Novell is developing a slimmed-down version of SuSE Linux especially designed to desktop enterprise deployments easier to support. SuSE Linux 9.1 Professional, the latest version of the desktop OS, comes with 3,000 packages and seven web browsers, according to Novell. Steve Brown, Novell’s European VP, said there was a danger of the OS becoming too “top heavy”.
Novell eyes lean, mean Linux
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Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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Desktop OS must install by default best of breed software. This is not the U.N. we are talking about. Just weed out the pretenders and spend energy improving the contenders.
If Novell settles on Ximian’s desktop as their default desktop, they will be doing to Linux what they have done to every other great product that ever landed in their hands.
People have no trouble with Suse 9.1 if you do a sensible installation. Who says that you have to install all the apps that come with Suse? The only gnome apps that I install are evolution and gramps.
KDE feels like a unified, coherent and easy to use desktop.
Well, finally it seems they’ll choose GTK instead of QT as their desktop toolkit.
I guess it won’t be good news for KDE supporters…
the problem is that adding software after the fact to a commercial distro like Suse is a PITA for new users. Pretty much your stuck with what you got. Suse isn’t quite big enough to get the FUN stuff properly packaged by the actual developers…and they’re too busy to keep up with latest and greatest. Ideally, they’d put in better apt-get support and link to debian sources which is becomming all the rage lately for hobby distros then new users wouldn’t be landlocked.
I do agree with a simpler distro for enterprise…but there’s always “one more app” you gotta get online in a “simplified” situation for your specific work environment. Suse has to make the “one more app” process much simpler if they want to be successful.
So this is the continuation of Ximian Desktop, now with a fixed SUSE base, under a new name?
I think this is an excellent idea for the corporate desktop. Users only want one “web browser” icon, one email client, one office suite etc. The idea is make it easy for the employees to get their job done as easily as possible. Providing a minimalistic install a la Windows is a great idea as this is what is required. Provide a mechanism to install software as necessary, and a central patch management, and Novell are onto a winner.
I think and hope, that they are actually going to make it a new product targeted at company environments, next to their existing offerings.
It might make sense for users to have 7 different browsers and 5 different mail clients, but it probably will not for companies.
In order for Linux to succeed in the mainstream, two groups of users need to be targetted:
Those who use Linux for work
and
Those who use Linux for school
the corporate desktop is needed to woo normal, adult people over to Linux, the user-centric desktop is needed to woo the people who will one day be in charge
I work very close to SUSE/Novell and from what I heard the Novell Linux Desktop will let you choose between KDE (which is currently the by far most popular desktop) and Gnome (with none of them being a default). Mozilla will probably be “the” webbrowser (although nobody will force you not to use Konqueror — ex-IE users are used to using their filemanager as a webbrowser after all).
I think this is a very good and right-minded choice.
I don’t think there will be a choice between KDE or GNOME, because they (Novell) have a clear vision about the desktop, and it’s based on GNOME. They want to make a lean version for business users, I think it’s realistic to expect only one desktop. Ximian Desktop is based on GNOME.
But I am worried about the support for IE only sites. Doesn’t this open the door to ActiveX vulnerabilities or is ActiveX not what they are talkong about? It could be to improve compatibility with corporate intra-/extranets using ActiveX.
Brian Green, Novell’s director of Linux marketing, said the software would include Ximian Desktop and support for a browser than supported IE6 extensions, making it possible to access IE-only websites. Green wouldn’t be drawn on what browser would be included but a Mozilla-based web browser would be our guess.
now thats a good news
> I don’t think there will be a choice between KDE or
Says who? From reliable sources I can only tell that the original comment about the choice between desktops is true (although I am in favour of KDE myself).
> because they (Novell) have a clear vision about the desktop,
Yes and so far their vision has been desktop neutral.
Although Gnome fan boys like you have already predicted that SUSE would change to your favourite desktop since SUSE 9.0 they didn’t switch. With even the current SUSE 9.2 beta being based on KDE this whole “They will switch, they will switch!”-nonsense turns out to be just wishful thinking on your side.
Novell/SUSE Linux currently defaults to KDE and there are no reasons why this should change. Rather the opposite: For technical as well as standardization reasons it would make much more sense to stay with KDE.
With even the current SUSE 9.2 beta being based on KDE this whole “They will switch, they will switch!”-nonsense turns out to be just wishful thinking on your side.
There hasn’t been a major release of SuSE since Novell took over. I’m not saying that thye will choose KDE or GNOME, but their options are definately still open. You can’t do much other than take a wait-and-see approach.
I am relieved.
>> Although Gnome fan boys
Said the KDE fan boy…
I don’t think that Novell Linux is made for any GNOME/KDE fan boy out there.
I don’t quite get it. Why is it always so that people want to force other people to use their choises.
“Use KDE/GNOME because….<insert favourite rant here>”
This is not only restricted to DE..
Emacs vs Vi,
Mozilla vs khtml vs IE
Windows vs Linux vs *BSD vs MacOS
SuSE vs RedHat vs …
The list can grow a lot larger.
Can’t people just settle with the fact that there is a choise and not try to force others to think and believe what they do?
If you like KDE, fine, use it. If you like GNOME, then use that. It doesn’t really matter in the end what Novell chooses as default (if they plan on doing that, it seems rather vague). KDE/GNOME will still continue to evolv and grow… Both enviroments will be available, in one form or another!
This seems to be more poo from the monkeys at Novell.
SuSE already have a slim integrated version shipping only with KDE. This is seems merely to be the Ximian Desktop counterpart. Sounds like a great idea, except that by trying to compete directly with KDE at SuSE, it is actually the opposite of what it claims to be.
Is this so difficult to understand?! Of course you don’t have to install everything, nobody does, but you will install browser #1 and I may install browser #2 + 3 — so all of them have to work in the first place and all of them have to be supported! With there only being one browser you have to care about, yes you guessed that right, ONE browser only. Wow.
If you are able to read German, the last chapter of
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/49437 might be interesting…
The last chapter of this article basically says that one of the reasons for the updated Free Qt Agreement (see http://dot.kde.org/1090614115/) could be because Novell is interested in buying Trolltech. They also restate that Novell anounced that there future desktop will be based on Qt. And they write that neither Novell or Trolltech wanted to deny in March that Novell could buy Trolltech. This is probably speculation, but everything else that was written here is also speculation, so I just wanted to add it to this nice discussion:-)
The default install should only include one application of the best applications. Then, let the user add/change whatever else. A poll can decide the best applications (I think Osnews has already made such a poll).
I know that Heise is a well-respected german IT publication- perhpas the most respected. And I know that “Heise” refers to the name of the Heinz Heise-but I can’t get over the irony of how often “Heise” is simply engaging in “heise Spekulation” and “heise Geruechte”-perhaps this irony is only apparent to me because I am a native english speaker and the relation between “heise” and “hot” is just to obvious for me. At any rate “Heise” is the most partisan and rumour-spreading IT publication I have ever seen: it seems they have made their name by playing insider-politics, cleverly manipulating, through discourse practices, what they are supposedly “reporting” about. Perhaps they just suffer from too much “Besserwissertum” or “Klugscheissertum”
.
Suse Linux professional includes Auto-Yast. Auto-Yast is designed for automatical deployments. Only the packages the administrator has selceted are installed (+hardware detection +customizing +…).
No company ever (excluding Novell) has deployed Suse with seven webbrowers installed.
There is just no need for a stripped down version of a linux distriution because the administrator can select which packages he wants.
I think the point of only having a single browser is to simplify documentation and troubleshooting for Novell. Instead of 7 troubleshooting guides for the browser, and 7 sets of paper documentation, they can have one.
Corporate desktops are not about choice folks. In the best situation the user has as few choices as possible. This is so when Employee 1 moves from Workstation A to Workstation B, they don’t have to call the Help Desk and ask how to access the Internet.
Similarly, when Network Administrator A calls Novell because s/he is having problems with the browser, Novell Support doesn’t have to ask, “Are you using Epiphany, Lynx, Galeon, Opera, Internet Explorer via/CrossOver Office, Mozilla Firefox, or Mozilla Vanilla?”
Why the hell do they buy Ximian (a company totally focused on GTK/GNOME) and then base their desktop affords on QT/KDE? This makes no sense…
Well, I just remembered Novell’s other attempts to buy itself into a new market (remember their attempt to compete against MS office!). Maybe they are really just incredible morons with too much money…
At this point, I don’t think Novell’s desktop strategy is clear. This story certainly makes it sound like Novell will have a Gnome-centric corporate desktop. However, right now, it is just vague statements from a Novell exec. I’ve learned through experience to ignore these types of statements and wait for actual product releases before getting excited/annoyed by them.
> Why the hell do they buy Ximian (a company totally focused on GTK/GNOME)
Because they were interested especially in Redcarpet and in Mono. Look at their announcements more closely and you’ll realize that they mostly mention “Ximian” related to “Mono” and “Redcarpet”.
# the software would include
# Ximian Desktop and support for
If it would be based on Gnome it would say “would be based on XD”. Like this (“would include XD”) it just sounds like XD would serve as added value (for those who are interested in it).
LOL
“comes with 3,000 packages and seven web browsers, according to Novell. Steve Brown, Novell’s European VP, said there was a danger of the OS becoming too “top heavy”.”
I’d love to know what top heavy is in their eyes. 4000 packages and 9 browsers? Good lord.
Bill “tekmage” Borsari
I think it’s very unlikely that Novell would continue to include both Desktops, for the very reason mentioned in the item summary: it’s hard to support.
By including KDE and GNOME, Novell would be basically committing themselves to supporting two systems; they wouldn’t know which set of tools any system had installed, so supporting individual users would become almost “Well, what do you click to get the main menu? A foot? A K? Neither? Well, how about an ‘Applications’ button?”
I would personally guess GNOME would be the choice, as it’s slimmed down approach to preferences seems more suited to a corporate desktop (and again is easier to support,) but I truly have no idea other than that guess.
Novell Business Desktop = XD
Novell Pro & Home Desktop = KDE
With regards to preferences — corporate desktops generally don’t allow *any* changing of preferences. They are locked down by the administrator when the system is installed. KDE has a tool to do this lock-down, so isn’t any less suitable on the corporate desktop than GNOME, at least, becased on the configuration angle.
“Well, finally it seems they’ll choose GTK instead of QT as their desktop toolkit.
I guess it won’t be good news for KDE supporters… ”
Novell have already said that will use kde… their client want kde, novell want to use gnome but client don’t want…
Heisse, not heise, Spekulation …
”
Novell have already said that will use kde… their client want kde, novell want to use gnome but client don’t want…”
When did they say that? All we know for sure is that they are standardizing(internally) on gtk#.
There is a ton of speculation and hear-say going on here. Not to burst your bubble or anything, but I have seen the Novell Linux Desktop (NLD), in it’s various bata stages and it is definately going to hit the enterprise desktop mark. It is not the SuSE Pro that you are used to, but it is very fast, smooth and functional. I can’t say more than that, just wait, I think you will like the direction Novell is going for their enterprise desktop. If not you can roll your own any way you want as there are so many choices with open source and the communities out there, you just wont have the support organization of a major Linux company behind it….
> They are locked down by the administrator when the
> system is installed. KDE has a tool to do this
> lock-down, so isn’t any less suitable on the corporate
> desktop than GNOME, at least, becased on the
> configuration angle.
KDE does not only have ONE tool (“kiosk”)
http://extragear.kde.org/apps/kiosktool.php
but also a whole framework which makes it EASILY possible to lock down your whole desktop from a bunch of general desktop properties down to every particular menu entry and widget in every single application. The best thing is that you don’t really need to use a GUI tool (the kiosktool) but you can do that easily (in true old UNIX style) by editing readable rc-files using your favourite texteditor by hand!
http://enterprise.kde.org/articles/korporatedesktop3.php
http://www.linux-mag.com/2002-11/kde_01.html
http://webcvs.kde.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/kdelibs/kdecore/README.kio…
In addition there are already lots of other third-party Kiosk tools not related to the KDE project which offer support for controlling KDE’s Kiosk framework as well as the Windows policies in a network simultaneously, e.g.:
http://openkiosk.sourceforge.net/
Together with the FreeNX Client and Server architecture which will be released during aKademy
http://dot.kde.org/1088363665/
KDE proves to be the ideal choice for Terminal and Application Server deployment. It’s definately something you don’t want to miss when it comes to Linux on the enterprise desktop.
I see the wishful thinkers are out in force
.
Well, finally it seems they’ll choose GTK instead of QT as their desktop toolkit.
GTK is fine as a hacking toolkit, but for development on a corporate desktop and in its performance shortcomings it is a joke. Try running that with a managed environment, on a widespread basis, like Java or Mono. Novell is not going to spend vast amounts of resources making it better.
I don’t think there will be a choice between KDE or GNOME, because they (Novell) have a clear vision about the desktop, and it’s based on GNOME. They want to make a lean version for business users, I think it’s realistic to expect only one desktop. Ximian Desktop is based on GNOME.
Pray tell me – when was the last version of Ximian Desktop, and where is its active development? Which version of Suse Linux did it start shipping on?
But I am worried about the support for IE only sites. Doesn’t this open the door to ActiveX vulnerabilities or is ActiveX not what they are talkong about? It could be to improve compatibility with corporate intra-/extranets using ActiveX.
Eh? Name me a site that uses ActiveX.
This seems to be more poo from the monkeys at Novell.
Well, it certainly sounds like it. If the Suse people were also coming out and saying it then there’d certainly be something to it. As it is, the development of the Suse Desktop just does not reflect anything that this Director of Linux Marketing is saying.
Brian Green, Novell?s director of Linux marketing, said the software would include Ximian Desktop and support for a browser than supported IE6 extensions…
A couple of problems. Firstly, Ximian Desktop doesn’t exist anymore and doesn’t ship on any of Novell’s/Suse’s products. What on Earth does IE6 extensions mean? It could be just trying to work out the remaining IE HTML quirks to get many sites working (like KHTML and the Mozilla people are doing right now), right up to supporting ActiveX or IE plugins. In other words, it means nothing.
If you are able to read German, the last chapter of http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/49437 might be interesting…
I wouldn’t believe anything I read, or translate, on that site. Any deal between Trolltech and Novell/Suse will be a mutual partnership. It is vitally important that Qt continues to have a working business model, so for the last time, no one is going to LGPL it.
The last chapter of this article basically says that one of the reasons for the updated Free Qt Agreement (see http://dot.kde.org/1090614115/) could be because Novell is interested in buying Trolltech.
KDE, and the people involved with that agreement, are under no circumstances acting for Suse/Novell. KDE is an independent project, and that agreement was for the good of KDE.
No company ever (excluding Novell) has deployed Suse with seven webbrowers installed.
Yes, you and I know that, which is exactly why this idiot does not understand Suse’s current desktop products, nor does he have anything to do with Novell/Suse and their future desktop strategy.
Why the hell do they buy Ximian (a company totally focused on GTK/GNOME) and then base their desktop affords on QT/KDE? This makes no sense…
Go and look up Novell’s past history.
When did they say that? All we know for sure is that they are standardizing(internally) on gtk#.
Suse Desktop has KDE on it by default – fact. The only people within Novell who say they are standardising on GTK# is, you guessed it, the Ximian or ex-Ximian people. The Suse people aren’t saying that, and the longtime developers within Novell are not saying that either, so no, they are not standardising on Mono or GTK# at all.
This article means absolutely sweet FA, and is yet more kicking and screaming from the opposing force (and losing side) within Novell.
OK well looks like everyone has their own idea of what Novell is doing, either way we’ll find out this summer when they release NLD
Actually I think that GTK per se is desktop nutral even though it forms the basis of GNOME. You have to remember that GTK was
especially built for The GIMP and GNU Cash well before the licensing fracus between the GNU crowd and TrollTech led to the development of GNOME with GTK as an alternative to KDE with a still proprietary licensed QT. Also many of the popular Apps used under KDE are GTK based with the afore mentioned GIMP and GNU Cash being the most popular.
What does he mean becoming too top-heavy? It’s already there!
SDFLJKR