Home > 3D News, GL, DirectX > Directfb 3D Window ManagementDirectfb 3D Window Management David Adams 2004-05-28 3D News, GL, DirectX 37 CommentsThere’s a new screenshot over at directfb.org that shows the new TextureTriangles() method using existing windows as the texture. Every change in the original window is immediately visible in the transformed presentation. About The Author David AdamsFollow me on Twitter @david_adams 37 Comments 2004-05-28 3:44 pm WOW, is that GNOME? looks even great. 2004-05-28 3:49 pm If only ati and nvidia had framebuffer accelerated drivers !oh god, we would all praise directfbDo you know that directfb is even working on a directx=>opengl wrapper? 2004-05-28 3:50 pm cant see a thing 2004-05-28 3:53 pm Seems like all the screenshot thumbnails are 1×1 pixels on IE. At least my version 6.0.something. 2004-05-28 3:56 pm “Seems like all the screenshot thumbnails are 1×1 pixels on IE. At least my version 6.0.something.”ie uses non standard css. use something like firefox 2004-05-28 4:31 pm Sadly, konqueror does the same thing. 2004-05-28 4:32 pm It’s kinda cool, but it seems to only do whole window effect. Notice the transparent terminals? The text is also transparent. With something like Kieth P. xserver you could make only the background of a terminal transparent while keeping the text solid. This kind of control is needed to make transparency at all usefull.However, I guess expose like functionality could be implemented using this, which is nice. 2004-05-28 4:40 pm DirectFB is *the* thing everyone would use, *IF* they had ATI/nVidia full support.Unfortunately they don’t and it’s very hard as we all known, since drivers are closed source.DirectFB exists since a while and always allowed true/full alpha blending, among other things. And yeah, directly being on the frame buffer, that’s another really cool thing. 2004-05-28 4:58 pm That’s pretty cool. 2004-05-28 5:01 pm But when are we going to have this integrated nicely with an X server and a windowmanager in a nice standarized package that normal people can enjoy? ……… 2004-05-28 5:16 pm But when are we going to have this integrated nicely with an X server and a windowmanager in a nice standarized package that normal people can enjoy?I’m quite sure that it’s coming, but it’s unfortunately one of those things that we’re going to have to wait for. My best guess is that everyone will be pretty much on equal footing by the time that Longhorn is released. Linux, the BSDs, Mac OS and Windows are going to be getting quite a few wonderful new features in the next two years or so. 2004-05-28 5:56 pm … but noone wants it 🙁 2004-05-28 6:05 pm doesn’t look impressive, what’s all the fuss about 3D desktops. What a waste of energy 2004-05-28 6:09 pm http://www.directfb.org/screenshots/DirectFB_3D_Windows3.png 2004-05-28 6:23 pm I’m interested in any performance measurements on this and on the transparancy of DirectFB. It looks great, but so did the demonstration on FOSDEM on Dok’s laptop. However how fast that thing was (played 5 movies!) wasn’t mentioned. 2004-05-28 7:00 pm Perhaps we should find out if the Xorg folks would be willing to migrate their backend over from directly using hardware devices over to using some generic backend which would just happen to play VERY nicely with DirectFB.The Xorg folks probably have more to be concerned with in user space than kernel space.And of course DirectFB would allow people to play with development of new and potentially radical UI systems while not having to reinvent the wheel every single time in order to get even minimal hardware acceleration. 2004-05-28 7:11 pm doesn’t look impressive, what’s all the fuss about 3D desktops. What a waste of energybut buying a $200 video card with more power then the rest of the computer that sits and doesn’t do anything most of the time isn’t a waste?personally, i think its awesome that window managers are starting to take advantage of graphics processors. if it means eye candy, so be it. as long as it’s taking work away from my processor(s) make it as pretty as you want! 2004-05-28 7:26 pm doesn’t look impressive, what’s all the fuss about 3D desktops. What a waste of energyI agree not that thrilling. Just looks pretty..would it allow me to work more efficiently i think not. Waste of energy sums it up perfectly. 2004-05-28 7:32 pm This should also be possible with the composite extension that are currently in XServer (not in XOrg which is the stable one, but the unstable full eye candy one).Since every window there is easily accesible as an image, the window manager can just use opengl and plug them onto ploygons. Infact, that is probably how Sun’s Looking Glass project works as well.Infact, if you compile with it, metacity has something like it already working with the experimental XServer. It is only 2d, but it does do image manipulation on the window. Extending it to 3d and opengl is easily possible. 2004-05-28 8:58 pm the xserver people and the directfb people are working together on some lowlevel stuff like modesetting code and an opengl implementation. 2004-05-28 9:01 pm it works with nearly *no* modern grafics cards, and the boards supported are pretty seldom these days… i doubt there will be many people going back to an voodoo board for this. 2004-05-28 9:12 pm but buying a $200 video card with more power then the rest of the computer that sits and doesn’t do anything most of the time isn’t a waste?Yeah, let’s put all of our electrical machines in the house on 24/7 because why would you spend thousands on stuff that just sits there most of the time when you can get huge electical bills instead?Seriously, it’s just as stupid as “but why don’t you use your cpu to look for aliens? I mean it’s not doing anything most of the time anyway”. Well, I care a little about power consumtion and heat generation. Both for my own economics and for the enviroment. That’s also why I don’t keep my box on 24/7 anymore like I used to, when I realised how much power it really consumes. 2004-05-28 10:07 pm not its not stupid. stupid is to tell that what other people do is a complete waste. especially when it is obviously not.What do you think Avalon will be? rightWhat is already doing Quartz extrem ? rightNow, Linux won’t do it, because it sounds to be just eyecandy ?What they show on screenshot is meant to be impressive, to show what they can do, not that doing that is any usefull.What is a waste, is people not thinking about things, who are too narrow minded to see the usefullness, and even worse, who tells everyone that what they do is so nothing, so wastefull.And no, I have nothing to do with directfb. 2004-05-28 10:14 pm “would it allow me to work more efficiently i think not.”Well, i image that be true in your case (whatever kind of efficiency you’re up to) but perhaps the developer didn’t develop it with keeping in his mind wether this person Smartpatrol would work more efficiently or not.Maybe it wasn’t even meant for any serious work, who knows. Last time i checked this site ain’t specifically about software/hardware targetted at a professional environment anyway.You’re not working in a graphical oriented job environment anyway. This guy, in contrast to your job, is working for a company in Germany who are in the DVB business. He’s merely giving his source “away”. What a crime, isn’t it?“Waste of energy sums it up perfectly.”Pot, meet kettle. 2004-05-28 11:20 pm No pictures in Konqueror.Is this Gnome playing games with non-Gnome – as MS played games with Opera (costing MS $12 mill). Or is it a Konqueror bug/feature/incompability? Switching browser id doesn’t help and the built-in validator says no CSS and invalid HTML. 2004-05-28 11:27 pm And yeah, directly being on the frame buffer, that’s another really cool thing.Actually, that’s a really bad thing. Modern graphics cards don’t like having their framebuffer’s accessed directly. They want to do everything through command packets DMA’d to their internal memory. That’s how most OpenGL drivers today are written. Because of this, starting with DirectX 8.0, Microsoft deprecated DirectDraw and prohibited direct access to the primary surface. 2004-05-28 11:44 pm > Is this Gnome playing games with non-GnomeWhat are you talking about? Gnome dosn’t have a browser! It’s browser (engine) is mozilla. 2004-05-28 11:53 pm You’re opposed to using hardware that is by far the most efficient at processing video to render your desktop? Wow, good job. That really shows a lot of ignorance. 2004-05-29 3:46 am Is Kdrive aka Keiths XServer technically similar? I think both use a framebuffer. I think initially kdrive did.Anyway as dpi said on the previous page, I too am interested in knowing the performance of DirectFB.I realise there is a gtk port to it, so GNOME compiles. How quickly can this draw things to the screen? Redraw, etc.In comparison to Xorg(Xfree86). I have a feeling Xfree86 is faster due to the mature code. 2004-05-29 9:47 am What is a waste, is people not thinking about things, who are too narrow minded to see the usefullness, and even worse, who tells everyone that what they do is so nothing, so wastefull.Well you’re obviously not thinking much. I can see the usefulness/comfort/whatever of people taking the car to work instead of using public transportations. Does that mean that I think it’s ok and that they can do whatever they like? No, because their actions affects my life and my environment in a negative way and doesn’t improve my own life one bit.As much as you’d like it to be so, you don’t live alone in this world. If you don’t understand that every single one of your actions in one way or another affects everything else in this world, then you haven’t been thinking much.I was not trying to argue against hardware accelerated desktops because the current ones are allready that, but I tried to argue about the stupid argument of wasting energy and resources just for the sake of it. But if you tried to think for a sec then you would have realised what I was talking about. 2004-05-29 9:51 am You’re opposed to using hardware that is by far the most efficient at processing video to render your desktop? Wow, good job. That really shows a lot of ignorance.Please, I am an old Amiga user, I grew up with that design. And it might surprise you that your current desktop is allready hardware accellerated.The fact that you can only think in black or white shows a lot of ignorance. 2004-05-29 10:38 am About the problems with Konqueror and IE:This has NOTHING to do with CSS support. There is no CSS on that site. The code is an invalid tag soup. They have set the width/height of the images to nothing, so the browsers do what they’re told.Just because Mozilla overrides that, doesn’t mean that there’s a problem with Konqueror and IE. It’s a problem with the web site. 2004-05-29 11:06 am I’m concerned about electricity use, todays high speed pc’s already use too much electricity. An old pc uses far less electricity than a new one. And the number of pc’s globally grows drasticly as well.Plus the environment is getting screwed more every day by our huge electricty need.There’s been some positive evolvment like-lead free and less toxical motherboards,-TFT monitors which are more power efficient and produce smaller waste-plastics that are biodegradableI’m hoping on more power efficient computing, but 3D desktops bring exactly the opposite don’t they. A lot of people will do their old pc away and buy a new one just for running a 3D desktop so they can write their mails, browse the internet, watch their digital foto’s in a “better way”. That wastes more electricity of course 0.oThe amount of energy we,westerns, use is already to big. Fossil energy is destroying the environment, and we seem to need so much energy that alternative green energy is no option for providing all energy.Some environmentalists are even stating that we should start using more nuclear power to save the environment.But nuclear power is no good option on the long run, what about the nuclear waste, the safety of such a nuclear plant , etc.grtz 2004-05-29 9:22 pm Thank you for clearing that up. I was about to file a bug report. 2004-05-29 9:44 pm I was trying some days ago directfb and is great for those who like eye-candy and speed, i own a gf4mx440 videocard and i’ve tryed rivafb and dosn’t work with my videocard, i was using vesafb and works fine, i don’t have any acceleration but is usable, if im going to use directfb i would like to use with a matrox g200/400/450, etc. i think matrox are the best for fb/dfb/xdfb. 2004-05-31 9:37 am What are you talking about? We can send all of nuclear waste up to the space, on the moon or the mars or even deep in the space. Problem solved 2004-05-31 10:31 am We could but the nuclear plants and it’s waste are in the hands of money hungry people and they won’t spend millions on getting rid of the waste , they dump it in the oceans etc. And also … the spacecrafts carrying it away blow tons of carbon in the air. And what if such a spacecraft explodes ? It happened before, it will in future and if it carrys nuclear waste it’ll cause a radiation disaster again.