Home > Zeta > Zeta OS is rising from BeOS ashes; Haiku News Zeta OS is rising from BeOS ashes; Haiku News Submitted by Kian Duffy 2005-03-22 Zeta 40 Comments NewsForge offers a preview of yellowTAB’s upcoming Zeta 1.0 while elsewhere, the Haiku app_server is now able to draw to screen, accelerated, under Haiku. About The Author Eugenia Loli Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker. Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli 40 Comments 2005-03-22 6:34 pm this is great. cant wait till they get to a beta release. 2005-03-22 6:41 pm Looks like zeta 1.0 might not be that bad. I might have to give it a whirl 2005-03-22 7:07 pm http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=223&slide=1… 2005-03-22 7:16 pm Plus, very few of us want to subject ourselves to the bondage of proprietary software. I assume that “very few of us” doesn’t include the hundreds of millions of people using Windows, or tens of millions using Macs? Linux and other non-proprietary operating systems are growing very quickly, but they’re still a very small minority. As for Zeta, good on them. If they (or the Haiku team) can extend BeOS, it could be a nice alternative for people who don’t like Windows (I’m an OS X junkie myself) and don’t want to mess around with Linux until it becomes a more polished product. 2005-03-22 7:22 pm BeOS ready for a comeback? I’m happy to see something happening with BeOS again. Features are: very fast OS (responsive GUI, quick filesystem), easy to use & set up, works good with older hardware and great with newer hardware (check hardware support before buying). Will have most of the essential software for practical use. Check http://www.bebits.com for extra BeOS programs. I only wish someone would port over OpenOffice to it. I have not tried out Gobe Productive, but other people say it is pretty good (maybe outdated?). Will have to check it out. Firefox 1.0 (for Bone) runs good on BeOS 5. I hope BeOS catches on with others, because I sure like using it (& am sure others will too). I’m typing this message on an older smp machine running BeOS 5.04 Dev w/Bone installed 🙂 2005-03-22 7:23 pm Is there somewhere I can read an overview over what-is-what in BeOS land? I heard there were two “follow up” versions, one open source and one other (Assuming that is Zeta), and one of them suspected of containing stolen sources from the original, but the whole thing is a bit confusing. I actually tried a Bebox in.. about 97, I think, but then of course it was Be, Inc.. It is a bit like the state of the Amiga. I used to follow development to around 97-98, but then I fell off, as there were several vendors and products, and now when I see Amiga news it is hard to know what-is-what (Confusion caused by among other things the different Phase5/Haage&Partner PPC platforms, Transmeta, Boxer, the vacuum cleaner, coldfire, Fleecy Moss, Gateway, AmigaONE, Amiga games for WinCE, Tulip, the “amiga on x86” thing that was not UAE, etc, etc). Any pointers to a “The story so far” on both of them would really be appreciated, and probably by more people than me. 2005-03-22 7:39 pm All BeOS-“people” should join forces, this OS concept is just too good to rest in peace. Pleazzze !! 2005-03-22 7:41 pm I saw BeOS many years ago on ZDTV’s The Screensavers, it looked amazing. God, I miss the old shows when they were a technolegy station. G4techtv sucks!!!!! 2005-03-22 7:56 pm I hope yellowtab is successful with zeta but i am a lot more interested in haiku. the open source aspect of Haiku suggests more of a future to me at least. 2005-03-22 7:59 pm Good news for Haiku. I’m so anxiously awaiting a beta version. I wish development was faster, but alas I know it takes a lot of time to code a project, and even more for an entire OS, so I’d best guess in a couple of years. 2005-03-22 8:05 pm Try out gobe. its really nice. could be called “a bit outdated” but still a very nice program. 2005-03-22 8:43 pm GrooveMaker 2.0 among the Demos in Zeta? What for, I wonder. GM 2.0 for BeOS isn’t on sale anymore anyway. 2005-03-22 8:49 pm So, do they have the kernel source now, or not? 2005-03-22 9:05 pm How easy/hard is Zeta’s installer, in a computer with Linux and Windows? Does it put a boot loader, for example? 2005-03-22 9:08 pm That theme makes me cry. 2005-03-22 9:27 pm it becomes an open source OS. Until then its just another proprietary OS that only a few will toy with. 2005-03-22 9:28 pm zeta, as with most versions of beos, is very easy to install.. it uses the BeOS bootmanager “Bootman” which can be installed optionally at the end of the OS installation. It will boot linux, windows, os/2 ..you name it. If you dont want to use it just tell it to not load it and you can boot beos/zeta with lilo or grub or whatever. 2005-03-22 9:29 pm I had bought BeOS 5.0 some years ago for like $79 or such. Came with a BeOS Bible. Very cool OS. You can install fresh or you can have it co-exist with Windows. To co-exist with Windows, you boot windows first and then run the BeOS installer exe from within windows. It contained its own disk partitioning tool ( resized my Windows FAT32 partition so I could make space for BeOS ), installed BeOS onto that and also installed the Be Boot loader that let me select Windows or BeOS. How cool is that. The OS was super responsive and media functions were limited by fast. I could move, resize a video that was playing on the older hw without any noticeable delay. Hardware I tested was: Athlon Thunderbird 1GHz with 384MB RAM, with 120GB HDD. ( this is still my computer today triple booting WinXP, Linux and BeOS. I rarely use this however since I’ve switched to Mac OS X on a Powermac G5 1.6Ghz, 512MB RAM ) 2005-03-22 9:30 pm Hope this helps you out. Keep in mind Zeta is newer than the versions I provide below & Zeta should be a better experience to use, since many apps bundled with it. The best versions to try out BeOS (before looking at buying Zeta) or switching are (in order) (OS download links below): (1) BeOS Dano or PhOS release (considered to be illegal versions). Be Inc. leaked release. (v5.1) (2) BeOS Max Edition (v5.0.x) (recommended for install) http://www.bebits.com/app/3892 http://www.bebits.com/app/3148 (3) BeOS Developer Edition http://www.bebits.com/app/4058 (4) BeOS Personal Edition*** (v5.0.x) http://www.bebits.com/app/2680 ***Personal Edition (PE) is *not* an install. You just start it from Windows or Linux (or with boot disk). Just 1 file (easy to remove/delete). PE does not support Athlon XP, early P4s or over 1 GB RAM & less hardware support (compared to the other editions listed). If you want to install to hard drive, then you should get #2, since it has more improvements & hardware supported, #1 is closer to Zeta, but don’t think it has been updated (since leaked) because of legal issues (so might have same limitations as PE). Once BeOS is installed get BeOS programs from Bebits (http://www.bebits.com) (ie: Firefox, etc.). Extra Information (from what I can recall). BeOS 5.0.x (PE, personal edition, DEV, Developer Edition) -Made by Be Inc. -final x86 release to public -Uses Netserver (older networking package compared to BONE). BeOS 5 Max Edition -Basically BeOS 5.0.x + bugfixes, hacks, + improvements. (BeOS) Dano (or Dan0?) -leaked version of BeOS 5.1 (from Be Inc.) -considered to be an illegal version (available on Net for download). -Uses newer BONE 7a for networking/internet (improved functionality & options). PhOS -based off of Dano (BeOS v5.1) -Should have few minor changes -Almost exact to Be’s Dano THE NEW BeOS are: Yellowtab’s Zeta (http://www.yellowtab.com) Haiku BlueEyedOS (or BlueOS) Zeta -The new, mainstream BeOS -The official next BeOS (made license agreement with Be Inc. before sold to Palm) -Based off of Dano (BeOS 5.1) -More polished look, more apps bundled with OS, bug fixes, improvements,etc (compared to Dano) -Yellowtab may release 500K live cds in July (with a computer Mag) Haiku & BlueOS -Still in development -Will take time to release a final version -Not worth looking at right now (could change in time, but doubtful). 2005-03-22 9:32 pm Installation is very easy if your hardware is supported. Yes, Zeta installs a decent boot loader. If your hardware is not supported (which happens quite often), forget it, it will not work, not even will very much fiddling. And yes, GoBe does work, but it is unmaintained and there will never be any updates, so be prepared that as soon as MS changes something related to the office document formats, it will no longer work. Neither Zeta nor Haiku contain any stolen source code. Some original BeOS source code was leaked, but nobody uses it for obvious reasons. Haiku is a clean room implementation and Zeta is based on original BeOS source code that yellowtab has licensed from Palm. And I agree, OOo for Zeta would be a much better choice than GoBe because it is actively maintained and developed, which GoBe is not and will never be (no source code available to anyone). But this has been discussed before. 2005-03-22 9:35 pm I guess what’s pathetic is people who fuel Intel AMD wars buying hardware that really isn’t required for what you do daily. I can run all my necessary apps perfectly on the Athlon 1Ghz without any problems. Even DVD ripping works. Leave it overnight or use clonedvd. Ok, takes about twice as long. But who cares when you leave it overnight. Due to ignorant people, they keep making confusingly named newer cpu’s that really serve no purpose. 2005-03-22 9:37 pm It’s interesting to note that Haiku are reverse engineering a closed source system just so that they may be BINARY compatible with previous versions. Linux applications and drivers break between minor kernel upgrades, and Linux has been open source from day dot. At the end of the day, which OS do you expect average users would prefer to use? A system where they have to constantly recompile their core apps/systems, or a system which just works. Lots of pieces of the Haiku jigsaw should start coming together now that the Kernel is bootable from hard disk. A few of the kits are waiting for private kernel interfaces before they can continue and bring the status to 110% feature compatibility. And all of this will allow binary compatibility. I’m truly amazed. Well done everyone. 2005-03-22 9:52 pm Thank you for a great answer. It is all becoming much clearer now. 2005-03-22 10:56 pm As it seems BeOS is great in Multimedia on low ressources, is it possible to build a pc based entertainment centre of it. Maybe using an via EPIA board or something similar. Should work as HD recorder, including time shifting and all the fancy stuff with electronic program guides. Playing DVD,SVCD,DIVX,MP3 and whatever else and being able to burn DVDs and CDs. All that on a easy install and a good gui would be exactly the thing i am searching for. 2005-03-23 2:44 am Make sure you’ve got drivers for everything. 2005-03-23 2:46 am “I saw BeOS many years ago on ZDTV’s The Screensavers, it looked amazing. God, I miss the old shows when they were a technolegy station. G4techtv sucks!!!!!” I saw that old episode on Screensavers as well. That was very cool. I do agree that G4Techtv sucks. They got rid of all the good technology shows and it is nothing but a video game channel now. 2005-03-23 3:11 am Are they still alive? 2005-03-23 3:46 am BeOS is optimized for multimedia, but it isn’t ready for a full fledged media pc. Mainly it lacks the applications (& maybe even some hardware drivers). Also, you need to check if your hardware is all supported. BeOS supports DivX, Xvid, Mpeg2, Mpeg1, MP3. You may find a program for tv capture too. But you will be limited in choice for apps to use (with 1 or 2). (Hopefully in the next few years this will improve. Same thing happened for Linux in the beginning too, limited support & apps, until it became more popular). You are better off going with Linux (or Windows) for a media pc, because more drivers and applications to work with. Lots of Linux distros out there to choose from. Check out http://www.distrowatch.com There is a page hit ranking showing which distro people have checked out the most. You’ll have to see which suits you (I personally wanted to try out Vector because it sounded interesting, but Mepis, or “other” may be a better choice). Check out a couple & see which you like. Distrowatch also lists links to reviews for different distros which you can read about. Everybody has their own preference for a distro. Look for a lean version bundled with just the essential packages. Myth TV (for Linux) is what you’ll want to run. http://www.mythtv.org/modules.php?name=MythFeatures 2005-03-23 8:41 am And how well will a reverse-engineered system perform compared to the original? At the end of the day, which OS do you expect average users would prefer to use, a poor performing one with no apps available or a well performing one with hundreds of apps on a distro with 6 CDs that can be downloaded for free? You see? Nobody has to constantly recompile his core apps/systems and Zeta is binary compatible with BeOS and just “works” because close to nothing about new functionality was added since BeOS’ death. How amazing it is that Windows ME (=Zeta) is binary compatible with Windows 98 (=BeOS). Congratulations! 2005-03-23 10:41 am Why would a reverse-engineered system be necessarily slow? It’s not like they waving around disassemblers and then convert the assembly code by hand to C++ or anything. They have nearly the whole BeOS API documentation (BeBook) to start with and to my knowledge they try to replicate the behaviour of the libraries, kernel and system programs, not clone them. When they finally have a working system (R1), the next step is to enhance, add features, optimize. I don’t quite follow your logic here, by the way. The exact same applications that run on Zeta run on Haiku (or actually will run . The task the Haiku developers have set to accomplish is huge, and it’s a small wonder they have come this far. I’m looking forward to seeing the project completed one day. 2005-03-23 11:13 am > Zeta is binary compatible with BeOS and just “works” > because close to nothing about new functionality was > added since BeOS’ death. Well, unless you count the new kernel rewrite, BONE (not available in R5, except as a closed BETA), the partial app_server rewrite, the OGL and new media kits… um… well, yeah, nothing changed. The whole point *was* to keep BeOS (and Zeta is a rebadged BeOS, not a clone) compatible. They achieved this on PowerPC since 1996 and on intel since R4.0 (’97 or ’98?) If you knew the _real_ truth about Windows “compatibility” (i.e. that M$ employs engineers to “make” legacy software run where it wouldn’t normally – including making special one off routines/changes/hacks to the subsystems to allow it to run) you’d be far less impressed. 2005-03-23 1:22 pm heh, yeah, didnt they introduce a bug into one of the windows versions memory management so simcity would run? 2005-03-23 1:59 pm “…don’t want to mess around with Linux until it becomes a more polished product.” How about giving it a try. At least a LiveCD 2005-03-23 2:10 pm I’ve said this before… I think Zeta is overpriced for the value. If it sold alone (without the license to the application suite that I already own) for about $49.95 or even $59.95, I’d be willing to take a chance. At $100US+, it’s too much money to spend on an OS to play with… 2005-03-23 2:54 pm Brown2 I’ll wait until it becomes an open source OS. Until then its just another proprietary OS that only a few will toy with. Helf That is very pathetic. But you are entitled to your ‘opinion’ I guess I agree with him (Brown2). I am awaiting Haiku, and am worried which way Zeta may fork the BeOS path while Haiku is still playing catch-up. Even though Zeta has restored the commercial aspect of BeOS, I think it could do damage as well. 2005-03-23 3:50 pm Started using BeOS in ’99, never planned to make it my main OS. I had a new computer and thought it would be fun to play with, and I had a 2nd HD specifically for playing with Linux/alt. OSes. Surprisingly, I found myself using BeOS more and more – ironically, it gave me less hassle with my hardware than Win98 did on the same machine (E.g., it was significantly easier to get the tuner portion of my old ATI All in Wonder card working in BeOS than Windows). Then, a two years ago, my hard drive died. At the time, I was dependent on some hard-to-find software (my DSL provider only worked with BONE, and my Radeon only worked with the leaked 3d drivers at that point) which I was unable to get ahold of again, so I decided I’d try switching back to Windows and install XP. Just couldn’t do it, though – Windows is too clunky after using BeOS for a while. These days, I compromise by having 2 machines and a cheap belkin kvm switch. The funny thing is, even though my Windows machine is an AthlonXP 2600 and my BeOS machine is a P3 450, there are still some things that are significantly faster on my BeOS machine. E.g., seeking in video files in VLC. 2005-03-23 6:47 pm my sentiments exactly (this also mirrors my willingness to ue eComStation, but the price is prohibitive for messing around purposes only)_ 2005-03-23 7:09 pm $100+!!!!!!!!!!!! 2005-03-23 7:29 pm I used to like BeOS but have not really followed it since Be Inc. went under. I decided I wanted to try Zeta and with exchange rates it cost me I believe about $130 and I’m glad I did it’s a good little OS that just works. 2005-03-24 2:54 pm Another reason to love beos… I trashed my win partition at work, couldn’t rescue anything with win or linux tools. Booted beos, mounted the win partition and recovered most of my documents and all of my e-mail.