Apple Computer plans to continue rapidly bringing out new versions of Mac OS X, but it won’t continue at quite the pace it’s maintained in recent years. Also, Apple Computer got hit by a double whammy this week when a security researcher publicized a pair of flaws in Mac OS X that when used together could let attackers place a malicious program on a Mac and then run the file, News.com reports.
Apple to Slow Pace of Mac OS X Tweaks
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
These things are bound to happen. Nothing is foolproof. I still feel far safer at home on my mac than I do at work on my windows machine.
I dont get it apple is getting slammed for one measly hole when windows has millions of holes all over the place and every day millions of virus exist more and more for windows, and this guy gets so uptight, please its exaggerated.
Mac osx is superior in security to windows anyday so if they find one hole big deal it gets dealt with unlike windows millions of holes.
Let’s not forget the fact that Mac OS X ships with no network services running out of the box.
Normal. The OS is maturing.
It’s likely that those two new, seriously damaging, flaws are the very reason for Apple’s slower pace in the future. Apple’s going to have to copy Microsoft and devote significant time and resources into a massive code review before the release of Tiger. It’s beginning to look like Apple’s decision to build a proprietary framework onto its Mach kernel & BSD subsystem was a serious mistake.
Completely open sourced Linux distributions have never needed to backtrack in such a manner. And OS X and Linux share similar UNIX conventions. When will companies like Microsoft, Apple, and Sun realize that they are holding onto a dying development model? Open source is the future, and I, for one, cannot wait until the day when all of mankind will have access to computers and the Internet because of the inexpensive freedom that F/OSS provides.
if it is related, they are being smarter than MS. rather than wait 15 years, they are acting now so that they can focus on a relatively safe OS and make it safer.
I doubt they are highly related, it is more likely that APple has OS X to the point it wants it and since it is now mature, they can slow down and work on maintaining the code and squashing bugs.
Well, I wouldn’t say that is accurate. What SUN is doing is the Apple does, but the model is the other way around, it has a closed source, open standards operating system (Solaris) with an opensource, open standards desktop (GNOME).
What SUN’s BIG problem is their ability to realise that people aren’t going to use their operating system if there are no applications that can run on it. Businesses run more than just an office suite, they run accounting packages, label makers, databases and heap of other stuff. Simply rolling in JDS and saying, “its now got a office suite! now use it” isn’t going to move people over.
There are already customers of SUN saying, “we can’t move to it because the applications we need aren’t available”; why aren’t SUN listening? they’ve got a desktop, now bloody well get those applications or otherwise the whole JDS idea will fall down in a screaming heap.
Anyway, regarding MacOS X and the release schedule, I’ve never really had a problem, however, what I would love to see is a subscription where one can pay AUS$100 a year and receive updates delivered to ones door as soon as a new release is made available; something like that and I would be very happy to pay for, and heck, say $80 per year if a person would rather download the new version rather than getting it delivered to the door!
Again, I would be *MORE* than happy to pay a yearly subscription like that; as long as it doesn’t get disabled once the subscription has finished, I’m all for subscriptions as it allows people to have a continuous stream of updates and upgrades rathar than what we have now.
kaiwai (IP: —.a.002.cba.iprimus.net.au)
What SUN’s BIG problem is their ability
should be
What SUN’s BIG problem is their inability
JDS is SUSE linux, not Solaris 😡
> It’s likely that those two new, seriously damaging, flaws are the very reason for Apple’s slower pace in the future.
No, not really… It’s been noticed that the development cycle for OS X releases has been getting longer and longer with each release (6 mo., 12 mo., 14 mo., …). So this announcement has been expected for a while now in the Mac community. It only makes sense, that as the OS matures, the development cycle will slow down to something less frenetic.
As for the security hole, it’s a bad one alright, dangerous and dumb. There’s really no excuse for it. Let’s hope Apple is smart and patches it ASAP.
JDS is SUSE linux, not Solaris 😡
yes, I know that, but the fact is, SUN has a terrible reputation for making a royal balls-up of anything they touch; just look at the list of companies they’ve bought in the past and unable to integrate the acquasitions product line into their own? unable to deliver a complete solution that actually competes, dollar for dollar, feature for feature with Microsoft.
Here is a page that actually describes the flaws:
http://www.insecure.ws/article.php?story=2004051612423136
AFAIK, it only affects Safari. So if you use Safari, turn off ‘Open “safe” files after downloading’ and use a program like MoreInternet PrefPane( http://www.monkeyfood.com ) to change the help protocol’s helper to something different like Finder. Why webpages would need to open up a help page I may never know, but doing these two things should keep you fairly safe from this “double whammy.” I hope this helps.
” but the fact is, SUN has a terrible reputation for making a royal balls-up of anything they touch”
Wow. Kawaii, did you dis Sun?? I can’t believe it…did they manage to get on your S-list?
” but the fact is, SUN has a terrible reputation for making a royal balls-up of anything they touch”
Wow. Kawaii, did you dis Sun?? I can’t believe it…did they manage to get on your S-list?
Its not an opinion, its pretty much a fact. Anything they’ve bought turns to sh*t overnight. Be it software or hardware orientated, infact the only two that hasn’t fallen to pieces are the recent acquisitions, but then again, both of them were so new and immature, nothing *could* go wrong.
The fact is, they’re not focused on the bigger picture. Would I make a better CEO, hell yes, infact, anyone who has their brain out of the clouds and listening to customers would make a better CEO. Anyone who finds it laughable that a company can push products that cost 3x the amount perform WORSE than the competition, and then expects to be taken seriously.
“I dont get it apple is getting slammed for one measly hole ”
It might be because Apple chose to ignore 2 major vulnerabilities that were reported in FEBRUARY! Apple deserves to get “slammed” as severely as M$ does.
It is not a flaw in Safari, but rather flaws in two system URI handlers, one for Help and one for Disk. Safari is vulnerable, and so is Internet Explorer for the Mac. It may well be that other browsers are likewise vulnerable. The fix for Safari does not work very well. A better workaround involves changing the help system’s “helper.” Of course, the result may be a crippled help system.
Its not an opinion, its pretty much a fact. Anything they’ve bought turns to sh*t overnight. Be it software or hardware orientated, infact the only two that hasn’t fallen to pieces are the recent acquisitions, but then again, both of them were so new and immature, nothing *could* go wrong.
Examples of these would be?
Thier Cray aquistion payed huge dividend in their enterprise class systems. Star Office/Open Office is doing well, so Is NetBeans. Your statement is in no way fact.
Anyone who finds it laughable that a company can push products that cost 3x the amount perform WORSE than the competition, and then expects to be taken seriously.
If customers are still buying it then what is the problem.
Apple Computer plans to continue rapidly bringing out new versions of Mac OS X, but it won’t continue at quite the pace it’s maintained in recent years.
just giving Redmond a chance to catch up a little. *grin*
easy on the trigger-fingers, flamers. just kidding.
sorta.
Peter, you are right. It does affect other browsers as well, IE won’t automatically mount the image though. I know that doesn’t fix the problem, but it makes it a little more difficult for the attack to work. Anyway, the software I mentioned allows you to change the help URI handler. I haven’t found any ill side effects yet. All normal help functions seem to work, and it’s at least a temporary fix. Hopefully the bad press will light a fire under Apple. They really should have fixed this back in February.
I don’t think the automatic mounting of disk images is a security flaw – at least if Apple doesn’t implement some kind of autostart functionality.
But the second problem, that the help viewer will execute any script on the users computer, is a very serious problem. How can you be so stupid and allow URLs from a browser to directly start applications?
This has to be fixed immediately.
“Its not an opinion, its pretty much a fact. Anything they’ve bought turns to sh*t overnight. Be it software or hardware orientated, infact the only two that hasn’t fallen to pieces are the recent acquisitions, but then again, both of them were so new and immature, nothing *could* go wrong. ”
Examples of these would be?
Thier Cray aquistion payed huge dividend in their enterprise class systems. Star Office/Open Office is doing well, so Is NetBeans. Your statement is in no way fact.
StarOffice was always going to be opensourced, and same goes for Netbeans. As for theose two projects, what have they done for their bottom line? absolutely f*cking nothing. They might as well pissed into the wind for all the effectiveness it has done.
“Anyone who finds it laughable that a company can push products that cost 3x the amount perform WORSE than the competition, and then expects to be taken seriously. ”
If customers are still buying it then what is the problem.
Each quarter less and less and less servers by SUN are being shipped. Not dollars, because they can be affected by the fact that SUN reduces prices, but I mean in terms of raw shipments each quarter. That is what you should be looking at. The introduction of the SPARC IV? done absolutenly ZIP to their bottom line, didn’t even add a cent to it.
They would be alot better off canning the $500million they waste on developing the UltraSPARC and create a join R&D facility with Fujitsu and using the SPARC64 instead, which out performs SUN UltraSPARCS.
I don’t like software socialism. This is what F/OSS sofware is red commies.
<sarcasm> Sure, it is more American to pay Microsoft or Apple for trivial features and bug fixes. Better yet, why pay when you can steal it out right. </sarcasm>
In all seriousness, I think OSX has achived its primary goal of migrating the Macintosh platform to a modern OS. Now it is stuck trying to figure out what’s next. Where does OSX go from here?
RE:Causation
By SpookyET (IP: —.cpe.ga.charter.com) – Posted on 2004-05-19 03:34:51
“I don’t like software socialism. This is what F/OSS sofware is red commies.”
Because sharing is wicked and evil, and everything outa be charged? No more public parks! Fee at the gate! Theres nothing wrong with socialism, hell alot of the services you take advantage of only exist because of socialist struggles in the US and around the world – things like the 8 hour work day, child labor laws, unemployment insurance, social security, and much more. The “Red Scare” lives on, the very word socialism is akin to evil in the US to this day. Universal Healthcare is given the “uglier” name of “Socialized Medicine” in the US to draw support away from it. Ugh… Look, for those with Capitalist feelings ever notice that companies like Novel/SuSE and Red Hat are publically traded commercial entities? Sharing of source code is a good thing, and commercially viable.
It’s beginning to look like Apple’s decision to build a proprietary framework onto its Mach kernel & BSD subsystem was a serious mistake.
Because of the newly found two flaws? hell. Don’t you know that it doesn’t make sense at all? Have you looked up the SecurityFocus’s list? There’re tons of flaws in linux kernel. Not all software is perfect. Bear that in mind. Mac OS X is making the progress. Don’t be a zealot.
“In all seriousness, I think OSX has achived its primary goal of migrating the Macintosh platform to a modern OS. Now it is stuck trying to figure out what’s next. Where does OSX go from here?”
The OS appears to be quite good, so it only needs to consolidate.
What the Mac needs now is more applications and hardware that is clearly superior to the x86 boxes rather than “just about equal”.
This bug was pretty stupid. A couple of other bugs are present in other URI handlers (which Apple has been notified about, advisory will be released later on their liking, as usual, unless someone discovers it publicly before their permission)
Rules are:
– don’t extend standards with private extensions (learn that from M$)
– review all possibles inputs for every program (that was an input validation error, in the end. Help viewer shouldn’t allow any external call beside normal URL’s, and the programmers should be briefed more often about theses issues)
– don’t take the security problem as lightely as Apple does. (the bug reporting system had this bug since long, and no one cared as it got no publicity. I can tell you that in the few last days, this bug has been severly taken care of.)
—
To stay on the topic, I highly doubt that theses vulnerabilities are related to their will to slow down MacOSX releases. They just can’t keep up this way, they have many new Applications to support now, and the OS is mature. They’ve to enhance it of course, but it’s gonna take longer and will need more research work.
A Firewall blocks connections on unauthorised TCP ports.
These Exploits both use Port 80, which is required for Web Browsing. A Firewall will not stop this exploit.
The exploit works as follows:
Using the disk:// URI, the Exploit mounts a Disk Image (.DMG) containing a script which contains the Payload. It can be any type of script; it is not restricted to AppleScript.
Using the help: URI, the Exploit then runs the script using the Help Viewer runscript command. It needs a complete path to the Script.
The simplest workaround so far is to use MoreInternet
http://www.monkeyfood.coom/software/moreinternet/
to redirect the help: URI to use a harmless program, like Chess, or TextEdit.
IANAP, but if someone wrote an alternative program, which accepted help: URIs, and presented the User with a Dialog Box, asking if they want to launch the Help Viewer, it would be a more elegant Workaround, until Apple provide a Decent Solution.
I posted this in the Apple Discussion Forums. I believe it to be a Realistic Overview of the Problem, that Non-Geeks could understand.
I personally am very disappointed in Apple that this Security Hole is so simple and that there is no solution to date. It doesn’t require any special programming skills and can do major damage to personal files. Meanwhile, obscure Security Holes, which require specific knowledge of the system, and pro-active Attempts from the Cracker are patched immediately. This only requires the Cracker to write Scripts and html and post it on a website, Apple have been sitting on this for 2½ months! It will affect any MacOS X User using any Web Browser (except lynx).
We should consider too that Apple must, at this point, be considering what time line would be best to move OS X from a 32 bit OS to a 64 bit OS now that they have the hardware to go that direction.
The G5s are amazing, and they may well find themselves needing to focus attention on switching over to take full advantage of their hardware.
Security bugs are going to be found in every piece of software, believe it or not these programmer are human and mistakes or oversights will happen, so let us be grateful that Apple, at least, is willing to slow things down a bit and perhaps look at the code they have and find and fix any problems that may exist before moving forward.
64 bit OS X will mark the end of support for the G4 and G3 processors too, and I can’t wait to see the whining and crying that will come out of that decision.
Hector
and stop milking your customers for all they are worth
Apple in late 2003 shipped os x 10.3 Panther about 3 years after its first release of os x. Panther is their first non-beta os in years.
found this telling beta test information:
”
09-13-00 Mac OS X Beta ships on cd only—cost of $29…no free download.
03-24-01 OS X Ships (doesn’t ship on new macs until July)—cost of $129
09-25-01 Mac OS X 10.1 released—cost free, but $20 to have Apple ship it (no download available to upgrade) and some Apple retailers had limited stock and gave the cds away free
End of 2001 10.1.2 ships—cost free
08-24-02 Mac OS X v10.2 (Jaguar) available—Cost of $129
02-14-03 Mac OS X 10.2.4 released—free
10-24-03 Mac OS X 10.3 ships—cost of $129 (only $20 for Mac users that have bought brand new G5 machines.)
Total for OS X if always upgrading to latest and greatest version:
Including beta in 37 months: $436
No beta, just retail in 31 months since March 2001: $407
(as an aside, since you have to have a Mac to install the Mac OS, buying the OS from Apple is always in essence an upgrade and not a full version being installed on a machine with no operating system as you can do on the PC side.)
Prices listed above are full retail and are controlled by Apple. Retailers are not allowed to sell but at a tiny percent less than the above prices or they lose the right to sell Apple products. Retailers do at times offer some other deals like a free t-shirt or other such goodies to sweeten the offer (Apple allows this).
I assume you can expect another update like 10.4 next year for $129.”
Apple will likely collect another toll of $129 this year for Tiger.
Do you feel good paying for Apple’s prolonged beta that came on top of several years of slow development after they paid $400 million for Next?
Hopefully security updates remain free and still come regularly.
What their customers need is for them to slow down on the paid upgrades that barely keep them afloat.
“buying the OS from Apple is always in essence an upgrade and not a full version being installed on a machine with no operating system as you can do on the PC side”
you really have no idea what your talking about do you? os x upgrades offer 3 install options. first one is archive and install, which backsup your settings and user folder as well as leaving an intact copy of the old system folder on the disk. then you can just do the straight upgrade that doesn’t back up first (don’t know why anyone would use this one), you can also erase, zero and format the disk if you want for your third install option. that comment you made was fud fud fud.
for many oses you can buy either:
–an upgrade that goes on a computer with a previous os
–a full version that goes on a computer that was bought or built with no os installed
with macs you always are installing on a computer with an os in place.
so again whenever you buy a stand alone copy of the mac os, it is an upgrade.
you cannot buy or build a mac with no os installed.
we are quite familiar with the methods of installing software. thanks for the attempted lesson.
if he had written that same crap against linux, he would have been moderated down so quickly. i sometimes wonder about the moderators here…
@todu
just because something’s open source, doesn’t mean there aren’t gonna be problems with it. absolutely every problem can’t be foreseen when developing software, especially when developing something as huge as a complete operating system (desktop environment, network services etc. etc…).
you sir, are an oss zealot.
“Apple in late 2003 shipped os x 10.3 Panther about 3 years after its first release of os x. Panther is their first non-beta os in years.”
10.1 was non-beta worthy. Didn’t crash and ran all the apps.
“End of 2001 10.1.2 ships—cost free…02-14-03 Mac OS X 10.2.4 released—free”
Why did you include those? There have many over a dozen of those free ones, not just the two.
“Prices listed above are full retail and are controlled by Apple. Retailers are not allowed to sell but at a tiny percent less than the above prices or they lose the right to sell Apple products. Retailers do at times offer some other deals like a free t-shirt or other such goodies to sweeten the offer (Apple allows this).”
That price control is for hardware. Most places sell OS X for under $90 for the first few months after it comes out.
“Do you feel good paying for Apple’s prolonged beta that came on top of several years of slow development after they paid $400 million for Next?”
Stop trolling.
“Hopefully security updates remain free and still come regularly.”
Lol. Of course they will.
“What their customers need is for them to slow down on the paid upgrades that barely keep them afloat.”
You think the money they get from OS sales keeps them afloat? Get real.
“for many oses you can buy either:
–an upgrade that goes on a computer with a previous os”
Also can do that with OS X. It’s also $40 to get an upgrade version, they just don’t advertise them…if you had any real experience with OS X other than reading and twisting press releases, you’d know.
“–a full version that goes on a computer that was bought or built with no os installed”
So have the people at the store erase the OS. Or buy it from someone like Terra Soft who will ship it with Linux, no OS, or slit OS X/Linux.
“with macs you always are installing on a computer with an os in place.”
Not if you buy it without an OS.
“so again whenever you buy a stand alone copy of the mac os, it is an upgrade.”
No, there is an upgrade version and a full version. Again, you don’t have experience with Macs.
“you cannot buy or build a mac with no os installed.”
I already told you where to get one.
In fact…from there website…
“Terra Soft, an Apple Authorized OEM VAR (Value Added Reseller) has been granted a unique license to install Yellow Dog Linux on Apple computers and maintain full Apple hardware warranty for home, commercial, education, and government customers. “
Thanks for writing my thoughts. 🙂 I’ve been using OSX since 10.0 — and yes, that was beta software (free with my machine) but 10.1 was quite useable. All the upgrades since then have been worth it.
Why did you include those? There have many over a dozen of those free ones, not just the two.
Possibly: He hasn’t followed all the free upgrades. More likely: By throwing a bone or two, he can make himself look like an honest bloke. But if he documented every free upgrade/update by Apple, that might make his argument look like the specious drivel it is.
I enjoy using OSX, as does an increasing number of academics. Another colleague was showing off his new PowerBook just last week — and this is a guy who runs a Linux server at home, and used to make fun of me for paying money to use a proprietary system 🙂
so again whenever you buy a stand alone copy of the mac os, it is an upgrade.
you cannot buy or build a mac with no os installed.
Why would you want to? Just so that you can feel all L33T and install and OS that would have come with it?!!!
When you buy a full version of MacOS X you can always plug and new disk and install over it.
If you buy the upgrade version you have to have an OS already present. I got the Upgrade to Panther for $20.
OS distribution works the same in the Mac world as it does the windows.
Funny how you were trolling before on the tiger annoucment article that with macs you have to buy and OS every year. Now that apple has said they are going to slow down the pace, you do a 180 and calim that this is a bad thing.
Troll away.
This is OFFTOPIC and will be my last post on this thread.
tarOffice was always going to be opensourced, and same goes for Netbeans. As for theose two projects, what have they done for their bottom line? absolutely f*cking nothing. They might as well pissed into the wind for all the effectiveness it has done.
StarOffice license do sell and make money for Sun. NetBeans is the basis for thier Java Studio product. How can you be sure that StarOffice was always going to be open sourced? Do you have insider information?
Each quarter less and less and less servers by SUN are being shipped. Not dollars, because they can be affected by the fact that SUN reduces prices, but I mean in terms of raw shipments each quarter. That is what you should be looking at. The introduction of the SPARC IV? done absolutenly ZIP to their bottom line, didn’t even add a cent to it.
Introducing a product does not mean that it will be in the sales channel. You will have to wait for this quarter to see how well the USIV based systems do in the market.
Where do you get the raw shipments quarter over quarter? Can you please give me a link I would like to see that data.
Having had 2 Maxtor hard drives fail on me in 9 months, I can assure everybody that:
(a) The disks that ship with your mac are full install disks, not “recovery” disks.
(b) The disks you buy at the store are full install disks, not “upgrade” disks.
(c) I am never, ever, putting another Maxtor hard drive in any machine I own.
Having had 2 Maxtor hard drives fail on me in 9 months, I can assure everybody
Before someone starts trolling that the Mac had anything to do with the Maxtor disks failing. I have had the same experience with Maxtor disk on my home built Ahtlon PC, two disk failures in 6 months.
“found this telling beta test information:
”
09-13-00 Mac OS X Beta ships on cd only—cost of $29…no free download.
03-24-01 OS X Ships (doesn’t ship on new macs until July)—cost of $129 ”
10.0 was $100 if you had the public beta.
I’ve paid the retain price for both Jaguar and Panther when they came out and I don’t regret it ONE DAY. I look at like this: I’m a software developer, Apple supplies XCode and Interface Builder FREE with any OS purchase (as well as full installs of the latest GCC). Compare this with MSVC++, those two apps alone are worthy the whole upgrade (in my highly subjective opinion).
** The fact that I get better and better performance out of the OS, the iApps, integrated MailClient with AddressBook that syncs to my bluetooth cell is just awesome.
** The fact that I can plug in my digital camera straight-out-of-the-box without installing ANY drivers and have iPhoto automagically pop up and recognize and import my shots is priceless.
** Same with my digital camcorder, never needed a driver their either.
** The network utility that gives me a GUI ping, NSLookup, Whois, PortScan, and TraceRoute is also something I couldn’t live without.
** A global CoreAudio and CoreMIDI system that operates at the kernel level and allows for some of the highest priorities within the kernel is a GodSend for my Audio apps (Cubase SX, ProTools). OS X even gives you (natively) a way to route MIDI events through the OS to another app, in short, an IPC for MIDI apps.
** The ability to let the OS install X11 for you when you are installing (or upgrading) the OS.
** How did I ever live without COLUMN VIEW in the finder!
I can go on and on and on, but I’ve already overstayed my welcome on this off-topic rant. My point is that: sure, I can get all these things on other OS’es but it comes at the cost of having to gather and install all the apps that OS X has given to me out-of-the-box, and with lickable widgets to boot. So to me, I’ll gladly pay the “subscription” $129 a year for what I feel is money well spent. I’d sooner spend my time coding or writing music than debugging a driver conflict. YMMV.
“** A global CoreAudio and CoreMIDI system that operates at the kernel level and allows for some of the highest priorities within the kernel is a GodSend for my Audio apps (Cubase SX, ProTools). OS X even gives you (natively) a way to route MIDI events through the OS to another app, in short, an IPC for MIDI apps.”
That one is a huge plus. CoreAudio is unmatched on any platform, and allows OS X and it’s apps to do some amazing things with ease.
It might be because Apple chose to ignore 2 major vulnerabilities that were reported in FEBRUARY! Apple deserves to get “slammed” as severely as M$ does.
And Linux deserves to get slammed more than both since the Linux community has such high and mighty attitudes.
Every OS has holes every now and then. The simple truth is that you enjoy slamming anything none-FOSS. Your bias is obvious: “as M$”
Before someone starts trolling that the Mac had anything to do with the Maxtor disks failing. I have had the same experience with Maxtor disk on my home built Ahtlon PC, two disk failures in 6 months.
Dude thats just some bad luck. Sorry.
I’ve had one maxtor and one western digital fail in 15 years of computing. Never lost a seagate.
Thanks, Raptor for pre-empting any trollings about MacOS or Apple hardware causing drive failure.
The most recent 2 years of Maxtor drives are shoddy, IMHO.
Where I work, 20+ of our less than a year old computers have had sudden, catastrophic drive failures.
Maxtors.
Our old workstations (with Western Digitals) had about 10 failures over the course of 4 years.
“Completely open sourced Linux distributions have never needed to backtrack in such a manner. And OS X and Linux share similar UNIX conventions. When will companies like Microsoft, Apple, and Sun realize that they are holding onto a dying development model? Open source is the future, and I, for one, cannot wait until the day when all of mankind will have access to computers and the Internet because of the inexpensive freedom that F/OSS provides.”
Here at Proprietary Inc, we believe that mankind should live forever in darkness and bondage. We reject the idea mankind should have access to computers, software, or the internet, and therefore we are doing our best to make it impossible for such access to be had.
Indeed
My maxtor 80gb IDE drive died in my AMD XP box a few months ago. It really bites to lose data, I guess I should haved backed up more often. Although I shortly got an eMac afterwards, so in the end it all worked out.
Do you feel good paying for Apple’s prolonged beta that came on top of several years of slow development after they paid $400 million for Next?
Yes, I do. I have thoroughly enjoyed my OS X experience since 10.2, now with 10.3, and will for sure pay for the 10.4 version shortly after it is released.
hard drive makers moved to standard 1 year warranties from standard 3 year warranties on consumer grade hard drives about 18 or 24 months ago if I remember correctly.
downward price pressure on hard drives has been brutal in recent years and they all seem to have decided to cut costs by lowering warranty support and by also lowering standards for manufacture.
numerous reports online show all makers having a higher incidence of failures recently.
modern hard drives in MOST “brand name” computers are absolute JUNK. I throw away at least a few MAXTOR drives every week, usually between 2 an 4 years old too.. Even some of the cheaper WDs and others are not near the quaility they used to be. gotto spend $$$ to get good parts.
“after they paid $400 million for Next?”
They paid $400 million for Next, but only offered $145 million for BeOS?
“They paid $400 million for Next, but only offered $145 million for BeOS?”
Be did have Steve Jobs, and if you think $400 million is a lot, look at what Jobs got for accepting a permanent CEO position.
“Be did have Steve Jobs, and if you think $400 million is a lot, look at what Jobs got for accepting a permanent CEO position.”
$400 might well have been reasonable, I just want to know why Next was worth over twice as much as BeOS in Apple’s eyes?
It wasn’t. What was worth more was getting Steve Jobs along with NeXT OS. And while I do think OS X would be even better if it was built upon BeOS instead of BSD in many aspects, I don’t know if Apple would have made the comeback it has without Steve Jobs.
“Be did have Steve Jobs”
Oops. Meant to say Be didn’t have Steve Jobs, but I’m sure many of you picked up on that one.
” I don’t know if Apple would have made the comeback it has without Steve Jobs”
you mean like like their sales are half what they were just before Jobs returned?
you mean like their annual market share has slipped from 5% in 1997 to 1.8% today?
you mean like it took jobs three years to get X out the door?
you mean like when it was released it was still beta software?
you mean like its education market share dropping from 40% to 15% in the USA?
or do you mean the over $700 million dollars in compensation Jobs got for “coming” back to Apple?
if that is a comeback, i would hate to see what failure is.
Boring.
.
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The subject about development being slowed is a natural progression.
Apples R n D budget is will continue to develop and refine.
No worries.
“you mean like like their sales are half what they were just before Jobs returned?”
How the hell do you figure that one?
“you mean like their annual market share has slipped from 5% in 1997 to 1.8% today?”
Yet they ship more computers now than they did then. The market grew faster than they did. That tends to happen when you focus on something other than marketshare.
“you mean like it took jobs three years to get X out the door?”
He also shipped OS 8 and OS 9, all while developing 2 OS’s, a slew of new apps, redefined market after market, reorganized the whole company, redifined hardware aesthetics, and managed Pixar.
“you mean like when it was released it was still beta software?”
And while it was OS 9 was the default OS.
“you mean like its education market share dropping from 40% to 15% in the USA?”
When you stop persueing a market, others take it.
“or do you mean the over $700 million dollars in compensation Jobs got for “coming” back to Apple?”
Don’t forget the jet. Also don’t forget that he got them out of a $1 billion dept. And don’t forget the new operating systems, software, hardware, partnerships, so on and so on.
“if that is a comeback, i would hate to see what failure is.”
Just look at all the companies that went under or into deep debt during the recession. Then notice Apple and Dell are the only two not in that list.
Got anymore half-truths to spread?
it is my opinion (uninformed or not)..
that the NeXT purchase got a proven OS (it had been around for years and spawned some very important apps), got steve, got avie, and numerous others..
then apple hired the best part of Be, the filesystem.. i am looking forward to what comes of that, hopefully in july with the WWDC preview.
Grammar Cop, if you know something about what Avie has done, then your opinion is probably well informed.
And I hope we will see something come from the former Be guys at WWDC.
“That tends to happen when you focus on something other than marketshare.”
Feb 2003 Fred Anderson says:
“Mr. Anderson said a “good intermediate” goal would be to reach 5 percent market share from 3 percent today”
http://www.macnn.com/news/18603&startNumber=10
this year now that their marketshare has been cut in half nearly, they change their song and dance routine to be “we dont care about market share”
kinda like the behavior of 4th graders– they want it til they cant have it, then they dont want it anymore.
so there!
They have never said they didn’t want marketshare, only that they don’t focus on it. A goal and a priority are different. Again with your half-truths.
you mean like like their sales are half what they were just before Jobs returned?
Hmmm … this is a stupid statement. Jobs brought apple back to profitability after he joined in 1997.
” The Apple Store was a runaway success, and within a week was the third-largest eCommerce site on the web. At MacWorld San Francisco in January, Jobs announced that Apple had, for the first time in more than a year, had a profitable First Quarter–to the tune of $44 Million. This far eclipsed analysts’ projections, and sent Apple’s stock back into the 20s. In April 1998, Jobs announced another profitable quarter ($57 Million), which came as a big surprise to nearly everyone. Jobs kept momentum moving, and in early May announced a new PowerBook G3, an Educational Apple Store, and an entirely new Mac design–the iMac.
In July 1998, Jobs announced that Apple had profited for the 3rd consecutive quarter–to the tune of $101 million. This helped to push Apple’s stock to several 52-week highs in just a few days. The iMac was the best-selling computer in the nation for most of the fall, and it drove Apple sales well beyond most predictions. In the fall, Jobs announced another profitable quarter, making a full year of profitability. In January 1999, Jobs announced a 5th consecutive profitable quarter, with year-over-year growth, and a sleek new PowerMac G3.
In July 1999, Steve Jobs filled the final quadrant in the “Apple Product Matrix”–The consumer portable–when he introduced the iBook. Based on the same principles that had made iMac such a hot sell a year earlier, the iBook brought style to the low-end portable market. Several months later, Jobs announced the PowerMac G4, a significant new professional desktop machine. Apple’s stock had risen all summer, and by mid-September was trading at an all-time high, in the high 70s. ”
http://apple-history.com/frames/body.php?page=history§ion=h7
you mean like their annual market share has slipped from 5% in 1997 to 1.8% today?
Let’s see… Could it be that the whole PC market mushroomed since 1997, 7 years!!!!!
you mean like it took jobs three years to get X out the door?
Another stupid comment.
Microsoft is taking 4-5 years to release longhorn (The Avalon team was formed in 2001, scheduled to release in 2006). You mean like Microsoft took 2 years to get windows 2000 out ( a relatively less complicated update to NT than MacOS X was to MacOS 9). Or how the linux developers took 2 years to get linux 2.6 out, only a kernel.
OS development is a complex process and effort. MacOS X was a major change for Apple, three years is an amazing timeline for such a major change.
you mean like when it was released it was still beta software?
As I said above MacOS X was very ambitious, even more ambitious than longhorn is to windows today (the kernel isn’t completely new like it was with MacOS X). It is amazing how much apple achieved in just 3 years.
you know why people don’t like Lawyers and politicians?
because they argue like you; half truths, manipulations, technicalities and lies.
Is for Raptor. Jobs the magician has done what for Apple’s stock over the last few years?
for three years it has gone between $12 and $25, just one third of its value from several years back.
Only fools use stock price as a sign of a companies well being. Let’s see microsofts share has been in the $25-$30 for 3 years, half of its peak.
Here is the microsoft stock trend for the past 5 years
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=5y&s=MSFT&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=
Here is and Apple vs Microsoft stock price trend for the past 5 years.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=5y&s=MSFT&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=aapl
Are you saying that because MSFT hasn’t reached its peak of $60 in the past 4 years and has been hoovering around $28-$30 recently, Microsoft is in financial trouble???
“Only fools use stock price as a sign of a companies well being”
considering that the whole developed world disagrees with you, id have to guess you are the fool.
first and foremost though, the individual stock holder cares deeply about stock valuations.
your comment is too absurd to believe: id love to hear an apple senior manager or jobs come out on stage and say “Only fools use stock price as a sign of a companies well being.”, we should be judged as a great company because we make shiny icons and we have the best plastic in the computer industry. who cares if we can barely break even.
“do you wear purple or what? can we kiss your ring?
“A goal and a priority are different” has got to be one of the dumbest things i have ever read here on osnews.
get a grip.”
They are very different. A goal would be something to achieve, and a priority would be something to aggressively go after. And when a decision must be made that can positively effect one and negatively the other, the priority gets top billing.
“for three years it has gone between $12 and $25, just one third of its value from several years back.”
No stock stays that high for long.
“Now the billion dollar man that has jets bought for him and is given millions of shares of stock might not mind that the stock is trading substantially below its high of $75, but I can assure you most stock holders are fed up.”
First off, it’s jet, not jets. Secondly, most stock holders are not fed up, especially since it’s been on the rise lately. Again, no stock constantly trades at its highest point.
“One hit with the original iMac and now an even less important hit with a less profitable iPod means Apple continues its steady decline. Jobs is a stopgap at best.”
And you were telling me to get a grip?
“…none of it keeps apple from shrinking in total sales, profit, and marketshare. take the billion dollars in compensation Jobs has taken and put it to use porting the software to a platform that works.”
Umm, where have you been getting your news? Paul Thurrott? Sales have been going up, profit…they are out of a giant debt and have tons in the bank, and still manage constant profitable quarters, and marketshare, again, the rest of the industry grew faster…that doesn’t mean Apple hasn’t grown. As for a platform that works, what would you suggests that works better than OS X?
“no, i didnt know that two whole classes of people are across the board not liked.”
Lawyers and politicians are usually disliked. They both take more of your money than they deserve. Same reason the IRS is disliked.
“are you into hate or something?”
The word was ‘dislike’, not ‘hate’. Stop twisting things.
“why not go ahead and convert your type of thinking to:
“you know why people don’t like Muslims and Arabs?””
Disliking someone based on creed and disliking them based on occupation are very different. Religion doesn’t effect those around you, while your job does. Disliking violent religious extremists whose religion effects others is more reasonable. Once again, stop twisting things.
“considering that the whole developed world disagrees with you, id have to guess you are the fool.”
It’s very well known that a companies health has little to do with stock price. Stocks go up and down based on speculation and rumor more than anything.
“first and foremost though, the individual stock holder cares deeply about stock valuations.”
Yes, but that has nothing to do with the companies health.
“your comment is too absurd to believe: id love to hear an apple senior manager or jobs come out on stage and say “Only fools use stock price as a sign of a companies well being.”, we should be judged as a great company because we make shiny icons and we have the best plastic in the computer industry. who cares if we can barely break even.”
They’d say what they always say, that they are a great company because they make great products. Amazing hardare, and the best software in the world. And then they go on to talk about how much money they have been making while all other hardware companies except Dell have been going out of business or going in debt during the recession.
As a side note, you really sound like you get all your Mac news from Paul Thurrott, and I also wonder why you pay so much attention to something you don’t like. That’s usually a sign of envy.
none of it keeps apple from shrinking in total sales, profit, and marketshare. take the billion dollars in compensation Jobs has taken and put it to use porting the software to a platform that works.
There you let your ignorance show again.
Apple has been profitable for two years now and has an increase in profits 02-03. Apples revenue has increased year-on-year for two years.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=AAPL&annual
Let’s see apple has been posting profits quarter over quarter for the last 4 quarters. December is a strong quarter for apple notice the increase in revenue. Notice the gross profits have increased year-on-year.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=AAPL
From data Apples revenue and profits are increasing year quarter on quarter, unlike your bogus claims.
I would never have considered buying an apple machine a few years ago. I now bought an Apple PowerBook, It is the best personal computer I have ever owned. Steve Jobs must be doing something right.
“And then they go on to talk about how much money they have been making while all other hardware companies except Dell have been going out of business or going in debt during the recession”
if i say it enough i will believe it.
if i say it enough i will believe it.
because your small world is limited to thinking of just two computer companies doesnt mean there aren’t many more that have had consistent profits in recent yrs.
why dont you look up Acer for instance….
http://www.hoovers.com/acer/–ID__42451–/free-co-fin-factsheet.xht…
all profits
2000 205 million
2001 29.5 million
2002 247.3 million
2003 214.4 million
you say that same damn thing everyday and you remain as wrong as ever.
considering that the whole developed world disagrees with you, id have to guess you are the fool.
What does the developed world have to do with it?
May be somebody didn’t send you the memo. There was this thing called the “Internet Bubble” when companies had ridiculous stock valuations and gulibble stock holders bought into the dream and lost all thier life savings.
If you think the stock market is based on fair valuations of thier companies well being, I have bad news for you about SantaClaus and the ToothFairy.
your comment is too absurd to believe: id love to hear an apple senior manager or jobs come out on stage and say “Only fools use stock price as a sign of a companies well being.”, we should be judged as a great company because we make shiny icons and we have the best plastic in the computer industry. who cares if we can barely break even.
May be you should go back and read what “The Internet Bubble” was. Yes fools lost a lot of money believing in stock prices as a reflection of companies financial well being.
Have you heard of Enron and Worldcom?
http://www.blonnet.com/businessline/ew/2001/11/28/stories/0428d20b….
“”The bottom line to our analysis is very simple. With very few exceptions, every one of the 133 public Internet companies (in the US) is over-valued. Our advice to Internet investors is equally simple: If you hold any of these stocks, it is time to sell. Yes folks, if the Internet gala hasn’t ended by the time this book hits the streets, it will probably end soon thereafter. So it’s time to get out.”
The unambiguity of their recommendation notwithstanding, there weren’t any takers. By the time The Internet Bubble hit the book stalls in November the same year, the market capitalisation of the Amazons and Yahoos continued to climb, literally by billions, and Internet IPOs were continuing without any noticeable loss of traction. Till April 14, 2000, when these Internet companies were hit by a 50 to 70 per cent cut in price.
……
What went wrong? Well, various things, according to the authors of IB2. Momentum investing, for instance. They point out that hot bull markets are full of momentum investing which is just another way of saying ”buy high and sell higher.”
Ultimately, momentum investors are looking for the greater fool who will pay more for the stock than they did. It’s really a form of gambling.
“
“you say that same damn thing everyday and you remain as wrong as ever.”
Go look again. Acer has debt. Making a profit isn’t the same as being debt-free. And that is something shareholders also care about. According to the same site you linked to, their long term debt is slowing getting better, while both their short term debt and liabilities are getting worse.
“StarOffice was always going to be opensourced, and same goes for Netbeans. As for theose two projects, what have they done for their bottom line? absolutely f*cking nothing. They might as well pissed into the wind for all the effectiveness it has done.”
StarOffice license do sell and make money for Sun. NetBeans is the basis for thier Java Studio product. How can you be sure that StarOffice was always going to be open sourced? Do you have insider information?
When they purchased it many moons ago for $50million, that was their intention. Get the basic guts of 6.0 working, throw it out to the “community” and let the “community” help work on it.
I’m not dismissing that OpenOffice.org is a great piece of software along with the work they’ve done with the next version of StarOffice, but lets cut the chase, its all very good and well shipping office suites, however, if there isn’t that third party software vendor network there, the underlying operating system is as useless as pockets on a singlet; not matter *HOW GOOD* the operating system is, if the customers can’t run their “mission critical applications” on the desktop, the alternative offered by SUN will be completely useless.
“Each quarter less and less and less servers by SUN are being shipped. Not dollars, because they can be affected by the fact that SUN reduces prices, but I mean in terms of raw shipments each quarter. That is what you should be looking at. The introduction of the SPARC IV? done absolutenly ZIP to their bottom line, didn’t even add a cent to it.”
Introducing a product does not mean that it will be in the sales channel. You will have to wait for this quarter to see how well the USIV based systems do in the market.
USIV still performs worse than an Opteron. Please tell me, why on gods green earth would a person go and purchase a dual USIV server when an dual Opteron could whipe the foor with it?
Where do you get the raw shipments quarter over quarter? Can you please give me a link I would like to see that data.
Heaps of companys, IDC for example has a quarterly break down on the number of server shipments by the major server producers, their market share, whether they’ve increased their market share, whether their volume has increased over the last quarter and the same quarter a year ago.
> if i say it enough i will believe it.
> if i say it enough i will believe it.
Is this the same kind of stunt you’re trying to pull on every single Apple comments section? You seem to be convincing yourself of your BS awfully well. Thought it was time to try it out on the general public to see if they would immediately come around to your way of thinking?
Oh by the way, how are you going to back up your “Stocks are a direct indication of a company’s well being” when almost every company’s stock since 2000 has fallen like a brick?
MSFT:- ’00: ~60 per share. ’04: ~25 per share.
Oh, and Enron we’re obviously doing fabulously. How do you explain that one?
Stocks are the worst indication of how well a company is doing. We all know Microsoft is still doing just as well as it always has been, and we all know that Enron was full of shit from the start. Likewise, companies like ATYT have, since 2000, made a severe comeback in the graphics industry and are arguably doing much better than they ever have been, yet their stock price now is exactly the same was it was 5 years ago. (Yes I am well aware that there is more to reading stocks than price alone, you really need to take into account the volume and splits, fact remains, they’re an awful indicater).
Stocks are about hype, nothing more, nothing less.
“StarOffice was always going to be opensourced, and same goes for Netbeans. As for theose two projects, what have they done for their bottom line? absolutely f*cking nothing. They might as well pissed into the wind for all the effectiveness it has done.”
StarOffice license do sell and make money for Sun. NetBeans is the basis for thier Java Studio product. How can you be sure that StarOffice was always going to be open sourced? Do you have insider information?
When they purchased it many moons ago for $50million, that was their intention. Get the basic guts of 6.0 working, throw it out to the “community” and let the “community” help work on it.
I’m not dismissing that OpenOffice.org is a great piece of software along with the work they’ve done with the next version of StarOffice, but lets cut the chase, its all very good and well shipping office suites, however, if there isn’t that third party software vendor network there, the underlying operating system is as useless as pockets on a singlet; not matter *HOW GOOD* the operating system is, if the customers can’t run their “mission critical applications” on the desktop, the alternative offered by SUN will be completely useless.
“Each quarter less and less and less servers by SUN are being shipped. Not dollars, because they can be affected by the fact that SUN reduces prices, but I mean in terms of raw shipments each quarter. That is what you should be looking at. The introduction of the SPARC IV? done absolutenly ZIP to their bottom line, didn’t even add a cent to it.”
Introducing a product does not mean that it will be in the sales channel. You will have to wait for this quarter to see how well the USIV based systems do in the market.
USIV still performs worse than an Opteron. Please tell me, why on gods green earth would a person go and purchase a dual USIV server when an dual Opteron could whipe the foor with it?
Where do you get the raw shipments quarter over quarter? Can you please give me a link I would like to see that data.
Heaps of companys, IDC for example has a quarterly break down on the number of server shipments by the major server producers, their market share, whether they’ve increased their market share, whether their volume has increased over the last quarter and the same quarter a year ago.
I have one that I purchased in 1999, a 20 gig 7200 rpm drive, thats still very much alive. I hear lots of bad things about Maxtor drives but, knock on wood, mine has been rock solid so far. Still, I intend to replace it this year. Size alone, let alone speed or age, is getting annoying.
Can someone Ban, TheSeeker?
Persoanlly its a pain to skip over the vast amount anti Apple drivvle he propagates.
I think he is almost bordering on spamming…
maybe not ban him, just bar him from any Apple related article so we can actually read Apple news here again..
I have one that I purchased in 1999, a 20 gig 7200 rpm drive, thats still very much alive. I hear lots of bad things about Maxtor drives but, knock on wood, mine has been rock solid so far. Still, I intend to replace it this year. Size alone, let alone speed or age, is getting annoying.
Agreed, the two I’ve never had problems with are Maxtor and Western Digital. The 60gig Maxtor DiamondMax drive I purchased a little under 3 years ago, and the computer is left on 24/7, heavy thrashing as I regularly trash the FreeBSD ports and do I nice clean upgrade of the ports and reinstall all the userland applications. Not one fault.
The eMac which I am using, I ripped open the case and now have a 160gig Western Digital drive, working like a dream. Not one fault, the speed is awsome, I would suggest that anyone who has an old 1Ghz eMac and want some extra speed, upgrade the memory and the hard disk; you’ll definately notice the difference.
For the second time, since the first Mac concept virus was announced, a strange thing has happened to my Mac running OS 10.28.
Occasionally I have to download a piece of seldom used software, which I will use and then disgard.
The software in question Microsoft Media Player 9.0.( 6.1mb )
Twice I have downloaded the free version, from the link on Apples website, to the download page on Microsofts website.
After I view the files I delete the program, or attempt to.
This is when the trouble starts, I get a message: cannot be deleted because wmp.htm is in use.
This is the app file. Everything else I was able to track down and delete except this app which will not go away.
After messing with it, the app became property of the root,and my computer started acting strange.
My trash changed from 2 stages, to one stage, and if my computer is sitting idol, the cable modem blinks occasionally, and the computer takes unusually long to boot.
Other than that it has no effect,as long as I don’t play with it.
At one point I had a blue screen and a beachball, and nothing else, and had to unplug it.
I used the install disc to load a new system,and began playing again, I put the app in an empty folder and the folder became property of the root, and eventually I loaded a third sysyem, and am still playing with it.
It produced a copy of itself,which I managed to get rid of, and the folder that it enclosed itself in. ( I’m turning into a geek )
Now it appears as the Apple menu bar, app icon, and if I try to change permissions, after I close the info window,it reverts.
So……….., hows your day going, any suggestions.
Last time I had to back up my files and erase my HD.
Heaps of companys, IDC for example has a quarterly break down on the number of server shipments by the major server producers, their market share, whether they’ve increased their market share, whether their volume has increased over the last quarter and the same quarter a year ago.
Yes I know IDC provide the link to the IDC reports that show suns server volume shipments declining. From what I have seen of the IDC reports the volume shipments are increasing/constant But the revenue is declining because of heavy discounting. Your point was volume shipments so proivde the link to the Data that you so boldly made a stupid blanket statement based on. Here is the latest data I could find on IDCs report.
“Unix server revenues were $5.1 billion in the quarter, growing 0.8% – and showing the first year-over-year growth in 11 quarters. In a segment that is increasingly driven by price competition, unit shipments grew 12.1% year-over-year—sharply higher than the 4.7% growth seen in Q303. IBM took the lead in the Unix server market with 32.9% market share in terms of revenue. HP took the number 2 spot with 30.5% market share, and Sun had 27.6% market share reflecting its focus on unit shipment growth, posting 18.2% growth_the strongest year-over-year unit growth among the top 5 vendors.”
USIV still performs worse than an Opteron. Please tell me, why on gods green earth would a person go and purchase a dual USIV server when an dual Opteron could whipe the foor with it?
Define performs worse than opteron. Do you mean SPEC? or all of the follwing as well SPEC/TPC/SPECWEB99/SPECJBB?
Opteron will do better in SPEC (a synthetic cpu benchmark) a server is more than a cpu. But do you have any data that a dual opteron box will perform better than a Dual USIV ( 2cpu 4 cores/virtual cpus) across all application types and benchmarks. Take the fastest clock speed opteron shipping when the USIV was released put them in a dual cpu box and show me that the opteron performs better across the board on real world apps.
You made a blanket statment prove it with facts. I am not claim that the opteron might not perform better because I don’t have the data to draw a conclusion. Apparently, you do so please share it. I am always weary of people who make blanket statements.
Also you can buy an Opteron server from Sun. It would still be a Sun box, with a Sun logo. Sun doesn’t sell only Ultra Sparc based hardware, they have been selling x86 for a while now, ecspecailly thier focus being Opteron.
Ever notice how Windows Media Player also installs over 250 files. A bit much for a media player…that god-awful piece of sh!t software.
On the upside, it should be an easy fix.
Drag it into the trash, log out and back it. This should make sure that nothing is in use. Then try deleting it.
And if that doesn’t work…
The Secure-Empty-Trash method is only in 10.3, so you’ll need to use the Terminal. Open up Terminal, and ‘cd’ to the file. Then use ‘rm filenamehere’ to remove it.
Then as a preventative measure, stop installing MS software. It’s nothing but bugs. If you want to play WMV and WMA files, use another player, like MPlayer, or VLC Player.
“Define performs worse than opteron. Do you mean SPEC? or all of the follwing as well SPEC/TPC/SPECWEB99/SPECJBB?
Opteron will do better in SPEC (a synthetic cpu benchmark) a server is more than a cpu. But do you have any data that a dual opteron box will perform better than a Dual USIV ( 2cpu 4 cores/virtual cpus) across all application types and benchmarks. Take the fastest clock speed opteron shipping when the USIV was released put them in a dual cpu box and show me that the opteron performs better across the board on real world apps.”
I haven’t seen comparisons of the two either, but don’t forget about software optimizations. That can make or break any benchmark. I’ve seen better software do the same task over four times as fast as bad software.
Trucker B, I forgot the simplest method. If the file belongs to root, just log in as root and delete it.
Don’t forget you can change permissions in the Get Info panel.
I haven’t seen comparisons of the two either, but don’t forget about software optimizations. That can make or break any benchmark. I’ve seen better software do the same task over four times as fast as bad software.
My point exactly. Why people think it is OK to make, stupid generalizations without fact or data, is beyond me. I was just illustrating to kaiwai that he was making the same mistake, by claiming “opteron will wipe the floor of a USIV” .
This is analogus to saying Enigne A 200 horse power more than Engine B. So any car with engine A should be faster than any car with Engine B. If any one knows any thing about cars they would laugh at that statement.
TheSeeker Said: “none of it keeps apple from shrinking in total sales, profit, and marketshare.”
I have YET to see TheSeeker admit that we was WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG about this one. It is well documented and unambiguous that Apple’s SALES && PROFITS have increased for the past two years. Granted their MarketShare went wrong. So, I’ll make ya a deal, just admit that this statement is 2/3 incorrect. Are you brave enough to admit when you are cold wrong?
TheSeeker Drooled: “…read and follow along via the quotes you would see that nitwit. YOU ARE DUMB birdSHIT.”
Hey TheSeeker, I never resorted to name calling, in fact, my first post was very tame I thought. But since you resorted to namecalling, I’m going to safely assume you are no more than, at most, 11 years old. If you can’t stand the heat, get out the kitchen.
TheSeeker Scribbled: “my reply was for someone else if you could …”
And for the record, this is a FORUM, designed for PUBLIC DISCUSSION. If you wanna have a private ONE ON ONE coversation with someone, osnews is NOT the place. I will respond, retort, or support ANY COMMENT I see posted on this forum (as long as I am not banned).
Why does it bother you so much that there are millions of happy Apple users out there?
“does that limit my comments to just the last two years?”
Oh man, you really can split hairs, eh? You would be LAUGHED OUT of any financial institution for making asserstions like that. Do you really think that WallStreet gives a rat’s ass about what the profits were three years ago? Haha, boy you are naive…
Let’s look at what most normal investors look at: the CURRENT TREND (which has been upward by your own admission, so thanks for arguing my point. If you wanna go back to a three year period to make your point valid, then so be it, just know that you are REALLY reaching with your statement and most LOGICAL PEOPLE would say your statement INCORRECT in the context of the current situations.
Nitwit? Again with the namecalling? Boy you really can’t keep that under control can you?
“2.8 million macs”
It all depends on how you define success, isn’t it? I mean, you are looking at a company that can sell 2.8 million (MILLION!) computers and remain profitable and keep their investors happy. That is success in my book and in the book of most investors. Would Apple like to sell more computers? Sure, they are a business, like any business, they wanna sell as much of their product as they can. Consider this, if the WORLD MARKET ships less computers (and Apple’s marketshare grows exclusively as a result of this), will our be giving Apple credit for gaining in marketshare?
this guy is laughable “theseeker”.. reminds me of the “reality check” character on macobserver.com
full of totally biased opinion that has not one rational argument behind any point. did you just get fired from apple or something?
if you cannot see a difference between my not liking politicians and lawyers as a whole and some one not liking a RACE OF PEOPLE then you are plane stupid.
people can CHOOSE to be lawyers and politicians, a person can not CHOOSE to be Arabic, and in most cases have no choice in being Muslim (there are converts but they are very very few.)
and I guess you have had your head in a hole since PEOPLE REALLY DON’T LIKE POLITICIANS AND LAWYERS.
“they are not providing it. they are however providing steve jobs with i believe it is now over $1 billion in compensation since his return”
If this is true, then why hasn’t the board voted him off, they’ve done it in the past, there is nothing stopping them, is there?
“by the way, did you get that ati radeon 9800 mac special edition with 256mb ram yet?”
Did you get your Longhorn yet? hehe.
but i do have an ati radeon 9800 xt with 256 mb ram
and a
gainward nvidia geforce fx5950 golden sample with 256mb ram
both are cards that are not duplicated on any mac made nor are they build to order options nor are there any third party makers of the cards for mac.
sorry. maybe in another 6 months.
or better yet, maybe when you see the elusive 3ghz g5…or for that matter when you see the 1mhz upgrade to the current g5 line…hehe.
Got a dual 1Ghz Front Side Bus? Yeah, didn’t think so…
Got a Firewire 800 or Gigabit Ethernet in your Notebook? Oops, I didn’t think so…
my laptop does have 10/100/1000 (gigabit) ethernet internally
and also 802.11 a b and g internally…no option for that on mac…no “a” standard i should say.
i have several firewire 400 devices and zero 800 devices so i dont need it but if i wanted it, i could get firewire 800 quite easily:
3 port pcmcia card for $78
http://www.c-source.com/csource/newsite/ttechnote.asp?part_no=73010…
sorry.
i dont have a dual cpu $3k rig. i have a 2 rigs that cost that. or i could buy a more powerful tower and a laptop for less than a dual 2ghz g5.
my best rig has
http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=K8T_Neo-FIS2R&c…
msi K8T Neo-FIS2R
CPU
• Supports 64-bit AMD® Athlon64 processor (Socket 754) (mine has an athlon 64 3400+ attached)
Chipset
• VIA® K8T800 Chipset
– HyperTransport connection to AMD Next Generation of CPU
– 8 or 16 bit control/ address. data transfer both directions
– 800/600/400/200MHz “Double Data Rate” operation both direction
– AGP v3.0 compliant with 8X transfer mode
• VIA® VT8237 Chipset
– Ultra DMA 66/100/133 master mode EIDE controller
– Integrated dual channel native Serial ATA/RAID controller that will supply 150MB/s and support RAID 0, RAID 1
– ACPI & PC2001 compliant enhanced power management
– Supports 8 USB2.0 ports. (Rear x4/ Front x4)
Main Memory
• Supports three 184-pin DDR SDRAMs up to 2GB memory size
• Supports DDR400*/DDR333/DDR266 DDR SDRAM (*Refer to MSI recommended modules)
• Note: PC3200 (DDR400) maximum 4 banks (2 double-sided) only
Due to the High Performance Memory design, motherboards or system configurations may or may not operate smoothly at the JEDEC (Joint Electron Device Engineering Council) standard settings (BIOS Default on the motherboard) such as DDR voltage, memory speeds and memory timing. Please confirm and adjust your memory setting in the BIOS accordingly for better system stability.
Example: Kingston HyperX DDR500 PC4000 operates at 2.65V, 3-4-4-8, CL=3.
For more information about specification of high performance memory modules, please check with your Memory Manufactures for more details.
Slots
• One AGP (Accelerated Graphics Port) 1.5V 4x/8x slot
• Five PCI 2.2 32-bit Master PCI Bus slots. (support 3.3v / 5v PCI bus interface)
BIOS
• The mainboard BIOS provides “Plug & Play” BIOS which detects the peripheral devices and expansion cards of the board automatically.
• The mainboard provides a Desktop Management Interface (DMI) function which records your mainboard specifications.
On-Board IDE
• An IDE controller on the VT8237 chipset provides IDE HDD/CD-ROM with PIO, Bus Master and Ultra DMA 66/100/133 operation modes. It can connect 4 Ultra ATA drives.
• Serial ATA/150 controller integrated in VT8237
– Up to 150MB/s transfer speed
– Can connect up to 2 Serial ATA drives
– Support RAID 0, RAID 1
Promise 20378 Onboard
• Supports ultra ATA, Serial ATA, Ultra ATA RAID 0 or 1, Serial ATA RAID 0 or 1, Ultra/ Serial ATA RAID 0+1
• Connect up to 2 Serial ATA devices and 2 Ultra ATA 133 devices
IEEE1394
• VIA VT6307 IEEE1394 controller
• Provides onboard one 6-pins port and one 4-pins port
• Transfer rate up to 400Mbps
Audio
• 6 Channel software audio codec Realtek ALC655
• Compliance with AC97′ v2.3 Spec
• Meet PC2001 audio performance requirement
• Provide onboard SPDIF out
Network
• Realtek 8110S Dual layout
• Integrated Gigabit Ethernet MAC and PHY transceiver, auto-negotiation operation.
• Supports single-port 10MB/s, 100MB/s, 1000MB/s Base-T application.
• Compliance with PCIv2.2 and LAN on Motherboard (LOM) standard.
On-Board Peripherals
– 1 floppy port supports 2 FDDs with 360K, 720K, 1.2M, 1.44M and 2.88Mbytes
– 1 serial ports COM1
– 1 parallel port supports SPP/EPP/ECP mode
– 8 USB 2.0 ports (Rear x 4 / Front x 4)
– 5 audio ports in vertical (Left, Center, Right, Line-in, MIC)
– 1 SPDIF out
2 IEEE 1394 connectors
– 1 RJ-45 jack
– 1 IrDA connector for SIR/ASKIR/HPSIR
so a double data rate 800mhz bus is an effective 1600mhz single bus. so it is 600mhz faster per bus than the best g5.
“VIA has made quite a point lately in literature and press releases of the fact that they are the only chipset to support fully the full-speed 800Mhz (1.6GHz) Hypertransport bus. This is certainly true. A full 800MHz HT bus requires very low noise circuits, and VIA claims that others cannot yet implement 800 Hypertransport because of excessive circuit noise.”
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.html?i=1883&p=3
add up the features on that motherboard and the best mac will be lacking on most.
a dual cpu 2ghz g5 has 2ghz of bus speed though, so it does have that category sewn up.
but, the above solution combined with other top notch components (many not available for a mac) will produce a computer that is more powerful and it will cost substantially less.
All that hardware goodness and you still can’t run the OS X or use Expose. What a shame.
“so a double data rate 800mhz bus is an effective 1600mhz single bus. so it is 600mhz faster per bus than the best g5.”
Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t the G5 also DDR?
From the Apple Site:
“Designed to harness the power of the PowerPC G5 processor, a 1GHz, 64-bit bidirectional Double Data Rate (DDR) frontside bus maximizes throughput between the processor and the system controller”
Er?
“expose as a feature is available on windows xp pro”
You are clearly confused as to what the Expose feature is, look it up. Windows XP Pro does NOT offer the functionality that Expose offers. Please provide me a link if what you say is true…
but i dont think the g5 has an effective 2ghz per cpu bus.
id have to look for tech specs. their site doesnt say it does it.