Linux Journal is running a telling chapter excerpt from the book, “Exploring the JDS Linux Desktop,” (O’Reilly) by Tom Adelstein & Sam Hiser. The excerpt is Chapter 9: “Using Windows Applications with Sun’s Java Destkop System”.
Many people remain blissfully unaware that you can run a growing list of Windows applications on Linux. This development may disturb a certain tidy model of reality but it represents the overthrow of a major obstacle to the widespread adoption of Linux, that of “Application Availability.”
Full Excerpt | Linux Journal
Using Windows Applications with Linux
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
I tried running many Windows applications (including games) on Linux with Wine, but in my experience only 5% of apps ran. The apps that worked didn’t work that well (window draw problems, sudden crashes, etc…)
To get apps to run more reliably you must run CrossOver. It allows a user to run office (and many ofth apps) on Linux reliably.
However, why do I have to purchase a plugin-in to run windows apps on Linux? Why can’t the open source community produce a better plug-in than CrossOver? OSS is always praised as being superior to commercial development, shouldn’t Wine be at least as good as CrossOver?
Yes, I’m able to run lots of applications with Wine and friends…
But, what about those apps that use Internet Explorer to render HTML? There is some way to run those with wine?
@ Dr.Boogooboomoochoo
CrossOver == WINE. CO just provides testing and tweaks everything to make sure certain apps run fine. Their changes to WINE should be merged upstream. Kind of like you have a Linux distribution, CO is a WINE “distribution”. Theoretically you could make all the apps run as well as they do if you had enough time to tweak everything and figure it out. They’re good at what they do so I leave that to them.
@Victor
IE can be installed and runs under WINE. What’s the problem?
You could make Windows apps run as well under ‘vanilla’ WINE as CrossOver Office does. You could hire a team of programmers, understand the intricacies of the Win32API, invest heavily in testing and provide a polished product that allows seamless use of Windows apps under Linux.
Why arent you doing it?
Don’t you owe it to me to do it?
So, wine is needed because there are some programs which are superior to linux equivalents.
Q: Do we have linux programs that are superior to windows programs?
You could make Windows apps run as well under ‘vanilla’ WINE as CrossOver Office does. You could hire a team of programmers, understand the intricacies of the Win32API, invest heavily in testing and provide a polished product that allows seamless use of Windows apps under Linux.
Yeah, so OSS is superior … as long as you’re willing to hire your own programmers. LOL! What a crock of shit.
So, wine is needed because there are some programs which are superior to linux equivalents.
Assuming you mean superior as in functionality (as opposed to religion), then yes, without a doubt. Even though some of the Evangelists would never admit to it ..
Q: Do we have linux programs that are superior to windows programs?
Yes, absolutely. I’ve been told that Linux excels at math & science stuff. Other than that, they’ve got some pretty kick-ass text editors and a very capable newsreader that I liked better than Agent. IMHO, it all comes down to what you need. Evaluate what each OS has to offer, and then choose the best tool for the job. Some people out there have found Linux better for their needs than Windows, and that’s great. Others like me tend feel differently
> Yeah, so OSS is superior … as long as you’re willing to
> hire your own programmers. LOL! What a crock of shit.
Either that or be a programmer, yeah.
OSS is by-the-programmers, for-the-programmers. OSS is primarily a concept that facilitates software development, and ‘users’ probably will get more attention paid to them if they can come up with some actual money.
I mean really, what did you think it was about? That the OSS programmers of the world are all slaving away to build you the perfect windows replacement so you can type your word processing documents?
This might be an eventual side-effect, but it certainly isnt the primary or only motivation for OSS developers.
Ok, this is great, but I thought Internet Explorer’s User Agreement forbides the use of IE in other system than Windows.
Has it changed?
..run linux on windows. http://www.colinux.org
Ok, this is great, but I thought Internet Explorer’s User Agreement forbides the use of IE in other system than Windows.
Has it changed?
I have no idea. But I’m sure I don’t care. CrossOver does it and AFAIK they haven’t had any problems about it. I believe they also offer protection for stuff like that.
An operating system being “better” is in the eye of the user. 2000 was supposed to be the year of the linux desktop. It’s ’05 and we still don’t see the hordes of people “switching”. Maybe by the time you’re an old man, linux will have a strong market share on the desktop.
I’ll stick with native linux, you just don’t pee in the pool.
OSS is by-the-programmers, for-the-programmers…
Well said! I am a programmer and for this reason alone Linux and BSD are far better for me than Windows. The tools and programs, and even the OS itself, were all built around my specific needs (well, not literally).
If you aren’t a programmer but want to experience a real OS, with all the feel good user apps, buy an Apple.
No, I’m not a Microsoft hater or anything like that. I’m typing this from XP. Microsoft’s OS has seen a lot of improvements lately, but regardless of the palace-like decorations and amenities you tack onto a shanty, a shanty it remains. At least that’s my opinion.
I don’t need any microsoft only compatible programs and I don’t think I am that rare.
Linux is free only if your time is worth nothing.
And Windows is never free unless you’re a pirate.
I think you’re making the common misconception that “Linux is free” means “Linux costs nothing.” That is not the meaning of free in this context. Repeating that misconception a will not make any less fallacious.
Free as in speech, not free as in beer, in other words.
What people fail to realize
is that Wine is there so you can quickly check a Word document looks 100% as intended to a new client
Or you can quickly check a DOM trick works on Internet Explorer alright.
Any person who uses Linux daily for work and home wouldn’t use a Windows-APP on Wine for productivity. Unless he is a desperate accountant and that one application only runs on Windows and on Wine.
Although I appreciate the effort of the Wine community and CrossOver – I refain as much as possible from using it unless it is the very last resort indeed.
Win4Lin confers greater compatibility – stability and speed but will only run Windows 98 (95/ME) apps.
Don’t overinstall with too many apps – and you are free to use Corel Draw whenever someones sends you a .cdr file with a Logo for you to fix.
Lastly there is Vmware – for those that program in Visual Studio .NET .. like Wine I avoid as much as possible from firing that up – unless compiling a DLL is absolutely essential. Sure MONO can do that – but I can’t take chances.
I don’t have to sell anyone Linux.
You are absolutely mad to chance Operating System if you are happy with yours.
But Linux confers me the best computing experience ever – absolute bliss.
Even its “Notepad” (KWrite) has intelligent highlighting for over 100 languages and script; and intelligent [+]/[-] expanding and collapsing of code.
Konqueror has a nice newsfeed.
Knotes works with RTF and KDE lets you configure things like adding extras buttons such as “stay on top”.
And that is just the start: choice + choice + (more free) choice always.
“Oh I can’t get Dreamweaver for Linux” – who needs that utter piece of crap anyway.
But if its your fave app: you dont have to give up Linux: use emulators.
Until MS produces a version of Linux, I’ll keep using MS Word and Excel on Crossover for file compatibility with work.
Actually, that’s not quite true: I tried the preview of OpenOffice2 and the Word Filter has improved a lot (the Excel filter was always pretty good). If they can improve the app performance, and complete the KDE integration, I might switch soon…
MS won’t produce a version for Linux.
They will hold out as much as possible – and even more – because tactically them porting MS apps to Linux; will make people migrate even faster.
For me CrossOver office has that function (I call it sanity test / quick fixes / botch jobs) .. I guess some people can get accustomed to the grey-alien look of Wine.
Take Macromedia Flash MX – now that was a lifesaver once; a client was desperate to have a .fla fixed; I had a trial version of the product and load it up on CrossOver and it did the job very well. I just unloaded after that 😐
Try TextMaker and PlanMaker from http://www.softmaker.de/index_en.htm
apparently it is more compatible than OO for many things.
But dont go by my word – do a run test they give you a 30day trial version.
I mean really, what did you think it was about? That the OSS programmers of the world are all slaving away to build you the perfect windows replacement so you can type your word processing documents?
Well, just about any time any kind of MS-related article shows up (esp on ZDNet), we’ll have at least 20 nimrods post and say that everyone should drop Windows immediately and switch to Linux. So, do they think we are all programmers?
As for me, I am not a programmer. I am a power user, so I use an OS that caters to power users (with the largest and best selection of desktop apps on any OS/platform), not an OS for computer geeks & elitists.
As for me, I am not a programmer. I am a power user, so I use an OS that caters to power users (with the largest and best selection of desktop apps on any OS/platform), not an OS for computer geeks & elitists.
I think that qualifies as flamebaits. By saying this you’re no better than the nimrods posting on ZDNet…
I am not a programmer. I am a power user. I’m a power user on Windows, and on Linux. Having the largest selection of software isn’t really an issue when most of that selection is crap. The few really good software for Windows have equivalencies in Linux, and for there rest there is emulation.
I use Windows and work and Linux at home. I never feel like my home computing is lacking compared to my Work computing. Both are different tools, and you can basically do everything in both environments – personal preferences notwithstanding (since this is about the time when you should bringing out CuBase…)
> Well, just about any time any kind of MS-related article
> shows up (esp on ZDNet), we’ll have at least 20 nimrods
> post and say that everyone should drop Windows immediately
> and switch to Linux. So, do they think we are all
> programmers?
I don’t know what your ’20 nimrods’ think, but I guess if you want to start adding to whatever problem you percieve there is my making disparaging comments about whatever OS it is that you don’t use, thats your call.
Don’t expect anybody to take you seriously though, nimrod.
I normally have little problem running OpenGL games with Wine, It’s a pitty most games use DirectX.
Well, just about any time any kind of MS-related article shows up (esp on ZDNet), we’ll have at least 20 nimrods post and say that everyone should drop Windows immediately and switch to Linux. So, do they think we are all programmers?
Another myth that linux has superior development tools. I’ve been programming on linux professionally for 7 years (unfortunately mostly C++), and for the most part until recently it was just Emacs and Vim. Now I love vim, but the point is that there’s still nothing like Visual C++. KDevelop is getting close. Even things like Eclipse (which are crossplatform) tend to run better on windows. For years, windows had far superior Java IDEs until IDEA and Eclipse cam ea around. You always have cygwin, which can compile the vast majority of unix open source and if that’s not enough you can run linux on windows via colinux http://www.colinux.org.
Frankly, it’s somewhat humorous to watch some unix people run around and act like command line tools are somewhat cooler, and real hackers only use command line tools. The computer isn’t there just to compile, but to also to assist in the development process by automating drudgery.
Just running linux software is too limiting for me, and I’m not going to turn an operating system into a religion.
> And Windows is never free unless you’re a pirate.
My laptop compaq nx9100 is already included Windows XP Pro OEM.
> I think you’re making the common misconception that “Linux is free” means “Linux costs nothing.” That is not the meaning of free in this context. Repeating that misconception a will not make any less fallacious.
> Free as in speech, not free as in beer, in other words.
Theoritically, yes, free as free in speech. But in reality, it’s not. E.g., If you want 100% free (like RMS), why you’re running MS Office on Linux? Musn’t you but the Office first (or pirate it), in which its EULA is limiting your freedom?
For me, as long as my job done, it doesn’t matter if I use Windows or FreeBSD (I use both).
My laptop compaq nx9100 is already included Windows XP Pro OEM.
—-
yes. you paid for it. the bill just didnt show it as a seperate item.
“Theoritically, yes, free as free in speech. But in reality, it’s not. E.g., If you want 100% free (like RMS), why you’re running MS Office on Linux?”
Linux, still is free. running MS office is for migration purposes
see winehq.org for glorious details about the importance of wine
Thats all well and good, but how about an article on running Linux apps on Windows?
The conclusion is that you are a posting a non sequitur only to spite people.
Love thy neighbor. Think about it for a few minutes. Let it sink and stop sprouting hate.
Open source is about wanting to share your programs with other people legally. It’s all about working together to solve common, often mutual, problems.
Stop criticizing and ideal. We have produced some kick-ass software and we’ll continue to do so.
Can you not build Crossover Office from source? Ideal if you just want to tinker, and not pay for support etc.
ftp://ftp.codeweavers.com/pub/crossover/office/source/
@JCooper:
You can compile that but what you’d get out is fairly similar to what you’d get from WineHQ – there are lots of other bits of code that are shipped with the real thing that is expected to be there. Also things like cxsetup, the menu integration, various magic settings for supported apps etc do not come with that source tarball (as they are proprietary).
That source download is like 99% of the Crossover code though, so if you want to see how it’s done by all means go wild … just don’t go around telling people you tried Crossover and it sucked, because you didn’t
Doc,
Currently I am running Knoppix 3.7 updated weekly on a Celeron 1.1GHz with 256MB of RAM.
Using Kernel 2.4.27 + Wine + cvscedega has proven to be VERY SUCCESSFUL for me, to run windows games.
the key is Kernel 2.4.x, when I boot using their 2.6.x (actually 2.6.9) Wine runs EXCEPTIONALLY slow when rendering ANY fonts. When using 2.4 it runs perfect.
cvscedega, to me, offers little over standard wine as far as speed in older games (all I really play.) I haven’t yet tried Warcraft 3 or Diablo 2, or other big name games, but according to Franks Page (a great resource for running Wine) they work.
Only differences between windwos + linux wine I’ve seen is occasional bugs and linux seems to require about 2-4x the processing power for games, ie, a game requiring 300mhz cpu in windows seems to only run ok on my celeron 1.1ghz in knoppix.
I am a huge fan of the Wine project and all of its work, as I feel that I should be able to walk into a computer store, buy ANY piece of software and run it on my Knoppix desktop (except for the newest games this seems to be a reality.)
While I like the concept of transgaming’s work, I prefer Wine because I want to support both applications and games, not just DX9.
My laptop compaq nx9100 is already included Windows XP Pro OEM.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but you still paid for it. The fact that the price was disguised in the overall price tag for the laptop still doesn’t make it free. Windows is never free (neither as in Freedom or as in Beer).
Theoritically, yes, free as free in speech. But in reality, it’s not. E.g., If you want 100% free (like RMS), why you’re running MS Office on Linux? Musn’t you but the Office first (or pirate it), in which its EULA is limiting your freedom?
The fact that I run proprietary software on top of Linux doesn’t make Linux any less free (as in speech). But that’s besides the point. Since you indicated money worth in your original post, you clearly meant “free as in beer”.
Oh, and my copy of Office was bought fair and square. It’s one of the reasons I continue to use it: I bought it, after all. And the EULA is only limiting my freedom with regards to Office proper, not Linux.
In other words, you got nothin’…
Hi you all,
What I wanted to say is apparently we all are desparatly needing Windows apps, so much that we need to go through the hassle to install something clumsy like wine.
The only reason my wife switches to linux is because she likes Mahjongg. All other stuff, especially internet, office and media related is much easier in Windows because it is more integrated. I mean, you don’t chat, you MSN. Yes there is gaim, but you need to add your contacts by hand.
To me, not to worry about viruses, to have terminal services, no costs and being bored with (repairing) Windows are reasons to be interested in Linux, although I’m getting bored and frustrated with repairing or fixing it’s missing parts (mp3, vcd, chat, connecting to Windows networks, java, whatever).
So maybe it would be nice to have something like Linux-Starter (a-la XP-Starter). Simplified, does everything you want, no change or damage whatever possible, and heavily integrated with internet services in the way MSN does.
Greetings,
Peter
Linspire is probably what you want then.
http://www.linspire.com
I use Gaim under Linux, and you are incorrect in thinking that you have to add the contacts by hand. I simply gave gaim my username and password on MSN, it connected and downloaded my vast contact list.
I have no idea of which version you tried, but I suggest you try an up-to-date version. or even try one of the others, aMSN is a good one.
“although I’m getting bored and frustrated with repairing or fixing it’s missing parts (mp3, vcd, chat, connecting to Windows networks, java, whatever). ”
hmmmm, I might throw together a quick tutorial on how to do this…. at least with Mandrake, if anyone else wants to tie up and do other distros, give me a shout.
“although I’m getting bored and frustrated with repairing or fixing it’s missing parts (mp3, vcd, chat, connecting to Windows networks, java, whatever). ”
You just cruise on by the Fedora Faq for info on adding all the missing pieces.
In fact, its all a yum install away.
I swear to god the next time I get some free time I am going to script the whole thing because it is so dead simple.
http://www.fedorafaq.org/
The only “missing” piece is adding the win32 dlls for mplayer.
Development tools != an IDE. An IDE is one tool, but Unix offers many more development tools than Windows does. Whether you like them or not is another story.
Q: Do we have linux programs that are superior to windows programs?
Yes, we have Gnome and KDE.
Don’t forget PostgreSQL. Just think of how much effort it took to move this really great *nix only db over to windows with the new 8.0 version.
Also linux has many great network and security software that either is not available on windows, or first started on *nix. SSH, kerberos, BIND, Apache, etc, etc, etc. Also the entire network stack for windows is based on BSD code.
Also, the GIMP has been ported from linux to windows. Can you think of a better FREE image editing program?
Also, you cannot ignore the OSS projects that have been highly crossplatform. OpenOffice, mozilla.
It seems that good products tend to be shared across both platforms.
Linux is free only if your time is worth nothing.
No offense, since I know you are just quoting a popular pundit tagline; however, I think this statement applies to nearly everything in life and even more so if you are unskilled at whatever you are trying to do.
Bottom line is it either doesn’t hold any water or holds just as much as every other activity on the face of this planet, and therefore is a moot point.
Gee, never heard that one before.
Look guys, if you want to be a computing professional, and you don’t have the ‘luck’ of working in either a microsoft or linux bubble, then you’re probably going to have to learn to use and appreciated the benefits of both systems.
If all you do is type word documents then that might be another story. For those of us that have to maintain networks, create VPNs, database servers programs etc etc at companies with limited budgets then both types of systems will come into play. Companies tend to have limited budgets and an even more limited idea of what it takes to run a successful IT department. It costs money to buy a whole bunch of exchange licenses when all you really need is sendmail. It also costs a lot of money in training and productivity to switch everyone one from using windows98 to using Ubuntu.
If your a professional then you will appreciate learning both, if your some kid living in your parents basement trying to program your on rewrite of commander keen, then maybe you won’t have to.
My own experience with Wine (not Crossover) is that I tried three applications (Miranda, Winamp, LaserAge) and none of them worked. Sorry, but that’s 0% so I’d rather stick with native Linux apps. (This knowledge is a few months old though).
Try reading my comment again. I said “superior” development tools..
a common misconception is that because you’ll have to learn how to use linux it’s a waste of time and resources.
The misconception comes from the fact that windows itself creates massive IT headaches from users trying to do things they can’t and completely crashing the system to an unusable state. (yes I know that’s still possible in linux, but not as a user typically.)
like word vs open office.
for average joe or jane windows, they are afraid of learning anything new. But they’ll probably ask you how to do things in word just as they would do in open office. The difference is in open office they’ll actually become more productive as the software eventually does not work against them. (by crashing every 15 minutes)
Gaim was Gaim for windows and I will check importing the contacts again. aMSN is horrible, used 50MB of RAM.
Linspire, I like their concept of Click ‘N Run, however never tried it. It is that in this country broadband internet is not very common or rather expensive (US$ 190 for 128/32 ADSL a month) so downloading a lot is not for everybody.
Raver31, The Fedora list to adjust is not that difficult, yes, and it would be great if there was a simple script to activate everything that is “missing”. Very kind of you to offer that. I think that small things like this can make a big difference, making it complete.
thanks you all,
Peter
>windows is as time consuming as linux
exactly
if not more so, which is my experience and why I’ve migrated to Linux but not completely:
I dont dual boot – but i have emulators if i had to deal with MS-related proprietory formats (Corel Draw, etc)
or fix someone’s Excel VBA macro.
I didn’t ditch everything MS (can’t afford to)
but I’ve re-adjusted my entire computing enviroment around Linux – so that if something MS-like does crash it doesn’t take the entire OS down.
I still can send emails, I still have my 6 terminals – also there is the security aspect, stability and peace suits me best.
Sometimes a Windows user can be more productive around a Linux environment than otherwise.
You mean in Ecuador?
That is the lil power of Linux just the console gives you 1000’s of one-line commands.
You probably need a set of CDs – if broadband is hard to get over there. I have Fedora on my laptop so from my experience I wouldn’t recommend it as a complete-starter distro.
Don’t get me wrong its not a bad distro – just not leaned towards being multimedia ready and utter-user friendly.
There are a class of such distros – the best if its not too trouble would be to order some half-dozen CDs (those @ $2) and test drive distro by distro.
While Yoper can be a bit of a hit and miss – do try it as it’s a distribution with a lot of things pre-installed (Java,Flash,codecs,plugins) or wait for the new version which hopefully will be even more complete.
The last resort would be to try a commercial version of a big distro multimedia-oriented such as Mandrake or Suse (which adds a lot of these things onto various CDs) – but price is dear.
Yes it is Ecuador…Chimborazo, as near to the sun as you can get!
Downloading OpenOffice or LTSP meant all night downloading on a modem and hoping it wouldn’t hang. I’ve subscribed to a linux-magazine from abroad with a DVD so that feeds me. Yoper is pretty OK, it is still on my laptop along with suse9.1 and SLAX. Suse is nice because is has a two big manuals in spanish. SLAX is a mini-livecd, a very good one and can be made spanish.
The thing here is that on every corner you can buy whatever software you like for a few dollars (dreamweaver, autocad, photoshop, xp, encarta) which means that Windows is easier to get than Linux (it only costs money when one has to repair their system because of viruses or user errors).
I belief Wine can’t make Linux compatible with windows, I think we just need some features or programs or content in Linux that are a lot better and fun than on windows.
For example, it can run of a USB-stick, you can modify it to your own language, you can personalize it the way you want. Add connectivity, chatting, SMS, music and photos and then one can show off to their friends.
That doesn’t cover the work environment. But hey, it’s weekend!
Peter
Yeah I know that in South America you can get *any* software at all for $1 or so at the market.
It’s all a means to an end.
If that suits you fine.
But Windows just gets buggier and buggier, all the excitment is gone – as the more applications you install – the more unstable and slower the system becomes.
If you are good at fending off viruses, trojans and the lot then all is well. Now that was something I was pretty bad at (hated the idea of forking more money for a firewall AND an anti-virus). In Europe software is very expensive
.. the costs keep piling up (MS Office, XP Pro, Photoshop, Corel Draw, VS STudio) …
And you can always have both OSes.
Again a means to an end – whatever you decide – Linux is there in all its shape and form, specialities and varieties.
If you research more you will find that almost list of requirements can be met. I am discovering things daily I never knew was possible.
Last thing, for Windows compatibility Wine is not recommended – there are better emulators out there such as Win4Lin (but sadly it costs money).
Have a good weekend