“The Apple booth staff ‘freaked’ when I tried to plug my FWDepot Cutie FireWire test drive into the new 17″ and 12″ PowerBooks with Photoshop, Quake3, and other real world test apps. But I knew you wanted some idea of the performance, right? So since the demo units were connected to the ‘Net, I downloaded Xbench beta and ran it on the two new PowerBooks… along with a few others.” Take a look at the benchmarks over at Bare Feats.
Citing PS + Q3A over and over…. *yawn* — There’s simply not much else to run… Can’t this crap just drop dead? Saves me to convince the few remaining who don’t grasp it on their own….
“The administrators on this site are so anti Apple, it might as well be called C|Net or ZDNet”
So true.
Microshit sucks! There software is VERY poorly written and they came to power by bullying smaller companies.
Here comes the Mod partol…
What makes you so sure it is Eugenia that moded you down or deleted your post?
I suppose it could have been any one of the AntiMac admins on this site, but i just assumed it was Eugenia based on her previous news post choices to the front page and comments on these boards… both of which tend to have a negative (towards Apple) slant.
It seems to me that sites displaying news from only a handful of editors or news pieces from a similar select handful of journalists tend to be outside of the common from of thinking with regard to most technology enthusiests.
OSNews is a perfect example of this problem in action.
You can sense it in her writing. When she rants about defending MS, I try and visualize George Costanza’s mother screaming at the top of her head, “Don’t you talk about Microsoft that way!”
Did a article search at Cnet on that author that slammed Apple’s new books. The first 100 of his articles came back with 2 negative Apple stories and the rest were positive MS and Intel stories.
And why is this article about OSes ? Sounds like hardware too me. Can’t wait to read the new benchmark’s on HP’s laptops here too! Brother.
Weird – I would’ve expected the 12″ powerbook to best the 12″ ibook in the CPU test given the clock/memory speed advantage. And it looks like the ATI chip gives the ibook better quartz performance. Hardly seems worth it….
Even if she is pro-ms…why do you care? Do you really have nothing better to complain about this. Your pro-apple she’s pro-ms……WHO FUCKING CARES!! Get out more guys…get a life.
“I try and visualize George Costanza’s mother screaming”
Damn that is funny…and true!
“Marklar” isn’t that a secret version of OS X running atop intel hardware?
BTW did you catch Steve Jobs comments on CNBC where he replied that he’s got some things ‘up his sleeve’ for harware in the coming months? Interesting indeed.
Get out more guys…get a life
And you are any better b e c a u s e . . . ?
“Even if she is pro-ms…why do you care?”
– You asked, so I’ll answer. I really don’t care. I never had much patience with people that say they are one thing, when they believe something else. It gets tiresome.
“Even if she is pro-ms…why do you care? Do you really have nothing better to complain about this. Your pro-apple she’s pro-ms……WHO FUCKING CARES!! Get out more guys…get a life.”
If that were it then it would be fine… but her news posts on this site lead others to believe that there is nothing positive going on at Apple and that Microsoft and intel are the only technology companies worth looking at.
It gets even worse when she )and other admins on this site0 start deleting comments that they disagree with.
“Marklar” isn’t that a secret version of OS X running atop intel hardware?”
I wondered if and when anyone would ever catch that.
Yay! do I get a prize for being astute?
Wait, I’m a Mac user, I already have my prize!
“Wait, I’m a Mac user, I already have my prize!
“
Uh oh… you shouldn’t have said that…that one’s SURELY going to get modded down
///If that were it then it would be fine… but her news posts on this site lead others to believe that there is nothing positive going on at Apple and that Microsoft and intel are the only technology companies worth looking at.
It gets even worse when she )and other admins on this site0 start deleting comments that they disagree with.///
First most of the time she is posting items from other sites. And since when do we believe everything we read on the net.
And second….they don’t really seem to be deleting or monitoring any posts anymore since she is not working on the site full-time anymore.
And instead of bitching why don’t you post something like the positive things you think apple is doing….I would think would be allot more productive then bitching.
“First most of the time she is posting items from other sites.”
Yes, and coincidentally rarely do we ever see anything positive. Typically its either Bad or neutral. Yet on the other hand we find Pro MS and Intel stores all the time. It’s somewhat suggestive… wouldn;t you think?
“And second….they don’t really seem to be deleting or monitoring any posts anymore since she is not working on the site full-time anymore.”
That’s funny… i just had a post deleted today.
Regardless… posts should NEVER be deleted, but rather modded down ONLY if they contina flamable worthless comments… like those at the top of this thread.
“And instead of bitching why don’t you post something like the positive things you think apple is doing….”
I want front page news for the news pieces I submit… not something burried in the forums.I’ve submitted SEVERAL (well into the hundreds) pro Apple news stories to OS News and have only got one of them posted
“I would think would be allot more productive then bitching.”
I’ve done all I can do. Bitching is all I have left.
There is something strange about this story. At the Apple booth, they let him swap drives (and he happened to have a drive that had these real life apps on it), download XBench and was able to not only run the tests but also get fabulous screenshots of them. I don’t know, I guess it’s true, but it’s kind of hazy in its reality.
…for the 12″ being slower than an iBook, that is. I’m willing to bet that XBench is just running very basic math stuff, and the longer pipeline on the 7450 CPU vs the 750cx (7 vs. 4) is probably the killer. Also, the 12″ lacks L3 cache.
On a different note, did “anyone” notice that “someone” seemed to go “a little crazy” with the “quotation-marks?”
////I’ve done all I can do. Bitching is all I have left.////
If this is really what you have let your life come to I really feel sorry for you.
I know if I ever get to the poiunt where all I can do is complain and bitch about everything I will get out of the cubical life of IT and find something that would make me a happier person…..just a suggestion to you.
Marklar’s Background
Turn ons:
? Walks on the beach
? Polite conversation
? Reaing balanced operating system news
Turn Offs
? Mean People
? Reaing unbalanced operating system news
? Receiving unsolicited advice from idiots
(Doh!… bad HTML and spelling… lemme try this again)
Marklar’s Background
<bTurn ons:
• Walks on the beach
• Polite conversation
• Reading balanced operating system news
Turn Offs:
• Mean People
• Reading unbalanced operating system news
• Receiving unsolicited advice from idiots
ahh forget it… (OS News news a preview button)
Wow that was a wonderful retort.
I stand corrected
ok, now that this has become a free for all I will make a shamless plug for SciTech latest SNAP Linux (alpha) drivers – I’m very impressed with the performance on my radeon 8500!
Now when will we see the mac version (thought it smart to tie this back into the original topic;)
//Wow that was a wonderful retort.
I stand corrected//
Thanks…I do my best…BTW im just messing with you so dont take it the wrong way. 🙂
As opposed to some PCs, Macs can boot off a Firewire drive.
It is not uncommon for people to carry portable Firewire drives (I do) with their apps, just in case you need to use some apps (as opposed to some PCS, most apps on Macs don’t even need installing, so you can run them off an external drive)
Also, Apple staff tends to be quite helpfull, especially when they are at MacWorld presenting new products.
Remember… caring for your potential/current customers used to be the way of doing business before some corporations introduced the “F*ck/Rip/Steal the customer” way of selling.
I have modded down and deleted some messages due their way below par content. Please stop with any personal attacks or name calling. If you disagree, then please formulate your opinions or reasonings in a proper manner. And try to stay constructive and polite towards other people’s opinions.
We all have different opinions, just as well the moderators and writers here on OSNews. But we respect eachother, regardless of our different points of view.
a, I know it’s possible the Barefeats guy could have done this – it just seemed like his casual way of saying how he did this was, well…a little too easy.
Eugenia is not pro-Microsoft and anti-Apple – she has always called them how she sees them. I’m a Mac user too. Her issues with Mac processor speeds, OS responsiveness are completely legit. Actually, they are the same issues I have and that anyone, if they are honest, would have too.
I agree with Jay, Eugenia is like all of us. We each have our favorite OS I’m sure, but she has done some very good reviews considering what comes out of C|Net and the like. I don’t think she’s agree with everything I say, being a serious OSS/free software advocate, but from what I’ve read she knows what she’s talking about and her opinions are valid.
However I do not agree with Mike Bouma. Don’t delete posts. I can understand if the post is nothing bug garbage characters and four letter words, but if it conveys any ideas reguardless of if you agree with them or not, it is far more harmful (for all of us) to censor someone than it is to acknowledge their opinion and/or reply with your disagreement.
This is strike 1 for osnews.com as far as I’m concerned. Please don’t do it again.
> a, I know it’s possible the Barefeats guy could have done
> this – it just seemed like his casual way of saying how
> he did this was, well…a little too easy.
well… he (she?) says the Apple people “freaked”…
maybe if you are used to doing something, you start talking like it is so easy… happens all the time… try explaining your grandmother *how easy* it is to setup a printer with Rendezvous, and you’ll be greeted with the same face you had when reading that part
Come on now…
This Mac sucks/Windows sucks/Linux sucks is getting old.
To all Mac-heads… I’d say that macs getting bad vibes online all the time probably shows that the majority of users/potential users don’t appreciate the performance they get for the money they pay.
and the quality parts line I always hear…
I agree, the powerbook screens are AWESOME! Besides that, firewire, 802.11, and a different processor architecture, I don’t see what all the “quality” is all about. Is it the sleek casing? The GPU, memory, harddrive, oem’d mobo, etc just don’t seem like there’s much a different in the Intel side of computing. If we’re talking about hardware with scalability like Sun, or other server machines, I can understand.
“But the OS is the best”
I admit… the BSD core is.
The GUI looks slick, just wish the response wasn’t so slow.
Face it mac fans, I own a mac myself, and can honestly say… it’s pathetic that resizing even the latest “fast browser from Apple” (a.k.a. Safari) is dog slow when resizing the window. It’s pathetic that choosing menus appear as slow as XUL/Mozilla.
Admittedly, this is the iMac DV line, and I don’t have quartz extreme compatible video card to take advantage of the optimizations. However, considering even XFree86/KDE2.2 running on Debian/PPC was faster on the same hardware, I’d say the GUI needs more optimizations. Or, like the intel side of things, the processing power needs to negate the slowness of software.
I won’t be as extreme as to say that macs sucks. I think they’re great at making computing easier for the average joe. Everything is well integrated, and the UI does make sense (except its slowness). I think OS X is great (but I’m a little biased toward *NIX systems), but I feel System 9 series had a better GUI experience. But the performance for the machines are sub-par compared to cost. I’m sure amigans will be able to tell you that it shouldn’t require the processors of today to make a fast, efficient GUI. hell, even BeOS users will be able to tell you that. Dual PPC 133MHz giving the perception of speed better than current MacOS X is pathetic.
She’s BeOS’d!
I mean, come on, if there’s any special place in her heart, it is for that operating system. As far as I can tell, she’s always been very fair-minded to all the other, lesser operating systems in the computer world.
Yours truly,
Jeffrey Boulier
“Just say Yes! to Wang’s VS/OS!”
This thread is ridiculous.
There are maybe 2 posts on topic.
Let me say that I find the ibook 12inch powerbook benchmarks very troubling. There must be something out of whack.
However I do not agree with Mike Bouma.
That is allowed.
Don’t delete posts.
Childish name calling and personal attacks will be deleted. All moderators have agreed with Eugenia on this. If anyone don’t agree on how we run this website, anyone is free to move elsewhere.
IMO, ideally this website would also be moderated by its readers, with the moderators only deleting the most distasteful comments.
Hello Mike and other,
maybe all our posts should be modded down now, as they don’t regard the news item 🙂
Well, Mike, I have to agree with “C” on that. Even moderators are not innocent. I remember Mozilla related news, where I found Eugenia’s reactions absolutly inapropriate. Tell me – who is offended by what? I may be offended by rude wording, someone else by off-topic post, some other by spam etc etc.
If you think about it more deeply, modded down messages cause even more off topic messages 🙂
Well – but there is also some reason – as someone already said, there are modded down messages, which are just opinion expression. If you can’t be on pair and find enough arguments to reply, don’t mode such posts down!
In fact, if something distracts me from OSNews service, it is exactly the way of how are ppl’s opinions treated, and:
“If anyone don’t agree on how we run this website is, anyone is free to move elsewhere.”
… how typical … that is kind of answer I found arrogant …
I hope I will not be modded down now by expressin my opinion 🙂
Cheers,
-pekr-
maybe all our posts should be modded down now, as they don’t regard the news item 🙂
Personally I allow off topic postings, but only when they arrise spontaneously and non-intentionally. For instance this discussion with regard to moderations is IMO interesting, informative and useful to the readers.
Even moderators are not innocent.
Yes even the police make mistakes, must we disband them?
I remember Mozilla related news, where I found Eugenia’s reactions absolutly inapropriate
You are free to voice your opinions and so is anyone else. Also if I see another moderator producing unacceptable messages, I will mod these down as well. We are all people and we can all make mistakes.
I may be offended by rude wording, someone else by off-topic post, some other by spam etc etc.
This evaluation is up to the moderators and of course based on personal opinions. For instance I will only mod down rudely worded messages or messages including swearing.
Deleted messages are mostly those which include direct personal attacks and name calling. For instance: “Person X is a f****** a*****!”. Similar attacks on companies, products or goverments are IMO less important. For instance “Product X sucks!” will not be deleted by me, but the thread should not get out of hand and include some reasoning behind such thoughts.
there are modded down messages, which are just opinion expression.
Personally I will not mod down messages for given opinions, please give an example.
… how typical … that is kind of answer I found arrogant …
It is a fact, if you don’t agree with us moderating down distasteful comments you can move elsewhere. I would prefer this even above continuing personal attacks because some people disagree.
I hope I will not be modded down now by expressin my opinion 🙂
Duh?? Have you read any of my previous messages? For the last time, people are allowed to state whatever opinion they want, but please word them in a tasteful manner.
> Let me say that I find the ibook 12inch powerbook benchmarks
> very troubling. There must be something out of whack.
I remember when the first benchmarks for the “new” TiBook 15″ 1GHz came out… they were disgusting… it had WAY slower than a 800MHz TiBook.
Of course, it was just a matter of the reviewers being dumb enough to not check the “Power Options” on “System Preferences” (the exact name escapes me, I don’t have my iBook at hand)
On Mac laptops, you can control the CPU speed from the power settings (a la Intel SpeedStep) and by out-of-the-box it is set to “Less Performance, More Battery Life” when working with batteries AND when plugged in (or so I’m said)
You can change the option to “More Performance, Less Battery Life” to unleash the full potential of these machines. On the little iBook it really made a difference (but then, Battery Life goes from 6 to 4 hours
Of course, it was just a matter of the reviewers being dumb enough to not check the “Power Options” on “System Preferences”
Could it really have been such a dumb mistake ? I, myself find it a bit odd that the newer models would perform so slowly, there must have been a mistake. I dont own a mac (xcept old 68k nostalgy iron:), but i would think that a 1 Ghz G4 proc would be a bit faster …
To Mike:
Don’t let the trolls get you, we all have our bad days. I personally think you are a great mod. As far as Eug goes, apart from BEos (which i like verry much too), i dont think she is much biased.
To Everyone:
Lighten up, this board is meant for opinion SHARING, not to force it down one’s throat. I do wish we would all be a bit more carefull and sutble with eachother, this leads to senseless fights and disputes.
You can listen to me, or ignore me. That should be how it goes for all posts, the really offending ones WILL BE TAKEN CARE OF. This board is in good hands.
Take Care
Kevin
I don’t see how this article can be viewed as an attack on Apple…
1) It compares Apples to Apples, not a single PC fact, figure or reference to be seen.
2) The new 17″ system actually has quite impressive benchmarks (relative to the older units), with generally a much greater jump in performance than one might guess at from the processor speed increase.
3) The last bit is just the writer’s opinion, as he clearly states with the heading, but even there he doesn’t do any bashing. He says the 17″ is too big for him, and he personally feels that the 12″ should have a higher overall specification than it does.
I come to this site for technical news and to learn about OS and related technologies. It can also be interesting to learn about peoples personal views and preferences, but only when they are properly thought out, politely presented, and relevant to the article.
It is bad enough wading through flames and insults when somebody actually HAS said something to cause offence, it is even more frustrating and ridiculous when they have not. There have been times when I felt that Eugenia was out of line, this is in no way one of them.
So, perhaps we can try talking about what is shown on the article…
1) Does anybody have any idea what apart from the processor speed has improved in the 17″ system to give that performance increase?
2) Anybody in a position to comment on the rather poor performance of the 12″ system? Is it likely to be a configuration thing or is there some other explanation?
Well the 17″ Tibook is the first to have DDR ram, which does improve performance for memory intensive tasks. But the CPU for the 1ghz 15″ and 1ghz 17″ are the same, but if you take a look at the 12″ it only has 256k cache, not 1mb like the 15 and 17″. I do wish Apple would have put some of the features of the 17″ into the 15″, like the keyboard and DDR ram, because to me 17″ would be too much to haul around. But I would still consider getting the 17″.
Now, Apple has their niche of being an easy to use system that looks good, and I do have the same problem as many people that Apple’s G4 are a bit too slow for the price they sell them for. That is why I am not going to buy a notebook, TiBook, until they get more reasonable to me. And some of you are asking why not going save some money and find a nice x86? Well… I don’t like the windows GUI and I don’t like their business practices, so I shall not buy any of their products. *shurgs*
OK, so you throw “Eugenia” and “Apple” in the same story and all of a sudden a lot of trolls came out of the ether. How bad. Anyway, let’s go…
Does anybody have any idea what apart from the processor speed has improved in the 17″ system to give that performance increase?
I really don’t remember, but looks like the 17″ AlBook is using DDR while the 15″ is not. Anyway, it seems that they improved something on the mobo, but only a more thorough test can confirm this.
Stop it with the stupid comments about Eugenia! She is, by far and away, the most OS neutral person I can think of. No, really. She tells it like it is, this site tells it like it is. There are stories about Windows, Linux, the Mac, OS/2, BeOS. You name it, it’s here. I’ve been reading the site for a long time now (though only recently started commenting) and I’ve never been able to see a shred of bias.
People who say OSNews/Eugenia is anti-mac, or pro-microsoft or pro or anti anything need to get some perspective. The Mac is not perfection brought from heaven to earth by Saint Jobs, it’s a platform like any other, and this site treats it as such. Stupid flames and name calling will be moderated, and I agree with this policy 100%, it makes the site far more pleasant to read.
Good grief, this article didn’t even compare performance to a PC and still people complain
Read this entire thread and you can tell why she has left us……I wouldn’t waste my time on you fucks anymore either.
> Microshit sucks! There software is VERY poorly written and they
> came to power by bullying smaller companies.
Your mouth should be washed out with soap for talking that way, period. You and the rather fanatical poster who tried to defend Eugenia by doing exactly what the trolls wanted him to do – come off like a total idiot and tarnish the reputation of the site.
> I suppose it could have been any one of the AntiMac admins on this site
You are very quick to label people you do not even know as biased and “slanted” yet provide no proof of your claims. Your words are as devoid of intellectual content as Apple’s so-called megahertz myth.
> but i just assumed it was Eugenia based on her previous news post
> choices to the front page and comments on these boards… both of
> which tend to have a negative (towards Apple) slant.
Eugenia does not have a negative slant towards Apple. The only thing that would please the Mac faithful would be an endless stream of comments praising the Mac and putting down the “PeeCee.” This is not OSXNews. Every time the Mac’s price/performance ratio is brought into question, the Mac users whine and complain. It is very rare to find a Mac thread where the Mac users spend the vast majority of their time talking positively about Macs instead of negatively about PCs.
> It seems to me that sites displaying news from only a handful of
> editors or news pieces from a similar select handful of journalists
> tend to be outside of the common from of thinking with regard to
> most technology enthusiests.
Do your comments bear any relation to reality? Where do you get terms like “similar select handful of journalists”? Either you are a horrible mutation with hundreds of fingers, or you have seriously underestimated the number of authors whose articles are linked to by the OSNews staff.
There are sites run by people who have a grudge against Apple, but this is not one of them.
> OSNews is a perfect example of this problem in action.
By “this problem” do you mean only posting articles from a gigantic, hundred-fingered handful of journalists or your own posting?
> Eugenia is so pro microsoft…You can sense it in her writing.
In other words you have no way to discuss it rationally – you have to just feel it.
> When she rants about defending MS
One cannot simultaneously rant about defending MS and have your so-called “pro-Microsoft” slant. Do you mean that she rants about *having* to defend MS from a bunch of whiners with very poor manners and entirely too much time on their hands?
> Did a article search at Cnet on that author that slammed Apple’s new books.
Oh, that proves he is bad. He slammed something that you liked. Bad, bad writer!
> The first 100 of his articles came back with 2 negative Apple stories and the rest were positive MS and Intel stories.
If we assume that your numbers are correct, then the correct conclusion is that person does not find anything in Macs compelling enough that would justify using one. Seeing as how Macs have only a 2% to 2.5% market share, he is not in the minority, and his opinions are not surprising. Apple charges a premium for outdated hardware and tries to make up for the high prices by providing software that is admittedly good but not quite good enough to justify the cost. You are kidding yourself if you think that most enthusiasts actually praise Apple for the hardware.
> And why is this article about OSes ? Sounds like hardware too me.
> Can’t wait to read the new benchmark’s on HP’s laptops here too!
> Brother.
Why do you say that this article is being billed about operating systems? Has the title/description been changed, or are you trying to start a fight by blasting the site for problems that do not exist?
> It gets even worse when she )and other admins on this site0 start
> deleting comments that they disagree with.
Perhaps they would not delete comments that they disagree with if the people making those comments had the minimal prequisite intelligence to create posts that did not flagrantly violate the posting rules.
> Uh oh… you shouldn’t have said that…that one’s SURELY going
> to get modded down
Why? It complies with the posting rules. It does not contain mindless, out-of-the-blue personal attacks, copious amounts of profanity, whining, or other things which have no intellectual value whatsoever *and* encourage other such posts that merely bog the entire thread down with worthless comments. You have managed to make comments that while complying with the posting rules have the (unfortunately) common quality of being absolutely worthless, but they have not been modded down because they do not encourage others to make similar posts.
And Mike Bouma is anything *but* a PC sympathizer. IIRC I he is an Amiga enthusiast. 😉
> Yes, and coincidentally rarely do we ever see anything positive.
> Typically its either Bad or neutral. Yet on the other hand we
> find Pro MS and Intel stores all the time. It’s somewhat
> suggestive… wouldn;t you think?
No, if Eugenia had posted one article about Microsoft that did not blame Microsoft for something Mac users would be leveling the same charges and have many times in the past.
> That’s funny… i just had a post deleted today.
Your post was deleted for a reason that had nothing to do with your personal preference of Macs.
> Regardless… posts should NEVER be deleted
I disagree. Some comments have no value whatsoever and merely serve to degrade even the modded down comments. Besides, there needs to be some punishment for people who post such messages.
> but rather modded down ONLY if they contina flamable worthless comments… like those at the top of this thread.
So there should be a special subsection of the site for Mac discussions? Just kidding… 😉
> I want front page news for the news pieces I submit… not something
> burried in the forums.I’ve submitted SEVERAL (well into the hundreds)
> pro Apple news stories to OS News and have only got one of them posted
In the first place, we can only take your word for it. In the second place, the stories have to be good. I doubt that OSNews would accept stories that write off the Mac’s price/performance problems with “megahertz don’t matter,” “these are lightning-fast supercomputers,” “x86 is old and slow,” and other marketing sleights of hand that fly in the face of both massive amounts of empirical evidence and common knowledge. Such stories belong on a Mac news site because they are only useful to people who have already bought Macs.
> I’ve done all I can do. Bitching is all I have left.
“bitching” is never a good thing. Even if you have been wronged, lurking in the comments sections and posting degrading remarks about the site is not very productive for you or the Mac community.
> There is something strange about this story. At the Apple booth, they
> let him swap drives (and he happened to have a drive that had these
> real life apps on it), download XBench and was able to not only run
> the tests but also get fabulous screenshots of them. I don’t know, I
> guess it’s true, but it’s kind of hazy in its reality.
I could also argue that the people milling around the vicinity of the Apple booth would react negatively if a certain member of the press complained loudly about being disallowed from running benchmarks on the showcased hardware.
> This is strike 1 for osnews.com as far as I’m concerned. Please don’t
> do it again.
This is strike 1 for c. The possibility of having your posts deleted is clearly listed in the terms of posting. Disagreeing with whether posts should be deleted is fine, but blaming them for following their own (clearly visible) rules is not.
> Admittedly, this is the iMac DV line, and I don’t have quartz extreme
> compatible video card to take advantage of the optimizations. However,
> considering even XFree86/KDE2.2 running on Debian/PPC was faster on
> the same hardware, I’d say the GUI needs more optimizations. Or, like
> the intel side of things, the processing power needs to negate the
> slowness of software.
Not likely. Because of the way the OS X GUI is designed, it must store and move around massive quantities of pixels. This gives sluggish performance now compared to other systems, but as bit depth and resolution do not scale nearly as fast as video card performance it would seem to be a good fit for future systems.
> Childish name calling and personal attacks will be deleted. All
> moderators have agreed with Eugenia on this.
Ha! It *is* a conspiracy! LOL
> IMO, ideally this website would also be moderated by its readers, with
> the moderators only deleting the most distasteful comments.
Kind of like Slashdot…at times.
> Well, Mike, I have to agree with “C” on that. Even moderators are not
> innocent. I remember Mozilla related news, where I found Eugenia’s
> reactions absolutly inapropriate. Tell me – who is offended by what? I
> may be offended by rude wording, someone else by off-topic post, some
> other by spam etc etc.
The moderators are not innocent, and sometimes they do engage in the same things as the people whose comments they mod down or delete. However, this is rather rare, and it only comes as a result of a big build up of posts bashing the site for no reason other than personal resentment. I realize of course that this does not justify such behavior, but it does explain it a little, and it would not be accurate to equate the moderators with the trolls.
> If you think about it more deeply, modded down messages cause even
> more off topic messages
But only so long as people are determined to discuss censorship.
> … how typical … that is kind of answer I found arrogant …
Do you think that the moderators find the seemingly endless posts telling them how to run the site arrogant? Do you think that those OSNews readers who want nothing from the site but good technical information and discussion should desire to see messages that are thoroughly devoid of useful content modded down?
> I hope I will not be modded down now by expressin my opinion
Only if you express it in a way that threatens to degrade the discussion into a flame war.
According to some screen shots of similar PowerBooks displayed at the Mac Expo SF (probably the same units that were tested in this article) over at http://www.macrumors.com, the new units are running OS X 10.2.4 This is, IMHO, probably to support the Firewire 800 and Airport Extreme. However, this version of OS X has not yet been released, not even for developer testing. Perhaps 10.2.4 still runs a lot of debug code which accounts for the 17″ Powerbook running slower than a 15″ Powerbook running the more polished 10.2.3
Just a thought…
The quality of the discussion of articles on this site has really gone downhill. And what is it about Apple-related articles that makes the collective IQ around here plummet? I think I’ll refrain from hitting the “comments” link from now on and just stick to arstechnica.
What is it with Mac zelots, they don’t seem to have a kind word for anybody who doesn’t agree that Mac’s are just wonderful…pc envy?
I keep telling myself to un-bookmark this site but the glutton for punishment keeps bringing me here … Bring on the hate!!!
As Steve Jobs is my shepherd, I shall not want!
BTW … where are the articles that talk about how web browsing on the Mac doesn’t suck anymore because of Safari? (Chimera can get close to Safari but only if you get the nightlies, something beyond the patience of 99% of end users but Safari is easy for all OS X Mac users to install.) For a year we had to listen to people rip on the Mac’s browsing speeds cuz IE for Mac is a piece of #$@# but now that Apple fixes the problem no one mentions it! One day Steve Jobs will bring lightning down from the sky and punish the unbelievers!!!!!!!! =P
It was not a Mac Zealot that started the nastiness in this thread, it was the first two posts (the first one now mod’ed) that said nothing more important than “Macincrap” and the second (which somehow was NOT mod’ed down) that simply said “Not your fault Mac’s suck”.
But somehow, the Mac Zealots get blamed again.
Marklar: I suppose it could have been any one of the AntiMac admins on this site, but i just assumed it was Eugenia based on her previous news post choices to the front page and comments on these boards… both of which tend to have a negative (towards Apple) slant.
Eugenia has “retired”. She still posts stories, but she is hardly here. Besides, Eugenia rarely has anything nice to say about Linux. Yet does she mod down guys like Rayiner and me? Nope. Why? we never insult she and the site.
This site isn’t anti-Mac. They post pro-Mac articles, anti-Mac articles, and articles that have nothing to do with the Mac. Eugenia never let her opinion get in the way of her mods.
Besides, as for she being anti-Mac, she has a Cube. She was the one, IIRC, to make packages for SDL games to the Mac. She gave a rather positive review on OS X 10.2 (comparing with other OS reviews). She is the least biased person I have met.
Yeah, Macs are expensive. That’s her opinion, and that’s true, particulary for desktops. The same can be said about speed. She says Macs are slow and OS X is unresponsive. But go to any Mac forum you would see complains similar to hers by Mac users.
It seems to me that sites displaying news from only a handful of editors or news pieces from a similar select handful of journalists tend to be outside of the common from of thinking with regard to most technology enthusiests.
How do you know what technology enthusiests like? How do you know what they want? You have done a survey? Or making a mere opinion based on no facts? if OSNews’ editor’s opinion is so unpopular, why isn’t the site unpopular as well?
Think about that. Besides, most of the articles I sent Eugenia and got posted here are articles contradicting to Eugenia’s opinion.
Jonathan: You can sense it in her writing. When she rants about defending MS, I try and visualize George Costanza’s mother screaming at the top of her head, “Don’t you talk about Microsoft that way!”
If you can’t stand it, try to defend your arguments against her’s, not say she is pro-Microsoft. For example, when you bring up the Be v. Microsoft case, she supports Be while most MS defenders support MS.
Jonathan: You asked, so I’ll answer. I really don’t care. I never had much patience with people that say they are one thing, when they believe something else.
Why? Is Eugenia like that? I clash with Eugenia on much of her opinions, but never seen her as a liar of sorts.
Marklar: I wondered if and when anyone would ever catch that.
I caught that when you first started posting here. But never bothered to mention it.
Marklar: Uh oh… you shouldn’t have said that…that one’s SURELY going to get modded down
Why, did it go against the rules? Did you even read the rules? If you are so anti-OSNews, why are you here?
Marklar: That’s funny… i just had a post deleted today.
And why must it be Eugenia to delete the posts? Not David Adams? Jon Jenson? Somebody else?
Marklar: Regardless… posts should NEVER be deleted, but rather modded down ONLY if they contina flamable worthless comments… like those at the top of this thread.
http://osnews.com/moderation.php?news_id=2520
Reading your post, it is a no-brainer that you were the one in the wrong. Most of your posts in threads other than those connected to Apple are mostly, sorry to say, conaining flamable worthless comments.
Marklar: I want front page news for the news pieces I submit… not something burried in the forums.I’ve submitted SEVERAL (well into the hundreds) pro Apple news stories to OS News and have only got one of them posted
If you think they are going to post every form of Apple propoganda on this site, you are dead wrong. For the past two weeks, I have been regularing to Mac news sites, and I can imagine why most of the articles you sent never got posted.
The same reason why most Windows propoganda, Linux propoganda etc. aren’t posted.
You want your opinion on the site? Write your own article. Send it in.
Marklar: ? Polite conversation
Nobody could have ever guessed that from your posts here.
Marklar: ? Reaing balanced operating system news
Most of the world think Macs are overpriced and expensive. That’s balance, don’t you think?
Well, your form of balance means must post as much pro-Apple news as possible.
Marklar: ? Mean People
You get turned off looking at the mirror?
Marklar: ? Reaing unbalanced operating system news
Right. News that caters to everyone instead of pro-Apple news. Unbalanced.
c: it is far more harmful (for all of us) to censor someone than it is to acknowledge their opinion and/or reply with your disagreement.
I think it is far more harmful to become like Slashdot where in most stories, at least 1/2 the posts are really really trolish/flamebaiting/off topic in nature.
Mike Bouma: IMO, ideally this website would also be moderated by its readers, with the moderators only deleting the most distasteful comments.
But right now, I advice against such an idea. At least until we have a login system. I mean is that a troll can easily mod his story up, all he needs to do is use different accounts.
Petr Krenzelok: which are just opinion expression.
If they like to express their opinions, they are better off doing it without insulting a group of users or a person. That’s defamation, not opinion.
Like the first post, the pee one.
That’s not a opinion.
Actually, the “Macs suck” comment came from a regular. If you were a regular too, you would know his story well (his bad experience with a Mac he bought). IIRC, he also post it here, but not as detailed as before. So since the moderators knows his background, there is little reason to mod.
Well, I know when I’m beat. My suspicions about the casualness of the Barefeats person getting the benchmarks have been neutralized by reasonable arguments. LOL, I concede!!
“If anyone don’t agree on how we run this website is, anyone is free to move elsewhere.”
I guess I’ll take my comments elsewhere, then.
good luck
< i>So since the moderators knows his background, there is little reason to mod[/i]
You have got to be joking right? Are you suggesting that it is okay for a few priveleged ones (the ones that somehow EARN it) to be blessed by the mod’ers? So they have a ‘right’ to post inflamatory remarks without fear of being mod’ed?
I hadn’t realized there existed a heirarchy. Forgive me. When will I EARN my wings and are allowed, someday, to post the fact the I abhore and detest Windows (from my own experience over SEVERAL years) without fear of being mod’ed ? Can you tell me that Rajan R? Have I NOT earned it too?
Does it not sicken you that some people can post something as dribble as “Don’t hate yourself, not your fault Macs suck” as the SOLE content of their post and have ppl like you come out and tell me “Oh no, he has the right to say that because he had a bad experience with his, he is then cleared to say anything he wants”
I’ve seen a number of your posts over the past six months or so that I’ve been lurking here and you’ve have some very convincing arguments in the past on various topics, but I just can’t agree with you on this one.
I’m repulsed.
“If anyone don’t agree on how we run this website is, anyone is free to move elsewhere”
I think this is not a good way of arguing with dummy people who makes stupid claims. Not that they have any credible claim , but the statement is rude to every visitor on the site and devalues the site and the owner Mike. Obviously such an attitude will likely cause visitors to back off a little.
If you come regulary here, and post you frustrations with Windows so many times that other regulars know it by hard, I think moderators would act more leniently than to completely new users that say “Mac sucks” whom the regulars and the moderators don’t know the story behind that comment.
Life isn’t perfect, don’t expect it to be.
This is my theory on how moderators mod posts down. Doesn’t mean I agree with it.
Where in the Fuk did all the normal people go?
All I keep reading in the F-ing forums is Apple-bashing this and MS-bashing that…
Will all of you F-ing pimple-faced 13 years old get the hell out of here!!!!
@ moshek
Does it not sicken you that some people can post something as dribble as “Don’t hate yourself, not your fault Macs suck”
That posting is now modded down as well. I should stress that I do these moderations within my own spare time. I do have a fulltime job myself. It can happen that I miss some comments.
This specific comment wasn’t a direct personal attack on anyone, thus IMO no reason for deletion. However the posting was a little low on content, so can well be modded down without problems.
@ Sergio
but the statement is rude to every visitor on the site and devalues the site
IMO it doesn’t, it just states a simple fact. We don’t put chains around people’s ankles. If you like this free service we provide, anyone is most welcome here on OSNews. If people continue to abuse our rules here on OSNews, they can go elsewhere. And if need to be, will eventually be banned.
Well obviously it is a fact, but saying that fact to your visitors is rude. I am not saying it is not a fact, it is rude. If you state that fact, then people will feel they are not welcome there. When a visitor comes to your home, do you state the fact that if they do certain things in your home, they will be kicked out of your home. Try to say that to your next visitor, and see how he/she reacts. Not that I care much, but simply my 2 cents for you.
I am not saying it is not a fact, it is rude. If you state that fact, then people will feel they are not welcome there.
I do not agree, the comments were directed towards those who do not like the free service we provide. And actually those people who continue to abuse OSNews and whine about /accuse and insult the people running this website, aren’t really welcome.
So those are the only people who should not feel welcomed. Personally, I get very tired about all those attacks on Eugenia. She beyond anyone else has made OSNews what it is today. If it weren’t for her, 99% of the people who visit us today wouldn’t come here at all.
Somebody pointed out that the 12″ mac doesn’t have DDR Memory, it does, its just a little slower, it runs at 266 not 333 like the 17″ model.
Its a shame they didn’t update the 15″ models and its a shame they didn’t include the 1ghz processor in the 12″ model (maybe an upgrade later) and include the 1MB cache (another upgrade) or have the fibre optic keyboard as well,(whats the point in keeping it out).
I wanted the 12″ powerbook but looking at it now i think it is a mistake to buy it based on the benchmarks. Why didn’t they include the cache? I would of bought the 12″ model because of its size and weight, why should that model be denied those features.
Anyway with the possible G5 coming from IBM i’m thinking i should hold onto my cash and wait for the enivitable upgrade .
If not the upgrade, just a cheaper model, saving you some money in the short term, the cheapest laptop is still reasonable for its price.
I was going to switch, but not now, not yet.