Sun is challenging Microsoft on a new front: the consumer market. Believing its Java Desktop System is “a more effective home and retail solution,” the company is negotiating with major retailers Wal-Mart and Office Depot to include the desktop on consumer PCs. Elsewhere, Sun strikes software deal with the United Kingdom: Government to implement Java Desktop, application infrastructure in public sector.
JDS Goes to Wal-Mart and then to UK
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Eugenia Loli
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That’s great. I can’t wait to see the JDS in Box form at Best Buy.
Shouldn’t they improve and develop applications targeted to the home-user first?
Good question.
I hope these recent decisions and actions by SUN Micro. will encourage more Java developers to create programs utilizing the Java programming language that are aimed at the desktop.
One can only hope that the recent turn of events will excite these developers and lead to the proliferation of innovative Java Desktop apps.
Lately, the SUN has been shining.
Go SUN Micro.
Scary, I wish them well. But I think Lindows is far better suitd for a home user than JDS.
Very Cool!
…that Sun entered the consumer market. Let’s hope this move is rewarding and not another financial blunder.
Regarding the UK contract, I have mixed feelings. I’m glad to see they are considering an alternative to Microsoft, but I’m not a fan of Java. Sun’s software may save the NHS money, but will it bring with it, its own set of problems? I’m primarily using a Java desktop app at my current workplace and its performance and behaviour is horrible. My last employer was also using a variety of Java apps, and again, I left with a negative impression as an end-user of the software. Furthermore, I simply don’t believe the claims from Sun that Java will run fine on less powerful hardware (their minimum hardware specs for JDS are laughable – a 266MHz Processor for acceptable Java performance?). Anyway, I shall await with interest the results of the evaluation.
Did anyone notice this later in the article:
An IT manager, who asked not to be named, said he could not understand why a user would trade one proprietary desktop for another.
“I personally keep Java off my computer because it crashes the system,” he said. “If Sun had the interests of the customer in mind, then the Sun desktop would be written in C and donated to Linux. Sun is no better than Microsoft.”
Is it me or does this “IT manager” seem to have the conceptual misunderstandings and blind zealotry of an uninformed teenager?
This IT Manager is like a majority in the industry, they have no idea about the technology. Once again, their greatest decision maker is articles in various trade magazines and their own misinterpreted personal experiences. As for end users that hate Java, don’t get upset with Java, get upset with the programmers who write the crappy code. Java shouldn’t crash your system or go three times as slow as C++, that is just bad code.
Agreed.
If you look at the *JDS* you see that is gnome that is running. Just becouse they named it Java desktop does not mean they wrote it in java.
Gnome is written in his precious C
.
But hey… look at it from the bright side… the corporate-greedy-wantonly-money enemys of OSS and linux is in veeeery good hands
I can’t believe these jackasses think JDS is actually WRITTEN in Java! Its re-badged SuSE Linux, mostly written in C!
Man, this kind of stupidity pisses me off!
is there anyone in charge at Sun.
Let me see if I understand this. Sun wants to earn credibility in the consumer desktop market, so they plan on working a deal with WalMart to have JDS deployed on WalMart PCs.
I’m not an expert on this but I very much doubt that the average person buying a PC at WalMart would be considered a tech saavy individual much less a person in the position to make corporate/enterprise purchase and deployment decisions.
Compared to MacOSX and WindowsXP, JDS is not impressive at all.
I do not see what Sun has to gain in deploying JDS on WalMart PCs.
Is it a good idea? Maybe but I don’t see the point. The average consumer is looking for a Windows PC.
Perhaps it’s not the Java that’s crashing the computers, but Windows, the Operating system. Theoretically, in a well behaving O.S. it’s impossible for an application to crash the computer.
Well, that’s all fine and dandy… are they gonna sell apps too? Don’t get me wrong, WE all could grab all the apps we need via the web… but Walmart people? Web savvy? I ain’t convinced… We all know that people are gonna start askin’ can I bring work home? blah blah blah… can I edit video? What about newsletters? The WalmartPeople need lots of guidance… will there be a support staff? My guess is that Windows will be an option, and sadly, the one most people will opt for.
For me… MacOS X…
When you call your desktop, Java Desktop System, what are you infusing into the minds of the public? That the desktop is written and based on Java, right?
I find this deceptive on the part of SUN. That’s one of the reasons I don’t use Java apart from it abysmal performance. SUN tries to shove Java down your throat.
I think a lot people misunderstand the ‘home user’. There is a whole class of user which does nothing but browsing and email use. For this class of user the JDS is ideal.
The same goes for a business, like say a real estate office. Here everyone uses the browser 90% of the time and the other times they type notes.
So it is easy to see how this class of consumer is easily satisfied by the low cost of a JDS equiped low end Walmart machine for their home/work office. Laptop or desktop.
Not everyone NEEDS or can afford a 3ghz ms bloatware box.
For a task centric user I think Linux is going to be a runaway best seller.
When you call your desktop, Java Desktop System, what are you infusing into the minds of the public? That the desktop is written and based on Java, right?
Some more creedence to the “Java Desktop System” name may be given once it’s released with Looking Glass, at which point the desktop environment will be managed by a Java application.
Sun and M$ are like two houses sitting next to each other in the same exclusive neighborhood, neither wants to jump over the fence and set fire to the others home. I agree with the notion that JDS is a solution for SUN customers that have a few Win boxes, mostly for documentation tasks or office related stuff. Sun does have the ability to design a low cost box for the more technical home user, but I can’t see Wal Mart as the likely point of sale for those types of customers.
This may seem like good news, but I’m afraid that JDS still does not compare favorably to Win and especially Apple when it comes to end user experience (especially that most users will come from a background of Win familiarity). What will happen is that linux will get a bad rap – going from “unknown” to “known” is good, going from “unknown” to “poor” is not good. It would have been better to wait for a more polished experience… according to Linus himself, Linux will be ready for the desktop around 2006. For now, it would be best for Linux desktops to be installed in enterprises which have a competent IT person supervising the process. Sorry, but Linux in any form is simply not WalMart ready at this point in time… maybe 2006 it’ll be different.
Some more creedence to the “Java Desktop System” name may be given once it’s released with Looking Glass, at which point the desktop environment will be managed by a Java application.
Oh my God, is Looking Glass going to be Java based? I really hope not.
I’m a Microsoft platform developer and I like the products that have been coming out of MSFT since 2000, but I am glad to see Sun doing things that will make Redmond nervous because I believe that monopolies should be very, very paranoid all the time – not just relaxing on their butts and cruising along without any worries.
I don’t begrudge the Unix fold anything they can gain, but I have to say that I agree with ‘stopdabombing’s assessment (posted just above) 100%.
“For a task centric user I think Linux is going to be a runaway best seller.”
That’s brings up the question: If you’re a task centric user, do you know you’re a task centric user?
Does a task centric user not dream of dream of video editing one day.
It’s like buying a BMW. Most poeple don’t need it, they just know that they want a BMW simply because it’s a BMW. Then there are those that know why people should want a BMW who buy BMWs.
“The average consumer is looking for a Windows PC.”
The average consumer is STUCK with a Windows PC unless they want to spring for a Mac. Getting more OSes into Walmart will get people thinking instead of just buying what’s there. Maybe finally people can have reall choices when they walk into a store to buy a computer.
Hopefully these wallmart pcs do not get released too soon. jde is an ok start, but I would not release it to the public yet. They should wait and do this with a gnome2.6/linux2.6 based system finished for summer 2004. This would give them time to polish it a lot more.
In this time they should:
1. Create a usable theme (ed industrial)
2. Apply this theme to all their apps (java 1.5 should help a lot with gtk integration)
3. Use the gnome versions of apps (eg mozilla->epiphany)
4. Create/refine a click-and-run style system (I have not read any reviews where they can use what it presently there so I do not know what is there now)
Linux 2.6 / Gnome 2.6 would give them:
1. A more responsive system
2. Much better plug and play
3. gstreamer 0.8 – An advanced multimedia framework that works for video (gstreamer 0.6 in their present version is only really good for audio)
4. A hig compliant version of evolution
5. A good fileselector
6. More hig apps (eg rhythmbox)
If they can pull this off I can see cheap wallmart pcs actully being good systems.
” The average consumer is STUCK with a Windows PC unless they want to spring for a Mac. Getting more OSes into Walmart will get people thinking instead of just buying what’s there. Maybe finally people can have reall choices when they walk into a store to buy a computer.”
I don’t think consumers are necessarily stuck with Windows. Like you said there is Apple which IMHO is a very good alternative.
My beef with Sun is what is so different in JDS over Lindows or any other Linux distro? For the average consumer looking for an inexpensive PC a Windows desktop is much more functional than JDS.
If JDS was equal to or better than XP or MacOSX I can see the point. Choice is good but why bother with an alternative that is not even close to the competition?
according to Linus himself, Linux will be ready for the desktop around 2006.
Really? When did he say that? I must have missed it…
Sorry, but Linux in any form is simply not WalMart ready at this point in time…
I guess Lindows would disagree with you. Their preloaded Lindows-PCs have sold reasonably well – and it is very newbie-friendly (despite a few snags).
Linux is ready for a lot of desktops – it may be different, but it’s ready.
My beef with Sun is what is so different in JDS over Lindows or any other Linux distro?
Ah, but there is a KEY difference between JDS and the others. That difference is Sun itself.
While functionally they may all be equivalent, we don’t hear about Lindows, or Red Hat or anyone else talking directly to the U.K. or to Walmart (or to China). (Actually, WalMart sold Lindows machines, wasn’t it? Something like that, I forget, but I don’t want to discount their effort.)
Sun has the market clout to make these large deals, and it has the deep pockets to suck up support dollars and loss-leader the product in hopes of it taking off.
I do agree, however, that for most consumers, bundled Windows on cheap machines are better alternatives. With JDS et al, the consumer is saving money but paying an “opportunity cost” in available applications.
But JDS is NOT ready for the general populatio, it currently has too many problems which I mentioned in the JDS review thread. It is even lacking essential software like XMMS, Java MEdia Player is slow and does not support even beasic features such as playlists and search.
SUN is hurting itself by doing this, for the corporate desktop this might be ok, for HOME DESKTOPS this is an ugly, inconsistent and total disaster.
But JDS is NOT ready for the general populatio, it currently has too many problems which I mentioned in the JDS review thread. It is even lacking essential software like XMMS, Java MEdia Player is slow and does not support even beasic features such as playlists and search.
There’s nothing that says that the JDS Sun is proposing for consumers is identical to the one that was reviewed. A lot of issues in the review can be addressed with some work and time, and no doubt will be.
Like everyone says, it’s just a Linux distro. 101 uses, 1001 configurations.
“I think a lot people misunderstand the ‘home user’. There is a whole class of user which does nothing but browsing and email use. For this class of user the JDS is ideal. ”
It’s not even good enough for this yet, maybe you were reffering to Xandros. JDS is missing plugins that are essential for many home users, such as quicktime and the old flash 6 for linux is very slow (try one more graphically intensiv flash games: http://newgrounds.com/portal/view.php?id=136337) and the sound tends to lag behind the action.
Xandros at least comes with all the plugins you need, but I’m betting it toos uffers from the slow flash problem.
“There’s nothing that says that the JDS Sun is proposing for consumers is identical to the one that was reviewed. A lot of issues in the review can be addressed with some work and time, and no doubt will be.
Like everyone says, it’s just a Linux distro. 101 uses, 1001 configurations. ”
Look, while this is true when it come sto hardware problems, this is not true when it comes to such things as which programs are installed or general bugs, like that Mozilla always crashes on an RPM or theslow and feature lacking Java Media Player. Such things do not change from configuration to configuration.
JDS is just not yet polished enough and lacking too many essential features to be ready, it looks like a very rough and patched together distribution which at the moment also has nothing special other than Sun backing going for it.
I also did not say the same problems in the review will be in the one shipped at Walmart, I only said that I mentioned some problems in that thread, but I oonly tried the evaluation CD.
JDS is just not yet polished enough and lacking too many essential features to be ready, it looks like a very rough and patched together distribution which at the moment also has nothing special other than Sun backing going for it.
Have you used it yet, or are you just making assumptions from screenshots? Overall, the JDS is one of the most well assembled and coherent distributions I’ve used.
I’m really tired of the continuous slew of uninformed comments coming from individuals who have not even seen a JDS system, much less used one. It really is a nicely polished distribution, and one which is certainly fit for the average user in an enterprise environment. As has been said, Sun does have quite a bit of development time before they would begin distributing with the intent for home use, and they’ve already shown they have some truly wonderful software currently in development and testing phase, such as Looking Glass.
An IT manager, who asked not to be named, said he could not understand why a user would trade one proprietary desktop for another.
“I personally keep Java off my computer because it crashes the system,” he said. “If Sun had the interests of the customer in mind, then the Sun desktop would be written in C and donated to Linux. Sun is no better than Microsoft.”
This speaks for itself how the genercal public perceive Java, and Sun still believe everybody is seeing Java as a grown jewel.
I’ve just saw two videos (@ http://www.xtremetechshow.com with some MS bashing, of course
) and it seems to me that Sun is really commited to this strategy.
I think Desktop Linux is feasible to corporate markets and IT professionals (I use it as my main OS both at home and at work). The major obstacles to this are distribution prepackaging (althought this is been addressed) and mind shift about the desktop (most people I know, think the Internet is Internet Explorer and refuse any other aproach to computing)
Both Java and GNOME are getting better every day and I won’t be surprised if Desktop Linux gets much more acceptance by 2005/2006 as companys begin to develop for this platform and FLOSS grows more both in quality and quantity.
As for the two base tecnologies (Linux and X) they’re very promising too on the desktop side (there’s a huge improvement towards responsiveness by both sides).
About JDS, I think it has its rought spots but its heading in the right direction.
As a conclusion, Linux Desktop is feasible right now, it will just take some time to gain more acceptance.
I’m really tired of the continuous slew of uninformed comments coming from individuals who have not even seen a JDS system, much less used one.
If it looks like shit and smells like shit, then it probably is shit. If it’s YALD, then it is DEFINITELY shit. As far as the desktop is concerned, Linux is nothing more than a wanna-be, half-baked attempt at a desktop OS. I have never met anyone who has themselves formatted a Windows partition and installed Linux that wasn’t somehow ‘politically’ motived. And the ‘average user’ could care less about politics.
It really is a nicely polished distribution, and one which is certainly fit for the average user in an enterprise environment.
Maybe I’m not up with the times, but since when have enterprises done their computer shopping at Wal-Mart? Currently, the only two distros that would stand a chance at appeasing Joe Sixpack would be Lindows and Xandros, and that is only if there happens to be a Linux geek available to fix it when it breaks.
Boy someone pissed in your coffee this morning didn’t they?
I myself am very sceptical about Suns’ JDS. The recent success of JDS adds a strange touch to the comment from Suns’ CEO who said “We have no Linux strategy”.
“As far as the desktop is concerned, Linux is nothing more than a wanna-be, half-baked attempt at a desktop OS. I have never met anyone who has themselves formatted a Windows partition and installed Linux that wasn’t somehow ‘politically’ motived. And the ‘average user’ could care less about politics.”
Well you obviously have never administered Linux as a desktop. I have, your statement is rubbish. My problems with JDS are that they took SuSE as its basis. Now SuSE does many great things with their distro, but the GNOME implementation in SuSE is just shy of criminal. This holds for 8.0, 8.1,8.2 and 9.0. SuSE bastardizes GNOME, crippling its configurability and creating an administrators worst nightmare. KDE is great with SuSE. GNOME on SuSE will get better, now that Novell is taking the helm and thrusting SuSE and Ximian developers together.
There is still tremendous work to be done-primarily spit and polish, to perfect Linux as a desktop. But it already functions as a desktop for probably upwards of 1,000,000 people. This does not mean that there is much left to be improved. As a user and a sys admin I use Linux exclusively-and so do all those using the computers which I administer. I know many people who have switched to Linux, only later to find out about the *political* aspects of Linux.
If it looks like shit and smells like shit, then it probably is shit. If it’s YALD, then it is DEFINITELY shit.
Perhaps you’ve missed some of the more glowing reviews of the JDS:
Newsforge: http://www.newsforge.com/newsforge/03/ 09/18/003212.shtml?tid=23
“After spending an evening and morning with the Gnome 2.2-based Java Desktop System, I can report that Sun has what appears to me to be the most polished and real-world user-ready Linux desktop in existence.”
ComputerWorld: http://www.computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/UNID/51C42D4C6818A846CC256D…
“Sun has a desktop package that can be seriously considered by IT departments planning new rollouts. It marks a new battleground in the company?s attempts to challenge Microsoft?s iron grip on the desktop.”
So just what about the JDS “looks like shit and smells like shit”? It seems you too are simply commenting in ignorance.
Maybe I’m not up with the times, but since when have enterprises done their computer shopping at Wal-Mart? Currently, the only two distros that would stand a chance at appeasing Joe Sixpack would be Lindows and Xandros, and that is only if there happens to be a Linux geek available to fix it when it breaks.
Perhaps you missed the intent of my comment. JDS is currently being sold as an enterprise product, but it’s well known that Sun has a number of very interesting tools currently in development, most notably the Looking Glass desktop environment, which, given the timeframe they have before they intend to release the JDS to a home market demographic, could easily be completed and bundled with the version intended for home release. There is little reason why Sun can’t accomplish the same things Apple has with OS X given the technologies and resources at their disposal.
“There is little reason why Sun can’t accomplish the same things Apple has with OS X given the technologies and resources at their disposal.”
Probably, but Sun has their work cut out for them with Looking Glass, and they had better get it right, because it is written 100% in Java and it is intended as a Java application, IIRC. They had better be able to make their JVM as fast as they say they can.
I hope they make it.
according to Linus himself, Linux will be ready for the desktop around 2006.
Really? When did he say that? I must have missed it…
This is common knowledge, I don’t have the original url handy, but even a quick look through OSNews yields this (see “CONCLUSION”):
http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=2837
Sorry, but Linux in any form is simply not WalMart ready at this point in time…
I guess Lindows would disagree with you. Their preloaded Lindows-PCs have sold reasonably well – and it is very newbie-friendly (despite a few snags).
Linux is ready for a lot of desktops – it may be different, but it’s ready.
So what that Lindows sells on WalMart? First, the numbers are still tiny. second if you dig a bit deeper you’ll quickly find out that most buy the systems only for the cheap hardware and immediately install Windows and never use Linux. But that is irrelevant: it may sell, but my point was not that you couldn’t SELL, rather that the average home user will get a BAD experience out of ANY Linux desktop including Lindows (bad compared to Win or Apple).
As to Linux being ready for the desktop – I already said, I think it is definitely ready for the enterprise environment where there is a strong IT person in charge of the desktops. What I said, following Linus, is that for the AVERAGE HOME user, it’ll be ready by about 2006… hopefully.
good…hope in 2006; someone won’t tell me to ‘recompile the kernel’ for a hardware to work
it’s scary you know!!
…and java…it’s very slooooooowww…why bother…???
can’t believe these jackasses think JDS is actually WRITTEN in Java! Its re-badged SuSE Linux, mostly written in C!
Man, this kind of stupidity pisses me off!
Then perhaps Sun shouldn’t have named it _Java_ Desktop System. Man, this kind of free slapping of brands to every products pisses me off 🙂
…that Sun entered the consumer market. Let’s hope this move is rewarding and not another financial blunder.
What ever happens, it can NEVER top the balls up SUN did when they bought Cobalt. Instead of running it as a nice side operation, it butchered it buy merging the sales into the SUN sales model.
SUN’s sales model is not the type of sales model that can be applied to the market that Cobalt was serving. Cobalt was serving small to medium size businesses who liked the fact that they could ring up and order directly from them.
I’m sure there are a few more that could be used as an example of something worse than if they failed with the desktop. Nope, got one more, “Java Station”, thin clients running a Java based embedded operating system.
The list of failures and lack of focus is as bad as Corel. The only difference is that Corel didn’t have a pile of cash to fall back on everytime there was a balls up.
Regarding the UK contract, I have mixed feelings. I’m glad to see they are considering an alternative to Microsoft, but I’m not a fan of Java. Sun’s software may save the NHS money, but will it bring with it, its own set of problems? I’m primarily using a Java desktop app at my current workplace and its performance and behaviour is horrible.
Funny you mention that considering that 9/10 of have lazy IT staff incapable of installing the latest version of J2SE. The number of desktops I have seen still using Microsofts JVM or some ancient J2SE JRE from SUN is almost enough to bring a grown man to tears.
I mean, in this day in age, am I am expecting to much for the IT staff to do their job and install J2SE 1.4.2 within a timely manor? heck, all of this can be done either ZenWorks or what ever Microsoft uses for their application distribution.
When you call your desktop, Java Desktop System, what are you infusing into the minds of the public? That the desktop is written and based on Java, right?
I find this deceptive on the part of SUN. That’s one of the reasons I don’t use Java apart from it abysmal performance. SUN tries to shove Java down your throat.
Considering that average user doesn’t know nor give a shit about Java, what on gods green earth are you going on about? How is tagging Java to SUN products any worse than Microsoft tagging .NET and eXPerience to every bloody product within a 100metre radius of Windows?
As for “Java’s abysmal performace”, sorry sunshine, if you write your application properly, you should only see a small drop in performance. If the performance hit is that bad, obviously the person who wrote it is a complete half-witt.
An IT manager, who asked not to be named, said he could not understand why a user would trade one proprietary desktop for another.
“I personally keep Java off my computer because it crashes the system,” he said. “If Sun had the interests of the customer in mind, then the Sun desktop would be written in C and donated to Linux. Sun is no better than Microsoft.”
Is this the state of IT employees in the world? when we have bleeding half-witts like this giving their 5cents worth of wisdom even though they’ve never actually used NOR programmed in their life.
If this was an employee in my company, I would fire him immediately. Someone like that should do us all a favour and stop being such an oxygen and space thief.
I was wondering why no one in this thread is asking why Walmart, the number one retailer is fooling around experimenting with all of these other computer software offerings? I mean, they have been selling Lindows preloaded on Walmart PCs for a while now, and now this Sun software next…why? The real reason is because of the pricing of Windows XP…have you checked the price of Windows XP at Walmart lately? It’s basically slightly higher or the going rate of common street price. Anyone who knows about Walmart’s business practices knows that their stragegy to moving volumes of stuff, whether it be toothpaste, cameras, toilet paper or software is PRICE. WALMART IS TRYING TO GENERATE INTEREST in other preloadable types of software so they can either (1) get a better price for XP and sell it lower than other competitors (which they do not do at the moment) or (2) get rediculous discounts from Microsoft on pre-loaded Windows (which Walmart also does not have). THEY ARE LOOKING TO LOWER PRICES by creating a bargaining chip that they can use with Microsoft. Yeah, the Sun or the Lindows software may or may not be as good as Windows XP, but damn, we sold 3 million copies of that crap last week…see what we can do for you Microsoft? Although I do shop at Walmart, I think some of the pricing crap they pull with their vendors devaluates and ruins the American economy, but that is just my 2 cents. Microsoft may not be the biggest company in the world, but they sure are the richest. Even Walmart does not have a lot of clout with MS, since Windows is such an entrenched OS in the U.S.A. Tell me what you think…
Dano.
“I do not see what Sun has to gain in deploying JDS on WalMart PCs.
Is it a good idea? Maybe but I don’t see the point. The average consumer is looking for a Windows PC.”
//The average consumer already owns a Windows PC, and if it //were working fine they wouldnt be at Walmart buying a new //PC.
// Think first, post second.
The high ghz, high ram, big HD machines have a great appeal for another reason … longevity. Buy a decent machine now, well-built, with “overkill” and it’s more likely to be useable a few years from now. Me as an OS tinkerer doesn’t mind buying surplus machines, and reinstalling OS each time. But the average user just needs something to work with for a few years, browse the web, type up papers, send email, etc.
The $159 No OS and linux boxes could have a big market though. Plenty of people would spring for something at that price as a second PC or even main machine. Linux is partially alien to some users because they grew up with Windows and MS Dos. For just emailing and browsing, one of the linux microtels would work well for many users new to computers. Just needs a few killer apps, perhaps a real port of AOL to attract newbies. (The instant aol wasn’t full-featured though, and lindows aol didn’t do dialup.)
I was wondering why no one in this thread is asking why Walmart, the number one retailer is fooling around experimenting with all of these other computer software offerings? I mean, they have been selling Lindows pre-loaded on Walmart PCs for a while now, and now this Sun software next…why?
They see that there is a demand for low cost PC’s but they’ve probably looked at the customers and if they can tag the SUN name with the PC’s they sell, it would add alot more weight to the customers interest.
The customer they’re serving are your typical PC user, they load the computer, write a letter, send an email and possibly surf a few web-sites. Put the hype of “multi-media cameras” and “mp3 players” aside and look at the reality at the task at hand, the fact remains Joe and Jane Doe of Wisconsin have a PS2 for little Billy to play games and the PC they’ve just bought from Walmart with JDS pre-loaded is for them to surf the web, pay the bills and write some e-mails and letters.
Joe consumer don’t purchase the latest gizmos. People who buy those gizmos tend to be upper middle income people, technical back ground. They make up only 10-15% of the over all market, the rest of the people out there have no interest in that sort of thing. They see a computer as a tool to get something done, if they can get it done, they don’t give a tinkers cuss over what it runs and since they aren’t going to hook up the latest and greatest gizmo, hardware support is a non-issue.
As for software, how many users out there who are still running software they originally received when they bought their computer 4 years ago? you would be *lucky* to see the average consumer whip out their cash card to purchase Office or some other title.
Don’t let the Microsoft fan boys fool you, the whole software industry isn’t driven by consumer demand but by corporate sales. Corporate sales make up the vast majority of hardware and software sales. 85% of Dells hardware sales are not to the consumer but to enterprise and public sector, the same is similar for Microsoft.
As for the adoption of JDS, they have already announced so far 2 million installations have been sold (2 million employees) and this keeps rising by the day. Companies are now rationalising their software purchases. Does it do the job? is the re-training minimal? corporations are now saying,”why are we paying for a whole heap of features we neither need or want?”, “do we really want to have ourselves by the short and curlies”. The fact remains that there is viable replacement for Windows and unlike IBM and HP (who chants Linux but appears to go on the SCO product road show), SUN is pushing this product harder than anyone else in the marketplace.
Instead of the anti-SUN people screaming, how about cheering the fact that we now have an extra 2 million users out there and possibly THOSE employees could decide that they TOO wish to make the “great leap into the unknown”. How about also cheering the fact that with these employees come a larger pool of demand for applications which will then ripple through the Linux desktop market.
If in 2 years we have 3 main competing desktops, JDS, Red Hat Enterprise and SuSE/Novell Linux, isn’t it better to have consolidation resulting in greater uniformity rather than having 100s of misguided distributions lacking consistency and as a result unable to put up a decent fight against Microsoft?
i like the fact that there are cheap options at the local wal-mart. most non-IT people i know use their PCs for simple things, like email, surfing, and IMing. as long as Sun’s JDS is fairly easy to configure with an ISP, it should sell well. for the price of a non-upgrade version of windows XP and Office XP, a person can buy a couple of JDS boxes. that says a lot, maybe not to companies or power users but to people who don’t have a lot of money yet who need a computer as much as anyone. if Sun can create some curiosity or these cheap boxes bring with it a “cool” factor, then they do have a shot at finding a niche in the retail market. MS can’t compete in the discount bin space at all; perhaps Sun can. personally, i’m just happy to have more options when it comes to OSs.
-d.
Sorry Daren, but the design of a programming language can also affect the stability of a machine. For instance, C/C++ have unlimited access to memory. Therefore, I can access any address of memory I choose to. Usually crashes occur due to improper memory access.
Java on the other hand is supposed to provide a heap to isolate the memory access. However, the JVM must be of sufficient quality in order to provide such an area. When Java first was becoming the “next best thing,” it was sold as a secure environment. I think we all know better now.
A well behaving OS is not sufficient, it also requires the application developers to provide stable code. No matter how perfect an OS is, a developer can always find a way to cause havoc to the OS (intentionally or unintentionally)
>>They see that there is a demand for low cost PC’s but they’ve probably looked at the customers and if they can tag the SUN name with the PC’s they sell, it would add alot more weight to the customers interest.
How many Joe SixPacks actually know the Sun brand? Sun and Walmart are like oxymorons.
>>The customer they’re serving are your typical PC user, they load the computer, write a letter, send an email and possibly surf a few web-sites. Put the hype of “multi-media cameras” and “mp3 players” aside and look at the reality at the task at hand, the fact remains Joe and Jane Doe of Wisconsin have a PS2 for little Billy to play games and the PC they’ve just bought from Walmart with JDS pre-loaded is for them to surf the web, pay the bills and write some e-mails and letters.
That OK until their neighbor gives them a boxed version of Casino games for Christmas, and the software only runs in Windows. Everyone that is into alternate OS’s think that all people use are the apps that are installed with the computer from the store, which is definitely NOT true.
>>Joe consumer don’t purchase the latest gizmos. People who buy those gizmos tend to be upper middle income people, technical back ground.
I’m not sure about this one either. Once Walmart gets their hands on the latest gizmo, its down with prices. Remember how cool, sophisticated and expensive DVD players used to be???
>>They see a computer as a tool to get something done, if they can get it done, they don’t give a tinkers cuss over what it runs and since they aren’t going to hook up the latest and greatest gizmo, hardware support is a non-issue.
How am I going to hook up my webcam, and share porn on AOL if I can’t run AOL? See what I mean? Joe and Jane Sixpack LOVES AOL!!!
>>As for software, how many users out there who are still running software they originally received when they bought their computer 4 years ago?
Under Linux, all that old Windows stuff is useless. You are going against your original post!
>>Don’t let the Microsoft fan boys fool you, the whole software industry isn’t driven by consumer demand but by corporate sales.
Is that why Microsoft created Windows XP? I mean Windows 2000 was fine for work…but people want Multimedia at home…!!!
>>As for the adoption of JDS, they have already announced so far 2 million installations have been sold (2 million employees) and this keeps rising by the day.
Who is using JDS? I bet the number is really “rounded up”
That Casion Games CD from Walmart may not work properly on a Windows XP computer either. My mom, with her Dell laptop and XP home has had lots of problem buying windows software from walmart. Lots of it doesn’t work on XP. Specifically the software that says windows 95/ windows 98 on it. So just because it’s windows software doesn’t mean it works on a Windows computer!
If walmart starts selling Lindows/Linux on the retail floor I assume they will have a software section for said OS on the floor as well.
Hcuar,
Are you saying that an application running in user space can crash a whole computer? Is this true? Is this true in all OS’s?
I did notice that you said Java was having problems when it was becoming the next best thing. I too know about the early problems Java had with speed. I programmed in java for over a year around the 1.2x era of Java and have not had problems with it. I think it was pretty good then and is most likely even better now.
Thanks,
Daren