Although MS is looking to rope in Longhorn developers now, the company knows it’s in for a long ride.
Longhorn: Hurry up and Wait
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
Business success is all about time to market. I’m guessing that Longhorn is looking to be a disaster.
Microsoft want to do with longhorn what they did with Windows95, A lot of money. Now they are selling they product with so much features that you do not use them all (office 2003).
All companies want to make money, this is their responsibility to their shareholders, so I don’t see the problem. Regarding the “too many features”, well, Photoshop is the same. None of the artists uses ALL photoshop features. It is normal for full-featured products: not everyone needs everything, but there are people who do need some of things you don’t. So again, I don’t see the problem, I just see a lot of whining.
Ok, you win but you pay….
If another app works for what you need, and is cheaper than Office, then by all means, do not buy Office.
Office isn’t for the home user anyway. Hints the name of the suite… Office.
I can’t stand when people complain about the price of it when Microsoft is not targeting you.
If you want a cheap version of Office get the Works suite.
What do you people want? Win98 -> WinME type of upgrades every year?
MS finally is doing the right thing. They merged 9x and NT lines into XP and now working on the next version which will be truly different and innovative. Meanwhile they are letting the current platform to mature, fixing bugs and security holes, giving time to hardware manufacturers to develop good and stable drivers.
If it will take a couple of years for a truly new and innovative OS to be complete – so be it. I am not eager to replace XP, assuming that MS will continue to support and improve it.
.. but i thought i had some somewhat interesting stuff to say about Longhorn and WinFX the other day.
http://www.redf.net/comment.php?23
MS is patching security holes??? What about Internet Explorer? The most obsolete application that is still extremely popular.
I heard that there are 31 known security vulnerabilities in IE alone, and MS is doing nothing to fix this because they “won the browser wars.”
Support is there if they think they will lose customers otherwise.
“You heard” are the key words. Care to provide a link to back up your claims?
98/me to xp meant far greater hardware requirements. XP is worth it to me. It is a lot more stable.
What will xp to longhorn be like. I won’t pay a dime for bloat unless the improvements are considerable. Oh wait i don’t have a choice do i unless i want to make my own pc or buy an apple.
You do know “Unpatched IE security holes” from http://www.pivx.com/larholm/unpatched/ don’t you?
As of 2003-09-11 there exist 31 unpatched security holes in the Microsoft Internet Explorer.
Ok the site has been brought down for “security reasons” but you can still find it in the Google Cache: http://www.google.de/search?q=cache:www.pivx.com/larholm/unpatched/…
sure, if the UI is gaudy and a space hog, I will have problems with it, but having all the user space writen in managed code in interesting to say the least.
this is a good point.
I would say that the transition to Longhorn for windows will be about as huge an undertaking as the transition to OS X was for Apple.
they had worked on it for a LOONG time, and it was not until they bought NeXT that they had something good to work with, and even after that, it took them 5 years to get a usable solution. (some might say 7 years if they think Jaguar was the first usable version)
You have to wonder how far ahead OS X will be by then. Jeez.
“Ok the site has been brought down for “security reasons” but you can still find it in the Google Cache..”
That is really funny. We are supposed to believe a site that points out security flaws in other peoples software that can’t keep thier own site protected.
I believe MS is going to have to do something to satisfy thier Software Assurance licensee’s that purchased over a yers ago. They aren’t going to get anything for thier money and they are going to asked to renew before Longhorn gets here, even using an optimistic time frame. I wouldn’t be buying any Software Assurance for their server products at the moment either.
I think you’re wrong. I have actually seen artists that use ALL of the features of Photoshop (I was surprised too).
I have NEVER seen someone use even half of the features in Word. Probably because “professionals” whose use Word are simply writing, and that doesnt need too much help.
actualy, MS “asked” them to take it down for THIER security reasons. not the website’s
”
“Ok the site has been brought down for “security reasons” but you can still find it in the Google Cache..”
That is really funny. We are supposed to believe a site that points out security flaws in other peoples software that can’t keep thier own site protected.”””
Microsoft is known to force sites to remove their security alerts about microsoft products, unless the site is either out of country, or funded by microsoft. They are currently using the terrorism defence in courts to pull those sites.
I think you’re wrong. I have actually seen artists that use ALL of the features of Photoshop (I was surprised too).
Judging by your surprise, it’s rare. Most people only use a certain subset of features for most applications they use, unless those applications are extremely simple (both in design and use).
I have NEVER seen someone use even half of the features in Word. Probably because “professionals” whose use Word are simply writing, and that doesnt need too much help.
I have never seen anyone use half the features of Word, either, but I have seen 12 different users use maybe 10 features in common, and at least 5 other features that none of the others used. That’s without even touching on the things I’ve seen developers do with office (or Word or Excel specifically).
The key is that every user has certain features they believe that every app of type X should have, otherwise they will not use it. The classic example is a reviewer writing about new Word replacement Z which is so great that he wrote his own review in it, and extolled all of it’s virtues, and then got to the end and figured out that there’s no word count feature. Now, I don’t care that there’s no word count in product Z, but most people writing reviews and such for magazines are going to need it. I don’t need to write documents that the other people that use my computer can read but not print, but my boss needs a way to give people in the office access to time-sensitive documents without letting them print the documents. and so on, and so forth.
I, being the kind of person I am (and what other kind of person would I be?), tend to open Word on every new computer I get for my own use (when Word is installed on it) and create a new toolbar with only the stuff I use on it, and then turn off all the other toolbars. Simple as that, the extra features stay in the menus if I need some random feature that I never use.
The point being, each user might only use 15-30 features in Word, but which 15-30 is rarely the same for a large group of users. A small subset of them may be the same for most users, but if you don’t have a word count and someone else does, some of them will never use your application. Word was built to try to fit everyone’s needs. Sometimes this causes conflicts with the people that feel they should be specifically catered to and can see through the idea of adding everyone’s features to an application rather than just that individual’s features, but to the professional developer going for market share, it’s usually worthwhile to add the extra features rather than cater to the minimalist.
Business success is all about time to market. I’m guessing that Longhorn is looking to be a disaster.
Sure, it’s gonna be preinstalled on 95% of the computers worldwide. How can it be a disaster then?
Microsoft knows that IE is out of date, that is is not standard compliant, and that there are better web browsers out there and for free. Yet it doesn’t matter because IE doesn’t stand alone, it is part of the entire product, and it is to Microsofts advantage that IE lags behind.
They know everything, but the real question that you have to ask yourself is how does this break down into jobs and support for the economy. What is Microsofts strategy…because they are using IT to their advantage, and it is subtle, but you have to be aware of what side of the fence to stand on, and at this time it is not clear, it depends on where you live, LOL. Think about it, but you will probably never understand.
“Microsoft is known to force sites to remove their security alerts about microsoft products, unless the site is either out of country, or funded by microsoft. They are currently using the terrorism defence in courts to pull those sites”
Could you please offer proof of the above statement. Give us some case numbers.
” Think about it, but you will probably never understand.”
Well illuminate us oh enlightened one. Unitl then all your mystero speak is just gibberish.
What I’m saying is that there is a strategy behind the Microsoft platform and it’s not just about technology, but is affects the nation, so there is a political side.
Microsoft wants to protect itself against threats like Linux, however it also has the opportunity to protect American research and development. This is important, and the type of developers that they are creating with .Net and Java are good for the nation, because this type of developer has no control. so the goal is to work with educational institutions and move this developer out of the country to Europe and developing nations. In North America we want generalist, developers who work with research and development, this is the knowledge worker of globalization. We want to move out all of the specialists, work with our businesses that have exported labour to other countries and deploy our technology to those countries but at the same time we will not give up control over the research and devleopment.
Sure, it’s gonna be preinstalled on 95% of the computers worldwide.
Er…you do know that 1/3rd of Windows PC still run Win98, right? I can’t see how Longhorn could ever run on 95% of computers worldwide – assuming you mean desktop computers – since a great proportion of users won’t have machines that will be able to run it in the first place.
If you really meant “95% of all computers”, you should know that, if you were to count servers as well as Desktop, MS doesn’t have 90% of the market – it’s probably closer to 75%.
“Microsoft wants to protect itself against threats like Linux, however it also has the opportunity to protect American research and development.”
yeah sure, that must be why they’re starting to export jobs to india. man, ain’t that partiotism for ya!
The more security holes they find in IE and Windows, the better the case Microsoft can make for Longhorn. They can just say, “Oh well, when you upgrade to Longhorn, you won’t have to worry about it anymore because it’ll have trustworthy computing. With our new DRM, nothing can get through. And since we’re talking about Longhorn, let me tell you about these other new features…”
They are exporting jobs to India because they want to move the specialists out of North America. This will bring more opportunities to engineers in North America. If you can’t understand this than, LOL.
“”They are exporting jobs to India because they want to move the specialists out of North America. This will bring more opportunities to engineers in North America. If you can’t understand this than, LOL. “”
So they’re moving jobs away from the American sector whilst removing the incentive for specialisation, which is what drives innovation (General practioners don’t create new brain surgery techniques), and they’re somehow creating new, as well as improved, engineering opportunities?
Is this a kind of zen?
CPUGuy (IP: 24.92.223.—) – Posted on 2003-10-28 18:36:28
Office isn’t for the home user anyway. Hints the name of the suite… Office.
I think the one thing you have forgotten is the fact that there are a large number of organisations who have a select license which allows employees to run Windows and Office on their home computer as long as they’re an employee of the respective company.
The New Zealand government has a similar programme in place as employees in the New Zealand Army are able to purchase Dell PCs via the RNZA (and get the volume discount) and use the same Microsoft software that is used at work at home.
The one thing I would ask is if you’re in a large organisation and you want Office, ask your IT manager whether or not your organisation has this agreement in place.
Eugenia (IP: —.osnews.com) – Posted on 2003-10-28 18:25:39
All companies want to make money, this is their responsibility to their shareholders, so I don’t see the problem. Regarding the “too many features”, well, Photoshop is the same. None of the artists uses ALL photoshop features. It is normal for full-featured products: not everyone needs everything, but there are people who do need some of things you don’t. So again, I don’t see the problem, I just see a lot of whining.
True, however, Adobe’s main customer is a lot more technically “clued up” than the Joe and Jane user who may potentially upgrade to the next version of Windows.
People who purchase Photoshop are quite happy to pay for an upgrade for transition speed increases, however, the fact remains the end user isn’t going to be wowed by stability improvements, speed increases or some other “operating centric” feature, they want features, flashy icons and cool animations hence the reason why Microsoft designed Luna. Luna could have been skipped and the improvements in Windows XP alone over the 9x was worth the upgrade, however, they need the “buzz” factor to get end users interested, hence the flashy interfaces.
Rocko Lopez (IP: —.user.msu.edu) – Posted on 2003-10-28 18:53:09
MS is patching security holes??? What about Internet Explorer? The most obsolete application that is still extremely popular.
I heard that there are 31 known security vulnerabilities in IE alone, and MS is doing nothing to fix this because they “won the browser wars.”
Support is there if they think they will lose customers otherwise.
That page you have pointed out has been taken down as Microsoft has claimed that all those holes have now been fixed. The website now claims that they’re now “retesting” to ensure that the problems have been fixed. It is rather funny now that the website has been down for over a month and it is still claiming that they’re “testing”.
Those issues have been corrected. Get over it and get used to it. Microsoft isn’t perfect, good lord, there isn’t a perfect company out there, however, I do think it is rather dishonest to scream that Microsoft sucks at security whilst deliberately ignoring the numerous patches they release on their windowsupdate site.
Blaster was spread because people deliberately ignored the security update(s) that were made available. Stop blaming Microsoft and start taking responsibility for your action, are these people expecting a technician to come around to their house to patch the computer for them?
Descartes (IP: —.dip.t-dialin.net) – Posted on 2003-10-28 19:18:35
Ok the site has been brought down for “security reasons” but you can still find it in the Google Cache
Went to the site and look at what it states, in a nut shell, “well, Microsoft has now fixed those vulnerabilities and we can’t admit that they’re on the right track so instead we’ll post some rants, raves and insuations to spread a little FUD and raise out website a little more on the search engine stats”.
“Blaster was spread because people deliberately ignored the security update(s) that were made available. Stop blaming Microsoft and start taking responsibility for your action, are these people expecting a technician to come around to their house to patch the computer for them?”
On the contrary, I think most people who are not techies would assume that company like Microsoft with it’s vast resources and manpower could make an operating system that couldn’t be breached by an 18 year old who was still dumb enough to lead the Feds back to his own website. They might well think that a worm couldn’t travel like Blaster since most of them go through email. Of course, they don’t spend all day in OSnew.com forums. They would probably assume that all of Bill’s people putting their heads together could make a secure enough operating system so that they, the non-techies, can do their jobs and get on with their lives. Particularly since when it came to buying a computer they don’t get much of a choice in operating systems. Either spend the extra on a Mac, not really knowing why, or get one that’s compatible with their friends and associates. They would assume that software engineers do something besides making these really cute XP icons. In fact, they probably don’t expect to have to be completely paranoid when they log on to the Net.
I’m not a big fan of Microsoft. At work (a danish ISP) we mainly use FreeBSD for all our systems, but I prefer Windows XP on the desktop. For the sake of compatibility. I don’t like the default Fisher Price-like theme, but I just turn it off. Just like the guy in here who said, that if you don’t like the features of Word, you just turn it off! QED.
I think it’s quite positive that Microsoft will be working the next two or three years on a larger revision of their popular operating system. They’re adding some interesting features to system – a new UI (the XP theme really is an Aqua-like revision of the traditional UI since Windows 99). WinFS and Aero look very nice.
The only problem is that Microsoft aren’t going to rewrite their Windows system. The NT-architecture is one big mess, and I don’t think Microsoft will save us from the DLL-hell. They might cut down the number of (un)usable APIs, but as long as they still use their traditional, VMS-like NT-system with one big directory (WINDOWS) containing all OS files, Microsoft wont get any longer. Unfortunately.
CooCooCaChoo:
Microsoft isn’t perfect, good lord, there isn’t a perfect company out there, however, I do think it is rather dishonest to scream that Microsoft sucks at security whilst deliberately ignoring the numerous patches they release on their windowsupdate site.
People ignore security patches BECAUSE “Microsoft sucks at security”. MicroSoft themselves were hit with Slammer because their latest patches had unfixed the vulnerability in question, which they had fixed in a previous patch! It’s irresonsible to expect sys admins to apply all the latest patches in a production environment before they’ve been properly tested ie. used by others for a few weeks.