“I’m tired of reading on an almost monthly basis articles asserting that Linux isn’t yet ready for the desktop. Nonsense! Linux is about as ready for the desktop as Windows is. It’s simply a matter of corporate and user inertia that’s keeping Linux marginalized.” Read the editorial at NewsForge.
Linux not Ready for the Desktop? Give me a Break!
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
It’s not only linux (or whatever) that should be ready. YOU. You get ready. 😉
and the year is 2003!
“I don’t understand people’s usability requirements for a general desktop system! The problem is the USERS, not LINUX!”
I’m really happy with Windows XP + cygwin. And the more I use VisualStudio.NET and C#, the more I like them.
But, I guess that makes me just another assimilated drone, eh? I just don’t “get” Linux?
It’s exactly that attitude that prevents Linux from becoming a better desktop operating system. I ran BeOS only for years, then I gave Linux (Mandrake 8.something) a good chance… between six and nine months. It never gelled on my systems (P2 333 Dell laptop, dual P2 350, dual P3 666), things were constantly not-quite-working 100% properly, and things were constantly bugging me. I bailed and never looked back.
I do keep an eye out for a usable desktop UNIX (hey, I used to work for QNX), but nobody seems to get it right. And hey, I need my gaming (and fully-functional OpenGL).
– chrish
Under the right conditions (the right distro, supported hardware, the right software available, someone with experience with the OS, etc.), Linux works just as well as a desktop as any other operating system.
Those conditions happen to be easier to achieve with Windows at this time, but things are changing.
Linux won’t be ready for the mainstream desktop until 2 things happen.
1) You never have to use a command prompt / console.
2) Apps are easy to install. (IE like on windows point and click installable.)
It’s close, but not yet. When you buy the latest hardware and it does’nt work with linux, it’s not ready. When there isn’t software to support your hardware, it isn’t ready. If linux had the support of all hardware vendors and software developers like windows has, then it will be ready.
It is like people know what to do, but keep talking, & talking. We need action, put ads in normal cumputer magezines. How can a windows user know about linux if it is not mentioned in anything other thay linux magezines & sites? If I had the resourses I would do something, you guys aren’t.
no, captain denial. your os IS NOT ready for the desktop. lose the command line, and standardize on install/uninstall format and maybe you’ll get somewhere.
no, captain denial. your os IS NOT ready for the desktop. lose the command line, and standardize on install/uninstall format and maybe you’ll get somewhere.
Great minds think alike
The right combination of hardware/distro/user, it’s as ready as anything else! A total system-upgrade is as easy as typing “emerge sync && emerge world”, and for those who can’t stand the command-line, you can use the GUI-based kportage instead. This is definetly just as easy as windows-update, and I can even upgrade distro-versions the same way. How’s that compared to upgrading let’s say win98 -> winXP? I definetly think things are ready (I’m using the gentoo (www.gentoo.org) distro by the way).
I agree on some things that have to be better before the mainstream could switch. KDE or Gnome (preferable KDE =)) should win the wm-manager-war, and become standard on every mainstream distro. Package-systems should get a standard (preferably portage w/ good GRP-support (pre-compiled). Mainstream-users dont want to compile things themself.. Printer-setings need standardization (preferably CUPS), and printing should be drag/drop from every application (Maybe it already is? (I dont own a printer). If things could standardize this way there really shouldn’t matter to much for a user which flavour (distro) she’s running, but “power-users” would stand free to choose whatever window-manager, printing-protocol, etc, they want. I think the standardization-thing is the most important part for making the John Doe run Linux. A migrating windows-user get’s confused of the term “window-manager”.
From the last time I used linux a couple years ago, linux needs a consistent interface. Maybe get rid of the 50,000 different distros and get some standards, bring in some good user interface consultants.
Also, just because there ARE applications available for a specific task, doesn’t mean that they are good, or even meet a users needs. This goes for any OS.
> 1) You never have to use a command prompt / console.
I still use the Windows command prompt (ping, ipconfig, net use). Does that mean Windows isn’t ready? Windows even encourages you to make a console only boot disk. (Stretching a little here, but) compare that to a Linux LiveCD (like Knoppix) where you get your whole GUI from a boot disk (no install).
Generally, I’ll agree on point 2, although I haven’t looked at the graphical frontends for apt/rpm/emerge/etc lately, because I’m generally comfortable without them (but I am NOT saying that should be the general case).
Linux isn’t ready for the desktop and probably never will be, the reasons why have been gone over thousands of times. If a person lacks the intuition to understand why, then it is probable that no amount of explaining will make them understand the human-usability factor of computing.
Btw, Osnews seems to be posting more controversial articles; page-views a la zdnet style?
First off.
Ready for what desktop? home user? Corp dektop? CAD users? multimedia creators? Telecom industry?
Do you really think that Windows is the perfect tool for all of the above? I didn’t think so!
Linux (as well as other UNIX’es) are just far more powerful than win. If a Linux vendor really wanted to create a desktop system for Joe User from Linux/GNU he could! Casue everything is there – he would just have to integrate it all into a proper desktop system! At the moment no distro is really doing that, they all try to be both a server and a desktop, they throw in tons of apps instead of integrating the nice desktop apps into a proper desktop system.
Secondly
The definition of what a desktop system is or should be and how the writers of these articles present them is all just infected. They are all infected by what windows looks like today and base their opinion of how good some distro imitates windows. I for one are for more at home in a UNIX environmnet because Im used to work in such an environment. I would never give up my powerful Ultra10 for a less competent windows box, never! But its all about personal preferences and what you’re more comfortable working with.
Thirdly(?)
Giving up the command line??? Now really, this swill never happen. Why? Because working on the commandline is just soo much faster and efficient than the pointing/clicking way of working.
Regards /jens
>Btw, Osnews seems to be posting more controversial articles;
We will just be ants in the desert if we were without balls to speak up.
And what does that suppose to mean anyway? You didn’t agreed with that author? So what? What about yesterday’s flame fest on my red hat article that I was advocating the exact opposite of what this author says?
In short: OSNews allows all voices and opinions to be heard. If that is “controversial” for you, then that’s what it is.
off topic: does anyone have trouble loading osnews pages (loading half way and stuff) or posting comments?
Just when you think all the “Linux is not ready” articles are pointless as they point out the blatantly obvious another Gentoo user states Linux is desktop ready. Maybe I should consider taking up a heavy addiction to crack. Honestly, I think it comes down to a sort of religious belief. I would just love to hand my Gentoo disk to someone, anyone and say “here, this is a replacement for Windows, you shouldn’t have much trouble with it”.
Linux is not ready the general public until it matches windows xp for features, hardware/software support, and strinkwrap apps. Until then, there is no reason for the general public to switch.
What’s more important is to just use whatever OS gets the job done for you at a price you can afford.
Linux won’t be ready for the mainstream desktop until 2 things happen.
1) You never have to use a command prompt / console.
2) Apps are easy to install. (IE like on windows point and click installable.)
I can’t comment on number one because I personally don’t think it is a requirement. I use the command line all the time (even on Windows) and I like it that way.
As for number two, Several distributions already offer an installer superior to Windows setup.exe files. Most Windows users like them because they are used to them. However, OS X offers a more elegant solution as does package tools like apt (accessed via Synaptic if you want a GUI).
Comparing apt to setup.exe, there is no comparison. Apt has more functionality and is easier to use.
If you want to set up 10 Windows programs, you click on setup.exe 10 different times, answer a bunch of lame questions, and most of the time reboot between each. Using apt, I select the 10 applications I want, I may or may not be asked a couple of simple questions (usually not), and I’m done. No rebooting either.
If I want to upgrade 10 Windows programs, I again have to click on setup.exe 10 different times. With apt, they are automatically updated when I perform the equivilent to a “Windows Update” (apt-get update && apt-get upgrade – or a couple of clicks in Synaptic).
If I want to delete a program in Windows, I have to go into control panel, find the app I want to delete, usually I get asked if I want to delete a bunch of “unused” DLLs (which often times are in fact being used), then I have to read the details of all the registry keys, directories, and files that uninstall couldn’t delete, choose to ignore them or manually delete them, and then often times reboot. With apt, I just tell it what I want removed and it gets removed.
If you would like to give some examples of how setup.exe is easier, I’d be happy to entertain them, but in my mind, people are used to setup.exe and therefore they want the same system on Linux. Since setup.exe is NOT the best way to do things (as has been made apparent on BeOS, MacOS, OS X, and now Linux), I suggest people learn a better way of doing installs.
If you are talking, however, about compiling source code. I agree with you. Fortunately, that really hasn’t been the preferred means of installing software on Linux for a long time.
I use Linux for developing applications and I like it a lot, its better for me than Windows. If Windows with its crappy games and spyware is more to your liking, then fine, use it. And I hate all these “What Linux needs to be ready for the desktop lists”. I like X11, I like the command line, and I like things the way they are. I don’t want to standardize on one distro, I don’t want a setup.exe, and I don’t want spyware.
My favorite part.
As for number two, Several distributions already offer an installer superior to Windows setup.exe files
I quit reading this right here. You’re fired.
> until it matches windows xp for features
Matches? Like in total number? It probably already does, they just aren’t the same ones. If you meant matches like having the exact same ones, there’s not much point is there. One person’s ease of use feature is another person’s security hole.
Linux might be ready for your desktop, but not mine.
Driver support is gay, some drivers (hell, most) require recompilation of non-trivial amounts of crucial software.
Xfree is still a performance bottleneck, as Linus Torvalds himself has proclaimed. Linus runs 4-way machines for his “desktop” with more power than all six of my computers, and he can’t get his Linux distro to run a smooth GUI. Please tell me why any average user would expect any kind of reasonable performance when even the great guru can’t do it?
Inconsistent UI behaviour pisses off anybody but a true open sores zealot.
Although the kernel might be stable, the rest of the crap piled on top sure isn’t – see Xfree and thousands of apps for examples. I can make your supposedly superior “desktop” crash at will simply by normal usage. This does not inspire confidence in Linux because lost work is lost work whether the kernel actually unloads or not. The only distro I’ve not tried is Debian, so the above may not apply; however, it appears that the Debian installer is a relic from 1982, as is the rest of Debian itself. As much as I enjoy legacy operating systems, the world at large does not use them for a number of excellent reasons.
Hardware support under Linux is abysmal, and anybody who claims differently is either abnormally credulous or else a filthy liar. Plagued with shoddy drivers, it’s a wonder that any of the vocal 0.1% of people who use Linux have the inclination to espouse Linux as a daily-use desktop system.
Linux was designed from day one to be a UNIX clone. UNIX was *not* designed with user-friendliness in mind, nor can it even become user friendly without departing from the UNIX vision. Linux might make a nice server OS but it’s the worst thing going for the desktop right now.
Linux will takeover the Desktop the same way MS replaced Apple. Some company will figure out they can make more money selling lots of deeply discounted Linux boxes than they can over-priced Windows machines.
> over-priced Windows machines.
eMachines and the cheap dell boxes are not overpriced.
More over, having 2000-3000 engineers working full time on an OS, does NOT come cheap. Windows has a price and that price is quite good actually. Be,Inc. back in the day had estimated that they should have sell BeOS for $450 US in order to just come even!!
As for Linux being developed for free, I suggest you check your facts better, and see WHO is sponsoring WHO to code today, and then get into account all these companies that their business are around Linux and they contribute lots of code, and surprise, THESE engineers ALSO get paid, as the MS engineers also do.
Nothing happens for free. And if it does get coded for completly free as the case was before the 1998 era, then quality is not near as good, because none of these Joe Devs care to learn to use the damned debugger or how to use a profiler and FIX their bugs. They only want to add new features.
I’ve been using Mandrake since 8.0, fooled with SuSe and RedHat, and will try Gentoo later, and Linux is and has been ready for the desktop! What are you whiners crying about? Can’t you use a web browser, or is it e-mail, office suites, games or what? I use all of these things in Linux and I am not missing anything! I have a total usable desktop with all the apps I need and then some. Instead of just saying “Linux is not ready for the desktop” as a blanket statement give some goddamn examples of things that need done!
“From the last time I used linux a couple years ago, linux needs a consistent interface. Maybe get rid of the 50,000 different distros and get some standards, bring in some good user interface consultants.”
Did you say Standards and consistancy in the same paragraph? Say it aint so! /end sarcasm.
“eMachines and the cheap dell boxes are not overpriced. :
I’d rather have no computer than have anohter emachine. I’ve had two of them, both of them were horrible machines made with inferior components. This was a few years ago, but I will never buy an emachine again. I’ve had nothing but trouble with them. The harddrive didn’t even last 6 months.
The dell computers seem to be pretty good, i’ve never had any problems with them.
No, but when I click back on the browser toolbar in IE to go back to the front page – I am brought back to a previously updated cover page (not the one I came from). I suspect that this is an IE issue – as I have no problem in moz or galeon.
The dell computers seem to be pretty good, i’ve never had any problems with them.
The lower priced Dell Precision workstations (i.e. $430 for 2.53GHz P4, 128MB RAM, 60GB WD HDD, 48X CD-RW) are very nice, although they could use a little more RAM. Regardless, they run completely silent (except for their optical drives) and uses Intel components for everything.
Hi to all the softie droids that seem to hang out here and jump on anything that says Linux is ready for the desktop. How is Bill doing folks? Is it payday yet?
We hear the usual reasons why Linux is not ready like:
Poor installers
Poor package managers
Poor documentation
Poor hardware support
etc.
but frankly theres much more.
Take Nautilus in Gnome 2.2 in RH9 for instance. It looks kind of nice and appears to be extremely useful… until you REALLY USE IT. Most linux users are using the command line for file management. Some use Nautilus occassionally but not with the abuse that Windows users use Explorer. There are major usability problems with it such as drags not engaging unless you act slowly and deliberately (no it’s not a matter of changing your mouse settings, there are timing issues in Nautilus). There’s no easy way of deleting a file without moving it to the trash. Delete key does not work to delete a file (have to open a menu). Tree view does not always track your location in the tree. Settings often are not stored (like the settings to view as list or icons). Other hierarchical file systems are cryptic to get to (smb for example). Windows users at least have Map Drive. It’s not customizable enough. Messing up a file association can render all apps/icons to open in a text editor instead of launching.
This is just one example that regular users would have trouble with. There are countless usability problems that remind me of the Windows 3.1 days when things sort of worked but you had to be careful about how you do things. OSX and XP are way more doofus prone than Linux (well gnome and kde I guess).
To all the guys that say Linux isn’t ready yet…you’re right. It isn’t ready for *you* yet. It’s been ready for *me* for about 4 years, and I’m not even that “hardcore” of a Linux user. I do, however, have the time to figure things out (which I respectfully admit that others don’t).
Basically, you all seem to want to plop in a CD, click a few buttons, and have a working system with a familiar, consistent desktop. Try Xandros. I hear it can do that.
You also want the new hardware to work…that’s not our fault, it’s just the way it is. Hardware takes time to get drivers written for it (the OEMs don’t usually contract drivers for Linux). If and when the rest of Linux gets “ready” for most of you skeptics out there that love to put our efforts to shame, then I urge you to start using Linux, and then you’ll see some bleeding edge hardware support.
Linux is “ready” for a lot of corporations that can set up a system that *don’t want* users to change it much. They can set up the applications, and train employees for their setup. That’s what RedHat specifically is going for.
To the Gentoo zealot that just couldn’t contain his overwhelming excitement for his distro: the people that say Linux isn’t “ready” are waiting for Mandrake, Lycoris, RH, Lindows, Xandros, etc. to get there. Gentoo aims at the power user, not the newbie. As does debian, except debian makes a great platform for a good distro because it’s package management system is superior to most others.
Basically, I’m saying the debate for “is Linux ready yet?” is fairly silly, since it’s ready for some, and not ready for others. Machines that come with well-tested hardware and Mandrake or Lindows bundled in are probably very usable for a lot of people, and certain computers would be completely unusable without Windows being pre-installed to other folks.
I love the “there are no good applications for Linux” argument. I used to say almost the same about Windows: “there are no good applications for Windows…all the good ones were ‘shareware.'” I used to hate playing games with my clock to get Paintshop Pro to not lockdown after 30 days. I don’t know if this has gotten better, and if it has, I would bet it’s mostly OSS that has been ported.
This guy has lost contact with the real world and we are just presented with oh, so Linux-geek’s wishful thinking. The only good thing this article does is it starts the old war us vs. them, who ever you may be.
. Instead of just saying “Linux is not ready for the desktop” as a blanket statement give some goddamn examples of things that need done
Have you read the articles & some of these messages>
Well, the author first seems to be heading for the fatal point, and the proceeds to run straight past it.
Linux desn’t have the same support from users and industry, and lacks the inertia of Windows. And Linux being Linux, it needs that very inertia in order to actually become viable.
Linux advocates should get over their fascination with Windows. Windows is bloody far from perfect. What makes it everyone’s choice is one particular thing; inertia. It isn’t as consistent or polished as the Mac. It’s got loose bits and pieces dangling everywhere, but at least it’s got such an overwhelming support, that it manages to get past that cosmetic obstacle. Linux hasn’t got any comparable support, so any flaws are so much more apparent.
you people that say a desktop system should not use the command line are idiots… i use the command line in windows all the time, mostly for network diagnostics.
i even use dos FTP on occasion…
like many have said b4, use the best tool for the job. and the command line is definetly the best tool for lots of jobs, no matter how fancy your GUI is, some things are just done faster on the shell.
Ready to be dumped. Why ? Because it’s useless bull shit.
wow….lets see…youre wrong on just about everything. Drivers…..I dont understand you here. Ive got better driver support a lot of times in Linux out of the box than with windows. I just installed a bleeding edge Asus nforce2 motherboard with all the trimmings and everything works fine in the latest linux distros (windows had to be reinstalled when I added this board). Some ppl may desire somthing better than xfree, but in truth Xfree 4.3 runs fine……really, Ive got no real complaints. As far as crashes, lol, thats some funny stuff. I recently switched from SuSE to Gentoo, but over the last 1.5+ years Ive run SuSE 7.3, 8.0, and 8.1 24×7. During that time I could count the times I rebooted the system on one hand. With regard to your Unix comments:
“Linux was designed from day one to be a UNIX clone. UNIX was *not* designed with user-friendliness in mind, nor can it even become user friendly without departing from the UNIX vision”
Again lol on that one. Try posting that in an OSX forum. A raw NT kernel prompt is just as unfriendly as *nix. The kernel has nothing to do with user friendlyness…..its what you build on top of it.
Your opinion that linux is the worst thing on the desktop is completely without merit. You quite obviously have jacks–t for experience in linux yet you feel compelled to form opinions based on ….what? nothing. Fact is Linux does make a wonderful desktop. Ive used it as my main desktop for 2 years. I will say that only in the lastest distro releases has it become really great. Especially with Gentoo and Portage or “your distro” + apt. I can do everything windows can do only better in most cases with the exception to gaming……not to mention its all free. A couple of my favorite apps in linux are k3b and mplayer. Windows requires about 8 different programs just to do what those 2 can do…..all of which need to be added to your budget.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion…..but damn it. At least make an informed and educated post. No talking straight out of your arse with nothing but an attempted debian install….sheesh
Can a typical end user go to http://www.aol.com and download an AIM client for Linux?
Can a typical end user download the new Matrix trailer and play it under Linux, using the “Required QuickTime 6”?
Can a typical end-user pop in the TurboTax 2002 CD and be working on his/her taxes in a few minutes under Linux?
Can a typical end-user pop in the top-selling game (of February, at least), C&C Generals, and play it under Linux?
Can a typical end-user click on PowerPoint slides of lecture notes and instantly view them under Linux?
etc. etc. etc.
Sure, in some businesses, you could get away with Linux. The IT department would scan for alternatives (no, my Mom is not going to spend all day comparing gaim and its alternatives), set you up with a good installation, and your needs probably don’t change until the IT department allows it. However, “The Desktop” doesn’t just mean controlled business environments…it means all desktop users. Windows has the software, and can be used in both environments; business and home. Right now, Linux simply can’t. Sure, there are a lot of good alternatives to popular programs, but they usually aren’t nearly as polished, and more importantly, they don’t have the money to advertise them! (Like your average person wanting to view a trailer is really going to scour the net to learn that mplayer can play QuickTime movies, when the page has a nice little “Get QuickTime” button that leaves Linux users out of luck).
I can argue all I want that the XBox is more powerful hardware than the PS2, but when the PS2 has the largest share of good games…
“As for Linux being developed for free, I suggest you check your facts better,…”
Who said “Linux being developed for free”? As you are so fond of saying, “read what I said”. You are as bad any troll on this board.
Component parts used to build PC’s are commodities. PC’s are not. That will change, and when it does anything that gives a seller a signicant price advantage will win.
And of course, there’s that ’emerge quick-fast-easy-gentoo-install’ command that seems to be missing.
—
The right combination of hardware/distro/user, it’s as ready as anything else! A total system-upgrade is as easy as typing “emerge sync && emerge world”, and for those who can’t stand the command-line, you can use the GUI-based kportage instead. This is definetly just as easy as windows-update, and I can even upgrade distro-versions the same way. How’s that compared to upgrading let’s say win98 -> winXP? I definetly think things are ready (I’m using the gentoo (www.gentoo.org) distro by the way).
Most of the times, I visit OSnews.com it takes me back to about a week old news articles until I reload the page. This happens on any platform, using Konqueror and MOzilla.
You got to be kidding me. Have you actually used these sh*tty and complex GUIs that Gentoo’s emerge has?? How can you even think to compare it to the automatic Windows Update of WinXP that it tells you by itself that there is a new version to download, or the MacOSX Software Update where you only have to click a single button after it has automatically told you that there is an update to the OS?
You call this clean??
http://kemerge.sourceforge.net/images/kemerge-0.4.png
What “Pretend” means for Christ’s sake? (don’t bother answer to me, I know what it is, I used Gentoo for more than 8 months, but that doesn’t make me feel that Gentoo is better than something else)
Or is that you find this front end better?
http://www.nongnu.org/kportage/screenshots/
None is, because Portage itself is not as user friendly as the automatic updates on Windows and OSX. No matter the ease of use of Portage when compared to RPM, I have seen hell cases of libraries emerging as part of a dependancy that is needed, without having a suspiction of their nature, and then you end up with binary incompatible libraries, eg. the libpng fiasco last year that left more gentoo users without a working kde until they recompiled the whole damned thing against the new libpng.
So, don’t tell ME about Gentoo and how great Portage is. Portage is good for what it is meant to be under a Unix environment. But it is not the panakea that you are trying to sell us here regarding the “linux on the home desktop” discussion we are having.
Raw NT kernel prompt? Find me one.
I’ve never seen one. Ever.
Maybe you mean a cmd.exe prompt? The thing is, I might see a command prompt button on my KDE bar, but I don’t see one in the Windows XP Programs menu until I look in Accessories.
—
By teknishn (IP: —.hughesfcu.org) – Posted on 2003-04-11 19:35:37
Again lol on that one. Try posting that in an OSX forum. A raw NT kernel prompt is just as unfriendly as *nix. The kernel has nothing to do with user friendlyness…..its what you build on top of it.
In short: OSNews allows all voices and opinions to be heard. If that is “controversial” for you, then that’s what it is.
And that is the only reason I still browse this site daily. Well, that and Eugenia’s wonderful comments.
Oh, and I’ve learned by reading sites like this that Linux really isn’t ready for the desktop. But for us power users it has everything we need to be fully functional at this point. We can do everything we can do on a windows box except some of the very specialized apps, like a/v editting, etc. And even some of those run under wine.
I am very impressed with the current state of Linux. I bet their goal of conquering the desktop this year is within reach.
>I bet their goal of conquering the desktop this year is within reach.
Think more of 3 years in the future. At least this is what engineers of a well know Linux distro are estimating.
Let me give this a try:
First, we are taking about Linux being ready for the desktop. Ready as in present tense, so lets look how things are today. Second, I have been using Linux (gentoo now, great once setup) for about 3 years, I am a computer science student and use it for all my work, but still have that trusty Windows XP partition for my everday use.
You also want the new hardware to work…that’s not our fault, it’s just the way it is. Hardware takes time to get drivers written for it (the OEMs don’t usually contract drivers for Linux). If and when the rest of Linux gets “ready” for most of you skeptics out there that love to put our efforts to shame, then I urge you to start using Linux, and then you’ll see some bleeding edge hardware support.
So basically you are saying you can’t get new hardward to work and then give a bunch of excuses. -1 for linux.
Linux is “ready” for a lot of corporations that can set up a system that *don’t want* users to change it much. They can set up the applications, and train employees for their setup. That’s what RedHat specifically is going for.
So you want companies to spend money and time to train people to use linux when most people now have Windows experience. Right now, like it or not MOST people in corporations have used or use only Windows.
To the Gentoo zealot that just couldn’t contain his overwhelming excitement for his distro: the people that say Linux isn’t “ready” are waiting for Mandrake, Lycoris, RH, Lindows, Xandros, etc. to get there. Gentoo aims at the power user, not the newbie. As does debian, except debian makes a great platform for a good distro because it’s package management system is superior to most others.
Agreed, and I am a Gentoo fan at this point. It was a pain initially, but Gentoo is the best linux distro I have used, beating out Debian which I used before.
Basically, I’m saying the debate for “is Linux ready yet?” is fairly silly, since it’s ready for some, and not ready for others. Machines that come with well-tested hardware and Mandrake or Lindows bundled in are probably very usable for a lot of people, and certain computers would be completely unusable without Windows being pre-installed to other folks.
Ok, so you expect a computer store (or who ever will sell these computers) to sepnd the time and money to test all this money to make sure that Mandrake or Lindows works on it then support it or let Microsoft do this which they already do now.
I love the “there are no good applications for Linux” argument. I used to say almost the same about Windows: “there are no good applications for Windows…all the good ones were ‘shareware.'” I used to hate playing games with my clock to get Paintshop Pro to not lockdown after 30 days. I don’t know if this has gotten better, and if it has, I would bet it’s mostly OSS that has been ported.
Pay money to buy software. What is wrong with that. You need Paint Shop pro, go buy it. Any computer store has it for Windows. Linux only has the open source community. Thats great, but many of these have been ported over to Windows anyway.
Basically, I am saying that Linux is good for certain needs (servers mainly now) but can not compete with Windows XP when it comes to the average desktop. That means, name every desktop user. Which OS will meet more of there needs (for linux in this case, must take each distro seperately.) For me, I need stability, multimedia, games, development environment and Windows XP win no questions asked.
Linux is not ready for the desktop – if you are one of those who must always have the very latest technology. But in countries where it’s either older technology or none or for those who cannot afford (or don’t see the need to buy) the latest and greatest, I see Linux as much more viable.
There are also those who refuse to support companies they see as being guilty of questionable, if not illegal business practices. For them, Linux is a viable option, even if they are not technical gurus.
I fall into both categories. I have an older laptop (Celeron 400 with 256mb RAM) and am not in a position to buy the latest and greatest or anything close. I also cannot afford to spend several hundred dollars a year for applications. (No, I don’t want everything free, but I do want prices to be a bit more reasonable.)
At the same time, I also refuse to support a company that seems to make changes to its products simply to preclude their being used on older hardware or to prevent other software from being able to play nice. For me, it’s about choice: I want it.
For me and others new to Linux, it would be great if things were easy to configure and install. However, I don’t mind a little work (emphasis on little). What is needed, though, is better written documentation. It would also help if the “experts” who frequented Linux discussion forums were a bit more friendly. That hostility, more than any problems with the software itself, has turned me away from several distributions. I am now about to try Vector Linux SOHO 3.2 in part because the help forum is friendly and helpful, and people seem to genuinely enjoy helping others make it work.
I suspect a lot of Joe and Jane Users would be willing to consider Linux if they thought they wouldn’t get their heads bit off when they asked for help. If it wasn’t for the fact that I refuse to go back to Windows, I would have given up by now.
The NT prompt thing was hypothetical. The point is the kernels are the kernels…..whether linux or windows. The UI of windows is not part of the NT kernel. You can build a UI to refrence the kernel in either OS. An example of this is the xbox. Xbox runs a stripped down NT kernel with no windows UI at all. Linux has the luxury of doing it either way. None of my linux servers have a UI, but all of my linux desktops do. I rarely do anything from the command line ever on the desktops……and I generally manage the servers via a web browswer with webmin on the servers.
The only distro I’ve not tried is Debian
You mean you tried all 130 Linux distributions? That 130 is only for those listed on distrowatch.com.
Most distros are similar, but I would not assume that all of them would give you a similar experience to the one you tried. Linux is an OS. An OS is rather complex and Linux is a very modular OS. So it is literally possible to have inifinitely different OSs built by, more or less, the same GNU software. Linux can look and act 100% like XP if it was written to do so. Or OSX or BeOS or anything else. What do you think the hurd is? Just another Linux distribution without the Linux kernel.
As soon as I did a little research, however, I learned I was wrong. According to a recent buyer’s guide in Network World, leading products like Unicenter, LANDesk, and Radia already support Linux clients.
No ? Really ?
This poor guy, Lee Schlesinger, doesn’t seem to even know what is computing. Linking Unicenter to Linux has nothing related to any desktop usage. Quite the contrary, unicenter is dedicated to heavy server tasks, and nothing else. An equivalent of this inanity is something like : “fine, Red Hat deliver a MP3 reader, so i can use 3D now” …
I think Linux will have a future, on desktop, when this kind of linux troll will stop… and when Linux desktop applications will stop crashing every two minutes… after a full month of work to install them… and also when Linux desktop applications will be usefull… but you still have the choice between more of 400 editors… for free ! this is a unique feature of Linux… and the only one usefull for desktop : while your spend a month to fight against the config files, it’s really nice to have some variety ;-))))))
I hear some saying Linux will be ready for the desktop when:
1 It doesn’t require users to think, read or type anything.
2 It allows users to have full access to install software, muck up configuration files, and allow viral infections.
3 the Linux distros choose feature bloat and speed to market over stability and intelligence.
Um, then I’d rather not have Linux desktop ready…
Is OS X ready for the desktop? If yes, why is its market share shrinking???
Is linux ready for the server? Is it ready for the Enterprise market? That’s the question the pundits used to debate three years ago. A lot of people used to say: “no, no.. it never will be ready for that market”. Well, its been just three years.
Linux is ready for MY desktop, I can do 95% of the stuff I need a computer for. The changes and improvements have been unbelievably fast and amazing. I still remember, when Caldera came out with the first graphical install 3 years ago, that was a hot CNN news item!!!
So yeah, linux may not yet be ready for nearly every desktop, but it is getting better every single day. It will get there sooner than later. This argument will eventually be redundant.
all os’es have good points… all have bad points
‘nix has some weaknesses… but overall its damn fine
if i didnt currently have so many things i want to play with in windows id probably put slack 9 on here and leave it on for awhile
That hostility, more than any problems with the software itself, has turned me away from several distributions. I am now about to try Vector Linux SOHO 3.2 in part because the help forum is friendly and helpful, and people seem to genuinely enjoy helping others make it work
Hey !
Do you really want to mean that this wonderfull “it’s rock, i can’t wait, i can do everything with it” Linux needs some help just to make it working…
;-))))))))))))))
>Is OS X ready for the desktop?
Yes
> If yes, why is its market share shrinking???
Because PCs are much cheaper. There is nothing wrong with the ease of use in the OSX software, while in linux’s case, there is.
Think. Why NO ONE is complaining in such a fashion when he/she switches from PC to the Mac? While people who have tried Linux are unhappy with the things outlined here today by many readers. Think. And also, if Linux was as good as the Linux users try to sell it to us, then there would not be so many editorials to try to convince us that it is ready or that it is not ready. The FACT that there are such discussions over and over again only show that there is a problem with Linux for its wider adoption.
Everyone should have his holy grail. If Joe User refuses to learn something new it’s OK, I can make my money from a fresh install (thanx to BillyG very often 8). If Joe User decides otherwise, I can make my money with the advice and setup of a good software on LNX. 8)
My own holy grail is Mandrake for some years now, running w98 in a Netraverse Window. Am I considered as bi now?
“Think more of 3 years in the future. At least this is what engineers of a well know Linux distro are estimating.”
Yeah, same estimation as three years ago …
1) The article is about business, not home desktops.
2) You don’t expect Windows to include support for super-new stuff, so don’t expect RedHat. When Linux gets more marketshare, you’ll see more drivers supplied by OEMs. Until then, you will have to wait for interested hackers to develop support. Sorry, you can’t knock Linux on this one. It’s incredibly hard and time consuming to develop good drivers, and even if every hacker had the specs, the Windows drivers that ship with the hardware have already been developed. It will ALWAYS take time to develop them. You can’t ask it to be done in a day, a week, or even a month.
3) There’s nothing wrong with paying for software. I don’t have the cash. Most people don’t throw around 30$ for WinZip, 30$ for mirc, 80$ for paintshop pro, etc., and settle for disabled software, annoying software, or no software. The free (as in price) software situation in Windows was worse when I migrated than the free (as in price) software situation in Linux. It may be better now, I have no idea.
4) The training cost is the cost of any migration, period. It is also the barrier of entry for any potential competition to Windows. The fact that it exists doesn’t mean a product isn’t “ready for prime time,” because if that were the case then no product could ever compete with Windows.
Besides, when Ximian Desktop 2 rolls around, you would be hard-pressed to convince me that training someone who has been trained for Windows/Office to use XD2 would be anywhere close to the cost of training them to use the computer in the first place (since they already have a similar foundation). This is largely the case with RedHat 9, though XD2 promises a unified look-n-feel for OOo and GNOME. Not to say training still wouldn’t be costly, but read my above paragraph again before you jump in and say “but it still costs businesses…something they don’t want to do.” Which is bs, since they’re perfectly willing to pay in the short term for long term savings. Whethere they save money is a TCO debate, not whether Linux is mature enough to actually work and work well.
Hey ! Do you really want to mean that this wonderfull “it’s rock, i can’t wait, i can do everything with it” Linux needs some help just to make it working…
Sometimes, yes. But I also had problems setting up some things in Windows when I used it and had to search for drivers, etc.
I think Linux is in a more raw state (perhaps a bad choice of words) than Windows, but I also see great promise, some of which is already being delivered.
Linux can do pretty much everything I want to be able to do. It would be nice if there were several WYSIWYG web editors and PageMaker-like apps for Linux, but I don’t blame that on Linux (and I plan to try Scribus when I get a chance).
Not all of us newbies want everything done for us, but I think many of us would like it to be a bit easier and more consistent from distribution to distribution.
Example: I have an external Zip drive I keep old files (primarily created in Windows) on. In one distribution, I could not ever get the Zip working. In another, I could never set it up so I could mount it as a user or even so I could write to it as a user. I searched Google, found umpteen different ways of mounting (all of which seemed to be missing a command that would keep me from having to modprobe imm every time in order to then mount the Zip drive), asked for additional suggestions, and got a bit frustrated. Mandrake worked well in this regard, but I had problems whenever I wanted to install new software.
No, Linux is not perfect, and some of its staunchest advocates are very unforgiving of us less-technical types. However, I will stick with it because I see the promise and I want the choice. (Money is an issue, so don’t suggest a Mac.)
How long are you window weenies going to breast feed on momy? Get yourself a REAL operating system.
i tried linux several times in different computers and different versions, and it was a frustrating experience. the hardware support is too crappy. trying to install a printer can be a nightmare ( cups , lpd wtf?) zip units, cd burners, dvd? Nothing worked perfecfly. I know that you can make everything work with severe tweaking but it;s never the same as doing it with windows or OSx. I refuse to spend hours trying to fix bugs or using a os that is clearly not ready for consumers no matter how you hype it. maybe in a few years it will be ready but for now i dont recommend it except for people who want to learn unix stuff.
Linux is ready for the desktop, if the user thinks it is ready for the desktop. Linux has been serving my desktop needs since 1996, what few Apps I needed that were Windws apps, I ran them on Windows. Its not a question of IF lLinux is ready for the desktop, the question is is it ready for YOU to use on the desktop. With all these Linux companies working towards it. I think Linux will only get more popular and I think that you will see Desktop Linux grow and grow.
I tried linux several times, in different computers and different versions, and it was a frustrating experience. the hardware support is too crappy. trying to install a printer can be a nightmare ( cups , lpd wtf?) zip units, cd burners, dvd? Nothing works perfectly or it is too difficult to figure out how to configure the hardware. I know that you can make everything work with severe tweaking but it;s never the same as doing it with windows or OSx. I refuse to spend hours trying to find workarounds or using a os that is clearly not ready for consumers no matter how you hype it. maybe in a few years it will be ready but for now i dont recommend it except for people who want to learn unix stuff. Maybe a machine with everything preinstalled and already working is the only way to go, like those walmart pcs.
Very well said Jodie.
Well, it actually had a couple of more years for the last couple of years.
Linux won’t be ready for the desktop, it’s not supposed to be…. It’s a serverOS remember?
Besides, who would wanna use Bloat for breakfast
Why don’t you people go READ the ENTIRE article first before telling Linux sucks or isn’t ready?
The author made it quite clear that he was talking about the corporate desktop!!
You wouldn’t have encountered any of your fancy little hardware problems or “this-and-that-not-out-of-the-box”-problems _because it’s the system administator’s job to preconfigure it for you!_
For the coporate desktop, Linux is ready!
Stop blaming the users, already.
Why don’t you people go READ the ENTIRE article first before telling Linux sucks or isn’t ready?
Just because it’s not necessary. Only trying Linux is far more than sufficient to be sure that this bloody geant bugg package is everything _but_ ready for desktop…
The author made it quite clear that he was talking about the corporate desktop!! (…) _because it’s the system administator’s job to preconfigure it for you!_
For the coporate desktop, Linux is ready!
Another Linux pure trolling, 100% lie garantee ;-)))
Yes, admin’s work may avoid a lot of problem, but…
but you have “forgotten” that corporates use MS Office, Power Builder, Delphi, VB, sgbd access layer, printer solutions, software packages, which doesn’t run under Linux.
Too bad, to “forgot” such a simple detail. On another hand, you have won four stars on the Linux trolls hall of fame ;-)))))
Instead “sgbd”, please read “rdbms”.
Damned froggies ;-)))
but you have “forgotten” that corporates use MS Office, Power Builder, Delphi, VB, sgbd access layer, printer solutions, software packages, which doesn’t run under Linux.
So do you think MS Office, VB, Delphi are requirements for corporate desktop???
Nice troll to
So do you think MS Office, VB, Delphi are requirements for corporate desktop???
Well, you certainly intended to explain that corporate desktop mainly runs xmms with a little piece of xine and some nice icq ?
This is a good new. Go away those annoying applications, you know, accounting and so on ;-)))
Adi Wibowo, Xavier is right. Do you understand what “corporate desktop” means? I think you don’t. Yes, in the businesses (“corporations”) they do run MS Office, VB etc.
Does an OS need have lots games in order to be ready for desktop? The answer is no (though Linux offers some decent games; like Quake3arena & UT).
The majority use pcs for word-processing, email, surfing websites (mainly for news) and playing Solitaire and Freecell. Does Linux offer the needs of the majority? The answer is yes.
You have difficulty installing java? Launch Mozilla (as root), go to >http://wp.netscape.com/plugins/jvm.html< and click the “Java 2 Linux Plug-in” button to install java in a few minutes.
Linux doesn’t support your pc components? Get new hardware, it’s dirt cheap; CDRW’s (at least 48x) cost about $20, decent video cards costs about $30, hard disks costs about $1 for 1 GB, 256MB Ram cost about $20, and etc.
Read my lips: Linux will win many converts and ultimately replace Windows in the coming several years.
I agree with the comments above that Linux for the desktop is ready for some people, not ready for others.
I use Debian after switching from Mandrake. Linux is nearly perfect for me. All my hardware works, there’s plenty of quality softare (OpenOffice, Mozilla, Gaim, Sylpheed, Gimp, XMMS, and so on) and it’s easy to use. I still have XP Pro installed, but I rarely use it… Linux has and does almost everything I need. =)
On the other hand, I know people where Linux would not be suitable for them: people who want everything to be point-and-click, use a lot of Windows-only software (especially games), etc.
Correct link:
http://wp.netscape.com/plugins/jvm.html
Linux will be ready for the desktop when people can install it and never need to go into Windows to do something that Linux cannot.
“So do you think MS Office, VB, Delphi are requirements for corporate desktop??? ”
Duh ! Yeah ! From which planet are you from ?
So i think Linux is ready. I never need to go into windows. In fact i’ve been living without windows for almost 1,5 years.
In fact i couldn’t do anything with windows. The hardware support was really crappy (yes the windows one). The system crashed every 5 minutes (not a joke, really 5 minutes). I reinstalled the system many times and it was the same. It was not a hardware problem since under linux everything worked perfectly. A very striking thing is when i changed my graphics card from an ATI rage pro to a GeForce2MX. Under linux, everything went fine, the system detected that i had changed my graphic card and installed everything for me. I didn’t have to do anything, it worked really “out of the box”. However windows didn’t like it at all, i had to reinstall it (once again). For me Linux is much readier for the desktop than windows. There are of course really many other reasons why it is like that for me.
“So do you think MS Office, VB, Delphi are requirements for corporate desktop??? ”
Duh ! Yeah ! From which planet are you from ?
Well… I work for an well known ISP here in Brazil, which have several departments and each one have different needs. Sure, the accounting department might need something that works only in Windows but almost everyone else just needs a webbrowser, an e-mail client and an instant messenger application. In some cases, a PDF reader.
We’ve lots of programmers, designers, engineers and none of them (not even a single one!) uses Delphi at their workstations. So, I’m confident to say that “No! Not every corporate desktop run such software”.
I for one can use the only Windows application that I need through Windows Terminal Server and rdesktop. For the rest, I can use Samba to access the fileserver and printers, Mozilla to web browsing, Evolution as mail client, GnomeICU as IM, GFTP as FTP client. No, it didn’t took me months to make it work nor didn’t have to sacrifice a goat. 🙂
So… Again… Why Linux can’t be used in my desktop? It’ll be amusing to hear your reasons…
Cheers,
DeadFish Man
“off topic: does anyone have trouble loading osnews pages (loading half way and stuff) or posting comments?”
No, OSNews just about takes the cake for the speediest load IMHO and I’m half away round the world.
Hmm, sure Delphi is used in (specific) corporate environments. But Delphi is a dev tool that require enough knowledge of the underlying system to void your point. Besides, Delphi is available for linux, and is at the beginner level exactly like its MS sibling. Same with VB, imho (except linux availability). You can find a lot of SGBD available, and there are ODBC solutions as well (unixODBC, sqlrelay, iodbc iirc).
I don’t use much office suits available on linux, but they seem to be quite useable, so no problem here either. And Mozilla provides really good services in the internet area.
Ah, yes, you said MS office, and this will never be legally useable in linux, so far it’s your best point.
I don’t use printing system neither, but i made a couple of tests with cups, and so far the result was satisfying.
Packaging systems exist of course, the only problem is their diversity. But in corporate environment, it’s not a problem.
One could even set up a package repository on his firm intranet and set up the boxen to do nightly system updates. On that last point, linux seems to me even more ready for corporate than XP. Well, only seems because I’m no MS admin , so i wouldn’t know if such automatic system update exists in the MS realm.
I have never had a problem with Zip drives, CD burners or DVDs under Linux. Im currently working on a Linux Tips page for my website, and that will help people who have distro specific problems but I recommend SuSE Linux or Xandros for all desktop use. but as I stated earlier it is ready if you are ready and the only way Linux will grow as a desktop unit is everyone pitches in and offers positive reinforcing advice and promotes it. I spend a god 20 hrs a week helping friends and family who uses Windows fix their problems, the ones that use Linux rarely call me and if they do I tell them how to fix it. Only the user can determine if Linux can do the job they want on their desktop. If anyone has any input about need to know linux tips please send it to me at [email protected]
Thanks
one thing keeping Linux out is the feature-creep that users tend to do on their own. Most smaller shops [mine’s only got 20 salary people] give users a lot of control–mostly because the network was set up ad-hoc before they ever decided they needed an admin. You can’t just cut everyone off, and you can’t replace everything overnight either!
Each department ends up with “pet” programs that only run under windows–Excell sheets with lots of VB, “cute” document programs that all use .mdb files, or other programs that run “hidden” delphi runtimes. Those little things that print flyers, checks, inventory, etc. you need for business and can’t do without. It’s not that they can’t be replaced–it’s the time involved!
That said, Linux is ready for the Corp desktop. If you started with a clean slate company it would be a no-brainer. From an Admin POV lack of “consumer” apps and “trashware” is a blessing. It’s common enough to get real work done, but not so common that users can fill it up with junk. Personally, I like Knoppix. I’ve said it a zillion times, but it just works most of the time! That, and the fact that it’s locked-down are my favorite things. If only you could copy the CD rather than install it [keep the compressed Read-only folder!] It’s a standard format-at least every CD of a version is the same! They just need a mechanism to extend the Commpressed folders for add-on programs-instant install!
I think Linux will only get really popular when it becomes really easy to use and admins/programmers have the software nailed down to the point that there is “NO” learning curve versus a standard GUI user and a browser. I’ve mentioned before too, that the issues nagging linux when overcome properly will push it so far ahead few normal companies will keep up. Zero-install of OS and programs, one button update from disc or web, multi-user, instant networking, and one set of sources for all hardware!
>>”So do you think MS Office, VB, Delphi are requirements for corporate desktop??? ”
> Duh ! Yeah ! From which planet are you from ?
and you? Pluto?
Delphi … http://www.borland.com/kylix/index.html
VB – Who wants VB if one can use *real* scripting languages like Python or Perl?
B.t.w. Python and Perl run well on Win* _and_ you can use COM/ActiveX.
MS Office … long time ago.
I run it as my desktop
Others here run it as their desktop
Maybe we are abnormal users or somtheing?
You have to discount our usage to say it is not ready for the desktop.
will be ready when we no need to recompile the kernel again.
There are a lot of legitimate complaints about Linux. Try to bring them up rather than making up your own.
1) App installation is very point and click. |Starts up KPortage|. Let’s see. How about RealPlayer. |Goes to media-video| |Clicks on Real Player| |Clicks Install|. Done. Okay, including clicking the kmenu and starting KPortage that was six clicks. Now go install RealPlayer on your Windows machine in under six clicks, without typing anything in.
2) Printing is also easy. |Clicks on Printer Icon in Panel| |Selects Add-Printer Wizard| |Selects Network Printer (SMB)| |Selects “Scan” network| |Finds dorm-mate who accidentally shared printer campus-wide| |Selects Printer Type| |Wastes somebody else’s paper|
3) @BKakes – Those were some crappy examples. Out of the five, three of them (aol.com AIM, PowerPoint, and the Matrix trailer) are already true. The ones that arent just mean that Linux isn’t a trivial, drop in replacement for average Windows users. That does *not* mean that Linux isn’t ready for a lot of desktop machines. By and large, Mac users can’t just pop in random CDs either, but they Apple still has a presense on the desktop.
I use Linux as a desktop. Three other people in my dorm do as well. We share files over Windows Networking and AIM, watch DivXs, print to the campus central printers, play CounterStrike: in general fully participate in a very Windows-centric world. Our CS department uses Linux on a lot of desktops. ILM uses Linux on their artist desktops. As soluations like CrossWeaver become more mature, a whole lot of corportate users will find that it makes sense to use Linux on their desktops. Just because Linux might not be ready for Joe-user, it doesn’t mean it’s not ready for a whole lot of other people.
Nah not ready.
For multimedia I hope GStreamer bares fruit within a year.
Here’s hoping that the standard environments GNOME, and KDe start to feel even lighter and application Launch is optimised and cached, so that the second time launching is even quicker.
and…WE NEED APPS NOT HACKS I really do not care if it is in binary format.
I want WMP, QuickTime, and yes even RealONE.
and I hope that RealONE in linux can play windows media and quicktime as well as it can in windows.
I do not want only text and a few graphics when web browsing.
Also I want speed speed speed. It is too slow on a k6-2 450Mhz. win2000 runs just fine thankyou.
@John Blink : “I really do not care if it is in binary format.” Sorry to break this to you, but that’s the exact attitude that got us in this mess in the first place. If you’re happy using Windows, and happy with the Windows way of doing things, why not just keep using Windows? Most Linux users aren’t extremists with respect to closed source software. They’ll put up with some of it quite easily. But the ideals of open source are important to most Linux users, even very reasonable ones like Linus. Few Linux users would like to see Linux become another Windows, only with a different name.
Xavier is a dick. Mod this down, but it is too true not to say. I don’t even think this is subjective. Anyone reading his comments would agree. Yup, Xavier is a dick.
I am a freebsd user (moved back after the hell I experienced with Solaris) and personally I don’t see Linux or any alternative OS moving beyond the 20% “barrier”.
Lets face it, the average user is a moron, they want to do the least amount of learning and hopefully, fingers crossed, everything works out right and if it doesn’t, of course they’ve got a silly pr*ck like me willing to scoot around to their house and “repair” their computer when ever they feel they need to ask, even on the bloody weekend, oh, btw, I now charge these “people” who ask for help.
You know what I would love to see, every software company close up and let Microsoft have a free reign on the market place, screw all the “windows advocates” into the ground and let them eXPerience the full “pleasure” of have a complete and unrestricted monopoly have its way.
I’ve read most of the posts here, but I thought I’d comment on yours since they are always so full of vitriol. Did Linux steal your girlfriend or something?
Anyway, Xavier, Linux will never be ready for your desktop. Never. Just get over it. We all know it will never stand up to all of your self-righteous and self-important expectations, so stop wasting your time with us Linux retards, jump in bed with your Windows machine, have little Windows kids and have a happy life.
Do you really want to mean that this wonderfull “it’s rock, i can’t wait, i can do everything with it” Linux needs some help just to make it working…
So you’re back on the “It’s rock” thing again. What the hell is that supposed to mean anyway?
Before I go, let me leave you with a stupid joke.
How many French does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
One. He holds the lightbulb and the rest of the world revolves around him.
I’ve read all of the “Linux IS ready, Linux ISN’T ready” posts, and so far, I can agree with both sides. It all depends on what you need to do. For example:
I’m running dualboot Win2K and Red Hat 8. The only reason I have Win2K is so that I can get my gaming fix. My hardware is relatively new, and everything has been detected ok under Linux. Openoffice serves my needs for documents, Mozilla for web browsing and KMail for my email. I code, but I write mostly web and other scripts / applications, so I have no need for VB or C#.
Upgrading / bugfixes for my Redhat install are taken care of by apt-rpm, which I run automatically. Of course, people coming straight from the Windows world wouldn’t know how to install that. There is the Redhat Network system, but good luck trying to get in if you’re using their free service.
Is Linux ready for the average user? I’m not sure about that. There are some things that need taken care of, but things are getting better.
The command interpreter or the command line based shell as some people call it, will never disappear from Linux. That it the core of Linux. The only thing it can be done is “hiding it” just like Apple with MacOS X did it.
And yes, the main problem with Linux on the desktop is the installation/uninstallation of programs. Why do I always have to compile programs? You call that a desktop OS? umm “make” wait a couple of long minutes and error 1, blah blah, error 2 blah blah, syntax errors and dependencies night mares. Same thing applies for RPMs. Sure you have apt-get but looks like apt-get is not advertised enough among Linux distros. I have to agree, lose the command line or at least hide it or make it so that you never have to use it again and standarize on install and uninstall format, point and click install and then talk to me about being ready for the desktop. Linux is and will never be ready as long as these two conditions are not met. My own opinion only.
I was just reading the posts of the ones saying that linux isn’t ready … and bla bla bla … and none of them use linux, i mean, how can u make a critic of something if you just have no idea of how it works? the ones with the most experience in linux are the ones that tried it for 6 moths and never use it really, just have it installed in their HD. How can anyone say that linux hasn’t a good package install system? it may be different to almost every distro, but all of them are standard in a distro, take apt as Iconoclast has perfectly explained.
To all this i’m trying to say, that almost all linux users has a great expereance with windows, but the rigid-thinking windows people is making critics of an os unknown to them, and making the critics ’cause linux is not like windows. I hope linux will never be like windows, it’s just like another os that has nothing with it. you can’t say that linux isn’t ready for the desktop because linux is not like windows.
Windows is far for being the ideal os for the user desktop.
You wanna talks about linux, use it, if not, keep you mouth shot.
(excuse my english, it’s not my first language)
The last two lines were suppose to be “Linux is not and will never be ready as long as these two conditions are not met. My own opinion only.”
I think it’s kind of good that people adapt themselves to Linux from Windows, then after a couple of years or so, they go BSD.
I guess that’s natural progress, you start with something that sucks and just move up the line =)
…
the linux users-wannabe should start to think in a different manner (any reference to a switch-like slogan is intentional^^), and this is a FACT.
linux is not windows and not macos, and *not* beos.
Users have to learn a lot of things about the features of this operative system…BUT…
i think it is not ready to become a mainstream OS. And not because it is difficult (oh my god, the make/install process is not that difficult, the difficult part is having all the dependences satisfied, and the only distro that does it in a clean way is Mandrake.urpmi looks easier than apt-get, at least in its GUI incarnation). The two reasons are: it’s really too easy to break things (all the configuration files…they’re really too much…a typo can be a pain in the ass if you are not a gentoo/crux/geek-minded user, or at least a great waste of time if it happens at work.), and that the window managers (both kde and gnome) are not “mature” and polished (why i have to resize all the apps that i open in kde? where is a big easy-to-see search button with all the sherlock/windows search functions? why the gnome drag’n’drop is so frustrating? Why i have to pass through 4 or 5 menus to burn a iso in xcdroast?)
Having good opensource apps is not-enough!