There is an interesting article on Gamespy about sales of console game units. This is relevant to an OS oriented forum because of the underlying struggle for real estate. Both Sony and Microsoft covet the space on top of your TV. The so-called “set top box” is seen by both as the key to dominating the converging worlds of entertainment, communication and computing.Sony may or may not have stumbled onto this realization after it introduced the first PlayStation. Even if it wasn’t part of a master plan, they clearly realized by 1996 that they had a great opportunity. Thus the PlayStation2 which was the first mass-market entertainment computer. The PlayStation2, Clie and Vaio are almost identical in kind even if very different in detail.
Sony owns the high-end of consumer electronics, and anything that might be so described is a target market for them. I’ve competed against Sony in the broadcast market. Although they are not supermen, they win more often than they lose, and I gained a great respect for the company and its products. They don’t have a single grand plan for world domination. That’s not how they do things. Instead, they look for progressive opportunities, and places where they can establish new standards. They want to be leaders and are genuine in their encouragement of new markets.
Sony wants to own the underlying technology in every market as much as possible. But when they get that ownership, they don’t use it to stifle competition. They like to charge a toll. The better the market does, the more tolls they collect. For example, Sony co-owns the Audio CD standard with Phillips. Every audio CD produced generates a cent or two for Sony and Phillips. Sony hates to use other people’s standards. That’s why Sony devices take the proprietary Memory Stick. This style of benign dictatorship has worked very well for the whole consumer electronics industry. It will probably continue to work as long as wise and cool heads rule at Sony.
The Beta/VHS war scarred Sony deeply. They have never forgotten or gotten over it. The lesson they learned was to never again let such a prize slip their grasp. They also learned that they can’t win that kind of battle through confrontation alone. They are now past masters at getting industry support for standards more often than not owned by Sony. That is no easy task in the hyper-competitive Japanese market. But they’ve done it more than once. Don’t get the impression that Sony are all nice guys and gals. They are utterly ruthless when they need to be. Nobody gets what Sony’s got by being soft.
Microsoft, on the other hand, is a 2 hit wonder. They make gobs of money from Windows and Office and lose gobs of money on everything else. Gates and Ballmer have been looking since the late 1990s to expand MS’ base beyond the PC. They recognized early that the PC market was headed towards saturation. To keep growing, they had to find new markets. That’s why they’ve poured money into Cable TV and phones, among other things. Gates was also smart enough to grasp the importance of the set top box. Long before people listened to music on their computers, he saw that a computer like device would become the hub of home entertainment. He also saw Sony running away with the prize. There was not much to do but chase them. Gates was astute enough to see that Sony would never be an ally in consumer electronics.
MS determined that the path of least resistance was a game console. It would be hard to convince people to buy a computer to run their entertainment systems. But it would not be hard to convince them to buy a computer to run their games with. Microsoft’s first pass at the market was in partnership with Sega. The doomed Dreamcast ran a version of Windows CE. But Sega went bust. So MS embarked on the Xbox. It would be the thin end of an MS wedge to take control of entertainment. This explains the seemingly bizarre move by a software company into the home electronics market. And it is a very different kind of market. With razor thin margins, punishing upgrade cycles, nasty channel partners and huge fixed costs, it is not a business for the meek. But that’s OK, Microsoft is not meek. And it has deep pockets. It would need them.
Sony got a big jump with the PS2, and MS had to leap-frog the technology to be taken seriously. Given their inexperience and the pace of the market, the Xbox is a pretty impressive achievement. But MS couldn’t figure out how to get the trade-offs right. Its very difficult to meet the hardware goals and still hit their price point. The result is a rumored US$100-US$130 loss per unit. And that was at a US$299 price point. These days, an Xbox with a game and online kit goes for US$179. In contrast, both Sony and Nintendo make money on their respective consoles. One would expect a significant decrease in cost to produce the Xbox between its launch 2 years ago and today. But unit sales have been less than half what was expected. A nasty public squabble with Nvidia last year suggest the losses continue.
When the Xbox launched in November 2001, MS forecast as many as 6 million units installed by end June 2002, and parity with the PS2 in 2003. That has not happened. The remarkable table below is from the Gamespy article and has been painstakingly assembled by their correspondent Ara Shirinian. It shows clearly that MS has failed utterly to put a dent into the Playstation. The PS2 has far outsold both the Xbox and GameCube combined.
Even more significant is the second table. This confirms figures I’ve seen elsewhere for the first six months of 2003. The Xbox was outsold in the first week of September in Japan by the PS1!!! Conventional industry wisdom holds Japan is the most important market for consoles, because that’s where the most popular games come from. If Japanese kids aren’t using a particular console, Japanese game companies won’t be making games for it. The failure there has been complete and total. So grand that its hard to see how MS could ever launch a successful device there in the future. Another tough reality in this market is the diffusion of power. No one company holds the kind of sway MS is used to holding in the PC arena. So credibility matters. It matters when wooing developers to make games for your platform. It matters when trying to get shelf space at retailers. It matters when trying to get the lowest possible cost with OEM factories in Taiwan. Money talks, but it doesn’t buy respect with these people.
The conventional wisdom also says there is room for only two consoles at any one time. #3 always gets squeezed out. However, MS has such deep pockets that they can certainly outlast Nintendo if they want to. Even so, Nintendo is only one mega-hit game away from pushing Xbox into third place in North America. If that were to happen, embarrassment might force Ballmer’s hand where money did not.
| Estimated Current Installed Base (Various Sources) | ||||
| Console | North America | Japan | Europe and others | Total |
| PlayStation 2 | 26,420,000 | 14,170,000 | 19,400,000 | 59,990,000 |
| GBA | 14,540,000 | 9,240,000 | 7,920,000 | 31,700,000 |
| GBA-SP | 830,000 | 820,000 | 460,000 | 2,110,000 |
| GameCube | 5,130,000 | 2,470,000 | 1,950,000 | 9,550,000 |
| Xbox | 6,200,000 | 1,000,000 | 2,200,000 | 9,400,000 |
| Units Sold, Sep. 1-7 2003, Japan only | ||
| GBA-SP | 38,872 | (41.1%) |
| PlayStation 2 | 29,248 | (30.9%) |
| GameCube | 16,841 | (17.8%) |
| GBA | 8,132 | (8.6%) |
| PSOne | 531 | (0.6%) |
| Xbox | 530 | (0.5%) |
| WonderSwan Crystal | 302 | (0.3%) |
| WonderSwan Color | 90 | (0.1%) |
| Source: Media Create | ||
Many people said this would happen to the XBox from the start. MS thought it would be alright to just try and dump a bunch of stereotypical Japanese games into the market and the console would sell itself. Then, the pretty much pulled out of the market after not getting the initial sales boost they wanted and pretended nothing ever happened. Oh sure, they kept releasing games, but it was obvious the the commitment was no longer there. With the XBox losing money all over the place, I would think they could have been a little more dedicated to Japan.
“This is relevant to an OS oriented forum because…”
No need to justify your news post before peopel even finish reading them.
A gamespy article actually made this interesting point. History shows that new companies rise and steal the video game crown from the dominant company at the time.
Nintendo stole the crown from Atari, Sony stole it from Nintedo… and we are getting to a point where it may happen again. Time is running out for Sony.
I also think the video game market is big enough for three players (as opposed to 2) But then again… I never thought SEGA would go bust…
Yours faithfully
Loyal Dreamcast, Gamecube and PS2 Owner.
…its about microsoft
As soon as the Xbox came out, my impression was that it was nothing more than a repackaged Intel based PC. I didn’t buy one and have no plans to buy one.
The fact that it had “Microsoft” on it didn’t play any part in my decision to not buy it.
I had a PS1 and now have a PS2 for gaming.
“Sony owns the high-end of consumer electronics, and anything that might be so described is a target market for them.”
I don’t agree with that statement at all.
I spend a lot of time in audio/visual forums, and the concensus is that the quality and reliability of Sony’s A/V products has significantly fallen behind it’s competitors in the last few years.
Right but that would not stop Nintendo from stealing it back.
“The so-called “set top box” is seen by both as the key to dominating the converging worlds of entertainment, communication and computing.”
KEY to strategic domination!? Hardly. People are still buying plenty of purpose-built DVD players, TiVO-style DVRs, satellite and cable company set top boxes, etc., etc. PS2’s and Xboxen are used for playing games and nothing else, I’ll bet.
I don’t see much of the market relying on their PS2’s for all of these capabilities when the satellite and cable people mandate their own set top boxes (and nothing else) for their services. And Sony doesn’t seem to be porting TiVO capability into the PS2 either now, does it?
The XBox had no brand-name recognition except that it was from Microsoft, and I think people really didn’t know what to expect out of a console made by Microsoft.
That said, the XBox seems to have excellent market penetration amoung the demographic of people who have not purchased a console system in recent history. The XBox seems to be highly favored amoung those who haven’t bought a console since they (or their parents) bought a NES/SNES/Genesis.
The XBox in Japan faced the toughest scrutiny of all. It was an American console in a country which is elitist about their own products. Microsoft certainly didn’t help matters by making it enormous.
I think Microsoft has succeeded quite well in getting the XBox name out there. Hopefully they have learned from past mistakes and will do much better with the XBox 2.
That said, I own an XBox and only one legitimate XBox game (JSRF). My primary uses of the XBox are the XBox Media Player, MAMEoX (MAME on XBox), FCEUltra (a NES emulator), and PCSXBox (a PlayStation emulator)
In order for a PS2 or it’s successor would need massive changes, and would need to be flashable to keep up with enhancements in the digital cable/satellite spectrum.
I have digital cable, and only certain types of boxes are used (all from Scientific Atlanta).
If Sony (or MS) tried to enter those markets, I’m sure folks like Scientific Atlanta would raise a big stink with regulatory boards.
Marketting has IMO been X-Box’s problem.
PS2 has those futuristic commercials, and games that span multiple genres and age groups. The box looks cool, with all rith ridges, and little blue leds.
Gamecube is a bit childish (which in large part explains their lack of market penetration) looking, and has childish marketting.
X-box, has green slime. Green slime? What where they thinking?
Nice article. I think in Japan also, cute platform-games are very popular and there are a great many on the Nintendo gamecube, but hardly any for the XBox – I wonder if this too has affected its popularity in Japan.
i bought one a year ago on massive $50 discount, and i have all the games i could want, in all the categories i could want, and it simply rocks.
also the superH processor is cool and vga is clear.
http://www.msicomputer.com/product/detail_spec/product_detail.asp?m…
http://www.interact-tv.com/products.php
Not goofy game consoles.
I mean, you’ve gotta have more good games than just Halo
Just thought to point out that this is the best article I have read in OSNews in a long time.
My 2 cents: Microsoft has been known to throw keep throwing resources ($$$) in projects (IE, for instance) until the competition fades away. Heck, even it’s iTV (remember webtv) is still active. Of course Ms won’t back down from XBox; the idea of ruling in the living room is irresistible to them.
I think in the end it all comes down to games.
PS2 was the first to market (with the next gen consoles), and when it was released had a couple of pretty good games available at release. It also had some worth while (and high profile) releases shortly after release. I think that cemented them as this rounds leader. PS2 also had Squaresoft and Enix almost exclusively for the life of the PS2 (until recently).
Gamecube was released a year after the PS2 and Nintendo seemed intent on publishing only kids stuff (based on what it did publish), and had no real blockbuster games until a year or so after it came out. Nintendo seems to have relied almost completely on it’s in house talent for games, for that period of time, as third party support, until recently, wanted nothing to do with Nintendo. (side-note; according to a GMR interview, Nintendo has no intention of doing the Set-top box thing, and I say, great!) I didn’t buy a Gamecube until Metroid came out (a few of my friends bought one for that game), and now I prefer the jaggy free display of the gamecube over the ps2.
X-Box didn’t have any real high profile (except the niche Halo) games when it came out, and really still doesn’t. They really need to get some good games on the system, through either third party or first/second party.
I think the next round of entries is going to be very interesting, especially with many of the previously uni-system developers (like namco and square-enix) branching out to other systems. The right balance of early to market and quality games at launch, in the next round seems crucial this time, IMHO. I don’t think graphics quality, access speed and other technical properties will matter much (ps2 is the slowest amoung the current gen consoles and it kicking arse).
BTW, I don’t think making a console into a set-top box is very important (though admitedly, I probably would not have run out to get a ps2 so early if it didn’t have a dvd player built in. Actually the ps2 is still my primary DVD player).
“These will be the kinds of devices that take over the living room…
http://www.msicomputer.com/product/detail_spec/product_detail.asp?m…..
http://www.interact-tv.com/products.php
Not goofy game consoles.”
Nah, they won’t, at least not in my opinion. They do too much for one single machine. I mean, I would love to have one, and other young people as well. But stuff like purpose-built dvd-players appeal to all ages, because they are more simple to use.
People still mainly use their computer for internet & word processing.
I meant to add to X-box, that their games seem to all aimed at older people, even their platformers. That’s an issue they need to work on (sort of fits with their 80s-like slime green marketing though).
“X-Box didn’t have any real high profile (except the niche Halo) games when it came out, and really still doesn’t. They really need to get some good games on the system, through either third party or first/second party.”
http://www.swkotor.com/
http://www.soulcalibur2.com/
Where have you been?
For those that actual remember, Microsoft wasn’t targetting children and teenagers with the Xbox, but mainly adults.
While there are games on every console the cross the various age groups, they are the exception, not the rule. The Gamecube primarily targets children and young teenagers, PS2 the teenagers and 20 somethings, and the Xbox for the 20 somethings on up. For the type of games, it’s mainly sports, realistic action, etc. In the USA of course (where I live) we seem to eat up the games that the Xbox has, mainly military style, racing, sports, etc. while in Japan they seem to like completely different styles of games, which the Xbox just doesn’t have a wide variety of, so it’s not going to sell very well there. Plus I wouldn’t be surprised if there is some “not invented here” mentality too. Europe seems to be in the middle somewhere in the style of games they like, hence the reason they tend to fall in the middle a lot (and I lived in Europe for a few years, so I do know what they like).
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As for me, I havn’t owned a game console since the early 80’s (I’m in my late 30’s), and I picked up both an Xbox and a Dreamcast on the same day right after the Xbox came out. The Dreamcast was only because they were no longer making it and a friend of mine owns a huge collection of games. What I found was that a whole lot of people I know that were in the 30’s or up starting buying Xbox’s, including many adults that never had any interest in video games just like I didn’t, while their teenagers all wanted PS2’s, and if they had children they all wanted GC’s. When I compare the games to the Dreamcast ones and with people I know from other countries, if I fire up an anime style game the people I know from China or Japan love the games, while I find them very corny and too much flash (I feel like I’m going to have a seizure). When I fire up some military style game the same people have no interest in it at all, but my other friends (Americans) want to play and find these types of games great.
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The Dreamcast and PS2 covered a wide audience, the Xbox is not trying to cover the same yet, so it’s very obvious it’s not going to sell well in countries like Japan because playing Ghost Recon or Return to Castle Wolfenstein is not what the “average person” in many Asian countries will want to play. This is the same reason why the GC seems to be shrinking in the USA, the probably already sold to most people that will buy it, people are buying Xbox and PS2 consoles though.
Sorry about the
‘s in the message, Slashdot posting habit, so please don’t comment on them
Ron
At last count, they had $6 billion dollars in cash. $6 billion. This is their only market, and with that kind of cash they can fight for it.
I’d stop short of calling the Xbox a flop (at least outside of Japan) just yet. For first time entrant, 2nd, 2nd and 3rd place in the three big markets really isn’t that bad, and some statistics I’ve seen have even shown Microsoft making serious gains over Nintendo in the STB market. I’d like to make two observations:
1) The PlayStation was not an overnight success. After it had been out for a year and the Nintendo 64 only 6 months, Nintendo had already outsold Sony by 50%. Here, the current leader had the big lead in release date (about 2 years in Japan), so Microsoft is even worse off.
2) Internet Explorer was released in 1995, but didn’t overtake Netscape until 1998, also behind Microsoft’s schedule. Of course, Microsoft was able to exploit Windows in this case, but, as before, they’re willing to through a lot of money away to make a real dent in the market.
I think that, save something really strange happening soon, the Xbox is going to become the MSN of consoles; not an AOL-killer (PS-killer), but profitable and a good entry point for Microsoft into a market where they were initially at 0 market share.
Nintendo’s market, apart from the “kiddie” market, is that of the lifelong gamer — the gamers that have made gaming a part of their lives for well over a decade. These gamers value core gameplay over frills, both in terms of hardware and software and desire titles like Ikaruga and Viewtiful Joe — games that today’s new gamers would turn up their nose at, but gamers who grew up on Galaga and Double Dragon would wet their pants over. The problem with this approach is that these “old-school” gamers make up a rather small percentage of the total gaming populace. Nintendo still has this whole “games should be fun; nothing else matters” mindset carried over from the 80s that other companies don’t.
On the other hand, Sony’s marketing constantly drives home the appeal of the PS2 as a mass-market appliance for everyone, but something that’s still “cool” for the teenage crowd. Microsoft’s approach targets “PC gamers who aren’t PC gamers” and college-age or older crowds who never really saw the value of console gaming before.
Microsoft and Sony are already in the digital set-top-box markets, and have been for a very long time (longer than they have been in the business of making game consoles).
With regard to the X-Box, I have always wondered who will make the decision that it has become untenable. A common argument is that Microsoft has such reserves it could financially support the X-Box even it was doing poorly in the marketplace. Yet isn’t Microsoft publically traded? Don’t they have a board of investors? I would imaging that if the X-Box was severly cutting into Microsoft profits for an extended period of time, investors would want the company to drop it. I doubt investors who are in Microsoft for the money would want to persue an unprofittable enterprise.
The Xbox is very developer friendly. I develop for all 3 platforms and the Xbox is the only one that every artist and programmer would love to develop exclusive content for. It’s fast, has double the memory of the others and renders really well polys with several passes. This whole MS bash is just BS. In Japan they don’t buy Xboxes because it’s not japanese, people. Wake up. They are very xenophobic and wouldn’t buy an Xbox if it was yellow with large round black eyes and a lightning bolt shaped tail. Better start helping our console, because they couldn’t care less for anything built here. It’s big and it’s ugly, but it’s the best so far.
What about the Europeans and all. The Japanese make better products. Live with it. Sometimes Americans make better product. The Japanese should live with it. The problem is some people think they can just export US centric games to places like Japan. Among the highly developed nations, Japan is really peculiar. If you do not understand the market, you will not make any headway in the market. They like things like anime, which is really catching on elsewhere. They (rightly) seem not to care too much about raw processing power, but about actual nice to play games. Elsewhere, everything is a rehash of the same old. FIFA 2000/2001/2002/2003 then what – 2004?
I used to play games quite a lot (on PC) but grew frustrated because the games were al the same. If its a FPS, it plays in a certain way, driving games are becoming too similar. Its not always about the driving. Its not always about the ‘tight’ visuals. Games are not written (scripted) well now. Too many rehashes, and that is why they do not sell.
Sony certainly doesn’t own the “high-end” consumer electronics world. I own exactly 1 sony product and it is the only product they were ever any good at making, Picture Tube televisions.
Nearly every other device they make there is another manufacturer that makes a better one.
Video cameras? Canon and Panasonic.
Digital cameras? Canon and Nikon.
Projection TVs? Mitsubishi.
Stereo equipment? Denon, NAD, Arcam, Pioneer (and about 30 others)
Portable audio? Apple
I admit the CLIE is probably the best PDA out there though. Past that, Sony is really a low-end to mid-grade consumer electronics firm.
Xbox is a much better product then the GameCube or Playstation 2, hands down. It doesn’t take a hardware specialist to see that the rendering speed of the xbox is many times better then the GameCube and PS2.
Sony played us all for fools when the PS2 hit the market. The graphics and rendering weren’t that much different from the PS one! But all the sudden the Xbox came out with it’s stellar graphics and rendering, all the sudden the PS2 games got a high in quality. Sony was hidding the true power of that machine from the market. Not to mention the company is just picking out of your pocket book. PS2 still stayed with two controllers – pay extra for four controller connector. PS2 couldn’t connect via CAT5 for internet play – pay extra for an internet connector. PS2 never had a hard drive – pay extra for an external hard drive. Talk about reaping the money! PS2 has been far behind the competition for some time. The xbox set the standards for video game systems here people.
It’s not that hard to notice that the Xbox is a higher quality game system.
EA and some other game developers need to get their heads out of their ass and start working with them, not against them.
People need to open their eyes, Sony has you all in their little pocket! They give you a crap system, and then make you flip the bill when someone else figures something better! Please. I’d rather take a single $179 hit for the xbox, then mutliple pay loads to Sony!
Maynard: I used to play games quite a lot (on PC) but grew frustrated because the games were al the same. If its a FPS, it plays in a certain way, driving games are becoming too similar. Its not always about the driving. Its not always about the ‘tight’ visuals. Games are not written (scripted) well now. Too many rehashes, and that is why they do not sell.
The same thing can be said about alot of stuff. Alot of anime seems the same to me these days. Alot of console games seem the same to me as well. So do alot of novels. Etc… Yet they sell.
No… The reason they don’t sell well is because they were releasing the wrong type of games to capture a large percentage of the Japanese market.
For example… The Japanese supposedly like RPGs alot. (I wouldn’t know that for sure since I haven’t lived there) But have a look at the games for the Xbox. I sure can’t think of any RPGs, besides upcomming ones and even then, I can’t think of many of them.
Also… Supposedly the Japanese aren’t big on online gaming because Internet connections cost too much over there. (Once again, I don’t know this for sure.) Microsoft has been focusing alot of attention on online gaming.
As far as I can tell, they never really did a good job of targeting it at the Japanese.
… the only reason it failed was what MS did… with only a year of the Dreamcast been out MS came and anouce a console of their own… hiping it big time… taking advantage from the trickery that they (MS) played to Sega… Having the developers contaminated with their Windows (been windows ce in dreamcast) and just using Sega… among other things
I won’t comment any more… Microsoft Killed Sega… read the details yourselves…
and Nintendo is in the game…
Sega was having trouble ever since the 32X … but MS betrayed Sega in Sega’s last atemp at getting back in the game, there was no reason for MS to release (even anouce or think) that thei wanted to realease a console been them ALREADY involve in a console with Sega… that is treason… betrayal…
nought said
Here is what I think happened with Xbox:
1. Xbox is physically too big. Japan is a nation of miniturazation. They like everything small and slick. I guess folks in Microsoft just don’t get it. Does the size matter?. Absolutely. All the Microsoft execs had to do was to take a ten minute walk though Ikihabara of Japan and they would realize big and bulky translates old and outdated.
2. Microsoft goofed up bigtime in Japan. If I remember correctly the first batch of Xbox sold at Japan had some defects. Customers lined up to get a replacment Xbox but Microsoft’s usual PR tactics made a big fumble. Instead of replacing them immediately and apologizing profusely, they thought that if they ignore the problem the problem will go away. This sort of denial has worked for Windows but not certainly in consoles and certainly not in Japan.
3. Microsoft obviously believed that they can just bully their way into a completely new
market. They immediately started cutting deals with game makers for exclusive titles. They also started buying the whole company when they didn’t want to cut deals. This initial aggresiveness made the game developers immediately perceived Microsoft as a threat and competitor rather than a partner they can do business with. What happened with Xbox Live and EA is no surprise.
4. “It’s the software stupid!”. Superior hardware capability doesn’t mean jack. It’s the software. When pepople are buying a console they don’t care if the cpu inside is faster or more ram. People care about what titles are available. It’s surprising that Microsoft the biggest software company in the world didn’t understand this fact. I guess they still had the PC mindset. Sony PS2 had a one year head start in the market and they fumbled big time because you couldn’t buy one for months. What Sony did right was they didn’t have any shortage of titles. Microsoft Xbox needed to come out with a bang and have hand full of must have titles. Instead they had this trickle of games that no one really cared.
5. They didn’t think marketshare was important. Strange as it may seems all the evidence points to this. Sony PS2 can be used as a DVD player right out of the box while Xbox was crippled and required to buy something extra to be a DVD player. Everyone one in the console industry knows people just don’t buy addons for consoles. Right from the start PS2 is perceived as having more features than Xbox. Microsft execs thought that if people bought Xbox for DVD playback that would be a bad since they don’t make any money on it because they are not selling any games. On the contraray more console Microsoft sells, there are more potential customers who will buy the games. This larget market share only helps the game makers because larger number means there are people who can buy games. Instead of trying to sell as many consoles as possible they spent their energy going after small time Xbox hacking groups. This ofcourse adds to the image of being big bullies.
6. Target audience for Xbox is all wrong. Xbox is targetted for an older hard core gamers. Guess what… Hard core gamers already have the ultimate gaming system. It’s called the PC. In a sense they were trying to compete with them selves. These hard core gamers drool over the latest video cards for ungodly amount of money. They are not interested in buying a two year old platic box with seemingly underpowered obsolete PC parts.
You don’t know the facts my friend – MS didn’t kill the DreamCast, Sega did a good job of doing that themselves!
Any person knows that Sega poured too much money in the development of the system that they could pull out the cash to get the good game titles. They simply ran out of money to keep the product afloat. Microsoft had nothing to do with it. Sega just did poor management when developing the system, hands down.
And the rate MS is going, throwing money in marketing that is already failing, the Xbox will probably have the same fate.
6. Target audience for Xbox is all wrong. Xbox is targetted for an older hard core gamers. Guess what… Hard core gamers already have the ultimate gaming system. It’s called the PC. In a sense they were trying to compete with them selves. These hard core gamers drool over the latest video cards for ungodly amount of money. They are not interested in buying a two year old platic box with seemingly underpowered obsolete PC parts.
I’m sorry but on this point you are completely wrong. Being hardcore just means you live and breath games. It has nothing to do with the platform. Plus not everbody thinks of the PC as the ulimate gaming system. I know plenty of older hardcore gamers who could care less about the latest pc specs. Hell some of theses guys don’t even own a pc but have just about every console system ever made with game collections in hundreds. Tell me how these guys are any less hardcore? Real hardcore gamers will play and collect just about anything, whether it be the latest PC with an overpriced video card or a well used 2600.
mountainpenguin: 1. Xbox is physically too big.
Maybe the PS2 is smaller in Japan. But to me, my Xbox only looks like it’s slightly larger than my PS2.
mountainpenguin: Microsoft Xbox needed to come out with a bang and have hand full of must have titles. Instead they had this trickle of games that no one really cared.
Depends on your tastes. There’s a number of “great games” on the Xbox, if you like what they have. For example… Steel Batallion (Which some people label as the most expensive game ever. But I don’t believe that is quite accurate.) is only available on the Xbox and I know a number of people who like it alot.
But not everyone likes the same thing. Some people like RPGs for instance and honestly… I can’t name a “real” RPG that is available for the Xbox at the moment.
mountainpenguin:Instead of trying to sell as many consoles as possible they spent their energy going after small time Xbox hacking groups.
Yep. They also keep you from copying some save files from your hard disk to memory cards. So if something happens to your Xbox, or if you want to take one of those saves to a friend’s house, or if you buy an Xbox 2, guess what happens…
Anonymous (IP: —.sympatico.ca): Being hardcore just means you live and breath games. It has nothing to do with the platform. Plus not everbody thinks of the PC as the ulimate gaming system. I know plenty of older hardcore gamers who could care less about the latest pc specs. Hell some of theses guys don’t even own a pc but have just about every console system ever made with game collections in hundreds.
That’s true.
Some people prefer the simplicity of the console. You insert a game, it just works.
Some people see good gaming PCs as too expensive.
Some people prefer the controllers of a console to those of a computer.
Some people like the games that they can find for the console better than those they can find for the PC.
I think the reason why PS2 has continued to sell well, is because a lot of people know someone with a PS2. 2/4 player modes are a lot more fun when all players have practiced at home. It’s also nice to know that you can borrow a game from a friend.
Now people know about Xbox, and that it’s superior to PS2. The problem is that so many bought a PS2 before Xbox became popular. If Microsoft releases XBox2 before PS2, and it has quality games, the situation will change. Perhaps the next MS-console after XBox2 (Xbox3?) will even outsell PS2
I think Nintendo will stop making consoles like GameCube, and focus on the hand-held marked. Perhaps they will release a combination of Gameboy and mobile phone? Sony have tried to do hand-helds, but Nintendo is too strong.
Xbox has some awesome games comming out like
Rainbow Shield 6, Project Gothem 2, Sega Gt Online, Dungeons and Dragons Heros, Top Spin, Amped 2, Music Mixer (Online Kareoke Music/Video Arranging),Counter Strike in the next few months and Halo 2, Half life,Doom 3, comming out soon 2.
Kotor (Kinghts of The Republic is Awesome!!) .. All those titles Xbox xclusive on consoles, most only for xbox.
Xbox is the best console ever, xbox live rox.
LOL, none of those games appeal to me. Half of it are PC games that are better played with a mouse. Only Halo 2 looks exciting. At least the Cube and PS2 have some truly great games, like the Dreamcast before it. The Dreamcast, along with the PC Engine, have the best good-to-bad game ratio ever on a computer.
Xbox has a very narrow collection of games, that only appeals to certain kinds of people, mostly Americans and PC gamers that want a more trouble free experience (no drivers etc).
Most hardcore gamers I know (who have ALL consoles) don’t value the Xbox as best and I actually know more people with a Xbox that just use it as a media player/Linux box.
“Video cameras? Canon and Panasonic.”
I think you should add JVC to that list in just about every category, but especially this one
.
Man people hate MS so much. Not there is reason not to.
I have the DC, PS2 and XBox.
All three have good exclusive games, but I find I am playing the Xbox more. I guess because the games are geared to Americans.
As for the MS hate, people got to get over it.
I mean MS didnt kill the Dreamcast. Sony did.
When the DC came out Sony spread all the FUD, not MS.
The PS2 has many more RPGs which are big in Japan than Xbox, but Xbox has many more Sega ports which I think is cool
Xbox live is pretty much locked by Microsoft which is why EA will not use it, where PS2’s online play if more open and they will share more of the $$$. Also Socom rocks.
PS2 is great because it offers Linux and invites software hacking. Something MS should consider.
PS2 you don’t need a remote to make the DVD fucntions work which is cool, but I have more DVDs freeze or become blocky on my PS2 than my Xbox (yes I have the DVD software update)
I like the PS2s usb and firewire ports, but not enough stuff uses them.
Both platforms are good. I think those who just don’t bother wil the XBOX because of MS is loosing out on some good games
The quality of the postings here is really impressive.
To the person that argued Sony doesn’t make the best products in many areas, you are correct. I didn’t make my point clearly. Sony “owns the high end of the consumer electronics market” in a business sense, not a technological sense. They rule in things like market share, profitability and channel saturation.
To all who discussed the cruicial question of why the Xbox has failed in Japan, thank you. The story didn’t address this issue, because I don’t know why it has failed. All of the points you made, taken together, pretty much explain it. In particular, mountainpenguin’s “didn’t get it” post nails a bunch of issues convincingly. I find his points persuasive because all of these things would be more of a problem in Japan than elsewhere. Exactly reflecting the regional differences in Xbox sales.
what a bunch of ingnorance.
the author fails to point out that, even withou japanese “success”, the xbox is still growing in the marketplace.
idiots
“X-Box didn’t have any real high profile (except the niche Halo) games when it came out, and really still doesn’t. They really need to get some good games on the system, through either third party or first/second party.”
Umm… WHAT? How about KOTOR, Splinter Cell, Project Gotham racing, etc? Not too mention that some of the new releases look promising such as D&D Heroes.
All the PS2/Gamecube fanboys are just jealous of the XBox HD and other killer hardware.
Oh gee, can’t wait for the PSX… Oh wait, I can!
Xbox live is way better than ps2 online. Its way better than PC online gamming.
*Every game has voice, every player has a mic
*Voice built inside each game with small packets (best quality/performance)
*Universal friends list, global GamerTag
(Im DuckeR
* XSN Sport Network
* MSN/SMS integration
Of course theres also better graphics hard drive and better games.. go look up the lsit i mentioned each one a certain killer.. Rainbow 6 for xbox is going to be the best fps ever. Therse also True Fantasy Online, True Crime, Vice City , Sudeki .. comming .. arg so many games..
The thing about these consoles both PS2 Xbox and GC is that hardware is so powerful that the factor that limits the game is simply software. This will only increase in coming generations. Sony though a ruthless consumer electronics company they are not as software savvy as MS. With consoles coming now with HD (file systems) and more and more complicated OS and SDK’s, MS has significant advantage over Sony and Nintendo that are not Software companies. For no matter how many terra bits the PS3 can crank through its six buses unless Sony can provide developers with the right tools and kits and understanding to develop on and use to its fullest potential they will not be able to compete with MS for the next generation. Its now pretty clear that the next generation of consoles will have PVR capabilities and be fully online appliances. They is no way that Sony can compete on the same level as MS when the Xbox is based on the PC architecture.
The model of basing a console on the PC is great, for we all know cutting edge parts only cost a lot for a couple of years and then the cost decreases dramatically. While MS may have been loosing $100 dollars on parts two years ago by the end of the life cycle of this generation the current Xbox should be selling for a profit.
I can’t blame the board of EA for not wanting to sign on to Xbox Live any time soon. They are probably still trying to justify spending hundreds of millions on there own servers, the last thing they want to do is pay MS to use there servers.
I absolutely agree that the next generation of consoles will replace set top boxes and the combination of PVR and file sharing may even replace cable and traditional content providers also.
SOME OF U PEOPLE ARE FREAKS IF YOU THINK THERE AREN’T ENOUGH GAMES ON THE XBOX BECAUSE THERES AROUND 400 IN THE U.S. YOU MUST HAVE NO LIVES IF YOU THINK THAT IS NOT ENOUGH- I COULDN’T PLAY THAT MANY IN 50 YEARS.
PLUS WHO CARES IF SONY HAS MORE GAMES, I THINK ITS THE QUALITY THAT MATTERS. NO RPG’S?? WHAT ABOUT SUDEKI-EXCLUSIVE
PIRATES OF THE CARRIBEAN- BEST GAME , MORROWIND, ELDERSCROLLS, ENCLAVE, THESE ARE ALREADY OUT IN AUSTRALIA SO I CAN’T IMAGINE JAPAN, OTOGI,WHATEVER ELSE.
BACK TO HARDWARE OF COURSE IT MATTERS WHICH IS THE ONLY CONSOLE GETTING HALF LIFE AND DOOM ??/ BECAUSE PS2 AND GAMECUBE CAN’T HANDLE EITHER ONE.
LOOK AT THESE GAMES THAT ARE GOING TO WIN THE MARKET SHARE FOR SURE-
SUDEKI-EXCLUSIVE
RARES GAMES- EXCLUSIVE PERFECT DARK, KAMEO, ETC ABOUT 5 OTHERS. THEY ARE GOING TO BE A HUGE BLOW TO NINTENDO AND A BOOST TO XBOX.
TOP SPIN- EXCLUSIVE, BEST TENNIS GAME EVER?
B.C-EXCLUSIVE
KOTOR-EXCLUSIVE
HALF LIFE 2- EXCLUSIVE. THIS IS GOING TO BE A CONSOLE SELLER AND DEFINETLY BETTER THAN HALO.
HALO 2-EXCLUSIVE AND HUGE, PS2-GIVE UP WHILE YOUR AHEAD.
DOOM 3-EXCLUSIVE AND ENOURMOUS. IF ANY OF THE GAMES I’VE MENTIONED SCORE LESS THAN 9 I’LL EAT MY SHORTS.
TECMO’S GAMES- EXCLUSIVE.NINJA GAIDEN, D.O.A, AND MORE
RESTURANT MANAGING SIM- ??EXCLUSIVE?? BIG BLUE BOX= GENIUS’S.
SPLINTER CELL
RAINBOW SIX-EXCLUSIVE?
TRUE FANTASY-EXCLUSIVE
PHANTASY STAR-EXCLUSIVE
N.U.D.E JAPANESE
DINO CRISIS-EXCLUSIVE
AMPED 2-EXCLUSIVE
PROGECT GOTHAM 2 -EXCLUSIVE
CHROME EXCLUSIVE
ABES ODYSEE 4- EXCLUSIVE AND HUGE
SEGA GT EXCLUSIVE
CRIMSOM EXCLUSIVE
DEUS EX
STARCRAFT GHOST-EXCLUSIVE
ENCLAVE 2
STEEL BATTILLION 2-EXCLUSIVE
THE MOVIES- LIONHEAD, PETER MOLLYNOX= BEST GAMES.
MATRIX 2
GRAND THEFT AUTO= BAD FOR SONY.
SHOULD I KEEP GOING????
FINE I’LL LEAVE THE BEST GAME EVER BY THE IF YOUR JAPANESE YOU BETTER LISTEN CAUSE ITS AN RPG CALLED FABLE EXCLUSIVETO XBOX ITS BEEN WORKED ON FOR 6 YEARS BY THE ONE AND ONLY LIONHEAD/BIG BLUE BOX/ PETER MOLLYNOX. I CAN’T DESCRIBE HOW GOOD IT IS.
SO XBOX OWNERS ARE GOING TO GET ALOT OF GAMES PS2 WILL MISS OUT THEY’VE ALREADY BEEN DROPPED BY iD AND VALVE CAUSE OF HARDWARE DIFFICULTIES.