This morning at WWDC Steve Jobs introduced three new Apple Cinema displays. The new 20, 23 and 30-inch displays will use the standard DVI connection instead of Apple’s proprietary ADC connection. The 30 inch display, which can run at a resolution up to 2560×1600, will require a special dual link Nvidia card. To read more about what’s new at WWDC, head over to MacCentral.
that OS will rock more than Panther.
the new search system sounds like it might be similar to what MS is doing in WinFS, I hope it lets one store a Query as a virtual file sort of like smart play lists, that will make organization of documents and files very easy,
it now is 100% GPU. does that mean that QE will be entirely done in the GPU as well?
I don’t expect Apple the to open up the hardware, or port OSX to x86, but would it really be that much to ask for them to build a low end system (e.g emac) that does not have a build in monitor?
Gateway builds similar all-in-one x86 machines and how many people reading this are using one of those?
Hmm…this must be part of what Apple was talking about with Redmond copying features. Longhorn is suppossed to do all core video functions on the GPU as well.
Along comes Tiger and steals their thunder. Cool.
but would it really be that much to ask for them to build a low end system (e.g emac) that does not have a build in monitor?
If you are asking technically — no. If you are asking as plea for them to do that, then yes. There is NO reason for them to do that. They already have plenty of hardware choices over the past years to suit almost all consumers.
I’m at WWDC right now, and all the dashboard stuff is real..
> They already have plenty of hardware choices over the past years to suit almost all consumers.
Except a low end box for comsumers who already have a good display, as the original poster said.
I really wasn’t interested in Apple until I heard of OSX at the moment though I’m impressed with the development of hardware and software. Next computer I buy will either be a powerbook or a G5.
Uh… please, REVIEW THE PAST FEW YEARS, and then tell me you can’t buy a low-end headless machine. G3 anyone? Those are great machines in their final years.
“Hmm…this must be part of what Apple was talking about with Redmond copying features. Longhorn is suppossed to do all core video functions on the GPU as well.”
ms announced these features in longhorn long ago, so apple is actually following ms lead.
and wont you just love offloading work onto those 32mb ati cards in emacs and the nice low end nvidia fx 5200 in g5 towers?
http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/dashboard.html
Clearly the GNAA was right, as if it wasn’t obvious by the slick UI design and new concepts presented. To everyone in this thread: http://osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=7498 let me just say, I told you so…
The new Cinema displays are absolutely beautiful. The 30″ is to die for:
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/704…
This looks like quite an excellent tool (which I also posted a screen shot of on the leaked GNAA screenshot thread):
http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/automator.html
$3800 spare laying around for the display and vid card (plus it only works on 3 very expensive mac models).
“NextVision N3020w, 30″ 1280×768 Silver Wide Screen Dual Tuner with Detachable Speaker LCDTV”
http://store.viewsonic.com/html/ibeCCtpItmDspRte.jsp?section=12711&…
that is only $2399 for 30″ and has better mac support than apples own 30″. though it isnt as high a res, it meets or beats it in most all other regards…including hdtv now and picture in picture as well.
I think Core Image/Video will be as great as the video API in BeOS.. Remember Cortex ..
http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/core.html
I am sure that the new Core video will have a tiered system that will off load as much as it can to the video card based on how much memory the card has.
I want Apple to create smart folders. they have the query capability now with spotlight, how about getting that put into a virtual folder so that when I save my files it will automatically appear in the smart folder I have set up for those type of documents with certain meta data.
“I’m at WWDC right now, and all the dashboard stuff is real..”
I want to know more about the demo app used at the WWDC called Funhouse.
Hmmm… If apple is making all this now…What will they be making when Longhorn is out? hehehehe 🙂
Seriously though, I cannot wait for this to be released! 🙂
I am buying only Apple hardware and software from here on out. Dell/Microsoft just got their *ss handed to them on a plate. I don’t see anybody coming close to what Apple is doing.
The User Name is gone from the finder bar so how is fast user switching done in tiger?
I don’t expect Apple the to open up the hardware, or port OSX to x86, but would it really be that much to ask for them to build a low end system (e.g emac) that does not have a build in monitor?
This question is so common and so dumb that it almost qualifies as a troll were it not for the naivite of the poster. Apple is a company. As a company they need to make money, buy low sell high, that kind of stuff. Apple is a hardware company, that means they make their money from selling hardware.
They are not in the commodity game like Dell (ie. small margins on large number of units). Well in any buisness model increasing the number of customers will make you more money, but in the commodity market the other method is too cut corners to save cost and raise the margin per unit. Thats why Dells are not stellar quality (my case is flimsy plastic and doesn’t feel solid like even a beige box does it better. Also if you look on the inside of a Dell you’ll notice it is designed to assembled quickly to save labour costs.
Now, there is the other buisness which is luxury items. Which are low volume high margin. Hear the way to make more money is too add more features to raise the price by raising the percieved value of the product and make huge profits on a few units. For example adding a USB ports lets say costs $1 each. They will add 4 USB ports and then tack on another $35 to the price of the computers since theysave you the cost of buying a $45 PCI card.
Apple like any company has overhead to cover, if they cannot cover the overhead they lose money and go bankrupt. Therefore Apple NEEDS to make the money to stay a float. They way they do this is buy keep their margins high. They keep raising the price high by adding things that you are willing to pay more for than what they are going to cost to make. For example people say they are willing to pay more for an Apple since it is well designed. Well someone could say “I don’t give a fuck about design” knock $75 off the cost– but that design cost maybe $2 (which means dick all for Apple but would add up over Dell’s volumes). Well they need that $75 to keep a float (also for R&D and shareholders). So Apple could take out the monitor off the eMac, but then they could take off maybe $15 off the cost. The point is that Apple can remove features… but the price needs to stay the same (minus the insignifcant hardware cost) to keep afloat. *BUT* the value would appear worse. $800 for a complete computer versus $785 for a complete computer minus monitor (note I’m not saying you could BUY a monitor for $15, since monitor companies are in the same situation with regards to overhead stockholders etc).
This is why you will never see a cheap Mac. You may think that’d make more money selling it to more people… but thats only true if they could force the econoMac to be sold *ONLY* to people who would never otherwise buy a Mac. Otherwise they would start cutting into the money they make off of people who would rather a cheaper Mac but are willing to pay for a more expensive one to have one. The only way the could segregate the market that IK see would be too make the econoMac really shitty (eg cardboard case). Now you might think that would work, except that would affept Apple’s image and hurt their branding (the most important asset to a company in the post-capitalistic market) and thus would also hurt sales of their profit making big boxes.
Feeling gouged then? Well welcome to post-capitalism (capitalism having died with the realization of branding since Smith’s benefits of capitalism only hold rigidly true in a pure commodity market– which has problems of it’s own). Face it.. you don’t think that Apple should offer an econoMac… you just want an econoMac.. or precisely why don’t you say what you want… ‘I want a free Mac’. Well you asking for a free Mac why don’t you jsut ask for a free G5 instead?!? Well, there are many things I want including sex, drugs, and sports cars- but lets not lose reality. Apple does not give a fuck about it’s fans or customers (nor does anyone else). Corporations have no responsibilities except to make money. In fact Apple would be perfectly happy selling only one computer a month if it meant they could sell it for a billion dollars. Millions of disappointed Mac fans? Yes. But the profits would be huge! Remember highschool? “For every $5 increase 2 customers leave… what is the best price-point?”
My prediction about the iPod- if other players force the price down Apple will drop the product rather then make pennies off of it. Oh, and if you think that Apple could storm the desktop with an econoMac… not bloody likely. Beige boxes would still be cheaper and their is the OS barrier where the beer-free Linux can’t penetrate let alone the $150 USD OSX.
Inflammatory? Yes. Condescending? A little. But hopefully this is insightful enough to avoid being modded down into the abyss. Unless this comment is deleted any future posts about econoMacs should be replied to with a link to this post. And yes I’m no giant fan of post-capitalism; but I’ll admit problems with communism and you can’t argue that I’m completely ignorant either.
yes!!! I misread the tiger preview!!! there are smart folders!!!
oh and to the one who said that Apple is copying MS, I beg to differ hear. MS might have been the first to ANNOUNCE a feature of an upcoming yet to be released OS, but Apple was the first to release such a feature and that feature is also more advanced than what the thing MS is touting. since it is released now, that tells you that Apple has been working on this for a while, probably for a few years.
Here’s a quick breakdown of what’s wrong with your post:
1) The 30″ Cinema HD display is $3,299, not $3800.
2) The resolution of the NEC display you linked is 1280×768. The resolution of the 30″ Cinema HD display is 2560×1600, over twice the vertical resolution and twice the horizontal resolution.
3) Compatibility issues? It’s a fucking DVI display genius. It works with anything that provides a DVI signal, but obviously to take advantage of its full 2560×1600 resolution you will need a high end video card capible of supporting such resolutions.
4) The quality of Apple’s Cinema display LCDs is unparalleled.
5) These LCDs are configured with ColorSync, which means for artists and other graphics professionals they don’t have to sit around calibrating their displays.
6) That NEC display is fucking ugly. Sorry. $2399 is not worth it to me for that hideous piece of junk.
Please don’t give us an economics lecture when you don’t even know the difference between Capitalism and a Free Market.
And No, we don’t and never did live in a pure free market, but the goal is to get as close as possible, so we can maximise consumer surplus and remove all suplier surplus.
Hey Genius so you are comparing an LCD TV, with an LCD high res monitor? WTF?
That resolution of 1024/x768 is going to look lovely when running it under a normal windowing system, I assume you enjoy seeing pixel in their full glory.
Trolls these days don’t even really try hard anymore….
sorry the $3299 is for the monitor alone and it only works on 3 mac models made…only g5 towers that start at $2000.
the video card that is needed to power the 30″ apple lcd costs an additional $500 on the $2000 and $2500 g5’s.
that makes for $3800 dollars sherlock.
it is an additional $450 on the $3000 g5. that makes it a $3750 monitor sherlock.
add it up.
$2000, $2500, or $3000 mac
$450 or $500 for nvidia card needed to power the 30″ display.
$3300 for the monitor.
the viewsonic is $2399 and runs with older g3 and g4 based machines and will work with any mac (laptops too) with a dvi connector or adapter. it also can work with a pc if your usage changes. it also works as a stand alone tv if your usage changes.
it does up to 1280×1024 not just 1024×768 (read the specs and stop cursing so much)
it has the same contrast ratio, same ms response time, and same viewing angles as the apple 30″.
it has two tv tuners to offload work from the machine. it does picture in picture, it does hdtv now– not later.
but yes it doesnt do as high a res as the apple 30″. if you dont have the huge sums of money that apple wants for their model or if you dont need that super high res, the viewsonic is a great option.
so if you dont want to spend $2500 to $3500 on a new computer to run your new $3300 30″ apple lcd, look elsewhere.
do you have $5800 to $6800 laying around for your next computer?
Isn’t for a home user, it’s for a graphic artist, and Printer. Some one who actually cares what their display looks like. Someone who cares that what’s displayed on screen will accurately look like what gets printed. Once a color corrected monitor is set, you don’t touch it. Pre-press operators get very picky about true color.
You guys are missing the point with these monitors. They are not geared toward the everyday home user. They are for creative professionals who will pay that much for them as they depend on that kind of quality. So will you guys please shut up about the prices b/c I know I can’t afford one but they were not made with people like me in mind. So stop yapping bout the prices.
LOL
why do you complain that you can’t afford the displays?
look, if you don’t have the money, DON’T BUY. Apple is not forcing you to buy ANYTHING.
well, technically the monitor is 3299, and requires a $599US card, so its really just about 3900..
id take it.
Tiger has 64bit Unix now… witch means the G3 & the G4 linup will not be compatable with the newest OS… or will they?
sorry the $3299 is for the monitor alone and it only works on 3 mac models made…only g5 towers that start at $2000.
the video card that is needed to power the 30″ apple lcd costs an additional $500 on the $2000 and $2500 g5’s.
that makes for $3800 dollars sherlock.
Umm, READ MY FUCKING COMMENT…Here it is, quoted from my original approach:
3) Compatibility issues? It’s a fucking DVI display genius. It works with anything that provides a DVI signal, but obviously to take advantage of its full 2560×1600 resolution you will need a high end video card capible of supporting such resolutions.
So, your NEC display doesn’t need a high end video card because of it’s pathetically low 1280×760 resolution (I personally own two LCDs with higher resolution than that). If you only want to use the Apple display at the maximum resolution of your current video card, you don’t need a video card. It will be perfectly compatible with any DVI display you use it with.
the viewsonic is $2399 and runs with older g3 and g4 based machines and will work with any mac (laptops too) with a dvi connector or adapter.
SO WILL THE CINEMA HD DISPLAY… had you actually bothered reading the technical specifications.
http://www.apple.com/displays/specs.html
it does up to 1280×1024 not just 1024×768 (read the specs)
Thanks for not including the link. Yes, it will compress 1280×1024 to 1280×768. That’s completely worthless.
These two displays are not even in the same ballpark.
Eugenia, can you please mod down these troll’s posts? They are completely without any redeeming merit whatsoever.
Currently waiting on delivery of my G5, now I need to fill a hole in my CC to buy one of those new displays. Oh so sexy! I’ll be getting a 20″. Oh Linux I loved you so much over the last 9 years but sorry you’ll be sitting in terminal.app looking back at me over ssh from now on.
tiger will run on g3’s and g4’s just fine, i would imagine the os will be much like fat binaries.
where does it say it will work with any dvi capable mac sherlock?>>
Because apple has dropped the ADC connector. All new mac monitors are DVI only.
they are comparable monitors. they are both lcds, they are both 30″, they are both very expensive, they both are capable of high res (one more than the other by a large factor but at an extreme price and with steep system requirments)>>
No, they are not comparable — you’re doing the equvalent of comparing a Dell or a Gateway to an SGI.
The ViewSonic is a very nice consumer market LCD. The 30″ Apple monitor, with its insanely high resolution and insanely crisp pixel pitch and steep system requriements is meant for the Professional market, not the average consumer.
—
In the meantime I can’t wait to see what Formac pulls out to answer Apple. They are the one LCD company that even comes close (and even surpasses in a few areas) Apple’s quality.
Hee, hee, I’ve already earned my 30″ Apple display and G5. Thank You!, Apple stock.
Tiger has 64bit Unix now… witch means the G3 & the G4 linup will not be compatable with the newest OS… or will they?
If Solaris is any lesson, Apple will simply ship both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of all system components, and the 64-bit versions will not be installed on 32-bit architectures. This will allow existing 32-bit applications to continue to run, although they will be on top of a fully 64-bit kernel on G5s.
It’s likely many pro applications will simply include both 32-bit and 64-bit builds on the installation media on upcoming versions, and it will choose the appropriate version for your architecture.
I thought there were only 64-bit memory extensions and that the OS itself is not COMPLETELY 64-bit?
or am I wrong? [not sure]
I thought there were only 64-bit memory extensions and that the OS itself is not COMPLETELY 64-bit?
Looking at this page:
http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/unix.html
it seems that Tiger will be no more 64-bit than Panther. A shame…
http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/64bit.html
Yeah, quite a bit of difference there. It seems like a bit of a hack, but it looks like Tiger does have full 64-bit support.
So Apple could take out the monitor off the eMac, but then they could take off maybe $15 off the cost. The point is that Apple can remove features… but the price needs to stay the same (minus the insignifcant hardware cost)
They could take a lot more than $15 off.
The hardware costs are not insignificant, and removing the screen and the electronics to drive it would cut any up to $100 from the final price without them losing margins.
It still wouldn’t be in cheapo x86 land but that’s not the point, it would be a little cheaper but more improtantly wouldn’t have the built in screen.
>>
I want Apple to create smart folders. they have the query capability now with spotlight, how about getting that put into a virtual folder so that when I save my files it will automatically appear in the smart folder I have set up for those type of documents with certain meta data.
<<
Hehehe… It’s amazing that it has taken Apple over 12 years to catch up with OS/2 in this regard (and MS still haven’t got there…)
The entire Macintosh product line is a collection of well-styled high end equipment. What you are asking for is equivalent to asking Porsche to release an economy model to appeal to Saturn owners.
“The entire Macintosh product line is a collection of well-styled high end equipment. What you are asking for is equivalent to asking Porsche to release an economy model to appeal to Saturn owners.”
the imac and emac that cost upwards of $2200 come with at best 1.25ghz g4 cpus and 167mhz system buses. now they may be well styled, but leave the high end comments back with the 30″ display.
apple has an saturn model, it just has the porsche price.
thats not tru and it is so easy to prove that i think you may be a troll trying to undermine apple with your target being those people that for some reason will not check themselves.
i mean, the emac is 799 w/cd-rw and with w/dvd-rw/cd-rw it is 999. their chepest flat screen is 699 for 17 inches (btw – windows looks way better on a mac flat panel like i witnessed a couple of months ago).
when the line is cut off before the 30″ and then has different specs listed, that means the specs before line go with the smaller lcds sherlock.
maybe this will be more clear:
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/713…
“$3,299.00
30-inch (29.7-inch viewable)
2560 x 1600 optimal resolution
16.7 million colors
DVI Display Connector
2 port USB 2.0 Hub
2 FireWire 400 ports
VESA mount compatible
Requires NVIDIA GeForce 6800
Ultra DDL Card”
see where it says it requires the geforce 6800….only available for g5 towers sherlock.
or see this sherlock:
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore?product…
“NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL
The groundbreaking new NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra delivers the industry’s first 16-pipe superscalar architecture and support for the world’s fastest DDR3 memory to raise the bar for 3D graphics performance. The specifications of the GeForce 6800 Ultra GPU, are stunning: Using over 220 million transistors it supports a 256-bit interface for an effective memory bandwidth of 35.2 GB per second which delivers 600 million vertices, 6.4 billion textured pixels per second. The GPU is built on an AGP 8X board and includes 256MB of DDR3 memory for use in the most demanding graphics applications. It is the first card available to support the DVI standard dual link digital signal specification from the two DVI ports it features. This capability is required to drive the new 30-inch LCD, high resolution Apple Cinema HD display. The combination of a GeForce 6800 Ultra with a dual processor Power Mac G5 driving two 30-inch Apple Cinema HD Displays is the definitive tool for the creative professional.
Special note on the NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra: due to size of this advanced graphics card, the adjacent PCI or PCI-X slot will be blocked and cannot be used. This reduces the number of available PCI or PCI-X slots from three to two.”
read it again:
“This capability is required to drive the new 30-inch LCD, high resolution Apple Cinema HD display.”
doesnt say its needed to drive at highest res only sherlock.
its required to have the two dvi ports to drive it all.
and a final link to confirm your ignorance:
http://www.apple.com/displays/digital.html
“Dual Link DVI
The 30-inch Cinema HD Display requires the next level of DVI connectivity — “dual link” to drive the massive amount of pixels to the screen. And the NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL graphics card (available from the Apple Store) delivers, with the most advanced graphics engine available. This card, designed specifically to support the dual link DVI connection, delivers 2560 by 1600 resolution. Even better, it can drive two 30-inch Apple Cinema HD Displays, giving you the ultimate creative canvas. This card will be available for Mac only in August 2004.”
you are so fast to be so sure of yourself and you only make yourself look that much more of a trolling know nothing.
do some research before you go off the deep end again sherlock.
who is the dumbass now?
http://www.viewsonic.com/products/desktopdisplays/lcddisplays/prose…
even higher specs (resolution) than what apple has:
9.2 mega pixel (27.6 million RGB dots)
Ultra-high 204 pixel per inch (PPI) produces stunning picture clarity and photo-like images.
Widescreen 16:10 aspect ratio
Widescreen format allows desktop publishing professionals to display two full pages of text and graphics simultaneously.
5X pixel density LCD display
Advanced high-resolution liquid crystal panel technology boosts pixel density up to five times higher than a normal LCD display for superior picture clarity and perfect focus.
Pure digital interface
Digital interface ensures original data integrity for spectacular, crystal-clear images.
Broad, accurate color gamut
conforms to ITU 709 HDTV color standard accurately reproducing true, vibrant colors.
Powerfully compatible
Compatible with PCs, Macs, Sun and SGI workstations.
Full 22.2″ viewable screen
3840×2400 optimum resolution
235 nits of ultra-high brightness (typ)
400:1 high contrast ratio (typ)
Advanced AGS-1 anti-glare coating
Eliminates glare under almost any ambient lighting.
XtremeView™ performance
Up to 170º viewing angles horizontally and 170º vertically, providing image clarity from all directions.
Liquid View® Software included free
Enlarge desktop icons, fonts and toolbars—even MS application toolbars—up to 200% for easy legibility.
Three-year limited warranty
24/7 free technical and customer support*.
but yes it costs even more too.
and yet again it can be used on pc and mac with relatively normal vid cards and older macs are supported as well with the ati radeon 8500
http://www.viewsonic.com/products/lcd_vp2290bhardware.htm
[snip]
Geek-porn description of View Sonic res monitor. Suh-wheat.
[/snip]
Then “Anonymous sherlock” (my name for him/her) said:
“Three-year limited warranty
24/7 free technical and customer support*.
but yes it costs even more too.”
To which I say: Well, DUH.
And, it is a very nice kick ass 22 inch monitor.
And, I also point out to you that it is under ViewSonic’s Pro Series monitors.
Which is to say that the intended target market is not the average consumer, but is rather the graphics professional. (In reality, the company employing the graphics professional.)
If you think Apple’s 30″ monitor is not priced correctly, vote with your frikkin wallet and don’t buy it, Sherlock. (I bought my Formac because I thought it was a better monitor for $200 less.)
There is only one technical specification that an end user needs to look at before all others; Pixel Response Rate.
If an LCD monitor does not have at least a typical PRR of 16ms in color or less, it’s useless. All other specs for a LCD monitor are made irrelevant if it fails in the PRR.
Its about time Apple catches up with that spec in their new models. Their 30 inch monitor is nice but you will have to sell your 1st born to afford one.
The 400:1 contrast ratio is poor considering the price you will pay. A good LCD should have at least a 500:1 ratio.
Gaming is tertiary for me, but still any user that wants to see all the frames possible as percieved by the human eye(60FPS) on a computer, you need a pixel response of 16ms or less. With desktops going to be hardware accelerated via OpenGL or Direct3D and with each window being drawn in polygons, there is a good chance you may need it.
Can you show me another LCD that’s in the same ballpark as the 30″ Cinema HD
Nearly all of the computer users around the world have no need for a 30″ monitor. Especially at 3900$ including the graphics card.
With LCD monitors with at least 16ms and 500:1 or better contrast in the the 500$’s range and begining to creep into the 400$’s level, the prices for Apple displays are again overkill on the pocketbook. Yes I know Apple’s color tech is tops but its not worth it for most people except for precision graphics artists(a minority).
If you see me nag on Apple, I nag them on their elitest pricing and elitest attitude.
your juvenile rants are very sad.
i guess you simply cannot understand the word “required”
make up what you will but this news posts title has it as does apple’s own words…repeatedly:
“The 30 inch display, which can run at a resolution up to 2560×1600, will require a special dual link Nvidia card”
sorry sherlock we require more than your hysterical denials to prove something different than what apple themselves clearly claims over and over.
the 30″ display “requires” the new $600 video card.
end of story.