Admit it, you do want to own a Mac. But for some specific reasons –mostly higher prices, especially out of US– most of the people don’t take the big decision to try out Macs. Yesterday Apple released brand new iBooks and updated eMacs, which in conjuction to the existing G4 PowerMacs, come in very affordable prices. Dive in to see some simple feature comparisons between Mac models and prices, which can help you make the big step towards Mac OS X. The time is right, prices are right, feature-set is right too and Christmas is coming soon!The need for a Mac
Of course, Apple offers more high-end machines, like the Powerbooks, the XServe, the G5 PowerMacs and even the iMacs. But newcomers are not usually ready to shave off a lot of money for a platform they don’t master yet. These potential switchers are more likely to try and get some cheaper machines, and this is why this article will try to help out these cunsumers to choose the machine that is right for them.
First, you need to decide if you need a Desktop (from $799), a Workstation (from $1299) or a Laptop (from $1099). Think what is your main need: just a web/office station, a powerful multimedia/development platform or mobility, and decide accordingly.
Desktop
The eMac and the iMac line are the ones marketed as educational and desktops-only machines. The iMac is a sexy machine and more powerful than the bulkier eMac, but it comes with a heavier price. For platform newcomers, the eMac might be more suitable, as it starts at $799. In the previous eMac line the bottom-line model was really spartan and I wouldn’t recommend it, but the new low-end is a really capable machine. It features 1GHz PowerPC G4 (256 KB cache only, slower than other desktop G4 machines), 40GB Ultra ATA drive, Combo drive, two firewire and 2 USB ports, ATi Radeon 7500 32 MB, 17″ CRT embedded monitor. It’s only sour point is its 128 MB of RAM, but you can easily upgrade it yourself.
Good points: Cheapest G4 ever, combo drive, includes everything needed for a modern desktop. Suitable for a first Mac, students.
Bad points: Not enough RAM in the cheaper model and also s-l-o-w RAM, expandability only through USB 1.1 or Firewire 400.
One can also decide to go for the higher end eMac model, which at $1099 can give you 256 MB RAM, 80 GB disk and a SuperDrive. However, my suggestion would be that if you feel like paying that extra $300, you might as well consider buying the below model instead.
We should note that people who decide to buy an eMac, there is a software choice to get Keynote presentation software for $49 (normal price $99) and Final Cut Express for only $99 (normal price $399).
Workstation
Yes, the PowerMac G5 is here. However, the PowerMac G4 is still a very capable machine, easily compared performance-wise (to some non-G5-optimized applications) to the 1.6 GHz G5 model which sells for $2,000. The uniprocessor PowerMac G4 comes with a 1.25GHz PowerPC G4 (1MB L3 cache, helps overall speed a lot), 256MB DDR333 SDRAM (faster RAM than the eMac’s plain SDRAM), 80GB Ultra ATA drive, Combo Drive, ATI Radeon 9000 Pro (Dual Head), Firewire, USB 1.1. This model is available for $1,299.
The dual configuration is identical to the uniprocessor one, but it comes with two 1.25GHz PowerPC G4 with 2 MB L3 cache per processor (that’s 4 MB of cache!). This model sells for $1,599 and it is the highest/fastest model of the “value range”. I have special love for this model and I fully recommend it if you do have the extra cash and if you are a definite power user. This model the exactly the one I want to buy for myself too, to replace my soon-to-age Cube G4 450 Mhz. I am drooling over it since Apple lowered its price a few months ago with the introduction of G5.
Good points: Cheap raw performance (great performance/price ratio comparatively), expandable, perfect for power users.
Bad points: No built-in USB 2.0, slow RAM for a modern workstation/desktop (but still faster than eMac’s).
Laptop
The new iBooks look great. Meanwhile, Apple still sells the previous G3-based entry iBook model for $899, but I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone, not even if the price was $799. The new G4-based iBooks start at $1099 and they come in three flavors. The cheaper model has a 12″ XGA screen while the other two models have a 14″ XGA one (better for people with visual problems). It comes with 800 Mhz, 933 and 1 GHz option with 256 KB cache. All have 256 MB DDR SDRAM (128+128 unfortunately, which means that you need to ‘throw away’ one stick when upgrade your RAM), combo drives, 2 USB 2.0, 1 Firewire 400, NIC, modem, ATi Radeon Mobility 9200 32 MB. Disks come with 30, 40 and 60 GB flavors. Personally, if the CPUs are real G4s with Altivec in these machines, I would not be afraid to go for the lowest-end model even if its processor power is not as high, because it is smaller, lighter and with more battery life (smaller screen, while retaining the same resolution as the 14″ models) .
Good points: Good features for the price, good for a first laptop/Mac, cute machine.
Bad points: No high-end model with 12″, entry price point could have been $999, the 128+128 MB fiasco is annoying.
Laptop Shoot-out
Check the matrix below to spot the differences between the 12″ iBook (from $1099) and the 12″ Powerbook (from $1599), because some users were confused over what the real differences are between the two models.
12″ G4 iBook | 12″ G4 PowerBook |
800 Mhz CPU | 1 GHz CPU |
256 KB cache | 512 KB cache |
VGA (mirroring), S-Video, Composite Video Out | Dual Head, DVI |
ATi Radeon Mob. 9200 32 MB | nVidia GeForceFX Go5200 32 MB |
Bluetooth-ready, not included | Built-in Bluetooth |
640 MB max RAM | 1.25 GB max RAM |
133 Mhz DDR SDRAM | PC2100 (266MHz) DDR SDRAM |
30 GB hard drive | 40 GB hard drive |
Combo drive | Combo or Superdrive option |
Built-in stereo speakers, microphone, headphones out | Audio line-in, headphones out, stereo speakers with midrange-enhancing third speaker, internal omnidirectional microphone |
Airport Extreme Ready, 802.11b certified | Airport Extreme Ready, 802.11g and 802.11b certified |
4.9 lbs, bigger/heavier overall | 4.6 lbs, more compact |
Up to 6 hours of battery | Up to 5 hours of battery |
Price: From $1099 | Price: From $1599 |
Conclusion
So, no matter what model you decide to buy as your entry to the Mac world, don’t forget to buy more RAM. Buy it from Crucial or other places to save some money, and make sure you put in there at least 512 MB. Mac OS X likes a lot of RAM, it is a Unix after all.
One of these machines can be a great Christmas gift to yourself. Think about it, Mac OS X Panther 10.3 is a great OS (our review), and you wouldn’t be reading this very web site in the first place if you hadn’t had a spark of geekness inside you.
Note: If you buy from the Apple Store, use this link and help support OSNews.
I’m pretty annoyed of “OS X” way of doing things – Somehow just disgusting that operating system assumes me to be stupid and retarded who doesn’t know anything.
After years of using (should I say “putting up with”) Windows and Linux, I bought a Mac last July. Best choice I’ve ever made, and I’ll never go back to Windows.
I have to disgree with the above comment, as an avid Linux user, I’ve not found OS X to treat me like I’m stupid in anyway. The interface is very intuitive, with exceptional drag-and-drop support (which I love), unlike the Linux system in which many things are counter-intuitive.
“Are you saying that people buy a $999 machine and then a couple of months later start adding parts $100 or even $50 bucks at a time breaking open their box each time and toying with their computer?
Normal people?
Bull. Most normal people buy a box and buy all their office stuff once. They use it till it is antiquated or they see a really neat new computer they want more. They ditch the computer and software and then buy a new one. I am talking office staff, managers, soccer moms and basically 99% of the bloody population.”
I don’t have facts or figures to back this up but it seems true to me. I just asked the 30 people in my class if they upgraded their computers within 6 months of purchase and 2 did. We are 4th year IT management students, and I would suspect that we would be more likely than most to upgrade, but we haven’t.
People who would buy eMacs would be more likely to be your average computer user in that they would not be too worried about what is in the box, or how a CPU operates, but more interested in the fact that they can access the web and do the stuff they want to.
Having said that, I would not be likely to buy a eMac, for the reasons stated ie.. no real upgrade path. But that’s not to say that I would need to upgrade in the first place.
I think we do need to remember that people who are interested in technology (like us?) are not the majority when it comes to computer users. I think if you look at the success of the “flavoured” iMacs you might agree that cute designs and colourful cases matter more than performance to quite a few people, if not 99% of the computer using public.
Your joking right?
Bob the manager next door looks at breaking open his box and messing with the cords with the same sort of awe and mystery as the idea of breaking into their TV to replace the tubes.
I did not say that people are not buying macs because of the lack of an upgrade path. Some people make their decision based on this even if they have never upgraded a computer in their life. I just said that most people never upgrade their computers even if they buy on the low scale.
Perhaps those people who you believe are ditching those antiquated computers would have kept them longer if they were upgradeable.
All the Dells and Compaqs and Gateways I have seen my friends and family ditch over the years were upgradable. The thought of upgrading the mother board or even in many cases the memory does not pass through their heads at all.
The idea of adding a new hard drive for more space is a scary experience to most of the population short of the geeks in the world.
“you are kidding yourself if the mass market upgrade more than their Ram.
either that your you only know powerusers/geeks.
I know lots of normal people and none of them would dream of craking open their computer to rip out a part. sure, some pay for upgrades at compUSA, but if you keep doing that, you end up losing mor emoney than if you had gotten an iMac.”
I don’t know what the percent of people that upgrade is, but I do know the issue comes up when people shop for computers, which can affect someone’s decision.
Do you people ever get tired of turning *every* single mac thread into exactly the same flame war as always? Seriously, get a grip already, different people have different preferences, accept that and move on.
The bottom of the line macs are a joke, they need to be at speeds over 1.5ghz, after all the top of the line pc cpu is over 3ghz and anything under 2ghz sells for next to nothing.
jobs is happy raping people over hardware and too gutless to take on microsoft. screw apple until they smell reality and put out some comparably priced (to pc’s) systems.
mambye it is becasue Unix and UNIX LIKE OSs use the idea that if the RAM is there and can be utilized, use it!!
less swaping is needed with that meathod than is withthe meathod of “save memory, don’t allocate any more than the program needs at this instance becasue you never know, swaping out if you need toload another program? no, just swap all the time so you don’t have to do it when you load a new program”
the foot print of a user land program has nothing to do with the way an OS manages memory.
the Unix way allows the end user to see benifits from adding more memory, the other way does not.
“Admit it, you do want to own a Mac.”
No. Not really. Nothing against them, I simply have no interest in owning one whatsoever.
I’ve sat down and used many Apple machines before. Apple II, Powermac, G3, G4, OS 7, 8, 9 and X. Cube, iMac, iBook, you name it. Nothing wrong with them, but I just can’t get excited about any of Apple’s products.
Some of the software is nice. Some of it is pretty. Same goes for the machines and the cases. But it isn’t about money or stability or applications — I just don’t care about them one way or another!
Maybe not having a strong reaction to a computer makes me strange. Oh well.
You should go buy a Mac!
No. Not really. Nothing against them, I simply have no interest in owning one whatsoever.
This is cool. This is the most rational response I have ever heard from someone on this site lately regarding NOT wanting a Mac. It also reveals something very important that a lot of people are missing.
People like different things.
I don’t like Windows. It is not about sticking it to MS or anyone else. I just don’t like Windows or the Windows way of doing things.
So, what do I do? Being a unix engineer the choice is just too simple. I use linux.
This guy does not like Macs. That is cool. He is not going into some long and IMO worthless diatribe on cost/power/apps analysis of the Mac versus the PC or OS X versus XP or anything else.
He just does not like them.
Why is that line of thought so hard for some people out there to understand?
“after all the top of the line pc cpu is over 3ghz and anything under 2ghz sells for next to nothing.”
Does that go for the 2-GHz Opteron? Or does the Mgz myth only apply to Mac vs. PC?
You Windows and Linux guys and girls are hilarious. You obviously have some deep psychological problems that Eugenia has touched on somehow.
For those of you Linux people that say KDE or GNOME has a better interface than OS X. That is also very funny. And you say that OS X is limiting? Also very funny. My _favorite_ thing about Linux (and I play around with a couple computers with Linux) is how bad they are at correctly finding a configuring hardware drivers. Then there is the issue with them not being close at all (this actually includes Windows) at detecting digital cameras and video cameras and being able to import and edit picures and video).
As for applications including games. No you can’t get everything. But NOBODY plays EVERY game. If you do you don’t have a life and I have to wonder where you get all your money from. There are PLENTY of games out there for Macs in all the styles/genres of games.
The excuses for Windows and Linux users about Macs being too expensive is just so lame. It’s the difference between BMWs and Chevys. BMW does not try to sell more than anyone else. They cost more than Chevys because they are built better. RAW speed, smashing the gas pedal down and getting the highest straight line speed is not an indication of which vehicle is the best. The same is true about computers. It’s the usuable speed and the applications that best use that speed. The more time you spend working on your computer to keep it running fast should be deducted the speed rating of that computer. Then you would have a much better idea of usuable speed that a computer has.
Of course you won’t get this. Ostriches love to stick their heads in the sand. Apparently you do too.
Well, you’ve forgotten about people that like Macs, want to own one (well…actually I have one, but that one doesn’t count – just an old Quadra 650) and could accept the normal price of 799$ + taxes & border customs, but have somehow harsh time accepting that Apple.pl adds those taxes and customs to the “real price + 50%”…
Too bad Mac articles always ends up attracting trolls and cheap PC b@st@rds. They remind me of the crazy liberals who shun people for thinking differently to impose their radical and dangerous beliefs onto others.
I’m lucky enough to be forced to work on a Mac, and there’s no way I’d spend my hard-earned money on this junk.
Somewhat OT – Do you know if macsales ship to Europe (Sweden to be precise)? Does the GF4 MX card requier som unique American voltage (watt, or whatever you call it), or can you buy the card and plug it into a European machine without it frying the whole thing?
My Linux/Win2k dual boot is fine with me.
@Donald
They remind me of the crazy liberals who shun people for thinking differently to impose their radical and dangerous beliefs onto others.
Cooool
Another troll in the troll with absolute no connecttion with the subject.
Hey people do you know that 90% of the posts here get kicked even in Slashdot ?
PS: don´t forget to use your right to vote in 2004. Dude, where is your country ?
linux/win2k dual boot.
i truely believe its the best x86 setup
but i believe macs are better
No wonder the world is a mess with aggresive and unreasonable people who are so ready to flame others just because of their preferences
This article merely points to merits of the Macs and also the comparisons between the different model. It does not condemn Linux or Windows system.
Anyway the way I see it, the Macs look like one heck of a system cos it can run linux and Windows too. If I want to run GNOME or KDE I can do it on a Mac. If I wanna run Win2K and XP, I can do it on a Mac too
This is what i call REAL freedom of choice. Am I the only one getting it?
First, Eugenia’s article is fine, and balanced. I disagree with about half of what she says, but that’s O.K.
Second, Mac has several advantages that justify the price difference with x86 machines. These include better engineered hardware systems and a superior OS.
Third, Mac owners have not had to deal with uninvited visitors on their computer. Windows home users I know have a bunch of strange programs on their computer that frequently pop up advertising messages, spy on their internet usage and sometimes do very malicious things.
Regards,
Mark Wilson
I believe the phrase you were looking for is “fair and balanced”.
I do have to admit that I want a Mac.
I have since OS X came out. So far money has been in the way, but something inside me keeps pushing me towards getting a Mac. Although not to replace my PCs. Life with just one platform would be far too boring. So I won’t be a switcher, just an adder?? lol
Macs seem to have a LOT to offer. I know I feel like I’m missing out on a wonderful part of the computer world by not having one. Perhaps OS X would win me over and I’d “switch”.
I’m also tired of Microsoft, but I feel that Linux isn’t quite ready for me to switch to it. OS X looks like a far better option than a Linux desktop.
So that’s where I stand… I think I’ll try to save up for one of those new G4 iBooks.
Thanks for the great article Eugenia!
And to those who think it’s an ad for Apple, think about this… If she wrote it about Linux, Windows, or any other OS there would be people who claim the same. It’s not a holy war, it’s just an article.
i don’t want a mac. they are overpricey and slow compared to what i could buy for pc money. i could get aircraft carrier of a dell for the cost of a puky little ibook.
” i could get aircraft carrier of a dell for the cost of a puky little ibook.”
I take it you’re refering to the size and weight.
Rowel you hate Macs thats why you spend all your time commenting on Mac articles. I also doubt that the issue is about speed. If a Mac costs $200 you still couldn’t afford it.
I also doubt you can carry your aircraft carrier a city block.
I think macs look and work great. I want one I want a nice shiney Mac.
I use windows and linux, and altho out of the two I prefer linux for everyday use, and windows for games. with a luvverly mac i get my unix fix and great games and programs to use.
Only shame is you can’t really self build a mac, i had visions of a monster machine zapping people who looked at it wrongly. 🙂
Well, here’s to the Mac, long may they reign.
How does Virtual PC run on these new iBooks? I have to be able to practice C# (not run games) and I will need to be able to program in Java (which I assume I can do on OSX). I am just graduating and will be losing my school provided leased laptop.
How well does Virtual PC currently work for those tasks on older iBooks? Is it bearable?
dPa
I don’t think I’ll ever get a desktop Mac because I can’t build it myself. I do like the PowerPC architecture though. I’m also quite attracted by their laptops… Maybe I’ll get one sooner than I though.
However, I won’t ever cry “I’VE SWITCHED!!!” loudly and proudly if I ever get one like some people do. I think that’s lame and doesn’t make you that much different from Windows trolls or Linux/BSD zealots. Come on, it’s just a computer, not a religion…
older G4 systems.
and yes, you can do Java just fine in OS X, infact, Xcode makes it a realy nice Java environment.
I appreciate the review – and have been looking at apples because dual booting is a serious pain in the ass! and having a professional gui ( backed by a company ) with a unix underneath is a big plus for me.
joe
“Go ahead and mod this post, as long as you read it first.”
I’ll do it for Eugenia.
The main grip people historically have against the Mac are “Overpriced and under powered”
So when the 970 out, It was appropriate for OSNews to report on the Mac catching up with PC world in speed. With the price of Macs coming close to their PC counterparts as far as price/preformance is concerned, it is equally appropriate to report on that.
I can’t sneak one piece of a computer at a time through my door making my $6000.00 computer look cheap. (Sure fire way to buy hardware WITH the wife’s approval.) With my PC I watch for killer deals and then buy them. Sure it may add up, but it’s more affordable to upgrade one piece at a time. I don’t think you can do that with MAC… As in buy new motherboard, processor… I know video cards and such you can, but the real performance boost comes with a new MB and processor.
Of course there are cheaper x86 PCs and laptops than there are Macs. But the difference is diminuishing, and if you compare PBs or even iBooks with say Sony VAIOs (which probably are aimed at similar target audiences, ie hooked on design, media-centric, included software, …) Macs might even be cheaper.
That said I now seriously consider buying an iBook 12 or a PB12 instead of a VAIO TR. #1 reason: VAIOs are even more overpriced (compared to US prices) than Macs over here (Germany).
Philotech
I really wouldn’t mind getting a G4, we have the dual 1.2 at school(i think they are 1.2 or 1.4, honesty can’t remember). The machines run great and Mac OS X(jag) runs fine.
Soon I will be able to test out the G5’s, because for production 2 we use Final Cut on them….So I will probably want a G5..ha
You didn’t have much bad to say about the mac. I don’t think your articles are bad, they are good, just it seemed to me you alwyas had trouble with any unqualified positive statement on the mac. Looks like you’ve proven me wrong here.
Part of the problem here is not that Apple is so great – it’s that MS is so bad. If they had real competition on standard intel hardware – and linux just doesn’t count because of the lack of apps – then Apple wouldn’t be so vastly superior.
So to all the people that get pissed when you here us say this – the mac is vastly superior – direct that anger at MS. That’s the source of the problem.
It’s you teethless, durty people
>>>>>
WTF kind of phrase is that? I don’t even understand what you’re trying to say here.
who have the nerve to say Apple is too expensive. Yes I can buy a Kia Rio for 10,000, but its not a chevy, ford, or dodge – and i will have to fix it so offen, its not even worth having.
>>>>>>>>>
Thank god its not a Chevy, Ford, or Dodge. Amerian cars suck. I refuse to buy them — paid quite a few $$$ more for my first Volvo, plan to do so again when I get an RSX next summer. We had a Dodge that needed more repairs in its first 3 years than our old Toyota did in its 10 year service life.
Guys, Mac’s are not TOO expensive if you counter in the time you have lost because you have to fix your hardware every 30 days
>>>>>>>
Bullshit. Out of five or six machines I’ve owned, I’ve had a grand total of *1* crappy machine, and that was my Dell laptop, which was too bleeding-edge for its own good. In my other machines (going back to a decade-old 486 that’s still running) my one hardware failure (a fried modem) was the fault of my not grounding myself when taking it out.
, or visit a support site because you got an invalid function in model <unknown> in iexplorer.exe and you are looking up memory addresses for pointless evil all day.
>>>>>>>>>
Only if you use Windows. The only time my Linux machine crashes is when I tell it to (playing around in the middle of the 2.5 development series).
Sorry, you guys need to lighten up a little, go by an Apple store. As a matter of a fact, the Apple store Oct 24th at 8pm (all of them) will be hosting an event for Panther.
>>>>>>>>>>
I go by the Apple Store all the time. They’re one right here in Lenox Mall in Atlanta. I got my iPod there. When it died after 3 months of use, I had it replaced there too.
Reading anything Macintosh related on this site is a waste of time.
After you read the nonsense article you get to scroll through 100+ replies that basically say “Windows Sucks!” without any concrete information on anything.
The reasons why I have no intentions of buying a Mac are:
1. I use my Windows PC for gaming a lot, and the Mac won’t run PC games.
2. There is tonnes of software that does practically everything you’d ever need on Windows.
3. If I was going to buy a PPC box I’d buy a Pegasos because it runs cool OSes like MorphOS, and it is far cheaper.
Linux has a solid core.. yessir.. No matter how pretty you make Gnome and KDE, it’s just not as usable as OS X and the Finder.
The Linux zealots just don’t want to fess to that.
Part of the problem here is not that Apple is so great – it’s that MS is so bad. If they had real competition on standard intel hardware – and linux just doesn’t count because of the lack of apps – then Apple wouldn’t be so vastly superior.
So to all the people that get pissed when you here us say this – the mac is vastly superior – direct that anger at MS. That’s the source of the problem.
Of course, the Mac is so superior and only used by the knowledgeable elite of the society while the peons are enslaved by the malicious Microsoft. They can’t understand how it’s so good because they are too dumb… Bless the holy Jobs, the Lord and Savior of computing!
Linux has a solid core.. yessir.. No matter how pretty you make Gnome and KDE, it’s just not as usable as OS X and the Finder.
That’s subjective. Personally, I find that GNOME is useable enough for me and suits my needs. Sure, it still need a bit of polish, but it’s still good enough to be a good desktop.
The Linux zealots just don’t want to fess to that.
No, they just have different tastes. I know many people that would take Openbox or Blackbox over OS X any day.
If you compare design qualities and marketshare, Apple deserves all the praise it can get, so good job Eugenia.
Greetings from a very, very happy Mac OSX user.
“after all the top of the line pc cpu is over 3ghz and anything under 2ghz sells for next to nothing.”
“Does that go for the 2-GHz Opteron? Or does the Mgz myth only apply to Mac vs. PC?”
hey, mr head in arse, the 2ghz opteron or athlon64 run at the equivalent speed of a P4 (or apple cpu) of 3.2ghz.
apple’s mhz myth was that their cpu’s were so much faster than intel’s at the same clock speed. turns out, now that everyone’s benchmarked it to death, that is false. apple is about that same performance at the same clock as the P4.
so apple’s 1 ghz emac, $799, is equivalent to the walmart pc’s selling for $199. screw apple for price raping. os merits aren’t even considered until these prices are close. the emac should sell for $399. then we can talk os. but until then, no $ale! if jobs had any guts or brains he would have moved the hardware to the athlon64. but he didn’t because he has no vision beyond making “purty” boxes.
apple’s mhz myth was that their cpu’s were so much faster than intel’s at the same clock speed. turns out, now that everyone’s benchmarked it to death, that is false. apple is about that same performance at the same clock as the P4.
I guess that “everyone” doesn’t include barefeats.com does it?
And I believe Arstechnica concluded that G5s were about as fast as a P4 that was at 33-50% higher clock.
so apple’s 1 ghz emac, $799, is equivalent to the walmart pc’s selling for $199. screw apple for price raping
Putting aside the fact that your statement is false….rape is something done involuntarily. No one is holding a gun to your head, telling you to drop your panties, and sticking a Mac in there.
” apple’s mhz myth was that their cpu’s were so much faster than intel’s at the same clock speed. turns out, now that everyone’s benchmarked it to death, that is false. apple is about that same performance at the same clock as the P4. ”
So a 2GHZ G5 is equal to a 2GHZ P4. Where did you see this?
Thanks for comparing apple to the forced sodomy of a woman. Someone had to take the PC vs Apple analogy beyond the current “BMW vs Toyota” standard practice, and you have done a fine job.
rape is something done involuntarily
I should have said:
“being raped is something done involuntarily”
People (and most recently rubber chicken) have claimed that Microsoft or Apple has raped them because of the cost of HW/SW. That is a silly comparison.
“Someone had to take the PC vs Apple analogy beyond the current “BMW vs Toyota” standard practice, and you have done a fine job.”
ONLY at Osnews.com do you get this kind of glib verbal thrust and parry.
I think some PC users are kidding themselves when they say PC’s are “more” upgradeable. When time rolls round to upgrade (especially for the average user), the procs have different slots/configs (p3 to p4, p4 to p4c)or different fsb speed and the memory is too fast for the mobo or a different slot altogether (edo to dimm, pc100, 133, ddr, ddr2100, RDRam etc…). So you cant say its any different on the PC side. I still agree the price is high, but the build of the machine differs when the price does. Also, please people stop comparing whitebox or the cost of PC parts. Think about this, if you were building a quality PC to sell to someone, would you be selling for the price of the parts, especially since you put the effort into supplying an operating system of high calibre and all the apps that one could need in day to day life?
I recently got a quote for a dual Xeon 3GHz box for about $4k. Then I found that a dual G5 2GHz box that is at least as well equipped is $3k. So from my perspective, the only price range in which PCs are less expensive is in the bottom of the line econo-box category in which I, for one am not interested.
Am I missing something?
TomEM
umm, no, the real performance boosts happen when you add a faster hard drive and more memory.
Why did Apple cripple the iBook and only allow for 640MB memory?
They don’t even support a 1GB SoDIMM on a machine is brand new?
Did all the dotcom MBA’s end up at Apple?
640MB ought be enough for anybody… Oh, wait. Wrong company.
I don’t see that as a big issue as most laptop users won’t use that much. Anyway, the iBook is their “lowend” laptop. Get a PowerBook if you want more. I believe you’re making an issue out of a non-issue.
Great, you should get a dual G5 then! However, keep in mind that more than 99% of users ain’t interested in machines that are so expensive. The “econo-box” category is the most lucrative and probably the most significative right now.
The point is with a PC, I can economically upgrade the MB and processor and reuse components such as the CDRW, DVD drive, etc. With a Mac, I cannot purchase a new MB and processor. Therefore I must buy a new machine. Therefore PC’s have more flexability.
I agree with Zima about the exorbitant prices of macs outside of the USA, at least in some countries.
I can pick up a PC for the same price as in the USA, but a mac is often twice as much – I guess it’s supply and demand ?
Again and again I notice that people are nagging about price, the only explanation I can give is that they never had the experience of what real value is, (You are not willing to pay a decent price for something that ain’t worth much), so if you are content with less then stay with Windows, if you want more, be willing to pay more. Choice is about differences. (Think different, remember.)
Matthew, I’ll emend something, because I have the impression that your post is in large part in response to bb_matt post and…and you didn’t quite get the message.
He didn’t mean that he must pick up a Mac for twice the price of a PC if he wants one, he meant that he must pick up a Mac for twice the price of a Mac (in the US)
This is just for information purposes – there are three companies I can think of off the top of my head that offer a wide variety of Mac processor upgrades: Powerlogix, Sonnet and GiaDesigns. Also, I believe DayStar offers some for some select models.
MOST LUCRATIVE!!!
ROTFLMAO
you have no clue about the way the computer business works.
the econo-box computer has razor thin margins and barly is worth producing. the only reason to make them is so you can bring inthe customers and the sell them up to a machine that is inthe “sweat spot” of profit margines which is in the 800 – 1500 range.
you get margins of og 10 – 20% in those modles.
I had convinced my mom not to get a mac to replace her 75MHz PPC mac from ’91. I told her I could build a PC that cost less with the same features as the Mac she wanted….guess what, she wanted an iMac (the new kind)
I have been building since Pentium 133 s were top of the line 400 dollar chips, and I put this sucker together with name brand parts from Asus, Nvidea, creative, maxtor, etc.
it cost 300 dollars more than the iMac and she was pissed at me, not to mention she did not like the fact that the computer and monitor took up more room than the iMac would have, oh, and she got hit by that last round of virus attacks and had to take her computer in to get it fixed (she lives in New Mexico, I am in Michigan) she has spent more on this machine than she would have if she had gotten a mac, and there is no way I will be able to convince her to get a PC next time (and the next time will be soon becasue she is sick of this machine already)
that is nice for people like you and me, but for folks, who constitute 80-90% of the market, who can’t put a PC together, let alone upgrade an easy part like the hard drive or RAM, flexability is not anything they need, or even think about until they are told about how good it is by some one like you or me.
Seems like all people can nag Apple about is price and their prices could stand to be lower but certainly the value is their which you will never perceive if all you are fixated on is price.
Apple continues to drop their prices and their will be a point where PC resellers can no longer drop their prices. Next year don’t be surprised to see a $699 eMac. Even at that price people will complain.
How much is a PC reseller making off of a $300 – $400 PC? Can you rely on these companies to stay in business if all they compete on is price? You can’t win forever as a loss leader. What will these companies do if they can no longer lower prices? Innovate? Innovate what? They don’t do that now? Losing money on a sale is not a good business model no matter what and at the low end of computing their is ZERO loyalty especially if the brand is bad. People are always looking to move up not move into another trailer park so to speak.
“Admit it, you do want to own a Mac.”
Not really. Closed hardware + closed software? Thanks, but no, thanks.
rehdon
PC Upgrade Versus Mac
By hcuar (IP: —.ph.ph.cox.net) – Posted on 2003-10-24 05:37:54
The point is with a PC, I can economically upgrade the MB and processor and reuse components such as the CDRW, DVD drive, etc. With a Mac, I cannot purchase a new MB and processor. Therefore I must buy a new machine. Therefore PC’s have more flexability.
Partially wrong… as far as I know you can buy more RAM memory, a CDRW drive, a Samsung SyncMaster (just plug in the adaptor), a Logitech Quickcam, etc.
Let me remind you that most people doesn’t upgrade their PCs…
Latest versions of Windows ask for more resources (even more!).
There are few people that actually upgrade their PCs and use FreeBSD, Slackware Linux or other OSes. I guess that many open source software gets faster in every release.
Many PC users just buy new PCs instead of upgrading. Windows loves latest hardware.
I’ve only used MacOS 9.x. and I guess that Apple has changed a lot since they released Un*x-based OS MacOS X. When buying a new laptop I’ll decide between having an iBook (MacOS X) and a PC-laptop (FreeBSD). What I don’t like of the latter is that I’ll probably have to boot into Windows to use some components like the modem.
n0dez
Is it Time to Own a Mac?
By rehdon (IP: —.cisi.unito.it) – Posted on 2003-10-24 17:33:36
“Admit it, you do want to own a Mac.”
Not really. Closed hardware + closed software? Thanks, but no, thanks.
rehdon
It’s not that closed!
You can actually install Yellow Dog Linux, Debian Linux, Slackintosh, NetBSD, OpenBSD,… on a Mac.
PC is somewhat opened… OEMs make it closed as there is only Windows, Windows, Windows and more Windows… there are still many things that aren’t supported under other OSes like Linux and FreeBSD.
So which architecture is closed?
n0dez
If you want something that isn’t mainstream then maybe you would want a Mac, but other then that it’s still an equivalent to Fisher-Price’s “My first computer”. Yes they have come out with a more powerful OS but for most Mac users they still want to see animal pictures on the keyboard instead of actually getting down to a command line.
As far as cost let me give this scenario that I came across last week. Nice new Imac G4, so pretty and flashy, lightning strike, BAM no more operating USB ports. $700 for new logic board. If that had been a pc, drop a PCI USB card in and your good. $12 vs $700 for something as simple as USB ports. It doesn’t make sense. It was fun trying to explain that to the owner of a paralyzed pretty G4 that sure looked cool sitting on his desk doing nothing.
If people want a Mac thats cool, but all the hype about Mac being so much better then PC’s is just as silly as the one button mouse that Mac rode in on.