Home > Gnome > GNOME Development Release 2.7.2 GNOME Development Release 2.7.2 Submitted by Philipp Esselbach 2004-06-14 Gnome 45 Comments GNOME Development Release 2.7.2 has been released for testing. About The Author Eugenia Loli Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker. Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli 45 Comments 2004-06-14 8:46 pm Has anyone tested this yet? Is it faster than previous releases in any way? 2004-06-14 9:07 pm hopely, but Im not worried about it, GNOME 2.6 runs really fast in my PC. 2004-06-14 9:16 pm Yes. Nautilus is lightning fast. It’s even much faster than Windows Explorer now, when opening a new window. 2004-06-14 9:19 pm Before anyone complains about spatial yet again: you can easily disable it! And no, I don’t mean GConf. Go to http://gnomesupport.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6672 Download, Extract and Run. You can disable sptial in one simple click. No installation or compilation required. 2004-06-14 9:21 pm that link isnt accessible now. perhaps a new link is necessary 2004-06-14 9:23 pm The link works fine here using firefox 0.9 RC0 2004-06-14 9:23 pm Mmm? I just accessed it and it works perfectly. Anyway, here’s another link for another utility disabling spacial Nautilus: http://gtweakui.sourceforge.net/ 2004-06-14 9:35 pm Forbidden You don’t have permission to access /forums/viewtopic.php on this server. Apache/1.3.27 Server at gnomesupport.org Port 80 2004-06-14 9:43 pm Well, I guess your IP range is blacklisted or something like that… 2004-06-14 10:03 pm > Yes. Nautilus is lightning fast. It’s even much faster than Windows Explorer now, when opening a new window. Hope you’re right and do not troll here. I wish, my 2000+ picture directory listing is faster if I run Gnome 2.7/2.8 this winter… (if I enable picture-preview, Nautilus is awful slow and I can’t do anything like in rox-filer, where I can start clicking on pictures when rox-filer create his thumbnails in the background) rox rocks 🙂 2004-06-14 10:12 pm Why is it that the Gnome developers not only have to be one sided, they also have to be condescending babies? Why do you have to develop this “Gnome extras” and then add to the post “Do you also refuse to spend 15 seconds to disable spatial Nautilus using gconf-editor and would rather complain about it on forums, mailing lists, and Slashdot?[/i]” Jeez, you think they’d fix their screw up by simply adding a disable option to Gnome proper. Instead, they have to add a standalone app that 99.999% of people will not download and add a subtle flame to it too? Advice: application developers who listen to their customers grow. Check out amazon.com, google, and ebay. If they do something wrong, they fix it. I even know of a certain website that changed its layout, and when users didn’t like it, it was reverted to the old layout. Why does this have to go on like this? 2004-06-14 10:19 pm Are you sure that “FooBarWidget” guy is a gnome developer? It seems to me he is just a user that wrote an app to serve as a gui front end to changing that gconf option. I think he was trying to be funny in his initial post, to make it sound like a TV ad or something. In any event, I think most of the gnomedesktop.org posts are by users, so I wouldn’t necessarily attribute something to the developers. 2004-06-14 10:30 pm You mean they still haven’t added the browser feature as an option in Nautilus? (I don’t mean using any ‘extras’ program of course). When will the Gnome developers learn? 2004-06-14 10:31 pm I agree. Developers need to listen to their users. All their fancy object-modelled desktops sounds great in theory. But when it comes down the user, I have yet to meet one who likes this spatial stuff. Developers, listen to users! 2004-06-14 10:34 pm Actually as of Nautilus 2.7, the file manager type is supposed to be in the normal file manager preferences tool. Although, I’d like to see window style, keyboard shortcuts, and window open behavior seperated from one another as options. That way I could have a single window, with the nifty keyboard shortcuts, and the visially appealing windows of the spatial browser. All the spatial browser really needs is a better way to view the path. My vote is to reuse the open/save dialogues widgets, and a way to see the tree. A seperate app, that could open a tree would be really spiffy. 2004-06-14 11:02 pm “I have yet to meet one who likes this spatial stuff.” I do. It takes a while to get used to, but it’s really worth the effort. Nautilus in spatial mode is a *file manager*, not a *file browser*. It makes moving and organizing files a snap. If you need to “explore” deep heriarchies on your filesystem, just open it in browser mode (there are plenty of ways of doing so in gnome 2.6). I had always used the command line over any file manager for most tasks, but now I find myself doing lots of these things visually using spatial nautilus. It’s fast, simple and intuitive. It’s got room for improvement, of course. After all, it is only the first iteration of the concept on gnome land, so that was to be expected. But overall, I like it. Give it a try (use it for more than 10 minutes) and you’ll come to dig it. 2004-06-14 11:41 pm “You mean they still haven’t added the browser feature as an option in Nautilus? (I don’t mean using any ‘extras’ program of course). When will the Gnome developers learn? ” of course there is a option from the application menu called “browse filesystem”. any idiot using gnome would be aware of this. so stop trolling and talk about something productive 2004-06-14 11:55 pm However, will Nautilus 2.8 still default to spatial? I know there was a lot fo criticism and many people dislike the spatial mode, so will they take these criticisms and disable spatial as default or will they radically improve it and leave it default? 2004-06-14 11:57 pm You know, it was actually quite difficult for me to get used to the cut and paste paradigm for moving files around. Drag and drop is just a million times better. Spatial better facilitates drag and drop, so I like it better. If you want to _manage_, spatial is good. If you’re _browsing_ for one thing in particular, the browser variant is probably better _if_ you don’t keep a shallow directory structure. But I don’t usually browse (I tend to just use slocate to access the file directly), so obviously, spatial Nautilus seems like a much better way forward. -Erwos 2004-06-14 11:59 pm “However, will Nautilus 2.8 still default to spatial? I know there was a lot fo criticism and many people dislike the spatial mode, so will they take these criticisms and disable spatial as default or will they radically improve it and leave it default? ” a lot of people like it too. spatial mode will be improved and still would be default. there will be a option to close all windows with a single shortcut key instead of just the parents. there will be a option to switch to navigational mode completely and there will be more visible UI elements for the parent menu as far as spatial mode goes there isnt much left to improve. 2004-06-15 12:40 am “I agree. Developers need to listen to their users. All their fancy object-modelled desktops sounds great in theory. But when it comes down the user, I have yet to meet one who likes this spatial stuff. Developers, listen to users!” No, please keep it. This new spatialness is great. Once you have learned to use it. Especially on laptops, I can’t even count the number of times I have dropped a file on the file tree by mistake at some unknown part of the filesystem tree when using my Laptop on shaky airplains or trains. This never happens in the new browser model. So, this new Nautilus has actually made me switch from KDE, (where I used the command line to move and copy files) to use the browser and the desktop. 2004-06-15 12:47 am “However, will Nautilus 2.8 still default to spatial? I know there was a lot fo criticism and many people dislike the spatial mode, so will they take these criticisms and disable spatial as default or will they radically improve it and leave it default?” As I like it, I really hope they improve it. One improvement I would like to see is tha ability to autmagically close the current window if you select a parent directory from the popup menu in the lower left corner of each window. Perhaps it could be don by select the window with the middle mous button. That way it would be easy to remember as doubleclick on the middle button on a folder closes the parent. 2004-06-15 1:03 am ” As I like it, I really hope they improve it. One improvement I would like to see is tha ability to autmagically close the current window if you select a parent directory from the popup menu in the lower left corner of each window.” thats a good idea. please file a wish list bug in bugs.gnome.og 2004-06-15 1:59 am Actually, it’s such a nice idea that it went into CVS about a week ago, IIRC. Middle-mouse-button behavior will be much more consistent in 2.8, which I am very glad about because I too love spatial. 2004-06-15 2:21 am It doesn’t really seem like a full 2.7.2 release. The only differences between 2.7.1 are: libsoup-2.1.11, gal-2.1.10, evolution-data-server-0.0.94, gtkhtml-3.1.16, evolution-22.214.171.124, gnome-icon-theme-1.3.3, evolution-webcal-1.0.5, gnome-games-2.7.3, gcalctool-4.4.8, gnome-terminal-2.7.2, gpdf-2.7.2, gstreamer-0.8.3, libgtkhtml-2.6.2, librsvg-2.7.2, gnopernicus-0.9.5, gok-0.11.4, gnome-speech-0.3.3, nautilus-cd-burner-2.7.2, gdm-126.96.36.199 Not really too much of a change. Bring on D-Bus. 2004-06-15 2:47 am I’m using gnome 2.6, it’s the first time I’ve used gnome for an extended period. It’s OK, but doesn’t seem like it’s as configurable as KDE. I can’t configure it to open a file with a single-click, something I got used to in KDE. Also, it seems like all your desktops have to have the same background. Maybe I just haven’t figured out how to change these settings. Seems like these things could be provided as easy-to-set-up options. I miss BeOS, where you could easily set up a different screen resolution on each of your desktops. 2004-06-15 3:42 am dzen, there is a general interface for seldom-used or esoteric options. Run “gconf-editor” – may be called something like “Configuration Editor” in the menu. From there you can browse all options for all Gnome applications, as well as desktop settings and so on. And yes, if you go to Nautilus in gconf-editor, you can set it to use single-click. For having different desktop backgrounds, right now there is a thread on the gnome-love mailing list about a new, small application called “Wallpapoz” at http://www.akbarhome.com/download/ that does what you want. Just note that this is apparently very much work-in-progress (so help and feedback is likely very welcome!). 2004-06-15 4:33 am ” I can’t configure it to open a file with a single-click, something I got used to in KDE.” Open nautilus, Edit -> Preferences -> Behavior 2004-06-15 6:42 am really, i think, defaulting to spatial nautilus is the right idea. there are tons of users out there who live quite happily with 5 or 6 folders (documents, music, pictures, maybe video and some else). these plus one that’s called “inbox” (or “downloads”, whatever). then link them on the desktop and open them in different places and different sizes. tell the user: “look, here are your music-files”, “look, here are your documents, and this is the place where everything goes when you download it from the internet or save it from an email”. users are very happy with this setup, and can deal with it with minimal computer experience. for all the others, who need a file-hierarchy (heck, even i do): change nautilus to old behaviour in 3 simple clicks. it was not that hard in win95, it is not that hard now. kudos to the gnome-team for their decision to default to spatial nautilus. it was the right decision. it would have been completely wrong to do it the other way round… regards, christian 2004-06-15 7:05 am Explorer is much faster than Konqueror. Konqueror is much faster than Nautilus. That’s the reality. Try some directories with a lot of files and you will see the difference. 2004-06-15 7:18 am It’s also important to note that the current default allows you do use BOTH the browser and spatial folder windows. Opening the browser is as easy as to click the item in the applications menu, which you can easily drag on your panel or desktop. Yes, that’s there by default. Opening a desktop folder directly in the browser is a little less convenient as you have to use the context menu, but then again, desktop folders should usually not contain huge hierarchies. How anyone can claim that you have to use gconf to use the browser is completely beyond me. I do believe that many complain about the situation without really understanding the details or because they want to complain and are thus unable (or unwilling) to see the facts. The only thing the gconf key does is to make doubleclicking a desktop folder default to opening this folder in a browser application window and thus making it impossible to open spatial folder windows at all. So if this would be the default, you would have to use the browser (by default) and all the hard work and nifty features would be invisible to the user. The most important point is, that GNOME is still a community project and as most developers do like (and often use) the spatial features and there are LOTS of users who really love it (count me in), this will not happen. But as was pointed out, of course there will be the option to revert to classic mode in the GUI, to also satisfy those who really can’t live at all with the new way. As the browser is still available (and supported!), there is luckily no big cost to this option. If that’s still not enough for someone, I don’t know what to say anymore. 2004-06-15 7:39 am 1) It may surprise or alienate you somewhat, but people who post to OS News forums are not our primary target user base, so the “listening to customers” argument does not necessarily apply. 🙂 2) Dude, the option to switch between modes by default has been exposed in the user interface since 2.6.1. 2004-06-15 7:39 am “One improvement I would like to see is tha ability to autmagically close the current window if you select a parent directory from the popup menu in the lower left corner of each window. ” This is already the case- when you click in the directory field located in the bottom left part of the window a popup displays the parent directories- a la hierarchy, if you then middle click on one of these entries the current window is closed and replaced by the window of the parent directory. At least this works on mine…in nautilus cvs and nautilus 2.7.1 2004-06-15 7:48 am >I agree. Developers need to listen to their users. All their >fancy object-modelled desktops sounds great in theory. But >when it comes down the user, I have yet to meet one who likes >this spatial stuff. Developers, listen to users! I used to hate it. Tried it for a day, and now I love it. (one nice thing, try double clicking the middle mouse button on a folder). Lets not forget that it is often thouse thay yell loudest that gets attention. The many which think it’s nice doesn’t yell about it. And the potentional userbase this spatial mode is aimed at, is not the persons likely to appear on mailinglists or forums anyway.. 2004-06-15 9:08 am “When will the Gnome developers learn?” When will the trolls learn? I like spatial Nautilus. Lightning fast, ideal for drag-n-drop. I’m using it every day. And once again, for all the trolls who just don’t get it, in AOL-compatible text: YOU CAN DISABLE SPATIAL MODE IN THE FILE MANAGER PREFERENCES APP IN THE NEXT RELEASE. Since i guess those people i was talking about haven’t even switched back to browser mode because they rather spend all the time complaining about it, couldn’t we just shut down the WWW so they are forced to play around with their file manager in boredom, and discover the beauty of it once they get the idea? 2004-06-15 11:22 am The stupid checkbutton won’t be useful to anybody. To be useful to someone, that someone would have to actually *use* browser nautilus, and all the flamers are command line users anyway, I’ll bet. They are just *guessing* what Nautilus users would like. 2004-06-15 11:39 am “All the spatial browser really needs is a better way to view the path.” Most of what the spatial _nautilus_ is about is hiding the path. The spatial metaphor is that there is objects that contain objects, not paths that contain folders/files. Sounds like the same thing but it isn’t. Unfortunately, the full power of spatial nautilus is not available because the filesystems that nautilus has to work with are hierarchial, and so the object-ness of things is a bit glued on. As for the usefulness of spatial nautilus without meta-data filesystems, it’s the more or less the same. It just requires you to do the categorizing by hand. When meta-data gets usable, spatial nautilus will be rock solid and refined already to take full advantage of the meta-data. But this won’t happen if the developers “listen to their users” as someone said and f*ck up the spatial nautilus by making it a browser. 2004-06-15 12:42 pm When was the last time you pulled an entire drawer out of your filing cabinet, brought the whole thing to your desk, then pulled every folder out till you found the one you wanted? you dont, you browse through the drawer until you find the file you want and THEN bring it to your desk. imo, spatial is fine if you have a simple setup, but it is no purer a metaphor than browsing. both have part of it correct, imo. 2004-06-15 1:06 pm Yes, spatial file management has been described as a metaphor closer to real world circumstances, but that is inaccurate. The spatial concept is used to promote *internal* physical consistency and familiarity, while reducing abstraction. It creates a direct physical relationship between the concept of a folder, and its manifestation as a window, ie. the window *is* the folder, without abstraction. It’s a one-to-one relationship. I find it somewhat frustrating that supporters of spatial file management invoke “real world metaphors” as a justification for its design. That really has nothing to do with it, beyond totally normal “object” metaphors – ie. an object on the screen is an entity unto itself, like buttons and windows. The most important underlying concept in the design, for me, is that it embraces and describes abstract objects on the screen so well. All of this crap we put on the screen *is* abstract, and using spatial design is a great way to reel some of the abstraction in. 🙂 2004-06-15 2:16 pm I do. It takes a while to get used to, but it’s really worth the effort. This is the argument I hear most often from the pro-spatial crowd. ( And then only online. I’ve never met anyone in person who likes spatial. ) But the argument is that the spatial model is EASIER and MORE INTUITIVE. Yet it’s not. The spatial argument quickly goes from: Spatial: “Try me! I’m easier to use and more intuitive!” User: “No you’re not. I hate you.” Spatial: “Well it’s worth the effort to get used to me.. I’m easier and more intuitive when you spend time getting used to me and change the way you lay out files and browse your computer and expect your computer to act…” 2004-06-15 2:21 pm You know, it was actually quite difficult for me to get used to the cut and paste paradigm for moving files around. Drag and drop is just a million times better. Spatial better facilitates drag and drop, so I like it better. Konqueror using split views ( Window -> Split View Left/ Right ) is way easier and less intrusive than spatial Nautilus for “Drag and Drop” file management. Of course, Konqueror in general has always been faster and better than Nautilus. It’s the ONE reason I can’t use GNOME at home. ( I have to at work ) 2004-06-15 3:08 pm I honestly think that building the compositing engine is of notice here. This debate over nautilus boils down to one core issue, that until we have a unified db-type filesystem spatial nautilus isn’t all that practical. However, the debate should be “add an option proper to go back to browser”. Which, for all your complaining, modify the source code and do it yourself…otherwise quit whining this is OSS. I honestly am dissappointed that attention hasn’t been focused on what they are trying to do with Cairo. That is what I’m excited about gnome 2.8 for. 2004-06-15 3:58 pm “This is already the case- when you click in the directory field located in the bottom left part of the window a popup displays the parent directories- a la hierarchy, if you then middle click on one of these entries the current window is closed and replaced by the window of the parent directory.” Great to hear that they have improved this. But if it replaces the current window I think we have a bug. I think the spatialness should be maintained, i.e. the window should open in whatever position it had when it was opened last. But I guess this is what really happens if you look more closely? 2004-06-15 5:53 pm To all those people who keep saying that you don’t know anyone who actually likes the new spatial mode….I like it! It makes more sense to my grandmother. She doesn’t lose track of where she is at. And the option is there to turn it off. And the new release is going to have the ability to change it in the preferences dialog, now let’s just drop this whole troll on spatial. 2004-06-15 10:36 pm Let’s focus on Cairo instead, it’s not like this dead horse hasn’t been beaten past Pluto anyway.