Sun Microsystems Inc. plans to release midyear the second version of its Java Desktop System, featuring new tools for centralized management of client systems — and a higher price tag. Sun released last year the debut version of the Java Desktop System (JDS), its attempt to win a share in the desktop operating system (OS) and applications market away from Microsoft Corp. The software is currently selling at a promotional price of $50 per user, per year, but the cost will rise to the product’s planned selling price of $100 per user with JDS’ second release, according to Peder Ulander, Sun’s desktop products marketing director. MadPenguin posted a review with screenshots of JDS.
Sun Preps Second Version of Java Desktop; Review at MadPenguin
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Eugenia Loli
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Yep, Xandros is a good role model, since JDS is basically a Gnome version of what Xandros put together with KDE. For those of you who criticize Xandros for not including Gnome, here is your solution. However, you’ll have to open your pocketbooks a little bit wider for this distro…
I have read over and over that everyone will be moving to a subscription based income model. As excitied about JDS as I was, I really hope it doesn’t catch on until the pricing is redone. I’d pay more up front if need be, but I don’t like the idea of a monthly bill for my software.
How is that not suprising from the company that gets very personal about its competitors (even linux).
I really don’t like JDS as it dosn’t really offer that much new. This is no real integration between the java apps, and so forth. It might get better in time, but curently, the best thing going for it is barnd name recognition…
From the looks of it, its fairly polished. Just needs a bit more work to make it worthwhile. I dont mind the idea of a $50 a year OS, I assume that is for updates etc. It doesnt mean that after a year of not paying, it will expire and lock you out or something. Its the same model as OSX pretty much, yearly update at $129, so whats new? I think sun has the potential to bring a well rounded distro to the public, lets remember this is also V1 software (to Sun anyway).
What is there in JDS to justify paying $50 (or $100) instead of getting a free download from SUSE?
The same thing that is in SuSE to justify paying $40 for it.
What is there in JDS to justify paying $50 (or $100) instead of getting a free download from SUSE?
JDS is an enterprise desktop designed to integrate with the server components of the Java Enterprise System. If you’re looking at JDS from a home user’s perspective, then really there is no reason to purchase it and no justification for the cost.
Your confusion mirrors that of the article’s author, who was frustrated by the lack of SMB support. JDS was not designed for use on a network with Windows servers, but instead designed to be used in conjunction with Sun’s servers, which would utilize NFS instead of SMB…
the only thing that intrests me remotely about JDS is the “looking glass” demo. Theres not really anything else special about this distro.
“JDS was not designed for use on a network with Windows servers, but instead designed to be used in conjunction with Sun’s servers, which would utilize NFS instead of SMB…”
That’s a pretty convenient excuse. SMB is as popular if not more popular than NFS. If Sun is planning on catering to Sun only networks that is a huge mistake and will only speed up their current declining market position.
I also think $100 per seat is excessive. JDS doesn’t have that much going for it. It’s just Suse and Gnome with a bit of polish. Drop Gnome/Ximian on ANY modern linux distro and JDS doesn’t appear special in the least.
btw next release they REALLY need to change the stupid name which has been a total failure marketing wise. It’s NOT a Java Desktop.
All the screenshots I have seen from this OS have looked very good.
Hopefully they will integrate Java better in the future and an option to get it for free
That’s a pretty convenient excuse. SMB is as popular if not more popular than NFS. If Sun is planning on catering to Sun only networks that is a huge mistake and will only speed up their current declining market position.
Sun is selling an enterprise computing package to companies/governments looking to upgrade their entire infrastructure. Consequently, interoperability isn’t a major concern.
Certainly their biggest sale of the JDS so far (the China deal) wasn’t one of these situations, and in these sorts of roles interoperability should be improved.
I also think $100 per seat is excessive. JDS doesn’t have that much going for it. It’s just Suse and Gnome with a bit of polish. Drop Gnome/Ximian on ANY modern linux distro and JDS doesn’t appear special in the least.
JDS is the only Linux distribution being offered by a tier 1 vendor, and the only distribution from which consumers will expect support befitting a tier 1 vendor. Simple as that.
btw next release they REALLY need to change the stupid name which has been a total failure marketing wise.
Failure marketing wise? Orion and MadHatter, which became the Java Enterprise System and Java Desktop System respectively, were together a bet-the-company deals which has been paying off tremendously for Sun. The China deal alone caused Sun’s stock price to jump up 10%.
Please read the following articles, which will inform you not only as to the success of the Java Enterprise and Java Desktop systems, but also why they were chosen over alternatives:
http://www.javalobby.org/thread.jspa?forumID=61&threadID=9599
http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/print.php/3286251
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040113/sftu051a_1.html
http://www.computerworld.com/developmenttopics/websitemgmt/story/0,…
As to why it’s called the “Java Desktop System”, Sun is attempting to build a complete desktop environment from Java applications, most notably Looking Glass. The reasoning behind this is that they intend to market several different versions in addition to the Linux one they’re currently offering, most notably offering their current Sunray thin client users the complete Java Desktop System running on top of their Solaris/SPARC servers. It’s also expected that the next generation of Sunrays will sport nVidia video chipsets, and that Sun will launch “3D Sunrays” capable of running Looking Glass. It’s also been rumored that Sun will launch a version of the Java Desktop System with Solaris/x86 as the underlying operating system.
Let me ask you this… if the entire desktop environment is managed by a Java application (i.e. Looking Glass), does that not make it a “Java Desktop System”?
Bottom line:
Making comments like “Why would I buy the JDS over SuSE?” are completely ridiculous. Sun is not selling to you. They don’t really care about you or expect you to buy the JDS.
Making comments like “Why would the British Government buy the JDS over SuSE?” are equally as ridiculous. SuSE is still a self-contained entity despite being owned by Novell, and doesn’t have the resources to support a customer base as huge as, oh, the entire British government, or the entire country of China.
Every thread about the JDS seems to spawn the same ridiculous comments. Unfortunately the people making them never seem to learn…
I also think $100 per seat is excessive.
I should also note that the $100/employee/year is the cost of the Java Enterprise System, not the Java Desktop System. The Java Desktop System is $50/seat/year. The Java Enterprise System pricing is highly competative, and of the four articles I linked in the above post this one is the most pertainent to the cost savings of the Java Enterprise System:
http://www.computerworld.com/developmenttopics/websitemgmt/story/0,…
The autor says he liked it (and wow, I don’t blame him!) so much, that he downloaded it himself. Hmmm…. let’s see…
“The autor says he liked it (and wow, I don’t blame him!) so much, that he downloaded it himself. Hmmm…. let’s see…”
I saw it on a screenshot of it running on JDS on the Sun website a couple of weeks ago and liked the look of it. So I have downloaded it and did a network install on my departmental Linux server (I have a Sun Win JRE on the same Samba diectory) so I can be used on any of the Win clients on the network even if they don’t have their own JVM. The same code from this directory can be also be used with the Linux server’s JVM to examine the servers filesystem.
It’s cool – you can extract a great deal of info about what is using up your disk space from its reports. The only problem is the normal Java desktop app slow loading.
So of course I installed it on my Linux box at home.
I’d like to try JDS part 2, but I don’t use Java at all, it would be better if Sun provided a Standard C++ library.
http://www.jgoodies.com
Karsten is a great developer. I own his Swing Suite framework
Check him out.
-jason
is quite ugly, the use of purple and grey is a big turn off.
What’s the advantage of JDISK vs. Filelight or KDirStat?
http://www.methylblue.com/filelight/
http://kdirstat.sourceforge.net/
So I take it, it will still use Suse still even though they said they was going to chage that?
“JDS was not designed for use on a network with Windows servers, but instead designed to be used in conjunction with Sun’s servers, which would utilize NFS instead of SMB…”
That’s a pretty convenient excuse. SMB is as popular if not more popular than NFS. If Sun is planning on catering to Sun only networks that is a huge mistake and will only speed up their current declining market position.
Nice to see that you pay attention to the fact that every UNIX out there supports NFS, even your beloved Linux. As for NFS server, you can do this with Windows as well using the SFU package from Microsoft, free of charge.
I’d like to try JDS part 2, but I don’t use Java at all, it would be better if Sun provided a Standard C++ library.
Of course they have a standard C++ library you idiot, how on gods green earth did they get YAST running which is CLEARY a C++ application. Geeze, morons, they live, breed and messy the gene pool for the rest of us
[i]”JDS is the only Linux distribution being offered by a tier 1 vendor, and the only distribution from which consumers will expect support befitting a tier 1 vendor. Simple as that.”[i]
Okay, I’m an idiot (seriously), so what does that mean exactly? What kind of support services will Sun, a tier 1 vendor, offer that SuSE wouldn’t?
“JDS is the only Linux distribution being offered by a tier 1 vendor, and the only distribution from which consumers will expect support befitting a tier 1 vendor. Simple as that.”
Okay, I’m an idiot (seriously), so what does that mean exactly? What kind of support services will Sun, a tier 1 vendor, offer that SuSE wouldn’t?
Ok, may first you should get a job in one of those companies which Bascule works for then you’ll realise the value of SUNs services. Until you’re in that situation, you’re yet another poor little geek making cheap shots a company who you can’t understand.
Oh brother, what in the world is *that*. Repackaging gnome and making it even more windowsey must have taken a lot of brain power. Seriously, Sun has been the most boring company on the scene for the last twenty years. You can’t make a better Windows than MS, so try something new (osx, beos). Well I guess one can make a cheaper Windows and score a big contract in China, but can one sleep at night having produced something so poor.
Oh christ all bloody mightly, yet another, “it isn’t innovative”, if it makes a buck and serves the customer, who cares if it is innovative or not. A car is not innovative compared to other forms to transport yet millions of people are quite happy about using their “boring” car each day.
Why is it EVERYTIME we have a successful company, we have a group of people suffering from the tall poppy syndrome matching on osnews.com to moan about trivial matters?
Ya, they repackaged SuSe. They made gnome the default and made the whole package much more corporation friendly. Then they sold support…..what are we complaining about? Did anyone really expect something huge and different on the first release?
I dislike Sun as a company, but they make a good product for the most part and it is great to have their name behind Open Source.
Someone said:
“JDS is the only Linux distribution being offered by a tier 1 vendor, and the only distribution from which consumers will expect support befitting a tier 1 vendor. Simple as that.”
I asked:
“Okay, I’m an idiot (seriously), so what does that mean exactly? What kind of support services will Sun, a tier 1 vendor, offer that SuSE wouldn’t?”
You answered:
“Ok, may first you should get a job in one of those companies which Bascule works for then you’ll realise the value of SUNs services. Until you’re in that situation, you’re yet another poor little geek making cheap shots a company who you can’t understand.”
Huh? Where did I make a cheap shot, exactly? I openly admitted I didn’t know what I was talking about and then asked someone to please explain what the difference between “tier 1” support from Sun and regular ol’ corporate support from SuSE was.
Should I assume that your refusal to answer the question (along with your need to denigrate others) is the result of your inability to do so?
Well tried installing this one, for some reason it brings up lovely install screen says its installing then it just turns my machine off! Eh?
Did they actually test this thing on a plain pc?
I have no conflicts at all, so why it do that?
Must be the way Sun want people to go, elsewhere.
Okay, I’m an idiot (seriously), so what does that mean exactly? What kind of support services will Sun, a tier 1 vendor, offer that SuSE wouldn’t?
Tier 1 OEMs are designated so by market analysts. Tier 1 designation is primarily a trust issue… do you think SuSE is equipped to handle clients as large as, say, the entire country of China, or the entire British Government?
“Tier 1 OEMs are designated so by market analysts. Tier 1 designation is primarily a trust issue… do you think SuSE is equipped to handle clients as large as, say, the entire country of China, or the entire British Government?”
I guess I assumed that governments and large corps would already have internal IT departments to handle their large user base and that it would be the supplier (ie Sun or SuSE) who deals soley with the (relatively) small number of IT department folks.
Just to help me wrap my head around this, could you give me an example situation that Sun would handle better than SuSE.
Thanks in advance!
“Tier 1 OEMs are designated so by market analysts. Tier 1 designation is primarily a trust issue… do you think SuSE is equipped to handle clients as large as, say, the entire country of China, or the entire British Government?”
I guess I assumed that governments and large corps would already have internal IT departments to handle their large user base and that it would be the supplier (ie Sun or SuSE) who deals soley with the (relatively) small number of IT department folks.
Just to help me wrap my head around this, could you give me an example situation that Sun would handle better than SuSE.
Most companies and government departments have a basic maintainance IT team which maintains the network, just general house keeping, just enough to keep the clock ticking, no more, no less.
When they deploy a new system, they outsource it on contract, normally anywhere from 3 to 12months. SuSE does not have the capacity to do this where as SUN and its partners do.
Again I stress, until you have been in the position of Bascule and I, you’ll NEVER understand how IT in the corporate world works.
“Again I stress, until you have been in the position of Bascule and I, you’ll NEVER understand how IT in the corporate world works.”
And again I stress, I NEVER claimed to understand it. I asked my question so that I might begin to understand but instead just got berated by you. Is a little tact too much to ask for?
“Again I stress, until you have been in the position of Bascule and I, you’ll NEVER understand how IT in the corporate world works.”
And again I stress, I NEVER claimed to understand it. I asked my question so that I might begin to understand but instead just got berated by you. Is a little tact too much to ask for?
How about learning some mannors instead of insuating that SUN or who ever is trying to rip customers off:
Okay, I’m an idiot (seriously), so what does that mean exactly? What kind of support services will Sun, a tier 1 vendor, offer that SuSE wouldn’t?
Translation: “Why would I want to waste money using SUN, they’re just another Linux tag along, whats wrong with SuSE”
Learn some tactfulness. If you wanted to ask a question, do it in this mannor:
“Yes, I understand that SUN is classified as a tier 1 vendor, however, I can curious to how one becomes classified as a tier 1 vendor? what sort of services and products to they offer which differentiate themselves from vendors of a lower tier?”
Two which I would have explained the hardware and software support, consultancy services and so forth. I would also explain that there is also issue of being able to serve a multinational who has officers around the world. Instead of having a different vendor for each country, they can use the same company for the whole organisation and if the tier one vendor isn’t there, they can interact with a company who are authorised partners of SUN.
What also peeves us off is the same question keeps being asked EVERY time by the SAME people. These SAME people refuse to read the replies and simply ask the same question again at a later date. Example of this are the XFree86 is slow whiners who have been corrected so many times I am sure the people who reply have the reply on auto post.
“‘Okay, I’m an idiot (seriously), so what does that mean exactly? What kind of support services will Sun, a tier 1 vendor, offer that SuSE wouldn’t?’
Translation: ‘Why would I want to waste money using SUN, they’re just another Linux tag along, whats wrong with SuSE’
Learn some tactfulness.”
I’ve been nothing but civil so far, unlike some. I don’t understand why you automatically assumed that my message was flamebait.
“What also peeves us off is the same question keeps being asked EVERY time by the SAME people. These SAME people refuse to read the replies and simply ask the same question again at a later date.”
Huh? This is the first time I’ve posted a comment about JDS ever. Why are you taking out your agression on me?
I can’t wait for JDS for Solaris. With that being said. I think the Software pricing model for JDS is good however there needs to be more option. MOST COMPANIES offer a monthly or yearly fee based on “unlimited upgrades” and “unlimited support”.. And those MOST COMPANIES also offer the software to be sold for “a higher initial buy price” that provides “limited support & upgrades”
Geez.. Sun is learning with consumer software so, yeah. go e-mail your complaints to Sun’s software CEO. He actually reads it..