Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 18th Apr 2013 11:21 UTC
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless Nokia has posted its quarterly results for the first quarter of 2013, and just like the quarters that came before, there's not a whole lot of good news in there. The rise in Lumia sales still can't even dream of making up for the sales drop in Symbian phones, and when broken down in versions, the sales figures for Windows Phone 8 Lumias in particular are very disappointing. In North America, Nokia is getting slaughtered.
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RE[6]: Comment
by hhas on Sun 21st Apr 2013 15:48 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment"
hhas
Member since:
2006-11-28

"The damage phase is over


Now that's an optimistic view. Shrinking from the market leader to the market bottom indeed is positive since you have nothing to lose anymore. Good job done! Now they just need a to kill themselves so nobody can kill them any longer. What a clever business strategy!
"

Did you read anything I wrote? I already called out Elop for his well-intentioned but commercially disastrous Osborning of Nokia. If I was a shareholder I'd have been aghast at his "burning platform" announcement; yes, Elop was right, but you don't say such things publicly if you want to retain consumer and shareholder confidence while you're trying to fix it.

I already explained how Elop should've kept quiet about EOLing Symbian until their Win8 products were ready, and then burned it to bootstrap their new platform's user base, which in turn would've created more confidence amongst other shoppers that this was a strong platform worth consideration rather than an unknown quantity, an odd kid out in a sea of 'safe' Android products.

Nevertheless, the Symbian flight is done: they can't lose any more sales that way. So the Symbian->Win8 'transition' is complete; it just wasn't done in a way that would've retained their existing customers.


To reiterate: it wasn't the decision to adopt Win8 that did Nokia damage, it was a single premature public announcement by a newbie CEO. That sort of idiot slip can and does destroy industry-leading companies, no mendacity or Machiavellian machinations required: just ask Adam Osborne, for whom the "Osborne Effect" is named. And he had a lot more experience than Elop when he nuked his industry-leading Osborne Computer Corporation into the ground.

Win8 haters who willfully ignore all these non-technical factors and wider history just so they can use Nokia's fall as an excuse to trash Win8 and MS are being intellectually dishonest trolly trolly weasels. We get it, you don't like Win8 and feel personally betrayed by MS's decision to stop kissing your ass and try kissing somebody else's for a change. Tough titties, MS doesn't owe you a thing; and if you're still not happy FOSS/Linux is just over there: feel free to build your own.


"e.g. by aggressively pushing dedicated product stands


They could start paying rather then demanding money for there products. That could increase there sales figures a lot!
"

Now you're just being a dick. I identified a genuine problem with how Nokia products are being presented on the high street: scattered randomly across general product shelving where they're drowned in a sea of largely undistinguished uniform Android devices.

You think iPhones would be holding their own position as highly desirable premium products if Apple let stores treat their products that way? Hell, no, they buy dedicated shelf space from those stores and put up their own Apple product displays which they have designed and built themselves. And that investment pays them back, because when shoppers walk into the store they still see the same vast dull sea of Android devices, but standing out from it all is this ruddy great physical monument to the total and utter awesomeness of Apple products.

Apple and Nokia are both selling products that fly in the face of the Android orthodoxy. Apple seize their 'differentness' by the hairy ones and turn that seeming liability into a major selling point. Nokia marketing can run all the gorgeous high-profile TV campaigns it likes, but the moment potential buyers walk into a store, they see a glossy premium Apple iPhone stand along with shelves of 'safe choice' Android devices. Rummage those shelves long enough and they might find the Nokia handset they were thinking of looking at, stuck in there like the proverbial red-headed stepchild. Not the way to create a great first impression or reassure potential buyers that this is a platform on the rise, one they can really trust in.

Seriously, I may not be a marketing bod by trade, but I trained in art and have been around brand designers and sales types enough to appreciate that what they do (or don't do) is a critical factor in determining the popular success or failure of a mass-market product. Heck, in one job I even left the computer to go humph branded floor display stands into high-street shops and fill them with our company's products. Believe me, presentation makes a difference. Maybe if you put some effort into expanding your understanding of the larger world beyond your own nerd-centered comfort zone and personal preconceptions and prejudices, you might find something substantive to contribute next time.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[7]: Comment
by cdude on Mon 22nd Apr 2013 16:49 in reply to "RE[6]: Comment"
cdude Member since:
2008-09-21

until their Win8 products were ready, and then burned it to bootstrap their new platform's user base

Even after there Lumia got available in the market near all of the Symbian users switched away to something else, not Lumia. Nokia customers rejected Lumia while Nokia gave them no choice so customers switched to competition. That pattern continued even with WP8 Lumia. Close to all the loyal smartphone customers Nokia had, and that number WAS amazing, switched to competition. The same pattern still applies with there feature phones. Near all of there ex feature phone customers switched or are switching to competition when going smartphone.

Just get it, the numbers speak for themself: customers reject WP (not only Lumia, see HTC and even Samsung) and since Nokia has nothing else to offer (unlike all other mobile players) they are where they are: at the bottom, a struggling niche offer.

unknown quantity


It had one, no two, of the world-wide strongest brands assigned. Nokia had by far the most loyal customers. There customers looked at that forced "upgrade-path", at the product and active rejected to switch to something else. It can't become more clear then that that the Lumia productline was and still is active rejected by 98% of the market, probably 99% of ex Nokia customers.

So the Symbian->Win8 'transition' is complete; it just wasn't done in a way that would've retained their existing customers.

Exactly. The market leader, the number 1, goes by and changes its productlines while EOLing the previous product and all customers switch to competition. All that in 2 years. An amazing management mistake. Unique in history by size, speed and lost values.

Win8 haters

That, the position Nokia is in, was a management decision. Win8 wasn't even out then and haters gonna hate anyways. They didn't played a role during all that.

Apple

Come on. Comparing iPhone with Lumia and breaking the difference down to marketing? That's either blind or cheap. There is so much more.

Apple and Nokia are both selling products that fly in the face of the Android orthodox

For 20% Apple iPhone users and 2% Nokia Lumia users. The other 78% not agree with you :-)

marketing ... critical factor

One factor, there are many more. Marketing alone can't turn around everything what was just demonstrated again. This time by Nokia, Microsoft, AT&T, etc. I gonna say marketing will not save them. They need to improve the product.

Edited 2013-04-22 16:57 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[7]: Comment
by zima on Tue 23rd Apr 2013 21:37 in reply to "RE[6]: Comment"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Did you read anything I wrote?
[...]
Win8 haters who willfully ignore all these non-technical factors and wider history just so they can use Nokia's fall as an excuse to trash Win8 and MS are being intellectually dishonest trolly trolly weasels.
[...]
Now you're just being a dick.
[...]
Maybe if you put some effort into expanding your understanding of the larger world beyond your own nerd-centered comfort zone and personal preconceptions and prejudices, you might find something substantive to contribute next time.

He probably hardly read it (besides, look at his EN...); yes he just hates the new Nokia allied with MS; yes he is; and he won't venture out of his prejudices. Don't bother with him... certainly don't waste time writing such lengthy posts as you do.

Reply Parent Score: 2