Could Apple be skimping on Windows integration with its forthcoming “Tiger” version of Mac OS X? Support for Mac clients in the enterprise still looks scant to many on the front lines, says eWEEK.
Is Mac OS X ‘Tiger’ Rolling Over on Windows Support?
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Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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This article was basically crap. I know Apple’s don’t mix well with Windows networks, but I always felt that it was as much that Windows doesn’t play nice with anything else, including older versions of itself.
Neither Active Directory or Exchange clients are exactly open and easy to implement. Most efforts have to be reverse engineered. It seems from this article that Apple should be able to just magic up compatibility.
Perhaps if MS actually made specifications available for general use more people would be playing nice with them.
Is the integration with Unix/Linux servers. With all of the interest in connecting to otherwise pure-Microsoft networks, I also saw no mention of integration with other enterprise solutions like Lotus Domino, or other old servers like IBM’s AS/400 (still present in a lot of companies).
I personally believe that Apple’s integration with Microsoft is hampered only by Apple’s growing reliance on open-source solutions. That leaves room for third-party solutions like Thursby Software, who does an excellent job of filling the gap.
Without seeing how Apple plays with other solutions than Microsoft’s, or how the other solutions play with Microsoft, it is an extremely myopic article.
Article was crap. The title, and the article in general, give this aura of *OS 10.4 isn’t doing enough for windows network integration*. Then you find out that tiger actually will address all the issues, but the author of the article was upset that Steve didn’t focus on it in his keynote.
From the article:
“But once again, the question is whether Tiger Server’s ACL implementation will work in a cross-platform environment. That is, will Mac clients be controlled by ACLs on Windows servers?”
From the Apple website:
“Even if you have a multi-platform network, you can still enjoy the flexibility of ACLs in Tiger Server — because they’re compatible with those in Windows Server 2003 and Windows XP.”
Nice research.
OS/400 supports SMB and NFS shares; also note that it can mount NFS shares from other computers. Thus you could turn on a NFS share on the Mac and have the iSeries box just mount the share into the IFS; you need extra software to make Windows support NFS networking.
Mac OS X supports all open UNIX networking standards. Thus in a UNIX/Linux enviroment the Mac looks right at home and requires no special suport. Again, Windows machines will need special treatment in a UNIX/Linux network.
The worst thing about the artical is that the author side it’s Apples fault for not working in a Windows network. I feel that it’s Microsofts fault that Windows doesn’t work in a UNIX network. Please remember that:
1) UNIX networking has been out longer then Windows networking.
2) More OSs support UNIX networking then Windows networking.
3) UNIX networking is based on open standards and thus can be freely intergated into Windows (it’ll only cost MS the time to add support).
As for Apples failure to play well with Windows, this has several issues:
1) Microsoft wont publish the Exchange interface protocall.
2) They wont publish their security protocalls.
3) They wont publish the Active Directry modificatoins to LDAP.
Microsoft made Windows incompatable with other networking solutions on purpose. They want you to install Windows only and never use any other OS as a server. It’s only because Windows doesn’t work with other systems that people installed the Windows Servers and now believe that it’s the other OSs fault that they don’t work with the Windows Servers.
I believe the world would be better of if they only used non-Windows servers and Microsoft made changes to support Windows to support non-Windows servers.
Relax man…ever hear of Services for Unix? It’s been out for a while, a free download from the MS website. Windows does just fine in a *nix network, and *nix (via samba) does just fine on windows networks as well. thx for the FUD though.
Until they include those tools with the OS, it’s still special treatment – ie. it’s still easier to buy a Mac OS X Mac and place it on a *nix network that it is with a Windows PC. At least that’s the impression I got.
Sam
Microsoft:
If we share code then it will weaken our security even more. Third party developers are the reason our software is so easily compromised.
Apple:
It’s best not to share code or port to other platforms since this will only cause us to lose profits because consumers will then have options to use other software/hardware. (ie: http://www.jahshaka.com/news/appled.html ).
Linux:
Why does Microsoft hate us so much (ie: MS campaign to bash Linux, financially backing SCO, etc)? Can’t we all just get along?
Most of the comments here are correctly stating that Microsoft’s standards are not open,or easy to implement. That is true, however the enteprise that already has a signifigant investment in windows servers and clients doesn’t care about fairness. They will not replace millions of dollars of equipment just because its difficult to use macs. They will simply contiune to by windows clients and servers. Thats the whole point of the article. The only way this situation will be changed is if a non microsoft vendor creates clients and servers that integrate seemlessly into microsoft networks, nd if Apple would like to be that company they will have to try harder.
Now, mostly I stay out of these things, as most platform contention arguments are, essentially, pointless – everything’s flawed, nothing to see here. But, just to point out something that was lost in the link given above – to join the Apple Developer Connection, you must:
1. go to Apple’s developer website
2. register for free
That’s it. There are varying levels of support, but for access to sample code, Q&As written by engineers and various articles and hard documentation/reference material, that’s all you need.
Nobody needs to call or interact with anybody, period. And I don’t want to call the guy writing the piece anything out of his name, the situation he describes is unlikely. If anybody here can pass this on to him: Send his story to the Apple Developer Connection contact e-mail address. That, or call (408)996-1010 and request the director of Apple’s Marketing Department (developer relations is contained therein). His name is Ron Okomoto, and he’s a stand-up guy.
I used to work there, but don’t anymore – I was in Developer Technical Support, and won’t stand/sit by and watch as people slander a department full of hardworking folks
That, and I think, if true, this guy got shafted.
Regards
Thanks for the info. I’ll pass it along to the Jahshaka R & D team. They are a little ticked at present because they already got what they consider a run around by several people at Apple. I truly believe Apple is afraid of competition with open source software as well as hardware. Otherwise you would see more apps ported to OSX, OSX apps ported to Linux/Windows and OSX ported to x86.
Huh?
“So i told here we were looking to get signed up as a developer and wanted to find out how Apple could assist our project.”
Why should Apple assist you? Are you coding for Final Cut?
“Didnt want to help out, I thought – im just looking to get signed up as a developer…”
Uh, you just said you asked for help. Anyone can sign up to the ADC. Takes about ten seconds and the intelligence of a gold fish.
“However, Apple is becoming a software company, and so if you are developing products that compete with theirs in any way then they will not assist you.”
Becoming? Becoming a software company? Where have you been? Apple has always been a software company.
“This is sure death for their developer program – i mean who the hell wants to write software for a platform when your biggest competition is the company that owns the platform?”
Sounds like they don’t know what competiton is, that they can’t deal with it?
How would anyone compete with MS?
“I now totally understand why Adobe dropped Premiere on OsX…”
Because it was a complete commercial failure.
“If Apples User Base doesnt speak up soon developers will stop porting one by one…”
I see no end to the OS software being ported to OS X.
“…and you will be back in the days where your choices were totally limited, and you were stuck with ClarisWorks while everyone else was using Office.”
Office started on the Mac. When ClarisWorks existed, MS Works existed, WordPerfect, Nisus, WriteNow, and many other apps. Are you familiar with Apple at all?
“Now, even if you are a Pro Apple user, you must realize that this is the death of ingenuity for the tools that you use.”
No, you must realize you are a raving zealot.
//because stacking a hundred lemon colored servers is expensive when it comes down to storage.//
Lemon … colored … servers. Can you post a link that shows one of these?
Thanks much.
Chris,
I don’t know what bizarro world your living in, but Macs are used in many places that use more that 24 computers. Polo’s internal art department, in New Jersey, uses quite a few. ALL the ad agencies I know uses 98% macs… CGI Artists and programmers do not make $15/hour… they make anywhere from 40k-150k/year and they probably use, mostly, 3d MAX. Oh, and how did the AMD ‘kick butt?’
Jb
Virginia Tech
Colsa, D of D
Univ. of Maine
UCLA
Pixar
Genentech
As for pay, I was getting $30 to $50 an hour when I was 19. I hardly ever freelance now, but I ask for 75$ to $100 when I do.
And are you aware of the Xserve RAID and Xsan are the storage options while the Xserve is simply a server?
Duh… duh, duh, DUMB!!
Hmmm, I’m typing this message on a dual G5 mac that I mostly use for software development and numerical analysis. After using Linux for 3 years I finally through in the towel with it and got a Mac. It’s fast, does the work I need it too, and doesn’t require as much fussing with as the various linux distros did.
Can’t say I’ve done any art with it, and I certainly don’t make $15 an hour.