When it comes to using computers, it used to be (and still rings true today) that most people find the Mac platform to be either loathsome or lovable with few spectators taking middle ground on the issue. It has been said that it takes, shall we say, a ‘different breed’ of person to fork out the extra cash for a Mac (even at the expense of slower hardware!) Defining this ‘different breed’ is usually the cause of much debate.
I happened upon a poll on slashdot.com where, by no scientific means, they are asking whether the slashdot-faithful would consider a Mac purchase. Of the five [non-comedic] options ranging from “Not in a million years” to “Already gave in“, a surprizing 33% chose “Very Tempting”. Considering that 16% “Already gave in”, that leaves me to conclude that 49% (ostensibly half) have a favorable attitude towards the Mac.
Could it really be true that the ‘different breed’, once defined by only “creative types and yuppies”, is now more loosly defined (half anyway) by the likes of you and I (this following the assumption that many an osnews.com reading is also a slashdot.com reader).
All in all, this poll doesn’t really jive with the current marketshare numbers where Apple can only claim 4% (give or take), so I wouldn’t reference the poll as an authoritative source or use it to support a claim, but it does raise an eyebrow here and there, at least amongst the ‘different breed’ of people that read osnews.com.
Just something to muse upon…
Apple is appealing. I suspect some of the scorn for mac is fueled by people that are tempted by the computers and rejected by the prices.
Apple could easily have 15-25% of the consumer market but that will never happen when you price yourself outside of the consumers sweet spot.
If I could afoard to go out and buy a mac I would have done it already, but fact is I can build me a nice system for under $500 in the PC world. But whenever I walk into CompUSA I spend a good amount of time looking at the mac’s and dreaming.
From the Slashdot Poll Page: “This whole thing is wildly inaccurate. Rounding errors, ballot stuffers, dynamic IPs, firewalls. If you’re using these numbers to do anything important, you’re insane.”
I chose “Very Tempting.” However, it’s the price and the fact that certain apps I use require Windows that keep me from switching. Using VirtualPC to use the apps I need just reinforce the price issue.
So, he’s what I did to get the OS X experience under XP:
Objectbar from Stardock Systems gives you an Apple-like menu where all app’s menus are at the top.
Windowblinds from Stardock Systems lets you change the look of your window borders.
WorkShelf from Winstep.net gives you a dock that’s more functional than the OS X Dock.
Oh boy…here we go again 🙂
I bought into the mac back in 2000 when OS X PB hit the street. Love the OS, even like the cute Cube on my desk. Now i need to get a second computer for my house. I could either:
1. Get a new iMac or TiBook
2. Get a PC
I really can’t justify the price of a whole new Mac right now until there is a substantial performance enhancement over my cube. Therefore, i’m doing what anonymous claims is possible (and it is). I’m building a PC to add to my Mac network. Estimated out of pocket expense is less than $500. I’m not swearing off mac, just holding my dough until G5 or Power4 hits the streets.
i was on all kinds of os’s… windows, os/2, linux, beos back to windows. last december i just bought an 1800$ ibook. two weeks after that i kicked out my brand new 1500 mhz athlon windows xp machine and added a g4 imac instead.
apple isn’t always gold and yes, it’s expensive. but: it works. i like to have one machine that just runs and that’s my apple.
i love it!
As soon as Mac OSX came out it got my attention (prior versions were of no real interest to me). With the release of 10.2 I just couldn’t wait anymore. This Monday my new Mac arrived. So far I’m loving it…worth every penny
Just to give you an idea as to the “breed” I am, I’m a computer programmer and for the last five years I’ve been professionally programming in unix environments. It’s the marriage of unix with a slick and classy gui environment on hardware that “just works” that got me to replace my PC with the Mac as my primary computer (so far…it’s only been a week, but it’s looking really, really good for the Mac
i am going to be going to college in the next few years, and if i have my choice of laptop, i would gladly take an ibook or tibook along.
Here are my opions on what I like and dont like
pro:
Unix based
Limited hardware so more likely to be supported under Linux
Vector graphics
Current DRM stance (not bothering with suppor for it)
For the most part clean, slick interface
Con:
Price (Initial plus what theyve been doing recently with .MAC and Jaguar)
Certain Interface aspects
Anti-tweaking stance
Slow
The cons are too havy for me right now. Ill look again when the IBM desktop power4’s are used and see if its imrpovwed enough in their favor.
I do know one thing, I never want to have to use a version of windows with Palladium
Most say what stops people from getting a mnac is the price. I say that is correct to a great amount but not the only big reason. For me I do not have the funds to buy one now. But in a bit over a year it will not be the same case. I will be able to buy one without thinking much of it. But for many it’s the “mac experiance” that people do not like. The OS is very differant and for many like myself there are to many things I don’t like. There are things I like to. Some say it’s a matter of getting used to it, but to that I say no, they have don’t things the way I like. These are things that make macs macs, there not going to change. Many people just don’t seam to get that the way apple does some things is not the best way. They just want to put it under “your dumb” or “your just not used to it, do to using windows” but the simple matter is many people are like me. They have the money but don’t like the way things work. There is more to not buying a mac then, “their expensive” or “they’re closed” people don’t like the interface, people don’t like loosing speed, people don’t like the styling, people don’t like joining a religion. To look at it from a soley price perspective like many do is silly. Apple may get my money some day. With a new CPU and some changes that probly will happen in time they might be there for me. But then it will come down to still having a big reason for switching, and there simple isn’t any currently. Also there is no way I would buy one while the images of the switch commerials are in my head, they make me want to see apple colapse in there arrogant idiotic distortion field.
anyways, no one should ever try to interpolate data from a slashdot pole, no matter how you look at it.
After seeing OSX at my local CompUSA I decided I have to have it. I started swapped an old Dual 233 SCSI Workstation with a friend of mine and got an old 7300/180 with a 400Mhz CPU upgrade card w/ 384MB, 8GB Hard Drive. Now by the grace of god and lots of luck I will be installing OSX 10.1 tonight when I get home. I know it will be slow but it will have to do until I can afford a G4 with a SuperDrive.
Link for installing Mac OSX on older Macs.
http://eshop.macsales.com/OSXCenter/XPostFacto/
Total cost Workstation box ran me $100, OSX.1 $25 both on e-bay. Thankfully my friend lost interest in the mac.
the inreased geek appeal is due to the new OS IMO
im actually interested in a mac running osx, no way in hades i would own any mac running os 9 and below (modern operating system my arse)
Bought an eMac 2 weekend ago. (FreeBSD, Linux, Windows2000, Win95, Win98, Commodore 64:) and now my First Mac EVER .) Cost was a factor, so I got the low end one right now.
I love it. I have never seen a better design OS or hardware. I remember in college seeing a NeXT cube for the first time. God, that was a sexy machine. I think Apple has done a 180 and nothing but a brighter side now. Nice machines.
wow, “it just works,” Now I’m Sold. you might as well signup for one of those irritating commercials as well.
how’s those six games going?
Troll somewhere else. The Mac gets the best games from the PC world, then some: Quake, Unreal, The Sims. The list goes on. Want to play online? Lineage rocks and EverQuest is soon to follow.
macs were the first computers i came in contact with.
went on to the wintel world.
now i’m very close to being mostly extricated from wintel, and my systems of choice are amd/redhat, amd/freebsd.
i do like macs, would not mind dual booting os x/os 9 or dual booting yellowdog/os 9.
i just don’t have the money for it.
It’s not the “mac experience”. It’s not directly the price either. Then, “what is it?” you ask.
It’s jumping out of the frying pan into the fire. It’s trading one proprietary nightmare for another. It’s getting too tied down to one source for hardware.
I didn’t take the poll (didn’t see it). But, add me to the list that wants OSX so bad they can taste it. But, I’m stubborn. And, either Jobs is going to move to Intel hardware or I’m not going to run OSX. Many people say that Apple is in the hardware business and that porting to i386 would be the end of Apple. I disagree with that, too. I think Apple could get into the software business and continue to sell hardware at a lower margin. Overall, I think their bottom line would improve.
Darren
From Slashdot regarding polls:
“This whole thing is wildly inaccurate. Rounding errors, ballot stuffers, dynamic IPs, firewalls. If you’re using these numbers to do anything important, you’re insane.”
not much wrong with macs, i wouldnt mind one, if someone wants to give me one, and of course it would have to be a linux box, none of that OSX nonsense
My current PC is an AMD 1800+, geforce2 and a 19inch monitor.
It does everything I really need. Nowadays, I find that I browsing the web less and do less on my PC because i’ve been everywhere, used everything. Nothing really supprises me or worth the effort unless its earning me money or making my life easier.
So, there is no reason I can see, baring Doom3 being such an amazingly addictive game (which i doubt; War3 was good, but now i’m over that) that i’ll be upgrading my wintel machine. Windows 2000 was MS’s best operating system, and they’re effectively killing it off to a subscription model.
They realise that they’re at a position in which they can produce an OS that could stand for 10 years… and no sales.
So… All I need now is a laptop… When I think laptop, I want ease of use and effectively, a macosx tibook. Regrettably, that’ll be a year or two before I recon I’ll need one enough. (I’m thinking jetski first).
Hardware and software cycles will have progressed further.
Its my opinion that while everyone considers Jaguar to be the mature Macosx, I think the next 2 years will be the most impressive years to come.
Jaguar marks the end of the OS’s early stage and technology is aligning to my purchasing preferences.
-Tim
I like the Mac. But I don’t own one (well I own two, but they’re old – IICX, Performa 6220 so they don’t count) and even though I’d have no problem with moving to Mac, here’s why I don’t.
I have *way* too much money invested in software for my current Windows system. Most of it is also available on mac – the entire Adobe Design Collection (Photoshop, Illustrator, Acrobat, Indesign), Premiere, Macromedia Director, Strata 3D, Hash Animation Master. Some of it not available, but equivalents are: Homesite, Vegas Video, Acid Pro, Sound Forge.
So while I think it would be fun to work on a system with a nice UI strapped on top of a sturdy BSD … it’s just not going to happen for me. The cost of cross-grading my licenses is way too much. It’s not the cost of the hardware – that I don’t mind, as PC hardware from a quality vendor costs more too (though I’ve had pretty decent luck with cheap equipment). The cost of transferring my software investment would just be too much – especially since my system now basically ‘just works’ too.
If I was starting clean – I’d consider a Mac … but I just don’t see paying the cross-platform penalty when my existing system works fine. I realize that I’m different from a lot of people who don’t really have much software beyond a browser, email, and some games – but I’m one of those creative types that’s “supposed” to be a guaranteed sale for Apple.
Not that anyone cares … but just figured I’d share my ‘why I don’t switch’ story.
BTW … I don’t see why so many people give a crap what computer system other people run. If it does what they need it to do, good for them. Aside from the needing enough people to run your platform so that you get commercial development (unlike poor Be) – I don’t see why I would care if you run Windows, Mac, Linux, or SomeWankyOS. It’s a *machine* people – I also don’t really give a crap what TV or VCR you own … I do care that the industry has its act together to make sure they’re all interoperable. I think that’s what the real focus should be. Not in getting everyone on the same platform, but getting all the platforms to be able to work and share data relatively effectively.
splinky,
The interest isn’t so much in who’s running what, it’s the attitude change. If you posted a poll on Macintosh on SlashDot in times gone past, you would get an overwhelming “no way in hell” response and questions on how to give the platform negative ratings. It’s gone from that to about a third of SlashDot regulars giving the platform a look-in in the space of only a few years.
I used to be a PC-head like the rest of you. I built several boxes, and helped my father out with his PC business. Then I went to college and started using macs as part of my faculty/staff helpline job. Once OS X came out, I decided it was time for a change, and I bought a G4 tower. I now run a Powerbook business, and am completely PC-free. I sold all of my old hardware on eBay, and it almost payed for the G4. If you are looking at prices, go to http://www.baucomcomputers.com or http://www.macofalltrades.com and pick up a G4 tower for 700-800 bucks. You can’t beat it.
I’ll probably buy a nice Mac when (a) my PC finally bites the bullet (and it’s getting close, I can tell ;^)), and (b) Mac hardware performance has increased to the level where OS/X’s responsiveness is equal to that I’ve been enjoying under BeOS for the last few years (but with the nicer eye candy of course). I have to admit, the Macs are looking nicer all the time…
I just fell like in old days (Amiga user)
but it’s just a marketing gimmick.
I’m irked by what they did with Jaguar–i.e. charge existing OSX users for what is essentially a bugfix release. I’m angry that the ibook comes with a soft modem and the driver is not available. As soon as Yellowdog comes up with a working driver, I think our house will be 100% Linux again. Linux has way more Free/free software. Yes, I know about fink, but “Fink will not officially support Mac OS X 10.1 anymore, we are gearing all our efforts towards 10.2.” And it was not a good solution to begin with, because if you’re going to have to install X11 you may as well install Linux and get the whole ball of wax.
The ibook would be a nice little machine if not for Apple’s proprietary software.
I ABSOLUTELY HATE MACS SO GO FLAME ME!!!
Jaguar is certainly a heck of a lot more than a simple bugfix release… 10.1 was a mostly bugfix related release but Jaguar is beyond that, way beyond.
Brad: “With a new CPU and some changes that probly will happen in time they might be there for me. But then it will come down to still having a big reason for switching, and there simple isn’t any currently.”
There’s quite a few reasons to switch right now, the iApps, and more apps now getting fleshed out with beefed up mail, Sherlock, chat, address book, iCal. Also, the iPod with ITunes is unbelievable. Of course, switching does not make sense for everyone. Apple is not the right computer for everyone (the best is multiple computers, mac, os and windows for that matter).
Apple is just warming up. They are going to make us an awesome, integrated tool. Hardware, nice OS, all the basic apps you need (which work similarly and work together), and integrated online service. No more “construction kit” PC. The focus is COMPLETELY different than MS. They are making tools for developers. Not a tool for consumers. MS is expecting all these other people to make the stuff for consumers. I don’t think it’s going to work. We’ll see though, this is uncharted territory.
Brad; ” Also there is no way I would buy one while the images of the switch commerials are in my head, they make me want to see apple colapse in there arrogant idiotic distortion field. ”
Here lies the real problem most people have with Apple. The elitism factor. Well, apple has a problem. They cost more (necessarily – they have to cost more than Dell, goddamn it!!). There are compatibility issues, software availability issues. The only reason for Apple to exist is if they make a better computer (not better for everyone, but for a significant portion of consumers).
So Apple and Apple users have to say the mac is better. It IS better (for most ordinary non-computer expert people). We have to say it. Sorry. I would llke to find a way to say this without putting people down and driving people crazy. I’m open to ideas.
I bought an iBook because I needed a computer that could run professional aps ( Dreamweaver, Photoshop) but still mimic the server I was administrating ( Linux ). I was also wooed by the relatively long battery life, light weight, and beautiful look. The operating system won me over ( read: justfied the cost ).
OSX is great. However, my dream setup is gentoo linux with OSX loaded inside – but gentoo is still working out the bugs in their powerpc distro.
Still, it’s the best compromise out there, until adobe and macromedia wake up and release programs for linux. Even so, I love the interface. And you can move around inside the system – none of this “An error occured. The error was: an error occured” of Windows, or registry hacking that crashes your computer.
A mac would be my recommendation for anyone who needed standard business world apps, or was just starting out.
It’s better to sell ten computers at a profit than 100 at a loss. PC
companies have pared their profits to the bone and are finding it
extremely hard to survive the downturn.
I think Apple have calculated their prices with great care.
However, there is a major obstacle to buying a Mac, and that is the
shortage of pirate software. All the PC owners I know rely heavily on
“free” software.
Amiga owners tend to pay for the programs, but the prices are much
lower than those asked by the major PC software companies.
Darren,
I don’t why you disagree, I agree with what you say. It just wasn’t one of the things i mentioned.
>>here’s quite a few reasons to switch right now, the iApps, and more apps now getting fleshed out with beefed up mail, Sherlock, chat, address book, iCal. Also, the iPod with ITunes is unbelievable.<<
See these are reasons that do nothing for me and many people. I don’t have any need for iApps, they don’t interest me much. I don’t need a mail client since I use web mail, (i am all over the place, mail on once computer is bad for me, even if I was on the same computer all day i wouldn’t use a client). Sherlock doesn’t interest me, I can see why people like it and it’s place but it’s not something I think many would care about. Address book? Thats unique? and same for iCal. I have a sony clie, it goes ever where with me, much more useful than something stuck to my computer. Things like that just on your computer like the email to just arn’t useful, they have to travel with you. Be able to be used when one a friends computer and such. And the iPod isn’t even related to owning a mac (if they were free with every mac then this would be differant). and you can have one with a windows computer. I hope people arn’t switching just for an iPod. I’m not saying iApps arn’t nice. They seam very nice for what they do and many people use them. But for many people they don’t have use. Things like iOffice or iBrowser would appeal to more people. They are certainly not a reason to switch. There are alternitives in windows, MS can’t put such a package together or the DoJ and everyone else would have their ass. Look at what they have with MS Office, expand that into the apps iApps does and you can get an idea of what MS could do if they could get away with it. iApps give mac users nice pre packaged simple apps. I’m sure they had apps there before made by out side groups that have now been crush by apples following them. Was it watson they ripped off?
Things that cause a switch are things that you truely don’t have in Windows. iApps are not something you truely don’t have in windows. You may not have “Mac OSX iApps TM” for windows but you have things that do the same or dang near. It has to be some big feature(dinner with steve jobs), or incredible hardware (quad 4ghz power4), or huge interface improvement of some app that there is nothing similar to do it (like for example mac has no real CAD programs (AFAIK), so switching to a Windows, AIX, Solaris, Irix computer would be a good idea to get CAD if it was something you wanted). As of now there is no one real thing that would cause a switch. This is why the switch commercials claim you can’t do things in windows (even though you can) or that windows is hard and confusing (which its not) or it BSOD (which it hasn’t since 2k) or digital cameras don’t work (which they do) or using a wintel computer is lame for a pot smoking hippie (which may be true).
The numbers shows Slashdot users. A lot of them are anti-MS guys who are willing to use anything but that OS made by the evil evil company. They also refuse to use anything unstable. Now Macs are finding a new niche, it is UNIX (well, mostly), and like most UNIX boxes, it is overpriced, but unlike most UNIX boxes, it is easy to use.
Well, this is coming from the same community that once said a couple of years ago that Debian is the most viable Windows altenative for the desktop….
Ed page: Current DRM stance (not bothering with suppor for it)
It would be nice if MS took the same stance, but trust me, if you are a Mac user and holding off using a PC because of DRM – YOU ARE STUPID. 🙂 DRM only works when you watching/downloading/whatever DRM media. That’s means if you are downloading a ACC or a MP3 or a Ogg, DRM WON’T work. If you are downloading a WMA from a record company, DRM *might* work, only if the record company wants it to work.
Though it is quite sad an industry is being bullied by a much smaller industry, just because the smaller industry wants to keep its 1/2 decade old business model.
Ed page: I do know one thing, I never want to have to use a version of windows with Palladium
Nice stance, even though there is NO official proof behind the claims made about Palladium. From what I understand from it is that is it virtually impossible to crack copyright protection in music, video and software. Plus, for shareware, since you can’t turn back the computer clock, you only get to try their software for 15/30/60 days, not 3 years 😛
Ophidian: im actually interested in a mac running osx, no way in hades i would own any mac running os 9 and below (modern operating system my arse)
Funny, the ancient OS has a much better UI than the modern one. (Completely off topic, but I rather choose Mac OS 9 or spend days trying to fix up Aqua to make it *usable* 🙂
Chris: Troll somewhere else. The Mac gets the best games from the PC world, then some: Quake, Unreal, The Sims.
For many gamers, which BTW make out one of the major buying groups in the PC market (they manage to push AMD market share to 20%, without them getting good first-tier OEM support), the game numbers are small in comparison with PC’s (just have the most famous games – so what? so does Linux :-).
Plus, for many of them (my brothers included), they loath the hardware (and they we aren’t talking about the price yet!)
Darren: Overall, I think their bottom line would improve.
Besides loosing MS’s support, their bottom line would shrink. Tell me *one* OEM with a marketshare similar in size with Apple broke even.
The margins are low in the PC market. welcome to the commodity market. They are better off being softare-only or stick with their business model.
Jesse: If you are looking at prices, go to http://www.baucomcomputers.com or http://www.macofalltrades.com and pick up a G4 tower for 700-800 bucks. You can’t beat it.
The only machines I found that is within the price range as you said are machines that is 2-3 years old. Wow, if I buy a PC that old, it would be MUCH cheaper. So I’ll say, you can beat it.
Besides, considering from you comment, you left the PC world *years* ago. PCs back then was crap compared to Macs. They were much slower, hardly usable etc. It is *way* different now. So I wonder, you sell PowerBooks as a living? So you just use PowerBooks as a business machine.
appleforever: There’s quite a few reasons to switch right now, the iApps, and more apps now getting fleshed out with beefed up mail, Sherlock, chat, address book, iCal. Also, the iPod with ITunes is unbelievable.
Wow! I’m gonna buy a Mac now! (Come on, if this was the case, Sony would have owned the market before the iMac came out).
appleforever: MS is expecting all these other people to make the stuff for consumers. I don’t think it’s going to work.
Being the sole provider of consumer software is stupid. Why? iMovie might work for you, but it may not work for the guy down the street. Microsoft knows that, and in its history, it killed little ISVs.
But why exactly is this bad? You never actually explain to anyone here.
appleforever: I’m open to ideas.
And I’m open to antitrust laws.
People are switching because of the iApps. I know several people myself who have. The iApps do not exist on Windows — at the same level of quality and ease of use. I have looked. The stuff bundled with XP is inferior, as is the stuff added in with the Sony’s and the Dell’s. iPhoto, well, I don’t think there is anything like this on the PC side (it’s more an organization and sharing tool). If you would like to identify specific PC apps that match ITunes, iDVD, iPhoto and iMovie, I will look at those.
iCal has a number of unique features, including the ability to show multiple calendars (work, home, soccer team, etc) and you can display whichever ones you want at a given time. Also, there’s easy publishing of calendars, people can subsribe to them, and you can launch Applescripts from iCal too (to play an iTunes playlist at a give time, for example). The address book is system wide, so all apps can draw from it even when it’s not open.
Another thing – the iApps share similar interfaces (for example, you create “playlists” of music, photos, addresses, calendar events, etc.) This is nice.
The iPod rocks so hard. And it works best on the mac because Apple makes everything in the chain (iTunes, firewire interface). It just works perfectly, 100 percent. I have read of some minor glitches (as always with windows) on the PC
iPod.
iBrowser almost certainly is coming. iOffice probably, but Apple may wait a bit in order not to piss off MS too much.
In general, people on this board greatly underestimate the value of ease of use. For them, they know the steps, concepts in Windows and PCs very well. But it’s not like that for lots and lots of people. The iApps are a big reason to switch for them. Great intuitive apps for things they want to do, and they are included.
Computers are too hard and confusing. There’s no tech support for my TV and toaster, why should there be for my computer? It’s quite clear we are not there yet. Apple is trying to get us closer. That’s the reason (for many, not you) to switch. Maybe something else will be a reason for you (DRM, palladium?). Maybe not, so the PC would be best for you.
Rajan on me: “You never actually explain to anyone here. ”
I don’t think that’s fair. I often provide a lot of detail and explanation. NOBODY does it all the time.
wanted to say this on the poll but I don’t want to reg I would use macs if I was rich plain and simple. Even with the speed problems and stuff if I had the money I’d buy’em even though I have an old 9600 and got screwed by steve I’d still buy one. someone send me lots of moeny
I supose I can hope lol
I’d be happy to pay a 10-15% premium for a Mac. I can build a PC for less than 1/2 the price of an eMac with far better performance.
OSX is nice, the hardware is overpriced and obsolete despite looking good.
It all comes down to that: a simple matter of taste and convenience. There are advantages in both platforms, and you will buy either system depending on what type of work you do, how you do it, and finally, your taste in GUIs.
It’s true that at this point PCs are much cheaper and faster than Macs, but it’s also true that PCs have an OS with a GUI that is just boring, even with the new skins, while Macs have an OS that has a beautiful GUI.
I used Windows XP a lot (I even wrote a review for this site) and still use it, but I found a way to get the entry level new G4 tower, with dual 867 Mhz CPUs, and I couldn’t be happier with it. True, 867 Mhz is a number of two years ago in PCs, but Mac OS X takes full advantage of them, as well as of the Altivec instructions in it, and it shows. I do video editing, and rendering and encoding video works amazingly fast in this computer. But the best part is that I can do a lot of other things with the system while doing those intensive tasks, and the system is still totally responsive. PCs may have very fast processors these days, but I’ll keep this dual processor Mac to any single processor PC any time. Of course, they’re not comparable to Dual Processor Xeon PCs, but those cost a fortune, much more than the Mac towers.
Of course that for the casual user that only does internet and simple stuff, and of course for hard core gamers, Macs just aren’t useful. But for video editing on a budget, Macs present a good advantage, mostly Final Cut Pro, which is only available for Macs and it’s a professional video editing software for a thousand bucks, and there’s no such thing on the PC. On the PC, you either use Adobe Premiere, which is unstable and useless for complicated projects, or jump to spend thousands of dollars on AVID solutions. And even editors that usually work with AVID stations that cost several thousand dollars get impressed when they have the opportunity to work with Final Cut Pro. As a matter of fact, a mainstream movie that is still in shooting is being edited on Final Cut Pro workstations:
http://www.creativecow.net/forum/read_post.php?postid=1033757985119…
As for the overprice of Macs, yes, they are overpriced, but it’s logical when Apple only has 5% of the market. Dell can afford to sell their machines at ridiculously low prices, they sell millions and millions of PCs at those prices and still get a profit, but Apple can’t afford that. And the lack of processor speed is a misfortune that Apple has to suffer because of those idiots at Motorola. Apple has been putting Motorola CPUs in their machines for years, and suddenly Motorola gives its back to Apple and say we don’t give a damn about Apple anymore. What can Apple do? Turn to another CPU architecture of course, but that can’t happen overnight. It’s a long and complicated process. It will take years to accomplish.
Now, it may seem that I’m one of those Apple evangelists, but I actually think that most of Apple’s marketing tactics suck and are on par with Microsoft’s, in some cases even worse. Those switch ads are a piece of crap, that cute girl telling that she saved Xmas cause her father couldn’t connect the digital camera to his PC and she connected it to her Mac in a snap is just a load of crap. If the PC works OK connecting the camera and downloading the pictures is as easy as on any Mac, and if a Mac has problems like many of them do perhaps she wouldn’t be able to download those pictures to the Mac anyway. The point is that both the PC and the Mac can work without a hitch or be a mess depending on who’s the owner and how he or she maintains the OS.
Sebastian
appleforever: People are switching because of the iApps.
Yet even with this group of people, Apple’s market share and market influence is shrinking. Fast. Which only goes to prove one thing: MOST PC USERS DON’T CARE!
appleforever: If you would like to identify specific PC apps that match ITunes, iDVD, iPhoto and iMovie, I will look at those.
For iTunes, I would say WMP9. For iDVD, I would say MyDVD. For iPhoto, I can’t find any altenatives just as good (I mentioned this again and again), but MGI Photosuite is really good. iMovie – there’s a thousand, I dunno where to begin (I’ll begin once I use any of them, something I can’t without a camera)
appleforever: iCal has a number of unique features, including the ability to show multiple calendars […]
I was able to do this for a year already (I have three calendars, school, computer time, and yearly calendars – birthdays, dates to remember, etc.)
appleforever: The address book is system wide, so all apps can draw from it even when it’s not open.
Windows had an systemwide address book for a long time, only they don’t really show it in order to sell apps. Click Start > Program Files > Accessories > Address Book (it is part of the IE/OE bundle, BTW).
appleforever: I have read of some minor glitches (as always with windows) on the PC iPod.
…..from? (I don’t know anyone that has a iPod for PC, BTW). The only reason why iPod is better on the Mac than on the PC is that when you plug in your iPod in the FireWire port, iTunes load syncs with it automatically. That’s the big difference.
appleforever: iBrowser almost certainly is coming. iOffice probably, but Apple may wait a bit in order not to piss off MS too much.
The legendary iBrowser and iOffice. Heck, the iWalk sounded more logical than this. Apple had always been rumoured to release an browser of their own after killing Cyber Dog. (Plus, iBrowse is a trademark by a Amigan browser, iBrowser could cause trademark issues because it is one alphabeth different).
iOffice sounds even more absord. Absolutely no facts behind such a claim. heck, Apple doesn’t even understand the corporate market to at least compete with the Office in the market (heck, you don’t understand that market).
appleforever: There’s no tech support for my TV and toaster, why should there be for my computer?
You get tech support for your car – is it horridly hard to use? Toaster is a way different beast from computers. It is a simple machine, can be made from scratch even the components. No need for tech support.
TVs on the other hand DO give tech support. Maybe you never used it, in the same vain, I never used PC tech support, but have used TV tech support.
appleforever: I don’t think that’s fair. I often provide a lot of detail and explanation. NOBODY does it all the time.
What you said is that people buying a PC from a cheap shop with Windows don’t get iApps. Big deal. People buying from shops like that obviously aren’t interested in iApps.
Plus, thanks to the antitrust laws you so eagerly support, Microsoft can’t bundle stuff into their OS like Apple. Even if they made it uninstallable.
Dirk: I can build a PC for less than 1/2 the price of an eMac with far better performance.
I never agree with this analogy because no other major OEM can compete on price with buidling your own machine.
considering that most Slashdot readers are little Linux kids who “hate” Microsoft, I’m supried that amount isn’t higher considering how much better OS X than Linux.
appleforever: If you would like to identify specific PC apps that match ITunes, iDVD, iPhoto and iMovie, I will look at those.
Rajan: “For iTunes, I would say WMP9. For iDVD, I would say MyDVD. For iPhoto, I can’t find any altenatives just as good (I mentioned this again and again), but MGI Photosuite is really good. iMovie – there’s a thousand, I dunno where to begin (I’ll begin once I use any of them, something I can’t without a camera)”
First, you need to identify those iMovie equivalents. Last time I checked, all the reviews for the leading ones at CNET were remarkably negative. There were huge glitches. And no tech support. See http://www.cnet.com/software/0-3227896-1204-20151654.html?tag=prmo6 on the Pinnancle Studio. Just one quote for flavor: “Like so many other people have found, this product simply will not finish rendering a movie for burning onto a DVD. Technical support is non-existant and I have yet to get through to a support consultant (even though its a premium rate number). I’ve given up paying Pinnacle to play me background music and will return the product for a refund. How can you review a product that is simply so unstable as to be useless, other than say ‘save your money’.”
Here’s one quote on MGI Videowave: “”Virtually Worthless”
This product does about 40% of what it claims. It cannot burn DVD’s under any circumstances and cannot produce large clips or clips in uncompressed (DV) format. Website patches don’t work and just try to get support. This product is a fraud on consumers.”
73 percent of the reviews were negative. http://www.cnet.com/software/0-3227896-1204-6480003.html?tag=pdtl-l…
I pointed all this out to Rajan in a prior thread.
Here’s Cnet on MyDVD 4: “Unfortunately, the program’s limited tools and expensive tech support hamper its potential” There was only one user review, negative: “‘Terrible product’
The video interlacing isn’t properly preserved, so the output look jagged and noisey. It frequently crashes, as well. Stay away from this product.”
Here’s a recent article from JULIO OJEDA-ZAPATA of the Pioneer Press, comparing Sony’s new consumer DVD program to iDVD:
“But for all its virtues, Click to DVD can’t hold a candle to Apple’s iDVD, especially the recently released version 2.1 of the Mac program.
From the start, iDVD has given Mac-using amateur auteurs more control over DVD projects. They’ve been able to position and alter DVD menu titles and buttons almost at will, and to import their own still images and movies for use in menu backgrounds and buttons, to name just a few features.
Version 2.1 adds new features such the option to create hybrid discs (platters that double as movie DVDs and computer DVD-ROMs containing any kind of digital file) and to automate DVD production using the AppleScript language (scripts are available for AppleScript newbies). . .
The bottom line: iDVD remains the gold standard for consumer-grade DVD authoring.”
As for the jukebox stuff, I don’t think iTunes is THAT much better and the PC alternative are fine, even better in some respects. iTunes has been credited by many as the most intuitive. (but again the PC ones are not confusing or anything)
The main reason iTunes is better is because of the iPod. I don’t care what the negative apple haters say. The iPod with iTunes rocks so hard!!!!! You put a CD in your mac. It opens iTunes, you press one button to import, you plug in the iPod (NO software to install), and the CD comes over. That’s IT. The iPod for windows is great too, but Musicmatch is not as well integrated and it’s less intuitive. See this Tom’s Hardware article, which says this, http://www6.tomshardware.com/mobile/02q4/021003/ipod-10.html.
Rajan on an iPhoto alternative: “MGI Photosuite is really good.”
Here’s from CNET’s review on MGI Photosuite: ” Beginners will be totally baffled by PhotoSuite’s Prepare Photo window, which offers no clues as to how to use it, and many other simple processes are far more convoluted than necessary. For example, to crop a picture, instead of accessing a crop or clip tool, you must select Prepare • Activity Panel • Select • Crop. Sound convoluted? It is.”
Here’s some user reviews:
“”Unable to read files from CD” My experience is based on PhotoSuite 3 but according to MGIs cust rep the problem exists with 4 too. I can not open a file on a CD and the problem has been acknowledged by MGI; currently there is no fix. I plan on unloading mine and find some thing better.”
“”Avoid at all costs”Although I’m sure the advertised featured are worth the money, I could not get any of them to work. This product is tied tightly to Internet Explorer. In order for it to work you have to have the correct version of IE installed on your system. I kept on getting script errors throughout the product.”
“”Lousy Tech Support” Dark screens with no way to lighten same. Tech support is a misnomer. They use form letters and never get back to you. Onscreen Help is mediocre.”
By the way, I have never had to call apple for Tech support on any iApp. They all just worked flawlessly. That’s good, because tech support almost always sucks, especially on a product that costs $79 like a lot of these so-called iApp “equivalents”. The programs are seriously flawed (many of them at least) and no ISV can afford to provide good tech support for a cheap program very well.
Even apart from the technical superiority of individual iApps is something simply incredibly valuable to a lot of consumers: You walk into an Apple store, plunk down the $ and walk out of the store with working, great apps. No research required on what’s the best 3 party app. No buying one app and finding it’s one of those dog crap apps out there (which exist, that’s a fact). NO, ZERO, ZILCH possibility of having conflicts.
rajan:
Appleworks 6 came bundled with my Mac, I’m not not a big office user so I couldn’t really say how it compares feature for feature but it’s got a wordprocessor, spreadsheet, database, draw, paint, and presentation tool. Looks like the basics are there, and lot of really spiffy looking templates built in. I suppose this could be considered iOffice. It supports the microsoft document formats, although I can’t attest to how well.
For the people talking games:
I didn’t buy it for a game machine, I bought it for an easy to use unix box. My PS2, Gamecube, and Win98 box are for games
I bought a few games with the Mac (titles I missed on Windows, Alien Vs Predator, Giants: Citizen Kabuto, also picked up Warcraft III since it supported both out of the box), and if a game is coming out on the Mac I’ll likely not buy the Windows version and wait for the Mac one to come out (similarily I choose Gamecube or PS2 versions over PC versions of titles as well, they don’t require patches 
. There’s something to be said for programming for known hardware configurations when it comes to stability (Mac comes closer to this category than PC’s do, but the dedicated consoles are the prime examples of this). I also picked up a couple of the titles that are available only for Mac, and while simple, they are actually quite good (Cro-Mag rally, while looking a little dated now, sure is fun). All that being said I’m not removing my Windows partition from my PC’s anytime soon.
As for the “just works” comment I didn’t mean when compared to Windows, all IHV’s are supporting Windows, it more or less “just works” now as well…I was talking versus unix (well actually linux to be more specific…). Linux is a PITA to maintain, and if I get a new PC it’s a crap shoot wether a distro is going to properly support everything on it…Mac OSX is what I think the various opensource desktop enviroments are trying to be, but they’re not doing it very well IMHO…the power of unix with a simple easy to use GUI interface (and don’t forget application integration, something that they have the worst time with…KDE apps don’t work quite right with GNOME apps, which don’t work right with Motiff apps…they co-exist, but rarely co-operate).
This is all just my experience, and I’m not trying to put anyone down for their choices here either (if you like Windows…great! Use it, I won’t hold it against you…same goes with Linux). There is to date no “one true OS or computing platform” that I know of. They all have their strenghts and weaknesses and people make choices based on what is important to them.
I will agree with the poster that claimed that interopability is what we should be shooting for. Open standards that are not emcumbered by IP/Patent issues are really the way to go and what people should be focusing on…not what hardware or operating system they are using.
Anyways, the point of my original post was not to tell people to “switch”, or to put them down for not using a Mac, it was to further verify the point of the original article with a real person making a real post…people that weren’t interested in the Mac before, are now looking at it (or in my case, buying it).
BTW: I never voted in that slasdhot poll.
— gabe
Unfortuntately, or fortunately (for consumers), Apple is never able to rest on its laurels. (It tried to in the late 90s and almost died)
Unfortuntately, or fortunately (for consumers), Apple is never able to rest on its laurels. (It tried to in the mid 90s and almost died)
One thing people don’t take into account when condsidering the price of a Mac is it’s resale value. For example, Blue & White G3s, capable of running Mac Os X, still sell for around $700 on Ebay and sites that sell used computers. These computers are almost five years old. Wintel computers of the same age are worth next to nothing (most people simply throw them away).
Rajan:
It would be nice if MS took the same stance, but trust me, if you are a Mac user and holding off using a PC because of DRM – YOU ARE STUPID. 🙂 DRM only works when you watching/downloading/whatever DRM media. That’s means if you are downloading a ACC or a MP3 or a Ogg, DRM WON’T work. If you are downloading a WMA from a record company, DRM *might*
work, only if the record company wants it to work.
First, did I say I was a Mac user? No. Second did I say that this list showed in favor of getting a Mac? No. Im interested but they are not ready for me yet. I have several boxes all running Windows with Linux on the side (for now). “Never assume what your trying to prove unless your trying to prove your a bonehead”
Im so stupid? Of course I see alternatives like Ogg. Im not sitting here saying “My own little world is perfect” but saying “what might disturb my own little world and how can I avoid it” I am future watching. Apple’s current DRM stance is to ignore it so I am looking forward and hoep they keep that with thins like Palladium.
Though it is quite sad an industry is being bullied by a much smaller industry, just because the smaller industry wants to keep its 1/2 decade old business model.
I dont really see it as bullying because they think there is money to be made in all of it too. Im sorry, your harware isnt DRM enabled so it wont work on your computer
Nice stance, even though there is NO official proof behind the claims made about Palladium. From what I understand from it is that is it virtually impossible to crack copyright protection in music, video and software. Plus, for shareware, since you can’t turn back the computer clock, you only get to try their software for 15/30/60 days, not 3 years 😛
From whats been released about Palladium, people have said what can be done with it. I hope Microsoft doesnt take it that far but it is a possibility and I dont put anything past them.
One thing people don’t take into account when condsidering the price of a Mac is it’s resale value. For example, Blue & White G3s, capable of running Mac Os X, still sell for around $700 on Ebay and sites that sell used computers. These computers are almost five years old. Wintel computers of the same age are worth next to nothing (most people simply throw them away).
That’s because of intel and amd. They are the ones who push the prices down. How can you sell your old PC with the same prices of another PC which has better CPU, better other stuff. In PC world the prices in the last decades went down all the time.
This resale thing actually means that Apple is quite expensive.
appleforever: See http://www.cnet.com/software/0-3227896-1204-20151654.html?tag=prmo6 on the Pinnancle Studio.
Never liked Pinnancle Studio: horridly hard to use, horridly slow and horridly expensive. Heck, it makes Macs look affordable.
appleforever: Here’s one quote on MGI Videowave: “”Virtually Worthless”
I personally never tried this piece of software. I only mentioned MGI Photosuite which major OEMs bundle for machines targeting digital photography.
appleforever: Here’s Cnet on MyDVD 4: “Unfortunately, the program’s limited tools and expensive tech support hamper its potential”
Can I have a link to that review?
Besides, I don’t see how MyDVD’s feature set is limiting compared to iDVD. Maybe with stuff like Pinnacle, but for consumers, it is good enough. Plus, I remember watching a good review of it on Call For Help.
appleforever: Here’s a recent article from JULIO OJEDA-ZAPATA of the Pioneer Press, comparing Sony’s new consumer DVD program to iDVD:
I have tried Sony’s DVD software: it is laughable. Again, I never mentioned this piece of software.
appleforever: iTunes has been credited by many as the most intuitive.
Only by the Mac press, or from Mac users. I personally found iTunes 3’s UI quite confusing.
Quite suprising compared to other iApps.
appleforever: iPod for windows is great too, but Musicmatch is not as well integrated and it’s less intuitive.
Wow, so since Musicmatch doesn’t sync with your iPod as soon as you plug in your iPod would cause you to buy a Mac, LOL. (Besides, “big suprise” Apple’s products work well with Apple products).
I’m personally considering buying a iPod for PC.
Now, as for MGI PhotoSuite, I once used it. Now, for me, I consider iPhoto the best (the only iApp besides iMovie I’m willing to say that). But even with my lack of knowlegde about photography and especially about digital photography, I found MGI Photosuite easy to learn.
Now, if PixiePlus gets support for digital cameras, you can kiss your iPhoto superiority good bye.
gabe: Looks like the basics are there, and lot of really spiffy looking templates built in. I suppose this could be considered iOffice. It supports the microsoft document formats, although I can’t attest to how well.
AppleWorks and Office are two different markets. appleforever claims that iOffice might be released by Apple and could compete with MS Office. As for the support for MS’ docs, it is one of the worst I have seen (<sacarsm>heck, perhaps KOffice have better support).
gabe: I didn’t buy it for a game machine, I bought it for an easy to use unix box.
Like every other Mac user. PC gaming make up a significant market in the PC world, and trust me, Apple’s not even close in getting some hardcore gamers to switch.
Comparing a PS/2 or a Gamecube to a PC is laughable… 🙂 Two different markets. PC gamers won’t play a console game if a PC version is available; clearly, the quality is better.
Ed page: First, did I say I was a Mac user? No. Second did I say that this list showed in favor of getting a Mac?
I never implied you to be a Mac user, nor favour Macs. What I meant was that if people move to Macs because of DRM, they are ignorant and stupid.
It was obviously NOT MEANT AT YOU. I know mightly well that you are a PC user.
Ed page: Im so stupid? Of course I see alternatives like Ogg. Im not sitting here saying “My own little world is perfect”
Never said you are stupid. Now, if you buy a Mac and use it because of DRM, then you are stupid. DRM won’t prevent you from using Ogg (it didn’t for me). It has restrictions on DRM media. Maybe future CDs would have copyright protection, but thank god I live in a country where fair use is supported.
But I do consider your move against Palladium to be stupid because you and me know little about it to begin.
Ed page: I dont really see it as bullying because they think there is money to be made in all of it too. Im sorry, your harware isnt DRM enabled so it wont work on your computer
Trust me, Microsoft makes its money from the software. It makes no EXTRA money from you just because you buy a new machine to run the latest version of Windows. Heck, they probably make much less money from OEM license then from retail licenses.
Ed page: From whats been released about Palladium, people have said what can be done with it. I hope Microsoft doesnt take it that far but it is a possibility and I dont put anything past them.
From what that have been released about Palladium, it is a TCPA complient hardware-software mix than makes DRM currently in MS’ OS unbreakable. For the stuff paranoid geeks (especially Linux geeks) are saying: they have NO proof.
Personally, I would have to wait and see what Palladium is. I would make rash decission, I have made a few before I have since regreted it.
If Palladium does prevent me from playing Ogg files or prevent me from using Linux – mark my words, I would be the first person to order a Mac or AmigaOne.
rajan “Like every other Mac user. PC gaming make up a significant market in the PC world, and trust me, Apple’s not even close in getting some hardcore gamers to switch. ”
Ok, now you’re just rambling…and obviously didn’t read what I said…(psst..read the part about Win98 again in that paragraph) I’ve been a PC gamer for umm….oh I dunno, ever since 386’s where considered fast…Hell, I’ve been a computer gamer since the C64 was new, I know the computer game market. And where did I ever say anything about anyone “switching” for any reason? If you read my post again you’ll probably see that I only said “I switched” from other unixes…I even explicitly said I wouldn’t be deleting my Windows partition.
“Comparing a PS/2 or a Gamecube to a PC is laughable… :-)”
I would disagree with you there, certain types of games play better on consoles than PC’s and vice versa, but I think lumping them all together as game playing devices is perfectly valid.
“Two different markets. PC gamers won’t play a console game if a PC version is available; clearly, the quality is better.”
Funny, I work in an office full of gamers, they all play console and PC games. Seems like the same market to me (I can’t think of a single one that doesn’t do both now, if they play games they play both…). And there are many cases where they will play the console title over the PC title, and vice versa. As for quality, I guess that depends on your criteria. I could go on disecting the quality of PC and console titles here for quite a while, but, now it’s getting way off topic, considering that this story is about slashdot people are now looking at macs. It really has very little to do with PC gaming or Windows in general. I’m not really sure what point you’re trying to make or prove.
I would have bought a Powerbook but I couldn’t stomach spending all that money for only one mouse button!
appleforever: Here’s Cnet on MyDVD 4: “Unfortunately, the program’s limited tools and expensive tech support hamper its potential”
rajan: “Can I have a link to that review?”
This is the review on MyDVD 4: http://www.cnet.com/software/0-3227896-1204-20484705.html?tag=prmo2
appleforever: Here’s a recent article from JULIO OJEDA-ZAPATA of the Pioneer Press, comparing Sony’s new consumer DVD program to iDVD:
Rajan: I have tried Sony’s DVD software: it is laughable. Again, I never mentioned this piece of software.
I cited this article because it states that iDVD remains the gold standard for consumer DVD authoring software (i.e., is superior to the PC equivalents), and because in a prior thread you identified Sony as a company offering a set of bundled apps comparable to Apple’s bundled set. Here’s the link for this article:
http://www.twincities.com/mld/pioneerpress/business/technology/pers…
appleforever: iTunes has been credited by many as the most intuitive.
Rajan: “Only by the Mac press, or from Mac users. I personally found iTunes 3’s UI quite confusing.
Quite suprising compared to other iApps.”
This is from Tom’s Hardware (not mac press): “iTunes is a very intuitive and easy to use program for managing music on the Apple iPod. The user interface that iTunes offers is more polished and perhaps a bit more robust than Musicmatch is on the PC. We liked its ability to handle many features in what we consider to be a more logical nature than Musicmatch.” http://www6.tomshardware.com/mobile/02q4/021003/ipod-07.html
appleforever, if I were you I would count on my reasoning and my knowledge not the press’s. This is because I have repeatedly seen how much press can distort facts, can confuse you or not tell the whole story.
On the hype of the dot-com stuff, we were seeing all sorts of research companies predicting certain things, and these companies are supposedly professional research companies. None of those happened, and people lost lots of money in the stock market.
The truth is that, Cnet review or Tom’s Hardware review says very little about the truth. You never know. They may have financial gains to write a smooth review. They may also write nice reviews about Apple products to fight with Microsoft, and I see such cases. Cnet is totally biased against Microsoft, and they are actively trying to persuade people not to use Microsoft products. As alternative they are very nice to Linux and Apple.
gabe: Ok, now you’re just rambling…
No, you are rambling. I figured to were replying to me and again asume you got my point wrongly, so I restated my point. Nothing less, nothing more.
gabe: I would disagree with you there, certain types of games play better on consoles than PC’s and vice versa, but I think lumping them all together as game playing devices is perfectly valid.
If games were made to take advantage of *current* mainstream hardware on the PC, you can be sure that the games would have a better gameplay and graphics quality than in the console version.
One thing I notice that console have an upperhand to PCs for gaming is playing the game itself because you don’t use your mouse and/or keyboard but rather a device specifically made for games.
gabe: Funny, I work in an office full of gamers, they all play console and PC games.
Funny, I’m a teenager (the bulk of gamers are youth), and all the extreeme gamers I have known rather play the PC than any console, even though all of them have a console at home, be it Nintendo or a PS/PS2 (no, I have yet to met one person in Malaysia to own a XBOX).
gabe: I’m not really sure what point you’re trying to make or prove.
The point I’m trying to prove (the point before you came into the thread) is that PCs have its target markets that wouldn’t consider the Mac AT ALL, especially gamers.
appleforever: I’m not gonna quote you on MyDVD, but notice here http://www.cnet.com/software/search/0,11066,0-3227896-1202-0,00.htm…
for consumer DVD editing;
1) Dazzle DVD Complete (9/10)
2) MedioStream NeoDVD Standard 4.0 (8/10)
3) DVD MovieFactory (7/10)
InterVideo WinProducer 3.0 DVD (7/10)
Sonic MyDVD Plus 4.0 (7/10)
Apple iDVD (7/10)
So, accroading to CNET, they rated two PC titles better than iDVD, and two more as good as iDVD. Plus, for MyDVD, CNET rated it as good as iDVD. Here’s some quotes for you
http://www.cnet.com/software/0-3227896-1204-8723738.html?tag=pdtl-l…
“The bad: Doesn’t transfer or edit footage; doesn’t create submenus for links to particular scenes; works only on Apple computers equipped with SuperDrives; requires OS X 10.1.”
appleforever: I cited this article because it states that iDVD remains the gold standard for consumer DVD authoring software (i.e., is superior to the PC equivalents)
Than you are looking at the wrong source. CNET says Dazzle DVD Complete is the best of the lot. And PC-only too.
http://www.cnet.com/software/0-3227896-1204-20206222.html?tag=pdtl-… – “Dazzle DVD Complete offers more sophisticated DVD-authoring features than any other PC-based, sub-$100 DVD program. It’s ideal for beginners and intermediate moviemakers who work on a Windows machine and don’t need video-editing tools.”
And for Musicmatch, never did like the player (I currently like RealONE the best). Why doesn’t Apple want to work with WMP, argubly the best thing against iTunes now and in the future is quite obvious. But would I buy a Mac just to use iTunes with iPod? Never. You and instead just manage your playlists in other players, and import them in Musicmatch and sync it.
Sergio: Cnet is totally biased against Microsoft, and they are actively trying to persuade people not to use Microsoft products.
Actually, Sergio, I would say otherwise. CNet is quite unbiased. It is certain authors that are biased, but overall not biased at all. if they are biased, they wouldn’t give iDVD 7/10. To prove that is David Coursey – for YEARS he was an anti-Linux anti-Mac pro-MS columnist (of course now he isn’t, but still pro-MS)
I still prefer Linux as a desktop OS, and OS X can’t hold a candle to Linux as a server OS. I am very pleased with Linux as a desktop OS, but about a year ago I bought an iMac in hopes of better support for mainstream games and hardware. I found that Linux with WineX is more mainstream than OS X when it comes to games and hardware. You can get some other mainstream apps on Apple that you can’t on Linux like Microsoft Office, Internet Explorer, and Photoshop, but I prefer OpenOffice, I hate IE (prefer Galeon), and I use GIMP instead of shelling out big bucks for Photoshop. OpenOffice is still in Beta for OS X.
OS X is pretty nice, but I prefer KDE 3. The OS X GUI is kind of awkward and limited. KDE 3 is more flexible, configurable, feature rich, and attractive. It’s also faster on Gentoo than OS X on the underpowered iMac. I’ll keep dabbling with OS X, and I am glad it is a viable alternative in case anything ever happens to Linux. For now, however, Linux is best for me.
Please get a clue. Apple will ALWAYS be proprietary. If they come with an x86 computer you will still not be able to build a computer that will run any version of Mac OS. It will still require a ROM chip just like current G4 and previous Mac computers did and do. You will always be missing that one piece. So there will never be any home built or clone Macs out there ever again as long as Steve Jobs is the CEO or in any control of any kind at Apple. While this makes Macs cost more. It is a good thing that you will never have to worry about Macs having to support cheap (as in junk and not as in inexpensive) junk hardware.
Macs are not expensive. I keep seeing this repeated and it’s simply not true. The reason – – because most people keep their Macs for a lot longer before they have to upgrade. Yes, you can buy a cheapo PC for less than a new iMac – – you won’t get anything like the same features or quality of components – – and you’ll have to get another one in 2 or 3 years, because it won’t run Microsloth’s latest bloatware. Not to mention the time you’ll have to waste in those 2 or 3 years simply to keep that ugly beige box running – – re-installing Windows over and over and over again and weekends cleaning up after someone uses your computer for email and unwittingly opens up an attachment with bugbear on it.
These people saying Macs are expensive aren’t factoring in resale value either. Old Macs are still worth money! Check eBay. I’ve got a 6 year old PowerMac that I can still get 2 or 3 hundred dollars for. Can you even give away a 6 year old PC? My friend is still using my 10 year old Mac for the web and email. When you consider all these things Macs are actually a really good value.
I have a friend who bought a new PC when I bought my first Mac, 10 years ago. Since then he’s bought 3 new systems. I upgraded to a used PowerMac 2 1/2 years ago. Which of us has spent more money? Which of us has had fewer headaches?
I can’t afford a new Mac either, wish I could. But in the new year I plan to upgrade to a 2 year old PowerMac G4 which will be a lot cheaper than a new PC. The money I’ll get for my current system will buy me a new monitor. And I’ll be happily working away, while some frustrated PC user is having a fantasy about throwing his box off a tall building when he’s trying to make Windows see his digital camera.
Rajan: I’m not gonna quote you on MyDVD, but notice here http://www.cnet.com/software/search/0,11066,0-3227896-1202-0,00.htm…
for consumer DVD editing;
1) Dazzle DVD Complete (9/10)
2) MedioStream NeoDVD Standard 4.0 (8/10)
3) DVD MovieFactory (7/10)
InterVideo WinProducer 3.0 DVD (7/10)
Sonic MyDVD Plus 4.0 (7/10)
Rajan: So, accroading to CNET, they rated two PC titles better than iDVD, and two more as good as iDVD. Plus, for MyDVD, CNET rated it as good as iDVD.
I wouldn’t buy those products based on the cnet ratings, since the user reviews are unbelieavbly negative
On the Dazzle DVD Complete (43 percent negative):
“Who’s kidding who? Did Erik Holsinger even use the product before reviewing it? Looks like he submitted a review pre-written by Dazzle’s marketing department. How can anyone condone $24.95 per call for support on a product that will crash and/or fail each time you try to use it? . . . .Erik Holsinger’s review and be sure to search the web for user reports in forums and newsgroups to get the “real story.”
“”Just doesn’t work… I recieved this program as part of the Dazzle DVD Creation Station 200. I have yet to be able to create a DVD. I supply the program with captured video, it processes it, then when I attempt to burn it on DVD, the program simply stops with no error messages. Tech support has been of no help at all(when you can even get thru to them, i’ve spent literally HOURS on hold). I’m just about ready to try for a refund. Too bad, because the hardware does a good job of video capture.”
InterVideo WinProducer 3.0 DVD (only one review, negative): “”Doesn’t remember settings. One of the most fustrating pieces of software I can ever remember using. ”
Sonic MyDVD Plus 4.0 (only two reviews, both negative): “Terrible product”
The video interlacing isn’t properly preserved, so the output look jagged and noisey. It frequently crashes, as well. Stay away from this product.” and “”Difficult to downloadAfter numerous downloads and calls for help to Sonic, i just pitched it and bought Wind DVD”
MedioStream NeoDVD Standard 4.0 (I could find only one review to read (even though the site said there was 8, they weren’t there), and the one review was negative: “Lovely except for DVD Quality” Also problems connecting to Hauppauge USB and PCII video devices” 40 percent of the 12 reviews for Neo DVD Plus 3.0 were negative.
DVD MovieFactory (44 percent negative reviews): “The interface repeatedly crashed when trying to to chapters so you need to save your project often. I really hope Ulead gets their act together and fixes this because otherwise this is a nice consumer product.” and
“”The capture plug-in always crashes.”In response to my email to Ulead asking for support for this product, which simply doesn’t capture video, their main suggestions were to (1) uninstall and reinstall the software (which I had already tried and TOLD them in my email that I had tried it), and (2) they suggested that if (1) didn’t work, I should reinstall my operating system. This is an horrible suggestion, as it would take days to reinstall and reconfigure all of my software, and there would be no greater chance DVD Factory would work” and
“”Poor for what it costs. For a hundred dollars, I expect a piece of software that really works. DVD MovieFactory is unstable, has terrible DVD burning support and features (i.e. no DVD+R or DVD+RW support), has a poor interface, the slow motion implementation is horrible, and that’s just a start. The sad thing is, I don’t know of any better piece of software in the price range. ”
Rajan quoting a Cnet iDVD review:
“The bad: Doesn’t transfer or edit footage; doesn’t create submenus for links to particular scenes; works only on Apple computers equipped with SuperDrives; requires OS X 10.1.”
88 percent of the user reviews on iDVD were positive. iMovie is used to transfer an and edit footage, obviously. The fact that it runs only on Apple and 10.1 is are not “problems,” it’s just the way it goes. Lack of chapter marks is a missing feature, but hardly determinative of the merits of the program.
appleforever: I cited this article because it states that iDVD remains the gold standard for consumer DVD authoring software (i.e., is superior to the PC equivalents)
rajan: Than you are looking at the wrong source. CNET says Dazzle DVD Complete is the best of the lot. And PC-only too. . . .”Dazzle DVD Complete offers more sophisticated DVD-authoring features than any other PC-based, sub-$100 DVD program. It’s ideal for beginners and intermediate moviemakers who work on a Windows machine and don’t need video-editing tools.”
First, again 43 percent of the user reviews were negative. Second, Cnet says it offers more “features” than “any other PC-based, sub-$100 DVD program.” It doesn’t say it’s the best. Plus it’s got the most features of the “PC-based” programs, which in common usage refers to the PC world, not Apple.
Rajan: “But would I buy a Mac just to use iTunes with iPod? Never. You and instead just manage your playlists in other players, and import them in Musicmatch and sync it. ”
If you remember, you had asserted that only the mac press found iTunes more intuitive than the PC jukebox/mp3 players. I gave you a cite to a Tom’s Hardware article saying iTunes was more intuitive than Musicmatch. That’s all.