From a great interview with JImm Hall, founder of FreeDOS:
Hall said there are three key categories of people who use FreeDOS: People looking to run classic DOS games, businesses that need to support legacy applications and developers building embedded systems.
FreeDOS is a great project. DOS is still in use all over the place, and having it still actively developed means it’ll be around for years to come.
The fourth and arguably most important reason is to legally sell computers without paying for Windows.
True. At work I get to use a desktop running Linux, but it does not come preloaded. When I ordered a new machine from Dell, what OS was in the box? FreeDOS.
This is actually a strange idea. Installing Linux would make more sense. At least more hardware support…
The FreeDOS isn’t installed. It is simply a way to technically comply with MS rules banning hardware without an OS.
No, it is! HDD/SSD is partitioned, partition formatted files are written, bootloader is written to MBR. For all intents and purposes FreeDOS is installed. Sure, they just deploy an image, but that could be done with Linux too.
The entire point is that the FreeDOS image isn’t really intended to be used. It is only there to comply with MS demands. The user simply installs their preferred Linux distro.
I know that. Thing that bothers me is that if they had installed a Linux or some BSD, they could at least showcase hardware. Eg. it is insanely difficult to evaluate screen when all you have is DOS console.
People who are buying machines with FreeDOS instead of Windows don’t need hardware showcased. They already have a specific purpose in mind, and know full well what the hardware can do.
Linux users can never get along on a common distrubution, so it’s a waste of time. The users will install their own distro flawor anyway (and the OEM:s won’t have to bother thinking about software support either with FreeDOS).
It’s illegal to sell a computer without Windows?
No. But MS says that OEM licencees can’t sell hardware without an OS. So vendors usually supply FreeDOS on a CD.
Still? I thought they ended that practice a while ago with the anti-trust settlement with the DoJ, but OEMs just don’t bother because it was an option that not nearly enough people actually cared for.
The major OEMs all sell server hardware with no OS, too.
Huh?
While its true for desktop machine (a segment that’s slowly dying), it far from true for business workstations and servers.
E.g. I buy dozens of HP(E) servers and workstations w/o an OS.
– Gilboa
Edited 2016-07-14 06:26 UTC
Try buying a brand name laptop or desktop without an OS.
In many cases the bootloader is also locked to prevent installing any other OS.
We’re buying laptops with FreeDOS…
– Gilboa
Oddly, the only example of this I can find is of an x86 Chromebook.
I have yet to find a single actual reference of an actual product that includes Windows with a locked boot loader.
Lenovo Ideapads (I’ve got one) have locked bootloaders. They are one of the most popular ranges of budget laptops sold.
Which model do you have? I’m genuinely curious.
Did it come with Windows 10, or Windows 8/8.1?
I ask, because the OEM agreement for Windows 8 required the ability to disable secure boot, and even searching for Ideapad Secure Boot info, I’ve only seen how to disable it via a non-obvious way (First, create an admin password for the bios, and that allows secure boot to be disabled)
On several Lenovo models (including my ThinkPad Edge E325) UEFI firmware would only boot entries that are labelled “Windows Boot Manager” or “Red Hat Enterprise Linux”. See http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/20187.html for example.
ddc_,
osnews wouldn’t let me upvote you, but yeah it sounds like the firmware actually hardcoded the names of those bootloaders so nothing else would boot. What a crappy feature.
Restrictions on mobile devices already sucks, but to have it happening on PCs too is unpalatable. Most firmwares are still unlocked for windows 8 support, but in a few years windows 8 will no longer be supported and we might see more firmware become locked down. It used to be that nearly any secondhand PC from friends or ebay could support an alternative OS, what a shame it will be if more PCs become locked.
Edited 2016-07-15 16:18 UTC
ddc_ : Time will come where you are going to be an outlaw if trying to disable Google from your own car, phone or peacemaker [/AluminumHat]
Part of the actual mess is this clear delimitation on bottom of the stack responsibilities.
Should say: “unclear”.
MS offers OEMs very generous promotional incentives for only selling Windows devices.
Again, still? That was a practice that was ended with the DoJ settlement.
Do you know that they still do this? And, how?
If you agree to only sell Windows you get free cross promotion from MS. It doesn’t affect Dell or HP but it is essential for the smaller vendors who mostly sell to the home market.
Why can’t you use any other free OS for it? Linux / FreeBSD will work as well.
Because FreeDOS is simple and will definitely work as advertised.
Edited 2016-07-14 22:00 UTC
DOSBox is a better way of running classic DOS games, and it is arguably better at running legacy business applications as well.
Guess what Operating System DosBox comes pre-installed with…
Its own implementation of DOS.
Firmware and/or BIOS update was always my main use of FreeDOS. I’m surprised he didn’t mention this.
Many years used for low level maintenance. Partitioning, system backups, etc. That’s now on Linux Land. Still at my toolbox as Plan B.
The OEM installs Windows because the OEM Windows install still sells PCs in a very big numbers. Bare bones never sold worth spit — and none of the big boys ever cracked the problem of making OEM Linux mass market.
MS OEM deals effectively prevent vendors from installing Linux or selling hardware without an OS installed.
Many modern PCs also have locked bootloaders preventing any other OS from being installed.
The MS tax is real and practically unavoidable.
Sorry BS and FUD. I have yet to see a locked bootloader in the wild except for Chromebooks and as for selling units with Linux? Acer tried it, Dell tried, hell Walmart used to carry an entire line of Linux laptops and desktop and did you forget the EEE-PC? The first 2 generations of those were ALL Linux…so what happened?
Its VERY simple yet Linux fans seem to just not be able to understand this simple truth...people do not buy PCs for the OS, they buy them to run specific applications and guess what OS those applications are written to run on? The numbers back this up, if you sold your netbook with Linux on it? They saw 400% higher returns, even though Linux units was running the latest version compared to the obsolete XP.
http://www.laptopmag.com/articles/ubuntu-confirms-linux-netbook-ret…
You can sing the praises of Libre Office, delude yourself into thinking Gimp is as good as Photoshop, it really does not matter because as long as the apps people want to run are written for Windows your OS is simply not fit for their purposes.
BTW this is why I no longer sell Linux units at the shop and will strip a unit for parts rather than put Linux on it because its always the same outcome…customer buys Linux unit because it is cheaper, finds it will not run their windows applications, and they return it. They do not care if you have an ersatz or not, if it does not run their Windows programs? They simply do not want it at ANY price.
This is why MSFT can charge $100 while Linux is free and there are more people by an order of magnitude pirating Windows than taking your 100% free OS, because without their Windows applications? You might as well be offering to trade their PC for a potato. This is also why MSFT can fill Win 10 to the brim with spyware and it still got more users the first week than Linux has gotten in 20 years, because spyware or not it still runs windows apps and that is all that 99 out of 100 users give a toss about whether you or I like it or not.
It not about what apps other people want to install because we are not worried about what OTHER people want to run. We are only worried about what WE OURSELVES want to run on computers. And we absolutely DO NOT want to pay Microsoft for something that we will never, never, never, never, never (you get the idea) use. Hell can freeze over and I won’t be using Windows except at work where they PAY me to use it.
Everything I use and support outside of work, even when it comes to friends, is non Microsoft. If they have Windows I don’t touch it. I tell them to find someone else who actually supports Windows for home users and tell them that our systems are very different for support at work (which it is). The tools I use at work are not available to me when I’m not at work.
Get it?
Acer are notorious for selling machines with FreeDOS:
http://www.ebuyer.com/search?q=acer+freedos
Mind you, it’s better than when they used to ship with the godawful Linpus Linux pre-installed (just about the worst Linux distro I’d ever seen).
I bought an Aspire One ZG5 with the 120 GB HDD and Win XP). At first, that godawful Linpus Lite was the only distro to support the Jmicron card reader. Fortunately, that has long since changed
The ready-to-run MSDOS/Windows system install has been the gold standard in the PC market since the eighties.
There are contractual barriers to selling bare bones or Linux PCs.
But with the desktop market in decline, the retailer goes with what sells and doesn’t need a lot of hand-holding.
Just downloaded the FreeDOS 1.2 pre-something ISO image. And I’m happy the additional packages (Edit, Development, NET etc.) are back on the CD-ROM again.
Those where unfortunately missing on 1.1, which only provided the BASE package. The worst decision the FreeDOS devs ever made IMO.
Thanks for including them again!
Edited 2016-07-14 22:11 UTC
DOS is really useful. I did a repair of a machine manufactured by a Chinese. The control system which is a computer running a Chinese version of DOS was unable to boot due to DOM(Disk On Module) failure. I was using a USB disk to replace the DOM and installed FreeDOS on it with the backup software which controlled the machine.
Chinese machine and DOS? I’m surprised it didn’t fall to bits, or explode!
Has anybody reliably got Civ 2 working on an android tablet? I can think of a few options where FreeDos could be part of that equation. I tried a couple of years ago, but it was murder, so I gave up.
DOSBox has worked on ARM for years and years. I got Necromancer’s DOS Navigator, Battletech, and Frotz working in DOSBox on a 200MHz WinMo6 phone with 64MB RAM in 2008, although of course the Ultima games were uselessly slow.