“Mandrakesoft, publisher of the Mandrakelinux operating system, today announces adjustments in the 2005 Mandrakelinux release schedule. Several changes will occur: (1) a new release cycle for retail products, (2) a new naming scheme, (3) the integration of Conectiva’s technology into Mandrakelinux, and (4) the immediate availability of a transitional product.” Read the rest of the press release here
Mandrakesoft Announces Changes to Mandrakelinux
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I, for one, amexcited about this. Linux release schedules are WAY to hectic for the real world. Nobody outside tech circles has the time and/or energy to keep a Linux box current without hosing it.
I think this is a great idea and wish them luck. Plus, it should allow for major changes from version to version, which I believe should translate into more sales, better stability due to longer incubation, and a better reason to upgrade.
this version will provide up-to-date and newly released open source software, including KDE 3.3, GNOME 2.8 and Firefox 1.0.1.
Err… Newly released? Up-to-date?
It would simplify my work at home on my home network if I have a rough idea on when updates/upgrades are coming.
Great news, but will there be a free download version? anyone?
yes, GNOME 2.8.3 is a pretty new release, as was the last minor release of KDE 3.3. We never said it was the *newest* version, did we?
so for a translation into the terms most people were familiar with…10.2 = 2005, 10.3 = 2006 (and some Conectiva stuff in it), and from then on, annual releases, keeping the Community / Official structure.
tom: well glad to hear you like the plan, but you do actually know that with the current schedule. MDK’s been on a six month release schedule ever since it started, and it’s been stuck to fairly closely. Up till now, you always knew the next release was coming six months after the last one.
Yes, there will *always* be a freely downloadable version, this has always been an MDKsoft policy. 2005 and 2006 will both be available for free download on the same schedule as 10.1. ISOs available to Club members immediately on release, and to non-members a month or so later. The entire tree will be available on the mirrors immediately upon release, so you’ll be able to do an FTP install at no charge right away, or wait for the ISOs if you prefer that. Don’t know about x86-64 yet, it was a shame there was never a free ISO release of 10.1 for x86-64, I’ll try and find out about 2005…
OK, thank you for your information, this is great news.
What conectiva stuff?
We finally know how Connectiva is going to be integrated in Mandrake. That’s good.
The “limited” status of MDK 2005 will impact the company however, as those who needed a new version of Linux will probbaly not put MDK 10.1 or MDK 10.2/2005 in their shortlist. Novell will smile until MDK 2006 is released as it is the other leading KDE-based distro.
It is to be hoped that MDK 2006 will be of high quality and that the delay until MDK 2006 will be used to do a lot of quality testing. Otherwise it’s not for just 6 months that Mandrake will make Novell smile, but 12.
Had Mandrake not released a “limited” 2005 version, but a fully supported version, things would have been different though. This is a tradeoff probbaly linked to the limited staff resources they have.
That press release says nothing. What they hell are they talking about? What apps do they have?
There’s a website http://www.conectiva.com which redirects to http://www.conectiva.com.br which has it’s own distro, but unfortunately I don’t speak pork and cheese, I mean portugese, so it’s no help.
Does anybody know if the so called “transitional product” is going to be avaiable as free download or only to Mandrakeclub members?
Very good. Conectiva acquisition was good to Mandrake.
Conectiva Linux alwas had release cycle bigger than Mandrake, with a period of one year approximately.
I think these 2006 edition will come with Conectiva’s smart (the apt-rpm successor) as package tool and a better KDE (Helio Castro from Conectiva is one the most important KDE developers).
what does Connectiva have that Mandrake not have?
must be mostly some distro specific config tools? (right?) afterall GNU/Linux is GNU/Linux is GNU/Linux…
Mandrake sure changes their mind a lot, is their CEO female?
kidding. But mdk sure has been flailing its arms so to speak trying to find a nitch. They have some smart people there and what is needed most is for them to lead in some direction. For the most part of their history they have only been treading water. They need a vision instead of watching everyone else then adapting, sure it keeps you alive but you’ll never grow.
Hope this new marketing campaign works out for em.
I for one would prefer if MDK adjusted a bit their release schedule to follow the KDE releases closer; people who bother to pay for the PowerPack usually like up-to-date software, and to see the other distros putting KDE 3.4 while MDK is still stuck on 3.2 sux.
I am a long MDK user but lately I moved to Kubuntu just because of KDE 3.4 (OK, their graphical sofware installer, Kynaptic, is better than MDK’s too), but I would love to go back to Mandrake someday, when they catch up.
I wonder if Mandrake will change their mind about a free downloadable version. Now since they have merged with Connectiva, I wonder if this will change?
I wonder if their boxed sets will go up in cost…
Conectiva is a very popular brazilian distribution who born as a “tropicalized” version of Red Hat Linux, with strong internationalization for pt_BR and es.
Years latter Conectiva follow an independent path from Red Hat and begin innovating with things like:
1) apt-rpm as the official tool for install and update packages. All the official repositories are apt-able.
2) use of the MI (modular installer) for installation. Installation is made in 2 steps: first a basic system is installed on hd and then synaptic (yes, the same tool used after system is installed) is used to make package selection. However, Mandrake’s installer is slightly better for hardware detection and permits additional system configuration.
3) Conectiva (before version 10) used linuxconf as the main configuration tool and Conectiva Linux 10 uses webmin as the main tool.
4) Conectiva use i386 rpms like Red hat and Fedora, while MDK uses i586. Thus, Conectiva Linux can run on 486s and 386s.
5) For portuguese and spanish people, Conectiva Linux still has better internationalization than other distributions (even more than MDK), including ready pt_BR and es packages for man pages, many initialization scripts, OpenOffice and Mozilla/Firefox/Thunderbird.
Oh, kinaptic is also a tool developed by Conectiva and synaptic development started as a Conectiva’s idea.
So, now Mandrake has longer release cycle. I consider it as normal – so they have more time to put into technologie, their draktools, and so on.
Also, I found that there was also no difference between mandrake 10.0 and 10.1 …
the only big changes are : updated kde, updated gnome.
But, hey! : if they are clever enought, they will deliver new kde and gnome in mandrake club.
For me, I use gentoo now, because I like to have a distro which is allways up to date. It’s also the case that I’m not afraid anymore to change config files. Perhabs other people will also do it, because they want the “brand new kde
and “brand new gnome”. But all this is more hype as something else – 6-9 month more developpement in gnome or kde doesn’t make “everything so much better”. Also bleeding edge users aren’t the one who are soooo important, because at most they buy a boxed version, are even only download the iso’s and give nothing back to mandrake – nether money, nor code.
Company will _love_ the one-year release cycle, and they are important, because they have lot of money.
So for me, this release cycle makes sense.
And even if I use gentoo now, Mandrake has a “place in my heart”, because my linux experience began with Mandrake…
KDE Primary contact in South America:
Helio Chissini de Castro
Window Maker:
Alfredo Kojima
kernel:
Marcelo Tosatti (working at Cyclades now)
ACME
+ apt4rpm, Synaptic, smart, Crystal Icons, i18n for Portuguese and Spanish(Latin America).
thank you for you information about connectiva!
But I’m not realy sure, what mandrake will do with that technology.
1) apt-rpm as the official tool for install and update packages. All the official repositories are apt-able.
*Mandrake have urpmi. No flame now! The software is good, and Mandrake will surelly look which one of both is better. Both get the job gone well. There is also an other software to install package developped from connectiva which name is “smart”, but I’m also not sure : Why should mandrake switch?
They should rebuild all packages, test them, and put them again on the mirror, that would take months, only to get the same : installation taking care of dependencies.
(please! no urpmi vs apt-get war! I’m sick of that! It’s like comparing two colors, and say which one is the prettiest!)
2) use of the MI (modular installer) for installation. Installation is made in 2 steps: first a basic system is installed on hd and then synaptic (yes, the same tool used after system is installed) is used to make package selection. However, Mandrake’s installer is slightly better for hardware detection and permits additional system configuration.
*I allways liked the installation methode of mandrake … it’s easy, but also powerfull. It uses drakxtool, which are programmed so that they also can be used on the command line (ncurse interface I believe).This is quite important. And it’s internationalizable (not everyone speaks english!)
But installation is not sooo important. Most important is 1)that it get installed
2)that it recognizes your hardware
3) Conectiva (before version 10) used linuxconf as the main configuration tool and Conectiva Linux 10 uses webmin as the main tool.
*linuxconf was also used by mandrake… but not anymore I think. And webmin is still used in mandrake and also supported, do urpmi webmin.
4) Conectiva use i386 rpms like Red hat and Fedora, while MDK uses i586. Thus, Conectiva Linux can run on 486s and 386s.
*Are there people here who still use linux on a 386, or a 486 ? Is it really a strong point?
5) For portuguese and spanish people, Conectiva Linux still has better internationalization than other distributions (even more than MDK), including ready pt_BR and es packages for man pages, many initialization scripts, OpenOffice and Mozilla/Firefox/Thunderbird.
*Internationalisation : yes, this is very important. I can imagine it’s there mandrake will be able to take the most out of connectiva
Finally, I don’t think Mandrake bought Connectiva because of the software. The software from connectiva is under gpl . Apt-get is under gpl, they could have use it before. Also their artwork is under GPL. I think they bought it to have more presence in spanish speaking countries, and because mandrake and connectiva share the same idea about linux and community…
See the smart page for smart x urpmi x other comparison:
http://smartpm.org/
why smart (in README):
http://linux-br.conectiva.com.br/~niemeyer/smart/doc/README.html
“Finally, I don’t think Mandrake bought Connectiva because of the software. The software from connectiva is under gpl . Apt-get is under gpl, they could have use it before. Also their artwork is under GPL. I think they bought it to have more presence in spanish speaking countries, and because mandrake and connectiva share the same idea about linux and community…”
Yes, but Mandrake was interested also on Conectiva’s developers, who are creative. And Conectiva acquisition was very cheap for american and european standards.
“Yes, but Mandrake was interested also on Conectiva’s developers, who are creative. And Conectiva acquisition was very cheap for american and european standards.”
I think, your are all right
Perhabs developer in Brazil also don’t get as much money as in France … (Thought I’m not sure about this!)
in many ways, 2005 is a full release. It’s really 10.2, it’s had a full dev cycle and everything. The only difference is there will be no box sets distributed through retail, and therefore (obviously) the support *that goes along with those* won’t be there. But all the support you’d normally get with the freely downloadable or Club versions will happen; there’ll definitely be full bugfix and security patches, like with all previous releases. So don’t bother too much about the ‘interim’ status, it mostly refers to the no-box-sets and the fact that it’s the final release before the transition to the new schedule.
conectiva stuff – I don’t know
. What I do know you can get off the Cooker list. The author of smart is already quite involved with Cooker development, and the MDK devs are quite impressed with it. Rafael (urpmi maintainer) has said he’ll consider using it as the default package manager some way in the future. Right now it’s still missing several features urpmi has, but overall, it’s liked. You can use it on MDK right now if you feel so inclined, it’s in contrib for Cooker and 10.2 beta / RC releases.
helloworld82: there were lots of other differences between 10.0 and 10.1…five kernel revisions, implementation of udev and hal and a complete change in the automounting code, to name only the first that spring to mind. But never mind
. The changes aren’t really aimed at companies, Mandrakelinux isn’t the product that is aimed at companies. That’s where Corporate Server and Corporate Desktop are aimed, and they have their own development, maintenance and support policies. Mandrakelinux is about normal users, mostly.
I posted my own thoughts on the new release schedule at http://www.happyassassin.net/ . Not based on any particular inside information (of which I have…v. little), just what I think about a 12-month cycle for MDK in general.
“helloworld82: there were lots of other differences between 10.0 and 10.1…five kernel revisions, implementation of udev and hal and a complete change in the automounting code, to name only the first that spring to mind. But never mind
. The changes aren’t really aimed at companies, Mandrakelinux isn’t the product that is aimed at companies. That’s where Corporate Server and Corporate Desktop are aimed, and they have their own development, maintenance and support policies. Mandrakelinux is about normal users, mostly.”
Ah, ok, They are difference between 10.0 and 10.1, I don’t say that nothing changed. But the differences are only as big as 5-6 months can permit it. They are a few new things that are nice, ok. New kernel, more hardware support. HAL/DBUS, udev… But it feels only like a “service pack” or something like this.
Linux-softwares are getting so big that you need time to see some differences between releases. Think at firefox, openoffice, gnome, kde, gcc . 6 month release cycle is badly adapted to the linux software that is getting so big. Hey, I’m also thinking that the differences between gnome 2.8 and gnome2.10 are not so big … generally I need to look at the “about-panel” to see which gnome is installed, I don’t see it at first look.
But it’s a good thing, it shows that sofware matures under linux.
“Mandrakelinux isn’t the product that is aimed at companies.”
I think, they trying to change that
HAL is not in 10.1
It is part of gnome 2.8+ and part of KDE 3.4+
That being said it is very important to people who want to use usb pen drives and cameras. This is the reason I switched from mandrake to fedora.
“”Mandrakelinux isn’t the product that is aimed at companies.”
I think, they trying to change that”
No, we’re really not, if we wanted to aim MDKlinux at companies we wouldn’t have bothered making a big push on Corporate Server and Corporate Desktop
. ‘normal’ users have always been a big share of MDK’s userbase, they’re very important, and the base Mandrakelinux will always be developed with the needs of ‘normal’ everyday computer users in mind.
@anonymous (attbi)
hal *is* in 10.1. it’s not “part” of KDE or GNOME, it’s a low-level system which can be *utilised* by KDE and GNOME (in addition to lots of other things).
Yes but it is not used by kde 3.2 in 10.1, nor gnome 2.6. Udev is in 10.1 but hal is not.
hal-0.4.0-2mdk.i586.rpm
is in MDK 10.1 contrib. You’re right in that not a lot of stuff in MDK 10.1 really _uses_ it (inc KDE and GNOME, we used magicdev for automounting in 10.0 and 10.1), but it’s there.
Ok, I was not talking about the non-supported contrib repository. Many gnome madrake users will be happy to have hal with this next release, but kde users will have to wait for the 2006 release and kde 3.4. The new release cycle will be great for businesses but I suspect it will cause mandrake flight for desktop users (–> ubuntu, fedora, suse). Although, once linux desktops gets to the point where huge jumps in useablity are not being made every 6 months I think their release cycle will be just fine.
For 2005, gnome-volume-manager handles automounting and media insertion on both GNOME and KDE (it really doesn’t have much in the way of GNOME dependencies and will happily launch KDE apps, so it’s a decent fit for KDE). So hal is actually used in 2005’s KDE. g-v-m will automount drives and run appropriate media players in each desktop (kscd on KDE, gnome-cd on GNOME, totem on GNOME, kaffeine (I think) on KDE, and so forth).
Remember, the 2006 release is actually on the old six month schedule, it’s happening in early winter 2005, not in 2006. So not too much of a wait. The 200*7* release will be the first that’s really on an annual schedule (i.e. twelve months after 2006).
“For portuguese and spanish people, Conectiva Linux still has better internationalization than other distributions (even more than MDK), including ready pt_BR and es packages for man pages, many initialization scripts, OpenOffice and Mozilla/Firefox/Thunderbird.”
I’ve heard, from people i know, many complains about a bad Spanish internationalization of Conectiva Linux.
Maybe, I am brazilian (i speaka portuguese, not spanish) nd I cannot judge the spanish internationalization of Conectiva Linux. And Conectiva is also a brazilian company and naturally the main target is Brazil.
I’ve decided that, over the last year and half, that really frequent, fast release cycles are a bad idea. They just lead to buggier releases. A full featured Linux distro is a very large piece (or a very large collection of software pieces), and getting it all working correct, with hardware compatibility, is not a trivial task.
I have Mandrake 10, and it seems to be one of least buggy and most stable of recent releases. However, 10.1 has had nigging little issues, and 9.0 and 9.2 had, apparently, show stoppers.
I’ve also used Mepis. Mepis 2003.10 is a very solid, bug free, stable easy release (if a bit long on the tooth). It works great, and even though it features kernel 2.4 and KDE 3.1, it is a pleasure to use. But SimplyMepis 2004 turned out to be very buggy for me. I first had a release candidate, then the last release of 2004 (.6). I had major problems with both.
Fedora Core is another prime example. Both 1 and 2 had big issues. 3 seems pretty solid.
What do each of these have in common? A six month (or less) release cycle.
We Linux enthusiasts can get over eager for the “latest and greatest” and thus eat up fast release cycles. But that comes at a price – bugs and instability.
I’ve now decided that I prefere more of yearly release cycle. This, as AdamW eloquently pointed out in his blog, is more of realistic release cycle, in order to iron out the bugs.
Besides, a sixth month release cycle typically only provides small incremental improvements or feature additions.
So, in short, Mandrake is making a smart move with it’s 12 month (yearly) release cycle. I hope more distros put on their breaks and follow suit. It’s nice to get the latest bells and whistles, but it’s still always Linux, and stability and bug free computing are ultimately more important and more enjoyable.
I applaud Mandrake for having the guts to do this, as the pressure to “keep up with the jones” has to be very high. Maybe Mandrake will be trend setters. 🙂
This is good stuff.I wish them well and will continue to use their product.
Don’t know about x86-64 yet, it was a shame there was never a free ISO release of 10.1 for x86-64, I’ll try and find out about 2005…
Good one 🙂
OK, so I got my confirmation. future MDK releases _will_ still be available for free download, 100% official. for 2005, Club members get it first, then people who pay to download, then it will be available as a free download (time period between these measured in weeks, not months). I assume same for 2006 and on, but definitely, there will be free ISOs. so can everyone relax now?
If MDK-Community Edition (or whatever they will call their free version – I couldn’t read the article yet) shipped with KDE 3.4, because otherwise a lot of people will migrate to Kubuntu and other KDE-based distros that are gaining mindshare and following KDE’s releases closely.
Except than a few techno geeks, I can’t imagine someone switching between distros simply to get the latest Gnome or KDE set. IMHO, the main reason for switching distros is curiosity and open mindness. But if you start developping and doing hard work with Linux, switching is a time consuming and tiring task.
Of course, you can also ten-boot between ten random distros on your hard disks…
I don’t think that MandrakeLinux’s choice will make them loose many [real] users.
“I can’t imagine someone switching between distros simply to get the latest Gnome or KDE set.”
I (temporary) switched from Mandrakelinux 10.1 to Aurox because the latest gnome-version available through urpmi was 2.6 and there were many many improvements over 2.6 in gnome 2.8. But I think I will switch back when a new version of Mandrakelinux is out.
It may work and be no issue “as-it-is” on MDK official, but on Community and Cooker you need to download some SIXTY MB of crap before even trying to install/upgrade new software from main /contrib /jpackage /PLF. This is plain unacceptable, as you can update the repos in other releases (say Debian and spinoffs) in way shorter time, and in Arch Linux (and its superb pacman manager) withing fragments of a minute…
It’s not “crap”, it’s a new version of urpmi. urpmi is set to install updates to itself and its supporting tools (perl-URPM, rpm) before anything else, I don’t see what’s wrong with that. You should not expect anything else with Community or (especially) Cooker, they are both unstable branches. I’d be very surprised if debian and arch don’t recommend you upgrade pacman and apt-get to latest versions before upgrading other packages, if newer versions are available.