KGI, or Kernel Graphics Interface, provides a framework that allows full 3D accellerated video card drivers to compile on different platforms without any modification to the drivers themselves. KGI, which has been developed on Linux to the point that it’s “rather stable,” is now available for xBSD.
Is it an OS X/ BSD hybrid? That would kind of be redundant and confusing.
“Is it an OS X/ BSD hybrid? That would kind of be redundant and confusing.”
X = variable that can hold Free, Open, or Net
I am a Windows user and I already find the various Linux distributions confusing. So why does BSD need to exist? All it does is confuse people.
One could say:
“I am a BSD user and I already find the various Linux distributions confusing. So why does Windows need to exist? All it does is confuse people.”
“I am a Windows user and I already find the various Linux distributions confusing. So why does BSD need to exist? All it does is confuse people.”
1. BSD existed long before Linux did.
2. Because for some applications, it is better than Linux.
3. Because many people don’t like the GPL licensing model.
4. Because people like to have choice.
If you don’t like it, so don’t use it and stop bugging us with your poor arguments.
Mmmm. Trolling.
“I am a Windows use and I already find the various…” etc.
Yeah, it’s all about the Windows people. Don’t those BSD developers know it hurts the Windows users’ brains every time they release a new version?
I am a Windows user and I already find the various Linux distributions confusing. So why does BSD need to exist? All it does is confuse people.
I already find that there are too many people in the world. So why does Slacker need to exist? All s/he does is take up space
Another good example why people think all the Linux/BSD folks are a bunch of assholes and won’t listen to anything they have to say.
Its been this way for a long time and I don’t see it changing.
Well, when some person says “I dont know anything about your project that you’ve spent decades working on, but I dont think it should even exist”, you get a little upset.
i thought i find some interesting discussion about KGI, GGI and XGGI, but…
can anyone explain me the difference between KGI/GGI and DirectFB. and between XGGI and XDirectFB?
again, two new “standards” for linux? yeah, i know, it’s a question of choice.
WTF!? ;_)
They make me glad Windows is the industry standard… I hope you’re glad that most Windows users want SCO to sue you out of existence… the world will be a happier place once these zealots are in jail.
Hmm, seems to me that it would be much easier to simply spend a little time porting all of these alternate graphics solutions to SciTech SNAP then at least Linux would have consistent graphics device support across all versions of XFree86.
KGI is the layer in the kernel.
GGI sits on-top of KGI as a set of processes.
XGGI is the X-server for the GGI libs.
the kool thing ’bout KGI/GGI is it’s supposed to figure out the best way to perform an operation auto-magically.
DirectFB is a different interface to you’re hardware.
XDirectFB is its X-server.
for more /better information just google the pages.
Dave
ummm…maybe just don’t post anything to his comments then.
are you like 10 or something? Or is it that someone posting something on here really upsets you that much? If thats the case then you should really look in the mirror and say what the hell has happened to me.
🙂
I’m running FreeBSD, and I’d like to test this whole KGI thing out.
I assume that, ultimately, KGI is part of the set of apps to replace X, is this the right assumption?
As KGi is in the kernel, would a new kernel build include it’s features, or are we talking about a kernel module? Or must it be downloaded as a patch from the net?
What are the advantages/disadvantages of KGI versus the traditional X route to graphics?
From what I can tell, KGI is a derivative of the GGI project, which I thought had died out. In the linux world GGI has been replaced by DirectFB.
The whole goal of these projects is to do the “modern OS” thing and move the drivers from user space to kernel space. XFree86 currently must run as root since it directly accesses and initializes the video cards independent of the kernel. KGI and DirectFB both provide a uniform API for initialization and access of the video devices.
XDirectFB and XGGI are rootless implementations (no direct hardware access) of the X11 server that use the KGI/DirectFB to do the low level work. Therefore, no need to rebuild X11 at all ever for new video hardware support or for 3d acceleration.
So that MS has some place to steal new OS ideas from without needing to give anyone but themselves credit for the ideas
(I know, this is a troll).
I usually dont respond to these trolls, but…
If you don’t understand why BSD’s (or anything for that matter) exist and/or don’t care
1. Why don’t you go read, or try installing them.
2. If you don’t care, why read the articles about them and post
silly questions that you KNOW have been answered 50,000 times?
3. If you dont understand choice then look at all the video games there
are. You don’t question that.
Use Google. Search. Read. Learn.
Then you must be a totally big idiot…
Windows itself uses some BSD code…
Talk about Linux/BSD Zealots.
You’re nothing more than a ignorant, childish, and immature Windows user + troll.
Atleast other Windows users use some of their common sense when posting a comment in places like this.
oh please…..maybe you could think of something a little more original…….thats like the classic post all you Linux/BSD assholes post.
If your going to be a worthless troll…..at least think of something more original.
Hey, it’s cheaper than going to the petting zoo and getting a $1 pack of seeds to feed those ostriches.
Well, with post like Slacker’s, it makes Windows users look like ignorant newbies to computers.
well….seeing that I am using BSD about 90% of the time…..your the idiot.
Why don’t you read my post a little more and then respond….I didn’t make one comment on either Windows or Linux/BSD be better….my comment was about you freakin losers who support the movement…..and like I said before this doesn’t hold true for all…but for like 90% of you people it does.
So who is the idiot? I would say the one that can’t read….which would be you.
Um, Ok now that the Windows bunghole has put in his comment we can get on back to KGI (the topic of this thread!) I have been watching it for some years and wondering why it hasn’t progressed much. When I found out that there was a BSD port I started to see it as more useful and more importantly less dead. What I would like to know is if this is from the same developers as the Linux version, what they plan on doing now that they have it running on Linux and the BSD, and so on. Maybe an interview would lift some curtains for me. (and others I’m sure)
P.S. I use windows and and Linux, I like the BSDs, Hurd even more and can’t wait till somebody comes up with a new FS/OSS OS. That’s the reason for OSNews isn’t it?
Your original post:
Another good example why people think all the Linux/BSD folks are a bunch of assholes and won’t listen to anything they have to say.
Its been this way for a long time and I don’t see it changing.
My response was nothing but the same thing as yours, going the other way around…
God sakes… I never called you ignorant… That place belongs to slacker.
To add on… Wake up? I never really sided with one OS or the other. I use Windows 90% of the time, besides Linux and OpenBSD.
Sheesh… It’s not a matter of misreading, but not understanding each other clearly.
That’s why there is Clarica… Bugger.
the internet is great… except all you nerds can hide in your rooms with out being beaten up. its easy to talk shit when you behind your keyboard. whiney little babies.
fags.
Including you… Sadly.
Moderation …. please.
BSD is dying…
😛
lol… time to leave this place before any more harm is done to me and the site…
Whatever, I would love to nazi stomp your carcus.
You teet ass, meat bag. You see my domain name.
Dallas1, come visit me. Get punked by a Texan.
‘//Including you… Sadly.’//
wow…we agree. 🙂
it is a good thing you live in texas adam as if you lived in germany they would of already killed you for saying you are a nazi.
Adam, if that’s the only way you can prove yourself, by physically hurting another person, then I feel bad for your wife/children.
Anon @ Ameritech guy: Scary shit… I mean… maybe we should gang up on adam and show him what nerds are made of?
“”show him what nerds are made of””
Same as the rest of us I presume. Do you really think a biology slideshow is going to make someone back down? :>
Peragrin: Quiet Yourself you Frenchman. If you lived in Texas, I would cancel your next birthday.
BP: Don’t feel sorry, thats not the only way to prove myself. Its a burst of rage because of all your squids, always whining on OSNews. If someone, doesn’t like something (ie. BSD) why read and post negatively about it? If you want me to prove myself another way, give me your ip.
As for you and Ameritech, you should buy tickets for Dallas together, probably cheaper that way. Save your money for your jaw replacement.
adam. (father)
Guess what… Like you said, it’s the internet.
You’re free to comment or whine about what you want, and whine about people whining. Am I right about this?
In languages that do text/variable substitution (perl, sh) that would be:
{x}BSD.
In languages that do not (most others) that would be:
x + BSD.’
🙂
I would assume a biology slideshow would either a.) bore the texan to death. b.) confuse the texan to death.
Otherwise, both ways would be sufficient.
Adam, give me your address and I’ll come over there and kick your ass in a game of chess. Timers will be at 4 hours, maximum 20 min per move. etc.
Be scared.
Instead of “BSD is dying” now people troll with “BSD should die.” Interesting…
Still stupid though.
KOMPRESSOR
Instead of “BSD is dying” now people troll with “BSD should die.” Interesting…
Slashdot style: (+5, Funny)
🙂
90% of this thread is nothing but trash. This is why I rarely read the comments on this site. Don’t people have more productive things to do?
Thank you….you just added to the trash…..way to go man.
Adam……email me at [email protected] and I will be glad to give you directions to my front door.
Slacker knows everything we do and just set those comments here to try to start a flamewars… He most probably doesn’t mean anything he said… just wanted to generate a mess. The type of things he said and the way he said them makes me believing his just a prick that does know about *BSD’s and Linux and did that just to make everybody go nuts, or to try to help hurting the “Winusers Community” using reverse psicology….
no interest
no interest
—
really.
Great answer!!!
no thanks..
I’ll just call you.
Ph. 814-360-1517
You dirt bag.
That was your number.
Anyway, I know most of your time is taken up by reading your daily AOL stats.
ok….you truly are a pussy.
“I am a Windows user and I already find the various Linux distributions confusing. So why does BSD need to exist? All it does is confuse people.”
I am a FreeVSD user and I already find the various Windows version confusing. So why does Windows need to exist? All it does is confuse people.
FreeVSD/FreeBSD even
I hate to admit ignorance but can someone explain what the benefit of KGI is over the current methodology? Is it effectively an abstraction layer such as Windows uses?
This is not a troll so please don’t take it as such it just does not seem clear to me what this is supposed to simplify. Does it make driver development easier, 3d programming easier, both, or something else entirely.
So that MS has some place to steal new OS ideas from without needing to give anyone but themselves credit for the ideas
(I know, this is a troll).
Not completely since the tcp ip protocol of windows is (kind of) stolen from the bsd’s implementaion (if not tottaly identical).
Conclusion:
If (Free)BSD did not exist windows users would not be only less confused but they would be also without a fast and efficient tcp/ip (the internet network core protocols that sustain the other protocols http-ftp-etc).
Also, without BSD there would be a windows system for the hotmail protocol (built on a BSD operating system) and new users of outlook express would had to create a new mail account on a unsecure windows mail server.
(I must be crazy for paying attention to this, … well, it’s summer time, when eugenia gets back you will all be banned
______________________________
XFree should be the only standard for *nix, it would be easier to get vga cards vendors to pay attention to *nix drivers. 4 diff projects just seems to much fragmentation. Choice here is bad, unless it’s just and experiment of new ideias … (is it ?)
It seems that the fight has started without me reading the rules. So stop a minute and let me read the rules.
the first rule of fight club is
you do not talk about fight club.
the second rule of fight club is
you DO NOT talk about fight club.
third rule
if someone goes limp, taps out, the fight is over.
fourth rule
only two guys to a fight.
fifth rule
one fight at a time.
sixth rule
no shirts. no shoes.
seventh rule
fights will go on as long as they have to.
and the eighth and final rule is
if this is your first night of fight club, you have to fight.
Remember, our generation has had no Great Depression, no Great war. Our war is spiritual. Our depression is our lives.
Now let’s get back to it. Who’s new this week?
Dr. Tyler Durden
Um, your post has some glaring mistakes:
1) Moving stuff into kernel space is not the “modern OS” thing to do. Its the stupid Windows thing to do. It makes the system less stable, and doesn’t do anything for performance that intelligent buffering can’t do. Some of the fastest GUIs (BeOS’s and QNX’s) have been totally userspace. Heck, in QNX, even most of the graphics driver is a seperate process from the GUI server.
2) XFree86 does not have to be recompiled to use new drivers or hardware. The XFree86 driver API has been stable since 4.0.3 (we’re almost at 4.4 now). In fact, the XFree86 driver API is so modular, that properly written XF86 drivers are OS independent.
First, I admit that I don’t know much about this so correct me if I’m wrong.
I have looked at both the KGI and DirectFB projects and I prefer the idea of KGI, because DirectFB requires that you have root access to run any graphics program. Since KGI is in the kernel, it should provide a fast and secure way of accessing the graphics card without requiring root access. This is similar to the way most device drivers work, and better IMHO.
just my $0.02
What is different about BeOS’s GUI (compared to Xfree) that makes it so fast? Since it runs in user space it would have to use some sort of inter process communication, which is where the latency problems in X come up. That is unless it used direct rendering, but even then it would still need IPC for events handling etc.
I have heard how BeOS has the most responsive GUI and some of the ideas used in BeOS would come in useful in making a replacement for X.
Lol adam. You’re probably a 12 year old little boy taking out your frustrations on others. Try growing up a little. Maybe someday you’ll learn to use your brain. Typical American, always resulting to violence.
Are you kidding?
You bad mouth America? Who are you and where are you from.
You shit piece. America will crush you and your wiltered country. We dont always resort to violence. We do that when you fluffs cry your tears and act like women. I would bet $50 that you are from europe. Yes europe with a lowercase e. You are worthless. We invented cars, computers and peanut butter. Discovered electricity. Without Americans you wouldn’t be typing on that eMachine with AOL. Nor be driving to work tomorrow. Although since you are 15, I doubt you have a job. I am not 12, I am 22, I just wonder why people who use don’t use BSD’s read the articles about it? Don’t say to learn. You come in and post negatively. No purpose. I realize that I am doing the same, but I have been reading this site since you where a dribble down your mothers leg. It continuously gets worse because of you mounded sheep. Use what you like. I don’t care if you don’t like Windows/Unix/Linux/BeOS/Etcetera, nor does anyone else. So don’t come say why it sucks. If you don’t like, shut your face, and use what you are using. Your comments are not constructive nor usefull. This is my final post of outrage. Post about what you know, or have a legit question about. Not whines.
-adam
>You bad mouth America? Who are you and where are you >from.
>You shit piece. America will crush you and your wiltered >country. We dont always resort to violence. We do that >when you fluffs cry your tears and act like women. I >would bet $50 that you are from europe. Yes europe with a >lowercase e. You are worthless. We invented cars, >computers and peanut butter.
That’s why the world hates americans… Because of some people like you that don’t know what “arrogance” means..
Fortunatelly, there are some inteligent people in your country to create computers and cars… Because people like you only knows how to be an asshole..
…and, honestly, there’s a lot of better food out there than peanut butter. But because of your closed mind, you can go back to eat your delicious McDonalds…
I find it funny that the common conception is that an American had the original idea for cars, Germany actual had the first motorized vehicle, it ran on steam. Henry Ford who was a brilliant man made cars available to the general public by designing the Assembly line production model. You owe him credit that you can afford a car and that cars progressed, but honestly get your facts straight.
good lord, the trolling here goes beyond even slashdot.
Nazis stomping ppl? wtf? and only what 4 posts on topic? what happened to this site?
Yeah got any links giving descriptions on QNX graphics setup it sounds fairly interesting, to be honest i havn’t had much of a look at QNX but the more i hear about it the more i like it.
As for comments about europe and america, enough i don’t see how this has anything to do with Operating systems so please just feck off to slashdot
Who is “we”?
The *real* automobile was also invented outside USE:
– January 29th 1886 Carl Benz gets Patent Nr. 37435 for first motorwagon
http://www.automuseum-ladenburg.de/meilensteine.html
– 1896 Henry Ford completes his first automobile, the Quadricycle, and drives it through the streets of Detroit.
http://www.hfmgv.org/exhibits/hf/chrono.asp
> We invented [..] computers
Have you ever heard of Konrad Zuse?
http://www.epemag.com/zuse/
There may be countless first anything that did not hapenen in the US of america but beeing thougt off by steriotype-guy.
>…and peanut butter.
aha – you’re just joking
Sometimes I wish we hadn’t invented America.
Clap Clap Clap
>>…and peanut butter.
>aha – you’re just joking
(-:
Um, your post has some glaring mistakes:
> 1) Moving stuff into kernel space is not the “modern OS” thing to do. Its the stupid Windows thing to do…
> 2) XFree86 does not have to be recompiled to use new drivers or hardware…
Hmmm…probably because xfree essentially inserts itself into the system as a kernel level process (why does it HAVE to run as root???), it’s the only vehicle for allowing access to the video system while it runs.
Moving stuff into the kernel like access and initialization and other very basic primitives is not a bad thing! I’m not talking about the extremes windows went to.
There’s an example of 2 extemes out there right now. MS throws the graphics access whole kitchen sink into the kernel. Xfree on the other hand declares itself as the kernel part of the graphics access system. Both of these are fundamentally flawed. DirectFB and KGI both are attempts at trying to find a sane solution to the problem.
Someone stated that we should replace X11 with kgi/ggi. Because X11 is slow.
Is that even true? I thought that any slowness experienced with a X11 implementation was due to non preemptive kernel and/or porly implemented GUI`s ONTOP of X11.
Would there be any benefits of implementing X11 ontop of kgi?
Please everyone, stop the trolling. We are not here to discuss politics/religion/offtopic. Im really not amused by the trolls on these forums, I wish Eugenia would come back and rule the forums as she did before.
Back on topic, I never heard of KGI before but it seems rather interesting. If the hardware makers would write drivers for KGI, it could prove to be quite interesting.
As I see it, the kernel should be a HAL, the word we know from Windows: Hardware Abstraction Layer. Then a userland daemon can manage each Hardware Abstract device. Thus:
– the Kernel should convert PostScript to the printer language. LPD and such can just send a postscript file to the printer.
– the Kernel should provide a basic video system. For an X-server’s point of view, the video card does not matter.
– The Kernel provides networking functions, userland daemons use them.
KGI fits nicely in this picture, so I like it.
Adam’s IP is 67.30.12.100 if anyone wants to pay the whiney little shit a visit.
He’s running Windows without a firewall (hey what could possibly happen?) and appears to have applied the RPC DCOM patch. Port 135 open if anyone wants to send him a popup or ten.
This post brought to you by the letters N,M, A and P.
Hmmm…probably because xfree essentially inserts itself into the system as a kernel level
>>>>>>>>
Not it doesn’t! Root != kernel level. An XFree86 crash cannot crash the kernel, except when it causes the hardware to do something that crashes the machine (which is unavoidable).
process (why does it HAVE to run as root???)
>>>>>>>>
Because it needs direct access to hardware ports. But this access is done in an entirely protected way, via the ioperm mechanism. Basically XFree86 gets access to only the hardware ports used by the graphics card, the mouse, and the keyboard. It gets no special access to anything else.
Moving stuff into the kernel like access and initialization and other very basic primitives is not a bad thing!
>>>>>>>>>
It’s not, but XFree already does this. For regular old 2D, it doesn’t need to do initialization or basic primitives in kernel space. For 3D, the only thing which needs to run in kernel space is the component that handles interrupts and copying command buffers to the GPU. And this is exactly how DRI works.
> Not it doesn’t! Root != kernel level.
Technically no, effectively…yes…i’m talking hardware abstraction issues here. The whole deal of a modern OS is that the OS is able to abstract the hardware so a program doesn’t need to know what kind of video card it’s running (although it would be polite if it could get that information). I’ll agree, doing it for video, especially 3d is difficult, especially with the rate which hardware vendors are currently innovating. It appears that KGI might have a good approach to it.
> Because it needs direct access to hardware ports. But this access is done in an entirely protected way, via the ioperm mechanism. Basically XFree86 gets access to only the hardware ports used by the graphics card, the mouse, and the keyboard. It gets no special access to anything else.
Hmm…direct access to the mouse and keyboard…there’s some other issues i have (how come i only have 3 buttons working on my 7 button mouse?).
So therefore when someone else needs/wants to write some other display engine/server, they are either stuck with the XFree86 architecture or have to implement drivers from the ground up. XFree86 currently has a huge monopoly on the video driver market and it seems like there isn’t any way to share. And apparently KGI/DirectFB decided they had no choice but to reimplement from the ground up.
XFree does what it does very well, implement the X protocol. By now its glaringly obvious the hardware driver architecture absolutely doesn’t belong inside XFree86, otherwise there wouldn’t be a multitude of display drivers being written to address all the same hardware (KGI, XDirectFB, AcceleratedX, SciTech, etc…)
I agree. Hardware abstraction belongs in the kernel. That’s why I like the idea of KGI.