A few weeks ago, we reported an odd discovery in Microsoft Edge: a poll asking users to explain their decision to download Chrome. A similar thing is now haunting OneDrive users on Windows, demanding to answer why they are closing the app. And demanding is a correct word here because Windows will not let you quit OneDrive without answering first.
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
This company has a consent problem, this however being one of the smaller and less significant examples of such behavior. Hot tip though: when interacting with anyone who does not respect boundaries or take “no” for an answer, the best course of action is _always_ to put as much distance between yourself and them as possible.
It really is toxic behavior, and it does not get better.
kbd,
These are called “Dark Patterns”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_pattern
And they are designed to frustrate the user to give up, or at least confuse them to choose the wrong options.
Unfortunately even at Microsoft sizes they are not regulated, and except very few of them they fly under the radar. (Discontinuing paid subscriptions were similar, until very recently, where they are now forced to have simple web based opt-outs).
Microsoft knows what it is doing is wrong, but mostly they don’t care because dark patterns are effective.
The windows 10 upgrade was another example where microsoft did this. They repeatedly harassed users and every time they changed the interaction that users would need to in order to decline. For example, some versions you needed to close the window, but in another version closing the window got recorded as the user granting permission.
https://www.pcmag.com/news/microsoft-gives-woman-10000-for-forced-windows-10-upgrade
Many customers will give consent willingly and that’s fine, but actively using dark patterns to trick users deserves class action lawsuit IMHO. Otherwise these companies will keep doing it.
Alfman,
“It is better to ask forgiveness than permission” is probably the operating keyword here. They measure the response, and if it is not too bad, they will continue.
They do actually listen to feedback, though:
* They were going to double the price of Xbox Live gaming subscription
* They were going to require “always on” connection for Xbox One
* They were going to require Windows Store for ARM Applications
(https://www.anandtech.com/show/5527/microsoft-provides-windows-on-arm-details#:~:text=That%20said%2C%20Microsoft%20is%20firm,distributed%20through%20the%20store%20(however%2C)
But they backtracked on all of these and many more.
Problem?
They also find other spaces, like “nudging” Edge where people are not so vocal in their opposition.
How is this a dark pattern? It’s a product survey. The most transparent method of finding out how your customers use your product is to just ask them. Don’t want to tell them? Select Other.
Again – How is this a dark pattern? What info were you tricked into divulging? What money were you tricked to give them?
I wish Gnome would do this. I wish Gnome cared what their customers want.
The dark pattern is that they don’t allow uninstall without replying to the survey.
But adding friction, a small, but non-trivial amount of users will just click “cancel”. The distaste for answering a survey might surpass distaste for keeping OneDrive around.
They do. At least, there is a registry key change that disables OneDrive and then once you uninstall it, it will stay uninstalled!
Yes, of course there is a way.
But how many “regular” users were tricked, or frustrated into clicking to keep it active?
It’s an innocuous drop-down box with only a few options. That’s pretty standard for collecting customer feedback in an inoffensive manner.
If we really have to get upset about something, there’s quite a few nefarious traits listed in the article, too, that actually amount to customer abuse.
It would be innocuous if it was opt-in, but this is forced by not giving the option to close until answered. It might look innocent, but imagine every application doing this. Also whose computer is it? The users or Microsoft’s?
This is the real problem with such “innocuous” annoyances. Sure, it seems no different than Windows Server prompting the admin to explain an unscheduled restart, but in that environment there’s a legitimate case for accountability when you’re in an enterprise environment. For a home user, the computer should serve the user, not the other way around. If I had to explain to my microwave oven why I stopped the cooking session early before it would allow me open the door, I’d promptly throw it in the garbage. Home computers are appliances and should serve the needs of the user, not the needs of their manufacturers (software or hardware).
For sure. As I hinted earlier, this is very, _very_ mild compared to other stuff they subject users to.
People think this is overstepping and hostile towards users. Who cares how it stacks up against something with worse perception? Maybe we should compare it against things that are less invasive to put emphasis on the offensiveness of demanding an explanation.
I’m running a newer version than the listed one affected, and I get the popup without the dropdown for my personal OneDrive (just the enabled Quit and Cancel buttons) and a completely different popup for the Business Onedrive account that runs in parallel (but given this is a different app under the hood that kinda makes sense).
Perhaps it’s Windows 11 only, perhaps it’s A/B testing, or perhaps they gave up on it?
It seems par for the course that Windows users just take this in stride and come up with the umpteenth workaround to (try to) get their OS to do what they want and not what Microsoft forces. It’s clear that MS completely isn’t treating its users as customers anymore. I just wonder at what point the long list of workarounds to mold the Windows OS into something resembling a sane work environment becomes more hassle than it is worth.
Personally I am glad that I went through the learning curve with Linux. That knowledge has served me wonderfully for over 20 years now. Linux isn’t free of the occasional shenanigans, but its userbase doesn’t take crap like this and the backlash to it is severe, so Linux vendors try to avoid it as much as possible.
Not this nonsense again… some Windows users don’t have the option to “not take crap like this” because they need Windows to run win32 programs. Even if 90% of their software is available on Desktop Linux, the other 10% is enough to convince them to stay on Windows.
Users who don’t have entanglements to Windows have already moved to macOS or ChromeOS.
I can use Linux for all but a handful of applications, BUT … I need those applications, so I have no option for moving from Windows.
Microsoft only needs to lose the “people with the brain”. Then they will lose future Windows software developers and system admins, and Windows will slowly become irrelevant, turning into an operating system for dummies.
sj87,
That’s a good point. I was in the windows camp for many years. Using .net to build websites and services, desktop applications, facilities automation, etc. I even started taking an interest in windows kernel development and began working on a new filesystem for windows. Microsoft didn’t know it, but they needed people like us to keep interest in windows fresh with new innovation. I don’t mean to inflate my own importance, but collectively people just like me accounted for tons of windows mindshare. Every time microsoft stacked more obstacles in our way they were pushing indy developers away from windows and towards linux and FOSS. My reason for exploring linux had less to do with the merits of linux (at the time) and more to do with microsoft making windows worse. I lost interest with windows and started developing a linux distro instead and now all my professional work is on linux.
Microsoft had so much mind share at the turn of the century and they largely disregarded our value to them. This cost them internet services/IOT/embedded computing/smart phones/etc, industries that experienced huge growth without microsoft. Once again microsoft are at a pivotal moment: do they want to make windows the most useful platform for users, or do they want to capitalize on spyware/advertising/subscription services that could turn a profit in the short term, but that by and large most people hate.
taskkill
nuff said
Seriously, this is what we’re upset about? A modal popup that doesn’t go away until you answer it? I wish I had a dollar for every one of those I’ve cursed.
I stopped using Microsoft OS years ago, but for technology reasons, and I don’t really see the issue with this. It’s no worse than the telemetry in VSCode that I use daily in Linux.
Microsoft has already pulled the update that enabled this.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/11/microsoft-pulls-onedrive-update-that-would-quiz-you-before-letting-you-quit/