The EU antitrust case against Microsoft is a battle over the future technical standards for Hollywood films, online music and other forms of digital entertainment, analysts say.
Microsoft Battle in Brussels is About Hollywood, Digital Entertainment
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
I’d like to see some statistics on what Media Player customers choose who end up purchasing the version of Windows with none included. When it comes to browsers I choose Firefox, when it comes to IM I choose Trillian, but when it comes to Media Players I choose Windows Media over Real / Helix, VLC or Quicktime. Would like to see what people choose when they have a choice.
When it comes to downloading, whatever file format THEY decide to put it in determines what we have to use. Then there’s bundling. So here I am alternately listening to cds through WMP (because it comes with Windows. If Winamp came with it, I’d use that)or listening to .rm and .rams with Real Player because it’s used on alot of websites. Occasionally watching a .mov so that means getting QuickTime. So how much choice do we really have?
I can almost see their point, _if_ WM was dominant, but I just don’t see it. As far as delivering content goes, I know no one who uses WM exclusively, nor plans to use it, and I work in the media industry.
As far as observing all the content out there on the net, I’ve rarely seen WM as the only format available, unless it was at a Microsoft related site (no biggie there). As far as observing friends’ computers and such, they’ve usually got Real installed, or on their Macs it’s iTunes and Quicktime. I’m usually on a Mac, but on the machines I have with Windows, I’ve got just about everything installed, and bypass the audio encoder on Windows Media Player with an MP3 one.
<quote>Would like to see what people choose when they have a choice</quote>
Right,
and I would like to see which DVD format people choose when they have a choice of HD-DVD encrypted by the M$’s algorithm and nothing else.
think we’ll be seeing DeCSS battle all over again?
I’m really pushing the EU will win this one, and force Microsoft to unbundle their “add-ons” from their operating system.
I never use Windows Media Player, unless I’m watching highlights of sporting events, which they don’t really offer a selection to view these highlights.
But Microsoft is hurting themselves, by bundling all these, what are really considered operating system add-ons. Implementing Windows Media Player, Internet Explorer, etc… into the core operating system is just showing that their a monopoly and nobody in the US is going to stop us. I mean come on, they force EVERYONE else out of Windows – forcing people to have to go to the companies website and download the freakin product! Windows should come with just the operating system. Put all their “add-ons” on a seperate CD or something, or make people go to http://www.microsoft.com/downloads and get what they need.
Or at least give people the power to UNINSTALL the stupid products. They make you believe you can uninstall Windows Messenger, Internet Explorer, Office Express, etc… by being able to uncheck the component in the add/remove windows components. But the darn application is still there, you just don’t have the shortcut in your start menu. What kind of stuff is that.
It’s Microsoft’s fault for making the EU put the hand down. It’s just VERY disappointing that the United States government got scared and backed out!
I’m mean it’s plain as freakin day! Everyone sees it but the US government, it’s pathetic! And I’m pissed off to even have a government that doesn’t even follow a simple law like competitive business. God.
At Telepolis, a renowned German internet magazine, Reinhard Jellen writes about some issues from the fine-print of Mario Monti’s decision that could lead to an even more strengthened position for Microsoft (and: In Germany, April fools day is already over).
It says: The EU commission claim for interface information disclosure should be obtained _for_a_license_fee_. Taken together with TRIPS (Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights), Microsoft could get a legal hold on all proprietary protocols they hold in Europe and are (now) free of charge. Thus, Microsoft could, e.g., charge a fee from Samba for using the SMB protocol(s) on a number-of-units basis and, thus, kick them off the market. Through the back door this conviction could — through the imposed requirements — be a lucrative business for Microsoft that even may lead to a strengthened market power through putting their competitors out of business.
The URL (German text only): http://www.heise.de/tp/deutsch/inhalt/te/17096/1.html
-xT
I usually install the ‘big 3’ media players, and then associate everything possible with the open source Media Player Classic and use that
Worst thing about the media players on Windows, is that they want to throw in everything but the kitchen sink – I don’t need damn CD burning capabilities on an app that I use to view streaming videos with.
Try iTunes. Best audio player I have ever used by far. I haven’t used Quick Time much, but when I have I didn’t see anything that was that much better than Media Player. I could never go back to Media Player for music, though. Ever.
The main problem is proprietary audio/video formats.
When I got to http://www.vh1.com, I can’t listen to the stations
because I’m not running Windows. I’m running Linux although
the site detects my machine as a Mac.
When I want to view video clips at http://www.uefa.com, I can’t
because Real One doesn’t exist for Linux. I can’t use iTunes
because I’m not running Windows or OS X.
The best solution is to somehow convince the industry to support and use open audio/video
streaming protocols.
In the case of MS distributing their own media player, the industry will be compelled
to provide audio/video streams in MS formats because it is highly probably that
the customer has media player already installed. This will lead to a defacto standard which will be proprietary. There will be no way for anybody to compete, and we
will all be paying royalties to MS forever…
I can’t
because Real One doesn’t exist for Linux.
I might be wrong but cant you just use real player 8 /w these codecs.
http://realforum.real.com/cgi-bin/unixplayer/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&B…
I can’t
because Real One doesn’t exist for Linux.
I might be wrong but cant you just use real player 8 /w these codecs.
http://realforum.real.com/cgi-bin/unixplayer/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&a…..
—
thanks. i have these installed but I would need
the mime type for RealOne because the site thinks I don’t
have it.
I am sick and tired of seeing crap proprietry formats used on media streaming content sites. Why can’t content providers give us media in open formats that are of a generally better quality than their proprietry counterparts.
Yes, Ogg Vorbis for audio and Divx for video. Our ideas and art are at stake with this and we shouldn’t be tied into a companies format of which we have no control over.
Real.ONE.Player.Linux.bin: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.0.0, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped
638fac07778b765bcebcad44862770b1 Real.ONE.Player.Linux.bin
How is Divx an open format? Its controlled by a single company. Scratch that one from the list.
Sorry, but MPEG/AVC is where its at.
Justin Sane: I’d like to see some statistics on what Media Player customers choose who end up purchasing the version of Windows with none included.
Yes, it would be interesting. But somehow I doubt much of those WMP-less Windows users would end up without WMP installed in the end; after all, a lot of applications and sites are using it.
Justin Sane: Would like to see what people choose when they have a choice.
Well, you see, they already have a choice. I can download RealONE, Quicktime, etc. at my wish and use it as my default player. Heck, if I get too annoyed with WMP’s icons dotted around Windows, I could always hide it in the Add/Remove Programs dialog. And considering that most Windows sales happen via OEM, because of the DOJ, OEMs can do exactly just that to the computer before shipping it to you.
Justin Sane: So here I am alternately listening to cds through WMP (because it comes with Windows. If Winamp came with it, I’d use that)or listening to .rm and .rams with Real Player because it’s used on alot of websites.
You do know that on my slow dial-up, I could download WinAMP within minutes; currently on my ADSL, I could download it within seconds. Certainly, if you like WinAMP, download it. I’ve seen people with slower connections and less computer knowhow doing so (and I never really understood why people like a player with small text and tiny icons…)
w_Tarchalski: Right, and I would like to see which DVD format people choose when they have a choice of HD-DVD encrypted by the M$’s algorithm and nothing else.
Considering that HD-DVD is unlikely to go mainstream due to lack of support by the MPAA, various DVD consortiums, etc., I would say none of them. However, today’s leading DVD-replacement format is the Blu-Ray disc, BD-ROM video. And considering that Sony and partners are leading that format, and leaning towards MPEG, don’t expect Microsoft to dominate this sector.
After all, most people do watch their DVDs not on their PCs but on their DVD players.
Heck, the people actually controlling what formats to go mainstream, and what formats that would be utter market failures ain’t even close to Microsoft. It is a cartel otherwise known as MPAA.
I’m really pushing the EU will win this one, and force Microsoft to unbundle their “add-ons” from their operating system.
Uhm, they are more than simple add-ons where a simple GUI can easily pull them out of the system with no effect to application compatiblity.
I never use Windows Media Player, unless I’m watching highlights of sporting events, which they don’t really offer a selection to view these highlights.
Then, by all means, don’t. And don’t complain about it unless Microsoft is forcing you to use WMP and preventing you to install altenatives.
Windows should come with just the operating system.
What is “just the operating system”? Cause, two decades ago, a printer stack would be a third-party add-on, now most, if not all, major operating system comes with a printer stack with it. Some 2 decades ago, MS-DOS didn’t come with a network stack either, should that go too? What exactly is “just the operating system”?
Matt S.: Or at least give people the power to UNINSTALL the stupid products. They make you believe you can uninstall Windows Messenger, Internet Explorer, Office Express, etc… by being able to uncheck the component in the add/remove windows components. But the darn application is still there, you just don’t have the shortcut in your start menu.
Thus the entire idea. The purpose is to hide these applications so that to the user they aren’t there. They can’t open WMP if they wanted to. When they put a music CD into their drive, it wouldn’t automatically play in WMP. The same goes when you insert a DVD. And the likes. But while to the user WMP (and other “middleware”) is in all practice and purposes gone, third-party and Microsoft applications can still use APIs related to them. Windows Help can still use MSHTML to render its help system. Kazaa can still use various WMP components for media previews.
Thus the big idea.
Matt S.: It’s Microsoft’s fault for making the EU put the hand down. It’s just VERY disappointing that the United States government got scared and backed out!
The DOJ didn’t got scared and backed out. They have little to loose with Microsoft getting punished harshly. Other than negative effects within the market, loss of jobs, and no changes to help competition – DOJ wouldn’t get hurted. Such “remedies” do little to “remedy” the situation. In many cases, it could even increase negative effects of Microsoft’s monopoly and help protect it.
Try iTunes. Best audio player I have ever used by far.
Urgh… I have iTunes installed. Kinda like how everything is placed in the user interface, to a certain degree. Hate its extreme sluggishness, how it takes a second or two to respond to my every click. Also hate the amount of RAM it takes in comparison with WinAMP. And considering I’m in Malaysia and I’m not able to use iTMS, iTunes is practically useless to me.
Come to think about it, I should uninstall it now.
i_code_too_much: The best solution is to somehow convince the industry to support and use open audio/video streaming protocols.
Unless open audio/video streaming protocols somehow come with some sort of DRM sufficient to make blue-blooded executives happy, it’s unlikely.
i_code_too_much: There will be no way for anybody to compete, and we will all be paying royalties to MS forever…
I kinda prefer paying royalties to Microsoft than to MPEG-LA , considering it is cheaper..
Piers: Yes, Ogg Vorbis for audio and Divx for video.
DivX is neither free nor open (note that I’m talking about DivX not open source versions of it). And Ogg Vorbis wouldn’t make it big until there is some company making a DRM implementation for it – RIAA wouldn’t touch Ogg Vorbis without it. Personally, I hope someone commercialize FLAC, which is IMHO the best lossless format ever.
Unless open audio/video streaming protocols somehow come with some sort of DRM sufficient to make blue-blooded executives happy, it’s unlikely.
What on earth are you talking about? Pay TV services are doing pipe *and* content protection. How do you think VOD movies are protected on disk when they are shipped to remote POPs for playout? Even your Astro TV in Malaysia is doing this (albeit pipe only AFAIK) (I was on the system integration team for Astro, BTW). Running on MPEG2 — which is built by a standards body and technical steering committees. I should point out that encryption is provided by vendors using open (and closed) encryption systems which interface with the in-the-clear video streams, and the transport system has been designed to work in this way. Dozens of receiver vendors support these standards. And for competing proprietary encryption systems you have options such as simulcrypt, OCAP, and a host of others. I don’t think you can get more open than this.
I should also point out tha in the conditional access/encryption arena, most of the companies you have mentioned (including those with the big PC media player shares) are small players.
The proliferation of high quality content to the home is going to come from the top down, not the bottom up. By top down I mean the players that have been doing this for a long time, encrypting pay TV and other delivery mechanisms for the networks and studios — not the PC software vendors.
Try iTunes. Best audio player I have ever used by far. I haven’t used Quick Time much, but when I have I didn’t see anything that was that much better than Media Player. I could never go back to Media Player for music, though. Ever.
Ummmm, no. iTunes is a pig. The only reason I have it installed is to access the iTunes store and to play encrypted m4p files (which I can play without iTunes, but it still has to be installed because of the DRM, unless I convert them to another format).
“Windows should come with just the operating system.
What is “just the operating system”? Cause, two decades ago, a printer stack would be a third-party add-on, now most, if not all, major operating system comes with a printer stack with it. Some 2 decades ago, MS-DOS didn’t come with a network stack either, should that go too? What exactly is “just the operating system”? ”
What if Windows just came with the basics? What if MS was only interested in competing in the desktop operating system market and not the Office apps market, not the media players market, not the browser market, not Mouse market, etc. What if MS was content to simply own their 90 whatever % share of the desktop market? Is they’re marketshare threatened if WMP, IE, Office are not included with Windows? By what?
That’s essentially what we’re talking about here, right?
This is actually a reply to the first post but because everybody should know about the better alternative to the WMP, Real PLayer and Quicktime, Mplayer. It plays about anything, it’s opensource, and best of all it’s multiplatform:
mplayer source http://www.mplayerhq.hu/homepage/design6/news.html
mplayer for mac so x http://mplayerosx.sourceforge.net/
mplayer for windows http://www.mplayerhq.hu/MPlayer/releases/win32-beta/
Every major GNU/Linux distro has it in their package system.
I’d still like to know why a person can own a DVD-Rom and a DVD, and still have to pay Macrovision for the privilege of watching it.
Are you sure you guys aren’t referring to XviD (MP4 Codec), not DivX? XviD is an open source, DivX is not.
Well said. It is clear to me also, has been for years, but to the Government and the lawyers? Forget it. I used to think they are dumb, but that’s too simple an answer. It stinks, the whole thing about this monopoly stinks from end to end.
Did anyone mention MPlayer? With it I can play all of the MS formats plus many others. Windows media player can’t do that.
And, MPlayer is free. So what is the argument?
I occasionally use MPlayer on OSX. Its not a bad app, but I preffer VLC or Quicktime.
MPlayer is very ‘linix-y’ by that I mean the implementations and technologies used are great, but the overall polish and ease of use is unrefined. After using OSX for while now, I have gotten used to an efficient GUI and applications following suit. Anything that doesn’t have everything layout in a concise and logical way, sticks out like dogs balls.
But the MPlayer GUI is thankfully getting better. And as far as WMP is concerned, MPlayer runs rings around it.
Why not making only one player, which one you can add codec to able it to read .rm, .mov and all other things ?
(quite like the data translator in BeOS … the greatest idea i’ve never seen !)
WMP ? LOL !!! The worse sound i’ve never heard ! (certainly due of this rusty and poor equaliser).
iTunes ? Mouarf … taking twice ressources than Winamp 5 and can’t read video files. (and for a personnal view, i really think this brushed metal is ugly !) + some tasks keeping there after uninstalling it (iPodService.exe, …)
I personnaly use Winamp 5 for music and Divx Player for video. The only time i use wmp is when i need a playlist of videos.
Just the operating system ? Seems stupid but why not, a sort of a lite version, selled cheaper, but no one will buy it !!! And so do the same with Apple, tell them not to install Safari, iTunes and QuickTime by default … stupid no ? So why asking MS to do it ?
FireFox instead of IE ? Yes, i’m agree, i use FireFox on main browser since its name was Phoenix … but where is the Java Console for it ? Why MS Live Update is not working ? Where is the MSN Messenger link ? All those stuffs are working well in IE … so why the common user would get bored with a not 100% working browser ?
If you guys don’t want a ‘ready to use’ system after a 30 minutes installation, so just install Linux 5.1, and spend 4 hours of your time surfing on the web for all stuffs you want … but it’s not what i am looking for, and it’s the same for at least 60% of computer user i think …