“…if the nine states and the District of Columbia decided against an appeal, Microsoft would cover the states’ expenses and provide an additional pot of funds for the states to help enforce the settlement deal, the sources said.” Read the full article at the Washington Post.
Microsoft Offered States a Fee Deal
2002-12-14 Microsoft 35 Comments
i smell a bribe there…
We have money, and this is US! money opens every door! We can even buy the government! Resistance is futile!
I am so happy that there are still people with senses.
They can break the law and buy their way out of trouble. It’s kind of like what happens in small towns, The guys woith resources can do anything they want. This is nothing more than a bribe, and the attorneys that offered it, the attorneys that accepted it, and Microsoft corporate officers should be charged with bribery and obstruction of justice.
Nah, if it was a bribe, it wouldn’t be all over the news.
Although, I don’t agree with Microsoft buying them off.
However, I also don’t agree with the dissenting states.
…if Microsoft could succeed in becoming the very evil corporate government that distopic science fiction has predicted for decades…
This may not be true, the reported news, since it is heresay, but how many of us are willing to believe it because of the things that ARE facts?
When does this end?
In the beginning, it was “government of the people, by the people, for the people”
Today, it’s government of the people, by the rich, for the rich.
I prefer “government of the consumers, by The Corporation, for The Corporation”
Governments need to move to BSD/MIT license based operating systems, adapt them to their own needs and then either close the source or give it away.
Hey they can’t do that. It is illegal isn’t it? If I bribed an police officer I would go to jail.
This is so hilarious “Hey, drop your appeal and we’ll cover your expenses and then some! After all, it’s not like we’re having any kind of shortage!”
While I don’t think it’s anywhere near a technical bribe, any state that would accept this should be ashamed.
” and as we wind on down the road,
our Shadows taller than our Souls”
If that doesn’t describe Bush & Microsoft’s America I don’t what does.
or is it scary when a corperation can afford to pay the legal expenses of the states that seued it…..I mean….governmnetal bodies….geeze…
“In the beginning, it was “government of the people, by the people, for the people”
Today, it’s government of the people, by the rich, for the rich.”
Couldn’t agree more. Democracy needs to be restored. Problem is the people believe everything they hear on fox news.
This isn’t a bribe. Its Microsoft going above and beyond what they have to do (while they would have to reimburse the states expenses they wouldn’t have to give them extra). The truth is the states that aren’t appealing most likely wouldn’t have appealed. The reason being that in most of the nine states the tax payers are growing tired of this case. Here in Minnesota one of the country’s largest taxpayers league sent a petition with over 200,000 signatures to the state attorney general asking him to either drop the case or explain why it was so important for Minnesotan’s. He did neither. Iowa has a similar movement. No taxpayer wants to fight ms when the only beneficiaries are sun and aol. buy hey you guys are going to continuing believing ms is buying off the government and nothing anyone can say will change your minds so I don’t even know why I bother.
btw the government can’t just switch to bsd/mit liscensed oses. They have to find a low bidder on every project they do (over a certain amount). If there was an actual company offering a bsd/mit liscensed os at a lower cost then windows then the government would be obliged to use it (but only if its overall costs were less, not just its up front costs). And thats only if it meets the minimum requirements of the project (and no one of them isn’t being able to run current software, it would only need to be able to run software that can do the same tasks as current software). Costs would include hardware upgrades, applications, retraining of it staff (or restaffing) if applicable and retraining of the general staff if applicable.
Actually, putting a brake on MS will benefit just about everybody. But it’s not going to happen 40 billion dollars buys you some peace of mind, I reckon.
Deborah Rhode, a professor of legal ethics at Stanford University, said that such negotiations, while not a “pretty practice,” are not unusual in corporate litigation. She added that the U.S. Supreme Court has affirmed the propriety of simultaneous negotiations over fees and legal issues.
To you, Nicholas, and everyone, while the motive may be similar to a bribe or a blackmail, it isn’t. What Microsoft essentially is saying they can pursue their case in the Appeals court, but Microsoft would fight not to pay their legal fees anymore.
Besides, the USA is really a government of the people, by the people, for the people, this stupid case would have never begun. Some sore loser decided to use some stupid law against Microsoft, and the Democratic government upheld it. If “government of the people, for the blah blah” means siding with sore losers, I really need to brush up on my English skills cause I don’t understand it at all.
Real is an example of a good competitor. Until recently, they have crapp products. High prices. Yet till now, more than 2 years after Microsoft integrated NetShow into Windows, they are still standing. If they were run by similar executives as Netscape, they would be dying like Netscape 2 years after Windows 98. But no.
Rajan, are you Bill Gates under the hood or something? Please Come to your senses.
I find this unethical. Fuck the laws of America if they don’t. In America, the god is money. Everytime MS does another unethical thing, I feel happy that I have decided not to use .NET ever.
It is basically bribe. Very clear. Give me ONE reason which may not be related with the closing of the case.
CroanoN: Rajan, are you Bill Gates under the hood or something? Please Come to your senses.
No, you come to your senses. I’m no supporter of Microsoft. When it comes to security, bleeach. Servers, ewwww. I’m a pro-capitalist guy. That’s why I support Microsoft. Not because they are all so goodie-good. If Microsoft found a chance to counter-sue Sun or Be or even AOL, hell yes they would. And I wouldn’t support that either.
I respect Bill Gates, and specifically Steve Balmer as a businessman and a excellent marketer. Yet I’m not somebody that is easily influenzed by Microsoft. My OS of preference, for example, is Linux. If I could, i would be running that. But running that would mean using expensive per-minute dial-up.
Two years ago, I was like you. I absolutely hate Microsoft. Then I started to mature in my thinking. Mainly because my mom challege me. I’m no Microsoft apologist. They kill a person, I would be bashing them. They steal code, I would be bashing them. But antitrust laws is not ethical. It is punishing a company for being too successful under the guise of protecting the consumer.
Let me use this analogy. If in a race, a runner always win, while his opponents is always far behind. he wins all the trophies for his country. But the other runners are not happy. So the coach comes up with an idea. He decides to put lead in the shoes of the first runner. Would that make the rest faster? No, it would just make the first slower. But no, that isn’t enough, he decides to cut off the legs of that runner? Again, would it make the other runners faster? And how would it benefit the country, would these new so-call fast runners be able to run for their country?
Ahh, no. It is very similar here.
CroanoN: It is basically bribe. Very clear. Give me ONE reason which may not be related with the closing of the case.
Personally, it is more similar to blackmail than bribe. Microsoft could easily win in a case to pass all the state’s legal fees back to Microsoft. And California knows that. They do not have all the money in the world for that. Bribery is where Microsoft goes to the attorneys, ask them to drop the case, then they would pay a large amount of money for their personal pockets (not to pay for the legal fees).
If it was bribery, trust me, there would be a thousand cases against Microsoft right this minute accusing them of just that. Plus, logically, California wouldn’t accept the “bribe” because they house most of Microsoft “harmed” competitors.
I have every reason to oppose Microsoft in this case. Let’s see
1) I’m a huge fan of Linux. If I could use Linux right now, I would, trust me. And the State’s settlement could only help Linux. Like bringing Office to Linux. Having a version of the open sourced IE on Linux (able to see those sites that only render good on IE). Stuff like that.
2) I plan in the future to build a company competing against Microsoft Office. Why would I want a strong Microsoft around? That State’s proposed settlement would help me way more than the DOJ’s one. (Jackson’s one is potentially worse though)
3) I wouldn’t have people like you calling me Bill gate’s sex slave or Microsoft employee or Microsoft’s brainwashed human experiment and stuff like that.
So I have three reasons to support your case. But I have one reason why I don’t. My personal conviction. I’m someone who is honest, and what I see being done against Microsoft, to my opinion, is incredibly unjust. I would never become a hypocrite, even if it means I would loose out because of the factors named above. So I’m not under Bill Gates’ spell.
“But antitrust laws is not ethical. It is punishing a company for being too successful under the guise of protecting the consumer. ”
Yet coercing companies to do your bidding is? threatening companies that install a non-windows os is okay? overcharging consumers is fine? Eliminating choice from a market is okay. Releasing a product that is sub-par is okay?
Take that pro-capitalist crap out of your head. It is an unsustainable unrealistic position and one that is a guise for the ultra rich (see we can do that too). And they (the ultra-rich and their sheep) loathe real competition.
The idea of a free market economy is that competition regulates it. That does not mean no regulation. It means the competition does it. Now how would competition regulate MS if there is none? The antitrust law seeks to reintroduce competition as a regulating factor. Stop reading anne coultier and come to your senses.
Government intervention is everywhere and your capitalist pals are the biggest benefactors. Look at the carlye group. How much technology is given to defense contractors (paid by US tax payers) and then given to companies for free to use in the commercial segment. The internet anyone? CDMA? Teh jet engine? Can you say BOEING. How much money does the US government spend taxing, enforcing laws, puting up roads, establishing electricity, water. etc. Do you think your capitalist pals benefit. How much does the community pay to dispose and clean up the waste of intel? do you think intel would be profitable if they had to pay for the crap they do to the environment?
Here is the deal if want to support that extreme capitalist position then the corporations have to pay for their own
power plants, roads, water distribution, military, police, courts, etc. etc. And MS need to start paying the US tax payers for our investment in the internet/arpanet.
I do not see any relations between maturing of thoughts and changing your attitude towards MS:
“But antitrust laws is not ethical. It is punishing a company for being too successful under the guise of protecting the consumer.”
This is not what is happening. MS IS PERFORMING UNETHICAL BUSINESS TACTICS to gain advantage. This is wrong. This is why they are evil. Not because they are successful. If that was the case, everyone would open up an untitrust case against MS. MS GLUED IE TO WINDOWS FOR FREE. This is done just to destroy other browser producer firms, since they saw the advantage of grabbing web explorer industry. The next thing they did was introducing millions of Windows related stupid extensions to the HTML, because of which web developers are still suffering. Is it helping the world?
I believe if MS has never existed, the IT would be in much much much further point right now.
So, where is your “Give me ONE reason which may not be related with the closing of the case.” reason? I do not see it in your reply. Why do you think that MS is giving money to the states if it is not bribe or blackmail? In all the cases, I find what they are doing UNETHICAL even if MS LAWS DO OR DO NOT.
Maybe you should challenge your mom once again. ; )
My OS of preference, for example, is Linux. If I could, i would be running that. But running that would mean using expensive per-minute dial-up.
Then why not use it linux will work with all connection types?
This is not about having IE come with windows, MS is far worse then that. When I used to only use windows I bought Netscape, if MS made it where only IE would work with windows, then we have something to biych about besides IE coming with window. We have a chioce in software we get, IE is not forced upon window users. All the bugs & security holes is something to bitch about.
You guys need a edit button.
…of spreading just the right amount of nonsensical memes to the masses of wanna-be capitalists…
Claiming that MS is being attacked because they are sucessful is like claiming that being arrested for stealing from your neighbor is sour grapes.
It’s just like the BS that the Republicans and Democrats spewed when trying to convince people that they were the ONLY choices available to vote for. They tried to convince (and they DID convince) a great number of people that voting for Nader was actually a vote for the BAD-GUYS (or was a wasted vote, or whatever other nonsensical BS).
All this talk of maturing means nothing. You could be 10 years old and still have correct and unbiased information. However, if your information comes from a pro-capitalist source or if you are filtering things through your own pro-capitalist perspective, you’re not going to see things in any way other than pro-capitalist. And amazing it is that these capitalists, constantly trying to get money from each other, will defend each others’ “rights” to aquire that money.
Why is it that 90% of the people who think legalizing pot in the USA are pot heads? Duh.
Many pro-capitalist people don’t seem to be interested in concrete details and the actual function of the laws they claim to oppose. The focus seems to be on spewing premade catch phrases such as “anti-trust laws are unethical attacks on the successful.” Pure nonsense.
I occasionally hear the misconception that antitrust laws exist to penalize overly successful companies. If a company is successful there are myriad of other groups that would be interesting in entering the same marketplace, competition or not. So when there is a monopoly, one stops and looks around: how come no one else is as successful in the same space? Who will be the first to tell me that Microsoft never did something to stop others who seeked to strive in the very same marketplace? (It is a misconception that they would “die” had they not. There are many “niche” groups, take Amiga for example, that shows that a market can exist even much after it seemed to the investors that it did not. Of course, whether they want to invest in a small market is a different idea.)
The bottom line is: do not confuse monopoly with success. Many companies are very successful and are NOT monopolies.
Today, it’s government of the people, by the rich, for the rich.
More like “Government of the government, by the government, and for the government.”
States see this just like the tobacco settlement: a source of revenue for state coffers.
A real sign of maturity is the ability to distinguish the truth from the subset of polarized extremes. Its not the left or the right you need to worry about. Its both. Extremes are almost always wrong, and they are almost always a cover for something else…. a monogamy of power.
In america, the middle class keeps footing the bill for both those extremes, and i for one am sick of it. I think its about time we kick out the republicans and the democrats.
I never called this illegal. I just think it’s rediculous that a multi-billion dollar company like Microsoft (Bill Gates alone is worth over $33 billion) is getting off easy by paying a measely $24 million. They’re being allowed to keep all the money that they got from the wrongdoing they were convicted of, and that’s justice? All the settlement was is a smack on the wrist “Don’t do it again!”
Please, you think that hiding icons is the answer? How about removing all the rediculous integration. Besides, all-in-one programs are slow, heavy, and just a bad idea. Specialize Windows Explorer to do what it’s for, exploring your harddisk. Specialize Internet Explorer to do what it’s for, explore the web. Windows XP uses Windows/Internet Explorer and WMP practically everywhere in the OS. It’s a tangled mess, and unnecessary. Only then will it be possible to actually REMOVE Internet Explorer and replace it with Mozilla, Opera, or whatever browser you prefer. The same for Windows Explorer and WMP.
I’m not anti-capitalist, so please don’t try to act like I am. I am pro-competition, which is what any REAL capitalist (Who is not being blinded by greed) wants. And if you can tell me any other company that has had any success with putting a halfway decent operating system onto pre-built computers through vendors such as Dell and such, I would love to hear it (And don’t mention Wally World’s Linux PC’s, because those are recent and Microsoft has since stopped their bully tactics). BeOS tried to do this, but was blocked by Microsoft’s contracts, which put vendors into a headlock. They either provided computers with Windows for a discount, and didn’t put any other OSes on, or they provided computers with Windows full-price (That’s a LOT more money) and could provide other OSes.
BTW, as far as I know it’s still against Microsoft’s contract to sell “naked”, OS-less PCs. Dell started shipping with a floppy-copy of FreeDOS (Or was it a CDROM?) to get around it.
“Actually, putting a brake on MS will benefit just about everybody. But it’s not going to happen 40 billion dollars buys you some peace of mind, I reckon.”
How does it benefit me? I run windows and office and ie? Most other people run windows, office and ie. How does helping sun, aol and opensource help me?
btw why do people keep bringing up the fact that ms is successful? some people act like its an insult to be number one.
It won’t help you in the beginning. You will terribly suffer in the evil clutches of an alien operating system. : ))))
Benefits will come in the long run. The firms will start competing with each other to produce some products which they can sell, since they are not glued to the OS. Which will create competition, which is one of the pillars holding capitalism if I understood Mr. Smith well. That will decrease prices, and increase quality of the products. Also, you will have choices. Everybody may have different taste you know.
For instance: How much is the Office? Do you think that MS would think lowering the price of Office for Mac etc if OpenOffice.org did not released a free alternative? Why they did lower the price now? To help the world?
So, you will benefit, many different firms will benefit, the frequency of innovation will speed up, and IT will benefit.
Or are you blind?
No, of course you don’t. (Haven’t we met before heh) I don’t agree with all of it either, however I especially don’t agree with this judges pathetic ruling.
//Why is it that 90% of the people who think legalizing pot in the USA are pot heads? Duh.//
Examine closely. That sentence, much like yourself, makes no sense.
Okay, fine, there’s a writing mistake in there. Obviously it should read: “Why is it that 90% of the people who want to legalize pot in the USA are pot heads?”
Okay, Mr. Perfect and Logical… There’s no EDIT feature for messages in this forum and you want to pick on me for THAT? I spend a lot more time than many checking what I write for correctness before I post. PLUS it’s just a stupid analogy. So what?
Why are you using my badly formed sentence as an attack on Mr. Brownstone? And who the heck is Mr. Brownstone anyway? There’s no one posting here by that name. Am I missing something extremely obvious to your genious and perfectness?
And you tell me I make no sense.
“Hello Kettle? This is the Pot calling…”