The final BlueEyedOS demo CD that we reported recently, is out and about and ready to get downloaded. The CD weighs 106 MB and it requires an XFree86 supported graphics card at 1024×768.
BlueEyedOS Demo/Test CD Now Available
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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Does anyone else see window tearing when moving the windows on part 1 of the demo? Also, does anyone have window flicker when resizing windows on part 2 of the demo? I think that this is due to the app_server using X11 compatibility mode, but I am not sure.
Works fine here… What kind of graphics card do you have *exactly*? and what CPU and how much memory?
I have a Matrox G400 with 16 mb, an Intel Celeron running at 533 MHz, and 128 mb of RAM (PC100.)
Someone had to say it
I second that…
Somebody please post some screenshots. I’m interested in seeing this, but would rather not bother downloading the CD.
No idea how to get screenshots on this (read only) system where it does not include almost any apps and kde/gnome apps are not present either. It is just a fullscreen demo.
Having said that, I think I saw somewhere a shot of this system recently, I just can’t remember where…
Works great on a 650 athlon and a 450 pentium. It is much faster than Redhat 8. It proves the concept. I’m interested in the BeAPI on Linux if nothing else. Good job!
Does it boot in VMWare? If so the screen capture facility could handle it…I’m aware the new v4 happily lets you run gui linux unlike previous versions where it was a serious pain
If I may ask, what type of video card do you have?
u can get screenshots from the BlueEyed OS Website…
http://www.blueeyedos.com/project/screenshots.html
🙂
u can get screenshots from the BlueEyed OS Website…
Nothing new tho
Oh well, will just have to wait with my 56k dialup…!
I just ran it under my VMWare 3.x and I got the screenshots for you:
http://img.osnews.com/img/3300/blueos1.jpg
http://img.osnews.com/img/3300/blueos2.jpg
These are the two screens that this demo has, but please do not run to try it under VMWare, because there is no point. The whole point of the demo CD is to run it natively on your machine in order to see the smoothness. You loose the smooth factor if you use VMWare which uses VESA there.
Both machines have cheap RIVA TNT2 cards. I think they have 16mb. It actually worked the best on the crappiest machine.
The demo CD is just a old frozen state of the development,
the first part is nothing more than “UITest”, already available for download for months, see my article about XFree86. The last version of our native window managing system is integrated in our app_server, bugs were fixed and speed improved.
On http://img.osnews.com/img/3300/blueos2.jpg , you will see a well known bug (soon fixed), the update of the left window is not OK, if you move the BePuyo on top of it, it will redraw correctly. Some people reported that the button and the checkbox don’t work, that’s not true, it’s a consequence of the previous bug. If you move the window and force the update by moving the BePuyo apps on top of it, it will works. The app_server handles draw events, mouse events, keys events…
I will release the B.E.OS part separatly, so people having a linux installed will be able to play with the app_server without downloading the 106MB file.
Regards,
Guillaume
It is quite impressing and interesting to see how that runs on Linux and XFree86.
My comments to the whole project:
– even though it looks nice, I find it hard to navigate through the website
– you could use that translucent X implementation ( http://xwin.org/article.php?story=20030416022515290 )
– compile with dietlibc http://www.fefe.de/dietlibc/
Guillaume, you have showed a great initiative working hard on B.E.O.S., the linux Kernel will simplify quite a lot the work developing a new “BeOS” as well as drivers, etc., but I think the OpenBeos way is the way to go as it is a relly new, completely from scratch new os, Linux sucks, old technology for freaks, not an OS for the future.
To make B.E.OS a little more real, I mean to run real apps like OpenTracker, mail, browser etc etc… we NEED motivated people who believe in the potential of the project. If, like us, you consider that a kde-linux is not a beast for you, you are welcome.
Regards,
Guillaume
Which tasks have to be done? I’d like to participate, but I have bad coding capabilities
i saw no issues nor visible tearing with either part of the demo.
test machine was a p4 1.4 laptop with a mobile ati chipset (The exact one eludes me ATM).
very very nice, keep up the good work
> Which tasks have to be done? I’d like to participate, but I have bad coding capabilities
Obviously they need people who know how to write toolkits in C++, have kernel and filesystem coding experience and these are not easy tasks… So they do need people who have “low level” developing skills at this point.
please, for the next image, can you run gzip or bzip2 over the iso image in order to reduce the loading time ?
thanks.
“gzip or bzip2 over the iso”
and gain 500KB?
The iso is already compressed…
because use a compressed fs.
Regards,
Guillaume
Linux and Xfree underneath? It is quite a lot faster than my Mandrake 9.1 box. And I heard it’s not using a 2.65 kernel. Anyway, i haven’t tried much on it, I’ll comment later.
It is fast, as responsive as Windows. But, there is nothing to really do. Except play BE PUyo, all it has si 2 screens with a few things you can click and move around. I thought this would be kind fo like Knoppix or SuSE 8.2 Live, a full features OS, that runs off the CD and shows you just about everything. I can’t even browse the internet on this. I thought it would be more.
As we said before, this is a proof-of-concept demo, not an OS that you use to run stuff. It is a “Technology Preview” if you must.
“I thought it would be more”
Sure, it’s only what is explained on the release note on the download page, that’s not an OS just a demo,
a sort of proof of concept.
Because to run BeOS apps under B.E.OS is just a question of recompilation, we already have a full stock of interesting applications and a complete desktop managing called OpenTracker. So the real need is more a full working libraries set and an app_server than internet apps.
All I hope is that you are convinced of the potential of it.
Regards,
Guillaume
So I downloaded the image, and burned it as follows:
cdrecord -v dev=9,1,0 speed=4 -data bluecd.iso
Checked that my BIOS boots from the CD-ROM before the hard drives, and rebooted. The machine checked the CD-ROM, found nothing to boot, and continued from the hard drive as normal.
I’m running an Athlon 1.1 GHz with drives as follows:
Primary Master: BeOS HD
Primary Slave: Empty
Secondary Master: Data HD
Secondary Slave: CD-ROM
Am I missing something?
Ok, it seems excellent so far even the font rendering looks very nice, may be because it runs under Windows?? One more question, when this project gets ready, how about we will go when it comes to installation of new programs? Will it be the same as in the real BeOS point + click and done or will it be by using the traditional way of installation using rpms and compiling from source. It’s a good question.
You can get screenies if you’ve got VPC, Bochs, or any other PC emu running. Like, if you’ve got a Mac you might have VPC. Or, you could download the demo (Might be a PC demo too, not sure) and snag the screenies with the demo time (CMD + SHIFT + SPACE + 4 will do a selection-only screen straight onto the desktop on Macs; ALT + PRINTSCRN on Windows machines. Dunno about Linux).
we NEED motivated people who believe in the potential of the project
Perhaps if the project were open source as well as free, then you’d have more people by now…
>You can get screenies if you’ve got VPC, Bochs, or any other PC emu running.
Yes, I know. Didn’t you see my shots I posted later?
I’v tried it. It works very smooth and without any flickers, although my PC isnt very fast (P3 550mhz, 192mb ram, riva tnt2 32mb)
keep up the good work
Is there any special procedure to put it onto a 128mb usb key?
That would be pretty cool, I think. BeOS on a keychain.
It runs great in VMWare 4.
Well, yeah, but the whole point is to see its speed. VMWare and any other runtime/emulator will take that away from you, they are useless for the kind of goal this release had.
It brings a tear to my eye seeing that oh so familiar beos ‘look’, and by what people have been saying, the performance is pretty good too.
Thanks Eugenia for the screenshots – I’ve managed to persuade a friend with a cable modem to get it for me now…I just want to experience the beos look running on linux…all v strange
From what I can see, the project would be much further down the road if they went open source, but then they would lose any ‘competitive’ (I use the word very loosely) advantage over other BeOS clones.
I have to admit though, I was sceptical to say the least when they announced plans for the use of linux + x, it’ll be interesting to see what happens next in terms of an actual desktop rather than a tech preview.
I wish you all the best B.E.OS, if I had the C++ skills I’d help out…unfortunately i’m a bit lacking in that area :s
Perhaps if the project were open source as well as free, then you’d have more people by now…
True. What I would like to see is… Show the source codes with the close license; it will gaining little more people to help such as patches of fixes or so.
Mandrake or Redhat use KDE or Gnome (or both) by default,
these are pretty processor hungry window managers.
There are a others available which are quicker
(like windowmaker or the default on from X) but have fewer features.
They also start a number of services at boottime…
On my laptop the demo runs nice, on a slow (266, matrox millenium) machine at work the dragging of the windows lags behind the mousepointer but they do move smoothly 🙂
and the $10 isa soundcard isn’t recognised..
(it did work with BeOS 🙂 (I thought)
At first, I thought the demo would use the new app_server, so that the desktop would be VSYNC’ed. (ala Zeta) Then I read that the demo would run in X11 compatibility mode, which of course causes expose events to the X Server, which causes redrawing problems. Perhaps the use of the term “tearing” is incorrect, as that term is usually appiled when discussing the rendering of 3d images using polygons. I remember some time ago that one could turn of VSYNC in the Microsoft Windows settings / driver programs of 3dfx Voodoo cards to increase performance, but the result would be the “tearing” of polygons. So, my mistake of course.
Ah, so you were expecting the “smooth window dragging” as found on Zeta/Dano and on MacOSX. So the demo worked fine for you too then.
AFAIK, after myself shouting to Guillaume to add that a few months back, I think he tried to add this feature, but it was not very easy to do so.
BTW, it is *not* VSYNC’ed, it is close to that term, but it is not VSYNC that feature. You use the PC clock and you do the redraws based on a specific timer (calculated using the current refresh rate too, but it is not “vsync” in its traditional meaning)…
When are they going to hurry up and release the code. Honestly, for a project that claims to be O.S.S, they’ve been operating out of a cellar. Where’s the CVS branch? These people have to release some source, sooner or later or I don’t think that this will last longer than a few years. If it is non profit, then why the arrogance toward the public?
In any case, I think I’ll download it and have a look.
If you actually READ the web site instead of whining like a GPL zealot, your answer is there:
http://www.blueeyedos.com/project/license.html
“During the development process, only BlueEyedOS developers have access to our CVS, but if needed we could open it, but today it’s not necessary.”
It is theirs to decide.
I would strongly urge Gillaume and B.E.O.S to remain closed and not commit this source publicly-they have done an excellent job with what they have, they are certainly way ahead of OpenBeOS in terms of having a usable proof of concept.
I downloaded it early this morning before I went to work and tried it out and it worked great. I was always a little leary of this project and thought OpenBeOS was the way to go in re-creating the BeOS environment…
until I read Eugenia’s comment yesterday about it being like GNUStep and Windowmaker recreating OpenStep for Linux then I saw the project in a whole new light!
When you think of it like that it makes a lot more sense (at least for me it does)
I wish this project the best of luck!
keep up the good work!
How did you guys burn this image? What software and what settings did you use? Helios is asking for a floppy image to make a bootable CD – any idea where to get one?
I used Nero to burn the image. From the http://download.linuxtag.org/knoppix/docs/ FAQ:
2. How to burn KNOPPIX on CD
2.1 Image-Type
KNOPPIX_Vxxxxxxxxxx.iso -files are ISO-Images, wich are using “El
Torito”-Specification (http://www.phoenix.com/PlatSS/PDFs/specs-cdrom.pdf).
In the ISO-Image there are not only the user-data, there are also
Informations about the structure of the CD.
If you want to see the structure, have a look at IsoBuster
(http://www.IsoBuster.com).
2.2 Burning
To get the image-file on CD use RAW-Mode of your burning-software (have a
look at Bild 1 WinOnCD German Edition).
Select the KNOPPIX_Vxxxxxxxxx.iso as filename of the image.
Select 2048 Bytes/Sector as the correct data format (see Bild 2 WinOnCD
German Edition).
Burn your CD as a “Single Session CD” or select finalize.
The Mode “Disk at once” or “Track at once” should be irrelevant for a
data-CD (have a look at the Online-Help of your burning software).
That’s it, i hope it helps.
Andreas Heinzen
Nero specific:
How to burn a Knoppix-CD (under Windows) with the program Nero
==============================================================
– Turn the computer on
(if the computer is already on, reboot the computer)
– Start the program Nero
– Wait until Nero is up and running and close the wizard
– Click on <File> and then click on <Burn Image>
– If necessary change file type to All Files (*.*)
– Find the ISO-Imagefile (KNOPPIX_Vxxx.iso ) and open it
– Insert a blank CD-R or CD-RW in the CD ROM burner
– Click on <Write> (or maybe it is <Burn> I’m not shure)
– Watch it burn.
– Click on <OK>
– Click on <reject>
– Put the CD out of the CD ROM burner
————————————————————–
2002-12-30, Karl Schock (nach einer Vorlage von B. Droege)
cdrecord dev=9,0,0 speed=24 -v -data -dao -overburn -eject -driveropts=burnfree bluecd.iso
it’s standard command for burning cds here
cdrecord will use max speed for cd anyway (i’ve burned it on cd-rw so speed was 4)
works ok.
forgot about Helios:
If You use latest go to menu Image->CD Image->Burn Image File
In older versions there is “Burn Image File” also but i can’t remember how menu parent was called
Maybe it’s not the right place to ask but anyway,
will it have the same file system layout as BeOS or it will be much more Linux like (I don’t really like it) or something else?
Hi all!
In two years you deposited faith in our project, and here is our hard work done specially to the community.
I know was very hard believe in a BeOS with Linux kernel, but now I see you saying wonders of our project.
I want say thank you for all support that we received from community, and please: help us.
Sorry for all spelling errors (here and on website)
Michael VinÃcius de Oliveira
~ BlueEyedOS.com webmaster ~
So, this is a 106 MB file (and using a compressed file system at that), and it doesn’t do anything at all, apart from allowing you to move windows around and play PuyoPuyo? Good work, lads, but you should consider writing it in a compiled language the next time.
Sounds good but I’m also curious about directory structure for the system files and such, being a linux kernal I can’t imagine it’d have the old BeOS ‘auto-config’ but what about the rest? config files etc?
Tried using B.E.OS on VPC6 for the mac, but it’s got graphics problems. At first I though it may be something to do with colour, I don’t think VPC6 handles 24 bit colour very well.
For the final part of the demo, the background was okay and the windoow frames was okay but the windows content was jsut vertical strips.
Dave
One of the advantages I thought of zipping a file was that it included a way to correct for download errors. Anyone who wishes to offer a correct version should offer md5checksums or at least zip it.
I’ve got the same thing as the VPC 6 guy with VPC 5, and it won’t run either on my ShuttleX PC with 2.53PIV/512MB RAM and GeForce 4Ti4200.
Any ideas anyone, or am I SOL?
Erik
If you already use linux on your computer, just mount the demo CD and the KNOPPIX file, go to /mnt/test/be and use it directly. Look at the script called ‘run’ and at the sysctl.conf file.
Regards,
Guillaume
Sorry, my fault, disregard message 2 messages above. My video card (GeForce 4 Ti4200) is both digital and analog, and so is my (LCD) monitor. For whatever reason, this demo disk set my card to analog mode (it’s usually in digital mode). When I switched my monitor to match, the display appeared nicely and I was able to play with the demo just fine. It looks like very fine work! The window styles sure bring back memories. My CPU usage was nearly non-existant, but then again it’s a very fast CPU (2.53Ghz) so I’m not sure what to make of that. I never get shearing under X and don’t get it either under this demo.
One thing I noticed that Redhat 9 was not able to do, but I’m not sure if this is able to do (and BeOS certainly could do), is for example play several quicktime (or whatever) movies at once, with no frame dropping. Or, when frames were dropped, they were dropped evenly among all playing movies such that there wouldn’t be any jerkiness. As the load increased, GUI usability did not suffer. I considered this a sign of a very elegant scheduler and although Linux with all the patches does provide a very low kernel interrupt latency, I’m not certain that it can provide such smoothness between tasks of ordinary priority under high load. For example, on Redhat 9, if you were to run several “really slick screensavers” or several instances of ico, you see a lot of jerkiness and jumpiness, nowhere near the smoothness you experienced on BeOS on hardware a fraction of the power I am on now. Guillaume, have you tried experiments where you’ve put several multimedia type apps running on a CPU which is already under high load? Is the modified kernel able to deal with this elegantly?
Erik
“Guillaume, have you tried experiments where you’ve put several multimedia type apps running on a CPU which is already under high load? Is the modified kernel able to deal with this elegantly?”
It’s more a problem of movie player than a problem of scheduling. Low latency patch really help but it really depends of the “player”, mplayer works very well under cpu load.
On the demo cd, the kernel is the standrad knoppix kernel, even if you switch to console and run a cpu hungry app, the window movements on part 1 and the mp3 playing will not suffer of the cpu load.
Regards,
Guillaume
Okay, yes, I’ve done some more experimentation and am even more impressed now than I was. I went back to the console and ran about 50 instances of gzip (piping from /dev/zero, into each other, then into /dev/null) and 15 instances of ico. I also ran twm (this was in part one of the demo, didn’t realize until later that it ran a window manager for me in part 2)
Well, it didn’t seem to affect the responsiveness of the GUI at all, even with such a high system load. (mp3 playing didn’t work on my box and I didn’t even know about it — I’ve got USB speakers, I guess Knoppix doesn’t have a driver for them).
Basically, it kicked the pants off of Redhat 9. It seems most of the difference was in the kernel however, I didn’t notice a difference in system load (on an otherwise completely unloaded system) in dragging a window around on part 1 (your wm) or part 2 (normal wm), should I have? Not sure what I’m looking for here. In either case it maxed out at about 5-10%. Can you tell me a little bit more about these kernel patches? I have read up a little — but are they already meant to be integrated into 2.6? Are they already there in the later versions of 2.5?
I also read the earlier article by you about your speed optimizations to X for 32-bit color depth. I am very interested in this. Does it only work on software which is aware of it? I noticed in part one, when I ran a foreign window manager, it conflicted with your windows (but only visually — no crashing or anything).
Erik