Of course, you, I and many others know it’s laughable to call what phone vendors ship “browsers.” More like glorified text readers!
Then again, I’m of the belief that the world would be a better mobile “browsing” place if people would just use opera mini instead of netfront (ugh!), etc.
I like the new comment system, No longer do I have to hold the ctrl/apple key(linux/mac) to mod someone up without reloading the new page
No disrespect but…that looks clunky. This version we are currently on is much “cleaner”. However, seems to be working with my Firefox 2.0.0.3.
It’s said “without further adue,” but it’s not written that way.
It’s supposed to be beta, right? It looks really weird on safari. The main content is not centered (alright, this may be a feature), but the right “column” with info runs AFTER the main one stops, on the right. Now this is weird! Also there’s a stranded “Older Stories” at the bottom which is alone and looks all out of place…
Something’s not right.
Will there be an OSNews Classic though?
V4 features with a V3 skin, would be soooo sweet.
Listen to this man, for he speaketh words of wisdom
Why is there no box around the left side page like in earlier design. Current design doesn’t look that clean.
I would prefer a box (or boundary) to separate sections.
There’s nothing wrong with current design. And you know, if it’s not broken, don’t fix it.
New features are a different story but they don’t really require a redesign…
I don’t like the new design. It’s somewhat “painful” to read, as in – it actually hurts my eyes. Kinda like trying to look at a bunch of black/white stripes in any kind of pattern. I think the gradient in (some of) the background(s) contributes to this. I noticed it’s not in the main site/comment view, but those hurt too. Must be the color combination.
Also, the information seems disjointed. Comments have a far-to-large header. Same for stories. Too much “bloat”, in other words.
I don’t mean offense, but it seems like a poorly done version of digg. I’m not a huge fan of digg, but their interface is at least aesthetically pleasing. This “new” design, is not. At least, not to me.
I do agree the site needed some work done, but hopping on the “digg”-like site bandwagon was not the way to go about it. I realize the sites are sim. and thus will share sim. interfaces, but this is just silly.
Something more akin to how old-slashdot “modernized” to new-slashdot would have been MUCH better. The old interface really wasn’t that bad. It could have used some aesthetic changes and usability changes, but this v4 interface is unusable to me.
If it goes live in this current form with no way for me to continue using v3, I will be leaving this site. I simply can’t read the news for more than 10 seconds without my eyes hurting.
Edited 2007-03-22 18:35 UTC
Oh please. There’s nothing about this version of the site that is digg-like. Adding Ajax does not mean a site is “ripping off digg.”
I know people don’t like change, but being a little constructive before you announce your intention to leave us is generally a little more effective than making some elequent speech about how it’s your way or the highway.
Excuse me, but I made my post quite clearly as MY opinion. Your design/work/efforts are of your own undertaking, and I’m sure you didn’t set out to rip off digg or any such thing.
You’re also making assumptions as to my logic/impressions. I never said “because you added AJAX functionality, you are ripping off digg” – I simply stated my opinion about how things looked.
Also, you assume I don’t like change – I do. I liked slashdot’s modernization. I’m in the process of revamping my own site, as well.
I was constructive, I stated the reason I would leave is that the site design physically *hurt* me/my eyes. I made that quite clear. I even gave a few reasons why I thought that might be true. Nowhere I my post was I criticizing the design in an non-constructive fashion.
However, your response to my post is a bit insulting. You’re welcome to attempt to justify/defend your new design as much as you like – of course – but my opinion still stands as MY opinion. You asked for feedback, and you received it. Maybe you should not have made a public post asking for commentary if you did not want both positive and negative replies. I would understand your defensiveness if I directly attacked you/whoever did the redesign, or if I was hyper-critical without any validity to my statements.
That said, pointing out the site hurts my eyes, pointing out it *looks* like *another* digg clone (to me), and pointing out I felt the headers in the comments were far too large – is not my idea of being hyper-critical or non-constructive. I am not implying that you set out to copy digg, or any such stupid thing. Don’t make silly assumptions when reading a critique.
Now, if you would like to reply to my post in a constructive fashion, feel free – I will be HAPPY to address your issues. However, I am not going to defend my opinions, yet again, to you. They are my opinions – not yours.
As to your last comment “your way or the highway”, maybe you should read my posts a little more carefully. The new site HURTS my eyes. Physically hurts them. I’m not going to come read a site that HURTS me physically. I’m not going to apologize for that, either. Don’t make statements about my personality, as if I am some kind of whiny little kid who will leave because I didn’t get my way.
If I were that kind of person, I would have left long ago when site admins/editors/etc started making rude comments directed at users. No, instead – I stayed – and I dealt with issues that cropped up as they came. If you look at my comment history (and score history) I think you will see I am not the kind of person you are apparently attempting to make me out to be.
Oh, and as a previous commenter mentioned, I think the main page needs some kind of separation between stories. Right now they blend together too much.
Edited 2007-03-22 18:58
What exactly “hurts your eyes?” The green gradient is only a few hundred pixels long, then it’s just plain white all the way to the bottom. Does the white hurt your eyes? Does black text do it? Is it the background images for the comment headers?
Be specific, don’t use condescending language, don’t use vague terms like “I like Slashdot’s modernization but this looks like digg!” Give some real feedback, and I will almost definitely end up providing you what you need. Continue to hurl the same threats and I will be the first to wave goodbye.
Honestly, I have no time for someone who doesn’t offer something helpful. This is a community. Those who contribute are rewarded. Jerks are treated as such.
Tell me what I can do to help you, don’t just come to our forums to bitch and threaten to leave. I’ll do what I can and there will be no hard feelings.
I was clear in my prior posts concerning this.
As to the rest of your comment, you lost my respect, and I am not going to dignify your post with a response.
Good luck.
I just want to understand — that’s clear? I don’t know what the problem is – using black and white? I don’t see stripes anywhere. As I said, the gradient is only behind the header, the rest of the page is white. Is black and white the problem? I guess I’ll never know.
I offered to help you above. You’re opting to turn it down. I just want you to realize that.
You seem to just want to insult me and make threats (something you accuse me of.) Calling me names then “offering” your help isn’t exactly a very good way of handling things, wouldn’t you think?
I cannot tell you what specifically is causing the problem, as I cannot edit your site to add/remove/change things to determine what “fixes” the problem. I described the problem as best I can, and offered a possible cause. This is as clear as it can be possibly made.
Your making it hard for me to help you, because you’re suggesting that I have an agenda to attack you, but you’re not really helping. I’m really eager to hear feedback and make changes – that’s the purpose in this exercise – but can you understand how frustrating is it to hear people say “I don’t know why, but I hate it”? Where does that leave me? Just ditch it and start over?
I think it’s completely fair for me to ask for specifics, and if you can’t provide them, you’ll have to live with best-guess. Am I wrong here?
#1 – I did not say “I hate it”.
#2 – I am not suggesting you have an agenda to attack me, I am pointing out that you *are* attacking me, at least in prior posts. This one isn’t.
#3 – I understand your frustrations. I’ve dealt with much the same. All people who’ve down website design/layout (or any kind of graphical design/layout) know how frustrating it can be.
Nobody is suggesting you ditch and start over (well, at least – I am not.) It seems you made the site easily themed – that’s half the battle. You’re just going to have to keep tinkering with the theme until you find something that pleases the majority. Judging from most of the comments here, you have not found this “ideal” design/layout/color scheme/font choice, yet.
It is fair for you to ask specifics, and even if it wasn’t fair – I wouldn’t mind you asking. However, I have been as specific as I can possibly be without being able to manipulate things myself and via trial/error determine what the offending parts of the site are.
As to “have to live with best-guess”, no – not really. If the site continues to hurt my eyes and I cannot choose a theme which does not – I will have to leave – as I stated before. I don’t “have to live” with anything.
I am hopeful that you will get the theme tweaked to make most people happy. I am hopeful that this design will be pleasant for me, as well. I’m not paying you to do the work – so I am not expecting you to cater to me and only me. It is a community site, as you have pointed out many times over. I’ve done my best to voice my issues as clearly as I possibly can given the constraints I am operating under. It is the best I can do.
Others have voiced complaints much in line with mine. In fact, the general opinion (from the replies) seems to be: “Features are wonderful, we love them! Design needs work!” There is no shame or anything negative in this at all. Yes, you’re just going to have to keep shooting in the (relative) dark until you come up with something that works for the majority. Yes, it’s frustrating. All you’re going to get to go by are relatively vague suggestions/complaints, because without being able to manipulate the site directly – users can NOT determine what will/won’t work when it comes to aesthetics. We can only attempt to hint at suggestions.
Mine: Something is wrong with the colors. That, combined with the disjointed main page == eye trauma. The main stories need something to “break” them up (maybe header blocks like they used to have.) The left/right menu is too cluttered looking, it’s not clean like it used to be. The ad box looks out of place.
That’s pretty much the same as my original post, and it’s the best I can muster.
Edited 2007-03-22 20:27
Fair enough. I’ll be working on themes, hopefully you’ll stick around and we’ll find something that makes us happy, or at least is a good compromise.
For the record, I’m not offended by criticism of the design, I’m not a designer, this is a first draft, it was intended to gather feedback, and a large part of why I broke up the CSS as I did was to accomodate changes. I *am* offended by comments that are overly and rudely critical (more than one uses the word “hate”), and you may have born some of the frustration of me reading several of them.
Sounds like a plan. I fully intend to stick around as long as there is at least one theme that doesn’t actually hurt my eyes, hehe. Even if I don’t agree with the design, that’s fine. I just can’t deal with pain in my eyes since I am on a computer 18 hours a day for my work.
Considering you’re not a designer, you did a good job. The fact that the design is modular == great. I’m sure you’ll eventually come up with something that will work for everybody (at least, almost everybody.)
I can sympathize with being upset with posts that were insulting/aggressively attacking your work. That would irritate the poo out of me as well. Oh well, I have thick skin, don’t worry about unloading the frustration on me. There’s other people around here who would have gone nuclear radioactive and you’d have had one heck of a party on your hands. :p It’s all good, mistakes happen – I’m sure I’ve made far more than you in my short little life! When it comes to making mistakes, my philosophy is quantity not quality. I’ve yet to make any seriously royal fudge-ups, but I’m in the running for a Guiness record entry for quantity. Truce it is, then.
PS – I’m not a designer either, that’s partially why it’s hard for me to convey my issues to you. If you wanna make your SQL and code available, however, I’d have no problem giving you a detailed report, with clarity beyond what you could possibly EVER want. :p
Edited 2007-03-22 21:01
I too have this problem with the new site in firefox and epiphany. I suppose this is caused by using an inverted gtk theme (dark background/light foreground).
Here is a screenshot: http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=osnews4nd3.png
Unlike other individuals, I am happy to give you specifics:
* The bright white everywhere is overwhelming. Use an off-white if possible.
* I really think it was far easier to discern news items from each other in the old layout where you had “boxes” around the news items.
* I really miss the left sidebar.
* I really miss the old logo.
Other than that, I like the new version.
If it goes live in this current form with no way for me to continue using v3, I will be leaving this site.
I’m sorry to say, but I have to agree.
New look is interesting, but I feel like something lost. Can not tell what is it exactly. May be nice flat boxes, may be careful text color or weight selection. Old osnews was balanced, original, do not stress eyes but same time have good contrast in main text areas.
And i just hate avatars and PM. Avatars are for kids, but now computers are most complex devices in all history, but people who like to contest “I find c0o1 flashing vibrant picture (distracting, impact, schocking), you loose” are even more turned from real information ( that in plane text) to that useless feature.
PM is different story. It force people not to discuss in public but ask personally. Then it will be not a forum but free mail -like service. Use mail then.
Edited 2007-03-22 18:57 UTC
There are four things that immediately stood out to me about the new version that I do not like (a lot!):
* The logo (the old one was much better IMO)
* The floating news articles on the main page (I really liked the border and divider area around news articles the old version had, at the very least there needs to be a solid box around article titles)
* The right-handed navigation (I really liked the old OSNews left sidebar, I’m left-handed
)
* The colors are too bright! Having so much white everywhere makes it hard to read the text. I like the old site’s usage of a solid neutral color for the main background, and the use of white only for readable areas where the news articles were.
Awesome work!
There are a few enhancements I would like to see:
– hyperlinks (http/https ONLY) in the profile description.
– bold and italics in the profile description.
– The ability to set default “Headlines” where it defaults to staff blog. I prefer to always see gnomefiles newly added software and then check the staff blog only occasionally.
– The ability to “Ignore” selected user and never see comments from them
Looks good so far
Edited 2007-03-22 19:00
Kinda unfair unless something is added to inform the person being ignored, that he/she is being ignored by so and so.
That would balance it out.
No technical reason why not. I guess we’ll have to add rel=”nofollow” tho.
Ok. [EDIT]: Actually, it already does support UBB bold, italic, and underline. I have NOT backported this to v3 though.
We can do this after we go live and have a spare field in the db.
Discussed and voted down. Sorry.
Edited 2007-03-22 23:03 UTC
May I ask why the ability to ignore users won’t be implemented?
There are users such as the former NotParker who do nothing but troll. It would be really nice to just block them and perhaps they see some little icon knowing that I block their comments from being displayed.
This is the only feature that really sucks of OSNews and this is my favorite tech site. It kills me.
Thanks for the reply.
I don’t think blocking someone has a good effect. A new comer might also see his/her rant’s. perhaps we should add a block quota or something, so their – I shall call it spam – might be marked(ex:blue backround gradient) for all to see AND for those who blocked him/her the post could be folded?
And the semi-block could be lifted it their comment score goes above 2, so you might still see it if it’s worth something(to others) to you.
I have just added this feature for OSNews subscribers. It’s one of many that I will be adding for subscribers. Users you ignore have collaposed comments at all times, bordered in red, but you can drop them inline at will. Subscribers can currently do this from any user profile.
It does NOT notify users that they have been ignored.
I’ve been a longtime osnews reader and only registered since you started requiring it to comment.
You are about to gain +1 subscriber for implementing this feature.
Thanks Adam
Pros:
– Mice comments layout/design
– AJAX used in a reasonable manner (e.g. when previewing the comment — Nice!)
– PMs
– More RSS options
– The avatars (just uploaded one, it works!
)
Cons:
– The design is… well, in general… it sucks. It’s my private opinion of course. The colors, the fonts, well it just does cannot compare with other recently redesigned webpages like Digg or Slashdot.
– Lots pf wasted space, e.g on the top, next to the logo
– The right column is a complete mistake, it looks like it nobody took the time to actually design it.
– The general usability — it leaves an impression of randomless: the ads and the features look the same confusing readers (perhaps it’s on purpose…)
– The “Submit news!” button — first it doesn’t look like a button, second – it looks awful. Serious redesign is needed here
OK, enough for now. When I have more ideas I will submit them as well. Hope they were helpful.
1. Your Account -> Comments displays an error:
Warning: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() in /home/osnews/www4/includes/user-comments.inc.php on line 49
2. My color theme is gone
3. Main logo is cool
4. Logo in URL bar is missing
http://www4.osnews.com/?spit=theme-v3
This is a VER VERY QUICK MOCKUP. If anyone dares say the theme sucks, I’m going to personally come to their house and punch them. It’s just to prove that with no more than 15 minutes of work, we can change the theme.
http://www4.osnews.com/?spit=theme-leftalign
Same idea.
Everyone here is focused on text and colors, which is totally the WRONG thing to focus on, since they are trivial to change with style. The idea is the USABILITY.
Edited 2007-03-22 19:08 UTC
Text and colors are not the wrong thing to focus on in usability testing. They have a GREAT impact on usability. The web is used to share information, if you can not find and read information easily, than a website is not very usable. I understand that using CSS you can change the style rapidly, but if no one makes you aware that the style is no good, then it won’t matter how fast it can be changed because it won’t get changed.
Please do not take criticism of the new design personally. For the most part no one has been malicious and the criticism has been constructive.
By the way, the design you posted at http://www4.osnews.com/?spit=theme-v3 http://www4.osnews.com/?spit=theme-v3 looks a lot better!
I won’t comment on the second mockup you posted since you will apparently come to my house and punch me; and I think that’s a bit rude.
I won’t comment on the second mockup you posted since you will apparently come to my house and punch me; and I think that’s a bit rude.
Oh jeez… learn to take a joke. The point is that this crowd is extremely critical and the idea of the beta was the test the features, not the look and feel. I *do* take it personally when people say “I hate it” instead of “I don’t like the background.” It’s the difference between an intelligent conversation and not.
We have a fantastic group of readers, but, within that group, there’s always a few stray jerks who leave mean comments that do not motivate me to accomodate them.
From Adam:
Oh jeez… learn to take a joke. The point is that this crowd is extremely critical and the idea of the beta was the test the features, not the look and feel. I *do* take it personally when people say “I hate it” instead of “I don’t like the background.” It’s the difference between an intelligent conversation and not.
From the original news story:
We’re very excited to hear your thoughts on OSNews v4. We’ve had several users testing it and providing feedback, and thus far, the response is overwhelmingly positive. Please use the comments in this thread to discuss OSNews 4, not the Conversations section (although you can use that too, but let’s keep the discussion in one place). Feel free to test Private Messaging with me, as my account will automatically reply to you.
Nowhere in there does it say “test only features”, it says you want to hear our thoughts. You’re hearing them. The crowd isn’t “extremely critical”, we are responding openly and honestly to you. Nobody (well, at least not myself and some of the other responses I’ve seen) is being personally insulting/attacking you. I’m sure there’s a few, but your comment is a bit out of line.
We have a fantastic group of readers, but, within that group, there’s always a few stray jerks who leave mean comments that do not motivate me to accomodate them.
I believe a few posts up you chastised me for telling you that I would have to leave the site if it was kept in current v4 form due to it hurting my eyes. Now it sounds like you are the one pulling the “my way or highway” act. You cannot have it both ways.
That said, I like you for the most part, and none of my posts have been intended to personally attack you/your work. It seems you have added a lot of great new features and so forth. I did not comment on them because I felt they were good as-is. If your interpretation of my posts was based on the fact I did not stroke your ego, then here you go: I found the new features to be a very nice addition and well thought-out, for the most part.
Now, if you would still like constructive feedback, I will be happy to continue to dispense it.
Edited 2007-03-22 19:31
No need for ego stroke. Just clarity and civility.
That theme sucks! Come punch me, big guy.
In all seriousness, it’s nice that you made it simple to theme the colors/text. I’m hoping layout is just as easily modified. Moving the “junk” to the left is better, but still not good. It’s too cluttered, and takes up too much space vs. the actual content.
The ads look out of place, they still fit with the v3 version of the site. I think it’s the header blocks being there, when the rest of v4 doesn’t have them (except in comments.) I think if you added some kind of header blocks back into the main news page it would help a lot, by breaking up the stories.
Also, your first mock-up – the colors don’t work well together. Try another couple mock-ups with different color schemes until you find something easy on the eyes. Don’t dismiss the importance of font/colors, that’s often the *hardest* thing to get right in site design.
The last mock-up is an improvement over that slime greenish gradient BG, though, absolutely.
Keep trying, you’re getting closer to something more usable.
Edited 2007-03-22 19:24
I’m open to all friendly suggestion. I will definitely end up fleshing out alternative themes.
The colors are not the problem. Probably the Photoshop mockup looked great, but something was lost along the way in terms of usability.
There are a few things that you should take into account:
– separate the stories somehow in a more visible way
– do something about the right column – make the different sections stick out
– get rid of the SUBMIT STORY button – or make it look good somehow
– separate the comments somehow – for example, you could make their background of a slightly different color, or put a border around them, or both
– add a link to your profile in the top menu bar – OSNews is a site that is built around a community. The layout doesn’t show that. For example – you could use the space wasted by the submit news button to do a very nice box with options about your profile.
If I were you, I’d take the V3 layout and bring it to 2007 (in terms of aesthetics). People are used to it, and like it. Just refresh your identity, don’t change it completely.
Edited 2007-03-22 19:35
My address is:
1600 Pennsylvania Ave. NW
Washington, DC, USA
Yours Truly,
GW
Hey, #2 with the green color of #1 is looking much, MUCH better to me.
And like someone else said, maybe a little more separation between the stories.
Wow. That’s *amazingly* more readable to my eyes. The bright white everywhere kinda hurt to read. Offer that layout with a left sidebar and I can live with the new version. I still miss the old boxes around the news items the old version had
I like that a lot better, thank you. Boxes make a huge difference.
I find the site to be very aesthetically pleasing. It reminds me of a newspaper. The previous site certainly was better on limited hardware and small devices, but I do find the new site easy to navigate and pleasing to the eye.
However, I have been known to wear polyester pants, striped shirts and sombreros!
My Messages works but the navigation above it is inconsistent. It would be nice if the tabs just stayed there.
I find the general look of the sight to be pleasing to the eye. It reminds of a colorful newspaper. I like the icons, and I find it easy to visually separate content from “decoration”.
However, I have been known to wear polyester pants with a striped shirt and a sombrero, so my opinion may be suspect.
P.s., I had to go to the V3 site to post this. Posting anything on the V4 site has become near impossible to me, it seems to never make it to the page to do the actual post. Things may be a bit overloaded.
[EDIT: I now see that my previous attempt to post did make it, but I was never taken to the page after posting, my browser just kept spinning. Sorry!]
Edited 2007-03-22 19:31
Don’t like the home page.
Nicer gradient green, and that’s all.
Better the old menu on the left.
Better the old boxed abstracts.
Don’t like the hanging icon, much better on the title as in the old one.
Too much unused space on the right.
No clear separation betweeb articles.
Mostly agree with all of the above, plus :
comment ratings now jump all over the place instead of being on the same place horizontally. This makes it more difficult to scan the comment scores.
Love all the new features though !
Edit: and higher scores are no longer highlighted. Did I mention I LOVE the new features ? 🙂
Edited 2007-03-23 01:54 UTC
Edited… error already mentioned.
Edited 2007-03-22 20:18 UTC
it would look a lot better without the ads
Adblock and Firefox
“Ads? There are ads on the page? I didn’t know they had ads on the page.”
.
Edited 2007-03-22 22:31 UTC
If you’re running Konqueror (at least the default Kubuntu install), you wouldn’t even notice that there was an ad blocker in the first place. After a few weeks on pure KDE, I went to a Windows box, pulled up Opera, and ads just popped up everywhere where I had completely forgotten they existed in the first place
Note to Firefox dev team: built-in ad blocker
I am using a Firefox nightly, and the side panel is actually appended to the bottom of the page. Is anyone else seeing this?
I think the “inline” ads in the comments should be a bit separated (those that appear every 5 comments). They look like part of the comment above them. A horizontal line or similar would do the job.
The background is not actually white as it should be, rather it is the default background color for the browser. If that color is not white the gradient ends very abruptly. The site would look better with a defined background color.
Thanks
ps I prefer the old box-color theme as well but I appreciate the new features.
There is a background color: #fff, which is white.
Do you have your browser set to override that?
Some random questions, some about the new design, some that apply to both the old and the new:
– Why is Comment Title required at all?
– Why did the mod buttons switch places? I really prefer the [-][+] ordering of the old site (which is more usual anyway, look at your tv volume indicator on the screen, or the remote control buttons for instance)
– The color scheme definitely need a bit of work. Also, the site is overly bright right now.
– Some people complain about wasted space. I don’t. Why? Having a 2000px wide line of text is NOT comfortable to read, particularly since most comments will end up with a large gray heading bar (with the title, date posted, etc), one long line of text, and a line of buttons below (link, mod, etc). There is a reason why magazines use columns. Of course, columns in a forum doesn’t make sense, but limiting the maximum width is the best next thing. The ideal would be to define the width in terms of “em” no “px”, so making the text larger would in fact make the text with grow too.
– The “Add Bold” and “Add Italic” buttons are mostly useless in their current form. They should allow selecting text and then clicking on them to add tags to the selected text, instead of asking me to type the text in a pop-up and then adding it at the end of my post. The code to implement this is not complicated, and it would make those buttons a lot more practical. I made this sample code that implements Bold and Italic, feel free to use it/modify it as needed:
http://rafb.net/p/YiwspU97.html
Works in Safari 2 and newer, Firefox (any version), Opera 9 (and probably older versions too), Internet Explorer 6 (probably all the way back to 5.0, and likely IE 7)
Because it was built that way. I know that’s silly, but all of the code uses it, and it makes for easier RSS, so we’ll keep it.
I didn’t even realize they did because I’ve been using the admin site for so long. I guess we could change this.
Clearly.
Right now, it’s limited to a max of 1024.
Awesome! I have yet to find a good js that does this. I’ve stolen it and implemented it already. Nice work, and thanks!
Honestly, I don’t like the new style one bit.
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it… the style is good as-is IMO.
Sporting the myspace tom logo and all.
awesome. good choice!
Looks good!
First ‘bad’ thing I noticed: “30 comment(s)”. Please make it clever enough to know when to put an ‘s’.
I know it’s a small thing. Hopefully it’s all that’s needed to make osnews perfect. 😉
Though you say not to fret, I’d like to go on record as stating atomic vomit is not the best colour to use for the site. Really, the current site looks fine, just lose the width contraints on the current site and you’re good.
after typing the password it would be nice if you could tab straight to the login button, as opposed to register.
I like the ‘all’ nested view.
(the) change is good, thanks.
1) URLs is not user friendly… it should be remember-able, but number make it harder to remember
http://www4.osnews.com/story/$cataloge/Help_Us_Beta_Test_OSNews_Ver…
2) avatar on comments should be attached to title comment’s title, and please remove unnecessary information aka I-don’t-care-since-when-he-became-a-member
3) is this wannabe /. thing?
4) hover mouse over bookmark and + – score doesn’t suggest its clickable
5) replace “(bold|italic) selected text) with bold B and italic I
hum! what else!?
What about this site is wannabe Slashdot? It’s irritating that every feature is either a wannabe Slashdot or wannabe digg.
NONE of the major features rolled out today are present in /. or Digg. Conversations, Avatars, Private Messages, quoting replies – neither of those sites do that. So let’s dispense with this line of nonsnse, shall we?
Apologies if I sound like an asshole, but Slashdot’s discussion2 (out for a few months now) does indeed have reply quoting.
You may now return to your regularly scheduled thread.
perhaps this might be a useful idea (since V3 has it):
adding a ‘read more about’ feature at the end of let’s say an editorial. maybe an editorial about amiga, then right below the story we’d find a list with suggestions for related readings (plus topics related to some other tags/keywords aside amiga within the editorial)
but hey, great job so far with V4. always nice to know that OSNews keeps evolving and growing. sign of prosper.
good luck!
Edited 2007-03-23 00:34
It needs WAY more spacing on the news atcle listing between the
Title
Who wrote it
The news content
.. and the icons.
Maybe set the line-height: CSS attribute to space these out a little more, because everything seems to be clumped too close together.
Look at http://digg.com/ to see how they make it look better.
Also, I think you need more next page buttons.
For this article it goes 1,2,3,4… 10
I think you probably need to show at least 8 buttons.
Maybe there needs to be a profile setting for users account to allow you to set if you want ‘widescreen’ (non PDA) mode?
It doesn’t work very well on konqueror 3.5.5 since the CSS of the right bar doesn’t float right (this div should be rendered w/ top priority), it comes in the end of the page on my small size konqueror window. Also – on konqueror 3.5.5 – the ad banner overlaps the new logo some times. The logo can be improved if you clarify the OS part; the S is easy to get but not the O, thus seems like S News and not OS News, to a “stranger”. Yes it looks more modern; but the old logo was more charismatic.
I personally prefer the old site design (one of the best, IMO), specially the all in a box for each of the several comments. A wider comment’s area is also preferable (but not more than the old 610 pixels) instead of the 470 pixels of the new version (judging from my K-Ruler).
The old colors were better. The new yellowish background makes for more eye strain. (BTW the new background color doesn’t appear in konqueror; only the repeated top gradient – my default konqueror background color is peach)
Can you leave the old version on the air ?
It looks less news-board site like.
(Posted fron konqueror 3.5.5 – KDE 3.5.5)
Edited 2007-03-23 02:04 UTC
It would be nice if the controls to the right could be moved to their original position on the left, or at least make it user configurable.
Having it on the right side, increases the amount of mousing around the users need to do, as most windowing systems have the horizontal scroll bar to the right and most of the things users interact with on the posts are closer to the right than to the left.
Another thing, the box around the controls on the old site made much easier to separate them from the contents.
Other than that I like the new features, and the colors but please keep the old layout.
feel bad that you had to append that update. i would have thought that both of those would have been assumed by osnews readers. osnews has always proved to be alt friendly, and guis .. well they come and they go .. and they always look bad in beta..
anyways … i like v4 .. good stuff. even under net+ hehe
I’m not good with change. I still use the BeOS.
Looks cool so far.
I guess we all just have personal preferences. I don’t like the new site at all. It has zero personality and looks like a conservative IT site (whatever that means). I love the current site. I’ve never had any problems with it, and it loads very quickly for me (on OS X, Ubuntu, Windows, and Zeta). Please reconsider the new layout, or at least offer the old layout as an option.
Just want to say i like how it now resizes to my screen instead of being fixed width.
Also just wondering if theres a way to turn user avatars off from comments? ;o)
Edited 2007-03-23 06:46
Personally I don’t like it. The web site running now is clean cut whereas the new one….just doesn’t feel right.
I think the bright green/yellow heading at the top is kind of distracting.
The dark green font is hard to read…again that’s just me.
On the right side…I can’t easily tell the difference between advertisements or links that I can use (To access comments, profile, etc)
The layout of the articles have a “diggish” look on the front page…I’m going to stop bitching now…
I guess not everyone will love the new look but I for one do. As for the new AJAX-ed features: there very nice too. Keep yo the great work!
*throws up*
I don’t like the news on the left of the screen, it should be on the right and all features should be on the left. Not that it really matters but it feels much better. Rest looks cool to me.
…we definitely need more boxes in there, like with the old layout. They make it easy to skim the site and separate content, title, author and so on from each other.
And do away with the white background. It hurts my eyes. The gradient is cool, though. Maybe a pastel green background may do it.
And, of course, the sidebar has to be on the left.
I love the current look of OSNews. Everything is clean, centered, and professional looking. I realize that you have all worked hard on the new site but to me it looks awful. Everything runs from one edge of the screen to the other, solid white background, huge logos, etc. It looks more like a web site from the mid 90’s in my opinion. I also hate text ads, you just end up with a page full of text and it’s hard to pick out the content from the ads. Finally, the current design has personality. I can look at it from a mile away and know that it’s OSNews. The new design just looks so generic. I hope you’ll reconsider, or give everyone the option to continue using the old layout.
It looks nice, but I prefer the original site, it was simple and straight to the point. There just seems to be too much on the page, that it is a little overwhelming, but then again it is probably because I am so used to the old site.
How will the site look for subscribers?, i.e. Will you still remove all the slow loading adverts.
Yes, there are no ads at all in the subscriber version.
I really like it
It’s clean and modern design, but I’m probably quite conservative so I really don’t like it.
Especially the avatars in discussion and the abandoning nice green and silver colours of old design are the worst decisions.
I only hope it will be possible to choose color palette, switch off avatars OR stay using old design.
You can already switch off avatars in your preferences.
I miss the “view all 180 comments in a single page” link.
I think the mod up and mod down links were clearer when they were either side of a comment’s score (also the 2 buttons’ vertical alignment looks a bit off in Firefox v2.0.0.3/Win2k)
Other than that it’s a great new design. Well done to all concerned!
Um… do you realize it’s not only still there, but it’s also an option in your preferences?
I do now ;o)
Cheers!
Ah. Missed that one ;o)
Cheers
Its a lot more spread out, so its harder to quickly scan through the material and pick what you want. Whether its number of threads on a page, or number of comments in a thread on a page. Could perhaps be helped by using smaller font in the headers and smaller avatars. Yes, its a more lively and graphical display, but I find the sense of a rather small window into a rather big document a bit claustrophobic. The current display is a bit dull visually, but it packs a lot into a small area.
I’ve come round to the new layout, thanks to Firefox and some page editing extensions
http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/1781/osnewsv4au7.png
🙂
Please make adsense pub centered with news column.. it’s on the left.. and give it some more space.. like one in the top and another in the bottom.
Cluttered, busy, distracting, stupid fscked up avatars and icons for users on every message, looks like some 10 year old kid’s crappy blog.
Far, far less enjoyable to read and much rougher on the eyes than the grey/green site. Totally loathe it.
*READ THE COMMENTS BEFORE POSTING*
Go to your preferences and shut them off. There, fixed. Happy?
As a web designer, let’s see what we have for comments.
First off, it’s not valid XHTML 1.0 strict… despite your using that doctype.
The following properties are NOT valid XHTML
target
align
language
name
border
and it looks like you failed to close at LEAST five tags properly.
It LOOKS like you are resorting to a number of browser specific hacks you shouldn’t be needing to go anywhere near (like the stuff that’s IE7 specific) given the simplicity of the layout… you’ve restricted yourself to ‘crappy little stripe’ again, just this time a BIGGER crappy stripe (that’s a ‘fixed width design’ complaint)… You should probably be stating a XMLS statement on your HTML tag, and most certainly should be including a character encoding meta… and you are using non-semantic markup with tons of classed div’s instead of using meaninful tags like H1, H2, UL, OL, LI, etc meaning you aren’t giving search engines OR non-css users any real clues as to what’s what.
Oh, and the text in the sidebar is too damned small on ‘large font’ machines, likely from using too small a px sized font instead of %/em or pt.
You folks want, I could work up a VALID template for you to work from that would be more SEO, Semantic and use a LOT less code overall.
Of course, I’d also make no guarantees as to IE 5.x support, but you did that yourselves the moment you used a XHTML 1.0 strict header.
Edited 2007-03-23 14:08
i think the design looks very good, but there are some thing that have to be fixed. i thing the main thing are news items listed on the first page.. needs little more space around the news text.
but anyway, great design! keep up the good work.