“SuSE Linux 9, the latest release from Nuremberg, Germany-based SuSE Linux, was released at the end of last month. I put SuSE Linux Professional through its paces, and found it to be the most user-friendly Linux distribution on the market. It’s not a “must” update for users of previous versions, but it does have some nice perks.” Read the review at NewsForge.
SuSE Linux 9 Review at NewsForge
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
and not by a Linux head, I want it by a windows user who has maybe tried linux, but has not used it for a while. that would give us a good look into how well they each fair against each other since they will be looked upon by a “windows refugee” and not a linux geek who likes TONS of choice.
Maybe one day in the distant future Linux may well have a desktop future but it is way off by millions!
Windows is the way to go here and Linux heads are deluding themselves if they think their OS is going to get there any time soon. I used to use Linux up until this year and I went to Windows mainly becaus eit is now very good, easier to use than Linux and it has a good future.
you left just as Linux was getting good.
desktop use for home folks will be years off, but for corporate use…no contest, Linux is perfectly suited for the job right now.
I think it is easy to use for a noobie, but I’m not one. I do love using SuSE Linux but I also use Gentoo/Debian/Slackware, the list goes on and I prefer SuSE to all of them. I’m not a noob & not a Guru, but I just like to clearify that SuSE is for the Linux geek who likes TONS of choice.
All the power of Linux rolled into any easy install & a lot of choice. I think it would be good for noobies too.
I have to admit, I was enjoying slack & gentoo, but so far my impression of 9.0 is FAST, all of my games are running with out a *burp* in SuSE. Gentoo & Slack ran good, but they did *hicup* every now and again and the visual just didn’t seem to be as nice.
It also makes a great server. A lot of choice all there for you. You can easy Yast2 to make it eaiser or cli, either way, you cant loose with it.
If you want third party apps, plenty through “apt4rpm”, I just wouldn’t add all the repository’s, same story with rh/fedora, to many repo’s and you start hosing your box with conflicting packages.
I’ve used SuSE off/on since 6.3 and every version up to this point and I think that this is there best release yet.
Can’t wait to see what more involvement IBM & Novel will have with SuSE.
I’ve been using Linux for 5 years now, and mine is as Desktop as you can get. This argument is stupid. I know a lot of people that run Linux as a Desktop OS, and it suites them just fine. Do some people have to tinker with it and make different hardware work, of course.
Let’s not forget the windows users, I have two friends WINDOWS box’s at my house right now that I’m fixing cause they had problems with new software and hardware upgrades. Oh yeah windows is so great, why do I always fix windows box’s and my Linux box’s (5 of them & 3 Solaris) have NO problems??
People seem to foget that the average joe blow has no idea what to do with a winbox either so the my desktop is better than yours and yours aint good enought to use is just LOADED POOOOOOOOOOO!
😉
Hear, hear, linux is not ready for the desktop. I am so sick and tire of that line. Whose desktop?
The people in Thailand seem to think it is ready:
http://linuxinsider.com/perl/story/32110.html
So do the people of Spain:
http://www.linex.org
So do the people of Brazil. And on and on…
“I’ve been using Linux for 5 years now, and mine is as Desktop as you can get. This argument is stupid.”
I agree the arguement is stupid. I’ve been runing Windows for 10 years now and its as dekstop as you can get.
“Let’s not forget the windows users, I have two friends WINDOWS box’s at my house right now that I’m fixing cause they had problems with new software and hardware upgrades. Oh yeah windows is so great, why do I always fix windows box’s and my Linux box’s (5 of them & 3 Solaris) have NO problems??”
For the same reason my Windows box has NO problems. Because we both know how to use them properly when installing/upgrading.
“People seem to foget that the average joe blow has no idea what to do with a winbox either so the my desktop is better than yours and yours aint good enought to use is just LOADED POOOOOOOOOOO!”
But you just said you have no problems with a Linux desktop and always repairing Windows desktops. Isn’t this kind of contradicting what you are saying?
I use Linux in my home and I will never touch Microsoft even with a 10 foot pole. NEVER, I would rather die!
even with Suse 9
Rather than saying it’s not ready, why don’t you doubters just say it’s too hard for you, which is what you really mean.
“I use Linux in my home and I will never touch Microsoft even with a 10 foot pole. NEVER, I would rather die!”
Now, that’s a funny statement. How old are you anyway?
Linux is by any means “ready for the desktop” if used for basic stuff, like email, web browsing, word processing etc, making it good for corporate desktop. For home desktop, the lack of commecial applications is the killer factor.
I was not making a point about SUSE being for noobs, I was making a point that a head to head against Xandros done by a Linux person would result in SUSE coming out on top because the Linux person has different things he/she values in a linux distribution than does an average desktop user.
Maybe one day in the distant future Linux may well have a desktop future but it is way off by millions! Windows is the way to go here and Linux heads are deluding themselves if they think their OS is going to get there any time soon. I used to use Linux up until this year and I went to Windows mainly becaus eit is now very good, easier to use than Linux and it has a good future.
Right. Also, we are miles away from colonizing Mars. Let’s go ahead and trash the space program.
Seriously, though, this is definately a case where someone from the Windows side immediately assumes that Linux exists to topple Windows. It may (and has in some areas already) succeed at that, but where is it a stated goal?
There is no manifest destiny for Linux to reach Microsoft’s marketshare. Linux is making extraordinary progress on many fronts.
With proprietary software, usually products aren’t released until they are “ready.” With open source, you see software evolve. Linux is a process. And the process is working.
Does the reality heurt you ?
I’m not bashing Linux, far from that I’m a supporter of linux but some times it’s good to face the reality.
And if you prefer “Linux is hard for me”. There is big equation about all that :
AVERAGE PEOPLE HAS NO TIME (FOR ONE REASON OR OTHER) TO LEARN ALL THE ISSUES ABOUT LINUX.
I don’t know all the “issues about Linux,” but I have been using for years and love it. YMMV.
Seriously, though, there is only way to test to see if a product is usable for you. Give it a shot. If it doesn’t work out for you, you are welcome to extrapolate that others with similar or less knowledge will encounter similar difficulties, but tell that to the people that want to see you use Linux.
I, for one, don’t care what you use. Reviews are for enthusiasts to get a glimpse of the progress of large Open Source projects. OSS isn’t a product, it’s a process. Reviews are mileage markers for people who care about what’s being reviewed, not discussions of whether or not “Linux is ready for prime time.”
Re: Everyone
I would love to see a head to head between SUSE and Xandros and not by a Linux head, I want it by a windows user who has maybe tried linux, but has not used it for a while.
I am a Windows user and have tried both. Neither of them are all that great, but Xandros (v1) wins hands down.
Oh yeah windows is so great, why do I always fix windows box’s and my Linux box’s (5 of them & 3 Solaris) have NO problems??
Well, that’s the thing that makes Windows so accessible. If Joe Sixpack breaks his Windows box, he probably knows a friend or family member who can fix it. The same cannot normally be said for Linux, though that may change over time.
I use Linux in my home and I will never touch Microsoft even with a 10 foot pole. NEVER, I would rather die!
Well, why not go ahead and die then? And take your f**king Linux box with you.
Seriously, though, this is definately a case where someone from the Windows side immediately assumes that Linux exists to topple Windows. It may (and has in some areas already) succeed at that, but where is it a stated goal?
Basically it’s stated by an assload of rabid Linux zealots who pollute boards like this one.
With proprietary software, usually products aren’t released until they are “ready.” With open source, you see software evolve
Which means there about 8 million different projects either in alpha/beta on SourceForge. This isn’t a bad thing, except when the zealots mentioned above try to pawn this crap off as real alternatives for good commercial software.
Personally, I think Linux is a great OS. But a great OS does not a usable desktop make.
I run Linux on four desktops, with a fifth in reserve. SUSE was the first distro that I succeeded installing. I do the following:
Web Browsing (with Konqueror and Firebird)
E-mail (Thunderbird)
Light Desktop Publishing (via Textmaker)
Film Scanning (with Vuescan)
Image Editing (with GIMP and Cinepaint)
Photo Printing (Turboprint)
Web design (Bluefish and OpenOffice for editing, gFTP for uploading)
Finances (with GNUCash)
Time Management (KOrganizer)
Contact Lists (KAddressbook)
Team Scores (OpenOffice Calc)
My kids do homework, play games (lots of games), do e-mail and Web browsing. They use Windows for Encarta, and we also subscribe to Britannica online. I use windows for certain Bible related software that is not available anywhere else (the Anchor Bible Dictionary, Biblical Archaeological Review back issues, etc). Win4Lin helps reduce dual booting.
In short, Windows excels when it comes to specialty software, but Linux will do a lot. certainly more than the “basic stuff, like email, web browsing, word processing etc” that one person claimed.
Do you suppose that maybe one of the reasons why Linux is having difficulty getting on the destop might have to do with the fact that the desktop is monopolized by Microsoft. Has that ever crossed the minds of anyone.
For all those people who do not have time to learn Linux, Linux doesn’t have time to be used by them.
If you don’t know how to:
1) compile the linux kernel
2) use the shell comfortably (command line interface)
3) manually install a package with or without a package manager
4) report bugs
By all means, go back to Windows and Mac. Linux is for the educated computer literate individual who values openness, freedom, community and improvement above all else.
Get some education and use Linux. The people who use it don’t have two brains. And if you can’t be bothered learning a new digital culture, then buy a Mac or use Windows. Nobody is shoving Linux down throats.
“AVERAGE PEOPLE HAS NO TIME (FOR ONE REASON OR OTHER) TO LEARN ALL THE ISSUES ABOUT LINUX.”
There’s no need to “shout”. The average user has no time to even learn how to use Windows, for that matter. Most that I know need their email set and software installed for them. If learning Windows is hard for them, then learning any OS will be hard for them, right? Sorry if I offended your ego, but as ThanatosNL mentions, running Linux obviously is possible. Just have to make the effort…
“Basically it’s stated by an assload of rabid Linux zealots who pollute boards like this one.”
LOL
Ah, the Linux zealot. It’s no doubt a direct response to having Windows shoved in our faces everywhere a person can go. ‘Buy a new computer? Not going to spring for a Mac? Congratulations, you get Windows, like it or not.’ Probably when this situation changes there’ll be less zealots. When you can walk into a store and actually pick from several different OSes which one you want on your pc, then maybe people won’t feel like they have to push it so hard…
“If you don’t know how to:
1) compile the linux kernel”
I have done so to install Win4Lin, but users of the main RPM based distributions (Red Hat, SUSE and Mandrake) wouldn’t have to.
“2) use the shell comfortably (command line interface)”
I have used the shell, but I confess I cheat. Repetitive tasks get turned into scripts, and Midnight Commander takes away lots of CLI work.
Love that program!
“3) manually install a package with or without a package manager”
I have experimented with this with commercial software (unTAR to
/usr/local, and hope the thing runs), but the Debian repository is an amazing thing. I like Debian, because I can avoid stuff like manual installs.
“4) report bugs”
I have done that under Windows, too.
“By all means, go back to Windows and Mac.”
Two things: I will use Windows or the Mac, if I find them useful, specifically if they have software I need.
Second, You really don’t need to do any of the things you mentioned to run Linux and be productive.
I’ve experiamented with Linux in various configurations, I like it for the “Difference” between Windows and linux, and yes SUSE 9.0 is my new toy, with a very nice and clean dual boot with XP its my toy for when I just want to surf the web and chat.
is it ready for the desktop? I don’t think so
Is it ready for the desktop Corporate invironment… I think it is, My Confuration on my work box hasnt changed since I started here, only the upgrades of the software,
I’ll be adding a second machine when Xandros 2.0 comes out, thats the ideal Corporate Nix.
I noticed that there aren’t a lot of utilities in 9.0 that were in previous versions. Utilities that some of my scripts require. That bummed me out. I had to install the binaries separately myself. Things like cdda2wav, mplayer, madplay, mpg123, id3ed… I’m sure there are others. About the best new features are the built-in dvd burning utilities. That’s a nice touch. But seriously, I’m thinking of just going back to 8.2 and get the latest updates.
If my favorite video games ran on linux, i’d have absolutely no use for my win200 box. Anyone know if diablo II can run under wine?? If so, a cool link to show how to set it up??
Thanks, Steve Ballmer is a flaming idiot who smokes meth.
Linux & Windowz are both Great desktop OSes… NOW !!!
But not so a few years ago.
They each have their merits and minuses.
Personally I use Linux most of the time, exept when gaming. Windowz is a Great game machine (Due to the FACT that the game companies are not into the Linux market)
Windowz 2000 & XP are both fantastic OSes for the masses who do not care about security and tweaking.
Actually to their credit, both 2000 and XP can be locked down fairly well, but you have to tweak them to accomplish this feat. Something the average Joe or Jill PC user does not do.
Over the last year, I have had better success installing Linux (mostly SuSE) that the Windowz boxes and laptops that I have worked on and built.
And once the new user, (Joe who has not owned a PC before) sat down with the Linux PC and I showed them the basics, they have not had any issues out of the ordinary that the Windowz users have had.
So all in all, Linux & Windowz are both Great desktop OSes… NOW !!!
“Linux is for the educated computer literate individual who values openness, freedom, community and improvement above all else. ”
And windows users are uneducated? computer illiterate?
They don’t value openness? or community? or improvement?
Stop writing like some pimply-faced teenager anarchist idiot.
You sound no more intelligent than someone who is arguing that claw-hammers are better than ballpeen, and thus users of claw-hammers are more educated, intelligent, and wiser.
The fact of the matter is that people use windows because:
1. it has software not available on other systems.
2. It was the first OS they learned and they don’t want to waste resources and time learning another. ( Not everyone is into computers, and those who are are not necesarily better because of it )
3. Software just installs. No dependencies. Hardly any conflicts with modules compiled with out of date gcc versions, or kernels.
4. No continual upgrading. This may seem like a deficiency to someone who has upgraded their linux OS 3 times in the past year, but not doing that may be a relief to some people. Amazingly enough, some people might want to use their computers to be productive rather than to recompile a kernel, or learning how to do so.
So windows is not perfect. Nothing is, certainly not linux.
Sometimes you use a claw-hammer because that is what is handy right now.
If you think linux is ready for the desktop I ask you to do this. Give your not techie person a SuSe CD and see what comes out of it. If by some chance they’re technical enough to install the OS you will get questions like this during usage.
question:
Can you help me get (enter favorite game here) working?
Answer:
No because that game sux0rz use quake instead!
question:
Why doesn’t my printer/scanner/videocard work? I just bought it?
answer:
It wont work for a few months till they port the drivers, take it back and buy (enter supported here) then you just need to recompile the kernel with so & so flags and export HDHE=57sh83h2 into your /etc/bashrc and thats it! easy!(this Isn’t common but the thing is, it can happen and has, okay)
It’s been said 470,372 times but I guess you need to listen this time. LINUX IS NOT EASY ENOUGH FOR EVERYONE! PPL like to say if all you do is websurf and check e-mail its fine. Yeah but who does that? most ppl download things when websurfing what happens when they double click on foo-redhat9.rpm on a SuSe box and scream it doesnt work! or have to phone you ever day asking how to unzip that tarball thingy again.
Please people be honest with yourselvs we will not win any hearts with lies. Thats part of the reason they are upset with M$ in the first place remember?
I have just switched from my beloved Slackware to Suse 9.0 . The reason I switched was the amount of time and energy involved with patching and compiling and fiddling with this and tweaking that and on and on. Don’t get me wrong, I loved doing that stuff. I just got to the point that I was growing tired of always playing around with Linux and decided to just install a distro and use it.
So I installed Suse 9.0 . I picked it because there was a copy on Fry’s shelf and Win4Lin supported it. I use Win4Lin just so that I can use Autocad and that’s it. Suse installed perfectly, the Win4Lin installer replaced the stock Kernel with a Win4Lin enabled kernel loaded windows and reconfigured my grub bootloader. Sweet.
I now have more free time. I like Suse.
Basically it’s stated by an assload of rabid Linux zealots who pollute boards like this one.
It’s not Linux zealots that go to every distribution review and pipe in, “Linux isn’t ready yet.” It’s you guys.
Which means there about 8 million different projects either in alpha/beta on SourceForge. This isn’t a bad thing, except when the zealots mentioned above try to pawn this crap off as real alternatives for good commercial software.
They don’t.
Personally, I think Linux is a great OS. But a great OS does not a usable desktop make.
“Usable” means someone can use it. My Linux desktop is usable to me. I don’t care if it is usable to you. I really, REALLY don’t. Nothing personal, it’s just silly to care if others like my setup.
Basically it’s stated by an assload of rabid Linux zealots who pollute boards like this one.
Another thing; why do you even look at these comments if you don’t care about SuSE? I see these boards being polluted by anti-Linux zealots and their Not Ready Yet (TM) mantra. People are contending that Linux is ready because they are countering the arguments of those who say it isn’t.
If no one brought up the issue, boards wouldn’t get polluted.
3. Software just installs. No dependencies. Hardly any conflicts with modules compiled with out of date gcc versions, or kernels.
I have always wondered about statements along these these lines about Windows.
I have nothing in particular against Windows, in fact I use it quite frequently because of a third party app I need to make my living and most of the time Windows behaves nicely.
Yet, in my experience installing new software can be a nightmare in Windows. Sometimes other applications and even the OS itself starts behaving oddly and unstable without giving you a clue about what is going on. And the only solution I have come up with so far is start reinstalling all my applications and even the OS itself.
Compared to this software installation in Linux is a breeze. Then again I keep it simple and stick to packages built for my distribution which always install without a hitch – and most importantly, they don’t mess up other parts of my system.
Olav
P.S. I have almost no experience with XP, all problems might very well be solved there.
Distro: Slackware 9.1
Web browsing: mozilla/konquror
Email: Evolution
Word Processor/Presentation/Spreadsheets/ETC: OpenOffice
Film Editing: FilmGimp
Photo Editing: Photoshop 7(via wine)
Games: UT2k3, Quake3, Enemy Territory, America’s army, Neverwinter Nights, Half-Life, Starcraft, Warcraft 3, Simcity 3000 Unlimited.Max payne, stepmania, and a couple more FPSs
Music:XMMS(good for streaming too)
Video: gxine with 50MB worth of codecs!(it can play WMP,Realone,quicktime formats and all the other non-player specic formats like divx, ogm, avi,mpg, xvid,etc)
CD Burning: K3B(but on my older comps I use the CLI so I can burn at higher rates w/o risking over-burn)
Ive been MS free for 3months and im lovin it!
nobody rational is arguing linux can’t be a desktop for some ppl. Stop saying “I do it!” You are not the point. You are a minority. If it works for you great, works for me too. If the admins checked my osnews logs I’m not sure how far back they’d have to go to see me using IE. I almost never use it. But I’m not the standard you have to hit to be validly labled as a desktop OS. I’m fairly tech savy.
Olav, I’ve installed on MSDOS, win95, win98, win2000, winXP, RedHat,Suse,slackwaree, Mandrake. The problems I’ve had installing software on the Linux systems approach the difficulties I had with MSDOS. Yes, apt and synaptic can make things much easier, if the software you want is in the repositories. Yes, the chance of getting virii and spyware is much higher on Windows. ( On linux I’ve had ZERO viruses, and on windows I make it a habit to clean my system weekly ).
But I’ve rarely had problems installing on win95/98, and I’ve never had problems on win2000 and XP.
The problems I’ve had on all windows versions were usually caused by viruses, spyware, bad registry settings ( yes, that is an OS or setup fault ) or system resources using up all the resource memory ( also an OS fault ).
Still, all those were easy to handle compared to software installation on Linux. Why does a simple gui frontend require an audio lib which has to be downloaded from some other distributions repository? Another frontend to the same app doesn’t need the audio lib, but it needs another cvs lib which is not compatable with the one already on my system, as well as three OTHER libs from other distro repositories.
Then maybe I have to compile something, but the source is not compatible with the particular lib on my system, or maybe its the compiler. It’s a neverending chain.
Windows puts you at the mercy of Microsoft.
Linux puts you at the mercy of hundreds and thousands of programmers, many of whom you could not tolerate in your personal company, each of whom has a better idea, and none of whom are at all dependent on your money.
Some years ago I didn’t even know the word “Linux” or “Unix” existed. Back in one of those years, I bought a complete Compaq computer (with monitor, printer & etc) from MicroCenter. It cost me close to $2000. The computer shipped with Windows 98. The first time I powered it, I got a blue “Illegal Operation” warning; it shocked me and made feel guilty (though I knew I have done nothing wrong).
–>>Fast forward to present day..
Since then, I have used Windows 98se, ME, 2000 Pro, XP Home & XP Pro. They all had one thing in common; crashes and freezes, though 2000 and XP have improved a little bit. This has forced me to look for an alternative. Somewhere in the pages of a magazine (don’t recall name), I read an advertisement about a free SuSE live cd; I filled an online order and got a copy in less than 2 weeks. That live cd has changed my computer life forever, and for better.
Now, let me put into few words; there’s nothing Linux can’t accomplish that Windows can. All those assertions that Linux isn’t yet ready for desktop has no base and foundation. Linux is ready as Windows is; perhaps even more. You want an automated OS a la Windows? SuSE, Xandros and others are automated. You’re a gamer, Linux is no gaming OS? Games have nothing to do with OSs; it has to do with providers. There are many decent games for Linux; the number is bound to grow as Linux gets mainstream. Linux hardware support is accelerating and growing; SuSE 9.0 currently supports 50% of winmodems. In short, Linux is developing at an astounding pace; at the current pace, Linux will zoom past Windows in every area. The only area where Windows outshines Linux is eyecandyness; but it’s minimal, Linux will catch it shortly (within 2 years).
So, does this mean I’ll never touch a Windows OS? No, I will consider it when it retails for under $40 (full edition; no upgrades) with a generous license to install it upto 5 computers/laptops. That means “consider”; I’ll buy it only if it outperforms Linux, plus if it’s competitive or cheaper to Linux.
Games have nothing to do with OSs; it has to do with providers.
It is my humble opinion that game support (and much more importantly, app support) has EVERYTHING to do with the OS. In fact, I would go so far as to say that an OS is DEFINED by the apps/games it was. Think of it in terms of consoles – when you think about something like the Playstation, you don’t think about what an impressive piece of hardware it was – you tend to think more about the games it ran. To me, an OS is the same way. As far as OSS goes, there are some great desktop apps, but they are too few and far between. Most of the stuff is certainly usable and meets the needs of some people, it usually doesn’t measure up. And when it does, normally the developers make a Windows version too (eg – Firebird), so it doesn’t matter anyway. Windows is a proprietary operating system and that tends to piss a lot of people off. But, more and more, Linux distros are becoming more proprietary as well. Sure, there’ll always be the free ones like Debian, but offerings like Xandros are MUCH more attractive for those of us on the outside, and will probably always be two steps ahead of the free ones.
“1. it has software not available on other systems.”
There are various ways to get such software working using GNU/Linux and a {Free|proprietary} program. Examples include: Compiling it yourself or using a port for example the case with Maya. Using a Windows-clone API, like WINE. Using a virtual machine like: Bochs, Plex86, Xen, Win4lin, VMware. They’re not all perfect options, that’s hereby granted, however with all these options available one can use various ways to
Oh now i hear someone whining here again. It’s about ”users don’t want that complex stuff”. Fine, then users go use only ie. VMware or only Win4lin. Whatever you wish, but the other solutions can give one a performance advantage and the advantage that you don’t need to boot the Windows OS or need a license for it (native speaks for itself) which also means choice, WHICH as a whole is my point.
“2. It was the first OS they learned and they don’t want to waste resources and time learning another. ( Not everyone is into computers, and those who are are not necesarily better because of it )”
That’s just a matter of how you look at it. First, i think it keeps people stupid. Second, i think both MacOS, OS/2 and AmigaOS were easy as hell. However, Commodore isn’t known for their marketing tactics, Mac was expensive and IBM got nailed by Microsoft tactics. Microsoft is good with such tactics, i’d agree with that however, that’s not what you claim.
“3. Software just installs. No dependencies.”
Oh please! Ever heard of DLL hell? Backward incompaitibility. Software doesn’t just always install, neither it doesn’t have dependencies. I believe this dependancy hell is very pretty done in Debian GNU/Linux btw. Depends per distro.
“4. No continual upgrading. This may seem like a deficiency to someone who has upgraded their linux OS 3 times in the past year, but not doing that may be a relief to some people. Amazingly enough, some people might want to use their computers to be productive rather than to recompile a kernel, or learning how to do so.”
You’re generalizing. First of all, users aren’t forced to do so. Second, not every GNU/Linux distribution releases 3 times a year. Some distro’s actually have a release like once in 2 years. Don’t like that? Fine, you’re free to use an older one. Diversity and choice is a good thing; they’renot all the same.
“So windows is not perfect. Nothing is, certainly not linux.”
I suggest you use that hammer of yours to learn yourself the difference between an OS and a kernel, and stop generalizing. Thanks in advance,
Anybody know if they fixed PyQT? In SuSE 8.2 they compiled it wrong or something and you couldn’t run the simplest of PyQT apps because of it. The solutions were to grab RPMs from some non-SuSE repository or compile from the PyQT source tarball (I chose the latter). AFAIK SuSE was aware (at least the mailing list was).
Did they fix this in 9.0? Did they ever fix it in 8.2?
Or maybe I installed the SuSE 8.2 RPMS from PyKDE’s sourceforge page. It’s been a while since I toyed with it.
The question still stands. Did SuSE fix this officially? I found it kind of lame for such a useful API to be broken out of the box in 8.2.
ThanatosNL you have hit the nail right on the head Linux is not out to be the number one OS for everyone it is trying to be the best OS it can be. For me Linux has been ready for the desktop since 95 had it in my house ever since. Would I recomend it for everyone no but I don’t recomend Windows or MacOS to everyone either. Different OS’s have different strenghts and weakness’ and I am personally glad for that.
Everyone here is generalizing to an extent.
Yes, I was because I don’t have the time, or space to be exceedingly specific ( or maybe I just can’t be bothered ).
Dll hell? I’ve never come across it.
But I come across dependency hell almast everytime I install a new rpm.
No, no one is required to upgrade anything, unless you want to use a feature in the new anjuta.
I haven’t tried VMware yet. But that is not linux.
Why install windows on linux when I can just do it on windows without the extra license? At least that way my WinXP can access the hardware directly.
And for that matter I’m not certain that the apps I use will run on it.
“First, i think it keeps people stupid.”
People have a limited amount of time. Just because they choose not to learn your favorite OS, doesn’t mean that they will thus be “stupid”.
Why is it that even when some linux fans try to be gracious they still sound condescending and obnoxious.
“I suggest you use that hammer of yours to learn yourself the difference between an OS and a kernel, and stop generalizing. Thanks in advance,”
And what does that have to do with anything anyway?
“Everyone here is generalizing to an extent.”
Discussions are a common way to take it away.
First,
“And what does that have to do with anything anyway?”
A lot. Linux is only a kernel, where Windows is an OS. There is no ”Linux vs Windows” because they’re not the very same. There is at most: ”Linux distributions vs Windows” (and then version numbers come in, too). It’s way more complex then a simple ”Linux vs Windows”.
“Dll hell? I’ve never come across it.”
Strange. I have, and maaany other people have.
http://www.google.nl/search?q=DLL+Hell
“But I come across dependency hell almast everytime I install a new rpm.”
On which distro, but have you done to solve this, […]?
“No, no one is required to upgrade anything, unless you want to use a feature in the new anjuta.”
Backports exist then sometimes. For RPM’s, there is rpmfind.net for FreeBSD there is freshports.org and for Debian GNU/Linux there is apt-get.org
“I haven’t tried VMware yet. But that is not linux.”
Yeah, and GCC isn’t Linux either. Neither is KDE. Neither is GNOME. WinAmp isn’t Windows either. See my earlier comment about the kernel vs. OS point.
“Why install windows on linux when I can just do it on windows without the extra license? At least that way my WinXP can access the hardware directly.”
There’s no extra Windows license required if you already have one. With WINE there isn’t a license required at all.
Because one (not necessarily you) wants to run a GNU/Linux distribution and leave the Windows camp as much as possible.
“And for that matter I’m not certain that the apps I use will run on it.”
Like, which?
“People have a limited amount of time. Just because they choose not to learn your favorite OS, doesn’t mean that they will thus be “stupid”.”
(You do not know what my favorite OS is; i don’t even have one)
I don’t call them stupid. You misread what i said. One cannot be stupid because of one runs Windows because one can be smart in various other non-computer ways and by definition Windows user != stupid; this is not what i claimed. I see them being _held_ stupid (and kept lazy) by Microsoft. There are imo basics every user should learn, and frankly, i’d like to see it that way in the computerworld that even these basics are diverse. Basics, like patching your box. Patching doesn’t take much time, but it’s important. On my Debian GNU/Linux box it takes about 30 sec active time (2 commands and some reading). I also don’t say people need to learn GNU/Linux; what i’d rather would claim is people should learn and know several computer basics, like, for example: patching.
I won’t hide the fact that i’d like to see such people learning and using an open, transparant system instead of Microsoft – but that’s beyond arguments stated here.
“Why is it that even when some linux fans try to be gracious they still sound condescending and obnoxious.”
Straw-men.
“A lot. Linux is only a kernel, where Windows is an OS. There is no ”Linux vs Windows” because they’re not the very same. There is at most: ”Linux distributions vs Windows” (and then version numbers come in, too). It’s way more complex then a simple ”Linux vs Windows”.”
It makes no difference to the user. Why are you wasting time with this semantic bullshit. You know by now that when most people refer to “Linux” they are referring to the whole operating system, including the updating system, and the windowing GUI, and whatever else it takes to run an app.
Again, this is a case of a particular Linux fan making himself sound superior over what is at best a fine distinction to anyone else.
”
“But I come across dependency hell almast everytime I install a new rpm.”
On which distro, but have you done to solve this, […]?
”
Redhat 9, 8, Fedora, Suse 8. To solve this I’ve installed (or tried to; on Suse apt wouldn’t install because rpm was old, and rpm wouldn’t update because rpm was old) apt and synaptic. But if the ap you want isn’t in the repository, that still does you no good.
“Yeah, and GCC isn’t Linux either. Neither is KDE. Neither is GNOME. WinAmp isn’t Windows either. See my earlier comment about the kernel vs. OS point.”
See my earlier comment about fine distinctions.
When you have to compile a program to install it then GCC IS part of the OS. And if you need KDE to run an ap, then it IS part of the OS. When you start talking about how these are not the OS, ears start turning off because NO ONE GIVES A RAT’S ASS.
“”Why install windows on linux when I can just do it on windows without the extra license? At least that way my WinXP can access the hardware directly.”
There’s no extra Windows license required if you already have one. With WINE there isn’t a license required at all. ”
But there is a license required for VMware. And wine doesn’t work with autocad and mastercam and most of the games I have.
“(You do not know what my favorite OS is; i don’t even have one)”
This is true. I made an assumption. Mea Culpa, whip me with a cat-o-nine-tails.
”
There are imo basics every user should learn, and frankly, i’d like to see it that way in the computerworld that even these basics are diverse. Basics, like patching your box. Patching doesn’t take much time, but it’s important. On my Debian GNU/Linux box it takes about 30 sec active time (2 commands and some reading). I also don’t say people need to learn GNU/Linux; what i’d rather would claim is people should learn and know several computer basics, like, for example: patching.
”
So every secretary, CAD user, accountant should learn to compile the kernel? Does it not occur to you that some uses of the computer might be more profitable to users than administration tasks?
“I see them being _held_ stupid (and kept lazy) by Microsoft.”
Are they being kept stupid because they don’t have to compile the kernel? Maybe some might like that?
People do not want to know the interior details of a tools. They just want it to work.
Now, sometimes Windows doesn’t work that way, but it is THAT experience that Microsoft is trying to sell.
If linux tries to sell itself as an OS that requires the user to learn how to patch the kernel, and use bash, and learn how to solve dependency hell, it will never compete no matter how close it actually comes to being as easy to use as Windows. Even if it is better than windows ( and oddly enough I think it is ), your kind of advocacy for it will just push people away.
I run default SuSE9 Pro on 2.6.0-test9 and have ATI 9600 (not Pro). I just tried to install the lastest driver by rpm from ATI. It did not work. And I did not expect it would. The point is that Linux has a lot of catching up to do in this area. First of all the rpm also installed source but in paths (/lib/module,etc) that require root access. Scary. I don’t want to build as root but did it anyway and it did not work either. In fact it blew away the XF86Config file. Fortunately SAX had already left a backup. Secondly, the make file and the accompanying readme are long complex things that attempts to satisfy all distro’s. Until this gets better I wish the make file writers would also provide a simple editable alternative for those that know just enough to get by instead of all this if then and else cluttering to support all distro’s by the same script. Or even better, the distro’s should standardize the core. Maybe on the LSB standard that SuSE says they are compliant with. And let the end user apps be the area of deviation and competition.
Why don’t we compare commercial software installation on both platforms? It’s almost identical.
sh install.sh or ./install usually work. Maybe you can even double click the installer now adays. No more difficult than Windows.
When installing packages, from Yast for example, VERY SIMPLE…dependencies are taken care of for you. Upgrading and uninstalling, just as easy. It’s usually the ignorant that bitch about dependency problems
a while ago, i bought suse pro 8.2. i wasn’t very impressed with it, and sent it back for a refund. i loved that the whole distro was on one DVD. it looked great, kde always does, but it was VERY slow, even after i hdparm’d my harddrive. also, there was a ridiculous amount of redudant programs in the menus. YAST didn’t seem very intuitive. i figured it out, by my mom wouldn’t have a chance.
is suse 9 any faster in every day use? have the menus been cleaned up? has YAST been reengineered?
Winbloze, Windows, windoze…. man I prefer the tool that will do the job. I have 3 machines… Red Hat 8.2 box, OS9 box, and a Windows XP box. I also have the parts for 3 more. My wife hates all of them… can’t be bothered to figure them out (even if I try not to help
) I use all three for specific tasks. I like (and hate) how each of them handle different apps and situations. I choose function over name brands, OS version, or who has the most market share. Which ones easier.. who cares. I’m good enough with all of them. I, for one, will continue to use what is handy for the job. I would rather be productive with my time than waste 3 hours trying to figure out on a MAC what I already know how to do on my XP box.
Call me a Production Zealot, cuz that’s what I preach.. no matter who asks. I just need the end result.. that’s what pays the bills.
When you get Linux it’s YOURS, when you get Windows, you merely have their permission to use it.
P.S. I have almost no experience with XP, all problems might very well be solved there.
LOL