Barrett sat down with CNET News.com editors to discuss global economic issues, along with how Intel will deliver new technologies and why companies should adopt them. He also mentions that their interest to Apple’s OSX is going down each year as Apple continues to lose market share with time.
Craig Barrett: Inside Intel’s Future
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
Everything I’ve read about Apple, they are “gaining” market share!!!!
Not really. If you look at the stats from many stat companies, they all agree that they went down to 2.2% from 10% they were some years ago. Currently, the situation seems to have being more stable for the last 1-2 years, at around 2.2-2.6%.
They were losing share for a while but the G5, and that laptops should have stopped that a quarter ago at least. The cheaper emacs and G4 power macs will also help.
Barrett, whose done less than a stellar job there, is scared just like billy boy gates. For the first time in a long time the two realize that apple and ibm are a threat.
Linux is not just a x86 thing either you know. Linux on powerpc could challenge mr barrett. On top of that intel’s transition to 64 bit is a flop. Apple and ibm lead them and their tranisition is working.
> Linux is not just a x86 thing either you know.
Yeah, right. Come on, everytime you read this or that was released for Linux, what does it mean? Is DB2 available for LinuxPPC?
The fact is most programs will only run on x86 only because they are closed-source and it is the most popular architecture. Whoever said Microsoft had a monopoly was not looking at Intel.
Barrett, whose done less than a stellar job there, is scared just like billy boy gates. For the first time in a long time the two realize that apple and ibm are a threat.
A threat to what ? The market is showing that proprietary hardware isn’t where the big sales are heading.
How is apple and IBM a threat to intel? IBM on the high end possibly but I don’t think Apple threatens Intel with anything.
Linux is not just a x86 thing either you know. Linux on powerpc could challenge mr barrett. On top of that intel’s transition to 64 bit is a flop. Apple and ibm lead them and their tranisition is working.
Not unless the prices on PPC hardware drop and it becomes a more open market.
“A threat to what ? The market is showing that proprietary hardware isn’t where the big sales are heading.”
No the market is showing that during a recession, high-priced items (apples) are more elastic than low priced ones (intel pcs and linux). That is economics 101 my friend. It is also showing that corporation want cheap products, not necessarily open sourced product. Open source represents less of a risk than say yellowtab but apple is an established firm. Apple with OS X and the backing of the blue beast (ibm) can now realistically target the enterprise segment. they are also targetting the work station and server segments that traditionally use intel stuff. the market is also showing that the sheep will follow the hype. I love linux but lets face up to the hype.
How is apple and IBM a threat to intel? IBM on the high end possibly but I don’t think Apple threatens Intel with anything”
Read above. Apple is going for share. IBM is going for share in desktops and a lot of other places that intel wants to be.
I seriously doubt Apple is that great of a big concern to Intel. They have more serious competition to worry about now, and same in the long run. Unless Stevie Jobs does something really radical, I don’t see them becoming anywhere near the same threat AMD is to Intel.
Unless you’re going to be able to run Windows on G5’s, than they’re pretty much safe. Of course, the distant future cannot be easily predicted at all, especially in this whacky industry.
As for IBM being a threat to Intel in the whole server and mainframe typa business, it’s more the other way around… And besides, IBM sells XEON’s and Itanium’s too… as well as Opterons. As well as make CPU’s for Apple. As well as support Linux. As well as support Windows Server 2003. As well as making laptops, which, again, mind you, are using Intel processors, that are in direct competition with the PowerBook’s…
IBM is a services company too ya know, and they’ll make money selling any hardware (except SUN maybe).
But for the desktop? IBM kinda dropped outa that a while back, and unless you can run Windows on the PPC970…
Yeah right.
No the market is showing that during a recession, high-priced items (apples) are more elastic than low priced ones (intel pcs and linux). That is economics 101 my friend.
Yeah I’m with you
It is also showing that corporation want cheap products, not necessarily open sourced product. Open source represents less of a risk than say yellowtab but apple is an established firm. Apple with OS X and the backing of the blue beast (ibm) can now realistically target the enterprise segment. they are also targetting the work station and server segments that traditionally use intel stuff. the market is also showing that the sheep will follow the hype. I love linux but lets face up to the hype.
I still fail to see how Apple is a threat to Intel.
I know not a single company switching to the Macintosh. I know many that have installed x86 servers running Linux lately.
is apple’s marketshare shrinking becasue they are not selling computers and loosing existing customers, or has the market expanded fantasiticly since they had a 10% marketshare and Apple did not move fast enough to capture new customers effectivly.
I say it is the latter, and I will bet that the 10% that Apple had back in the day is far smaller of an actualy number than 3% is for them today.
Most interesting is that Barrett says they are always trying to make design wins with Apple. I’m not really one of those people who keeps claiming that Apple needs to port to x86 to take over the world, but I could realistically see them release x86 Xserves. That said, I really don’t expect to see it, nor could I see Apple switching to a new processor architecture for the next ten years. After that, I think it’s anyone’s best guess.
Reading article I got impression that he fancies MacOS X
Ask and ye shall be answered. Click on my name, and see how the PowerPC marketplace is becoming more and more open, with the CHRP-based Pegasos motherboard as well as other systems arriving.
This whole article is about Microsoft crap, what an asshole the author is.
Apple must have some skunkworks projects and strategists looking into an Intel port. Actually this might be as good a time as any since the late ’80s, what with Longhorn slipping into ’07 and likely to run into customer resistance when it does ship. Lots of enterprise apps are browser-based these days, so if they can get an office suite they might satisfy a lot of business users looking for something easier to use than Linux.
But I don’t think they will.
By 2010, China will be the #1 computer market in the world.
And at that time, Apple’s global marketshare will be somewhere around 0.25% by then, perhaps lower.
As Sculley said, the #1 stupid decision he made at Apple was going with PowerPC instead of Intel.
Apple’s only hope for long-term survival is moving to x86, either Intel or AMD.
Apple is being fundamentally stupid in not moving to x86 and making all their apps available to 95% of the computer market. Their board of directors and CEO should be fired for incompetence.
A dual Opteron from Apple would hands-down be the best personal computer in the world. It could run a NUMA version of VMWare and host OS X86, Windows, and Linux at the same time with tremendous speed. With a low production processor such as the G5, Apple is destined for obscurity.
Oh well, what do you expect from low self-esteem culties?
Many would say Apple is irrelevant now, except as a sort of research lab for Microsoft’s desktop groups.
It’s easy to say that Apple should move to Intel (all or in part) but when you think of what they would need to do to make it successful, and how it would affect their business model, it doesn’t look so good. For starters, most enterprise customers who might be interested would want a dual boot Windows+OSX, and Microsoft isn’t about to make that cost effective. OEM’s like Dell have zero interest in helping Apple. Microsoft isn’t going to port MS Office, and other application vendors would probably wait and see before committing development resources. There’s a problem with availability of drivers and h/w support. Sales of regular Macs would dive. Existing Mac ISVs would be up in arms. Eventually, Microsoft will get its act together and ship a stable version of Longhorn, and most of the industry will rally around it. Sigh.
But that sure would be exciting. Come to think of it, it’s probably IBM that has strategists working on it.
intel’s model is based on using dominate market share in the pc industry to fund investment in fabs that one else can do. Thus they produce the fastest processors in the business,which gives them an easy consumer sell (GHz is just easy), nice juicy margins and they perpetuate of the cycle.
Now that model breaks down if intel’s share begins slip. Don’t get me wrong, i am not saying intel will die. I am saying that their margins will slip.
Apple has a very good chance to increase its market share. EVerything apple is doing is designed to develop new revenues streams. Once they get those (and they will get them), they can slash the cost of their desktops to go for volumes and share. the margins will come from elsewhere. Apple can and is developing an entire portfolio that includes high-end clusters, work stations, servers etc. Give it 2 years and you’ll probably see g4 power macs (mini-towers) in the $800-1000 range.
as for the powerpc. Its becomming more open and cheaper.
“By 2010, China will be the #1 computer market in the world”
yes the developing world is important but why do you assume that apple can’t play a role in it?
Why do also assume that powerpcs running linux, openbeos or whatever else can’t play a role?
In the recent past, Apple has lost enormous share in the overall Asian market, the #1 fastest growing market in the world. Apple’s current share outside of Japan is next to zero today.
Apple computers are far too expensive for cost-conscious China, Korea, Thailand, Vietnam, Malaysia, etc.
This is an important point which most richie USA Mac-heads do not get, so let me repeat it:
==> MACS ARE EXPENSIVE.
By 2010, Apple’s global share will be close to zero. Apple ignores the most important markets in the world and instead focuses on toys and entertainment like the iPod. What a waste.
Again, Apple’s CEO and Board should be fired for gross incompetence. Apple needs real business people running the company.
“This is an important point which most richie USA Mac-heads do not get, so let me repeat it: ”
here is one thing that you don’t get so let me repeat it
Apple can lower their prices and powerpc based machines sans apple’s involvement can be inexpensive.
“Again, Apple’s CEO and Board should be fired for gross incompetence. Apple needs real business people running the company.”
no i don’t think so. I just explained to you what apple is doing. The are building up high margin and revenue contributors so that their margins won’t rely on power mac towers alone. Once they achieve that they can push cheaper macs just about everywhere.
You can buy 3-4 laptops in Asia for the price of one 14″ iBook.
Even in USA, you can buy a laptop and a desktop for the price of one 14″ iBook.
Apple cannot compete on price. Their company and products are not designed for low cost. Every Apple product, from eMac to G5 is very expensive for what you get.
The basic fact of the matter is without economies of scale, Apple is doomed. And as Apple has once again opted out of using a popular platform (x86) and gone instead with a boutique processor from IBM… the writing is on the wall. Apple market share will continue to decline.
I am typing from Brazil.
-Will I be able to choose the parts so that I can tune the price and features of a MAC as I do in a PC? No?!
Forget about MACs in main Developing World market.
-Will I be able to choose buying a Mac without the OS? No?!
Forget about MACs in Universities and research in Developing World.
-When will an entry level MAC stop costing 10x what a PC could cost (with features that people really needs, I am not talking about exotic movie-making and such…)
I know, people. Or at least I can imagine… it is fine to have something that looks like a Ferrari, but I just need to survive in the trafic jam. A nice air conditioning that fits my budget will do.
And for Mac zealots, I am not feling bad that I am not able to buy a Ferrari. What you don’t know (and perhaps do not understand) is that most people here even if had money to do it would rather buy a Civic.
Think REALLY different.
So far I’ve seen NO movement by Apple towards lower prices around here.
Apple does not need to lower prices. They aren’t after the kind of customer that you are. They target customer’s that have “spending money” to blow on things that they want. That is the market that they are focused on.
Here is a decent example – Porsche. They sell extremely expensive cars for what they are. They introduced the Boxster to be their cheap car for everyone else to buy. The Boxster has make them teh least amount of money of any car they’ve constructed. Their customers with money t blow don’t purchase it because its not exclusive and doesn’t fit in with the kind of product they want to buy. While the “massive untouched” lower budget spender doesn’t buy it either because its “never” cheap enough to justify the cost or spending money.
Your approaching this from a “I want an Apple but its only worth it if I can get it close to or cheaper than a system I built myself.” Thats just not going to happen if you want to purchase it already built. So go ahead and build the hardware – you’ll be half way to your apple. Then spend the time to make sure every driver works perfectly, add in the features you want, write Quartz Extreme, Expose, Rendezvous, and implement all the iApps yourself. Just like making your cheap PC all it will cost you is time – you just won’t be able to half-ass the software like you do now.
I understand the first part of your contribution. It makes all sense (at least in cars market… I am not sure about computers in long run, but that’s another story).
As for the second part, specially when you write:
“write Quartz Extreme, Expose, Rendezvous, and implement all the iApps yourself. Just like making your cheap PC all it will cost you is time…”
why do you ever think people are utterly not served of the software and hardware they need, outside Apple? That’s the condition for what you wrote to make sense. Am I wrong?
No way I need Quartz Extreme, Expose, Rendezvous or whatever. At home or work. So why should I pay for what I will never use?
I had experience with Macs 2 years ago when I was in Europe. I’ve Never found anything on it I could not do (and generally faster) in a PC that would cost 2 less. Specially in my business which is Physics. Yes, I need number-crunching power.
Then, back to South America, the ratio of 2 for the price of a MAC goes to 5 or more. Crazy, not?
You know what I would like from Apple? I would love it really being able to compete with Intel and AMD so they would really bother competing with it and… lower their prices for us.
I am no family member of Apple, Intel, IBM or AMD.. I want them all alive and fighting to offer me what I need for the last cost (for me). Then I can work more (and even play with it in spare time).
Then I think if Apple would be more flexible it could get some money here in DW too. So far, even rich people here would not buy something they can not use, compare, exchange with their friends/colleagues.
Clear?
First of all, 1% of one market of (lets hope it will be there by 2010) about U$ 1,000,000,000,000.00 is, of course, a loooooot of money.
Second, and people neglect it quite frequently, the companies always try a lot more to adapt to the market waves then revolutionize it. What this means? If needed apple will DO change in what they, at least, think can drive them to the growth path.
And last but not least, they finally have an excellent product, the respect of their customers (as you can see in every “chat” site you go) and an image to the market of making oustanding computers. If you think a little bit, this is what make people buy Mercedes, BMW, Ferrari whatever. They do the same thing, but some of them, with better style.
And about Intel, as far I can see, they are in the more uncomfortable sittuation in years. They have pressure by all sides and their flagship processor doesn’t got traction. Let state it to be clear, it’s not about money, they have a lot, but the market now don’t see them as having the better technology, what is very bad for a company in this kind of business. I’m nothing saying they don’t have, after all, they got the alpha IP and working right they perhaps, can improve their processor flagship and change this perception.
Also, I don’t think I’m a appletroll (hey, I like that sound). In my home network I have 6 pc being 4 of them with intel inside.
I really laugh when i see this kind of meaningless statement:
“Even in USA, you can buy a laptop and a desktop for the price of one 14″ iBook. ”
Can you explain what you get with this kind of confuguration. Just try to be honest amd admit that Apple has made a lot of effort to reduce the price of their machines. The ibook g4 is really a good deal, you get a powerful hardware, a stand-of-the art os, and a complete set of powerful softwares , for video, music, photos and so on….. And you want us to believe that the iBook is expensive. Come on!!! Just check the price of pc laptops, you can not get something so complete for this price.
Same for the powermacs G5, check the price of Dell dual-processors Precision workstations or Dual opteron boxes, its much expensive that the dual-G5, and the G5 is really a impressive machine, not only in the processing power but also in the design.
Yes apple has lost market share during the last years, but somehow it is stable now, and they can really increase it. Its not easy for one compagny to fight with something as big as the pc market, but so far Apple has done a nice job in building MacOsX, for exemple. Apple has a lot of markets to sell their boxes, education, science, Pro creation, entreprise, personal computing….And even today 10-11 % of the total computers used in the world are macs, so a nice installed base.
Apple is not like Sun, as Baret said, Apple is in a better position, beause they sell much cheaper machines, they are serious competitor to Sun as intel is. And they have a wider range of activity. And anyway with MacOsX apple has a large space to move in, if necessary they can begin to use Intel hardware, but so far there is no need to do so, because ther are in the starting post to increase their market share.
Ask and ye shall be answered. Click on my name, and see how the PowerPC marketplace is becoming more and more open, with the CHRP-based Pegasos motherboard as well as other systems arriving.
Interesting stuff.
Classic problem when arguing about Macs and x86….people arguing on each camp don’t really use the other person’s computer. There are lots of examples just in this discussion alone, but here is a perfect one:
“No way I need Quartz Extreme, Expose, Rendezvous or whatever. At home or work. So why should I pay for what I will never use…..Specially in my business which is Physics. Yes, I need number-crunching power.”
So…..why would you even want a Mac? The answer is, you wouldn’t. Apple is not trying to cater to you, they don’t even want you as a customer. Apple’s computers specialize in digital media design, from capture, to creation, to editing, to production, that is what they specialize in. And they make the best software for those purposes. So you say “Why would I ever need a Mac?! I only play games and use MS Word!” And the answer is, you wouldn’t, and Mac knows that, and therefore they don’t care if you choose their product.
Also, to clear up some things, it has been said that Apple needs to port OS X to x86. I think that this came from this statement in the interview:
“The OS X kernel runs just fine on Intel. Just a matter of the app stack to stick on top of that. But you’ll have to talk to Steve about that.
OS X already runs on x86, and not just the kernel. Its called Marklar, and Apple had been keeping it up to date up until the G5’s were decided on (and they still may). But the thing you have to understand about Apple is that they will never release OS X for x86. Why? Because 99.9% of their profit comes from selling HARDWARE. If Apple released OS X for x86, could it potentially sink Microsoft and Windows. Yes. It most definitely could possibly do that. But, Apple’s profit would go down about….99.9% because of it (despite them having, potentially, 50% market share for OS’s instead of 2%). It would be financial suicide.
Apple defined what type of company they were a long time ago, back in the ’80s. They took a guess that the way personal computers were going to go was that the hardware was the definining point of the computer, and the OS was simply an interface, something not of any large importance. It was working out that way for a while too. Apple had a pretty huge market share, especially for home PCs. But then Microsoft released Windows, and more x86 based systems became available in addition to IBM’s line. This created competition in a market with high demand. So there was a TON of money ready to flow in, and the x86 based hardware systems all had to compete with each other, and had to lower prices. Apple had no competition, and did not lower prices.
If you haven’t watched “Pirates of Silicon Valley”, I HIGHLY recommend it. If for no other reason than it really shows the differences in corporate goals and agendas between Apple and Microsoft.
When you look at Apple’s market share, it is 0.5%, the percentage of Apple computers using OS X.
Over 75% of Classic MacOS users decided NOT to buy new hardware so they run the latest MacOS.
Apple will get the faithful to put out for the G5, but this is the last gasp of a dying platform.
5 years from now, “Act Different” (Linux) will be the mantra and Apple will be selling music and iPods, content to be a Sony wannabe.
So…..why would you even want a Mac? The answer is, you wouldn’t. Apple is not trying to cater to you, they don’t even want you as a customer. Apple’s computers specialize in digital media design, from capture, to creation, to editing, to production, that is what they specialize in. And they make the best software for those purposes. So you say “Why would I ever need a Mac?! I only play games and use MS Word!” And the answer is, you wouldn’t, and Mac knows that, and therefore they don’t care if you choose their product.
I agree with this. If a mac doesn’t suit your needs, don’t buy one! Its as simple as that. If the apps that you need don’t run so well on the mac, get something that it runs well on.
In the Apple world, the 14″ iBook is $1500.
1GHz PowerPC G4
256K L2 cache @ 1GHz
14-inch TFT Display
1024×768 resolution
256MB DDR266 SDRAM
60GB Ultra ATA drive
Combo Drive
ATI Mobility Radeon 9200
32MB DDR video memory
Not even doing ANY price shopping in the PC world, we have:
15″ 1.67Ghz HP notebook = $1000 (including printer)
HP Pavilion ZE4427WM Notebook PC & PSC120 All-in-One Printer
Mobile AMD Athlon XP-M 1.67 GHz processor
256 MB DDR SDRAM
30 GB hard drive
15″ XGA TFT screen
DVD-ROM/CD-RW combo drive
Integrated 56 Kbps modem
Integrated 10/100 Ethernet LAN
Windows XP Home Edition
2Ghz Athlon XP desktop with 17″ monitor = $500
Compaq Presario S4020WM-B Athlon XP 2400+ PC With 17-inch CRT Monitor
AMD Athlon XP 2400+ processor (2.0 GHz)
128 MB DDR memory
Built-in HP CD-Writer (CD-RW)
40 GB hard drive
Integrated 10/100 Base-T networking interface
Compaq CV7500 monitor
Windows XP Home Edition
Anyone who is spending real money can easily note that $1500 buys a heck of a lot more in the PC world than the Mac world. Not just two computers vs. one, but much more processing power and future expandability.
And note that there are literally hundreds of combinations of laptops and desktops in the PC world that add up to less than the cost of a single Apple 14″ iBook. One could go for two Dell machines for instance. With some shopping, one could even get two PC laptops instead of one Apple laptop.
There is only one conclusion: Mac is a ripoff, even in the USA. We know from some of the earlier posts, Apple is even greedier outside the US. Apple will never grow if they continue to have a giant price disadvantage vs. a wide range of computers that do the job and don’t come with the baggage of a giant corporate ego (and its 100% markup).
I was going to get an Audi TT then I found out I could get a
Kia Rio for less than 10 grand! They both go 75mph which is as
fast as you can go anywhere anyway. Audi is charging over
3 times as much!
Audi, as a quality automobile company, is dying.
Oh my gawd. Sigh. The pro content-creation market is not going to move to Windows overnight, the majority of the content you read in print, see on t.v. (thnx Final Cut Pro!), or perhaps listen to on your favorite CD had a Macintosh involved in the process. Thats not going to change anytime soon. Apple is /expanding/ not dying, look at the G5 and *STOP* comparing it to some knock-off Pentium 4. The things a Unix workstation offering higher performance (in most areas) then a Sun Blade 2000 for considerably less money. Mathmatica runs considerably faster on the G5, and look at those BLAST scores sometime. You’d need a small cluster of PCs to equal a single dual 2ghz G5 in BLAST scores alone. I’m not kidding. The scientific market is swallowing these things up, look at the University of Virginia – dying?! You must be ill. Five years ago if someone had said that a major US university was going to make a super computer out of brand new Macintosh computers they’d lock you away. But look around you now. Things are different. You can compare Opterons to G5s all you want (and I love Opterons, go AMD!) but one has AltiVec and the other doesn’t, and nothing in the PC world is like it. I mean come on, Dell couldn’t compete on price/performance to what Apple offered Virginia. There was /no comparison./ The G5 is a rocking little platform.
Goldstein mentions China alot, and it is indeed an emerging and powerful new market – but why doesn’t he bitch about “Dell is dying!” because I have strong doubts Dell will ever have much fo a presense there. China likes to do things their own way, they have their own distros of Linux and their own local computer makers. Apple has no where to go but up, their laptop market share is growing and thanks to the G5 I bet you my wicked little soul their desktop market will bounce back too.
Intel really is in more trouble then Apple, and based on current market domination that might sound insane but look at the horrid mess that is Itanium. They shoved a knife deep into their own throats because they hated competition – how is the Itanium any less “closed” then say IBM’s Power series? Oh, because Intel says so. HAHAHA. Unless someone clones an Itanium, its “proprietary.” The Opteron is considerably newer and yet has already vastly outsold the Itanium (which has been in the market for how many years?). The single most open platform is Sun’s SPARC, bar none – no comparison. I always giggle at Intel’s lamenting the “closed” Sun platform. Intel, in raw greed, hated seeing companies like AMD making clones and wanted it their own freaking way. They refuse to share. You cannot build your own Itanium box, and what is the possible excuse for that? Its as if they want to be maligned. Merced was due in 98, I remember reading about it around ’95 when I was in school. Intel has no where to go but down, AMD stands to gain considerably.
Apple – is – not – dying.
Show me something in the PC world that can even compare to Final Cut Pro, show me a PC that can equal a single G5 in BLAST scores and other scientific apps, show me a company thats dominating the online music world so thoroughly – yeah, your right – my god their dying! HAH!
The car analogy has gotten really old. And it never worked in the first place. The automobile industry has very different dynamics than the computer industry. If anything, buying an Apple is like buying an Audi for top dollar only to find that underneath the pretty shiny TT body lurks a bunch of cast-off VW parts that are from cars made years ago. No wonder the first TT models were death traps. Takes a lot of work to get those old VW parts to go 75mph without flipping over.
I’m all for Mac culties going out and spending money on brand image and hype. It’s the Macintosh Way. Don’t let your low self-esteem get riled up just because you shop on basis of image and fluff instead of substance and value.
Just say “I bought a Mac because I can afford it and most people can’t. And that makes me feel special.”
Just say “I bought a Mac because I can afford it and most people can’t. And that makes me feel special.”
Err…no. I bought a 12′ powerbook because it is the cheapest laptop that met my needs. It is:
-small
-good graphics card
-sturdy and well made.
-good sound (for a laptop)
Instead of moaning about how expensive macs are, why don’t you spec me out an x86 laptop that is small, solid (i.e. not plastic), has a decent graphics card (none of that intergrated junk), and costs less than the Powerbook 12′.
Don’t get me wrong. I love my PC because I’m far more familiar with it, plus there are loads more Linux apps for x86, then they were for PPC Linux (which I dual boot with). But for the money spent, the Powerbook is definitely the best buy for my needs.
man goldstein listen up.
Apple is a customer of ibm/motorola. They buy power pcs. Intel could care less about the future of apple. they are concerned about the future of the power pc. apple right now is the most signficant customer of the power pc but there are other os’ that run on it and they don’t carry apple’s tax.
The powerpc platform can become very successful with or without apple. That is ibm’s intention. They don’t want to tie themselves exclusively to apple.
As for china, well the chinese are traditional very inclined to think about the actions of their purchases. Together with the S. Koreans and japanese they are now working on an opensourced OS.
Why in heavens name do you think that the chinese or indians will run to support intel? Why assume that the alliance that is giving birth to a new os or distro (china, s. korea, japan) won’t support other hardware?
x86s are inefficient and expensive chips to make. china and the developing world could do just as well with an arm processor running something light and cheap. same goes for power pcs (light and cheap). and then there is heat and power consumption. Not everyone in the world is completely self-centered or endowed with massive cheap energy (or stupid enough to think they are) to run silicon ovens as computers.
if anything intel is missing the boat in developing nations by building expensive chips with processing power that goes unused. Intel is only in the game because no one else in that industry makes any kind of margins so the overall cost is palatable.
Hexydes wrote:
“But the thing you have to understand about Apple is that they will never release OS X for x86. Why? Because 99.9% of their profit comes from selling HARDWARE. If Apple released OS X for x86, could it potentially sink Microsoft and Windows. Yes. It most definitely could possibly do that. But, Apple’s profit would go down about….99.9% because of it (despite them having, potentially, 50% market share for OS’s instead of 2%). It would be financial suicide.”
So Apple could sink microsoft and take is place (I assume) yet they won’t because they would lose money?
You’re serious?
I honestly though that windows sales alone generated more money than apple all together… but maybe I’m wrong. Maybe microsoft doesn’t make that much money after all.
Take care!
Gein
Geez, someone needs a history lesson. Anyone remember OS/2 or BeOS??? IBM’s ad campaign for OS/2 “A Better Windows than Windows” proved to be so successful, no one bothered writing OS/2 Apps. OS X on off-the-shelf Intel would be most likely follow the same trajectory and be relegated to a specialty dual-boot OS for running iApps.
What would I as a software company gain by writing a Mac OS app when that same customer could run the Windows version via dual boot or some type of virtual machine???
Hard to believe people want to run OS X on Junk Hardware.
Apple’s are built better, have better architecture, especially the G5 line. But, even the laptop’s don’t give you cheap parts.
I own an HP AMD processor machine, yes, it’s fast, generally, but it’s fantastic AMD processor is accompanied with a cheap “XP” graphics chip that can only play MS games at 640*480 resolution at 25-15 fps. Piece of shit.
Yes, you can buy cheap hardware but if you want to run OSX you have to buy Inexpensive Apple Hardware.
Secondly, Apple isn’t at war with Linux. They fully support your warrenty with no hassle if you run http://www.YellowDogLinux.com.
Third, as a Web/Developer I Love the fact I can run 3 OS’s on this machine. Do I need to? No, just for testing. I run under OS X 98% of the time. But, it’s great to have the option.
Forth, Windows XP Home edition doesn’t have Wireless support. That’s in Windows XP Professional. So, no you can’t compare an Apple to a Windows OS without comparing XP Pro.
Cheap Hardware can’t give you the benefit of a vertically integrated company. The Apple OS supports the latest hardware standards in software in the Highest Quality.
If Time means nothing to you then buy cheap junk and run Windows. If Time is the thing you have in shortest supply Apple is the Best Solution.
Apples are about optimizing the Total Experience.
Goldstein, interesting stats you got there. Tell me, how much is Dell charging for one of their PCs that runs FinalCut Pro? Or DVD Studio Pro v2? Or OS X?
Yeah well maybe Apple’s global market share might be decreasing, but it’s not decreasing their current prophits.
And besides rather than getting into this rambling argument. Your OS is your tool, use it love it whatever. I just find this game a little old, it’s almost as stupid as watching two mechanics scream red faced at each other because they both use different brands of tools.
You get what you pay for. I use a G4 and drive a mazda rx-8. Granted another cheaper car or an x86 computer can do everything my stuff does. What I have is a great user experience. Partly I enjoy them because most people do not nor will they. I feel the price is fine on these machines because they give me a great user experience. Apple is about quality and integration with its products. Sure there are cheaper products availible, but i would rather buy once for 5 years then buy every two years. I dont play games so there is nothing that i feel apple does nt let me do. To me its not just about money. Its about the experience. Lets us not forget that I have never had a problem with Mac in the two years I have owned it. Never had to call apple once, never had to worry. I even voided teh warranty by modding it and yet it still goes. Price is what you get out of it, not what you put into it.
Apple will have a hard time competing with PCs in the developing world particularly in the Far East. Many PC components are manufactured cheaply in places like China and Thailand. What’s going to appear more attractive to these countries? Buy well-engineered but “closed” Apple machines? Or encourage the PC market to grow? A market where businesses can choose from muliple PC and component vendors (some of whom originate in their own country) and which offers far more scope for the expansion (or creation) of local businesses.
All i can say is you get what you pay for. If you want to pay only $400 for a PC and additional for software then go for it. My Mac has only crashed on me 1 TIME IN 2 YEARS and that took oh 30 seconds to recover from with no damage done.
Everyone I know who bought a cheap PC is experiencing problems and complaining to me day in and day out about something crashing some piece of hardware not working right, on and on and on and on.. it’s really annoying.
Yes some Macs are more expensive but only if you specifically go for the incredibly high end machines. Look I can do the exact same thing PC people have been doing with Macs in reverse:
Dual 2GHZ PowerMac G5 – $3200
Dell Dimension 8300 – $4,982
Plus the fact the PowerMac G5 has 2 processors more powerfull than the Dell’s 1 3.02 Ghz Pentium 4. Better Yet i could do what some PC Magazines do and list the components in the cheapest build option and list the most expensive price.
There are cheap Macs out there, you DO NOT have to even get them from Apple. There are iBooks, iMacs, eMac’s,etc all of which are cheap and you get quality software with it. Something Windows horribly lacks, Windows may have more software titles but I don’t know anyone who uses 3,000 different Word like programs or anyone who even has 1 million programs on their PC.
With Macs you get QUALITY hardware and software that the PC world lacks. Don’t get me wrong there is a lot of good x86 hardware out there, but most PC companies don’t push it because they have to sacrifice quality for a cheaper price. I guarantee you if you buy a cheap or good PC and then tally up the costs of software you have to obtain to equal that of what comes with Macs, you actually are paying a lot $$$ more.
Please don’t spread dumb FUD comments around here. Use a Mac for a month (really using it) and talk to Mac users more than willing to help people and you’ll find Macs are far better on quality than PC’s. I have yet to own a PC or use one that worked well all the time, yet my Mac has never failed me.
Apple REALLY screwed up with the way they market OSX. Its the loaded gun to the head upgrade approach that upsets most people (If you want to run OSX you WILL buy what ever hardware we say or you can P#ss OFF). I was a mac user and advocate for about 15 years but not anymore. The day they killed the happy mac icon and made all machines boot OSX only was it for me. I now go out of my way every day to tell as many people as possible to avoid apple at all costs and have nothing to do with the mac. Im not a microgarbage lover either, my network now is a mixture of Linix, sun and sgi boxes. My other major complaint is the calling OSX UNIX , X is absolute CRAP. If your a REAL UNIX fan avoid OSX
Brian Moore wrote:
“Geez, someone needs a history lesson.”
That comment was for me? I didn’t get it, but maybe that was because I’m not a native english speaker.
What I said is, if Apple passed Microsoft in number of sales (like Hexydes said it could, easily) there would be no problems! Neither with apps nor driver support. Soft and hardware houses develop for the most popular platforms be it windows, macos, beos or whatever. Problem was that beos never got to be popular.
Gein
Just about every data company on Earth has said Apple is losing global market share every day.
The CEO of Intel says in public that Mac is becoming irrelevant due to lack of share. For liability reasons he is not going to lie and say anything that cannot be backed up with data.
The fastest growing market and soon to be largest market in the world for personal computers is Asia (not including Japan) where Apple has effectively zero presence.
The only argument Mac-heads come up with when faced with facts is “you pee-cee people are lying” or “you pee-cee people haven’t used a Mac”. The response pattern is very similar to substance abusers.
You’d have to be on drugs not to understand that over time, Apple will have more and more struggle to be a viable commercial enterprise. Having 0.5% of the personal computer market (OS X market share today) is not anything to be proud of.
The few good apps that run on Apple are all so highly specialized that very few people use them. It is not a strong foundation to base a company on. Underneath the hype, Apple has no strategy for maintaining a broad base of users.
Even if sites such as OSNews post unpaid advertising (the recent Mac sales brochure from ELQ), it doesn’t help widen the base. Most people simply cannot relate to what Mac offers. They don’t run around and film videos all day. Or make playlists and sync their iPods. Most people just need a basic computer to do basic stuff. The amount of great software on Windows dwarfs what is available on Mac. Mac hardware costs much more than Windows hardware. Most printers, modems, and other hardware accessories work better with Windows than with Mac.
At the end of the day, the consumer is left with no viable
reason to buy a Mac. They work for a living after all and don’t have the luxury to purchase expensive computers and prognosticate on how everyone should eat cake.
At the end of the day, the consumer is left with no viable
reason to buy a Mac. They work for a living after all and don’t have the luxury to purchase expensive computers and prognosticate on how everyone should eat cake.
Yeah, whatever. You sound like someone who really wants a mac but can’t afford one. If you think they’re expensive, don’t buy them. Simple as that.
Others buy them because they meet a need, and don’t cost a bomb. You’ve moaned about how much macs cost, yet you fail to mention that you’d be very hard pressed to find an equivalent speced x86 laptop for the same price as the 12′ powerbook, or even the 12′ iBook.
Better stop taking those grapes….
Some comments…
I can make a PC cluster that runs much faster than any MAC. Cheaper than any MAC.
Virginia University is not the Scientific Community.
Probably Apple needed this case to show something. Wherever else in the world it will probably not happen much.
I didn’t say that Apple is dying. Here in Developing World it is already dead. I would like to have it being born.
And, please, don’t say cars market are the same as computer market. You don’t send any product o your automobil via email to your colleagues, let alone receive a commented reply… except maybe a photo.
Ah… who said in order to have Apple going down you need Dell going up??? Dell is not the PC industry.
If you want speed in math calculations you will use Fortran and Matlab, never Mathematica!
More: IMHO, the expression: “you get what you pay for” is old-minded, lazy and absolutelly not creative.
“Dell Dimension 8300 – $4,982 ” I can build a small cluster (with PC parts, not MAC) with this ammount of money. Why would I buy a Dell??