“Back in my university days, when Netscape was the latest web browser on the scene and the Pentium MMX was the power user’s processor of choice, UNIX was part of my everyday life. Since graduating, my chosen desktop operating system has been Windows of some variety. This is partly because it was the most readily available consumer desktop operating system and also because it served me well for the most part.” More here. In other Ubuntu news, Automatix2 for Feisty is released.
Ubuntu: Who Needs Vista?
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
Doesn’t work here.
Or is it just my connection?
Nope, not working here, either.
Not me. Period.
Well, I can’t really answer that one, but to the question of “Who Needs Windows?” I can safely answer, “Gamers.”
On a related note, I revisited poking around my Fiesty x64 installation. Unfortunately, I hit another Linux-only stumbling block…..streaming video. WMVs have a real problem with xine and mplayer on my install. Maybe it’s due to the 64bit nature of things, I really can’t tell. I suppose I can’t really complain as the WMV is proprietary…..but it’s just another example of us living in a Windows world.
Yup. That’s the one thing we still need Windows for on occasion. Games. Counter-Strike and Diablo II
In old days (when I was a teenager) people used DOS for games and Windows for applications in general.
Today we use Windows for games and Linux for applications in general (and games btw. – netpanzer, bzflag and Americas Army). But hardcore gaming is still targetted at Windows. Just like hardcore gaming used to be targetted at DOS. DOS was replaced – and so will Windows be
Yes, and now some of my all time favourite DOS games are available under SCUMMVM under Linux;
Sam & Max hit the road
Day of the tentacle
Monkey Islands
sweeeeet
back when LucasArts could make decent games 😉
++
Fantastic games!
The only one of the group, I’ve heard of, is Monkey Islands.
Here I thought I was into games in the old days….
Thank goodness for Dosbox. Long live Dos games!
Yeah. Agent Sam 006½ and Wolfenstein 3D (though the game-files can be used with WolfGL) – and of course Commander Keen
A little off-topic, but I can’t resist.
My favorites:
Jazz Jackrabbit
Ken’s Labrynth
Descent I
Commander Keen [Except the instant death, no health factor]
Xargon
Xixit [tetris-like]
Lost Vikings [My kids liked this one]
And many more!!
Both Counterstrike and Diablo II work perfectly under Wine – there’s no need to even bother with Cedega. See
http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?iVersionId=315
and
http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?iVersionId=3507
for details.
Diablo 2, huh? I think I may have Diablo 1 floating around.
Wine has promise. I have a funny feeling, though, if and when they achieve 90+% compatibility with Windows apps, you’ll be reading about Microsoft’s legal hordes descending on the project like vultures to a dead cow. Same thing for ReactOS. Ole’ Steve Ball-sack isn’t going to sit by and watch an upstart OS and (whatever Wine is defined as) run his apps without him getting his cut.
In the meantime, it’s kudos to the Wine-O devs from me. Keep it up, peoples.
Heh… Diablo I won’t work for me in XP an Win2K3 – but Wine? Yes. Steam won’t work for me yet – it never gets pass the 27% no matter what I do. But IE6 works though – but only used to find bugs in my CMS’s (if that is the plural of CMS).
I’ve been working with the 32-bit Ubuntu 7.04 for some time now, from Alpha 2 up to this point in time. I’ve had complete WMV support. Here’s a link to my list of experiences with it so far: http://blogbeebe.blogspot.com/search/label/Ubuntu
Then move to a games console – alot cheaper, the life of your two machines will be alot longer as both won’t need to be upgraded at the same rate; games for a games console bought in 2 years will work without any need of an upgrade of your hardware.
Purchase a licence from Fluendo which sells WMV/WMA playback which integrates into gstreamer framework, and soon they’ll be including encoding as well. Solutions are there, they just require that you look for them; they aren’t going to fall out of the sky.
> Then move to a games console – alot cheaper, the life of your two
> machines will be alot longer as both won’t need to be upgraded at the
> same rate; games for a games console bought in 2 years will work
> without any need of an upgrade of your hardware.
Nice argument… except that it’s useless. My brother has just bought a new PC and decided to install Vista on it. The reason was games, windows-only apps, and the fact that XP is going to be deprecated at some time in the future.
Moving to a console would first mean another €x00 for a console. Secondly, which consoles actually run World of Warcraft and CnC Tiberium Wars in the same quality as a good PC, gaming-wise and graphically? Arguments such as “nice graphics don’t make a good game” are disqualified as pure jealousy.
“Arguments such as “nice graphics don’t make a good game” are disqualified as pure jealousy.”
Nice graphics don’t make a good game they only add to it. Look at Nintendo. Most of the games I’ve played on it didn’t have great graphics, but the games were very engaging. If good graphics equaled good game play then doom 3 would have been awesome.
Good graphics do NOT make a good game.
Look at the number of sites catering for emulators for old systems like Spectrum, c64, appleii. The graphics were crap, but the gameplay was simply amazing.
> Good graphics do NOT make a good game.
Of course they don’t, but you didn’t get my point. The graphics in “Tiberian Wars” are a *really* good piece of work (as in many new games). If you want gamers to move to Linux, show them how to get the same there.
Telling them that a good game doesn’t need good graphics is like saying that you don’t want your girlfriend/wife to be cute. It doesn’t convince anyone, but shows a great deal of jealousy. Be sure that you have convinced most gamers to stay with windows by saying that.
Great graphics in an already good game will only serve to make it a better game. I get that point.
Games for Linux will start happening when Linux gets a much larger market share. Of course if people haven’t noticed game makers aren’t particularly targeting the PC anymore. Consoles are now the gaming platform of choice for many people. I know a few gamers who don’t play any PC games anymore.
The nice thing about PC games is that, graphically speaking, better games can be created at a constant rate instead of waiting for the next generation console. Unfortunately people would rather spend six hundred dollars on a console than a graphics card.
Unfortunately people would rather spend six hundred dollars on a console than a graphics card.
Most likely because that $600 won’t be obsolete in 2 years.
Oh, come on now. Who doesn’t like to spend $1200 for an SLI setup only to find out six months later that in order to run all the best stuff in the latest game you have to spend another $1200 for a new card that has hardware support for DirectX v(whatever).
Like I did? heh heh Actually, I’m not running SLi, but have the capability to.
I’m trying to forget that DX10 is on it’s way. I don’t want to think about having to upgrade to Vista just to play anything. Any possibility that DX10 games will be able to run on DX9? Wishful thinking, right?
“Telling them that a good game doesn’t need good graphics is like saying that you don’t want your girlfriend/wife to be cute. It doesn’t convince anyone, but shows a great deal of jealousy. Be sure that you have convinced most gamers to stay with windows by saying that.”
Wow, I’m going to use that. Saying you don’t care about graphics in a game is like saying you don’t care about a girl’s looks: granted, looks won’t really keep you in a relationship, but they can be the limiting factor in extreme cases and great ones will at least make you want to give it a try.
Xbox360 has or will have Tiberian Wars in the upcoming weeks. It is nice looking, it’s the same game, slightly different interface.
I have a love/hate relationship with consoles. But, you’re right…..a console + PC is probably the best bet for the money. At least a game is guaranteed to play on a console. It still works out to be about the same price anyway.
The video thing isn’t a deal breaker. It’s more of a nuisance, really. Like most issues when switching platforms. Shouldn’t web guys be encoding videos in open-standards anyway? Since when did WMV become the be-all/end-all? I thought the multimedia crowd avoided Microsoft’s “solutions” like the plague.
I think you should give Vector Linux 5.8 a try.
I found it better multimedia Linux than some other selfproclaimed MM friendly distributions.
And people who need windows apps like Cubase. Plus people who just can’t get their head around the complexities of Linux.
complexities? i think you need a lesson in whats complex or not..
Ill bet you that i can match any single person in a game of explaining and simplicity in windows vs gnu/linux..
rules: for 1 hour we take shifts in asking what a file/thing does and how it works on windows/linux, when the hour is up, the one that gets most right wins..
up for the challenge? i think i have a pretty decent understanding of how gnu/linux operating systems work, what files does, why they are there, and all that. I however never met someone who has as much knowledge about windows, i doubt even such persons exist, even within microsoft.
“I doubt such persons exist”????
You’re saying there is nobody on the planet who knows more than you do about Windows?
Wow. We are honored to have your presence here.
He did not say that, he said he has not met anytone who knows as much about Windows as he does about Linux.
But I agree, I am also honoured that he graces us with his presence.
We’re not worthy, we’re not worthy.
Edited 2007-04-10 17:51
why do you need to twist what i say? i never said nor implied i knew anything much about windows, and i never said i was superior or anything, or even unique with the knowledge i have about gnu/linux and unix. i simply said that i know a great deal about gnu/linux, and that i know more about it than my windows techie counterparts knows about windows, which i believe is quite true.
I bet that your average, experienced user could complete a task such as “enable DMA on a drive” or “install some fonts” more easily on Windows than on Linux.
I love the way that people like you tell people like me that we have constant headaches with Linux because we are only used to the Windows way of doing things. In my 25 years of computer experience, I have probably spent less time with Windows than I have with Linux, os/2, RISCOS or Amiga. Why is that I didn’t have the same problems with those OSes? Why do I almost never hit a brick wall when trying to install an application on Windows?
Edited 2007-04-10 21:21
Amen. Personally, I’m good with the required Linux-tinkering that comes with every distro till I have to sit in front of a command-line. After that, my patience timer runs out very quickly. If I don’t get it working in one or two attempts, I reboot into XP and avoid Linux completely for about a month or two.
I don’t really consider myself an uneducated person, but after ridding myself of DOS in the mid-90’s I’ll be damned if I have to stare at a blinking white cursor for any length of time again. I really have no intention of trying to remember new obscure commands to replace the old obscure commands I taught myself almost 2 decades ago.
you don’t want vista for games. Here, the sound often just doesn’t work, and Vista reboots at random times. Remembers me of the good old Win ’98 times…
Me and 95% of computer users I know. We need a secure and relativly advnaced version of Windows. We all realiy on specific Windows-only apps that have no equivalent in Linux or are *not* replaceable by their equivalents because they cannot open the Windows apps’ files or lack a 100% compaatible equivalent feature.
Such as:
-Adobe’s suite Dreamweaver, Flash, Fireworks
-Turbotax
-MS Publisher
-Juno
-Visual Studio for Visual Basic and ASP.NET programming in .NET 2.0
-MS SQL Server 2005
-the church management software my church relies on from the only software company in the segment of the industry
-the Age of Empires series from Microsoft
and so on…
Why Vista?
Maybe, due to lockin, you’d eventually need to upgrade.
But isn’t XP good for a while? Better, actually?
Flash isn’t a problem anymore – not even editing them
MS Publisher. That’s a tricky one. You can however export to non-MSPUB format and import into Scribus. Besides that MS Publisher is a lousy DTP-app. Nowhere near Scribus – and Scribus is nowhere near the fullscale professional DTP-apps.
Visual Studio can be replaced with text-editors and monodevelop. ASP.NET programming is definitely possible with mono and apache these days.
MS SQL Server can be replaced with PostgreSQL or MySQL or whatever… MS SQL Server isn’t particularly standard compliant nor professional. PostgreSQL kicks ass in that field.
Keep windows around for the games and apps that won’t run in Wine. But most of what you mentioned can either run in Wine or has superior alternatives (even on Windows).
“Visual Studio can be replaced with text-editors and monodevelop.”
Are you serious? I hope you’re not. I’ve used Visual Studio since 5.0, eclipse since 2.0 and sharpdevelop/monodevelop almost since they began. What IDEs like VS and eclipse provide for professional developers is just incredible. For trivial applications, sharpdevelop/monodevlop will do, but other than that what you said looks like a joke to me. Yes, eventually you can create everything you create in VS in notepad but there’s something called productivity which makes an expensive IDE like VS well worth the price.
You didn’t read what I wrote.
I did not write text-editors or monodevelop. I wrote text-editors and monodevelop.
Besides that for trivial applications Visual Studio 2005 is fine, but for complex applications you don’t use the GUI-builder part of VS. If you do you shouldn’t be allowed to develop applications. Most (sensible) developers do not use anything in VS that isn’t available as standard in monodevelop or eclipse – except for trivial applications.
“You didn’t read what I wrote.
I did not write text-editors or monodevelop. I wrote text-editors and monodevelop. ”
Did I ever say “or”?!!
“but for complex applications you don’t use the GUI-builder part of VS.”
Yes, but an IDE is far more than just a GUI builder. You are confusing these two concepts.
“Most (sensible) developers do not use anything in VS that isn’t available as standard in monodevelop or eclipse – except for trivial applications.”
Where did you get that idea?!!!!!!!!
Sharpdevelop and Monodevelop are trying to provide features that VS provides. They are not the standard in .NET development. VS is.
What does eclipse have to do with VS? eclipse does 10 times more than VS could ever do. The whole community/pluggable framwork. I work on a peice of software which is comprised of 3300 (yes, three thousand and three hundred) plugins on top of eclipse and exactly know what I’m talking about.
Take a look at projects like Jazz (future of eclipse) and VS Team System (it’s main competitor). You WILL see that monodevelop (for professional development) is a just a joke in comparison to these.
And you are bragging about that? O_o
I rest my case.
There’s nothing to brag about.
“I rest my case.”
That is neither an answer to my post nor proof of the points you made. And we’re here to discuss, it’s not a courtroom sir!
Why is it that in your posts instead of answering and providing technical information you pick on my words?
Then stop harassing me and participate in discussion on a sober level instead of your usual behaviour (as interpreted from your other few posts).
Since you need 3300 plug-ins to be productive, would you mind enlighten me about the nature of these plug-ins – or is it a trade secret? (In which case I’ll respect silence.)
And you did brag about using 3300 plug-ins. That’s why I want to know more about them since they are so essential to you. I’m somewhat flabbergasted about the number.
It is the application that has 3300 plug-in, or Eclipse? Because the context is VS vs Eclipse, I interpret as 3300 Eclipse plugins. Now, how much time do you spend to manage, learn and test the plugins, compared to time you spend for coding? Too much plugins will kill you (Queen).
I interprete as eclipse plug-ins as well. Otherwise it doesn’t make sense in this context.
The application has 3300 plugins of it’s own which contribute to eclipse. The reason I mentioned this was not to brag but to mention the power of a pluggable framework in which you can build on top of other products by contributing to a set of extension points. For example Rational Application Developer basically extends eclipse by contributing a dozen hundred plugins to it. And then other prodcuts contribute to that with more plugins and so on.
We all know the strength of a pluggable franework. And it is completely unrelated to VS. vs. eclipse vs. monodevelop.
eclipse is not special in regard to pluggable framework(s).
Forgive me my ignorance, but what about KDevelop, is that something usefull in your opinion?
And doesn’t eclipse work under Linux?
Visual Studio can be replaced with (minus Windows-only IDEs):
http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Devtools/ides.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_integrated_development_environ…
Or you can use Windows IDEs with VMWare, Xen, QEMU, <name here> and that extra CD/DVD of XP or Vista that came with your computer, bought seperately, or pirated.
Hell, Wine or Crossover might be able to support a few.
“Or you can use Windows IDEs with VMWare, Xen, QEMU, <name here> and that extra CD/DVD of XP or Vista that came with your computer, bought seperately, or pirated. ”
Uh, seeing as the topic is “who needs Vista” I think the people taking this advice from you might.
Only if they refuse to try one of the dozens of cross-platform or Linux-specific IDEs.
While I’m not a programmer outside a simple hobbiest toolset, bash scripting and HTML/XHTML, I do know that Eclipse works on Linux and supports .NET languages.
I also know Dreamweaver 8 works fine on Linux because I’m using it right now to do my homework.
I also know Dreamweaver 8 works fine on Linux because I’m using it right now to do my homework.
No windows app running under wine in Linux works fine, not even if every single thing in it works just like it should. They will stand out like sore thumbs in the GUI. E.g. it will think that there is a C:. They will not recognize things like PAM (if needed), or be able to make use o f DBUS. Not to mention that running wine will open up for a lot of security problems normally associated with windows.
Just like MacOS-X users really dislike using X11 applications due to a less than perfect user experience, Linux users will not get the best user experience from their windows apps if they run them in wine. If you need windows only apps you will be much better off using windows. I suppose you could user VMware, Xen or some other virtualization solution, but technically that would still mean that you are running windows.
Another thing, if Linux users starts to accept using windows apps in wine, there will be no incentive for software vendors to develop native Linux apps just like there was no incentive to develop OS/2 applications as windows apps could be run in OS/2. And look what happened to OS/2.
Another thing, if Linux users starts to accept using windows apps in wine, there will be no incentive for software vendors to develop native Linux apps just like there was no incentive to develop OS/2 applications as windows apps could be run in OS/2. And look what happened to OS/2.
But wine’s winelib can be used to generate native Linux ports of Windows apps by little more than recompiling.
wine is useful in the transitional period during which Linux needs to become popular enough for native apps to get written, but it won’t become popular unless Windows apps can run on it.
Besides, unsupported apps, like old games, will never be ported anywhere (even to newer versions of Windows), there’s no choice except using wine :-).
I responded to your statement about using a VM and a “spare” XP or Vista CD. IF they did that, they would need Windows. Not sure why I was modded down for pointing out something so simple
The people who say that Visual Studio can be replaced by those free IDEs are similar to the people who say Matlab can be replaced by Octave (lol).
Suffice to say, those people have never actually used Visual Studio for any extended length of time. Open Source is all well and good, but you must be realistic about how the OSS projects compare with the proprietary counterparts.
“Keep windows around for the games and apps that won’t run in Wine. But most of what you mentioned can either run in Wine or has superior alternatives (even on Windows).”
——————
This course of action really doesn’t make sense for many people -if you have already paid for Windows (& almost everyone who buys a PC does, since it is very rare to buy a computer without Windows), and there are a vast number of applications available for Windows which will do the job adequately enough, then there is little reason to go to the trouble of dual-booting Windows and Linux and the hassle of setting up two Operating Systems to suit your individual needs. And using Wine is a bit of a hit-or-miss affair – it can be a pain to set up and configure, and some windows programs run very well under Wine (I’ve had a couple perform better under Wine than native Windows), but many do not run very stably if at all, so it is not a very desirable solution for most people.
Sure, if there is an app that runs in Linux but not Windows that you just can’t function without, then maybe running both OSes makes sense, and if there is nothing you need that is tied specifically to Windows, then you can probably run Windows exclusively.
But for Linux to get to the point where large numbers of people want Linux instead of Windows, Linux has to offer a killer app or feature that is not available on any other platform, that is so desirable and useful that people can overcome the inertia that prevents change. It is not enough to be technically superior or a very low price tag – it has to be stunningly, obviously and overwhelmingly better, with better (not more) software.
Many Linux advocates tout the large number of applications available in the average distro’s repositories as a desirable feature, when in fact it is not what most computer users want at all – they want fewer but more high quality apps.
Linux is all about freedom and choice, which is all good and well, but people need quality choices, they don’t want to be overwhelmed with such a sheer quantity of choices that they can’t work out which ones are of quality.
So, to summarise my long-winded post:
Linux needs to get the balance between quantity and quality of choices right (currently there are too many choices, not enough quality choices), and linux needs killer apps exclusive to linux to draw people in (this last one might be a problem, as the ideals that underpin Linux seem to go against exclusivity). Currently there are very few apps or features available to Linux that you can’t get from Windows or OSX.
Linux is all about freedom and choice, which is all good and well, but people need quality choices, they don’t want to be overwhelmed with such a sheer quantity of choices that they can’t work out which ones are of quality.
All packages of ubuntu for example are digitally signed (gpg key).I would say that garantees if it’s genuine or not.Where is the windows equivalent?
{ Linux is all about freedom and choice, which is all good and well, but people need quality choices, they don’t want to be overwhelmed with such a sheer quantity of choices that they can’t work out which ones are of quality. }
Linux code only gets into repositories and released to the public once it passes the “meritocracy” selection process. It has already been vetted, and guaranteed to be the best code available for that function which operates strictly in the users best interest.
Linux code is already quality … from an end-user perspective. No malware, and no spyware either, guaranteed. Nothing written in the interests of the vendor. Open standards wherever possible, so your data is not locked away in some proprietary format that leaves you beholden to some vendor just to read and use your own files. No need to update or upgrade on a vendor’s whim.
No closed-source applications or operating systems have these guarantees.
I think his concerns are not with quality of code, but quality of functionality, compatibility and features of applications containing the code. Those running Linux may be able to forgo some functionality of applications to remain ‘free’. But others may not as easily be able to do that. So the conversation about who needs windows, vista or xp is pointless.
Those who need Visual Studio, those who need Foxpro, delphi, ActiveX applications, IE specific websites, quicken 2007 (yes there is a mac version), anyone who’s internal IT support will not support anything on linux due to internal politics.
And then there are those who just prefer Windows to linux on the desktop…
Me and 95% of computer users I know. We need a secure and relativly advnaced version of Windows. We all realiy on specific Windows-only apps that have no equivalent in Linux or are *not* replaceable by their equivalents because they cannot open the Windows apps’ files or lack a 100% compaatible equivalent feature.
Umm, maybe “95%” of developers. Mom and pop checking their email make up a big chunk of the userbase and they do NOT need Windows. They’re just used to it and don’t know any better.
OUtside of your MS examples, it’s just a chicken an egg problem. If Adobe did a market study that showed 30%+ of developers were using Linux / Solaris / BSD as a desktop development platform you would find that very quickly binaries would be released. I’ve done some work with churches and yes, the software they use is Windows based. However, it’s not really a complicated app and you could “easily” write something more stable and cross-platform.
Devs don’t build for it becasue users aren’t running it and users don’t run it because they don’t know better, are scared or just have that ONE app they need without evening trying to look for alternatives.
‘Mom and pop checking their email make up a big chunk of the userbase and they do NOT need Windows. They’re just used to it and don’t know any better.
‘
— actually, I think they just use it because they couldn’t give a sh!t
I am finding it rather hard to accept the concept of an individual whose life actually _requires_ the use of Age of Empires.
(Or, for that matter, half the other apps in that list. A matter of convenience is not the same as a matter of necessity.)
How is that significant? The exact same point could be made about computers, or cars, or calculators, or clothes – and that’s not even leaving the “C” portion of the dictionary
“””
We all realiy on specific Windows-only apps that have no equivalent in Linux or are *not* replaceable by their equivalents because they cannot open the Windows apps’ files or lack a 100% compaatible equivalent feature.
“””
Wow. It must really suck to be in that position.
I have absolutely nothing that I need Windows for. There is the occasional inconvenience, sure. But nothing of any real importance.
Sometimes we get so used to our own situations that we take our blessings for granted.
But then, of course, a certain amount of effort went into getting myself into this position of independence; I used to “need” Windows 95.
I don’t understand this. You don’t need to use windows, but others do. Some actually ENJOY it. Linux on the desktop isn’t convenient for them, windows might be. For some convenience comes with OSX. Stop trying to convince people your platform is better and telling them how to use THEIR computers. Give them the CHOICE to make their own decisions and back off.
“””
I don’t understand this. You don’t need to use windows, but others do.
“””
Certainly. Some people have to use Windows. Or they’d lose their jobs or whatever.
After looking at this section from the post I was responding to:
“””
We all realiy on specific Windows-only apps that have no equivalent in Linux or are *not* replaceable by their equivalents because they cannot open the Windows apps’ files or lack a 100% compaatible equivalent feature.
“””
I sent my heartfelt sympathies. I didn’t see a lot of enjoyment in being in that position.
My platform is better for me.
And perhaps I overgeneralized in thinking that others don’t like to be held over the barrel by someone with many more bargaining chips than they have.
Perhaps some do enjoy it. Or, more likely, just don’t mind it.
By all means, people should use what really works for them.
To thine own self be true.
If you’re dependent on Windows because you need Visual Studio I don’t feel sorry for you… Software developers, of all computer users, should know better than to be totally dependent on an IDE…
It seems much more plausible to require Windows because your target platform is Windows.
What’s Juno?
“Me and 95% of computer users I know.”
Well if that’s true, that’s an issue of perceived need vs. ‘real need’ methinks.
For a big part, it’s just marketing. Most people don’t *need* Vista or its features and as some already have said, would be better off using XP SP2, that is, if Windows is all they know/want.
The need is a perceived need, instead of a ‘real’ need. Only a tiny percentage of people will have a ‘real’ need to switch to Vista immediately.
Does one really need Aero to get one’s work done? Don’t think so. Flip3D? Not really, it’s not as useful as it could be anyway thanks to the windows in front obscuring what is behind.
Improved security? Maybe, has yet to be proven. Also, a lot of Windows users always claim(ed) that XP can be just as secure as any OS and that they “have no problem with viruses or malware”.
One thing I can see being useful, maybe worth switching for, is the search facility. But then again you could install Google Desktop Search or something similar on XP too. Plus there are some complaints about the confusing way the search includes/excludes certain folders. I dare say that Beagle or Spotlight still do a better job. But again, if Windows is what you want, then the search is certainly a plus.
And a couple of programs have gotten an “upgrade” also, but Vista Photo Gallery still isn’t as good as Picasa or Adobe’s software (forgot the name).
And then there are some bugs, and half-decent drivers, etc. (but well, every OS has its share of bugs when it comes out really) which make even some of the most pro-Windows people recommend waiting until SP1.
Even for the gamers Vista’s not the promised paradise (yet?) because of a couple of high-profile games not running ok (I think Quake4 among others?) and as I already said, some problematic drivers (for example creative, nvidia).
So I would guess that a small percentage of people really *need* to switch to Vista, right here right now.
<< MS SQL Server 2005 >>
Use sybase ASE or sybase IQ…
It’s 5%, not 95%, of the computer users. For most of the applications there are alternatives for Linux. Your list is a bit odd. Of course you “need” Windows if you want to use Microsoft-applications and even develop applications for Windows.
Me and 95% of computer users I know. We need a secure and relativly advnaced version of Windows.
Like XP SP2?
Seriously, you don’t need *Vista* to run any of the programs in your list. XP probably even runs them better than Vista, as that is the platform these were really developed for.
-Adobe’s suite Dreamweaver, Flash, Fireworks
-Turbotax
-MS Publisher
-Juno
-Visual Studio for Visual Basic and ASP.NET programming in .NET 2.0
-MS SQL Server 2005
-the church management software my church relies on from the only software company in the segment of the industry
-the Age of Empires series from Microsoft
99.9% of users I know *don’t need* any of these applications. I would also dare to say that this true for 95% of *all* computer users.
Edited 2007-04-10 10:57
> 99.9% of users I know *don’t need* any of these applications. I would
> also dare to say that this true for 95% of *all* computer users.
True, but a useless argument as well. You don’t *need* a computer at all, therefore, of course, you don’t need any specific applications either. This doesn’t help a bit in evaluating whether Windows or Linux (or whatever), and with what applications, works better for you.
Edited 2007-04-10 11:34
True, but a useless argument as well.This doesn’t help a bit in evaluating whether Windows or Linux (or whatever), and with what applications, works better for you.
Well, the Original Poster made an argument from a very narrow perspective (people *he* knows). I made the *same* from my perspective and *also* from a wider perspective.
Therefore, my argument is just as valid as OP’s, if not more.
You don’t *need* a computer at all, therefore, of course, you don’t need any specific applications either.
Now that is a truly useless argument (at least in *this* discussion). It’s also quite untrue. Many people *do need* computers if they are going to be part of a modern society.
This doesn’t help a bit in evaluating whether Windows or Linux (or whatever), and with what applications, works better for you.
Like I already said, I feel that my argument is at least just as valid as OP’s.
The problem is the list is one of the worst I have ever seen for arguing that for general use Linux is not viable. 95% of the people the original poster knows would have to be windows developers.
-Adobe’s suite Dreamweaver, Flash, Fireworks
— Linux has Flash. Very few people have to design it.
-Turbotax
— Ok. Not for me (I have an accountant) but I can see the need for many. I would not classify it as a “must have” though.
-MS Publisher
— 95% of the people the OP knows needs Publisher? (Scribus is better in my opinion but I know many would disagree.)
-Juno
— As in Juno Internet Service? Any internet provider who is Windows only does not deserve to be in business. Sure they ay not support alt OSes, but require it?
-Visual Studio for Visual Basic and ASP.NET programming in .NET 2.0
— Congratulations, if you work in a MS shop for web/app development you need Windows. The vast majority of the world do not work as programmers in a MS shop.
-MS SQL Server 2005
— I will spare the debate on MS SQL Server, but I would not use it even on Windows. Opinion varies though.
-the church management software my church relies on from the only software company in the segment of the industry
— oh yeah, almost everyone I know needs this. Sub in Photoshop next time, at least it has some validity. A specialist market says little about general desktop use. What is the software by the way?
-the Age of Empires series from Microsoft
— If you are a serious gamer you need Windows. I do not dispute this, but many do not game. You can game on linux but it is more challenging to get things working. From an end user prospective the steps needed to get Windows games working on Linux puts it out of the realm of reasonable.
Re:-Adobe’s suite Dreamweaver, Flash, Fireworks
On Linux I use: Nvu,?,Gimpshop
Re: Turbotax
Turbotax now has an online version that works just as well.
This got me to thinking though about money management software. I guess it would be something more along the lines of MS Money, but I use a program called moneydance – http://www.moneydance.com
It runs on Linux, OS X & Windows. I love this program.
I have no affiliation with the company other than I have been a VERY happy user of their software for a couple of years now. If you are looking for that type of software I highly recommend it!
Please, NVU?
Maybe if you wanted a replacement for MS Frontpage, sure. It’s just a WYSIWYG editor. Dreamweaver is a development application that happens to do WYSIWIG.
He said 95% of the users he knows everyone should read he is entitled to his opinion and also 95% of the people he knows could be .net developers! And in all honesty Mono ois not a replacement or alternative for that matter. It will always be 1 or two revisions behing .net itself. There will always be missing features and porting problems with Mono.
I know that he meant he needs Windows he just placed his comment in a Vista post but I understand. I personally use OSX so I have the benefit of a majority of those APPS and I use Ruby on Rails instead of .net.
However I was once there and I once used only VS2003 so I know your world.
“-Adobe’s suite Dreamweaver, Flash, Fireworks”
Linux has Flash. Most users arent professional web developers. Wonder how any users of Dreamweaver actually PAID for it?
“-Turbotax”
Ehh, I guess? If you’re american.
“-MS Publisher”
Most people dont use this.
“-Juno”
As in? Juno Internet Services? I’m pretty sure most users on a global scale don’t use them.
“-Visual Studio for Visual Basic and ASP.NET programming in .NET 2.0”
Most people arent software developers.
“-MS SQL Server 2005”
Most people dont run a RDBMs on their spare time.
“-the church management software my church relies on from the only software company in the segment of the industry”
Yes, that’s a truly large population. You do have a point though, there are quite a few of those custom made apps in use by businesses. On the other hand a lot of them are DOS apps and probably run on dosbox.
“-the Age of Empires series from Microsoft”
On that we can agree. Gaming is not Linux’ forte.
On the other hand, if you want to play games you might a well just buy a console.
I always wonder why everybody complains about Tax software. I have been doing my taxes online under Linux for about 5 years now. I use TaxAct.com. I’m sure TurboTax.com has something similar. It’s nice to come back every year and have most everything already filled out. It only takes about 30 minutes to do my taxes. I keep PDF copies of everything. I really don’t understand this gripe.
Me and 95% of computer users I know.
Your wrong.
Can’t argue with that “logic”.
You’re misspelling is wrong.
***Intentionally using the wrong word to get point across***
Edited 2007-04-10 17:19 UTC
Linux doesn’t support the DirectX, and so you can’t play videogames, and also you can’t use the full power of your graphics card (all graphics card on sale are DirectX9/10 capable and so on linux they’re unused!!!).
Linux hasn’t a good development tool such as Microsoft Visual Studio 2005
On Linux I can’t use my favorite eMule application (emule clones are not good as the original)
On linux a lot of motherboards and sata/pata hard drives don’t work, for example my mobo based on nvidia nforce4 sli doesn’t work on linux Ubuntu!
On Linux my USB ADSL Modem doesn’t work
On Linux professional applications are not present
All linux distributions such as Ubuntu are still compiled for i386, and so they’re not optimized for Pentium4 or Dual Core. Windows XP is optmized for Pentium4 and Windows Vista is fully optmized for Pentium4 and Dual Core CPUs SS2/SS3/SS4 instructions set
Edited 2007-04-11 09:59
Jesus… this post displays only your more than lacking knowledge beyond anything that is Windows. *sigh*
CRAP! will someone EXPLAIN to me HOW I am even remotely LOCKED IN to anything with Microsoft? Jeez!
FORCED to upgrade? I swear. You zealots won’t quit.
No one has ever once mentioned anything that windows is preventing me from doing, and doing well.
CRAP! will someone EXPLAIN to me HOW I am even remotely LOCKED IN to anything with Microsoft? Jeez!
FORCED to upgrade? I swear. You zealots won’t quit.
No one has ever once mentioned anything that windows is preventing me from doing, and doing well.
I’ll bite.
You might not remember, but Microsoft Windows operating systems of the past have all been abandoned and, within 5 – 7 years, become obselete or unusable due to a lack of support (usually hardware support, but sometimes software).
Sure, you aren’t locked in, install Windows 3.1 today; but it didn’t ship with a TCP/IP stack (or web browser). Install Windows 95, but it didn’t ship with USB pnp support. Install Windows 98, except that the sata support isn’t there. Grassroots community support is available for this in extremely limited quantity, but information (and downloads, patches, etc) gets more scarce as time goes on while the unpatched vulnerabilities mount.
It’s you that just don’t get it, or “won’t quit”. It isn’t up to you whether or not you can keep using Windows XP, or even Windows Vista 3-5 years from now when the next iteraion is released. Someday, you simply won’t be able to, or at least, not to do anything seriously. Applications will disappear or migrate to the next version of Windows, hardware will evolve and you’ll be left with software (in the form of an OS) that is obselete and almost useless, or in the best case not interoperable with the standards used by the rest of the world.
This is the upgrade cycle that drives Microsoft’s profit. If you think that your OS choice should be left to the discretion of Microsoft, that’s your decision to make. Nobody’s stopping you from that. You might even agree with Microsoft that each iteration of their product is an improvement, but that doesn’t change the fact that on a timeline that really isn’t that long, your choice has already been made for you.
You can happily and volluntarily walk the plank, but don’t deny the sword that’s at your back.
You can make that same argument about virtually any OS.
But heres the thing.. if your still running win3.1 on a 486 and it does everything you need it to do how are you forced into upgrading? Sure you may want to upgrade, but wanting and needing isn’t the same thing. Win3.1 doesn’t have a timebomb that holds your data for ransom unless you buy the next version of windows. They don’t make drivers for it because its not cost effective to spend the manpower to do it.
Case in point. Most hardware and software can run fine under windows 2000, and even a lot of things can run under win98 still. People upgraded to WinXP because they wanted to.
If your trying to say by not selling win3.1/98 anymore is the same as forcing new versions of windows is just a silly argument. OMG ford doesn’t sell the 1996 escort anymore, damn them forcing me to upgrade to the 2007 model!
Actually, you are going to be forced to upgrade.
An example.
You have win3.1 on your 486, running Word6. It does everything you need of it.
However, you advertise a job for hire and give your email address for people to send their CVs, (resumes), and get hundreds of emails, they are all in .DOC, (office XP,2003 and 2000). You cannot open any of them.
Do you….
Reply to them all asking them to change the format of the attachment.
Only give the job to someone who sends in .TXT format.
See, it is not just how YOU use your computer, it is how well you can interoperate with others, and being locked into a propriatary only solution, will limit your timescale for doing so.
Some people use Windows because that is all they know, fair enough, use Windows, but DO NOT USE formats that lock you in to specific applications.
Use a solution that has open formats. Try OpenOffice.org, it will allow you to read propriatary formats, but allow you to save in an open format that will never be locked or owned by one company.
The danger is simple…. what is to stop Microsoft putting a lock on the format and charging you for access to your own documents ?
> Actually, you are going to be forced to upgrade.
So you are with any version of any Linux distro, simply because at one point in the future, it will be outdated. “being forced to upgrade” is a constant for computers these days and has nothing to do with Windows.
> However, you advertise a job for hire and give your email address for
> people to send their CVs, (resumes), and get hundreds of emails, they
> are all in .DOC, (office XP,2003 and 2000). You cannot open any of them.
[…]
> Use a solution that has open formats. Try OpenOffice.org, it will allow
> you to read propriatary formats, but allow you to save in an open
> format that will never be locked or owned by one company.
First you say that an old Windows won’t help you because you need DOC, and then you advertise open formats? If DOC is a requirement stated by your future employer, using open formats won’t help (those employers that would regard you higher for using open formats wouldn’t try to force you into DOC from the beginning).
> The danger is simple…. what is to stop Microsoft putting a lock on
> the format and charging you for access to your own documents ?
First, there would be a massive uproar from customers and ODF would be the #1 format immediately. Secondly, any old document can still be accessed with old Office versions, as well as OO.org, so no important data is lost (and even formatting would survive for the most part). This would be the perfect suicide for MS.
May I also say that mentioning all the things that *could* happen, but are very unlikely to *actually* happen, with the intention to draw customers off a competitor (in this case, MS) is exactly the classical F.U.D. game that MS is infamous for.
Re-read my post please. I was saying that YOU are advertising a job, and OTHER people are sending you .DOC files, across many of the office formats.
So YOU need to keep upgrading to be able to read them all.
It is not the same using Linux, as there is not a single vendor trying to get everyone to use its formats.
So, for example, you are running Ubuntu and using Openoffice. You vreate a load of files in .ODF, the Ubuntu goes bust, and Openoffice developers give up and start making games, no more Openoffice. What do you do ?
You simply choose another Linux, like Mepis, and another application like Koffice and you are back to editing your .ODFs again.
With Linux, you are free to type “apt-get dist-upgrade” and move from one older version to a newer one, or you can stick with back-ports.
This is what Windows users needs, the freedom to stay with something like Windows 2000, and get all the goodies like DX10 from the future versions. Although there is no “could” or “would” here, we all know that will never happen.
> Re-read my post please. I was saying that YOU are advertising a job,
> and OTHER people are sending you .DOC files, across many of the
> office formats.
Okay, I misunderstood this then. Sorry.
> This is what Windows users needs, the freedom to stay with something
> like Windows 2000
You aren’t protected from upgrading, no matter which OS you use. You still have to do a “apt-get dist-upgrade” or whatever, to keep your OS up to date. What you are advertising here is actually that most Linux distros are (and especially, upgrading your distro is) free as in beer, which is an obvious advantage. But using Ubuntu Warty in ten years will be similar to running Windows 95 now.
You aren’t protected from upgrading, no matter which OS you use. You still have to do a “apt-get dist-upgrade” or whatever, to keep your OS up to date
I was not talking about a user wanting to upgrade the OS, I was talking about the user being forced to upgrade.
If you use Linux you actually are never made to run apt-get, it is up to you to choose to do that.
In 15 years time, if I was to leave this Ubuntu machine the way it is now, and never upgrade, I could still open .ODF files that people would be sending me from OpenOffice 2022 or whatever, but there will be no way my Vista machine will be able to open .DOC from Office 2022. I will need to get the latest version of Office for that, and they are not going to make that compatible with a 15 year old Windows, so I need to upgrade my Windows to run the Office.
Redhat still support 7,8,9? What about those that purchased distributions from, oh i don’t know…Corel? Face it, you’re forced to upgrade linux as well if you buy a commercial distribution.
“No one has ever once mentioned anything that windows is preventing me from doing, and doing well.”
Here’s one. Managing and troubleshooting networks.
Windows plain simply suck ass for this task. The tools (ping, tracert etc) that comes with it are pretty much a joke and you’d have install a load of 3rd party software to get something that is even remotely usable and even then *nix usually has the better tools.
“Flash isn’t a problem anymore – not even editing them
”
So Adobe released Flash for linux? The editing software I mean. Or do you mean that there is a legitimate open source flash editor comparable to Adobe’s flash editor? I think not.
“MS SQL Server can be replaced with PostgreSQL or MySQL”
UHHHH. no. Postgres, maybe. MySQL, hell no. Not even close. I *love* postgres, but there are times I wish for SQL Server. As for mysql, I shudder every time I Have to work with it.
“Visual Studio can be replaced with text-editors and monodevelop.”
MonoDevelop is nice and Mono itself has come a LONG way, but it’s still not anywhere near visual studio.
Linux is my platform of choice for many things, but those three points are simply not true in my experience.
I’m curious — what is it you like about SQL Server? Is it the server itself, or simply the admin tool?
Also, as to the development environment, if you are doing .Net, then yeah, VS.Net is the way to go. Microsoft’s language on Microsoft’s tools on Microsoft’s platform is the intended design. But, there are a number of excellent IDEs for other languages, such as NetBeans, KDevelop, Anjuta, Eclipse (although, I personally don’t care for Eclipse), etc.
“I’m curious — what is it you like about SQL Server?”
The most recent thing I can think of that I’ve run into is lack of linked servers in postgres. I worked on a fairly complex sql server/oracle site a few years back, and setting up/using a linked server was very nice. It would be great if postgres could do this natively. I understand that one can sort of hack this together using an odbc datasource, but that’s not quite the same.
And yes, the admin utility is a big plus. That being said, I do think pgadmin3 is fabulous. There are a few areas where I still prefer sql server’s admin tools (restoring from backups, scheduling, etc), but there’s no question that it’s a fantastic tool. MySQL Administrator is not remotely comparable.
SQL Server’s admin tool is really nice and the integration with Visual Studio is top notch.
I wish Postrgres had something similiar as an add-in as well.
1) Regarding Flash, he is probably referring to running Flash under wine; I am unsure as to the status of the latest and greatest release from Adobe, but I do understand that CS2 and lower versions work for some people.
2) If you’re a Visual Studio developer, the obvious conclusion is that you’re a Windows developer, so moving to Linux, or in fact, any other operating system outside the Microsoft sphere makes little or no sense. Give how cheap Microsoft make software to their developer community, its hardly a big cost factor to upgrade.
3) Why do people keep forgetting this; Sybase is pretty compatible with MS SQL, why not purchase Sybase and run it on Linux, or infact, Solaris x64 for that matter? from what I understand from those who have migrated, the change isn’t all that challenging either.
4) TurboTax is an issue, but IIRC you can run it under wine without too many problems, but seeing you’re a developer, I’m surprised you haven’t seen this as an opportunity write your own piece of software for Linux which addresses that issue.
“2) If you’re a Visual Studio developer, the obvious conclusion is that you’re a Windows developer, so moving to Linux, or in fact, any other operating system outside the Microsoft sphere makes little or no sense. Give how cheap Microsoft make software to their developer community, its hardly a big cost factor to upgrade. ”
most things written in VB.NET or C# can run on Mono now, so your assumptions may be a bit old….
If you are writing in those languages, by enlarge your main target audience is going to be Windows users.
The fact is, mono was *only* developed as a knee jerk reaction to Java’s restrictive licence; here we are with Java 1/2 opensoruced, with the rest opensourced in around 6months time. I don’t know about you, but the legitimacy for Mono has now gone up in a puff of smoke.
“””
… by enlarge your main target audience is going to be Windows users…
“””
Holy Freudian slip, Batman!
Have you been actually *reading* your spam? 😉
I agree that the reason for Mono’s existence is deteriorating. Then again, that happened to Miguel’s last big project and it didn’t seem to hurt Gnome any.
Time will tell, I suppose.
Edited 2007-04-10 06:13
The problem as far as I see, if hey just stuck to the ‘core’, that is, the stuff released under the ECMA specification, and basically invent a whole new layer ontop, there wouldn’t be any issue’s – it would be a uniquely GNOME framework that shares only a very small amount of ‘specifications’ with Microsofts – and sticking to the specification as set out by the ECMA would guard against any possible legal trouble in the future.
GNOME was more than just a licence; if it were just a licence, then it would have been simply a matter of Trolltechn and the associated communities comeing to some some of arrangement.
GNOME was created as also a technical answer to a question still left unresolved; the issue of a stable C++ ABI. Add to the fact that most UNIX programmers are old C battle axes, it makes very little sense have a desktop based on a language which restricts those who can participate in the development.
Also, GNOME re-invented itself, its not just a ‘solution’ to a technical or licence issue, but addresses the perceived deficiencies in KDE; such as the overly complex nature of the GUI for instance, the lack of a HIG standard, the constantly cycle of ‘compatibility breakage’ with almost every major Qt release.
GNOME can justify its existance because it has re-invented itself and its purpose multiple numbers of time, the problem with Mono is that its stuck in a trap where it either tries to be 100% compatible with Microsoft or simply it gets relegated to being yet another pretty but not exactly useful language out there for people to fiddle with.
Only in relations to trivial applications are VS better than monodevelop. For complex applications nobody with a sane mind (perhaps it rules out developers?
uses the GUI-oriented editors in either VS or monodevelop. What is used from VS is available in monodevelop and eclipse.
I don’t know what you mean with legimate? Are you hinting at software patents pretty much invalid outside USA? Fcuk software patents. They don’t matter. And they aren’t even legal. I’m sick and tired of morons that believe USA is the axis the whole world spins around (though it does gives a different meaning to the axis of evil
.
MySQL isn’t worse than MS SQL. Definitely not. But PostgreSQL is definitely better than both. No doubt about that.
As for MS SQL I shudder every time I have to work with it (happens every week, unfortunately).
Who needs Linux, who needs Windows, who needs BSD, who needs Solaris … yada yada yada … people do need an OS. If you don’t know why, that’s maybe a lack of fantasy.
Way to read the article.
Runs Windows XP, TheaterTek, SageTV, PowerDVD, Zoom Player, Foobar2000, bunch’o codecs, MyHD card, AnyDVD, DVD Rebuilder, Daemon Tools, etc. Display through a NVidia 7950GT with VMR9 Renderless output via DVI.
Sorry, but no flavor of Linux has anything remotely good. And no, MythTV is not.
Until Linux catches up in this little world we call multimedia, it’s just a Server OS that some people like to run as their desktop.
Robert
(Yes, I’m a Linux user too, but I know it’s place)
Edited 2007-04-10 00:49
You must be smoking some heavy stuff.. Linux is far far ahead in terms of multimedia support…
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4422887272477313460&q=linu…
Linux has far better multimedia hardware support even.. And if you disagree, i set you up for this challenge:
i own an amd64 box, socket 754, standard asus mobo, 1.5gb ram, nvidia geforce 6600gt..
First off, ill give you $1000 if you can make windows install(in less than 5 hours, cause if you perhaps research ALOT you may find workarounds..)
Now to get my tv tuner card working.. its an elcheapo Medion MD5044 bought in aldi, it says windows on the box, and i got cd and all.. i can even tell you that it has the Phillips SAA7134 chipset.. Fix this on winblows and you will have another $1000.
I will even pay for transporation to me in Denmark, provided you can fix this..
Winblows seriously is a piece of unmitigated useless crap, in any environment, and its beyond comprehension its being accepted so widely, this had NEVER been allowed to occur in the car industry, or any other industry, hell, if you had to find something even remotely similar in the restaurant industry, it would be a them pouring you drinking water directly from the toilet(just after usage, no flushing), and the Days special from the Toilet after another kind of usage(no flushing)..
Consider my offer..
btw, how it works on linux: computer 100% compatible and works 100% stable, plug in the tv tuner, install tvtime, search channels, watch video…
This is the first time I’ve heard about Linux MCE – watched the vid.
It seems. Well. Freakin’ Amazing.
I thought I drooled over a Mythbox…(Which I never got around to building).
Well…Now…Yeah…
And by what method(s) does Linux display video on the screen? Overlay? OpenGL? If you knew a thing about Windows and VMR9, you’d know your statements are ill informed. Nothing in Linux comes close to displaying true HD quality. SD/DVD quality, yes.
Robert
pure lies.. GNU/Linux decodes HD stuff atleast as well as winblows does, whether it paints those pixels into opengl textures or bitmaps to save on the disk.. we also have topnotch postprocessing… in fact out of the box GNU/Linux does CONSIDERABLY better at most stuff than winblows.. for example 720p stuff, winblows scaling that to fullscreen on laptops is simply horrific, where my free box does it WAY better..
“And by what method(s) does Linux display video on the screen? Overlay? OpenGL?”
Xv/XVideo, usually. This uses overlays, 2d/3d hardware scaling and YUV acceleration.
you supply the gear, I’ll do the install, and you can pay me the 2000 bucks in Canadian Dollars please.
I have to agree with the original poster, Myth TV and multimedia apps in general on Linux work well, but are no match for Mediacenter, it’s got all those nice little touches. I think it maybe one of the best, well thought apps MS ever produced
if you are referring to me(cant be arsed looking), i will not ship my equipment, i am however willing to ship you. Trust me, it does not work.
Did you watch the linux mce video? perhaps you should try that, and see what a piece of lowly garbage microosfts media center really is.
I don’t use Microsoft MCE. I use Sage, which is much better and allows for a variety of remote clients (including a Linux one) away from the tuners, if needed.
Have you made all the LinuxMCE claims work? Sounds pretty lofty.
Robert
i havent tested it, but i dont see why i couldnt do it, the software seems to be there, and i trust i have the skills required
Linux MCE is pretty unique but Windows users complain that the text is too small to read from a comfterable distance from the TV and a list of menus is less than elegent.
I kind of agree but maybe the next version will improve and increase font size and rely less on menus.
The commercial Linux media centers are every bit as competitive as Windows Media Center.
I said supply the gear, and the money in Canadian dollars. I certainly wouldn’t expect you to come to Canada, a plane ticket and 2000 bucks? that’s just too much to expect. 🙂
I think having a my media center update all the bluetooth phones in the room without asking is A) horribly rude, and B) a useless feature. My phone is a phone, not a remote, and other peoples phones are theirs to install shit, not Linux MCE’s
I also don’t want it scanning all the devices in the house for media, when it starts up, I will tell it where to look, which is what you do with MCE, it just doesn’t look in your my videos folder, it looks where you want it to. Last thing I want is for the kiddies to find Dad’s porn selection in amongst the Barney movies. Sane defaults are always good.
also, it seems that LInux MCE can dim the lights for me….hmmmm, seems like they really bloated it up.
I would think to turn on the TV and Sound system, you would need the same hardware needed to control the lights. I would assume that if you didn’t have the hardware and it’s software installed in your system, Linux MCE couldn’t do that either. Most users wouldn’t have that, so while I think it is cool, most people wouldn’t miss this, or the lights.
I thought the interface was great, well done. Nice, unobtrusive, I’ll certainly give that one to you.
You can configure Windows MCE to autoplay DVD’s also, actually, I think that is the default, perhaps they “tweaked” it?
While it does seem like a very good Media center, I would have to try it myself to see if it actually lives up to that video. I tend to think that it probably isn’t that easy, but I will certainly try it out. If it does do all that the video says, I will certainly change my tune.
Perhaps I’ll even buy a new PC to run it on after I get that 2000 bucks from you….
Edited 2007-04-10 02:58
No dice.. I will pay for your plane ticket back/forth, plus 2000 canadian dollars, and then i get to watch the miracle taking place…
And now before you begin getting cocky and stuff, i have already had one person home(allthough he was from denmark too) because he just KNEW he could make windows and my tv tuner work, but you know what? he went home without money, and my computer survived the day without winblows.
Edited 2007-04-10 13:46
Will you stop using the term ‘winblows’?
What are you, 12?
Here is the “What to Expect” link from the LinuxMCE website. Not quite as easy as the video made it sound. Windows MCE sounds a bit more mature, with better hardware support. Still going to try it though. I hope I am wrong, I would love to use a Linux based MCE instead of my MC 2005 box
http://wiki.linuxmce.com/index.php/What_To_Expect
That’s your opinion. However, I personally think MythTV is a better integrated solution than what Windows has to offer, and runs better on cheaper hardware.
“Runs Windows XP, TheaterTek, SageTV, PowerDVD, Zoom Player, Foobar2000, bunch’o codecs, MyHD card, AnyDVD, DVD Rebuilder, Daemon Tools, etc.”
Is this supposed to be impressive? I can mount images with svnd, play music with mpd/gmpc, watch dvd’s with vlc etc etc. And I dont even run Linux. Not saying yours arent good apps (Foobar is neat) but just listing apps is pretty pointless.
“Until Linux catches up in this little world we call multimedia, it’s just a Server OS that some people like to run as their desktop. ”
Ah, like how until windows catches up to *nix its just a desktop OS some people like to run as their server?
Anyone who is arguing that Visual Studio has comparible couterparts has never REALLY used Visual Studio. You can write more than just windows apps in there.
Have you actually looked at Eclipse? It really depends on who you talk to AND what the environment is if VS or Eclipse is the best IDE.
Several of the developers where I work prefer Eclipse over Visual Studio.
I’ll have to mention that to my teacher in CS.
Have you got a torrent link for it?
You can get e.g. VC++ express or VC# express, but I prefer VS Professional 2k5, though (MSDNAA
).
Eclipse is so damn slow – on 2 processor system with 1GB of RAM it’s unusable when compared to VS2k5Pro.
MonoDevelop is good, but it may crash very rarely when editing dialog windows and it has tons of ugly frames used as a containers. IMHO it’s the best IDE for linux.
KDevelop – personally I don’t like the sidebar with project, but it’s good environment.
Although the above are good, VS2k5 is a lot better – thousands of developers cannot be wrong
—
As for Vista – I tried it, but I prefer good old XP.
Edited 2007-04-10 06:58
“Although the above are good, VS2k5 is a lot better – thousands of developers cannot be wrong
”
And cocaine is good for you. All those users can’t be wrong.
I don’t think that using VS2k5 can harm you in any way.
I guess you never worked with even moderately large projects in VS2k5 w/ sp1. Geez, sometimes I feel like screaming during load, exit, save and/or intellisense updates. That on a dual core 3.2ghz machine with 4 gigs of ram.
I think I’ll take my unix toolchain over visual studio any day.
Not all proprietary software can be replaced with open source alternatives. If you want to run Linux though:
Oracle is a better database than MS SQL
Java is comparable to .NET, IntelliJ is an excellent IDE
I don’t know of alternatives to publisher or flash, also, Age of Empires is a great game.
Edited 2007-04-10 00:58
Flash needs no replacement as player. Editor is tricky though, but there are editors. Legality of these could be doubtful in USA, but IANAL.
Alternatives to piblisher? Scribus. And it’s a lot better. Only high class professional DTP-apps are better – and that rules out Publisher (and I’ve used Publisher since version 2.0 – then ’98, 2000 and now Publisher 2002/XP).
Oracle is huge and expensive, MS SQL server is much cheaper and even has a free edition for download, and is easier to configure and manage, not sure how it is better.
Java is comparable to .net in everything but speed, then it is no race at all, java is left in the dust
There is a free version of Oracle as well. It has similar limitations to that of the free version of MS-SQL server.
Then there is DB2 that just like Oracle is a much better database than MS-SQL server. That too have a free version with even less limitations than the free editions of Oracle and MS-SQL.
DB2 Express-C can be run on up to 2 dual-core CPU servers, with up to 4 GB of memory, any storage system setup and with no restrictions on database size or any other artificial restrictions.
That should satisfy a very large part of the market where MS-SQL is used today. Both Oracle and DB2 offers much better scalability than MS-SQL server
Is MS-SQL server that much cheaper, than Oracle? I doubt it. Oracle is $149/user minimum 5 users.
Then there are free RDBMS systems like Postgresql and to some extent MySQL that compares quite favorably with MS-SQL server both in speed and features. Just like Oracle and DB2 they run on both Linux and Windows. In fact they run on Macs and many other systems as well.
If you already are trapped into the world of MS-SQL Server, your application will be quite simple to port to Sybase that is available for Linux as well as for Windows.
I really can’t see any reason to use MS-SQL server regardless you use Windows or Linux as OS. So there is no reason that your need for a good database should lock you into windows. Besides databases are server side things where Linux already have a fair part of the market.
Edited 2007-04-10 04:01
I think we should probably stop this thread, as I much prefer MSSQL server over Oracle. You prefer Oracle, to each his own.
Perhaps if you’re talking about the perceived GUI responsiveness.
In anything else, Java and .NET are comparable on Windows. On Linux with Mono, this is where .Net gets left in the dust.
I disagree, It’s been my expereince that .net code, is faster than java code, and I’ve done simple benchmarks to prove this to my coworkers. Java is horribly slow. I much prefer using PHP on the serverside than java, and mono or .net on the client.
Right, you do understand that proper benchmarks are hard to get right? Did you do the typical iterate a for loop 1000000 times and see how long it takes?
My experience has shown me that on Windows, .NET and Java are pretty equal with the Java server VM being faster on numeric code than .Net while on Linux, Mono is having a lot of trouble even keeping up with the client VM.
While it isn’t the code that I run, I’ve found Scimark (with the -large flag)to be a good indicator of the performance I can expect from .Net and Java on the tasks I run.
I did do some loops, also some string operations, floating point and integer, some file read/writes, tried to be as comprehensive as I could without wasting a lot of time on it.
Oracle isn’t that expensive (if you run it on linux you save the cost of an OS license), plus both Orable and DB2 have free versions (the restrictions on the free version of Oracle are more restrictive than MS SQL and DB2 though).
Oracle is a better database than MS SQL
The Oracle’s price is also “much better” (read: much higher), though you can half the OS support price by buying Unbreakable linux than RedHat.
Java is comparable to .NET, IntelliJ is an excellent IDE
You can’t switch easily between platform. Eventhough same platform but different OS, migration is not that easy as you think.
I for one am getting really sick of this argument that comes out of almost every anti/pro windows/Linux article that comes up on here and the articles that are posted just to cause the grand flame war that goes on.
Also before i get into this I am a full time Linux User I don’t use windows on any of my computers anymore.
So some facts like windows still controls 89% of the market, Yes windows people 89% not 95% latest number peg Mac at 5% and Linux at 6% so that really means windows is a little less then 89 as BSD, Solaris and others should be counter. My point windows is being chipped away at little by little and things will change.
Fact We live in a windows world granted 5% & 6% are big numbers for the 2 main contenders to windows but we have a long way to climb before we are gonna be looked on in the same light.
But most important is people will use the best Tool for the Job Windows, Linux, Mac, BSD and so on.
Also to the Windows lover, Mac fanboys, and Linux Zelots being a jerk about it when ever someone mentions the other OS’s is not gonna win you any friends.
Actually it seems to be a rallying point for cliques, so I’d say it does win them friends.
The best tool for the job idea is thrown around a lot, but it does seem a bit naive to believe that each user is actually picking the best tool for the job. Would you disagree? I’m not even confident developers can pick the best platforms to target and the best tools. I’m much less confident end users care to try and pick the best platform. They likely often pick the most convenient platform.
But people definitely need to not get their panties in a bunch about it. It’s just OSes. As long as there are enough people to give me alternatives I’m content.
….on the way to a new computer. I swore that XP was the last Microsoft OS I’d buy; in the future, I’d go strictly with the Ubuntu GNU/Linux distro. But then, my computer died. Had nothing to do with the OS installed. I was able to swap hard drives to get up & running again. The old hard drive is failing, and, while I have a backup, I really needed a new box. Yeah, I coulda just replaced the hard drive, but I wanted to upgrade all else as well. So, I ended up with a Gateway laptop that has Windows Vista Home Premium on it. I am finding I really like Vista. It does everything I need to do. No muss, no fuss.
That said, I am downloading an Ubuntu Live ISO to burn to a CD. I wanna see how compatible the Gateway hardware is. Ya never know….
Wait for (or download a beta) Ubuntu 7.04 (Feisty). Great wireless auto-detection, installing of propietary codecs on-demand and support for a few sober (but impressive) desktop effects.
Yep, only 9 days from now.
They may not actually need Vista but there are a lot of people that still need windows, and if they need window s Vista will be the only windows there is a couple of years from now.
The reason is of course lack of familiar applications. It is true that you can find apps that do the same thing or almost the same thing as e.g. Photoshop but that doen’t cut it.
People who have spent a lot of time, perhaps years, learning advanced programs like Photoshop, Dreamweaver or AutoCAD are not likely to switch to something else. The cost of retraining is most likely much greater than the cost of Windows, Software and hardware upgrades needed to run the latest versions of the program they need for their job.
The only way to get these people to switch to Linux is if the Linux replacement programs offers significantly more in terms of productivity than their old windows stuff. Today most Linux replacements are just as good as the windows applications they replace. This is good news for people who haven’t spent time learning a lot of windows apps, but it doesn’t cut it for people who already have made large investments in the windows world.
Other than that, I must say Linux have come a long way and is now a very usable desktop OS. My guess is that it will be successful just like Linux is now successful on the server side, but it will take at least five years for that to happen.
First of all, software vendors must get the notion that there is some sort of standard Linux to develop for. If they have to develop separate versions for each little distro of desktop environment the userbase will be too small. Projects like portland and the Linux standard base is addressing this.
Second, it must be possible to get boxes with Linux preinstalled, not only in specialized Linux oriented shops, but in all computer stores. We are allready seing the start of this in Dell promising to sell selected models with Linux preinstalled.
Only when this have happened, companies like Adobe, will see that there is money to be made from Linux. Only then, these companies will start considering making native Linux apps or make sure that they have Linux drivers for their hardware.
On the other hand when this finally happens it will be like an avalanche impossible to stop. The first flakes of snow is already gathering along on top of the mountain. This is the final days of Microsoft as we know it.
People who have spent a lot of time, perhaps years, learning advanced programs like Photoshop, Dreamweaver or AutoCAD are not likely to switch to something else.
This is true. I’ve been a Windows user for 14 years, and it runs flawlessly for me. No viruses, no spyware, no nothing. If you want me to switch platforms (whether it be Linux, Mac, or whatever), then dispense with the politics and tell me how I’m going to be more productive on another platform. Sure, Windows takes a bit longer to set up initially, but I can run for more than 2 years off a single Windows install (yes, you can really do that if you know what the hell you’re doing), so this is not a big issue for me.
Edited 2007-04-10 01:32
never mind
Edited 2007-04-10 03:52
I have been using Windows since 1987, Windows 2.
Although I agree about the lack of ‘professional quality applications’ – if one wishes to use such a term loosely, at the same time, however, the average user doesn’t use those applications.
End users don’t go out and spend $1200 on a copy of Photoshop let alot Creative Suite with all the goodies which it entails.
As for hardware support, basic rule of thumb, stick to Nvidia and Intel, and you’ll be ok – its a nice simple rule, but it works everytime; those who buy low end laptops automatically get an Intel integrated graphics card, so its support out of the box with the latest distro using Xorg 7.2 with pretty much full acceleration. Nvidia, those who are willing to spend the extra money on one with dedicated memory, I would assume are willing to read the instructions on how to install the Nvidia accelerated driver.
For most end users, you could pretty much chuck anything on the desktop, and it would work – as long as it is provided at the point of sale via the OEM and they have people who can help them and inform them of that choice, you’ll find people will move over.
With that being said, however, what dictates what is run on most peoples computer is pretty much; what is being used at work, what is being run by people around them, and what their so-called ‘computer expert’ of the family can support.
PS. Side issue, although Ubuntu is nice, its like most Linux distributions I find, very little time spent on spit and polish making sure things actually work when shipped – “ship now, sort out the bugs later” hence my preference for OpenSolaris where I haven’t experienced any problems I found with Fedora in regards to ripping cd’s and cpu hoggage.
There does not need to be a standard distribution to target. All they need to do is release a source tarball and let us tailor it to our specific needs just like any other open source package.
There does not need to be a standard distribution to target. All they need to do is release a source tarball and let us tailor it to our specific needs just like any other open source package.
Doing so would be the politically correct way of porting software from windows to Linux. Unfortunately, this is a process that is very time consuming and expensive as it often involves large fees to lawyers and developers.
Even if company A (perhaps as in Adobe) would like to open source their program P they may not be able to do so. They may themselves use use licensed code from one or more other vendors that prevents this. This means that company A would have to choose from rewrite the parts of their program that contains the functionality provided by these vendors or to negotiate a deal. Both options are expensive as you need to pay either developers or lawyers. Sometimes it might not even be possible to rewrite for free use as the technology may be covered by patents held by other parties.
All this is very expensive and it there is very little incentive for company A to do this. It would require them to change from a product oriented business model to a service oriented one. This is not something most companies would do without careful consideration. Even if they decided to do so just reviewing their code to make sure that there are no legal problem will take quite some time if your software is as big as e.g Adobe CS.
An option could be to releas source tarballs under NDA to Linux distributers so that they could port the program to their distribution and let their users get it from some sort of non free repository. I see at least two problems in this.
First, no self respecting open source developer in his right mind would ever sign such a NDA. It might taint him and limit him from doing other open source work.
Second it would most likely only be available to Linux distros with good financial backing as the company that offers such a NDA would want to make sure that the company signing the NDA can pay resonable damages if the NDA is broken.
This means that process of getting windows software ported to Linux the politically correct way will be a very slow process, that probably only will take place as a defensive measure when the business of selling shrink wrapped software packages is threatened by other open source products.
I prefer a strategy where you get as many people to use Linux as fast as possible even if it means running some closed source software on top of Linux. The more people that start using Linux as their only OS the more money is to be made from selling Linux oriented service that can pay Linux developers that develops free software.
To make this work there need to be standards, that ensure developers of closed source softwate that their product will run on a resonable number of distros.
In fact standars are good for free software as well. If you don’t have to make alterations for every single distro out there to make your program work, your time to market will be much smaller, and time to market is important regardless if you use a service oriented business model or if you plan to sell shrink wrapped software packages. A fast time to market for free software will give it better possibilities to compete
against the windows software ecosystem. The better free software can compete the sooner old dinosaurs like Adobe or Autodesk will be forced to open their products.
window isn’t going to just go away too many people don’t like change. That being said Linux is almost ready to go completely main stream, before 2010 there will be nothing in the os holding it back anymore.
Linux still needs help moving people to open formats which is a huge step. If my media works on all systems it doesn’t hold me to a platform. Things like
jamendo.com and xvid need to become far more popular.
Show people as many gpl projects for windows as possible because more users = more developers = better software. Also it kills proprietary sofware replacing it with ad supported and service industry.
I’m sure we can all think of more things to help change the guard
Edited 2007-04-10 01:15
glest is not as good as age of empires yet but fun none the less has a windows version too
Edited 2007-04-10 01:28
Can you give me some hints for Glest. I can never survive more than about 4 minutes
Sure raver it’ a little off topic though and i don’t know if you will get it.
1 play as the tech faction to start it’s easier
2 pick a big map you get more time to prepare
3 villagers and gold are two things you need a lot of to start
4 if you have extra resources your losing
5 if all else fails you can change the values of things in the games files a text editor is all you need i think they are xml but i’m not sure its been awhile(if you edit the computers faction it messes up the ai)
thanks, I will give it a go
Reading the posts on this page, it’s amazing how far desktop Linux has come couple of years I’ve been interested in it.
Not so long ago, people claimed Linux would never take off because “ordinary users wouldn’t want to compile their own drivers”, or “mess about with text configuration files” and so on.
Now Linux will never take off because it doesn’t run Photoshop.
That’s huge progress.
Now Linux will never take off because it doesn’t run Photoshop.
—
Hehe.. obviously thats not the case. Despite some minor quircks, Photoshop runs fine on Linux. Gimp with plugins is good enough for me, however.
But I’m betting Pixel–a much cheaper cross-platform image editor–will give Photoshop a good run for its money soon enough.
Yes, because all desktop users use/need Photoshop.
Not me. I bought a new machine. No need to change OSes.
Zealots.
nobody NEEDS Vista,
because there are no “Vista-only” apps (expcect DX10 games).
So XP is in his best years, it’s relative stable, fast, runs most hardware, and 98% of the apps.
So we don’t need Vista really today, but we should give Ubuntu a try.
There aren’t DX10 games yet either.
…and that’s very good.
Games should be programmed with OpenGL, so they could be easily ported to other platforms.
at the time the Pentium MMX was around that the Pentium Pro was the power users’ choice..? – It’s a loong time ago
Heheheh. I remember some “fans” flaming everywhere how easy it is to install software compared to windows. But… this does not look easy to me:
http://www.getautomatix.com/wiki/index.php?title=Installation#Insta…
I followed the link :
<< Easy Direct Installation
Download the correct file (depending on the release version of Ubuntu and your OS architecture (386/amd64). PowerPC is not supported!)
Double click on the downloaded file to install it with gdebi or KDE’s package installer. >>
download and double click, how hard…
{ I remember some “fans” flaming everywhere how easy it is to install software compared to windows. But… this does not look easy to me:
http://www.getautomatix.com/wiki/index.php?title=Installation#Insta…..
}
The link you provided (for Automatix) says this:
“Download the correct file (depending on the release version of Ubuntu) ”
“Double click on the downloaded file to install it”.
Clearly this is considerably more difficult than the install process of Windows, which goes:
“Download the correct file (Win 95/98/Me or NT/2000 or XP or Vista). Double click on the downloaded file to install it”.
Oh, wait …
In digg.com I’d marked this “news” as spam. Ubuntu this, Ubuntu that- I already sick of *untu brainwash already. I agree with guys who define name Ubuntu as ancient african name for users who can’t configure Debian…
{ Ubuntu this, Ubuntu that- I already sick of *untu brainwash already. I agree with guys who define name Ubuntu as ancient african name for users who can’t configure Debian… }
Agreed.
OTOH, the alternative is to fall for the biggest marketing spend in history. Vista this, Vista that. Vista must be defined by those same guys as the modern American name for users who cannot see that they are the type of person Phineas Barnum (or whoever it was) was talking about when he said there is one born every minute.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There%27s_a_sucker_born_every_minu…
Edited 2007-04-10 12:39
Fedora: Who needs Ubuntu or Vista…
I do not. I do not need Windows of any version and I have not ever used it full time. To those who say Windows is necessary or a necessary evil, I say bollocks. I am able to use a Mac or Linux workstation full time. In fact, I use Fedora full time at the office and OS X full time at work. I am well able to transfer Office documents and all that from both platforms.
Unless your primary use for your computer is games, Windows is NOT necessary in any way.
If some of you want or need to use Linux, then do so… If other want or need to use Windows, then it’s their choice to. (same goes for OSX, BSD, …)
Why force a OS on someone? You use what you want and that’s all.
This is a stupid war.
1. No one is forcing anybody to use any OS (unless you are a student in the U.S.)
2. There is no war, just free expression of opinions.
3. I do not believe the discussion to be stupid, here’s why:
I believe our schools (I am in the U.S.) should be using Linux. The schools, of all places, should be using a Free as in Liberty OS. The should not be beholden to corporations. Also, our children could be learning how to really use an OS. Learn about kernels, drivers. Learn to truly manipulate text. Learn about files. Instead, our children are learning moronic interfaces – just filling out boxes and dragging and dropping text. I am afraid our children are going to appear “stupid” in the coming generations.
There are people who tell the computer what to do.
And then there are people that the computer tells them what to do.
Which group are our children in?
as they are “formatted” to Windows for more than 10 years. Honestly, it’s not really that much complex. Especially if you take time to get used to the philosophy. But how many people do I see trying Linux during MAXIMUM a couple of hours just to try to do things the same way as in Windows to end up complaining “it’s not intuitive, in Windows I can do this much faster, I do this and that, it’s not working here, blablablablabla”.
There are plenty of domains where it needs to catch up, but if we talk about the overall system, honestly it’s nothing more complex than Windows. It’s just offering you more control, which seems more complex, but you just cannot do it in Windows. I don’t think that’s the real problem. I agree with you on the Cubase part, it’s more application-specific problem like this which makes it difficult to change.
If it wasn’t for OS X, I’d be using Ubuntu as my main desktop. Using Windows has never been such a remote option to me as it is these days.
Can someone explain how a program for Ubuntu, that does things that were already very possible, releases a new version and gets the front page of OSNews? It’s a handy program but I don’t think OSNews needs to be updated every time they update their program. Granted, it was in the “In other news:” part but still…
Sorry if it seems like I’m ranting against Ax, I’m not, it just doesn’t seem significant enough for front page news.
Actually, after reading this article… this is just another in the long long line of articles about the basic benefits of Ubuntu. Almost this same article has been written so many times before– does this really deserve front page?
I dunno… I’m a mod on the Ubuntu Forums, I love the distro, I use it exclusively, but is this really newsworthy?
Fine if you can give me a lesson…
It’s not a competition about who is right or wrong here. You can probably crush me with your technical knowledge, no doubt about it. Especially if you know more about Windows that the people who write it
But here we don’t talk about technical complexity, we talk about “easy of use”, “user friendliness”. I won’t tell myself a worldwide expert in usability of OS, but I have some experience both on Windows’ and Linux’s OS, and I think it’s quite easy to build a list of advantages and disadvantes of each OS, and they would be totally right. Yet at the end, I don’t think there is such a huge difference of “complexity” between them. It all depends of your use of the computer. In some cases, I’m quite confident that Linux is less complexe to use. In plenty of other cases, Windows will be. But that’s not an obvious win for Windows, that’s just my opinion. And since a couple of years, it’s getting less and less obvious, and it should become even less obvious quickly in my opinion.
No it’s not… It’s not like if it was a major new version furthermore. I’m not ranting against Automatix, that’s an interesting software, but Feisty is not even out that we talk about an application running on it?
Microsoft.
PERIOD
You have an excellent point. Linux Distro’s don’t have the imperative need for you to upgrade. Microsoft absolutely needs for people to upgrade or they go out of business.
However, I think that may change. With Vista, I think they are searching for a way to get subscription income; e.g., Windows Live (or whatever they are calling it). The lengthy creation process of an entire new OS (2001-2007 for Vista) is no longer feasible. They will have to switch to a service model, and thus I believe we will see many incremental upgrades to Vista. I’m just not sure what the subsription model will be. Windows Live doesn’t seem to me to be enough.
If anyone could tell me how to run Delphi 6 & BDE on linux, i’d switch right now.
1. You can use Crossover OFfice 4
http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name/?app_id=839;fo…
2. You can use virtualization solutions such as VMWare, QEmu, Parallels, VirtualBox, Win4Lin Pro, etc
I will be nice. You have 5 minutes to switch!
When your work require the use of CrossOver, VMWARE or Wine, why switch? Just stay in Windows.
CrossOver and Wine are patch, simple as that. Until good (professional) software is made native for Linux, I’ll stay with Win or OSX. Just the fact that someone would require them proove that many software are missing in Linux.
There are good alternatives to most. Certainly, there are alternatives to Delphi 6 and BDE, but that wasn’t the question. The question was how do I run these exact programs under Linux (who knows why) and that is what I showed him.
When your work require the use of CrossOver, VMWARE or Wine, why switch? Just stay in Windows.
Because some people are more comfortable in Linux than Windows. I have need of a Windows install for a few apps, and for that I use VMWare. In general I find my desktop experience in Linux and OS X to be better than in Windows. I have no over riding objection to Windows, it just is not my preferred OS.
I’m having trouble responding to the various reponses my post has created (indiviual “reply” just reloads this page) so I’ll try to address them down here.
Every computer user I know uses basic apps like word processing and E-mail. that’s not a problem.
Its the vast majority of the apps we (myself and my aquantiances) use that are beyond that very narrow category. I chose these apps in particular because they’re the somewhat obscure programs that are holding down Linux adoption, at least for my aquaintances.
Firefox, OpenOffice.org, these are genral-purpose programs that I’ve been able to convince almost everyone to try. But most resist!
Most of the people I’m reffereing to are either middle-aged folks or young adults, just FYI.
They’re all locked into Windows unfortatly.
I work at a church, just one of many industries that depend on at least one Windows specific app. They need to open Publisher files for example because they or their aquaintances use Publisher, in some causes for work. Blame the developers, I know that.
Adobe apps of course are a chicken-or-egg thing. At least they and many others can run under WINE, but that isn’t a great solution for that must-have feature.
The middle-aged adults want to use the same apps at home that they do at work, or at least open the same files. At home they use wierd ISPs like Juno and AOL, and may have been using them too long to switch to a good ISP.
They use Turbotax and Microsoft Money to do fiancial work. They use the software that came with their cameras or printers for photo management and scanning.
The young adults I know all play games, that’s a Windows only thing. I’m in this category, of quite a few (future) software developers/IT personal who are being taught in a Microsoft -centric environment, with the notable exception of Eclipse. These games are also PC-only.
Its not the quality of the sofwate that matters, the Linux equivalents are usually just as good, if a bit buggier. Its the *specfic* programs or at least file types, that are platform specific.
I could never convince them to switch to Mac, despite the high-quality design and software. They already have XP and all these apps, and they work well enough for the forseeable future (as long as the machines boot and/or Windows supports Win32).
Why Vista? Its reltivly secure and has some good features over XP. The bugs will be worked out and these users won’t have a choice in 2008-2012 when they want to buy a new computer and want to retain the famialiar programs they already know.
Overall no one wants to switch because they don’t want something new that doesn’t allow them to get some of the experience of the old!
Just reading the intro I figured this much of a paraphrase…
Back in the late nineties my PC came pre-installed with windows. I went with it and windows was what I learned because I have street cred by having access to a *NIX system if I ever wanted it. Now that Ubuntu is always in my face when in regards to personal opinions about not using Vista, I have hopped on the wagon once again and have nothing to say that hasn’t been said hundreds of times on other blogs.