For years, hope has ebbed and flowed among many in the computer business that Linux, a freely available computer operating system which uses a penguin as its symbol, would become a viable alternative to Microsoft’s Windows, the near universal standard for the world’s personal computers. The industry—excluding Microsoft and its founder Bill Gates, of course—is currently riding another wave of hope. Will disappointment follow?
More balls through Windows
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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More Of The Same.
*yawn*
Windows is already very broken outside of USA, specially in developing countries. Linux is the second platform on these countries, surpassing MacOS by a large margin. I hope that USA government doesn’t press these countries to help Microsoft.
As a consumer you should give thanks for OSS. If it weren’t for OSS putting some heat on MS/Apple, who knows just how passive MS/Apple’s development would get.
As long as OEM deals aren’t made, Linux will never really conquer the home desktop– Most people have never ever bought an OS in their lives, they just use what’s supplied with their PC (of course that’s buying an OS as wel, but you get my point).
So, as long as people buy HP/Compaq and Dell machines pre-installed with Windows, Linux will never gain serious foothold in the average home.
As always, just my opinion
____________________________________
–Dutch translator for SkyOS, v5.0–
In Russia even notebook vendors are shipping their own customized-to-the-hardware Linux distros now. That’s the answer about OEM. Linux driver programmers are high-paid in some Linux companies.
As for me, I think the fact that Linux is free is already good for a large number of home users and for the enterprise, too. People know less about Linux because of lack of education on this topic and because of previous Windows dominance. If efforts are put into education from schools, I think Linux will be popular. I still remember how I was taught Unix in the University. I didn’t see Windows in those days. Only DOS 🙂
It can still be a nightmare for home users to install… Worse, there are still too few applications… Software to manage personal finances or organise digital photos is also missing. In theory these programs could all be written but, without a huge increase in users, code-writers will not bother.
I don’t get this comment in the article. My wife (who is no where near a computer geek) has installed Linux. Granted, that was where Linux (MDK) was the only OS on the machine, but its still easy.
And the bit about personal finance software makes no sense. What about GNUCash? A new finance manager written in Mono was just released.
And managing photos? Hello… GThumb? A great little tool. Besides, do you really need a program who’s sole job is managing pictures? Just use the file manager. A few years back (when I was much less expereineced), my life was made much easier when someone pointed out to me that I could just use the file manager to organize my pictures.
Where did this guy get his info from?
Windoze is a old OS it was never meant to be net work OS. People are finally realizing that. I dont think there is any innovation left in M$. M$ has copied all innovation from others and killed those companies now it is time for windoze to phase out.
I suggest using slightly fresher bait and making some attempt to conceal the hook.
“So, as long as people buy HP/Compaq and Dell machines pre-installed with Windows, Linux will never gain serious foothold in the average home. ”
Definitely, that’s why I’m buying one of these:
http://h71016.www7.hp.com/dstore/MiddleFrame.asp?page=config&Produc…
I love Linux and am reassured. Linux will continue to come up from the bottom: in the short term, Cash registers, call centers, but in the long term, … It continues to look like Linux may be a true disruptive technology. It will be good for the world.
“It can still be a nightmare for home users to install…”
I agree with you. They shouldn’t write FUD like that especially when it is simply not true. Otherwise the article is not far off.
I’m writing this from Fedora dev fully updated as of right now. It includes KDE-3.2.2 which is not released yet. I can see that Javascript in Konqueror is the same old – the article as well as John Toomey’s link took too long to load unless I turned off Javascript – the latter then displaying nothing. And for some reason Fedora is still excluding ksvg. On the other hand drag-n-drop from one Konqueror window to another came back.
The home user could install Xandros or Lindows with a whole lot less trouble than Windows. Linux has been slowly gaining momentum for some time; in the next 2 years it will start to snowball rapidly thanks to the vast library of free software until critical mass is achieved. At that pont if MS stumbles once, and they will, it’s over.
You need to answer the simple question of WHY? Why would someone install anything other than Windows, when Windows works just fine for them? The answer in a nutshell is they won’t.
There is zero motivation for the bulk of the desktop market to change their OS. Hell, for that matter most of the desktop market has never heard of Linux, and couldn’t careless about what OS they are running. Some couldn’t even tell you Windows IS their OS. All they know is they can check their email, pay their bills online, and download a photo of Janet Jacksons boob and email it to all their friends. You need to consider just how untechnical most computer users really are.
If you looking for a snowball effect here…. keep dreaming.
Where did this guy get his info from?
Something that you find easy to use might not be for another one.
As a consumer you should give thanks for OSS. If it weren’t for OSS putting some heat on MS/Apple, who knows just how passive MS/Apple’s development would get.
Oh really? Well, please enlight me and tell me how OSS is putting pressure on them. Microsoft might spread FUD on it but it didn’t really changed their schedule. Shared Source Initiative? Bah. It isn’t like “Look, don’t touch” accelerated the development of their OS.
I get so bored and mildly annoyed by such articles that there isn’t very much to say, really.
I am a (very) happy Suse user, and honestly I don’t see the problems that this guy mentions.
Linux difficult to install? Try to install Windows without drivers and Lindows, and let’s see what is more difficult.
And what about the growing number of PCs with linux preinstalled?
Lack of application? I haven’t noticed it.
Only 1 percent of games working in linux? He means (expensive) Windows games of course.
And what about the constant maintance that Windows needs, the security issues (becoming more serious all the time), apps phoning home, activations, 20 digits serial numbers…
Yawn..
I have used Linux for about three years and the biggest difference I have noticed between Windows and Linux is the speed of development. This guy talks about Linux maybe having 10% of the market on the desktop by the end of the decade. Considering the difference between the Windows and Linux now, I can see his point. But he can’t be considering the speed of development going on with all these Linux volunteers. If Linux continues to develop at this speed, and Windows continues to be Windows, then I don’t believe 10% is accurate at all.
The first time I tried Linux was Mandrake 7.x, then Suse 7.3, and now I am blown away by the differences, mainly in the GUI’s, of all the distros coming out lately. As far as installation, I just did the latest Mepis distro, and it even configured my scanner, printer, monitor, and every piece of hardware I have without a glitch before I even did the first reboot. It installs Flash, Realplayer, and a lot of other plugins for Mozilla without even a second thought. It all just worked. That is a first for me, and I have install dozens of different Distros and various versions of each. Mepis slammed it down with the 2.6.4 kernel, KDE 3.2.1, Gimp 2.0, OpenOffice 1.1.1, and, heck, K3b had my CD burner pegged and ready before I even thought of it once. What more could you ask for? Oh, and Mepis is also a live CD. With distros like that coming out, almost daily now, what installation issues is this guy talking about? And Mepis gave me big-time choices including keeping all my partition without blowing away the data. It was great for a guy like me who keeps a couple of extra partitions around for personal data storage while constantly trying different distros.
You can’t just do a single install of one distro, play with it for a while, and then launch into some Linux having no chance other than the server spiel. For this guy to state that Microsoft has nothing to worry about is a mighty foolish statement, and to believe Microsoft isn’t going to need to compete is not true. You can’t sleep at the wheel and expect not to run off the “Road Ahead,” Bill.
“You need to answer the simple question of WHY? Why would someone install anything other than Windows, when Windows works just fine for them?”
My thought exactaly. I dont understand the logic that users will just switch over if someone introduces them to Linux. I gave a buddy of mine my Mandrake CDs and let he experimented with Linux for a few months. In the end, he just uninstalled it to make more room for his Windows stuff. Why? Because Windows does everything he needs it to do! Its been stable, easy to use, and runs everything he needs. I know several other users as well in the same boat. I will leave them be with running Windows. IMO, its silly to think that people will just switch to Linux upon trying it. I can almost relate it to some religious people who try to push their religion onto you when you were just fine without it…
The real problem for starters is those who use windows and it works for them, have lik an fanatic way to tell people that windows is the thing. Just because something works for you, it doesn’t mean it works for someone else, does it?
And they who complain the most about other OS’ then windows are those who play games all day and/or are too lazy to take time to read how you install flash or java in mozilla on linux. We could actually make os/2 warp 4.0 able to run the newest games and software and peopl would for sute rush over there. As long as it works, most non-techie users will just use anything.
Thanks to windows people are getting more and more lazy. Most people don’t know what DOS is, and it’s not that old. People just want to push one butten, and the computer starts up, boots up their favourite OS, starts their webbrowser and goes to their favourite pages, starts their e-mail client and downloads mail, reads it, answers for that person. And even then starts up MSN or Yahoo and talks with his/her friends for that person. And even starts a game and plays it for you. THATS what is been happening to people.
It sickens me when people freak out, like they allmost getting a psychoticbreak when you tell them for example: “Open a terminal window(in linux), and go to where you downloaded the rpm package, write, rpm -iv name.rpm, and it’s doen, unless you ned to install a few more packages that it might ask for.”.
People are maybe waiting to be able to insert a learning chip behind their ear. So in few seconds they are a linux-guru.
And yes, just look at the trend. Linux is getting more and more known by people. More and more are willing to try it and even using it over windows and mac. I’ve been using many different OS’, so to those who don’t have that much experience else then looking at it for 5min after installing it, don’t bother. There is a reason why MS is fearing Linux. They don’t try to runover Linux for nothing. Give it an extra thought, or are YOU getting too lazy?
Your making far too many assumptions…. You are assuming people have a NEED to change. You are assuming they want to change. You are assuming they will change. You are assuming everyone NEEDS to run something other than Windows.
Until such time there is a NEED to change, damn few are going to change anything. At the present time there is absolutely no NEED for nearly anyone running Windows to change anything. That is not likely to change for many years, IF ever. The only hope for Linux is offering something INCREDIBLE that Windows does not. and it better be a damn HUGE something…….
And yes, people need to change, their attitude. And that is the only thing I demand they change. If they want to change their OS, it’s because THEY want to.
I maybe came on a bit strong, but the attitude people have. That if I use windows, and windows works for me, then everything else i obsolete. It’s that attitude that is wrong. What works for you works for you, but accept that something other then windows works for someone else.
The most usuall question I get when I tell people I use Linux as my main Desktop OS is: “How do you play games?”. People have a way of thinking, if they like BBQ saus on their chicken, everyone does. But that’s an attitude I find mostly with gamers and fanatic users.
It’s not that everyone shuld go over to Linux, but that people know that they have other choices then windows. If you just take 10min out of your life, people will learn that the computer world for sure isn’t made by MS. People should look at and know about their alternatives, not blindly accepting everything MS says and makes.
I can’t believe my eyes: “there is no need for anybody running Windows to change”.
So you are happy with:
1) single programs which can cost up to 60 times a beautiful, very complete OS like Suse Pro
2) An OS (Windows) which needs constant maintenance.
3) Non existing privacy(ie apps phoning home all the time)
4) Security which has become a nightmare
5) Activations, registrations, 25 figures serials…
6) Being treated as an idiot
And freedom, of course, counts for nothing.
Well, if you are happy…
I have made my choice.
Why would the US government pressure these governments. Microsoft does a great job at that, but giving them free software. Because if you think about it, Microsoft doesn’t loose any money but the cost of a pressed CD when they give the Windows to these countries. Financially they are not going to be any better off, but from a market stand point they have gained ground.
“And yes, people need to change, their attitude.”
Whats so bad about “never touch a runing system”?
Don’t you think that Linux has more popularity day by day because of the weakneses in Windows itself, but beware about Longhorn. In what i heard before, the Longhorn is the Linux killer. Thats why Microsoft have pulled out all of the resources and money that microsoft have to develop Longhorn in the first place. Longhorn is design to attract developers and normal users to feels like a dream land, but in the same time Linux follow from behind what ms windows have done in the way of ease of use and interface to attract more users.
What do you mean by, “never touch a runing system”?
From what I’ve heard, Longhorn will have some real killer system reqs. And not everyone wants to upgrade their computer, again, and again, and again.
Before we used to upgrade our computers because some extra RAM or HDD would be nice, but now we upgrade because our computer become almost obsolete because OS’ are getting hardware hungry.
I can understand that games and software for media will requiere more boost in your computer, but when your OS does that, it’s becomming a bit overkill.
‘Thanks to windows people are getting more and more lazy.’
Yes, I can’t understand those stupid lazy idiots who just want their computer to work, without loads of hassle and wasted time. It’s shocking how many people would rather use their computer to run applications than spend all day messing with the comand line and config files. What’s their problem?
That’s strange. I’ve just installed Fedora Core 1, and it was ready to go right away? What took extra time was installing software and libs that I personally wanted.
I didn’t have to mess around with installing ServicePacks or drivers that are not included with the Windows of your choice.
And before you make false assumptions, get the facts right.
You don’t have to fiddle around in the commandline if you don’t want to, but it’s faster though.
But to answer your question: “What’s their problem?”.
As I said, they are lazy. They think everything, and I mean everything, is don by ONE click. By all means, if windows works for you, use it, but know what you critisize first.
“Yes, I can’t understand those stupid lazy idiots who just want their computer to work, without loads of hassle and wasted time. It’s shocking how many people would rather use their computer to run applications than spend all day messing with the comand line and config files. What’s their problem?”
Um, I can guarantee that this is not the case with a significant portion of Windows users. Which is why Linux is on the map to begin with.
Um, I can guarantee that this is not the case with a significant portion of Windows users. Which is why Linux is on the map to begin with.
Oh you mean roughly 3% of desktop computer users in the world ?
Yah thats significant alright!
As I said, they are lazy. They think everything, and I mean everything, is don by ONE click
Well when the majority of everything on Windows IS done by one click why the hell would you want to screw around with a commandline on another OS !??
Linux is like a glorified version of DOS to most windows users and most of us quit using DOS long ago for a reason.
” Oh you mean roughly 3% of desktop computer users in the world ?
Yah thats significant alright!
;)”
Far more than 3% of Windows users have some kind of problem with Windows, problems enough to consider using something else. Everyone I know that uses Windows always has some kind of problem that keeps them from using the applications productively. Just because it works perfectly for you doesn’t mean it works perfectly for everyone else.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t *nix shell come before DOS?
And what is the reason you quit using DOS?
“Far more than 3% of Windows users have some kind of problem with Windows, problems enough to consider using something else. Everyone I know that uses Windows always has some kind of problem that keeps them from using the applications productively. Just because it works perfectly for you doesn’t mean it works perfectly for everyone else.”
Of course far more than 3% having problems with Windows. A LOT more than 3%. No doubt about it.
Consider for one second Linux has as many desktop users as Windows currently does. Think the number of users having problems would be considerably different? The types of problems might change, but the number having problems isn’t likely to get any better.
You make it sound like Linux based OS’s are the cure for all desktop computing issues. That would be far from the truth. Different OS, different set of issues. Regardless of the OS users are always going to have, and create problems.
Bill Gates grew up in the 70s during the hacker ethos, and Linux is a continuation of that ethos.
Bill Gates is now the riches man and has more money than he can ever spend in a lifetime.
so what motivates him to want to crush linux rather than at least allow for competition?
” Of course far more than 3% having problems with Windows. A LOT more than 3%. No doubt about it.
Consider for one second Linux has as many desktop users as Windows currently does. Think the number of users having problems would be considerably different? The types of problems might change, but the number having problems isn’t likely to get any better.
You make it sound like Linux based OS’s are the cure for all desktop computing issues. That would be far from the truth. Different OS, different set of issues. Regardless of the OS users are always going to have, and create problems.”
I never said, nor do I think, that Linux (or anything else) is the cure all for all desktop computing issues. I actually agree that there will always be computer problems regardless of OS. My only point was that Windows does not “just work” out of the box any more than any other OS. And problems aren’t always easy to solve.
The real cure for every OS would that users would demand more of themselves and took more time to know what they are using. Instead of crying and getting a panic when their printer don’t work, and the problem is that they need to get a new ink cartridge.
We need to get people to like to learn computers again. Sorry, a computer isn’t a simple tool like a screwdriver. It’s something you need to learn to use.
Great title for an article guy. Sure it will dissappiont, all the next version mean is security updates, MS trying to control what you do with your system, & them dumbing stuff down. Have you guys seen the Longhorn GUI looks like they are taking XP’s playschool theme further. Plus the fact they are wanting windows to do everything for you. Why does MS think windows users are a bunce of idiots?
Well said.
I would be offended to use a product where the maker thinks the users are all idiots. But it seems most users take it as a compliment. ;p
Back in the late 80’s and early 90’s I ran a rather popular bulletin board service.(bbs) At that point many if not most of the users logged in from a totally DOS based system. I considered most of the users less than savy in the operation of their DOS systems.
I was wrong, they were savy. They were after all doing all of their computing from a command line interface, without plug and play, and without anything close to a friendly environment to work with. Most of these people shared one common goal; they were willing to LEARN. They had no other choice. Either you learned DOS, or you just avoided computers all together. Users of OS/2 and Win 3.x still were DOS literate. (required)
Windows 95 and the Internet changed both of those in someways. While it allowed many access to the world of computing without regard for a learning curve, it also took away the need to actually learn a non-gui OS. (not good)
It’s pretty amazing to watch many of todays so called computer professionals fumble with simple DOS syntax and avoid the command line like the plague; but it’s the the way they were taught.Point and click or the next generation of it, is here to stay. There is no going back.
If you can’t get so called computer pro’s, and instructors to type at the command line, you don’t stand much of a chance with home desktop users.
>I can’t believe my eyes: “there is no need for anybody running Windows to change”.
The guy was right. Yes, if we were all running Linux by some miracle, there would be no need to switch to Windows. People run Windows- they see no reason to switch to Linux.
Both systems are very similar, and getting more and more similar by every day.
How about your reasons? Here:
>1) single programs which can cost up to 60 times a beautiful, very complete OS like Suse Pro
Not sure what are you talking about, but most people buy OS with a computer ($55) once every 4 years, bug fixes and patches included.
From the other side, not all Linuxes are equal, some will cost you $0 but other will want you to pay $50-$300 a year for the priviledge of having bug fixes and patches delivered to you.
So, cost gives clear winner here.
>2) An OS (Windows) which needs constant maintenance.
I am sure guys in Stanford running Linux and Solaris thought that their systems were inherently more secure, no vigilant maintenance required. They learned their lesson.
Funny enough, maintenance is the same for both Windows and Linux: firewall, anti-virus or software integrity checker, regular patching.
No reason to switch.
>3) Non existing privacy(ie apps phoning home all the time)
% telnet http://www.osnews.com 80
Will it work from Linux prompt? Sure will. Here, you have an application under Linux phoning “home.”
Case closed- unless, of course, software developers for Linux are a special breed of inherently more honest people who would never dream to spice their apps with spyware.
>4) Security which has become a nightmare
SELinux or not SELinux? Run as root or not as root? Give some app root password when it asks for it during installation- or not? Is is rootkit consuming my CPU or just normal system behaviour? Is that Web site offering a patch is legit or fake?
No, Linux is worry free. (end of sarcasm).
>5) Activations, registrations, 25 figures serials…
But at least they don’t ask you for your email address or credit card number to allow you download bug fixes…
Besides, just bought two computers for my friends, was not asked for any serials. Put second network card- nope, no luck, no registration. Installed few third-party applications- where the heck is Windows activation???
I must be missing something there.
At least, and I must to give you credit for that, you didn’t say people are suffering because they don’t know how to remove Notepad integrated into OS.
>6) Being treated as an idiot
Being treated as an idiot – when you complain in Linux newsgroup you can’t set up a shared printer- unless your name is Eric.
>And freedom, of course, counts for nothing.
It is just a piece of office equipment, not a religion.
My ass more free in a chair from ChairMaster than from TreeCutter, because I can assembly/disassembly Chairmaster chair and because I bough it in IKEA.
That sounds stupid, is not it? Because it is! Freedom my ass…
>Well, if you are happy…
People are satisfied with what they have. They see no reason to drop everything just because of THE NEXT BEST THING.
C++ developers still exist- they didn’t abandon C++ when Java came and was THE NEXT BEST THING. Developers, who are usually more computer literate.
Now, you expect computer illiterate people to jump Windows because Linux is where more freedom is??? You must be kidding yourself.
Give better reasons. A killer application, perhaps, that can not be written for Windows because of inherent Windows OS issues comparing to inherently better Linux OS design.
>I have made my choice.
They made their. It is called freedom.
“So, cost gives clear winner here”- read “So, cost gives NO clear winner here”
So a bit more
1)Cost: you forgot that Windows comes “naked”. When I was still using it, I had to buy quite a few apps, and so do most.
As to linux, the only one you pay $50 a year is Lindows. You don’t pay for bug fixes, though, you can download every new OS release (about once a month) and all the apps. Basically you pay a small amount for a good service. You don’t have to run Lindows. I don’t know who charges you $300 a year, unless you are talking about business users.
2)Maintenance: apart from security, I was talking about cleaning redundant files, cleaning the registry, defragmenting…It must be done almost daily
3)No privacy: my firewall alerted me every 5 seconds about apps which wanted to phone home.
Apps which phone home in linux? Not aware. And for what purpose?
4) Security: thanks for your sarcastic remarks: no I wouldn’t use SELinux, except for playing with it. And if you want to know I run as root all the time. Never had a single problem. I can leave my computer switched on all the day, with no worry in the world
5) Activations and so on: of course if you install everything only once in a lifetime… I still use a proprietary Boot Manager, and every time I want to reinstall it (very often) I have to type a combination of 25 figures and letters. One day I’ll get rid of it.
6)Being treated as an idiot: no, bashing newbies at linux forums is not fashionable, believe it or not.
And finally freedom. I suggest you have a look at this article: http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=6710
But I know, many human beings would be quite happy to live under a dictatorship…
I dont know where you got your facts at Alexander. First off, Microsoft averaged $140 for each license of Windows it sold to OEM’s in 1996. Thats how it has made billions. I got Fedora for free. While it is true that all OS’s need patching from time to time, Windows is rediculous. I work at a university. It is impossible to install Windows without being behind a firewall. Otherwise you get infected. The machine will get a worm before the OS finishes installing. Why? Because someone at Microsoft wasnt smart enough to realize that you shouldn’t turn on the network stack during installation before the user can start or install a firewall. As for privacy, I see cases all the time where spyware has crippled a Windows PC. I have yet to find a Linus box like this. I had one user who had over 10,000 spyware instances on one machine. NEedless to say that machine crawled. Security is not OS based, its people based. As long as idiots continue to use computers, they will allow their computer to become compromised. However, most idiots use Windows, thankfully. I have only used one LInux program that required activation. Almost every Windows program has to be registered with a key of some kind. And the biggest problem with Windows is that Windows was not designed from the ground up for network use, Linux was.
Resource:
http://news.com.com/2100-1016-5173992.html
Sorry Alexander. I meant Russian Guy in the email above. Got the name wrong.
Indeed, I realized that 🙂
Good post anyway.
All this rhetoric is why a lot of people turn off when Linux true-believers start their ranting. What are we talking about? A clone of a clone of a 30-year old OS (unix->minix->Linux). Real avant-garde and futuristic there! I cut my teeth on *nix in the 70’s but I moved on. Tried the MacOS but hated the Apple-tax. Thought BeOS had the stuff and hated to see it die. I hated Windows on DOS and was happy to see that go. Took RH and Suse and Caldera Linux for a spin at various times in the last few years but after working all day with computers I want to be a “user” at home not spending all my time inside config files and reading man pages.
Every year for the past five years it’s been “Linux is so much better now – Windoze is dead!” or some variant and every year ends with MS with +/- 90% of the desktop market and gaining share in the server market. And I see the same anecdotal stories repeated time and again about how Windoze locks up/reboots/blue screens/too easy/too hard. Some facts from my real world: I’m sitting in the midst of four XP Pro machines – three have been running with no interruption for over two years and the fourth is a new acquisition to replace an ailing 400MHz box. Some of the comments in this thread think that keeping up with configuring and updating Windows is too much trouble – compared to what? Pouring over man pages and how-tos and endlessly searching the Web to figure out how to configure some peripheral? And to those worried about privacy issues with product activation, you run a greater risk when you hand your MasterCard over to that pimply-faced punk at the pizzeria. And only pay cash at the grocery store (and don’t use those cool discount cards).
My development box at work has been running XP Pro since Jan. of 2003 (as have the other 5 developers with whom I work) with no OS issues. In March of last year I put up a Windows 2000 AS cluster to support SQL Server 2000 EE and about 500 users. We have had no downtime since the system came online. Contrast this to our RH AS cluster servers that have been up and down like a yo-yo for the last year-and-a-half. Our IS management even enbarked on a “Linux stabilization project” which lately has consisted of breaking the clusters apart into individual servers. And before anyone starts in about our sysadmins, I should point out that we paid big bucks for RH engineers to configure these boxes.
So have I drunk deeply of the MS Kool-Aid? Maybe, but I have at least put in a lot of time with enough OSes that I think I have a certain amount of perspective. And one thing I do know – there are a lot of self-deluded zealots out there who think Linux is the Grail and see it as their mission to force people to see it their way. They do the greatest disservice to the hard work of the people who see Linux for what it is – a good solid OS worthy of praise – but not worship.
See? This is the kind of stuff that makes most people I know who might even consider Linux to turn their backs. First to your assertion that Microsoft averaged $140 for each license of Windows it sold to OEMs. That is NOT what the article said.
“‘In FY96, nearly 50 million PCs were purchased and Microsoft averaged about $140 in software revenue per PC or $7 billion…I don’t really see our business as being significantly more difficult to understand than the other great businesses you’ve invested in.'”
In fact the article addresses both Windows and Office, but MS makes and sells many software packages for Windows. The price charged to an OEM is not referenced in the article.
Add to this your obvious contempt for anyone not as smart as you (you called us “idiots” I think). Fine. I’ll be an idiot and you can be some self-impressed Penguinista who thinks he has it all figured out.
It appears that you seem to have confused software registration with product activation. Registration has been around since the dawn of PC software and I won’t even recount for you what was wrong about the various copy-protection schemes for old DOS based packages. I had issues with activation until I realized that privacy is pretty much a myth if you work, go to the doctor or shop. If you live in the real world then you’re monitored on the highways and in shopping center parking lots (sky-cams), your purchases and bank activity are monitored and your credit history is pretty much an open book. Your medical history is aggregated in a database for use by the insurance agencies. And you have more of a chance of having your credit-card number stolen by the clerk at Blockbuster than you do over a secure Web site. It’s a good buzz-word for journalists (and fear-mongers) but unless you live in a cabin, pay cash for everything and are independantly wealthy (not to mention exceedingly healthy) then privacy is out the window (no pun intended).
Finally, your statement about Windows and networking ceased to be true about the time that Windows NT was released.
Self-confessed Windows “idiot” signing off…
We self-deluded linux zealots are worried, and for a good reason: computers and operating systems are not comparable to “a chair”
We have seen what can happen when they stop working.
Orwell’s Big Brother might be a very old cliche, but like it or not it is always around the corner.
So the question of who controls them should be in anybody’s interest, not just of “linux zealots”
However, most idiots use Windows
So do you think who ever use Linux is smart or brilliant?. To me you are the one that idiots and sucks. I think average windows users is far more clever than you. 95% VS 3%, do you think that 95% of desktop users is full of idiots and 3% is the smart users? you must be kidding right
. I think the 3% is the right answer of what u r saying.
OK, using logic:
Using Windows does not imply the user is an idiot but it is true that if user is idiot it implies that it is using windows…
Windows is as insecure (target of 99.99% of worms and viruses of the world and activated automatically if you are using Outlook), expensive (specially if you think that it comes with only very very basic applications and you have to buy many commercial applications to make your computer usefull), projected for dumb and lazy users (who are so lazzy and ignorant that they never use windows update), made by an american (it is significant if you are not american) and monopolistic company.
Windows NT are nor NEW. Its ideas was stolen from Digital’s VMS, which was Unix comtemporany.
“Windows NT are nor NEW. Its ideas was stolen from Digital’s VMS, which was Unix comtemporany”
Well you are sort of correct on that one:
http://www.winnetmag.com/Article/ArticleID/4494/4494.html
Personally, after reading this article. I’m not entirely sure I would use the term “stolen”, but borrowed might be somewhat of an understatement. Certainly written by the same hand.
I have been using Windows since 3.11. I have found my favorite was win95, but at the moment I use win98. It does the job for me and it does not crash unless I really try to find a way to do so.
I have also used many flavors of Linux, most have had huge problems with USB support which is strange seeing as they are supposed to be a modern os?
I would say that from a windows user perspective, that you should be able to have an os that is easy to use, easy for programs to be installed, and just work.
Windows does this very well, otherwise it would never have been as popular as it is, whether it came bundled with your machine or not.
Linux installs after a fashion, you need to have a properly packaged rpm, of deb file to make it work. Unfortunately for Linux it does not install the majority of software properly. Many computer users use the machine to dostuff like web, writing, gaming etc, they do not wish to read a huge manual to get the os to work, this is why windows and the mac win over the linux os.
I also find it strange that when asking questions in linux groups i get smarmy no-it-alls, who delight in belittling a newbie, i do not find this with windows and mac users.
I would imagine a lot of the linux users out there take a great pride in smashing the system, being against the grain, following their hacker ethic clique, and deluding themselves that they are smacking authority man, type attitudes.
Here’s the truth, you cannot deal with those who wish to use an os that you do not agree with. You have to attack, you hope your religous fervor will convert the heathens into struggling with an os that will never convert the masses until it is as easy to use as windows and mac.
Thank for the article’s link !
I think that nowadays linux, Unix and NT have almost all the same features but it is necessary to remember that:
a) Windows NT is not a true standard. It is a commercial and closed product from a single company, MS. MS dictates price, obsolescence time and made proposital incompatibilities to difficult move for another platforms and to justify the need of buy a new windows version.
b) Windows is not as modular as Unix or linux. You have to use GUI and all the bloatware contained in the product.
c) Unix is still prefered by scientists, senior engineers and companies to do vital tasks (like banks to run big databases). Windows is prefered by medium and small companies because it is cheaper and easy to have windows admins and because these servers will be used for non-vital tasks. Linux is prefered by smart and non-lazzy admins to replace windows (ans some Unix) servers spending no money.
d) Unix was used to high graphical workstations in 80’s. There are no technical or economic reason why linux/pcs cannot be used as workstations or desktops, except lack of some commercial application offer on some areas. If all commercial applications were offered in Windows, Unix, MacOS X and Linux versions I have no doubt that Windows would be last in opertating system market share.
Thanks, I don’t see why people still use window, the security holes are just to much. I know no OS can be perfect, but sh*t MS stop dumbing windows down & making it the “do everything OS” & think about security. God, MS has billions & we have probaly the holiest OS ever from a gaint company like MS. Look at linux distroes, all more secure then windows, without billions to back them. One more thing why does windows have none necesary services turned on by defualt, & the network serviced on on install?
….that any time flaws are pointed out in Windows, there are those that come on and refer to those people as “Linux zealots” and bash them almost instantly? Also, it seems any time someone wants to criticize Linux (which is fine, it’s not a perfect OS), they refer to issues that have been fixed years ago and not current issues?
Example #1
“You have to read a bunch of man pages and edit config files by hand and use cryptic command line commands to have a barely functional system”
This is probably the case for Slackware or Red Hat, but distros like Mandrake, Linspire, Xandros, etc. do all of this for you, with graphical wizards to help you with configuration. You don’t ever have to touch a config file or a command line if you don’t want to.
Example #2
“Program installation is a pain because you have to get all the dependencies”
True to an extent. At this time, I wish there was a better way to install software in Linux, however, as it is now, it’s not as hard as some people make it out to be. Mandrake, for example, uses their own dependency resolution tool to resolve dependencies. If you want to install a piece of software, Mandrake will automatically download all dependencies that the program requires. This might be a bit of a pain if you have a dial-up connection, but at least you’ll get all the dependencies at once and not have to get each one individually.
Personally, what I would like to see is an automated way to compile software from source (and, in effect also fetch any dependencies that might be needed to compile said software) that doesn’t require command line tinkering. Now, a normal user wouldn’t ever have to, but sometimes you might want to in order to get a feature that isn’t compiled in by default.
Example #3
“Hardware support is terrible/sub-par/pick your own adjective here”
Depends on the hardware you use. As it is now, most hardware should work, but as the Linux user base grows, hardware support will become better.
Example #4
“Windows has +- 90% of the desktop market now, therefore, they will have that until the end of time”
As technology moves forward and becomes more advanced, things change. Just because Windows has 90%+ of the desktop market now, doesn’t mean they will have that much in the future (or even a majority, for that matter). Any change in technology takes time. If Linux does overtake Windows, it will not happen overnight, or even by the end of this year. So don’t assume that Linux has lost the battle before the battle is over. Ultimately, the best desktop system will win out, regardless of what it is.
First, I didnt say all windows users were idiots. I said most idiots use Windows. The problem is people dont know enough or care enough to keep their system secure. Since Linux tends to have a higher learning curve, fewer average joes off the street use it. Microsoft cant keep putting out products assuming everyone has a degree in computer science and knows how to keep their computer from getting compromised. As for the price, besides the OS and Office, what other MS app comes with every computer? So I would guess that most of that $140 average cost went towards the OS. And I am not a Linux zealot. I just get tired of all the crap Microsoft pulls. I run Linux at work because I can be relatively sure it won’t get infected by a worm. Who is their right mind thought it was a good idea to give your email program admin privlages to the entire system? As for activation, registration, and privacy…. its a lot harder to hide things in open source software than in proprietary software. If I buy an app, why should it matter what I do to my computer afterwards. I paid for the app after all. Why should they be allowed to keep me from using something I paid for. I think Windows has done a lot for computing. But considering all the money the world has pumped into MS over the last 2 decades, I’d say the owe us a better OS than what we currently have.
But considering all the money the world has pumped into MS over the last 2 decades, I’d say they owe us a better OS than what we currently have.
Just wait for Longhorn.
Just remember folks with or without your babble and craps about how Micrsoft sucks, being monopoly, Linux is better than others, idiots or other pieace of crap, the fact is Microsoft still won the battle. Because majority of the people knows which one is better for their every day life and only a few moron prefer the hard way to solve the problems that does not necessarily to be a problem at all.
For Linux zealots, would you prefer a car that ease of use and have all the automatic function that can save your time to be from one place to another place rather than used the old car that have powerfull engine but hard to use and no automatic function at all. Of course most of the people like automatic one because it can save time and help alot.
Brilliant deduction…..
There never was, is, or is going to be a battle. The Linux community has prepared for a battle with nobody other than themselves. The rest of the world could largely less give a damn. It’s a religous thing for them, most of the rest of us simply watch, snicker, and chuckle once or twice per thread. (not all of us are not using horribly broken Windows systems, I can make many run just fine)
Some are actually arrogant enough to claim anyone who doesn’t see it “their” way to be an idiot.(see posts above)
Every year since 96′ or whatever has been the “year Linux takes the desktop”. It’s the same sad song, different verse. Doesn’t matter who is telling the story, the market share is within reason of where it was ten years ago. (swap linux for unix)
Microsoft was at the right place, at the right time, with the right product. Lots of luck to anyone believing they can do the same. It was a once in a century fluke that has them where they are, and without a doubt will keep them there.
Wish, dream, or pray: ten years from now the market share will look more or less exactly the same as it does today.
So you can see 10 years ahead into the future.
Do you believe that the world, of computers or otherwise, 10 years ago looked the same as it does now?
That is what “conservatives” of any kind always hope, but they get always badly disappointed.
10 years into the future the world might have changed beyond your wildest dreams (or nightmares)
Just because Microsoft is on top now, doesn’t mean they’ll stay there all eternity. (this, however, doesn’t mean Linux will take its place, either)
Sure, there have been multiple “Years of the Linux Desktop”. (For the record, Linux has only been in the mass market since 1998.) However, nobody actually believes Linux will overtake Windows this year (or even the next 5-10). But that doesn’t mean it will never happen. But each year, Linux has seen growth, and it grows more and more each year. You can’t ignore that more and more people are becoming aware of Linux and are at least curious, likewise, more and more people are becoming aware of Microsoft’s business tactics and are turned off by them. Microsoft didn’t get to where they are overnight, neither will Linux.
This is not intended to be a flame or a ranting of a Linux zealot, just calling it as I see it.
Too many zealots on both sides. =/
I personally use both Windows and Linux (I do love my video games).
I like Windows because I don’t have to fiddle around with it, and as long as I use automatic updates, I’m good and secure. It’s nice to come home from a day of school and be able to sit down and not worry about spending all night fixing/upgrading something.
With Linux, I truly enjoy the power that the CLI gives me, and the stability it gives me, especially for running my LAMP server. I also love how I can customize it to fix my needs.
Yet I do not use Linux on my main computer anymore. Why?
Because I honestly don’t see a reason to use it on my main computer. I have everything I want and need on my Windows XP Pro machine that I could ever use, and having linux would be a waste of time and space on it. (A 80gig HDD just doesn’t go very far when you collect anime/manga)
When I have alot of free time, I use linux on my spare AMD Thunderbird machine, or my 600mhz HP machine. But on my main system, I just want to be able to watch a movie, play a game, listen to some music, and not have to worry about the many issues I still come across during regular linux use.