PC Buyer’s Guide has posted a shootout comparing Max OS X to Windows XP to Linux, comparing basic, factory-included functionality. It includes a huge side-by-side chart. The overview seems to be pretty evenhanded, and isn’t too preoccupied with declaring a winner and drawing much of a hard and fast conclusion. The bottom line: OS X is a very usable and elegant OS, XP has a leg up on some functionality (and of course more apps), and Linux is an impressive contender.
Before we get 100+ comments on how MAC hardware is more expensive, market share, lower cost of ownership, freedom, the evil of MS, et cetra. I wanted to say that each OS has its place. I am simply glad that we have more than one OS to choose from!!
Here we go..Let’s place bids.
I say the number of posts gets up to 150+
Why Mandrake???
Of the top Linux distros, why Mandrake???
I have seen more issues with Mandrake and most of these tests use Mandrake.
Why not use a proven Linux as in SuSE or Red Hat.
Those are the top 2 any how.
I have fixed several Linux issues for people and clients by getting them off the amature Mandrake.
Thanks for your time.
I say the article melts down on fire before reaching 65…
sorry, couldn’t help it
They’re testing older versions of Linux.
Just because MS only releases a new OS every few years, doesnt mean the linux community is like that. Every 6 months you get vast improvements.
Thats my only complaint. 😀
Why Mandrake???
Of the top Linux distros, why Mandrake???
I have seen more issues with Mandrake and most of these tests use Mandrake.
Why not use a proven Linux as in SuSE or Red Hat.
Those are the top 2 any how.
Perhaps I’m an anomoly, but Mandrake 9.1 is actually MORE stable than RH9 on my boxes. Interestingly RH 8.0 was very stable on the same box.
Really, why not Mandrake? As far as a good out of the box user experience, Mandrake is a fairer comparison at least it supports basic multimedia capabilities out of the box (Red Hat lacks support for MP3 and DVD playing).
I can’t comment on SuSE as I haven’t gotten around to giving it a try.
First, I’ll say I agree with the first post up there. Choice is nice.
But I can’t help but say this was a bad article. They make a note at the top that they tried to include application in GNU/Linux up to the point that it was comparable to a windows system. But then they randomly include programs for all 3 OSs. For example, they mention 3rd party applications for Windows like Ahead Nero, Intervideo WinDVD, etc. However, when discussing disk defragging, they just say 3rd party support for Mac. And they list GNU/Linux’s ability to write DVDR as experimental, when dvdrtools is a fully functional and widely deployed despite it’s beta numbering. Generally inconsistent.
The author puts “VNC, Telnet” for remote control of GNU/Linux! Also mp3 playback for GNU/Linux is “Varies” Enough Said!
-bogey
5.) You want to “Think Different” without looking queer.
<p>4.) You need an OS as unreliable as your ’83 Ford Fairlane.
<p>3.) It’ll help you get a job. Oh wait, nevermind, it’s not 1999 anymore.
<p>2.) You have an extra $299 from your unemployment check.
<p>And the number one reason to buy a computer with Linux pre-installed:
<p>1.) You want to make uglier friends.
…you can suck my shiny metall ass (bender)
You would think the moderators would be watching threads like this very closely…anything with ‘Mac’ in it or ‘vs.’ tends to generate a lot of ridiculous trolling.
Fortunately I’ve read it before
They were some erros like bogey said, and I wrote an email to the author to help correct them, but it’s a generally a good and fair article on such a religious topic.
You can also read a quite good article on wikipedia,
the free encyclopedia :
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system_advocacy
Its:
“You can bite my shiny metal butt”.
I dont think Mandrake is a good contender for this type of shootout, SuSE is much more Desktop oriented as is RH9 although RH doesnt say that they are aimed at the desktop. Linux will win, Resistance is Futile, Macs are aimed at the multimedia crowd, so they will not go anywhere anytime soon unless Linux starts making some inroads into that department
Mac OS X keeps getting better and better!!
“<p>1.) You want to make uglier friends.”
Sad but true.. hehe.
Has to be said: Mandrake is not Linux, Linux is not Mandrake. I really dont belive that Linus Torvalds or any one of the Linux team should be held liable for the fuckups Mandrake do.
Why doesnt the Linux brand get more protection?
“<p>1.) You want to make uglier friends.”
Yet smartest.
What really counts is -> how efficient you are. Here in our studio we have some that use Mac OS X, XP and Linux(RH9).
Yes, you get the odd “I can do it quicker” statement – but fundamentally; We make the setup work, becuase that is why we are there – to work. Not to get all caught up in heated discussions about which “box” is better or worse.
There were numerous features that were indicated as not supported when they should have been yes. Ie. journaling FS not supported, that I can only assume the other two were just as bad, that I think the whole article is questionable.
Wow, what a bad test.
They are fully ignoring that a gnu/linux system is build of several components. Furthermore they seem to ignore that
nearly all programs that are available for linux are also for os x.
And: Did you notice this thing with the reed and green marks?
Even if windows is clearly the worst OS for the given task, it doesnt get a red mark.
I spare myself other comments – the article speaks for itself…
Annoying Troll Removal (ATR) FAQ version 0.1…
1. Ignore it and maybe it will go away. (Almost never works, but still worth a try)
2. Point out the stupidity of what they are saying and hope that they see the error their ways. (Almost never works, because this assumes that they are simply misinformed)
3. Report them to the site editors for banishment. (This may or may not be preceded by a warning.)
I’ve tried being ‘nice’ but I think I speak for others on this site when I say, enough is enough.
Here’s your warning, knock it off or I’ll request that you be banned.
While it is true that OS X does keep getting better, the way you say it in every thread that involves OS X looks lame. The way you replied to bytes256 leads me to believe that you are a not a Mac user but rather an [insert other OS name here] user who is hell-bent on making Mac users out to look like zealots.
If you have something worth while to add to the discussion, please do so, but defending a comment that didn’t say much anyways, and them flaming another user for him calling you out on it is not acceptable.
Please stop.
The mdk haters are out in full force today. If you guys had bothered to READ the article, as that is what they are there for, you would have seen that mdk was the first one they included in the test and also tested others later on such as “Xandros, Lindows, Lycoris, Knoppix”. So please, go troll somewhere else or at least read the article before posting.
The main thing I find odd about this article is that after the feature table he rarely even mentions Linux. In almost all the follow up paragraphs he mainly mentions OSX and Windows with maybe a sentence on Linux. If you want it to be a shot out please give more detail besides ‘varies’ in the table.
-Nick
They list the Mac as not having DVD+RW support. This is misleading.
It does work in all super drives but Apple doesn’t “officially” support it.
I skimmed through the low down, and I was a little disapponted with the UI grade. Calling it poor! I think the OS X UI isn’t the best, but in many ways it’s A LOT better then windows. They made the user interface easy to use and appealing to the person. Windows UI is easy to use, but never looked “appealing” until XP.
I could go on and on about this, but I think the OS X user interface should have gotten something better then poor.
Oh well. Life goes on, there’s no point of constantly pushing which OS is better, because we’re all repeating things from the past. When will people get this, an OS is an OS. Live with it! Make your choice and stick with it.
They say that Journaling FS is an unsupported option on the Mac. This is not true. Yes, it’s not turned on by default, but that does not mean its not supported
I found Redhat better to install than most other distros, I still don’t like Linux’s inability to make it easy to install software without getting a decently packaged rpm. And I am not a techie so i have no inclination to grab source code and create the file or whatever.
Windows XP I don’t use, so I can’t comment on it, I do use windows 98 and find this a very easy OS to use. So far I have no complaints about it. I do like the idea of using a non-M$ OS and this is why I am looking at MAC OS.
Only downside to the OS is that only one store in my area carries any machines or software, and not much at that.
Also only one newsagent carries magazines for the MAC or Linux.
But all carry Windows centric mags.
If I could justify the price i would go for a MAC.
But as I also make computers for people as my business it has to be Windows. I had one person who wanted Linux pre-installed and so I did, he phones up the next day saying it doesn’t work, so I had to explain what to do with software installation etc.
He came back a few days later and demanded I installed Windows 🙂
He never bothered me again until he wanted an upgraded machine. He loves using windows and said he was told to get Linux because of this an’ that.
Has to be said: Mandrake is not Linux, Linux is not Mandrake.
Exactly. I’d even take a step further. I wish I could remember where the quote came from, but I recently read where someone was saying how you can look at GNU/Linux as a product, but a process. Linux is just the kernel. And although you can probably assume some basic tools will be included in a distro, like GCC, Bash, etc… nothing is a given. Can you call call Redhat, Suse, or Mandrake bloated? Sure. But I wouldn’t apply that to peanutLinux. I wouldn’t call EvilEntity Linux a business desktop, but I would would call Redhat that.
Because of the nature of GNU/Linux systems, you can’t plug them into a standard chart like this article tries to. However, this is the very strength of GNU/Linux. Don’t like how it handles something? Replace it. It’s an application, just that. Try to replace a major feature of your favorite proprietary OS. Best of luck.
-bogey
Why don’t you write an API for your ATR while you are at it? And speak for other when asked to.
The truth is I don’t use and don’t care about OS X. The only reason I started the “Switcher campaign” was because I was really annoyed by the fact that in every single article that somehow involved OS X there would be some dumbass that would comment something like “getting better and better”. When I asked them to stop some people would actually defend them, so my solution was to annoy the heck out of them with the very thing they were defending. Seems like it worked
) I’ll stop now.
Peace
P.S. Mac OS X keeps getting better and better
P.P.S. Just kidding
)
Hey, I have an idea, Switcher. Why don’t you write an article summaryzing your experiences with OS X, and what will be in your opinion its best improvements? That way it would be 1st page and you wouldn’t need to remind us that in every comment.
P.S.: But please don’t make it 10 pages full of “Mac OS X keeps getting better and better!! Mac OS X keeps getting better and better!! Mac OS X keeps getting better and better!!…”
“If I could justify the price i would go for a MAC.”
Am I to assume that you can’t buy a PC because you can’t justify the price? Unless you are buying a sub $800 computer, there is a Mac priced at every range.
The truth is I don’t use and don’t care about OS X. The only reason I started the “Switcher campaign” was because I was really annoyed by the fact that in every single article that somehow involved OS X there would be some dumbass that would comment something like “getting better and better”. When I asked them to stop some people would actually defend them, so my solution was to annoy the heck out of them with the very thing they were defending. Seems like it worked
) I’ll stop now.
This is EXACTLY the type of thing that reduces the signal to noise ration around here. Your behavior is completely inapropriate… no matter what one individual said in a post.
It says that OS X doesn’t, “Always show file/folder names in dock/taskbar” this is not true.
Unless I’m missing something the article reviews an older version of OS X and most of its references are to old articles that discuss now mute issues with Jaguar 10.2.6. It seems that it needs a major over-haul to be made current. Even the conclusions made regarding XP being secure due to SP1 is just crazy. I run both systems and maybe this article made sense in 2001, but not today.
It was a waste of my time, why is it being resurrected now? At least a section describing updates since it was written would have been appropriate. And the issues raised by those old article references in Wired news etc simply no longer are true.
The same can be said for Linux. Hey, maybe we should all gain up against Microsoft and bash them for having the same tired old problems in each new release. Microsoft doesn’t understand that its not okay to cut corners when designing an OS just to outmaneuver your competition and that marketting hype counts for shit in technology circles. The OS is an essential piece of software that must be designed the right way. Even the slightest design flaws at the OS level can cause mass instability, insecurity and compatibility problems that might never be resolved. Which I believe is what we are experiencing with Microsoft software right now.
re: Who cares…
We are also there to inform management what technology is the right technology to use for the job and how to make things cost less and run more efficiently. In this reguard, after all the worms and viruses we’ve seen on Windows lately, I think it would be acceptable to recommend alternatives and try to replace every system running insecure operating systems. Either that or hire a full-time windows security expert to configure, monitor and secure all windows boxes for your net. Whatever has the best TCO, I don’t care.
But keeping windows because its the only thing your employees know is a very lame excuse IMO. Because it is the employees job to learn how to use the tools they use to do their job. If they can’t learn how to use OSX or Linux or BeOS or whatever, they should be laid off. They need to get off their asses and go back to school so they can learn how to work again while the rest of us progress.
I’m glad the first post was made. Made all the others kinda useless.
43 posts already. Mmm, let’s see if it reaches 171.
It says, No. (Third-party) USB 2.0 support for OS X. They say, “coming in 10.3 for other responses… but not for this one)
USB 2.0 will be supported in X.3
//
Am I to assume that you can’t buy a PC because you can’t justify the price? Unless you are buying a sub $800 computer, there is a Mac priced at every range.
//
Please dont start a “macs are comparably priced” flame war.
Yes, you can buy a $1000 Mac, the question is whether its worth it or not.
People can do their own research, let them decide that and dont keep pasisng off your OPINION as fact.
“Please dont start a “macs are comparably priced” flame war.”
I wasn’t. I was simply clarifying a statement that could otherwise be easily misread.
“Yes, you can buy a $1000 Mac, the question is whether its worth it or not.”
Yes. it is.
“People can do their own research, let them decide that and dont keep pasisng off your OPINION as fact.”
I never said that people couldn’t research it and never did I pass off opinion as fact.
Another important area that was not even addressed were future releases. The next version of OS X is imminent, whereas XP is at it’s end-of-line (eol) with Longhorn in 2005/2006 being a completely new OS which will only include an emulator for current Windows COM apps and require .Net apps to be re-compiled. It’s system requirements would break most current PC’s and MSFT is hoping that in 2005/2006 most users will be willing to buy new machines to support it. I’m not saying this is a bad thing, but it is important to note that for the most part XP is frozen, even IE is frozen and eol’ed. Whereas, OS X is being upgraded and extended continuously on a 12-16 month cycle.
Safari sees enhancements on a regular consistent basis. When was the last time we received a new version of IE? Microsoft has told us that standalone IE on Windows is eol’ed and we will have to wait for Longhorn to give us the next generation in Windows browsing. As a new user would I want to buy an eol’ed product? That is what the consumer needs to be told.
A lot of this info regarding OS X might be invalid as early as next month since Panther is coming out…not to mention the performance on DVD play back…that is largely a hardware issue and the G5 is going to be shipping in about a week (some rumors of it having started already). This should fix some DVD performance issues.
It will be interesting to see if they actually update, as they claim they do, to have a review of the new Mac hardware and the new OS.
Linux is also undergoing a lot of work now. I think Mandrake 9.2 is due for release soon…it might also fix some of the problems.
Windows…it sure would have been nice if they raised the issues of patch hell and activation. Both of which are strong marks against an OS I think (one is a privacy violation while the other is just an annoyance and indicates that they didn’t write the OS correctly in the first place).
I still don’t like Linux’s inability to make it easy to So please don’t talk about Linux againinstall software without getting a decently packaged rpm.
Have you tried synaptic and apt-get? I haven’t seen anything like it on Windows OR OSX! Linux has the easiest package management system of any OS, in my humble opinion. I can load up synaptic, search for a package by name, like ‘gxine’, double-click on it, and it resolves all dependencies, downloads and installs when I click “Proceed”.
Wow, simple. And that’s a Debian package management system adopted for RedHat and rpm. I also have something very similar on my Sharp Zaurus. Its so nice when your PDA downloads and updates its own apps from the net.
He complains about 3rd party apps on the OS X side of thing, yet mentions nero for windows. Linux just gets ignored most of the time. And OS X gets nailed for doing things the same way, or even more logically than XP.
Honestly, its the least biased article about OS X vs XP (I dont think linux was even a real consideration in this article, so its not vs Linux too) I’ve read on this site, wonder why…
*looks up to see contributing editor*
“(…) and it resolves all dependencies, downloads and installs when I click “Proceed”.”
Try explaining ‘dependency problems’ to a Windows user. He/she would laugh at you if he/she realized something like that existed.
I agree, all the advanced package management systems out there are so much better than WIndows and OSX software install. Especially system upgrades. I dont even have to reboot.
But There is APT for OSX (fink.sf.net).
really? There are PLENTY of people that have DLL problems. Yes, its not as common, but it does exist.
And look at installation sizes. Because nobody shares libraries. every program takes up more space.
I dont want my programs taking up 600MB of space, when 100MB of it could have been shared.
No, no one had ever had the problem of missing dll files (vbrun*.dll) in windows :p
Agree. I have to admit i heard about it around the net. Although me and my friends have never come accross missing .dll’s.
But you’re right, not seeing something doesn’t automatically mean it doesn’t exist.
But still, I think dependency problems are much larger for Linux than .dll problems are for Windows.
Just in case someone else has a problem getting the artical to load as I did. I mirrored it.
http://www.maniacallaughter.com/mirror/osx-XP-linux.php
“I dont want my programs taking up 600MB of space, when 100MB of it could have been shared. ”
You know, when I recommend systems these days, even if it is for the cheapo-crowd, I have to ask myself whether they will bang my had after a while because I opted for 80 GB instead of 100 or 120, which all can be had for “no money”. The only systems these days which are somewhat HD-space limited upon shipping are these walmart deals.
Are you trying to tell me you **DO NOT** have that extra 500 MB on a modern disk for programs?
@Play DVDs:
“Many titles don’t play correctly.” And why? Because of this non open DVD standarts, wich have to be hacked to support it!
AFAIK mplayer (http://mplayerhq.hu/homepage/design6/info.html), xine (http://xinehq.de/index.php/features) etc. play much more formats then any other player.
@Supported disk formats:
> EXT2, EXT3, ReiserFS, FAT, ISO9660, etc.
And MUCH more! (e.g. xfs, jfs)
@Remote control:
VNC + Telnet isn’t all! X11, ssh, rfb etc. also exist’s.
I would say: X11, VNC, Telnet, ssh and much more.
@Scripting support:
Ruby & Tcl isn’t Mac only!!!
Linux support’s it too! And much more!
I think all major script language are also available on windows, at least with cygwin.
And why are some Linux “via application” red, but WinDVD etc. isn’t?
I agree, all the advanced package management systems out there are so much better than WIndows and OSX software install. Especially system upgrades. I dont even have to reboot.
OS X has package management. It’s called a….. package. Try doing a “show package contents” sometime on an application. Personally I’d rather mount a disk image and then drag the application to wherever the heck I feel like putting it as the entire install process. The only OS X apps I have seen that don’t use this process are ones that need to put things in the library (fonts, etc…).
I have to reboot OS X about once a month (whenever a security update comes along). But I have never had to do it for an application install (that I can recall).
I think you are right.
We all should stop optimizing our code. Also, in times
of DSL and cable modems, it is ok to have 5mb images in
your webpage. Games should have all details on. Forever.
Who doesnt like it, may buy a new GeForce, or Radeon. Hey, we all have the money.
I appreciate you for finally saying what we all think:
We have the power, we have the capacity. So use it. Without contradiction.
just for Quicktime.
You know, if you BUY a computer with say Mandrake on it and it has a burner and all the other stuff mentioned as can be complicated. It would be all configured for you. Did you download OS X or M$, NO.
I’m not saying that OS X & M$ don’t have there place, but I think the article is a little bias and rediculus. Your comparing to pre-fab builts to a download, of course everything wont be configured for you. If you re-load M$ on a box, with all your software and config’s be back in place. Don’t think so.
Your right, just because I have the space, I should waste it.
More files = slower performance, more clutter, more chance of error.
And I have a 40GB drive. I bought it a year ago, are you saying I should have to buy an even bigger one now?
DJ Jedi Jeff:
//
I have to reboot OS X about once a month (whenever a security update comes along). But I have never had to do it for an application install (that I can recall).
//
Once a month? Thats a lot if you are running a critical server. You ONLY have to reboot linux for kernel updates, which are not very often, and never really essential. Most security updates are in “programs” anyway.
5.) You want to “Think Different” without looking queer.
<p>4.) You need an OS as unreliable as your ’83 Ford Fairlane.
<p>3.) It’ll help you get a job. Oh wait, nevermind, it’s not 1999 anymore.
<p>2.) You have an extra $299 from your unemployment check.
<p>And the number one reason to buy a computer with Linux pre-installed:
<p>1.) You want to make uglier friends.
eeeehhhh wrong answer. not all linux users are fat, ugly, introverts with no friends. please go back under your bridge.
“And I have a 40GB drive. I bought it a year ago, are you saying I should have to buy an even bigger one now?”
No. I have 40 GB myself. The system is W2K with about 20 apps, OOo being the largest (not a gaming system). I don’t do mp3 or file-sharing; Though I do hold a couple images of various Linux for rsync, etc… after about 2 years, I have still 8 GB left and I certainly don’t see how these would be eaten up by apps. I would really see a big difference if I had 500 MB more or less now. Btw, I see Linux start doing the same thing…
In reality I don’t reboot my machine once a month. Many of the security updates involve things that don’t matter to me (for instance, the recent exploit to break the screen saver password – something that will not affect my machine at home or a network server).
But if you really want to skip Software Update and do the update manually you are free to do so. Software Update is a feature, not a requirement.
On the other hand, nothing in the review indicated that its primary focus was for critical servers. On the contrary, it seemed directed at home use.
There is nothing wrong with this article other than it is not up-to-date, and applies a different set of standards on each OS. Besides that, it pretty much contains no practical real-world information on any of the OS’s reviewed. If you take all that into consideration, then the article may make some sense to you.
LOL
Quote:
“””5.) You want to “Think Different” without looking queer.
<p>4.) You need an OS as unreliable as your ’83 Ford Fairlane.
<p>3.) It’ll help you get a job. Oh wait, nevermind, it’s not 1999 anymore.
<p>2.) You have an extra $299 from your unemployment check.
<p>And the number one reason to buy a computer with Linux pre-installed:
<p>1.) You want to make uglier friends.
eeeehhhh wrong answer. not all linux users are fat, ugly, introverts with no friends. please go back under your bridge.”””
I got some friends! 😉
It seems to me that the authors points about the following areas are wildly innacurate:
1) Disk Cloning
2) Fitt’s Law
3) Application uninstallation
4) Virtual Dekstops
5) Web Server
6) UI appearance and useability in general
7) VoIP
Disk cloning has NEVER been better than Carbon Copy Cloner. Ghost sucks compared to it.
Despite links to Fitt’s Law, the author forgets that the whole MacOS is based on good Fitt’s Law compatibility (with a few problems) rather than the very broken Fitt’s Law implementation in Windows (with a few good spots). Yes, there are problems in the OSX UI, but the “grade” that it got is not representative of reality. I love how the “good” rating for XP goes to an MS site, but the bad rating goes to asktog.com, who made a criticism about OSX’s interface back in the 10.0 days (which have now mostly been fixed). Funny.
Application uninstallation: “but there’s no denying that the Windows method is more consistent”. So wait, in Widows if I want to delete a document, I have to drag it to the trash, and if I want to delete a bit of text or a picture I have to cut/delete it by a menu, but if I want to delete an application I have to go to a control panel. In OSX, if I want to delete an application or document or any draggable item I can send it to the trash… and which one is inconsistant? Sorry, Windows is MUCH MUCH MUCH more inconsistent on isntallation/uninstallation and a great many other things….
Virtual Dekstops: Umm.. there are lots of third-party virtual desktops for OSX… poor research. Also, the point of the OSX GUI is that you shouldn’t NEED virtual dekstops to get your work done. Thus the reason Expose’ is coming out in Panther…
Web Server: Sorry, but a web server should be judged on more than just whether it has a web GUI or not. Also, apache on OSX is not supposed to be a full fledged server (for that you should get the tools in OSX Server). This was an unfair way to judge the OSes
UI in general: It just seems that the author of this shootout was trying to find places where XP does something right and compared to it, OSX sucks. The problem is that a lot of stuff in XP is not needed in OSX because the design of the interface is correct the first time without adding useless crap to a crufty interface.
7) Voice Over IP: umm… this needs to be updated. iChatAV is really nice.
In defense of XP: Now, there are areas that XP does shine over OSX, but the author does not indicate them.
Ok these this os is better than this os articles are getting old, apple got rid of the whole IRQ crap, that might be a reason for OS X not crasing.
>4.) You need an OS as unreliable as your ’83 Ford Fairlane.
Sorry, but there was no Ford Fairlane in ’83. Maybe you wanted to say Ford Fairmont instead… then I would understand!
The comparison was posted by a magazine called PC Buyer’s Guide. Most magazines with “PC” in their names are dedicated to Windows products. How can you expect such people to be fair with the operating systems that function on a PC but aren’t made by Microsoft ?
The convention used in the article is that red represents the worst implementation of a feature. How is it, for instance, that Windows XP doesn’t get a red mark for filesystem support (it is FAT and NTFS centric) ? Why give one to Linux (Wine) when it comes to legacy applications ? After all, win32 programs are not legacy applications in a linux environment. There are many others inconsistencies in the paper.
The shootout was a good idea. I just hope it will be conducted in a better way next time.
> And the number one reason to buy a computer with Linux pre-installed:
A real Linux user wouldn’t buy a computer with Linux PRE-INSTALLED. They would savor the opportunity to nuke Windows or MacOS in favor of something better. (I will never forget my first GNU/Linux install on my iBook, too bad the f^cking iBook only has ONE mouse button! ARGH!)
Shut it! I’m also a windows user, and am feeling a bit queezy when he gives EXCUSES to try, and make portions of windows as functional as the other OSes;
Example: “Trashcan always on top” Windows ~ optional (‘yes’ if dragged to taskbar). C’mon give a dawg a bone! If this is your idea of the trashcan always being on top then it is a very cruddy implementation of it.
This is the user modifying the OS to do this, and is in no way the true intent on the functionality of the OS (besides when you do this the end result is a smooth as raking your nails over a chalkboard; you should’ve left this out, and about 7 other, and counting, of that table). Windows (truthfully) just doesn’t have the trashcan on top, and if so it should have been in red due to the fact that it steals valuable desktop realty. I would add some others that give me great pains, but I have things to do.
I think Linux was severely downgraded in this article. Common even OSX and WIndow zealots acknowledge Linux’ networking prowess. Not a word was mentioned about Linux with regards to it’s networking functionality and tools.
And package management, common Linux arguable has the most sophisticated package managers, I’ve seen on any OS. Gentoo’s portage comes to mind.
Ah well, I guess most Linux users are used to all this discriminations.
Regards,
Mystilleef
But still, I think dependency problems are much larger for Linux than .dll problems are for Windows.
That is no longer a problem with recent distros’ package tools, such as URPMI, and the graphical frontend to use them.
Seriously, I haven’t had to deal with dependency hell in over six months! The only time I’ve had problems since was when the rpm repositories were being updated, and a package required another package that hadn’t been uploaded yet. I waited half an hour and tried again – it installed right away.
The article really didn’t say too much. It tried to compare different features of each OS but it is so out of date that many of these comparisons are no longer valid. I really don’t see how it’s possible to compare these different OS’s. If you are used to using an OS and you get used to how it works you tend to stick by it and find workarounds for it’s shortcomings. I’ve always liked Macs but it’s great to see Linux doing so well. It will be interesting to see how things play out when MS finally gets Longhorn out.
Apple has a graphical remote login that wasn’t mentioned. Though the windows vnc like app(proprietary protocol) was mentioned.
Ok im not mad here or anything just annoyed that they clearly haven’t researched some things. I’ll just do Mac OS X for now:
(1) There are Unistalls for certain apps but for the most part dragging something to the trash is a lot easier then uninstall
(2) iChat AV there is voice over IP
(3) Mac OS X can coexist with other os’s than 9 like Linux,FreeBSD,etc (should be a no brainer)
(4) For skins/themes use Duality (people on ResExcellence.com use this like crazy)
(5) To resize fonts use TinkerTool
(6) Use codetek virtual desktop for virtual desktops
(7) USB 2.0 is in the G5’s
(8) there are thirdparty apps that play quicktime in fullscreen and do loops
(9) You can resize the dock, hide the dock, use TinkerTool to put it at the top (which on a mac doesn’t make that much sense but hey whatever you wanna do), and there are many 3rd party apps that allow you to alter various attributes
I think the greatest thing about Mac OS X is that there isn’t a lot of stuff thrown at you and you can quickly get what you want. Please look into stuff like this before posting a article like this making people think these are their only choices.
I don’t want to get in any debate abouf which distro is best or which OS is. But as for the DVD players in linux, there’s 2 that can play DVDs in a much better way than WinDVD for example.
1. mplayer: this player can play anything. you don’t even have to extract files from .tar, .zip. It plays DVDs, as well. And it has all codecs. No need to get them manually as with WMP, The Playa, etc etc.
2. xine: not as good as mplayer, but it’s better than players in windows imho. and it plays DVDs. it has a great GUI also.
Windows is getting worse and worser!
that wasted 10 minutes of my time and i will never get it back.
the prices of windows is wrong too. didnt they just go up?
Is it me, but is it unbelievable the ratings given to co-existing with other operating systems.
How the hell can windows come out top here.
Every distro I have ever installed plays nicely with others, while windows wipes out the boot sector, meaning you cant boot other systems, without some ugly hacks
Compare Microsoft’s ClearType to anything available on Mac or Linux and you will find that the difference is not subtle. Fonts that are blurry on Mac and Linux are clear on Windows XP.
It is unhealthy trying to use a Mac screen or Linux screen for any significant amout of time because it wrecks your vision.
Anyone who cares about their eyesight should be using Windows XP with ClearType turned on and be using DVI digital LCD monitors.
“It is unhealthy trying to use a Mac screen or Linux screen for any significant amout of time because it wrecks your vision.”
I can’t speak on behalf of linux because i don’t use the OS, but you’re absolutely wrong about Mac OS and OS X.
“Anyone who cares about their eyesight should be using Windows XP with ClearType turned on and be using DVI digital LCD monitors.”
When you consider the fact that ClearType is Apple technology… your argument is somewhat flawed.
http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9812/08/cleartype.idg/
Most of the negative comments about Mac OS X sound like they were made by someone running a slow machine with no memory.
I think that the speed of DVD Movie playback is much more stable and reliable under Mac OS X (Especially since 10.2) than ANY PC I have ever used. Even people I know with top of the line PC system are impressed by DVD Playback on my PowerBook G4/500 (and especially my PowerBook G4/1GHz) or even my PowerMac G4/450.
Vis-a-vis ClearType being Apple technology… will the Mac-heads please stop their endless lying? It just plain sickens me to see so many otherwise healthy individuals turned into pathological culties.
Quoting some article from a developer of a competing technology who is trying to discredit one of Microsoft’s few real accomplishments is typical of Mac-heads and their penchant for twisting the truth — aka reality distortion.
From an article by someone who knows what he’s talking about, not some disgruntled hacker (aka Steve Gibson) —
“Some critics have offered the opinion that ClearType is derivative of work done about 20 years ago in conjunction with the Apple II computer. This may be a confusion between introducing a problem and solving it.
I will argue against this viewpoint after I summarize the common elements. The Apple II used a conventional broadcast-style (e.g. NTSC) COMPOSITE-color video CRT display, leveraging the low price and huge installed base of such an appliance -a very sensible compromise, and a universal choice among video-game makers of the 1970’s. Unfortunately, such an election came at the expense of image quality.”
…
“For those who are naive enough to suggest that “Apple knew how to do ClearType two decades ago on the Apple II”, I ask why haven’t Apple color laptop computers using color matrix displays always done what ClearType now achieves? Too much pot in Cupertino? Sorry, I don’t buy that. The guys who created QuickTime? Nah.”
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Ridge/6664/ClearType.html
In May 2001 Microsoft received its first ClearType patents from the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office. Other patent applications are pending.
Apple and Linux have nothing that compares to the clarity of ClearType.
I’m sorry some of you think the article is out of date. If you haven’t looked at it since Aug. 10th, you should take a look at the newest updates, which may address some of your concerns.
Corrections are welcomed, and I am aware of certain difficulties with naming third-party apps. In the original draft, there were NO third-party apps listed at all, but there has been huge demand for acknowledgement of apps that typically come “free” with drives and other devices — hence the mention of Nero, Retrospect, etc. Generally, however, I don’t want attempt to list every third-party solution in existence. It’s already tough enough to present the three platforms in an accurate light. 🙂
Again, let me say: I welcome your corrections. I’m already aware that some of you don’t consider VNC or Telnet a decent remote access solution on the Linux side. Disclaimer: I don’t run Mandrake currently, but it was one of the most full-featured distros I could find. I’m currently running Xandros, Lycoris, Knoppix and ClarkConnect on my Linux boxen.
For the record, the Mac upon which I’m typing this message is a dual 1.25 GHz model, so I think we can safely say it’s not an old, slow model for a while yet, at least.
I mention iChat AV as an extra-cost option. I am aware that it will be bundled with the (extra cost) Panther. I’m working on an update to the article that will include Panther, by the way.
For better or worse, I’ve tried to present an article that presents the pros and cons of each platform in an even-handed fashion. There may be a few more (or less) red and green marks appearing in future updates to the article, as part of this ongoing effort to compare and contrast the three platforms’ approaches to the issues outlined in the chart.
Why do I even need ClearType? The type is just fine on my Mac.
Whats your point? People all over the world use Macs connected to ADC or DVI displays with no problems.
I think the comparison would have been less controversial if it had simply reported the facts and not tried to reach an overall conclusion. Obviously, with such different advantages and disadvantages, any conclusion is going to necessitate making some assumptions about the needs and desires of the purchaser. So after going to all that trouble to compare by dozens of features, it seems like the conclusion at the end detracts from the article.
I see nothing fair in comparing single versions of two OS’s to multiple versions of another.
If you want your article to be fair, choose the one OS which represents the platform and use it. Windows XP-Professional is no more representative of the average Windows user than OpenVMS is representative of consumer operating system.
Hey… where’s Bluetooth? I use it everyday. Windows has yet to implement anything real with Bluetooth while the Mac paves ahead. Also, what about iSync? The entire concept that applications all work together was grossly overlooked in the comparison. They also forget to mention the great SAMBA abilities of OS X.
The fonts on RedHat 9 are quite nice, ClearType or no ClearType, compared with WindowsXP. This is with identical monitors and video cards. Font anti-aliasing really does work fine under XF86.
The fonts themselves under WinXP are a little better, but the next round of Linux distros should be using BitStream’s fonts, which should cure any remaining inequalities.
A side point: am I the only one who finds IE totally unusable for browsing the web at this point? No pop-up blocker, no tabs… the first thing I did when I logged onto WinXP was install Moz and ditch IE the best I could.
-Erwos
Have you ever looked in your Windows Registry after uninstalling an App or some apps don’t even remove your directories that the app created. I don’t see this as a strong point in Windows.
As for the OS, use whatever will get the job done for yourself, if Mac fits the bill so be it, any of the distros of Linux that’s your choice, and if you like MS so be it.
Also if you are a gamer there is more support for games in MS. I very seldom play games and am very happy with my choice of running Red Hat 9, it does what I need it to do.
Funny because whenever someone gets a new notebook I show them how to turn of menu effects etc for speed, and then I show them cleartype font rendering, and let show them how to turn it back to the default. Guess what, they all turn it back.
P.S. -> I prefer clear type
This is the first, and hopefully last, time I’ve ever said this about any article. Every article I’ve read that’s had some slant or bias thus far, I’ve let get away. But man… this one’s a winner. Slant!
Fun read though, I guess.
Instatnt Messaging: where’S LICQ, micq usw? there’s far more out there than jabber.
Remote control: who need’s ssh? It’s so useless
Voice over IP: Gnomemeeting??
Supported disk formats: Aren’t there missing a few filesystems like jfs and xfs?
artition cloning utility: hmm good old dd is also missing
Network Bridge != NAT lol that so stupid
Trashcan always on top: anyone need this “feature”?
Unified DVD playback: quality poor?? what are they testing? xine 0.0.1 or what?
The Person who wrote this has used Linux? To many wrong things int ths comparison -> useless
one thing i think that is important to mention is that macs have firewire disk mode although more temporary than tcp/ip over 1394 it is probably faster and easier to use
this topic will reach at least 92 messages.
To be honest – I switched cleartype on this morning, and when I switched it straight off again (it’s like trying to read after 10 pints) it left all bold fonts anti-aliased. Any ideas how to switch the whole lot back off? It seems to be worst in the the Open Source Progs I have on my system, although IE is affected as well.
Also, do I have to use IE to switch it on/off?
Why is ssh useless? I have set up an FTP server, without X of course. I connect via ssh to admin it. Btw, I admin it from a W2K box.
should be a joke, I use ssh over I-Net. But even mentioning telnet as methode for remote access makes me agressive.
“yes, with limitations
(OS X does not support RAID on boot drives)” This is untrue, I boot from a striped RAID array on my Power Mac G4 with OS X 10.2.6…
When he was comparing OSes , why didn’t he talk about
# 15 Mins install time of a typical Linux distro
# About the great support you get from other Linux users in numerous web forums
# About the clean uninstall in Linux
# About most of the config files being in simple text files easily editable remotely
# About the amount of the customization you can do to suit the niche needs
# The tremendous speed of XFree86 when using via LAN
# About the possibility to compile the machine specifically for your hardware (Gentoo, LFS etc etc)
# And many more such features I discover everyday in my new linux journey
yes, yes, I know most of the features listed above will only be used by a few, but how many of us “trash can on the top”?????
Biased at best
Hmm – the Mac OS’s are not the worst here. Take the menu bar: the reason it is at the top of the screen is because of Fitts’ Law: The size of the menu bar is effectively infinite in one dimension, whereas on Windows and Linux (except for the Gnome bar) it is finite in all dimensions. By infinite I mean that you can roll the mouse cursor up, and keep on rolling it up as long as you want, but it will always stay on the target.
Fitt’s law states that the time taken to “hit” an object with a graphical pointer (mouse cursor) depends not just upon the distance of the target from the current position of the cursor, but also upon the size of the target: as the Mac menubar is infinite in one direction, the target is effectively bigger and it is quicker to use despite (usually) being further away from the pointer.
For Fitt’s law, Mac OS leads the way by some margin with Linux occasionally second and Windows way behind.
geee, can’t even use a better player than VLC for DVDs, and there are still Zealots saying Linux is ready for desktop.
Really, how embarassing can it get?
Mandrake is known to be the most user friendly Linux distro out there, but judging from this comparison, Linux is hardly ready for usage at all.
Nice to know that Linux still has at least 4-5 years before any Joe User (90% of the population) will be interested at all.
Good work OS X and XP though… both really nice for home usage
quoting XBe:
Nice to know that Linux still has at least 4-5 years before any Joe User (90% of the population) will be interested at all.
endquote
I was never that interesting in seeing that 90% of the population using Linux. See, no matter how easy it is even easier than the vaunted Mac, users do not care.
It is more interesting to see Linux continue to make business side inroads for tech personnel. All our Unix programmers and system administrators have made the move so far. They really like KDE and I was surprised about how little the fuss level was among this group.
Be careful dissing this niche, it kept Sun and other Unix manufacturers making workstation products for awhile plus companies like Exceed made money on this market for a long time as well.
How usable is Linux? Well, it is very usable for the System Administrators, Software Configuration Managers, implementation engineers and programmers that live in a Unix world.
Striving for the home usage market is a losing proposition unless Microsoft makes a huge stumble.
I like Gnome for example and nautilus scripts alone make my daily work a lot more productive. Using my scripts within a Graphical File Manager is nice. Apotheke (a cvs view) for nautilus makes my day to day work on the repository easier. I can use OpenOffice for those occasions I get the Office docs. (I also like Gnumeric.) At home, I do my checking account work on gnucash. Most everyone here works off Evolution so we can do the appointment requests and such. Gaim now has file transfer in the IM. I am happy.
The home user might not be. However, I never wanted a XP clone/equivalant for free. I wanted a Unix environment on x86 hardware. Pretty much the same goal that Linus had when he started out on the kernel. Linux satisifies that itch for me.