Home > Linux > Linux 2.6.0-test9 Released Linux 2.6.0-test9 Released Submitted by DaMouse 2003-10-25 Linux 63 Comments Here comes the 9th test release of Linux 2.6.0 and looking good with Linus Torvalds saying he’s pleased with all developments since test7 and that the stability freeze was a good move. New features include Serial-ATA support and XFS fixes. About The Author Eugenia Loli Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker. Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli 63 Comments 2003-10-25 10:10 pm Linus also seemed to hint that 2.6.0 final would come out after the test10 release! 2003-10-25 10:39 pm is the final release due? And don’t tell me “when it’s ready” please. 2003-10-25 10:41 pm It really does sound like we’re getting close to 2.6, and some people already claim it’s more stable than 2.4 ever was. I’m really looking forward to trying this kernel; I just haven’t had time to sit down and make 2.6 run on my machine yet. Because I use devfs/Nvidia and other tweaks, it might be a bit more work than otherwise, but I know it can be done. Still, I expect we’ll be seeing the real thing before November is out, and it will undoubtedly spur Linux onto greater heights. 2003-10-25 10:55 pm i would like to try the 2.6 kernel. if anyone know if there is any how-to or tutorial page about upgrading from 2.4 to 2.6. sorry about all small cases,i post this using pocket pc in bed via bluetooth 2003-10-25 10:56 pm Please people this won’t fix Linux’s nagging sore like issues like package management, a much needed clean unified gui, or comercial application support or it’s old 3rd world communist like GPL-Licensing issues. No kernel could ever fix the mess known as linux. 2003-10-25 11:03 pm http://kerneltrap.org/node/view/799 2003-10-25 11:03 pm alspnost: I also use DEVFS and the official NVIDIA drivers, and they work GREAT with 2.6 (in fact, I get better video performance with the drivers). So dont let that stop you, you can get the patch from: minion.de joe user: go over to kerneltrap.org, they have a nice step by step tutorial for how to install it, and they also have one for how to apply kernel patches. Hopes: Test8 kind of messed up my console, it created artifacts all over my screen (isn’t that wierd?), so Im hoping that small annoyance is fixed. 2003-10-25 11:03 pm Why didn’t you provide it? Here it is http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/ChangeLog-2.6.0-test9 2003-10-25 11:03 pm the purpose of gpl is that source code that are opened must remain open. knowledge belong to the world 2003-10-25 11:18 pm 2.6.0-test8 is quite stable here, especially compared to test6 & 7. I guess it will be ready for late november. 2003-10-25 11:22 pm All I have to say to linus is… http://www.yourethemannowdog.com/ 2003-10-25 11:31 pm Both Linux (with 2.6) and BSD (NetBSD 2.0, FreeBSD 5.x) are gearing up for some great upcoming releases. I think in a couple of year’s time, Linux will have surpassed Solaris et al in scalability. But Sun will still be shouting “its not for the server room”… my opinion is that commercial software has no place in the server room. You just cannot depend on one single vendor to run your mission critical stuff. What if the vendor has back doors in the code? What if they go out of bussiness? Open source is much better, and projects like Linux kernel 2.6 are proof. 2003-10-25 11:42 pm Package management has nothing to do with the kernel, so 2.6 or not 2.6 package management is a separate issue. Disagree on open source in the server realm, I have loved proprietary OSs on the server room because of their consistency in programs and the operating system as a whole. The whole design is well thought out and structured from top to bottom and applications don’t break with every upgrade. Don’t get me wrong, Linux is powerful. It is just a piece mail world of software applications that work together only after a lot of work. Upgrading single applications without rebuilding or installing other packages, then other packages…Consistency is lacking, management tools, text files, just a bit messy. This has nothing to do with the kernel, just everything sitting on top of it. 2003-10-25 11:49 pm how your post was acceptable, I do not know, but your trolling is apparent. >>package management not that big of an issue where Linux is being used, besides which, package managment is realy only worth using for updating the system, in which case, the Distrobution can do it any way they like. for consumer level software, an installer system, a-la install sheold is a much better option, and as can be seen with Mozilla and Open Office, is easy to use. >>a much needed clean unified gui the UI is not an issue. the interoperability is fine and the UIs are very clean and usable. please point us to what is so bad about either Gnome or KDE. >>comercial application support not much of a problem since there are perfectly fine alternatives on Linux. it is fine for business, though a consumer level OS, the software is not on teh shelf yet. but that is not going to be an issue after business moves onth Linux for their workstations. >>old 3rd world communist like GPL-Licensing issues nice old troll created by MS. there is nothing old or communist about the GPL. 2003-10-26 12:00 am I agree with some of your concerns, but disagree about inconsistency. I’ve found that all of the GNU tools and utilities are very consistent and powerful, and that’s why I like them so much. 2003-10-26 12:15 am I congratulates you on finding propriatory software so useful and consistent in your server room. However, in my experience propriatory software need patches as well and somtimes they break existing applications. I don’t think Linux is any worse than Solaris or AIX in this respect. At least it is far better in this respect than anything that Microsoft can offer, but still some people use Microsoft on their servers. 2003-10-26 12:36 am I am using the development kernel (the mm source tree) on 3 productive servers and have no big issue with them. One of the servers is runing IBM Domino R6 and I must say, that the development kernel is much much faster then the 2.4 kernel series. Stability is since serval 2.6.0 test releases, an non issue. Have not had any single crash with it. And since I did not have any single kernel crash with 2.4 either, I can not compare the stability of 2.4 against 2.6. 2003-10-26 12:38 am “Please people this won’t fix Linux’s nagging sore like issues like package management” So, tell me *where* can you find something better than what linux offers you today. “a much needed clean unified gui” gnome 2.X is far more clean than XP. “unification” would be stupid. Diversification is what makes it evolve. “it’s old 3rd world communist like GPL-Licensing issues” Communism didn’t worked in the real world. Surprisingly, communism is something that *really works* when you’re in a open software development environment. 2003-10-26 12:49 am >>how your post was acceptable, I do not know, but your >>trolling is apparent. Yeah because it’s okay to bash Microsoft but as soon as you point out that the emperor penguin has no clothes on you Linux fan-boys hit the “Report abuse” button like a Al Sharpton hitting a fast food joint after hard day of race baiting and chasing ambulances. >>package management >>>not that big of an issue where Linux is being used, >>>besides which, package managment is realy only worth >>>using for updating the system, in which case, the >>>Distrobution can do it any way they like. for consumer >>>level software, an installer system, a-la install sheold >>>is a much better option, and as can be seen with Mozilla >>>and Open Office, is easy to use. What planet are you living on ? Here on earth Linux’s fragment package management system has a habit restricting users to RPM hell. >>a much needed clean unified gui >>>the UI is not an issue. the interoperability is fine and >>>the UIs are very clean and usable. please point us to >>>what is so bad about either Gnome or KDE. Yeah okay ! Try to copy’n paste in KDE with a Gnome app. Or better yet try it with something like mozilla or openoffice. I won’t even mention the GUI inconsistencies for applications. >>comercial application support >>>not much of a problem since there are perfectly fine >>>alternatives on Linux. it is fine for business, though a >>>consumer level OS, the software is not on teh shelf yet. >>>but that is not going to be an issue after business moves >>>onth Linux for their workstations. Keep on dreaming buddy. Face it any commercial software company worth it’s stock value would never port over apps to linux. The endn result is having to give up your source code so that some anti-social socialist hippy programmer can copy all your hard work and put it up on source forge as a GPL’d application. Besides what is the boss going to say when he/she can’t run Office, Exchange, Lotus Notes, or other mission critical app, etc…on linutz without resorting to emulating windows using some half-bake alpha quality application known as wine ? >>old 3rd world communist like GPL-Licensing issues >>>nice old troll created by MS. there is nothing old or >>>communist about the GPL. Please !!! Commercial software has and always will lead the way in the software world. While amateurs in the OSS world copy and steal in order to innovate. Companies like Adobe, Intuit, etc… put out quality applications to make money in this capitalistic country called the United States. GPL is designed to be a socialist tool to tear down all that has been built via companies in the software world to achieve some false socialist fantasy land for geeks. 2003-10-26 12:57 am >how your post was acceptable, I do not know, but your >trolling is apparent. Sorry by I found it post to have some good points. >>package management >not that big of an issue where Linux is being used, besides >which, package managment is realy only worth using for >updating the system, in which case, the Distrobution can do >it any way they like. for consumer level software, an >installer system, a-la install sheold is a much better >option, and as can be seen with Mozilla and Open Office, is >easy to use. I think the package management is fine as it is. Users have the option to use ports/apt or just good’old manually install. >>a much needed clean unified gui >the UI is not an issue. the interoperability is fine and the >UIs are very clean and usable. please point us to what is so >bad about either Gnome or KDE. Sorry, I have to agree with the OP here. The UI is an issue, apple researched this and they found users work better with a UI that is uniformed in apperance. Microsoft have also taken the same approch, throughout Microsoft applications and any 3rd party programs you’ll find the same UI layout. the menus look the same, They have the same basic menu items, file edit view help etc. The menus in the same place, they items have the same keyboard shortcuts etc. I’m not trying to turn this into a Microsoft vs Linux war here as Windows also suffers from some applications not following the UI, but windows does provide the basics for most applications to work from using the default widgets and contols. Under x window that isn’t provided by the window manager but by the applications needs and the lib files they use. I think this is what the OP was trying to get across. It will be a long time until x window get a uniformed UI. What needs be done is setting up somekind of a ‘use only this lib set’ options somewhere. But of course that would cause application incompatibilities. There also needs to be some kind of of RFC for application UI features (ie menus and the defaults used). One of the greatest things under linux is that is can be customised. Its also, unfortunatly, one of its greatest downfalls. >>comercial application support >not much of a problem since there are perfectly fine >alternatives on Linux. it is fine for business, though a >consumer level OS, the software is not on teh shelf yet. but >that is not going to be an issue after business moves onth >Linux for their workstations. Agreed, you don’t need to pay for well written software, but I do think there are far too many software titles that get started and are never close finished. It seems a lot of people make a new version instead helping with development of whats already there. >>old 3rd world communist like GPL-Licensing issues >nice old troll created by MS. there is nothing old or >communist about the GPL. Agreed. The GPL is very good if used correctly. 2003-10-26 1:00 am The reason it should be modded is because this is about the LINUX KERNEL. The KERNEL has no control over ANY of the things that other troll mentioned (apart from the GPL flamebait). Now, if this news piece was about Package Management, GUI’s, and the GPL, it would be more acceptable. 2003-10-26 1:03 am Yeah because it’s okay to bash Microsoft but as soon as you point out that the emperor penguin has no clothes on you Linux fan-boys hit the “Report abuse” button like a Al Sharpton hitting a fast food joint after hard day of race baiting and chasing ambulances. There’s a way to complain about something without acting like a troll fresh out of high school like you do. 2003-10-26 1:04 am IP: —.client.attbi.com, your old on this site now. Always using the same bate to get some attention, the same topic of complaints and trivial ranting. In fact, I hate myself for giving you my atention now. But you are worn out now. Where has your previous name gone? “Anonytroll” I believe it was. 2003-10-26 1:20 am What planet are you living on ? Here on earth Linux’s fragment package management system has a habit restricting users to RPM hell. the only time you run into RPM hell is when you don’t use APT for RPM to add crap to Read hat or some other distribution based on RPM. Redhat provides a nice easy update system that does not cast you into RPM hell. and as I said, OO.o and mozilla use an installer rather than package management crap so they get around this problem of RPM hell. any software installed on Linux by an end-user SHOULD use an installer, unfortunately most do not. this is not an issue about package management, it is an issue about application distribution. Yeah okay ! Try to copy’n paste in KDE with a Gnome app. Or better yet try it with something like mozilla or openoffice. I won’t even mention the GUI inconsistencies for applications *highlights text, navigates to place I want to pase, middle clicks* wow it works also, KDE and Gnome have been using shared Clip boards since KDE hit 3.0 and Gnome hit 2.2 OO and MOzilla need to be fixed themselves, the clipboard on Linux works fine. eep on dreaming buddy. Face it any commercial software company worth it’s stock value would never port over apps to linux. The endn result is having to give up your source code so that some anti-social socialist hippy programmer can copy all your hard work and put it up on source forge as a GPL’d application. Besides what is the boss going to say when he/she can’t run Office, Exchange, Lotus Notes, or other mission critical app, etc…on linutz without resorting to emulating windows using some half-bake alpha quality application known as wine ? did I say that it was happening now? no, like any OS, it needs to have a Business desktop presence for there to be any commercial app support. do I care if MS Office is ported to Linux? no, I have OO. do I care about internet Explorer? no, I have mozilla. do I care about development tools? no I have GNU tools. do I care about Games? no games are toys and do not belong on a work machine. tell me what application keeps it off business desktops? there is none. only stupid CIOs who fall for the MS FUD. here’s a clue about what is going on out side the US…business is using Linux and so re the governments. Please !!! Commercial software has and always will lead the way in the software world. While amateurs in the OSS world copy and steal in order to innovate. Companies like Adobe, Intuit, etc… put out quality applications to make money in this capitalistic country called the United States. GPL is designed to be a socialist tool to tear down all that has been built via companies in the software world to achieve some false socialist fantasy land for geeks. yeah, I guess it was commercial software that gave us the World wide web, Internet browsers, nice security software (kerbos and PGP etc), the best web server around, etc. 2003-10-26 1:23 am Here on earth Linux’s fragment package management system has a habit restricting users to RPM hell. Not really. Here on earth I use urpmi and RPM hell is something of the past. Oh, and this is another perfect opportunity for a shameless autopackage plug. Autopackage makes wintrolls cry in bed. Try to copy’n paste in KDE with a Gnome app. Or better yet try it with something like mozilla or openoffice. Easy. Select text. Go to where you’re supposed to paste. Click the middle button. Voilà! I won’t even mention the GUI inconsistencies for applications. What, you mean like in Windows? I often have RealOne player, Lotus Notes, ACDSee, Word and Quicken open in Windows. None of these apps have UIs that are consistent with one another. It is true that the Emperor wears no clothes – but you’re mistaken about his identity. He resides in Redmond and he’s not a penguin. 2003-10-26 1:27 am Face it any commercial software company worth it’s stock value would never port over apps to linux. The endn result is having to give up your source code so that some anti-social socialist hippy programmer can copy all your hard work You realize that this is utter and total crap, right? That it is a false sentence? A lie? Pure FUD? That there’s not a single truth in there? That you are just full of it? That it’s untrue, a yarn, a tall tale, spin, a misinterpretation, disinformation, propaganda, an inacurrate observation? That it couldn’t be further from the truth? That it can easilty be proven false with numerous examples? Just wanted to make sure you knew about it… 2003-10-26 1:35 am No, sorry – I have much better grammar than this person. I suppose you can imagine there are two different people using OSNEWS on the one of the largest providers of broadband in the United States. Anyway, is there any mention of the LG CD-ROM issue affecting 2.6? Have there been any reports of 2.6 being affected by this bug? 2003-10-26 1:37 am Typo monster strikes again. Oh well. At least I attempted to form a coherent thought. 2003-10-26 2:13 am It’s misconceptions like the troll put in that really annoys me. People say “Linux is bad because ithas bad package management and poor UI’s” really don’t know what linux is – and so far I’ve only seen one person refute that fact. It is rather unintelligent to start an argument over something that you really don’t know about! Linux is the kernel, the UI is just a program like any other (okay, not just like any other, but I think you see my point), and the package management is up to the distro. Personally, I use a source-based distro which the package management is quite nice. The very thing I like about linux over windows is the ability to customize the kernel to my heart’s content. I also like the fact that the open source philosophy lets me do things with software that I can’t otherwise – like build it myself, or go in and make changes to the code if I find something not quite right. Is windows a more mature total package? Well, yes – but it’s had more time (~10 years) and therefore more experience. Linux systems will get there – it’s got a strong foothold in the academic and scientific community (at least where I’m at), it will just take some time. It’s not a niche market product anymore and will continue to get more serious attention. To the troll – grow up, people who get a kick out of starting flames are simply childish. To those who came to the defense of linux – don’t forget what linux really is, and set people straight about the difference between a kernel and a distro. To everyone else – I got nothin else, so..Hi! –Joe 2003-10-26 2:17 am I didn’t mention 2.6 – it looks like it’s gonna rock! I can’t wait to get some time to try it out on my machine – I’ve run the a pre-emptibale patched 2.4.22 kernel for a while with some noticible increases in performance while doing user-mode things in xfce4 –Joe 2003-10-26 5:00 am In regards to an earlier post indicating research by Apple and Microsoft has revealed that users work better with a consistent UI. Microsoft supposedly has this… but there are a number of applications still available that have a dated Windows 95 appearance plus look at Microsoft Office… every damn release comes out with another UI that alienates it from the rest of the platform… I’ve never used a Mac (well since the late 80’s) but they seem to be the only mature platform to look consistent throughout except for the brushed metal look some apps have. 2003-10-26 6:58 am maybe this is an uninformed question, anyone know where I can find a list of new hardware supported in 2.6? or the new driver changes between 2.4 – 2.6? Anyone know if 802.11b cards are better supported in 2.6? for the people who post useless rants, please, by all means, use whatever software makes you happy. If you don’t like an OS and refuse to use it, then don’t use it and ignore it. 2003-10-26 8:17 am The thing that has always amused me about the GPL is that it is entirely incompatible with a s/GPL/PGL [search and replace] version of itself. Witness the OpenSSL debacle — OpenSSL is released under an open-source license with the condition that it cannot be distributed under any other license (just like the GPL itself restricts changes in license!). Hence Debian and the GPL-Nazis won’t touch it and do throw away their own resources re-inventing the wheel because of their blind loyalty to their license of choice. OTOH, I’m looking forward to seeing the 2.6 kernel finally hit general release. 2003-10-26 8:39 am You’re wrong. The GPL is compatible with these licenses: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html Where’d you get that idea? 2003-10-26 8:40 am Karina, stop being as agressive, or I will ban your IP and you will not be able to access this site again. No, I am not “AnyTroll”. We simply using the same ISP, why is this so difficult to understand? AT&T is one of the biggest cable ISPs in US, MANY people will show on this forum with the same sub-IP address. 2003-10-26 8:41 am Whoops, that’s my post by –.dsl.milwwi. Cookie got deleted. 2003-10-26 8:48 am Also, GNU’s main objection to the OpenSSL license is the SSLeay license that accompanies it, which includes a large number of advertising clauses, something incompatible with the very concept of community-developed software. 2003-10-26 9:15 am It seems that my Tekram DC-390 still doesen’t run with the new version. 2003-10-26 10:44 am “Also, GNU’s main objection to the OpenSSL license is the SSLeay license that accompanies it, which includes a large number of advertising clauses, something incompatible with the very concept of community-developed software.” Oh yes, and be sure to read about the following addition by the opensource-loving company Sun! *ahem* http://www.deadly.org/article.php3?sid=20020924004335 (i’ve mailed openssl developers and debian openssl maintainer and the real part of it isn’t in openssl *yet*) 2003-10-26 10:58 am and why didn’t you include http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/patch-2.6.0-test9.bz2 anyone who’s running test8 should get this one. Saves time, bandwidth etc and/or a link to http://www.kernel.org 2003-10-26 11:04 am asdfasd wrote : “Anyone know if 802.11b cards are better supported in 2.6?” YES! Kernel 2.6 rocks! I compiled 2.6 with wireless support and after reboot, voila! my pcmcia wireless card connects automatically! You can even download free wireless network sniffers for linux from the internet. 2003-10-26 11:22 am I don’t think the report abuse thing is working, I still loathe to read the OSNews forums because of obvious trolls like Anonytroll still getting through. I have no idea how his first and subsequent posts got through, Eugenia obviously doesn’t read them. 2003-10-26 12:31 pm “Please !!! Commercial software has and always will lead the way in the software world.” Yeah, that explains TCP/IP/WWW/DNS/e-mail/ and a thousand other things you used to post your troll. M$ hasn’t produced innovation unless you count clippy and security holes. Apple does better, but most of their good ideas came courtesy of university research. 2003-10-26 12:51 pm I’m glad to hear it wasn’t you. As I was going to bed after posting, I wanted to add: “You used to be funny and put up a much better fight, but that just don’t cut it”. 2003-10-26 12:54 pm Would you please keep your trolling ON TOPIC! This news item has nothing to do with package management.. It has nothing to do with the future of OSS. It is about the OS kernel named Linux. If you have something to say about this actual kernel, say it. Otherwise, get lost. 2003-10-26 2:44 pm I’m running it now.. Compiled pretty fast (seemed *much* faster than test1 and 5, which are the other ones I tried). I still need to learn a bit about compiling 2.6 though.. Seems I can’t load modules this time.. framebuffer doest work (probably just need other ‘vga=xxx’ options than 2.4), and I still don’t understand alsa too well.. Looks really nice Very responsive, and passes the window-wiggle test without a hitch! 2003-10-26 3:40 pm These consistency things are starting to irritate me. Yes, there are lots of different toolkits available on Linux. There are lots of different toolkits on Windows too. If you don’t want to use those toolkits, then don’t use apps that use them. You can fill all your basic app needs without resorting to leaving the apps that come with GNOME or KDE. If you use GNOME, use evolution for mail, pan for newsreading, Epiphany for web, etc. For the stuff I do, which includes the basic e-mail/internet/news reading/messaging, as well as coding, I find all my basic needs can be met with just KDE apps. This is a big improvement over Windows, where I would use the following non-Windows-ish apps (KDE alternatives in parens): MS Office – Different toolkit as well as different L&F from IE. (KOffice) Media Player – Same toolkit, but very different look. (KMplayer) EphPod or iTunes – Again, nothing similar. (KDE has no mature alternative, so I end up using GTKpod). Visual Studio – Based on the .NET toolkit, so it looks different from XP apps. (KDevelop) Cygwin Shell – No Windows integration. Konsole has full KDE integration. 2003-10-26 5:16 pm To whom it may concern: I just don’t get it, the subject is “Linux 2.6.0-test9 Released” and not “GPL” or “Microsoft” or “which OS is the best” or “GUI preference (Linux has non unless you add a UI)”. Let’s have an educated review on the subject and help each other understand and appreciate Linux kernel better for what it is. If you feel windows XP..etc… is the best thing that ever happened, fine…who cares? Its not like Microsoft pays you to stay up to derail topics that are non-microsoft related, otherwise, more grease to your elbows with that paycheck from MS. Linux and open source software are here to stay and you better start embracing the fact and adjust to it. Whether it looks ugly to you, respect the fact that you are not the only human on earth so it will be a piece of art to others. People in the Third world are human too, they never requested to be born there, its just unfortunate that they were. If you are previleged to be born in a developed country, call that your luck and respect others. Linux and other open source projects are not the best programs ever, but they do make their mark where user/customer freedom of choice, security, stability and competitive pricing counts. Again, its about Linux 2.6, so let us ask, “How stable is it?”, What are its strengths and weaknesses?”, “How can we, the novice, navigate our way around?”, What is the user experience like, is it faster than 2.4?”, “what are the benchmarks when pitted against 2.4?”, “What needs to be implimented to overcome its shortfalls?”, and so on… Preaching negativity and not constructive criticism about it does a great disservice to some of us who want to give it a try. That right there is very selfish on your part. Stick to the OS you like, no one is forcing Linux down your throat. Its a free country, if I am right. If Linux or Open Source causes you that much pain, then man, its time you see your “shrink”. Keep up the good work Eugenia and Co. Have a good one. 2003-10-26 6:12 pm Microsoft, SCO and others is in battle with opensource, because opensource is a cancer to economy/technology progress! Why some of opensource programmers are working in commercial software company’s? Easy, because jobs in technology areas are only possible if there’s money to paid programmers. It is not fair that some of this programmers that work to a commercial company that is their job are contributing to opensource… Who make opensource software? Especially students in their free time or full time, because they want free software, and contribuinte to opensource, because don’t have money to pay for commercial products. Opensource kill analists and programmers, i’m not joking here. If you are a software house and try to sell a commercial program, the client say “I have the same program that can do the same thing opensource ‘free'”, or “I know a program that do the same thing and I have a friend that copy it for me for ‘free'” what the hell is this? Why we are migrating to linux instead of commercial operating systems? Don’t say linux is better, if you want an advanced operating system, choose Unix it’s a commercial version that do the same thing as linux. And microsoft have programmers working to them, because they have money to paid them, remember this, because your software company that you work for, have money because they sell programs… 2003-10-26 6:24 pm i’m not a linux fan boy. i’m an MCSE, i do contract working involving microsoft products, and understand the benefits we have recieved by having Microsoft in place. that said, i’m also LPI/RHCE certified, i do contract work building web/mail/file servers for businesses and then maintening them. i see with perfect objectivity, what the GPL is, the problems with RPM, etc. 1st the GPL is not communism, or communistic. I’ll have you know that my grandparents lived under the direct rule of communism. my grandfather would leave you with no teeth and dragging yourself to the emergency room with one arm, if he caught you making such comparisons. you don’t know what the fuck you are talking about. 2nd, your post is horribly off topic. 2003-10-26 6:38 pm You’ve already posted the exact same message (copy-paste) on another news. Don’t you have anything new to say? Victor. 2003-10-26 6:39 pm T’as rien compris, mon vieux… Open source software challenges the traditional economic model of proprietary software, that is true (although Open Source Software and proprietary software can – and do – coexist). This is a normal process. Disruptive technologies force changes in business models all the time. But it is short-sighted to believe that the only way programmers can make a living is by working for proprietary software companies. There are a lot of businesses who understand that OSS can save them a lot of money. These businesses are ready to contribute to OSS, either by giving money to OSS projects or by hiring programmers to work in-house and contribute back what they write to the projects. You are also mistaken when you say that OSS is mostly done by students. In fact, most major contributors to OSS are now employed by large IT companies (such as IBM, HP, etc.) or are employed by corporations financed by companies (such as OSDL, the Samba foundation, etc.) Faut être de son temps! 2003-10-26 6:44 pm Bah, he just keep trolling. Just ignore that little PoS, he doesn’t even deserve our attention. I’m surprised that it wasn’t moderated down, though. 2003-10-26 6:49 pm > i’m also LPI/RHCE certified, i do contract work building web/mail/file servers for businesses and then maintening them. i see with perfect objectivity, what the GPL is, the problems with RPM, etc. As someone who claims mastery (at least strong command) of working with rpms, what are the problems with RPM? I’ve had to learn how to work with .rpms, and I can safely say that there are no “issues” with rpms, with respect to what they are trying to acheive. An RHCE will understand just how powerful rpms are, and how specifically extending them beyond fixed media and using them for downloaded software has been poorly implemented by distributions, and how it could be solved. I’ve already given you too many hints to adequately assess if you’re truthful or not (that statement about “problems with RPMS” is really, really dubious). If you are telling the truth, I sincerely apologize for calling your character into question. 2003-10-26 6:52 pm Especially students in their free time or full time, because they want free software, and contribuinte to opensource, because don’t have money to pay for commercial products. Ever heard of MSDN AA Aliance ? I could get all microsoft software for free if I would like. When I see such proprietary software given for free, it reminds me to the american children, who learn to read on a PC screen that they like more this or that soda. Oh, and check how much money IBM (hardly a little group of communist students) have earned this year with Linux. Opensource kill analists and programmers, i’m not joking here. If you are a software house and try to sell a commercial program, […] if you want an advanced operating system, choose Unix it’s a commercial version that do the same thing as linux. Thanks to imply Linux is an advanced operating system 😉 Seriously, there is a word for what you say : protectionism There is better technology which allow to produce better cheaper products, but you want to prohibit it|to call to boycott because it hurts the traditional actors of the domain. So, before you cry of communisme, be aware that what you say is pure anti-liberalism. Sorry, for you, I honestly think you are a failure. That is not the way our society works. In our society, traditional actors have to evolve just like Apple did. Regards 2003-10-26 7:19 pm Very few innovations come out of the commercial sector. Most of the ones that do come from pure research divisons of companies, like Xerox PARC and Bell Labs or in conjunction with blue-sky research organizations like DARPA. Most other innovations come out of universities, and are “rediscovered” deacdes latter by the commercial market. For example, everything in the Java or C# languages have been done before, and better, in university research languages. Companies are good at introducing little evolutionary features, but real innovation (revolutionary features) come out of more pure-research oriented organizations. 2003-10-26 7:58 pm Someone said: Seriously, there is a word for what you say : protectionism No, protectionism is when a Country decides to impose special border taxes in order to make its companies more competitive in the domestic economy. (Much like the US do for about everything) and it has nothing to do with protecting an author’s rights. It amuses me to see that basically the same people who are so much in favour of Open source would be very shocked if some company decided to publish books without protecting the writer’s rights(Oh I guess you’re the kind of people who just xerox any kind of thing without any sort of consideration for the writer huh?). Why do you think companies that research on new drugs have the right to keep their secrets to them when we know it would be better to share with others such crucial information (much more crucial than software source code)? Because otherwise no one would invest. That’s one of the realities I know very few people among you will recognise (it’s easier to just label others as trolls – that’s exactly what comminists do – and I really don’t care what some grandpa would try to do to me). Someone said: better cheaper products Isn’t this some kind of contradiction in terms? Why would a nicer more confortable chair be cheaper than an older model? Why would a more performant OS be cheaper than its older version? Just out of charity? Charity doesn’t exist in the business world. I don’t care whether you like it or not: That’s a fact not an argument. but you want to prohibit it|to call to boycott because it hurts the traditional actors of the domain. Hey I’m going to cry, get me a handkerchief! Get real no one is going to prohibit your previous little toy. I’m just sharing my point of view and I haven’t been elected as president of the world so far: so get of your high horses will you. Just another thing… traditional would refer to Microsoft?? A company that is just a few years old? Who are we kidding here? anti-liberalism. What is pure anti-liberalism is to say copyright ought to be abolished. Liberal countries pride themselves on protecting those who create and their ideas not force them to “share” with others just because it’s the “right” thing to do. Sharing freely everything you have is communism whether you agree or not. Sorry, for you, I honestly think you are a failure. How old are you by the way? I mean to get that personal on a forum, you’re either really young or perhaps you should get a life. For the french guy around: J’en ai rien a faire de ce que tu penses, tous les Français sont communistes dans l’âme et ne s’en rendent meme pas compte. Ils ont été nourris au biberon avec de l’extrait de petit livre rouge de Mao. Tristesse va. 2003-10-26 9:17 pm Copy-paste doesn’t work THAT good actually on Linux. You see, there is a place for traditional companies if they are smart enough to evolve 😉 2003-10-27 3:26 am Heh…hate open source? You should probably stop using the web altogether. Sharing source code allows for much faster development and better quality too. Simply compare it to science, look how much faster science has progressed since its been more open, inter-competition is a good thing. The Wright brothers may not have made their first flight as early as they did if they didn’t have fierce competition from the likes of Samuel Langley and others, whom not only competed with the Wright’s but also shared his information and data. How technically backwards would we be if every scientist secretly hid their progress from one another and worked in dark closest? Imagine it. Not all of us open source fans are as anal as RMS, I’m not. I consider myself more like Linus, middle of the road. If open source was truely “anti-capitalist” we wouldn’t see such giants as IBM throwing their weight behind it, are you saying that IBM is secretly part of some vast communist plot to destroy commercial software (and likely themselves in the progress)? Hah! What about the fact that I can buy boxed versions of Linux distros and software, or that Red Hat is a publicly traded company? Bad comrade! Heh… Dude, if the GPL really was anti-commercial software it wouldn’t even allow sells at all, but indeed it does. You are not required, at all, to give away binaries for free – its merely a nice habit. Look at SuSE or the higher end versions of Red Hat, you gotta buy it to get the binaries. The “free” part is in relation to source code, not $$$. Too many people confuse that. Free as in freedom! 2003-10-27 3:44 am Hi, I wrote that these new Kernel become with native NTFS support. Is it true? Thanks!!! 2003-10-27 8:54 am The Linux kernel has had NTFS read support for some time. NTFS write support is now no longer marked “dangerous”, however it’s still limited to overwriting files without changing their size, and you can’t create new files. So the write support is mostly non-useful. Still, being able to read NTFS partitions is a very useful feature, one that I use every day. More info here: http://linux-ntfs.sourceforge.net 2003-10-27 4:48 pm Just bought myself a new keyboard: Sweex Turbo-media KB9801R+. It’s a RSI-friendly multimedia keyboard in black. I’m having keyboard problems. It works fine with Linux 2.4.x. But it doesn’t with 2.6.0-test8 and -test9. The kernel also gives errors: Oct 26 00:12:14 icarus kernel: atkbd.c: Unknown key released (translated set 2, code 0x165, data 0xfa, on isa0060/serio0). After i’m using it for a while (time depends, so far between 5 minutes and a few hours of active using) the keyboard begins to act weird. For example it has caps lock on even when it’s off. I then put my caps lock on to get small-sized letters but characters like / remain as ?. Sometimes it’s solved after a few minutes, sometimes it isn’t solved, sometimes the keyboard stops working. I can still reboot with GPM/X by copy/pasting the relevant characters. I also got myself a new PS/2 optical Logitech mouse. I had a lockup with this mouse after my keyboard got broken. My mouse insisted in staying at the top of my screen. It did went to the left or right but not to the bottom. When i did that, it does go a bit down, but it insisted to go to the top again. Like a magnet. I couldn’t log out, i couldn’t get to a term, and my keyboard didn’t work. I was too lazy to SSH to the box, so i resetted it the hard way. Finally E-MemWatch.epplet doesn’t seem to know how many memory i have. Instead it displays i’m using 1-3 GB full memory, switching between 1 till 3 all the time. But oh well, this is probably normal. 2003-10-27 5:09 pm I was finally able to compile the NVIDIA driver using the instructions at http://www.minion.de There are still a few problems: the framebuffer console did not work (blank during boot, garbled when I switch using Ctrl-Alt-F1), and for some reasons there were no CD-ROM, Floppy or Scanner icons on my desktop (I think it has to do with Mandrake’s dynamic desktop and/or supermount). Also, the annoyance with having to reinstall a mouse when going from 2.4.X to 2.6 is till there, but that’s quite a minor thing when you consider that you only have to do it once if you switch to 2.6 for good. Apart from those glitches, 2.6 performs remarkably well. I could not get movies or mp3s to skip even by switching desktops and moving around windows like crazy. Everything worked, although the performance difference with 2.4 isn’t striking (I must say I’m using the tmb kernels, which are pretty fast, and I have yet to try Andrew Morton’s enhancements to 2.6). It is evolutionary rather than revolutionary, but that’s still an improvement! I won’t be using it until Mandrake comes up with their own versions, but as soon as these are out, I’m switching!