Home > Mac OS X > OS X Tiger Seeks Enterprise Adoption OS X Tiger Seeks Enterprise Adoption Eugenia Loli 2004-07-07 Mac OS X 31 Comments Forrester senior analyst Simon Yates told MacNewsWorld that Apple and Microsoft are attempting to offer a multipronged approach to user searches in Tiger & Longhorn, in an attempt simplify finding data. About The Author Eugenia Loli Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker. Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli 31 Comments 2004-07-07 7:16 am “Yates advised that today’s hardware will not support Longhorn as Microsoft recommends. It will require more expensive investments in PCs — which might prove to be an opportunity for Apple.” First, Longhorn will run on todays hardware. There are 3 settings for Avalon, the lowest will be much like windows 2000’s UI and require a 64 meg graphics card. _todays_ systems come with 128 and 256, if you can’t afford a 64 meg graphics card in 2007 you might want to pick up a used webtv box at a garage sale somewhere instead. I do however agree with his point on Apple making progress between now and when Longhorn ships. Depending on the success rate of SP2 at not being made swiss cheese and not borking everything. Apple should be able to have some fun with OSX between now and 2006 (when the LH hype rolls in). Right now OSX is doing a pretty good job of stealing Microsoft’s thunder. 2004-07-07 8:36 am Apple is having to subsidize sales into the enterprise. There really is no point to getting Apple servers… what runs on them that doesn’t run equally well if not better on other cheaper machines? As more of the computing world goes grid/cluster of inexpensive nodes/blades, there really is no opportunity for Apple’s high-end high-price computers. With Apple losing market share every day, there is less and less of a reason to support Safari or other Apple incompatibilities. All in all, Apple’s “success” comes in the world of hype and press releases. In the real world, OS X will never be relevant unless it is ported to the x86 platform. Even within the sparse and expensive PowerPC space, Apple is not even 100% open source. So OS X is not a trustable platform. It will take major changes for Apple to be a player on the global stage. I don’t think Steve is brave enough to go all the way open source and/or port OS X to x86. Without doing both of these things, Apple’s fate is bleak. 2004-07-07 9:09 am Apple is having to subsidise sales into the enterprise. There really is no point to getting Apple servers… what runs on them that doesn’t run equally well if not better on other cheaper machines? I guess some people who have actually thought about the problem (Virginia Tech, US Army, UCLA) disagree with you. There is room for more than one hardware platform in the world, why not embrace diversity instead of acting all threatened whenever Apple is mentioned? With Apple losing market share every day, there is less and less of a reason to support Safari or other Apple incompatibilities. Apply, beleaguered and dying since 1994. Not even a very good troll, please play elsewhere. 2004-07-07 10:06 am It’s news when Apple gets *one* account win. And on that same day, x86 gets hundreds if not thousands of account wins. Unfortunately for the blind believers they do not understand that a realistic description of the world is not “trolling”. Apple has given incredible discounts just to get their meager few account wins. It is not something that would inspire an investor to stick with Apple. With each new generation of OS X, we get more and more candy. The operating system is “all dressed up with nowhere to go”. A Mac is like a painting, not something useful for anyone outside of the artiste community. Why won’t we look at a graph of Apple’s market share from 1994 to now (basically a very nice downhill ski slope) and then talk about how well Apple is doing. Sure because of inflation the dollar volumes are still high. But the company is barely breaking even. In simple terms, there is no sustainable advantage that Apple has because they are not building market share. If you don’t build your customer base, you have no future. It is that simple. 2004-07-07 10:44 am If you don’t build your customer base, you have no future. It is that simple. Golden words… Bad news is what no free areas left on US market. People already have all they want. It is that simple Maybe it`s time for Apple to get descent international support, and drop prices for growing markets, like China, Russia and India, or highly multinational markets, like EU? 2004-07-07 10:48 am Did you ever use a mac ? Or a Linux box ? If not, you don’t know what you’re talking about. Mac has the best unix-like OS on the market. Use a mac and you won’t go back. It’s a relief when you’re fed up with Microsoft’s thing for computers (I don’t want to call it an operating system anymore). No crashes, no virusses, no need to buy a new machine with the new version of the software…. Only, on servers …. they should build a x86 version of their OS, because I still like Compaq servers (running slackware) more than OSX Servers. 2004-07-07 11:31 am according to apple’s stock http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=AAPL&t=my&l=on&z=m&q=l&c= , if you would have purchased in 1994 when their market share was so high, you would have doubled your investment. that;s about 10% increase a year, which is by no means stellar, but apple is not a dying company by any means. plus many investors have put apple on their buy list because they are actually making money on things above and beyond desktop computing. and being the only other major computer company to not be in debt (the other is microsoft) i don’t think they are doing to shabby. OS X + XServe is an enterprise ready combo. how many websites are delivered by Windows+IIS to serve web (hint: not as many as run unix-like OSes and apache). how many large enterprise systems are x86? why are windows users so concerned with marketshare? you think you guys would want diversity so virus/worm writers would pick on someone else for a little while. and millions of users on a platform is not a niche group. and as for thunder: having most of the features microsoft has claimed will revolutionize computing possibly years before microsoft releases them isn’t a blow? if its not then you at least have to give apple credit for being the first to market. and i might argue that apple is doing it better then microsoft: WinFS, a database on top of an already slow file system (NTFS) compared to Spotlight, leveraging features that are already part of the file system (HFS+). Avalon, a DirectX version of Quartz Extreme (though it might have the edge of vector drawing for new apps), and security, which is becoming more and more of a problem for windows users every day (how many government agencies recommend against using internet explorer today?) is a few orders of magnatude less of a problem for OS X users (sure there are holes, but no wild exploits for the known ones). and web developers shouldn’t support “Safari” they should support web standards and don’t write crap for a browser that doesn’t support those standards. sure you should check how it renders in a host of browsers, but writing something that just works in IE is one the laziest, self-absorbed things a web designer can do. if i could fire web developers whose simple sites render in IE but not mozilla, opera, safari, or konqueror, i would, because there’s no reason to not markup to open standards don’t be so comfortable with microsoft as your desktop master. get out and think for yourself and stop sipping the dribble your bohemeth spits on you. i’m not an OS X zealot, i’m an open standards zealot, and it turns out that OS X is the commercial OS that’s scratching that itch for me at the moment. i know that i can take my mac and throw it into a windows network and not have any problems getting things done. i can take that same computer over to a unix/linux network and get things done again. promote diversity and get out of your monoculture computing world or sooner or later your going to wake up and realize you’re stuck and can’t get out. go on and love windows, that’s fine, but stop spreading your FUD and go do something useful. 2004-07-07 11:43 am You simply cannot say Apple is a good investment compared to the alternatives: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=my&s=AAPL&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=dell Note the “+100,000%” mark on the log scale where the alternative is. And compare noted mark to the basement, where Apple lives. Apple has no customer base for computers. And a company without a customer base is a company without a future. There is no investor that is so stupid as to not understand this. Looking at the graph I referenced, it is easy to see who the majority of investors think is going to be around in the future. 2004-07-07 11:47 am … I got a new Powermac dual 2.0 GHz yesterday and I’m in the process of migrating all my data from my linux box (have used linux since 1999). This is my first mac, my impressions: fantastic! I was on SuSE 9.1 and Mandrake 9.2 (still using Mandrake 9.2) at work and I can tell you there’s a long road ahead for Linux at the interface level… No doubt in the comings weeks as I get used to Mac OS X I’ll find some quirks as with any OS but so far I’m totally impressed. 2004-07-07 11:57 am As an IT manager for an major global TV company, I used to think the Macs where a waste of time… then I actually USED one and experienced the elegance of the fit between the hardware and Panther. No OS is perfect, but Panther comes damn close to it and I’ll never go back to that POS that is Windows. You say there’s no software for OS X??? I say bull$*&t! Lay off the crack pipe for a while as you are obviously deluded. 2004-07-07 12:11 pm Why even bother wasting your time arguing with Icon of Code, Supertroll?! 2004-07-07 2:21 pm What did you do? Go through the last 3 years of OSNews and Slashdot and pull out every troll regarding Apple you could find? Your post is like thousands before you, and all of these identical posts have been wrong. I’m no psychic, but I don’t see you or any of your trolling brethren’s predictions coming true. Hasn’t happened yet, and isn’t likely to. If you’re going to try and look impressive with your “knowledge”, you could at least take a new stance on the old “Apple will soon be gone” speeches. Yours is as generic and copied as they get. 2004-07-07 2:39 pm there’s a difference between losing market share, and growing your user base. apple’s percentage may go down, but their user base is always increasing. so you’re saying a company with always increasing sales is going out of business eh? guess you better tell the 10 people in the past ONE year at my college, in computer science house, that all the macs they bought are going to be garbage soon. (mind you we went from 1 to 2 macs on floor to around 13 within a year or so. why? because os x just simply rocks). 2004-07-07 3:22 pm “what runs on them that doesn’t run equally well if not better on other cheaper machines?” OS X. “…because they are not building market share. If you don’t build your customer base, you have no future.” You are confusing marketshare and customer base. Apple’s marketshare has indeed dropped while their customer base got larger. People simply bought more PC’s than Mac, that doesn’t mean that LESS people are buying Macs overall. “When it comes to Windows reliability, bugs, viruses, etc., if a person has any sense, these problems are very rare” LOL. “Maybe one day Mac will be a real platform” Don’t tell that to the thousands of recording studios that rely exclusively on the Mac. Running ProTools on a PC is just a joke. “Apple has no customer base for computers.” You are calling MILLIONS of people ‘no customer base’?? LOL. “…it is easy to see who the majority of investors think is going to be around in the future.” The iPod market is something that is an undeniable success for Apple. Even though Apple spun off its own iPod division, it is still under the Apple ticker, which makes AAPL a very viable investment. Much to your chagrin, Apple is a profitable company with plenty in the bank to back it up. Investors want profit, they get profits from Apple. Simple really. 2004-07-07 3:22 pm “A Mac is like a painting, not something useful for anyone outside of the artiste community.” You need to stop running OS 9 than and upgrade to OS X. One area that comes to my mind is “Science”..raw numbers crunching on the Unix OS X. there are also a good number of CAD or MID programs that have come back to the plateform, at least 6 that I can think of. MS is getting slower and slower compared to Apple and IBM. They(MS) will have a difficult time following Apple in the years to come. Especially in the OS and consumer products like the iPod & consumer freindly wares like the iApps. 2004-07-07 3:29 pm “guess you better tell the 10 people in the past ONE year at my college, in computer science house, that all the macs they bought are going to be garbage soon. (mind you we went from 1 to 2 macs on floor to around 13 within a year or so. why? because os x just simply rocks).” I agree my church is buying a Powermac Dual 2.0 ghz two wks and 3 other people from their edu/music department are too. They are sick of windows and worms running on their dells. All the talk is about is about OS X Tiger,,,,and these are all Windows folks! I also plan to upgrade in the fall. 2004-07-07 4:16 pm i would, because there’s no reason to not markup to open standards Except that there sort of is. You see it has to look good in IE 5 and IE 6. Now IE 6 fixes IE’s broken DOM implementation. So you get things working nicely there. But then you realise that because IE renders stuff differently than Mozilla and Opera you have to spend your time working out how to render things so that they display well in all browsers. In a short space of time you forget some of the finer points of what the standard is and settle on things looking good to you paying client sees when he fires up IE, getting it done on time and in budget. Principles quickly give way to reality and putting food on the table. But yes I agree with you follow standards as much as possible and learn as many CSS hacks to get things looking good everywhere. 2004-07-07 4:22 pm Principles quickly give way to reality and putting food on the table. ain’t that the truth… still bad design though. Factor site testing into your costs. 2004-07-07 4:57 pm “But yes I agree with you follow standards as much as possible and learn as many CSS hacks to get things looking good everywhere.” If only people would follow through with that last one. I see sites all the time that use CSS hacks that were only half way done. They use a hack without thinking of how it breaks compatibility later. Use a hack to make it look good in IE5 and it ends up screwing up in IE6, but then which do you fix? It’s amazing how many people don’t know the star hack. What it comes down to is that we are stuck screwing around trying to fix IE’s shortcomings for the next few years until MS releases a new version, then we are stuck fixing that one while maintaining compatibility with older versions, and all the while it’s slowed the pace of the web down to almost nothing just so that when a new IE comes out and supports 5 year old technology MS can look like they single handedly made the web a more usable and fast-paced place, when in reality we developers did all of our work and fixed theirs and all they have done is held the world back another decade. I used to think it was between MS standards and the rest of the worlds standards, then I get to thinking MS can’t decide on anything so no matter how much marketshare they have, they are not a standard. ‘Microsoft: Our failure, your frustration.’ 2004-07-07 5:46 pm Because it’s completely impossible to compile/convert x86 linux code to run on PPC, as the sourceforge/fink thing has proven repeatedly. So the fact that I can run gnome, kde, fluxbox, nessus, xpilot, enlightenment, and a few other thousand linux apps under the X11 layer of Mac OS X is a miracle? You must be a troll cause for me it was a simple case of configure, make/make install 2004-07-07 5:48 pm “So the fact that I can run gnome, kde, fluxbox, nessus, xpilot, enlightenment, and a few other thousand linux apps under the X11 layer of Mac OS X is a miracle? You must be a troll cause for me it was a simple case of configure, make/make install” Look up Fink. I think he was being sarcastic. 2004-07-07 6:32 pm Except that there sort of is. You see it has to look good in IE 5 and IE 6. Now IE 6 fixes IE’s broken DOM implementation. So you get things working nicely there. But then you realise that because IE renders stuff differently than Mozilla and Opera you have to spend your time working out how to render things so that they display well in all browsers. In a short space of time you forget some of the finer points of what the standard is and settle on things looking good to you paying client sees when he fires up IE, getting it done on time and in budget. Principles quickly give way to reality and putting food on the table. But yes I agree with you follow standards as much as possible and learn as many CSS hacks to get things looking good everywhere. I remember opening the IT intranet at my former employer in a non-IE browser. It looked like crap. IE is too forgiving of bad code and inderectly encourages sloppy coding. I re-coded the entire page using Mozilla as a testbed and once it was coded properly it looked good in all browsers. IE is far from standards-compliant. This seems to follow the M$ MO.. “we’ll create our own standards, forget the rest of the world.” 2004-07-07 7:22 pm “Notice how they they resort to your facts with personal attacks..” Not True. I made some very valid points that went totally uncontested. Why? Because on all matters of fact (as opposed to opinion), I was right and Icon_of_Code was wrong. Perhaps you have some contructive insight into the matter? 2004-07-07 7:32 pm “Notice how they they resort to your facts with personal attacks… Its all they have because they know Apple’s market share has peaked.” *sigh* You’re delusional if you think that Icon of Code’s tired old trolls are fact. Go back to Economics 101 and get it through your respective skulls that market share is not an indication of profitability. There is a disconnect among otherwise intelligent people that for a tech company to succeed in a certain market segment, it has to dominate. Rubbish. If you think that the Xserve or any of Apple’s enterprise class offerings are irrelevant to the enterprise/government markets, I suggest you read Federal Computer Week’s review of the Xserve G4 http://www.fcw.com/fcw/articles/2002/1014/tec-apple-10-14-02.asp. The Xserve G5 merely ups the ante as the most cost effective 64-bit server available .As to your assertion that Apple has no future in the grid/cluster computing segment because the equipment is too costly, that’s just plain laughable. The Virginia Tech, U.S Army and UCLA teams chose the Xserve/OS X Server combination because it’s the most cost-effective solution, period. And obviously in your world Xgrid doesn’t exist. Here’s a clue: it’s grid computing for the masses with a nice graphical interface to boot. All the reviews I’ve read on IT-centric sites emphasize the fact that the Xserve is more cost effective and easier to set up than any comparable x86 machine, and that’s just for initial expenditure. They are also of the opinion that use of Xserve and OS X Server are less labor-intensive to maintain, leading to lower personnel costs, not to mention they have nothing like the security headaches that Windows enjoys. From where I’m sitting, Icon of Code looks more like Monolith of Ignorance, and your simplistic claim that his stream-of-consciousness rambling is “fact” merely points out that you’ve also bought into this tired old rubbish. 2004-07-07 7:35 pm “If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it’s still a foolish thing.” — Bertrand Russell 2004-07-07 8:38 pm So the fact that I can run gnome, kde, fluxbox, nessus, xpilot, enlightenment, and a few other thousand linux apps under the X11 layer of Mac OS X is a miracle? You must be a troll cause for me it was a simple case of configure, make/make install>> Glenn, I was being sarcastic. (My standard response to any “linux expert” troll who bitches that all the good OSS Linux software is for x86. I loathe the CLI and would never call myself a *nix expert, but even *I* know that I can find a binary and convert it.) I use OS X at home. I’ve “finked” a few applications. When I get a G5 in 2-3 years**, I’m looking forward to taking a few classic applications and compiling them to 64 bits just for the heck of it. (64 bit mahjong, just what the world needs.) — ** I’ve vowed I will buy a new powermac tower when (a) OS X hits 64 bits and (b) processors hit 3.0+ ghz. — 2004-07-07 9:19 pm “::i hate mac:: i hate steve jobbs:: i personally think he’s a lunatic::” Forgot to take our lithium this morning, did we? 2004-07-07 10:57 pm LOL. That’s more like it. Good show, etc. 2004-07-07 11:50 pm :::I’ve vowed I will buy a new powermac tower when (a) OS X hits 64 bits and (b) processors hit 3.0+ ghz::: Start saving your pennies… I think both events will occur before the next WWDC in 2005. I hope to join you! 2004-07-08 12:10 am Ronald, I presume you’re referring to my vitriolic attack on Goethe several days ago. As I said at the time, I don’t mind discussing and correcting what I believe to be mistaken assumptions, but Goethe went too far with his offensive post. Icon of Code is simply pushing arguments that were debunked long ago by smarter people than me, but I felt that some blatantly incorrect statements needed to be pointed out. In any case, I’m glad you found it amusing. 2004-07-08 4:38 am “but I felt that some blatantly incorrect statements needed to be pointed out.” So, you responded with blatantly incorrect statements and hyperbole?