Here is a preview of the upcoming KDE 3.3 and here is a review of KDE 3.2.1.
What’s New, KDE 3.3 Preview
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
I really love kde, and thank all those who do the “dirty” work. My problem though is fonts. On SuSE, Mandrake and Fedora, my fonts are blurry. When I remove anti-aliasing, they look worse. I have managed to have Yahoo Messenger installed and find its fonts great, but I have not had [any] luck with Konqueror. I have even grabbed MS fonts from Sourceforge…nothing has made things better. What can be done to have fonts like as shown in this graphic? Have a look: http://kdevelop.org/graphics/pic_corner/kdevelop-3.0_IDEAl_KDE_plas…
In fact, a better GUI than anything else I have seen yet, production or prototype.
That has been an age old problem… its funny though, I used to have the same problem before I got a decent monitor. Perhaps you should try the same?
You need a version of the Freetype library that has the bytecode interpreter enabled. Without it all non-antialiased fonts look terrible.
Read more here: http://www.freetype.org/patents.html
That has been an age old problem… its funny though, I used to have the same problem before I got a decent monitor. Perhaps you should try the same?
I should inform you that the fonts are wonderful in Yahoo Messenger for Linux on the *same* machine. They also look good on Windows XP. Note that I am using a Samsung 753DF Monitor which is good enough. My trouble is with KDE apps.
What can be done to have fonts like as shown in this graphic?
This screenshot was taken with anti-aliasing disabled.
If you get ugly font when AA is disabled, then install better fonts like the Bistream Vera font family (http://www.gnome.org/fonts/), and it should be alright.
Since FT 2.x came out, I’ve never had better fonts. Its rendering far surpasses MacOS and Windows.’
I would suggest you just download the plain vanilla version of FreeType and then install it from source.
The only distro that does fonts right out of the box is SuSE. Every other one needs to be recompiled, in my experience.
Strange, on my gentoo box, I find that fonts like Luxi and Vera Bitstream look fantastic in either KDE or GNOME. I did install some more for variety, like the MS core fonts, but I don’t have any major font problems on my gentoo box at all.
Even in my web browsing, I am very pleased how the fonts are looking.
The only application that did kinda look rough was Opera. The menu fonts were tiny by default. I set everything in Opera to use the Luxi font and now it looks pretty good.
It always amazes me that after 5 years of its release Tracker for BeOS is still way ahead of these Linux desktop wanabes. And that is with no Tracker improvements in that time. If only someone was porting Tracker to Linux… oh, wait.. someone is! Doh! BeFree, Cosmoe, and BlueEyedOS are all doing that…
“Better than Windows XP
By Andrew (IP: —.fbx.proxad.net) – Posted on 2004-06-26 17:17:46
In fact, a better GUI than anything else I have seen yet, production or prototype.
”
Yeah right. And WindowsXP’s gui crashes out all the time too. I’m so tired of the Linux fanboys its sickening. I love the idea of linux but no way you can tell me it has the plug and play, stablility, directx9, etc that XP has. If all I needed was a notepad, email, mp3 and a browser maybe.
Uh, how is tracker better than, for example, Konqueror?
I have to admit that tracker was great for it’s time, but it doesn’t hold a candle to modern file managers.
“But I’ll tell you this, I’ll take bloat over that spacial nautilus any day.”
Well, let me tell you this: I’ll take that spatial nautilus over the KDE 3.2.2 “disappearing arrowheads in the K menu” bug. Seriously, how can a tester POSSIBLY miss something like that?
That was the most level headed, unbiased, transparent interview I have read. If only we had more of this kind of attitude.
Though it could be because I haven’t used it, and KDE 3.3 might end up being the best thing sinced sliced bread, it appears they still have the same basic problem that causes me to prefer Gnome.
Why does everything have to be packed so close together on the toolbar? Why can’t the little arrows on toolbar icons that bring up a menu be positioned so that they aren’t right next to the icon? Also, in the file browser, looking at the “buttons” on the vertical strip… putting the “button” border around them, and then not allowing any space between them looks incredibly amateurish.
The stability argument is BS. XP is remarkably more stable than 9x, but please don’t tell me that it never crashes. Also I notice that the word “security” is nowhere on your list. If all I wanted was spending hours removing spyware, than maybe.
“Yeah right. And WindowsXP’s gui crashes out all the time too. I’m so tired of the Linux fanboys its sickening. I love the idea of linux but no way you can tell me it has the plug and play, stablility, directx9, etc that XP has. If all I needed was a notepad, email, mp3 and a browser maybe.”
While there is no denying that Windows does have its strengths as a desktop, things are not as cut and dried as you would make them out to be. Linux has its strengths as well, yes, even in the desktop space.
Linux is a more secure environment with a better security model than Windows. Linux graphical interfaces, like KDE, are almost infinitely customizable, you can literally tailor them in precise ways to help you work better. When set up properly, Linux GUI’s are also far more visually pleasing than Windows XP.
I have used Linux as my desktop OS at home exclusively for many months now. It meets my needs perfectly. The improvement I have seen in the last 12 months in Linux desktop land is stunning. Your comments reflect the Linux destkop of 1998, not the Linux desktop of today.
I’m still waiting for konqueror to be able to read http://www.globeandmail.com articles properly. There is a bug report about but nothing seems to have been done. can anyone running a 3.3 alpha check it out and let us know if the articles (not just the front page or poll) can be read w/o konqueror crashing?
“[refering to Amarok] (IMO greatly since the 3.2 release).”
… Amarok has not yet been released with KDE. It just recently released version 1.0. Is it actually part of KDE 3.3? I was not aware of that, though it wouldn’t surprise me.
As it is in fact my favorite MP3 player on any platform. Some of the newer features still need some cleanup, but they develop at a quick pace (they just started putting out releases in Sept. 03 about) so I have confidence it will only improve.
> the KDE 3.2.2 “disappearing arrowheads in the K menu” bug.
Which is actually a problem with Qt 3.3 – either patch it or compile KDE 3.2.2 against Qt 3.2.
> Seriously, how can a tester POSSIBLY miss something like that?
Qt 3.3, which introduced a changed behavior, was released after KDE 3.2. And even then, not everybody has the panel side image enabled.
> Is it actually part of KDE 3.3?
No.
Works fine for me with Konqueror 3.2.3…
=( Love kde3.2 really do! But I crave sound quality !!! Need it! live for it! Please o please fix aRts…
Other than that 3.2 r0x…
I can second that. http://www.globeandmail.com renders fast and looks fine here. That is Konqueror 3.2.3.
The stability argument is BS. XP is remarkably more stable than 9x, but please don’t tell me that it never crashes.
It doesn’t .. least not for me.
Also I notice that the word “security” is nowhere on your list. If all I wanted was spending hours removing spyware, than maybe.
Alright, since you’re trolling – if I wanted to compile every app I wanted to install, then maybe I’d be using Linux.
For the guy with the Font Problem:
-Go to http://plf.zarb.org/ grab their version of freetype2. It has the stuff in it that is covered by the patent.
-Yes. ARTs must die. Actually, the Devs seem to have come to that consensus as well (check their list archives). But there will be no change until KDE 4.x, if then.
He is right about the secuirty problem on Windows. Have you not heard the about the lastest nasty virri yet ?
http://www.wired.com/news/infostructure/0,1377,63994,00.html?tw=wn_…
P.S. You don’t have to compile every app on RPM based Linux distros. You can use URPMI and be happy and move on with your life. Oh and you can get freetype with the bytecode turned on from the PLF guys for MDK 10.0. Also the Bitstream fonts look great with or without the code turned on.
http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?t=866
“Still will never come close to what Apple can do with their Aqua user interface and Quartz Extreme. Maybe in 5 years.
”
who cares?. we dont want an aqua clone. if you want apple buy and use them. dont come up and tell people that other systems wont be aqua. we are talking about the next release of kde. if you have anything useful to comment do it or find a apple mac thread for your fan boyish. there is one right above
hehe, i’m STILL using KDE3.1
Thats what I love about Linux. It just works. But its great that KDE is still improving.
I have a 753DF too and fonts looks on KDE. I always used “Luxi Sans” for everything (except for monotype, where I use “Bitstream Vera Sans mono”), mabye you should try that.
“By forcing you click send in order to send your messages, Kopete makes it easier to enter text that takes up many lines, like ASCII art or programming code.”
Why not just use ctrl+enter for more lines, like MSN?
“It doesn’t .. least not for me.”
Well, Linux never crashes for me either, so guess we are even.
“Alright, since you’re trolling – if I wanted to compile every app I wanted to install, then maybe I’d be…”
Exactly how was I trolling? And you don’t have to compile “every app you want to install”. I’m using Slackware, and all the apps I have were installed from precompiled .tgz packages.
“if I wanted to compile every app I wanted to install, then maybe I’d be using Linux”
You sure don’t have a clue about what you’re talking about. OSS is about choice: if you _want_ you can compile everything from source, but if you don’t you have virtually every app available in a pre-compiled form. It’s up to you to choose…
If you want to troll, please do it with inteligence and knowledge!
“By forcing you click send in order to send your messages, Kopete makes it easier to enter text that takes up many lines, like ASCII art or programming code.”
Why not just use ctrl+enter for more lines, like MSN?”
thats exactly the default short cut key and its modifiable like all kde apps
Why not just use ctrl+enter for more lines, like MSN?
For English-only speakers, this may work fine. However, almost all users who rely on some for of a Input Method for foreign languages (e.g. xcin, kinput, uim, etc) requires the Enter key to be pressed multiple times to select the characters to be shown on screen.
Gaim has the option to “Send” with ctrl-enter, and disable sending when pressed enter. Unless Kopete can differenciate Enter key presses between XIM preedit mode and Kopete itself, I don’t think international users (affect only cjk users?) will find such settings desirable.
When everyone watches the WWDC next week. Everyone, including me, and alot of others here, like every WWDC, will be in awe about how great Mac OSX “Tiger” looks, along with it’s special desktop effects. And how you can run MS Office, Photoshop, Quicktime, along with OpenOffice, and a whole host of open source solutions as well, with Tiger. Just in my opinion. Only my opinion!. KDE is not even close to what Aqua is today. Sure allot of people don’t care. But it sells a product. And Linux needs to sell, to beatout MS and Apple on the desktop. And it also needs to sell, so that major applications that everyone uses everyday will someday be ported to Linux. Like Photoshop, Quicktime, major 3d games, like Halflife and Doom3, more office applications for businesses and home users, and multimedia apps. Like a major DVD player that can ship fully functional with a Linux distribution.
The issue of Kopete sending on Enter has been addressed on bugs.kde.org & elsewhere. 2 Reasons it sends with Ctrl-Enter: 1) That’s what other KDE programs use. Consistency. 2) Input methods.
It’s easy to change.
Could someone write down, step by step instructions to get fonts like in the following screenshot please?
http://kdevelop.org/graphics/pic_corner/kdevelop-3.0_IDEAl_KDE_plas…
That is Microsoft Tahoma and Courier New with anti-aliasing turned off. Check out the forum link I posted as well, may help.
Actually the Linux version of Doom 3 is already in the works.
1)Login as root
2) Download: http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/freetype/freetype-2.1.9.tar.bz2?…
3)Unbzip and untar the file.
4) Uncommnet line 439 in freetype-2.1.9/include/freetype/config/ftoption.h
5) Go back to the freetype-2.1.9 directory
6) ./configure –prefix=/usr
7) make
8) rm -rf /usr/lib/*freetype* (be careful here!)
9) make install
10) Grab Microsoft’s core fonts and stick them in /usr/share/fonts
11) Start up KDE, go to the font preferences panel, and turn *off* anti-aliasing. Make sure to select the MS fonts as your UI fonts.
-=Solaris.M.K.A=-
user3rdpartyhardwaresoftware argument! Even AFTER the latest virus attack!
This latest virus attack exploited an unpatched hole in Internet Explorer. My point? Don’t use Internet Explorer. If you don’t, about half of your Windows security problems will go away. The other half mostly revolves around common sense.
And for stabillity. I’ve seen an OEM version’s of XP crash!!!
Ya know, you’re right. When I said mine never crashed, I was wrong. It actually crashes all the time – thanks for clearing that up for me.
Anonymous
Exactly how was I trolling?
You were trolling when you said:
Also I notice that the word “security” is nowhere on your list. If all I wanted was spending hours removing spyware, than maybe.
The truth is that if you knew what you were doing, you’d spend zero time removing spyware and about 10-15 minutes a month on security. (If you’re interested in how to go about this, I could possibly post an article here that explains it). Since you made a total bullshit comment, I made one of my own about having to compile all your apps in Linux. Apparently though, most of you weren’t even smart enough to figure that out.
‘ And Linux needs to sell, to beatout MS and Apple on the desktop.’
GNU/Linux isn’t about profit. That’s the beauty of it.
Mouse gestures e.g. back/forward by sliding the mouse while MB2 down – is already in Konqueror 3.2.3 – at least the version from SuSE.
When you say “tripe” does that include IE which is installed by default ? The recent expliot that is running around snatching up credit cards does so via a secuirty loop hole in IE and IIS on the server end.
WHAT THE HELL are you talking about?? The point of my post was exactly the you DON’T have to compile anything. Quote from my original post:
“all the apps I have were installed from precompiled .tgz packages.”
And where did you see me “making excuses” for XP?? How about you learn to read before calling someone else stupid?
I was quick to jump the gun and for that I appologize. I’m really sorry!
@Darius
Ya know, you’re right. When I said mine never crashed, I was wrong. It actually crashes all the time – thanks for clearing that up for me.
No Problem. Its quite the myth that XP never crashes. Maby for some users out there it crashes less, but it still crashes ALOT compared to Linux and or BSD.
You were trolling when you said:
Also I notice that the word “security” is nowhere on your list. If all I wanted was spending hours removing spyware, than maybe.
That wasn’t a troll but a fact. You do have to spend ours removing spyware.
The truth is that if you knew what you were doing, you’d spend zero time removing spyware and about 10-15 minutes a month on security. (If you’re interested in how to go about this, I could possibly post an article here that explains it). Since you made a total bullshit comment, I made one of my own about having to compile all your apps in Linux. Apparently though, most of you weren’t even smart enough to figure that out.
Well the first comment wasn’t bullshit. Even a ‘secured’ xp box can STILL get infected and you can post all the articles you want. Heck there is enough howgreatSP1231321634354 is already! Its STILL doesn’t change the fact that windows is STILL shit! The fact that you and others like you reapeat over and over again the same exuses. Your right though about compiling in linux. But you have to get the facts striaght that its more than just the user its Mirco$oft itself.
Well, it seems we are. I will never use windows by choice again, because of one incident: My brother’s XP machine once caught a dialer that was installed automatically somehow. That is, someone actually used windows to steal money from my family. I wouldn’t accept that from any operating system, so I use Linux where the risk of this is pratically 0.
There, that’s that settled once and for all for me and anyone else who thinks the risk is too great. Everyone else, just use whatever you like most/can afford/think is the best value/whatever. I won’t stop you but I will correct you if you say no one gets hurt by windows.
Everything crashes, including XP. In my experience, however, XP is as stable as any Linux desktop I’ve used. Use a good firewall, don’t run IE or Outlook, and don’t load your machine with a bunch of unknown programs. So far as I know, I’ve never had any spyware on my XP machine.
Arguably, a Linux desktop can be made more secure than an XP desktop, if the user knows what he’s doing. That’s a significant caveat. Windows users can buy a hardware or software firewall and be reasonably confident. Linux users can’t do that. They have to relay on canned firewall scripts or write their own. In the first instance. if the user is qualified to judge the effectiveness of the code in a canned firewall, he might as well write hs own. In the second instance, I suspect many homebrew Linux firewalls are written by users who really ought not to trust their own code.
Distributions targetting the desktop market need to install and activate a good software firewall by default.
Everything crashes, including XP. In my experience, however, XP is as stable as any Linux desktop I’ve used.
Well, just from my own experience, XP is just the same as the other M$ OS’es with an idiot GUI. Its really just win2k.
Use a good firewall,
Ah yes, A firewall that lets everything out even though it blocks somethings in. The only way you can ‘protect’ XP is to use a 3rd party firewall. But eather way both draggs down XP’s performanse. Hence the BSOD’s
don’t run IE or Outlook,
Easier said than done. IE and Outlook are intergrated within windows.
and don’t load your machine with a bunch of unknown programs.
And how do you know what program is ‘unknown’ The fact is even M$ update will install things behind your back.
So far as I know, I’ve never had any spyware on my XP machine.
But I know many that have. Take a trip to your local repair shop.
Arguably, a Linux desktop can be made more secure than an XP desktop, if the user knows what he’s doing. That’s a significant caveat.
Not nessesaraly. Linux, by default can pritty much become secure out of the box. You can choose what you want installed and its dead easy to turn someting off. Try that with windows without breaking something and/or borking up the registry.
[]
Windows users can buy a hardware or software firewall and be reasonably confident.[/i]
So can Linux users. The only difference is that Linux already comes with a software firewall that is already brilliant.
Linux users can’t do that.
Yes they can!
They have to relay on canned firewall scripts or write their own.
Utter bullshit!
In the first instance. if the user is qualified to judge the effectiveness of the code in a canned firewall, he might as well write hs own.
Bullshit! What are you talking about? All one has to do is activate his/her firewall through one of the configurations programs that come with the distro and that is it. Heck its as simple as going through a 4 step wizard.
In the second instance, I suspect many homebrew Linux firewalls are written by users who really ought not to trust their own code.
What are you running? evil Black Box Linux running the 1.2 kernel. You sir are way behind the times. I was comparing a modern, average day to day Linux disto to the modern day to day M$ desktop. Of course Linux has the advantage when it comes to firewalls. But then when it comes to firewalls Linux has been at it a hell of a lot longer than windows. So its going to be more secure and also easier to use than that of windows.
Distributions targetting the desktop market need to install and activate a good software firewall by default.
They do! So there is not even a need for that sentence.
Ah yes, A firewall that lets everything out even though it blocks somethings in. The only way you can ‘protect’ XP is to use a 3rd party firewall. But eather way both draggs down XP’s performanse. Hence the BSOD’s
Oh, Jesus Christ … where do they get these people? Are you trying to tell us all that it’s impossible to run Windows (2k/XP) without spyware and without BSODs?
“Oh, Jesus Christ … where do they get these people? Are you trying to tell us all that it’s impossible to run Windows (2k/XP) without spyware and without BSODs?”
they can. just harder
Good question. EVEIN WITH THESE LATEST ATTACKS you windowz trolls are still going on WITH THE SAME LAME ASS EXUSES!!!
Good question, eh? Then why didn’t you answer it?
I am a KDE user, 3.2.3
I restore down Windows Media Player and move it accross my screen, I do the same with pick your choice of any KDE media player (kplayer, kmplayer, kaffeine, kaboodle, noatun) and movie it around double quick in my respected enviroment.
Windows Xp beats KDE 3.2.3, and it beats gnome 2.6.1 and even fluxbox. No fragments or ghosts or the screen where the movie is played does not lag behind the widgets.
And yes, I am running DRM, X.org 6.7, Linux 2.6.7 and my KDE (and various other open source desktops) is completly optimized for my processor.
I am a KDE user, 3.2.3
I restore down Windows Media Player and move it accross my screen, I do the same with pick your choice of any KDE media player (kplayer, kmplayer, kaffeine, kaboodle, noatun) and movie it around double quick in my respected enviroment.
Windows Xp beats KDE 3.2.3, and it beats gnome 2.6.1 and even fluxbox. No fragments or ghosts or the screen where the movie is played does not lag behind the widgets.
And yes, I am running DRM, X.org 6.7, Linux 2.6.7 and my KDE (and various other open source desktops) is completly optimized for my processor.
Really?
I’m a KDE 3.1 user using the 2.4 kernel. I can do anything windows can do, wothout any kind of lag. If I move an app it moves with grace. I see no ‘gohsting.’
Heck even to get the XP menu to open up is slow and thats on a windows desktop still in the show room!
Thank you so much guys! I appreciate it.
Hey ! Why are u all now trolling about : windowsXP vs Linuc ?
That have almost nothing to do with the arcticles !
My Question : Did someone try out the KDE-cvs ? what are your impressions ?
The screenshots of the article don’t show lots of improvoments.
I thought the control center would be totaly rewritten.
My brother’s XP machine once caught a dialer that was installed automatically somehow. That is, someone actually used windows to steal money from my family. I wouldn’t accept that from any operating system, so I use Linux where the risk of this is pratically 0.
That’s actually quite a risk, and worse, it can happen even when you’ve taken precautions and you think that it is OK. Internet Explorer allows software like this to be installed when you accept it from bogus web sites. No matter how experienced we are, we’ve all clicked yes to these things because we want the site to work. A browser and an OS should not allow software like that to be installed that changes your system. Sigh…
I remember there was a discussion about completely redesigning kcontrol on the kde-usability list but I doubt that this will happen before KDE 4. I think the intention of KDE 3.3 is, to make some gradual improvements and having a quick release before the development of KDE 4 starts. The radical changes are then made during the development of KDE 4. If you want to get a nice overview over KDE’s improvements you can read the KDE CVS digest: http://www.cvs-digest.org/ It is a very nice read and it summarizes the improvements and bugfixes made to KDE.
[/i]Ah yes, A firewall that lets everything out even though it blocks somethings in. The only way you can ‘protect’ XP is to use a 3rd party firewall. But eather way both draggs down XP’s performanse. Hence the BSOD’s
Oh, Jesus Christ … where do they get these people? Are you trying to tell us all that it’s impossible to run Windows (2k/XP) without spyware and without BSODs?[/i]
When you set up any firewall “PROPERLY” on xp, and by properly, I mean not allowing unspecified OUTGOING connections, then xp will give bsod over and over and over again.
I am almost totally convinced that it is ie integration that is the cause of this.
However, almost all xp users set the firewall to stop unauthourised incoming connections, but allow ie full outgoing access – stupid move
I’m sorry but this is just a terrible review. The points discussed are basicly opinions, not to mention the constant goffy comments about various parts of the desktop. This should have been posted undr the ‘opinions’ section.
My Thanks to both those who posed the question of better fonts as well as those who provided the answers. I was getting quite frustrated with the poor quality ( compared to XP) of the fonts as viewed on my Toshiba laptop.
Because I have poor vision, I was spending a great deal of time back in XP. Nowever, once I installed the modified libfreetype from plf.zarb.org and restarted X, Instant Goodness!!!
In my personal experience XP is much more stable than Redhat 9.0 with KDE.
Well that is your opinion. Many others have a different one.
Red
hat has choked atleast thrice on me where as XP has never.
Running RH9 now! still out performing XP!
Now please don’t give me BS to try another distro because Linux has 1000 of them and its so hard to decide and stick to one.
Sure as long as you don’t give us that its theenduserbadsoftwarehardware’s fault exuse that every other m$ shrill has given!
I can’t afford to waste my day doing install crap and so i better stick one OS and the by choice it goes to XP because its stable and does not have 1000 distro with each having its own set of problems.
Welp I haven’t got time to wast removing viruses, spyware and trying to fix the registry and the .dll files yet again, installing unessessarp ‘service patches’ that break the system, installing .dat files and file updates as well as a bunch of uneeded expensive software like an av or something to keep xp ‘clean,’ all the while XP is so damn unstable! At least Linux is secure, easy to use, have choices to what you want and yes is stable!
Linux is amazing as long as its running in console mode…you start KDE and you are inviting troubles…you use GNOME and it will give for sure make you waste many hours of your life due to its slowness.
Bullshit. Try XP’s GUI you have to wait for ever just for the start menu tp pop up never mind openning up a program and thats an OEM version STILL on display!
Obviously I have no such problem with KDE and i’m running 3.1 with the 2.4 kernel.
Arguably, a Linux desktop can be made more secure than an XP desktop, if the user knows what he’s doing. That’s a significant caveat.
Where is the caveat? The good thing is, GNU/linux can be made “more” secure than XP even if the user does not know what he is doing, so to speak. That is because most distributions nowadays have fewer network services running on default (“open ports”). That on its own reduces the risk. Then an inexperienced user will probably use a normal user account instead of a root or administrator account more often on GNU/linux systems than on windows. Then windows security relevant exploits are more prevalent on the internet. Then diversity of GNU/linux installations will reduce the number of impacted systems.
And then, the likelyhood that someone using GNU/linux will get interested in computer systems security is higher than for someone staying with windows…
Windows users can buy a hardware or software firewall and be reasonably confident. Linux users can’t do that
Of course they can. Why should they not? Actually quite a lot stand-alone firewalls employ linux!
They have to relay on canned firewall scripts or write their own. In the first instance. if the user is qualified to judge the effectiveness of the code in a canned firewall, he might as well write hs own. In the second instance, I suspect many homebrew Linux firewalls are written by users who really ought not to trust their own code.
The fact is, for some proprietary firewall products for windows the user can not even judge the code, because the code is not available to him!
Also, there are good howtos to set up a firewall available.
Distributions targetting the desktop market need to install and activate a good software firewall by default.
I do not think a desktop should be bothered with running a firewall. A firewall belongs to the gateways into external networks (i.e. the internet).
>> “I do not think a desktop should be bothered with running a firewall. A firewall belongs to the gateways into external networks (i.e. the internet).
”
Huh? You expect people to buy a second computer just to use as a firewall? Nuts. No one except geeks who like to play with computers will do that.
Or, maybe you espect ISP’s to run firewalls for their customers? Dream on….
The point is this: consumers want to buy computers that don’t allow people to steal their credit card numbers, their address books, or to generate spam. The easy to do this is just build it in the OS by default, not by expecting people to learn about firewalls and other security issues, and not by making absurd claims about either Linux or Windows.
I have now come to the conclusion that blatant fanboyism is bad. It is such a poor substitute for logical discourse.
“Windows vs. Linux”
“KDE vs. GNOME”
“GPL v.s BSD”
“blah, blah, blah…”
For the TRUE NERDS out there in Internet-Land…
Let’s all take a pledge together (raise your left foot as you utter the following to your dog, your goldfish, your spouse, your OmniBot etc.):
“We pledge to restrain our rampant fanboyism, so that we may advance the state of the art in desktop computing through honest and civil discourse, which will aim to enlighten and not to antagonize. No operating system, license, programming language, CPU, or desktop environment is perfect, each has its own strengths and weaknesses. I shall be content if I can find a solution that works for me. I shall season my opinions with gracious honey instead of divisive vinegar. I shall think before I type. I shall strive to be as accurate and as considerate as possible.
Failure to adhere to this pledge shall result in my being labelled as a “Wannabe Fanboy” as well as receiving the requisite (and deserved) sneers of derision from my peers. Thus, if I fail, I shall don the Digital Dunce Cap of Discipline(TM) until I learn the difference between a constructive comment and digi-vomit such as ‘my bits are vastly superior to your bits’.”
Practicing to be a lawyer? You’re twisting my words:
No need for word twisting. I just don’t buy your over old FUD!
1. What is an “idiot GUI” and how does ti bear on this discussion? You don’t like all GUI’s, or just some of them? Besides, I don’t know about your experience. All I know is my own experience, which tells me that a properly configured XP machine is as stable as a properly configured Linux machine. That is, they’re both stable.
An idiot GUI is the deafult for winXP. Even if you can change it, the fact is KDE and Gnome are more profesionaly put to gether bringing about ease of use. As for the stability thing, well that is your own opinion. My opinion has been different. I’ve seen OEM XP’s crash. I’ve seen win2k3 suffer the same exploits and infecttions that the first NT had gone through.
2. I said Windows users need to buy a firewall. I didn’t say the current XP firewall was good enough. I’ve used Norton and ZoneAlarm and they’ve never caused a BSOD. In fact, I’ve never seen a BSOD using XP, period.
Well like I have stated I have! I’ve seen someone install zonealarm only to go through a required reboot then bam BSOD! I’ve seen Norten and other comersial firewalls do the same thing, pluse I’ve seen them slow the whole machine down. Heck you might as well be infected, it wouldn’t make much difference.
3. How to avoid IE and Outlook? Use Mozilla, Firefox, Thunderbird, Opera, etc. Set them as your default applications.
IE and Outlook are STILL on the system!
4. “Unknown” = downloading and running binaries offered on the web by complete strangers. This seems to be a favorite activity of a lot of people, judging from all the noise about apt, yum, kazaa, etc. If you don’t pay attention to what you put on your machine, you deserve what you get.
*sigh* balming the end user again! Boring!
5. If you know people who had to take their PC in for “repair” because of spyware, you know people who don’t know how to use there computer.
Oh please, here you are using the same exuses over and over. I can definnatly say the same thing about you! Its not the peoples fault that a virus can exploit a hole by the current OS which was supposed to be patched.
M$ windows has an auto patch system. If it was patched it wouldn’t of gotten infected. The truth is that most viruses and trojans no longer need user intervention.
6. You’re assuming that every Linux distribution comes with a firewall. That’s wrong.
Prove it please!
Some do, some don’t.
Most if not all DO!
In any case, just how many Linux users have the technical competence to understand how that firewall works and if it is really effective? A small minority, I suspect. If you know how to stop services in Linux,
Horse Shit! All one has to do is go to the control panal and click on services. Then check off which services you need and which ones you don’t. Even in the installation process you have total control of what goes into your machine. With M$ it blindly installes services and then tells you that it cannot function without them.
it’s easy. If you know how to stop services in XP, it’s easy.
Ya sure it is. You check off a service, but wait now WMP9, JAVA, even the registry itself borks up then BSOD!
So much for ‘easy!’
THe key point is knowing what services are in the first place and why you might want to turn them off.
ok so how do you turn off port 139! which should NOT be there in the first place!
Companies selling operating systems to general consumers — Linux or Windows — should not assume that their customers will know about firewalls or services. They should just enable the firewall by default and run minimal services by default.
Which they do, so what are you blabering about?
Windows does not do this and I am not aware of any Linux distribution that does it.
Let me make you aware. Fedore, RH8/7.2 or even older, SuSE, slack, mandrake heck I could go on and on….
If Linux had 95 percent of the market instead of Windows, the media would be full of stories about attacks on hapless unprotected Linux desktops
And we finnish off with the biggest bullshit of all. Nope that won’t happen, why because Linux IS NOT m$ Windows!!!!
What total bull!
With which firewall, specifically? I use Sygate personally. If a program attempts to access the Internet, it’ll ask my permission first, so only programs I specify can access the Internet. If that’s not setting things up properly, then I don’t know what is.
Thats the problem right there. You have to purchase a good fire wall just to resive proper protection. On top of that installing such firewall will make you take a hit on your performance, by eather slowing the machine down or BSOD.
No thanks, i’ll stick to the insdustry proven standard that works! iptables!!!
Anyway, even if what you say is true and I’m not setting something up ‘properly’ that causes the firewall to freak out the OS, if a program is going to do that much damage your machine by what it sends out, then why the hell would you install something like that to begin with?
Good question. Why install a firewall. You might as well take your chances with an infection and reinstall every 6 months, sure its a lot of work but at least your machine will run.
This is where the common sense thing comes in. Again, spyware doesn’t even come into play here, so long as you take proper percautions before installing something.
It does if they use an activex script to initialize IE then install the spyware on that target machine.
(And again, don’t use Internet Explorer – that’s The Golden Rule.
But its still on there so it makes no difference!
Since I’m not particularly interested in any GNOME vs KDE, OSS vs closed Source or whatever flamewar I’ll just pop in a note for the one or two KDE users (users, fanboys, whatever…) who are still reading this:
Theres a little paper I wrote about some issues with Konqueror (the file manager) that seem to bother many people but haven’t been adressed yet – probably due to lack of a unified voice kindly asking for these changes.
Of course there are bug-reports and there is the option to “just fix it yourself” but since I can’t simply do that and bug-reports are there (partially for a very long time) I wondered if there weren’t more users who’d like those changes but just don’t really know about bugs.kde.org.
So if you’re interested please have a look:
http://www.deadhand.com/kde
If you think I’m gone completely insane talking about such stuff instead of going out and acquireing some decent C++ skills or think I’ve got some valid points (heh who knows…) please leave some feedback and vote for the bugs
I hope this is not considered an abuse of the comments section but I think its much more likely to stay here than on the OSN main page or something like that
I’m not going to say that Linux doesn’t have it’s problems, but it’s silly to say that Windows “just works” for people. A couple of weeks ago, I spent several hours cleaning out spyware from somebody’s machine, and also from the two machines at home my parents use. My mom’s XP machine is so borked that I’m going to have to wipe it clean and reinstall. About a month ago, I spent the better part of a saturday trying to get my dad’s machine to see a USB WLAN dongle, and Windows XP’s braindead driver install mechanism made it impossible. I had to go buy another one in the end.
I’ve seen a lot of “real world” Windows machines, and most of them are infested with spyware and viruses. Sure, you 1337 Windows “power users” will say that these people should know how to take better care of their computers, but the simple fact remains that most people do not know how to do this. In my experience, a properly configured Linux machine is both easier to set up initially (you don’t have to spend a lot of time installing third party stuff like Winzip, etc) and will take more abuse from a minimally clueful user. Taking care of the machine (a job us computer-types always get stuck with!) is also simpler because it can often be done remotely.
>> “I do not think a desktop should be bothered with running a firewall. A firewall belongs to the gateways into external networks (i.e. the internet).
”
Huh? You expect people to buy a second computer just to use as a firewall? Nuts. No one except geeks who like to play with computers will do that.
There are so many unused, because for normal desktop use considered to slow/to old PCs which can easily serve as an internet gateway. Instead of dumping them, filling the waste sites, they could do useful services. Besides that, most computers are used in small networks, where a dedicated gateway exists anyway.
—
I think the idea of running an additional program which controls network access on the same computer as the client programs is not a good one. The same sort of exploits which can lead to virus infections, spreading of worms or compromising sensitive data (i.e. gaining access to it) can be used to knock of such a “firewall”. That is not possible if the firewall is running on a separated machine. And the same system interfaces which enable a program to manage network traffic of other processes can be misused by malicious software. This functionality / these capabilities should in my opinion be part of the operating system kernel – or at least it should be clear that one should not meddle with that in every day use.
And these “personal firewalls” create the impression that all you need to obtain a secure system is to install another software. Buy some software and you are done?? I don’t think so. You really have to think a bit about your situation in order to take the appropriate measures.
Very good points, hope they’ll be fixed soon.
Another little issue I have with KDE is the file selector: the rightclick-menu of the items in the filelist box should include “Open” just like Windows does. It’s a very useful option IMHO.
-=Solaris.M.K.A=-
Thats the problem right there. You have to purchase a good fire wall just to resive proper protection
The firewall I just described to you is free.
On top of that installing such firewall will make you take a hit on your performance, by eather slowing the machine down or BSOD.
Well, I’ve seen a Linux system (Mandrake 9.x) who’s screen would go complety blank and the system unresponsive just by firing up a game in X. So in other words, what’s your point?
> (And again, don’t use Internet Explorer – that’s The Golden Rule.
But its still on there so it makes no difference!
Can you point me to ANY Internet Explorer-specific exploit that can infect a system if the user is not actively using IE?
Rayiner Hashem
I’ve seen a lot of “real world” Windows machines, and most of them are infested with spyware and viruses.
Agreed. I’m not here to argue that Windows is secure out of the box, because it just isn’t. But then you have these dumbasses like -=Solaris.M.K.A=- who think that securing a Windows system and running it stable just can’t be done. But I’m here to say that not only is it psosible, it’s actually pretty trivial to do so.
Sure, you 1337 Windows “power users” will say that these people should know how to take better care of their computers, but the simple fact remains that most people do not know how to do this.
Well, it’s kind of like configuring a Linux system that way. Perplexing at first, but braindead easy once you learn how to do it. I’ve taught a complete novice how to do this in Windows. If I had all the knowledge required, I’m pretty sure I could do the same for Linux as well.
n my experience, a properly configured Linux machine is both easier to set up initially (you don’t have to spend a lot of time installing third party stuff like Winzip, etc) and will take more abuse from a minimally clueful user.
The key here is properly configured.
Taking care of the machine (a job us computer-types always get stuck with!) is also simpler because it can often be done remotely.
And who’s going to do it remotely, certainly not Joe Sixpack?
http://www.globeandmail.com works fine in Konqueror here. Using 3.2.3 (Mandrake packages).
Windows users can buy a hardware or software firewall and be reasonably confident. Linux users can’t do that.
Linux users can’t buy hardware firewalls? Why not?
They have to relay on canned firewall scripts or write their own.
Er…There are quite a few software firewalls available for Linux, and they have GUI admin tools available. As far as iptables (the built-in firewall) is concerned, it can easily be configured with Firestarter:
http://firestarter.sourceforge.net/
Windows Xp beats KDE 3.2.3, and it beats gnome 2.6.1 and even fluxbox. No fragments or ghosts or the screen where the movie is played does not lag behind the widgets.
Desktop double-buffering is coming soon to the X server.
Personally, I’ve found Mplayer (with the kmplayer front-end) to offer better performance than the monstrosity that is Windows Media Player on an Athlon 900. Also, the UI is better as there are less useless widgets, IMO.
Finally, you can play more different file formats with Mplayer/Xine than you can with WMP. Linux wins on performance, UI and compatibility.
So, you can wiggle your Media Player around with less redraws? Big deal. When do you ever wiggle your media player around when watching a movie?
I agree with HelloWorld82: how did this become yet another “Windows is better than Linux” thread? Can’t the wintrolls take a break once in a while?
In fact, I’ve never seen a BSOD using XP, period.
BSODs are disabled by default with XP. The systems does a spontaneous reboot instead. So if you’ve had a spontaneous reboot it’s likely that you’ve encountered a BSOD.
You’re assuming that every Linux distribution comes with a firewall. That’s wrong. Some do, some don’t.
All major Linux distributions come with iptables.
Windows did “put” port 139 on your machine. It’s part of the underlying architecture. Do you think port 139 goes away when you run Linux? It’s still there along with all the other ports and they’re all open unless someone closes them.
Wrong. A port is “open” if a service using it is running. It is “closed” if no services are using it. It is “hidden” (or in “stealth” mode) if you’re using a firewall to hide it.
The problem is that Windows does in fact have a service running on port 139 by default (not sure about XP), which represents a huge security risk.
If you want to learn more about how ports work, check out Steve Gibson’s ShieldsUp! web utility:
https://grc.com/x/ne.dll?bh0bkyd2
gotta love osnews. the discussion is NEVER about the article.
wintrolls: cmon guys, face it. windows is not as secure as linux. it just isnt. thats not to say it cant be secure enough to use on the internet, but most people who use windows dont know what they are doing, and end up as spam bots flooding my inbox. windows sacrifices security for ease of use. up until the advent of broadband connections, thats perfectly acceptable for a desktop os. now, things are a bit different, but to their benefit microsoft has taken great strides recently to fix the problems with security in windows.
lintrolls: cmon guys, linux isnt a magic panacea. there are plenty of exploits out there, and it requires a compitent admin to keep a linux box airtight. and taking pot shots at IE or WMP is just low. they are crappy apps that noone in their right mind uses. first thing i do after installing windows is follow it up with installing firefox and bsplayer, firefox being the same browser i use in linux and bsplayer (with a few additional codecs) is just as nice as totem or mplayer.
i love linux, but not because i hate windows, more because i love playing and tinkering with computers, and linux offers an endless amount of learning, all the way up to reading the source code. i love gnome, not because i hate kde, but because im an old time mac user, and i really feel at home in gnome for the first time since my old Mac Classic II took up residence in the closet.
if you like windows, good for you, theres lots to like. why the hell are you argueing its superiority in a discussion on kde? does kde have 90% market share? is windows the desktop os with something to prove?
now, enough feeding trolls…
i wasnt a big fan of the article, i found it more a gushing over kde features that arnt that impressive unless your already an avid user (which im not). i like to keep up to date on the latest and greatest in kde though, and would really appreciate more solid kde reviews, if anyone feels up to it…
>>”There are quite a few software firewalls available for Linux, and they have GUI admin tools available. As far as iptables (the built-in firewall) is concerned, it can easily be configured with Firestarter…
A software firewall with a GUI is a canned firewall, e.g., Firestarter, which includes, like most of these products, a canned firewall script.
Iptables is not a firewall.
>>?“BSODs are disabled by default with XP. The systems does a spontaneous reboot instead. So if you’ve had a spontaneous reboot it’s likely that you’ve encountered a BSOD.
OK. Make that no spontaneous reboots.
>>”All major Linux distributions come with iptables.?
True, but, as I said, iptables is not a firewall. Without a firewall that makes use of it, iptables isn’t protecting you from anything.
>>”A port is “open” if a service using it is running. It is “closed” if no services are using it. It is “hidden” (or in “stealth” mode) if you’re using a firewall to hide it. ”
Still wrong. I didn’t say anything about the state of the port. I said ports are part of the underlying PC architecture. They exist regardless of the OS that’s on tghe machine. How an OS treats them is a different issues.
Windows uses Port 139, and others, to implement File and Printer Sharing via Netbios bound to tcp/ip. You don’t need this on a standalone desktop machine. I never install it; I only install the tcp/ip chunk of Windows networking component. It’s an option that stares you in the face during the install.
Speaking for this poster, I never asserted the superiority of one OS over another. I simply attempted to highlight and correct some of the inaccuracies contained in other posts.
Sadly, any posts that are not 100% pure Linux propaganda bring out the adolescent fanboys. These guys don’t have a clue about presenting facts and evidence, but they sure know how to stomp their feet. But, then, that’s about all you can do when you don’t know what you’re talking about.
It’s not trolling to say that the KDE UI is better than Windows XP. Disregarding any other aspects of “Windows vs. Linux”, I happen to agree with this. Konqueror is a better file and web browser than Windows/Internet Explorer, and the whole kparts integration thing makes the KDE desktop very powerful. Also, customizing a KDE desktop is a breeze.
So one can in fact say that KDE has a better UI than WinXP – and stay on-topic.
A software firewall with a GUI is a canned firewall, e.g., Firestarter, which includes, like most of these products, a canned firewall script.
Iptables is not a firewall.
You’re playing a bit on words here. Iptables is used to build firewalls, which are sets of rules. My Mandrake system includes a “firewall” but this is just a front-end to set up iptables script.
Nitpicking aside, what’s wrong with iptables (configured, for example, with Firestarter) so that Linux users shouldn’t be confident with it? I’ve tested many portscanners on my firewall machine, and the results are the same as if I used ZoneAlarm or another software firewalls.
I smell FUD. Why wouldn’t I trust iptables configured through Firestarter as much as I would ZoneAlarm?
And why can’t Linux users use hardware firewalls? You still haven’t clarified this point.
Distributions targetting the desktop market need to install and activate a good software firewall by default.
Mandrake does. I don’t know about other distros, but that doesn’t seem to be much of an issue, unless you have some links to back up your allegations that Linux is somehow deficient in that area.
I didn’t say anything about the state of the port. I said ports are part of the underlying PC architecture.
Actually, you did specifically mention the state of the ports:
“Do you think port 139 goes away when you run Linux? It’s still there along with all the other ports and they’re all open unless someone closes them.”
I pointed out that a port is not considered open unless a service uses it.
Maybe you didn’t mean what you wrote, but you did specifically state that ports are open until they are closed, while in fact it’s the reverse.
True, but, as I said, iptables is not a firewall. Without a firewall that makes use of it, iptables isn’t protecting you from anything.
All right, then, let me rephrase it: most distributions come with firewall scripts that use iptables.
Now, what does this have to do with KDE? You complain about Linux fanboys, but you’re just as bad.
Here’s something related to the topic.
How do you get the file browser to show both thumbnail, and regular, the WMF format?
http://www.companionsoftware.com/PR/WMRC/WindowsMetafileFaq.html
I really miss it.
One may say that it is now built into a more generic
tool but the point is that it doesn’t work that nice
now as it used to.
🙁
1. No FUD. I didn’t say iptables wasn’t effective or trustworthy. I said it isn’t a firewall, in response to claims in this thread asserting that every Linux distribution has a firewall because they have iptables. That’s accurate.
2. Firestarter is a fine tool. I use it. But, it is a canned firewall: It automatically generates a firewall script during the initial installation. Unless a desktop user is proficient in the use of iptables (and the vast majority will never be) they will never tweak that script manually. In fact, most won’t know that it exists. (That’s a good thing.)
3. It has little to do with KDE. I just get annoyed with the constant “either/or” attitudes expressed about things. People on both sides of the Linux/Windows divide seemingly presume that their favorite OS is perfect and that anyone who suggests otherwise is, at the very least, ignorant. Neither Linux or Windows is perfect. People who want Linux to become more successful shouldn’t attack people who offer constructive criticism designed to make it more successful.
3. Good for Mandrake for turning on a firewall by default. I didn’t say Linux was “deficient”, I said Linux distributions targetting the desktop market, i.e., the home Windows market, ought to turn on a firewall by default. In my own experience over the last 10 years using a wqide variety of distributions, only a few very recent distributions do that. It is a bit hypocritical of Linux enthusiasts to attack Windows, justifiably, for not turnong on the firewall when it is not a common Linux practice, either. The notion that Linux, like a traditional Unix, should leave things like firewalls to the machine’s administrator to implement doesn’t apply to the desktop market.
One of the reasons that I don’t use KDE…
…qt’s i17n support is not good as gtk+ is.
however…i don’t use gnome anymore. i settled down with xfce + rox, and happy with it. (except one problem that rox pinboard and xf4desktop conflicts…)
“Better than Windows XP
“By Andrew (IP: —.fbx.proxad.net) – Posted on 2004-06-26 17:17:46
In fact, a better GUI than anything else I have seen yet, production or prototype.
”
Yeah right. And WindowsXP’s gui crashes out all the time too. I’m so tired of the Linux fanboys its sickening. I love the idea of linux but no way you can tell me it has the plug and play, stablility, directx9, etc that XP has. If all I needed was a notepad, email, mp3 and a browser maybe.”
I have Plug N Play Printer (Hp PhotoSmart 7350), Scanner (Canon Lide 30), TFT Monitor, I run Battlefield Vietnam, Max Payne 2, Unreal 2004… which all require either DirectX 8 or 9. I dont have to install any drivers for my graphicis card its Nvidia, My Trust digi camera works without any drivers and I can save my pictures and manipulate then as I wish using Gimp2. I read Microsoft Word Docs, PowerePoint, Excel… I can edit them and send them back in the same format using Start Office 7 – Oh and yes I read my mail which is connected to an exchange server using the Xaim Connetor, and listen to MP3’s, Browse the Net and watch commercial DVD’s – All on my Linux OS. This to me is a fully functional Operating System.
Now I am not going to get into a “my OS is better than your OS” conversation, all I am doing is pointing out that Linux has moved on and so has Windows. The reason for my post is to put some balance in to this thread.
I dont have to recompile my kernel – I dont even know how! and I dont patch my OS. I use Linspire4.5 as my main OS at home.
I agree MS has it place in the Desktop world but so do other OSes and to bash one over the other without putting your requirements forward to see if they are meet is short sighted.
I also agree that MS does some functionality that Linux/Unix/Mac/Inset other types of OS you whish here, better than those mentioned, but the line between them all is getting more and more fuzzy.
MS isnt the ONLY OS and NEITHER is LINUX – which is a very good thing for us the customer because it is driving prices down on all formats (Windows is now selling at a reduced price in many Asian countries and Commercial Linux OSes are now being punted out free of charge SuSe9.1, Xandros 2.0….) So I do like that fact that this is happening.
Now to get back on topic, I like the new version of KDE 3.3 it’s not a big leap forward from 3.2. As this product matures over then next few years it will be a very nice tool to use. The speed of opening applications has always been a bit of a cripe with me, but as this is being worked on, then this will soon be a thing of the past – I have to say that I have never used Gnome and I really need to just so I can see what the differences are.
All for now
I’m really not a loyal KDE or GNOME user. I love both, one at a time. I was on KDE 3.2 until gnome 2.6 came out. I’ll be on KDE 3.3 until gnome 2.8 comes out. They are both great DE. Kde 3.3 seems to be great so far. I like the “simplier is better” from gnome, but I can get KDE to be really simple looking in a couple of minutes too.
But I have one question for those kde 3.3 alpha users; can konqueror log into netscape’s webmail? Last time I checked it couldn’t, it was a fresh KDE 3.2, I didn’t tried the other releases. How about the overall performance? any improvements? KDE 3.2 was a lot faster than 3.1, and I hope it continues to get faster.
Yanik
It’s not trolling to say that the KDE UI is better than Windows XP. Disregarding any other aspects of “Windows vs. Linux” ….
Yeeeeeaaaaahhh …. see, that’s where your logic is flawed, by trying to strip KDE from its *nix underpinnings in order to make your case – you can’t do that. As an example, if I told you that my house was nicer than yours was, assuming it was located in downtown Compton, that kind of decreases the value of it, doesn’t it? Now, I’m not in any way saying that using Linux is just as unpleasent as living in Compton might be, but you get the idea. The GUI and DE might be nice, but you must also consider what it runs on top of and what it has to cooperate with (other DEs).
Konqueror is a better file and web browser than Windows/Internet Explorer
Here is another flaw in the logic of many Linux pundets – refusing to consider any apps in Windows for comparison except for what’s included with the OS. You probably don’t know this, but there are file managers availble for Windows that are more powerful than both Konquerer and Windows Explorer. Sure, you might have to pay for them, but if you want a free ride at the cost of inferior apps, that’s what Linux is for.
I think you don’t get it. Of course he can strip KDE from its *nix underpinning. We’re not talking about the value of the house here, that’s another story, we’re talking about the house itself. Where ever it is located, a nice house remains a nice house to any architecture lover. It’s like OSX, I for myself think they have the best UI possible. I don’t use MACs for various reasons, but I’m not a shame of praising their UI.
As for “but if you want a free ride at the cost of inferior apps, that’s what Linux is for. ” that’s just trolling mate.
Yanik
Here is an example of one of the IE vulnerabilities that can effect your machine without using IE as your browser (I picked a recent one). Sorry, couldn’t resist taking part in the inane flame-war. There is an on-topic post beneath the text regarding the vulnerability.
Cumulative Patch for Internet Explorer (822925)
A number of security issues have been identified in Microsoft® Internet Explorer that could allow an attacker to compromise a Microsoft Windows®-based system and then take a variety of actions. For example, an attacker could run programs on a computer used to view the attacker’s Web site. This vulnerability affects computers that have Internet Explorer installed. (You do not have to be using Internet Explorer as your Web browser to be affected by this issue.) You can help protect your computer by installing this update from Microsoft.
Note Windows and Internet Explorer share components. You should apply this update if you have Internet Explorer 5.01 or later. Earlier versions are not supported and may or may not be affected. Users with earlier versions are strongly encouraged to upgrade
Who should read this bulletin: Customers using Microsoft® Internet Explorer.
Impact of vulnerability: Two new vulnerabilities, the most serious of which could enable an attacker to run arbitrary code on a user’s system if the user either browsed to a hostile Web site or opened a specially crafted HTML-based email message.
Maximum Severity Rating: Critical
Recommendation: System administrators should install the patch immediately.
Affected Software:
Microsoft Internet Explorer 5.01
Microsoft Internet Explorer 5.5
Microsoft Internet Explorer 6.0
Microsoft Internet Explorer 6.0 for Windows Server 2003
Download Cumulative Patch: All version except IE 6.0 for Windows Server 2003 || IE 6.0 for Windows Server 2003
View: Microsoft Security Bulletin MS03-032
View: Microsoft KB Article – 822925
As far as the article is concerned, it looks like a point release should: there is a bit of added functionality (although not much) and the rest of the release seems to be directed at bug-fixes. Bug fixes make me happy 🙂
Yank
I think you don’t get it. Of course he can strip KDE from its *nix underpinning. We’re not talking about the value of the house here, that’s another story, we’re talking about the house itself.
The house, meaning the KDE GUI? That is not what was originally stated (and what originally drew the attention of several Windows users). If you make the blanket statement ‘KDE is better than Windows XP’, you gotta take into consideration more than just the GUI. I will readily admit that the GUI in KDE is pretty slick (although I like Gnome’s better), but I wouldn’t say the same thing about Konqueror. I haven’t played with it in current versions of KDE 3.2, so I can’t pass judgement. But from past experiences in 3.1x, Konquerer (the file manager) was too slow to be usable, IMHO. The browser was alright, but I’d rather use something with Gecko under the hood.
As for “but if you want a free ride at the cost of inferior apps, that’s what Linux is for. ” that’s just trolling mate.
I don’t think it is, especially when you refuse to compare Konquerer with anything but Windows Explorer. Compare the file manager part of it feature-for-feature with Directory Opus and see how well it fares.
Flatline
Here is an example of one of the IE vulnerabilities that can effect your machine without using IE as your browser
Nice try, but according to what you just posted:
Who should read this bulletin: Customers using Microsoft® Internet Explorer.
Impact of vulnerability: Two new vulnerabilities, the most serious of which could enable an attacker to run arbitrary code on a user’s system if the user either browsed to a hostile Web site or opened a specially crafted HTML-based email message.
If you’re viewing an email message that uses IE for HTML-rendering, you’re still technically using IE.
Perhaps you missed this line in the Microsoft advisory:
This vulnerability affects computers that have Internet Explorer installed. (You do not have to be using Internet Explorer as your Web browser to be affected by this issue.)
I want Konqueror to die, go away…
“Get thee off my PC foul Demon of bastardized file browsing and random internet usage!!!!!!”
I want the KDE widgets and prettys, without the bloated filemanager that takes 2 weeks to load and goes apeshit everytime I try to browse my machine (I’m pretty sure its looking for the floppy drive I never had, and I have removed it from the default sys config). It also takes FOREVER to browse a simpple directory sometimes.
Can I just have a nice UI please? Let someone else make a nice File manager… you guys are botching it for me.
I have firefox for the internet (and I really would like to know a way that KDE would use it instead of that damned Konqueror when I click one of the pretty links in the control panel). I’m still looking for a decent file manager to upgrade from midnight commander. MC is just awesome, but having something in a themable window would be great.
Any Suggestions?
Yeeeeeaaaaahhh …. see, that’s where your logic is flawed, by trying to strip KDE from its *nix underpinnings in order to make your case
I know you’re just looking for a fight and all, but I’m not trying to “make a case”. I’m just arguing that one can indeed say that KDE has a nicer UI than WinXP, and that this does not constitute trolling. This has nothing to do with the UI’s underpinning.
But, as I said, you’re just arguing for arguing’s sake.
Here is another flaw in the logic of many Linux pundets – refusing to consider any apps in Windows for comparison except for what’s included with the OS.
Well, we’re comparing the UIs of a basic system here, not the entire gamut of applications available for either systems.
Again, arguing for argument’s sake. What are you trying to prove, exactly?
You probably don’t know this, but there are file managers availble for Windows that are more powerful than both Konquerer and Windows Explorer.
I do know this. You’ve mentioned them a couple of times in the past, if I’m not mistaken.
Sure, you might have to pay for them, but if you want a free ride at the cost of inferior apps, that’s what Linux is for.
I don’t agree with the “inferior apps” jab. First, I’m not sure the apps you refer to have all of Konq’s functionalities, and I don’t know if the ones they have that Konq lacks are all that useful.
In any case, Konqueror happens to suit my needs perfectly, so it is not an inferior app. It is an extremely powerful browser/file manager/ftp client/ssh client with integrated media player/viewer and terminal.
And the fact that it’s free, both as in beer and as in speech, gives it a definite advantage over other solutions. Especially for cash-strapped individuals and corporations, here and in the rest of the world.
I don’t think it is, especially when you refuse to compare Konquerer with anything but Windows Explorer. Compare the file manager part of it feature-for-feature with Directory Opus and see how well it fares.
Can Directory Opus handle FISH sessions? Can you browse the web with it (and use a DOM tree viewer)? Does it have Tabs? Does it use mouse gestures? Can it handles other types of archives than zip files? Can it have more than just two split views? Does it have a “Lock’n’Link” feature? Can you automatically generate HTML image galleries with it? Are there visual directory plugins like filelight and fsview?
Directory Opus might have a few features that Konq doesn’t (though I’m not sure which), but overall I think it fares very well against commercial alternatives to Windows Explorer on Windows.
Oh, and for Arakon: since KDE 3.2, there is a performance “preload” option that keeps a copy always loaded in memory (like MS does for Windows Explorer), so it takes less than a second to load. There is also a Midnight Commander view, and KDE shouldn’t lock up looking for your floppy drive (it doesn’t on mine). I suggest that you upgrade to the latest version.
I have firefox for the internet (and I really would like to know a way that KDE would use it instead of that damned Konqueror when I click one of the pretty links in the control panel).
Did you associate your browser with text/html in Control Center->KDE Components->file associations?
I think no application depends on Konqueror being installed.