From games to the desktop itself, 3D graphics will be everywhere in the new Windows Longhorn OS. Take a sneak peek at Microsoft’s forthcoming WGF architecture that will make it happen.
Microsoft Reinvents Desktop Graphics in Windows Longhorn
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Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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it’s like their building 3d right into the core graphics engine… almost like as if you built something like openGL right into the core graphics of the operating system COUGH osx COUGH
The top four things I’m happy about:
1) Moving more stuff into userspace. This is a no-brainer — given how most OpenGL hardware works, there is no good reason to put anything but a very small component into kernelspace (the DRM in the DRI architecture).
2) Elimination of caps bits. Anything that makes the API cleaner and more transparent is a plus in my book.
3) Unification of shaders. With fully programmable hardware, using FP throughought the pipeline, this will be inevitable.
It looks like a lot of this stuff may be motiviated by OpenGL 2.0, an overhaul of OpenGL that will be presented at SIGGRAPH 2004:
http://developer.3dlabs.com/openGL2/whitepapers/OGL2_Overview_1.2.p…
OS X doesn’t use OpenGL until very late in it’s graphics pipeline, specifically, in the final compositing step. It’s hardly “right into the core graphics of the operating system.” Something like that may be in the pipeline (pun intended) for future versions of OS X, but it’s not there yet.
The architectual change of now using the GPU for the UI is probably going to be a signifficant push to the low end graphics industry. I’m wondering what impact this will have on the gaming industry.
Consoles are already moving into the $500 – $600 price range, I am wondering how console vs PC market share will play out after this.
And for the mentions of MS ripping off OSX and Open GL 2.0, I don’t know “who started it first” but Microsoft made this decision public a loong time ago. Please don’t make “___ thought of it first” claims without some supporting information as to the date of the original decisions of both of the involved parties.
True, it might be in the future of OS X. Then again, Longhorn is still in the future, too. 🙂
I never said Microsoft was “ripping off” OpenGL 2.0. DirectX and OpenGL, while similar feature-wise, have usually been quite different from an API standpoint. So it’s not so much “copying” as “competing.” As for who started what first — the first public plans about OpenGL 2.0 came out of 3DLabs in 2001, and the ARB plans to release OpenGL 2.0 at SIGGRAPH 2004 in August. If history is any indication, we’ll be at OpenGL 2.1 or 2.2 by the time Longhorn sees the light of day.
> OS X doesn’t use OpenGL until very late in it’s graphics pipeline,
> specifically, in the final compositing step
With Tiger Apple has deprecated QuickDraw even for Carbon programmers (just follow the discussions in the public Apple’s mailing lists) and not only Quartz Compositor (the window server) but also Quartz 2D (the drawing routines) have been hardware-accelerated. QuickTime, too, has been made independent from QD and deeply optimized.
The new CoreImage/Video filters and effects are based on the programmable shaders available on the latest ATI/NVidia cards but unfortunately they’re not yet documented: currently all these new frameworks are under NDA. But it’s only a question of a few months.
…. ‘desktop must be 3D’ hype they do the rest of their homework in Longhorn too:
* no more dll hell
* no more f**ing registry
* no more stupid installers
* no more frozen program windows
* pnp that really works
* sleep mode that really works
* more robust networking
* no more bluescreens (!)
* more transparent driver management
* no more f**ing reboots after updates
* and on and on and on….
Useless. ..Oh wait, it slows down the system on non-high-end-computers…
as for me, i’m changing to apple at the nearest occasion
Soooooo many applications (MS and 3rd party) depend on it now it would be a very painful experience. They’d have to remap the registry routines to something else for awhile, but what?
I mean, having a gigantic XML-ish configuration file isn’t TOO evil, but what is the alternative? Actually, I like the old “ini” file concept. Then there are the unix-like methods of keeping configuration files for all apps together in one or two areas… I don’t know…
Mike
(and maybe it already works this way, I don’t know enough about Win32) to have a dedicated process that manages all access to the registry based on credentials. Just have a queue that handles the requests one at a time…
Mike
Because the registry is accessed through windows api calls, that api calls could reroute the entrys into an application-individual property file.
Global registry information (like datatypes) sould be solved in a completely different way (take a look at the good old BeOS).
Beyond that, the system can keep its own config database – this wound be no problem. But NO (!) user-application should have access to this database und should ever mess aound with it.
Or:
To achive 100% backward compatibility MS could do the same they did when they moved from Win3.x to Win95/NT: Keep the old ini files (now the registry) but don’t depend Longhorns system configuration and that of the new world (Longhorn-native) apps on it.
Eugenia: Thx for not modding down my ‘I hope beyond that…..’ post – it was really ment as serious criticism and not trolling.
Yes, I agree, I guess. (That’s what I was intimating by the remapping comment – and the rest of my post). And I am a BeOS user and love it, but I figure people are sick of hearing the “Well BeOS did this” comments.
Mike
“Something like that may be in the pipeline (pun intended) for future versions of OS X, but it’s not there yet.”
Neither is Longhorn, but I’d like to give props to OSX that has part of it implemented and on users’ desktops already. I think when Longhorn finally hits it’ll be a few versions before this new UI API settles, meanwhile OSX should have a stable interface that was transitioned in – not dropped in our lap suddenly.
Of course, nothing is ever certain… so maybe MS will get it right the first time.
“Of course, nothing is ever certain… so maybe MS will get it right the first time.
”
When has that happened?
So Quartz 2D will be OpenGL accelerated in 10.4? Spiffy! Tiger looks to be a very exciting release. If it does manage to come out in 1H 2005, they’ll beat Longhorn to the punch by a good while.
>Beyond that, the system can keep its own config database – >this wound be no problem. But NO (!) user-application >should have access to this database und should ever mess >aound with it.
in windows, the registry does not hold only file – application bindings… the registry embodies a unified model and entry point both for config access (application-side) and for config storing (filesystem-side): thus, that there’s no need for applications to implement their own config parsing in a different format every time… moreover the REGserver applies DB-like coherency policies to key editing operations
imho, it’s silly to say “the registry is crap” when one is intimidated by the key hierarchy in regedit, though the tree is often browsable in a logical manner and a simple CTRL F allows the particular key to be found in most cases … imho the registry is not a mess, it’s a logical solution (espcially fron a consistency standpoint)… one can say it should be improved in some respects (one thing i’dd add is a more selective key access policy, banning alteration in the system subtree outside user approved installshield sessions) but it’s not crap in the concept
yes one can find a different solution but: BEOS-like file types apart, what would you suggest for COM+/OLE/ActiveX inter-application integration ?
Consoles are already moving into the $500 – $600 price range
Sorry? The Next-Gen console came out at 299$, and then quickly dropped in price.
No way will any of the big 3 (Sony, MS, Nintendo) release such an expensive base system…
Personally, I’m quite enthusiastic about Sony’s push for an open development platform for the PS3, based on OpenGL/ES. This should provide a much-needed counter to MS’s monopolistic attempt at controlling the game development market with XNA.
http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/07/30/1837253&tid=212&t…
From games to the desktop itself, 3D graphics will be everywhere in the new Windows Longhorn OS. Take a sneak peek at Microsoft’s forthcoming WGF architecture that will make it happen.
>
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Does this mean barf-bag holders will come as
a standard feature on monitors sold with Windows
systems?
Will there be motion-sickness related lawsuits filed
against Microsoft and other idoits who insist on forcing this 3-d based garabge on unwilling people?
“Consoles are already moving into the $500 – $600 price range
Sorry? The Next-Gen console came out at 299$, and then quickly dropped in price.
No way will any of the big 3 (Sony, MS, Nintendo) release such an expensive base system… ”
Not all readers or posters are Americans. I recall consoles first debuting @ that price range in Canada.
“meanwhile OSX should have a stable interface that was transitioned in – not dropped in our lap suddenly.”
Yeah, because OSX transitioned so well from Classic MacOS. Oh, thats’s right, it didn’t. Longhorn will go through similar growing pains but to compare Windows XP and Longhorn to two different versions of OS X is ridiculous. It’s going to be a major shift in OS design, even OS X is going to be shown a few new tricks.
Not all readers or posters are Americans. I recall consoles first debuting @ that price range in Canada.
Indeed, I myself am in Montreal. But if I recall correctly, the consoles started at 450$CAN, which is a bit below the price range.
That said, I think one should assume that, unless specified otherwise, dollar values cited on “international” web sites are in $US…
umm, and what apps did you have problems running on OS X that were OS 9 apps? see there is a thing called classic environment that runs them and it works great for transition to OS X apps.
I’m not surprised Microsoft is following along. But they still have a long way to go to catch up to the cutting edge.
–EyeAm
“Rebel to the status quo!”
http://s87767106.onlinehome.us/mes/NovioSite/index.html
Yes, you a right, this is the correct description of the sence of the registry. And I can ensure you, I am ware of that facts. I had to repair many registries manually.
What I don’t like about the registry is, that this thing is a single point of failure for the whole system. If the registry is corrupted due to an error, every config is gone – dead – nada.
I am not against a structured, browsable format for app- and systemsettings (look at OS X (XML-like) .plist files – its the same concept). But I thik it is totally a bad design, that it is one single (binary) file that holds the complete system and applic configuration-information.
… because OSX transitioned so well from Classic MacOS. Oh, thats’s right, it didn’t.
For many people and companies, it did transition very nicely. My company had zero transitional problems with the change. And yes, Classic mode was the reason this went so well. I feel Apple did a very good job at this major change.
Microsoft “had to” adopt using Registry in order to prevent end users and would be software crooks from copying programs from one computer to another. It is done all in the name of making maximum money at the expense of reliability. Yes, as a business, Microsoft had no choice but to implement this troublesome feature.
That is why Registry is the Root of All Evil. Registry makes the world economy go around.
The runner up is DLL.
Microsoft “had to” adopt using Registry in order to prevent end users and would be software crooks from copying programs from one computer to another.
Yes, and so did Gnome.
A bit off topic but… I live in Quebec City but I previously lived near Montreal… I remember that the PS2 and the XBOX were about 600-650$ at their launch. I would not be surprised if the next-gen consoles debutes at $500 USD (about 700$ CAD).
That wasn’t the official price you’d pay from a Sony certified reseller, that was what the scalpers charged after buying out all the first shipment of consoles. The first batch of consoles for any new game machine is typically bought out by folks who turn around and resell them for twice the price. A few stores implemented a “one console per customer” rule, but most were quite willing to sell ten to fifty units to a single scalper.
<<Microsoft “had to” adopt using Registry in order to prevent end users and would be software crooks from copying programs from one computer to another. It is done all in the name of making maximum money at the expense of reliability. Yes, as a business, Microsoft had no choice but to implement this troublesome feature.That is why Registry is the Root of All Evil. Registry makes the world economy go around. >>
uhm, if in the comment there had been “PALLADIUM” or “TCPA” in place of every occurrence of “registry”, it would have had more sense(IMHO)
i remain convinced that the configuration database in itself and its very concept isnt evil nor the fulcrum of global economy: the proof is that several projects adopt a similar approach (Enlightenment’s Edb, GNOME, KDE’s Kconfig, then the unified configuration project on freedesktop.org…)
AIBT, OpenVMS too does use a “registry”, and VMS is considered the safest OS on earth…
AFAIK, the regserver has coherency checks and checkpointing not to loose *ALL* the config due to corruption (which can occur due to HDD errors, causing at most the loss of some keys – hopefully) …
PS: price of MS’ XBox (without games included) at launch here (Italy): 437 € … just for comparison 😉
people still seem to confuse the win9x registry with the windows 2000/xp registry, typical placebo effect. They’re two very diferent things, windows 9x had the registry on two files (system.dat and user.dat). Windows 2000/xp is diferent, registry lives on “\windows\system32\config” and “\Documents and Settings\{username}”, spread over multiple files (no more apps and system on the same file.
“it’s like their building 3d right into the core graphics engine… almost like as if you built something like openGL right into the core graphics of the operating system COUGH osx COUGH”
OS X doesn’t render its GUI using the graphics card. All it does is use it as a really fast blitter. OS X is still a 2D-based, bitmap GUI that uses PDF formatting to describe its interface. Longhorn will be completely rendering its GUI using the graphics card, which is a major difference.
But, as usual, morons who are happily ignorant about these things make baseless comparisons without realizing how wrong they are. There’s a big difference between this and between what OS X does, but hey, what does truth matter when you’re a rabid fanboy who must bash “M$” every day to feel secure about yourself?
Well, consoles might have been selling for that price when they came out due to high demand (and also scalpers…) but that’s clearly not an ideal range for game consoles, which benefit from selling the most units possible, even if they are sold at a loss.
I don’t think the next-gen consoles will be significantly higher-priced than the current ones (first release month notwithstanding). In fact, since Xbox2 won’t have a hard drive, it might actually be cheaper than the first one – while the PS3 might be more expensive due to its rumored four cell processors. This would be an inverse situation from the current one, where MS still loses money on every Xbox sold, while Sony actually makes a profit on every PS2…
Hé, Wrarat, j’aurais dû me douter que t’étais un compatriote avec ton addresse IP… 😉
“OS X doesn’t render its GUI using the graphics card. All it does is use it as a really fast blitter. OS X is still a 2D-based, bitmap GUI that uses PDF formatting to describe its interface. Longhorn will be completely rendering its GUI using the graphics card, which is a major difference.”
MS has said already that their system will scale to your video card’s capabilities, so that on older systems you will use the CPU when the graphics card cannot handle the effects that an application uses.
So no, the entire GUI will not be rendered using the GPU, it will still be as it has always been, partly rendered by the CPU, partly by the GPU. It’s just that for the first time in history, the GPU in the average computer is actually better then the CPUs capabilities (in certain ways). Back in the bad old days, most graphics cards were nothing more the frame buffers with a cpu to manage the frame buffer and do DMA. Now gpus can do much much more and only the user land programs have been able to take advantage of them as the OSes were written to the lowest common demoninator.
MS/Apple are changing the rules with their newest oses, by not writing to the mowest common denominator, but instead emulating the higher level systems on the slow ones (just very slowly). Like today, when you use an old iMac with a crappy video card ( ATI Rage ) it emulates what the high end (G5 with 9800 ) can do. The effects that they are emulating are not that intensive in general (like the minimize genie effect or translucent windows) but rather then not including the effect as part of the os Apple was forward thinking enough to include it.
MS is going to be playing catchup for a long time and the reason is that it had the impossible task of writing an OS that has to run software written back in the 1980’s and must run on hardware that it has never seen before in combinations that people never dreamed of. It costs MS much more then any other os vendor to develop its system because it tries to make it work on any computer. Unlike Apple (or Sun) who control the hardware.
I do hope that Longhorn will be what they say it will. But even if it is, then it will take a few years to actually see the benefits of the changes. Longhorn may come out in 2005/6 but us consumers will not be able to reap any benefits from it until 2007 or 2008 because of the lag time needed for developers to get on board. Which is why Apple is going to have such a head start, developers are already on board with the new spotlight technology, which will debut in 2005.
MS is going to be playing catchup for a long time…
Another OSNews moron spouting off bullshit. Its actually Apple that is playing catchup with Windows. See:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/gr…
Yes Virginia, plain old Windows GDI calls have been hardware-accelerated since the Windows 9X days. Every crusty old Windows 95 program has been able to take advantage of the GPU’s fast drawing routines for a looong time.
This will probably never get old! That being said, M$ has always had money as a priority over product robustness and security. They now got burnt by it and are now working on adopting a whole new way of doing business as customers have officially started getting tired of being taken for fools. This can be seen with the rapidly growing popularity of Linux users base (new OS and no need to change the hardware).
That being said, Apple has always been more on the innovative side, thus keeping it’s price fairly higher as well, which kept many users away for so long. They all have their good and bad points, but Microsoft has had a very bad history so far and they now have a lot of work ahead. OS X has shown many innovation, whether they make real full use of 3D yet or not is not the biggest issue, as they at least already paved the way so the ride will be this much smoother. I work in computer software research and development and one of my tasks is definition where I have to look at new technologies and see if they can improve day to day work or if we need create something new to do so. Windows still has a user interface based on a very old precept, not necessarilly adapted to today’s reality. OS X and Linux have much more going for them right now. Although many may not like OS X, the dockbar, rendez-vous, dashboard, spotlight… All these things are very well thought and actually do improve the user experience in the long run.
M$ will definitely come up with an answer to that, but the questions that remain are how stable and how secure this will be.
P.S.: Wrawrat et A nun, he moos, bonjour à vous! Il est intéressant de voir des gens de près de chez moi!