Download the developer release of HelloWorld, a new chatting/community environment (with a backend connected to Gnutella for file sharing) that some people say that it could revolutionize the way we see the world via IM. The application currently works under Windows (the company might do an OSX port if there is enough demand for it) and the file weighs 24 MB.Our Take: I just tried it, it is looking really nice, modern and “clever”, but compared to some other expected IM capabilities (e.g. load a browser when you click a URL), it seems still a bit poor in the usability (and maybe a bit confusing at first). But it is certainly a neat product and it does have a certain “wow” factor in it.
Cooperating Systems’ HelloWorld: DR Release Now Available
Submitted by Yarone Goren 2003-04-02 Internet 36 Comments
I’ve glanced through their whitepaper on their web site, and I don’t see anything I find particularly revolutionary. Mostly I see features I’d dub “useless”. Furthermore, what is wrong with existing systems? (most notably IRC) IRC is a fully open technology, and very mature. What is this system offering that IRC doesn’t provide?
Well, looks good for one thing…
However, I don’t like their architecture which requires a static IP address… First of all this is kinda insecure, and second, most people don’t have static IPs, making the software problematic right from the start (you can’t see users connected if you don’t have their IP/domain name information, as in IM where you need the handle). I think they should either switch to a login/pass architecture, or include a dyndns module by default with the app.
Other than that, is a neat app. For a demo. 😉
Hello all –
Just want to throw a little data on the fire here
HW is deliberately based upon the existing IP addressing system, just like all our Internet browsers. It does not require a static IP address; in fact we are very much committed to the DNS system. However, you are right to suggest that a DNS module belongs in the app; we will get that in the next round of development. We did want to keep the user identity system external to the app, though, which is why we do not have a login/pass structure there. We do not want to own user’s identities, or force users into a closed identity system like many other systems will.
No 1.0 application will ever hit the mark precisely; to the extent that desireble features are missing, and there are plenty, they are only lines of code away… it was more important to us for this round to focus on some unique ideas, like peripheral messaging, rather reinvent the wheels that IRC or AIM or Outlook already have covered quite well. We can work on integration of such things later.
So, for this release, we hope that folks out there can sit back, not take it too seriously, and just enjoy a little different approach to things.
Looking forward to further exchange – best to you all from us here at CoSI
Hi Phil, thanks for stopping in.
I was just in on HelloWorld a few minutes ago, but I see currently only 3 people that are logged in, they are the pre-setuped users. How do I add a new user? How do I search for new users? I believe that this should be addressed… (and adding this of course, it means that then we will need the option to ban unwanted people, etc etc) Right now, I just don’t find it compelling enough, as I know of no one that is connected in…
Phil, thanks for explaining the philosophy behind HW on our online chat.
So, basically, for the rest of the readers herem, here is the explanation: http://cooperatingsystems.com/culture/talkingspace/showthread.php?f…
I had a similar idea awhile ago, but was too lazy to do anything with it. What if, instead of ip addresses, you used pgp keys. The result would be a decentralized network, with everything encrpyted. Also, from a random point on the network, it would be nearly impossible to determine who was talking to whom. To communicate with someone, you’d need their public key, that’s all.
This would solve two of the problems Phil mentions, that they don’t want to own identities, and that dns is a problematic system.
This looks alright. Of course, there is no linux version, which prevents me from using it, and will prevent me from using three degrees. Of course, three degrees has a better chance of being reverse engineered, so I’m sure I’ll have a linux version of that soon after it’s released.
this looks interesting but 2 things are instantly driving me insane.
1st the music and sounds. Why is this app making sound. Only my music playing on my computer should be playing continous sound.
2nd, why is is full screen only, this makes usage of my computer well nearly impossible.
maybe there is some way to change this but i can’t find a way.
figured out the window thing control + fixes that, it may be my off base opinon but having something default fuller then full screen is not a good thing and having the fix be not obvious doens’t help. Still no clue on the sound.
Ok i’m going to stop for a bit, but i did get the sound thing figured out. This does look like an interesting app, but i must say it is not very intuitive and the default setup in not ideal. Also it doesn’t seam many people are using it. and on the window size thing. A fixed size window is not a good thing either. I understand it seams you have some veiws on this about people moving windows around and such. I can’t say I full agree with you. and in any advent doing something that i would think would bug many people who want to use it will not help things. Just a thought/sugestion.
on the plus the app it’s self is very pretty
So, what do you get in that 24 MB archive? A realtime chat program? How innovative. A 24 MB chat program, that is. Is this the innovative trait that sets HelloWorld apart from other offerings?
Well, if you think that the app has all the widgets re-written, plus the pictures accompanied it, no wonder is so big. This is not just a small icq program, it is a full, taking over your desktop.
IRC is a fully open technology, and very mature. What is this system offering that IRC doesn’t provide?
I haven’t been on IRC in quite some time, but unless it has changed as of late, I would call it anything but mature. As I remember, it was plauged by extremely long lag time on crowded networks and netsplits were all too common, amoung other things. IRC is/was ok and I like the fact that it is open too, but I would hardly call it the end-all of chat networks.
1. PGP keys – great idea
2. Linux – around the corner, after the OSX build
3. Footprint: the executable itself is quite small, only 2MB or so if I recall correctly. The app is indeed visually rich, but it is not graphically excessive; that is to say, the entire thing is done in code with the exception of the map, which is a simple grayscale PNG file, and a couple of small graphical resources. The bulk of the 24MB footprint is sample content and audio files. Consider that AOL is now easily a 40+MB download, with no extras; everything’s relative
And how bout linux for non-x86 while you’re at it. Or i guess i could put it on my celeron and use X forwarding.
This is not a chat app, as in applet, i can see this is going to be an application.
Since it piggybacks the Gnutella network, it aslo has the peer to peer file transfer capabilities. I’ve transfered files on this, it cant seem to download from multiple sources yet i think… but even now, one on one downloading works like a charm.
Its a good idea that this thing takes the whole screen cause alot of things happen on the main screen. Theres an entire world map there. You can put post it notes and other ppl can set up post it notes that one person or a whole group of ppl can see. File transfers are displayed on the world map so you can see where exactly you are downloading from.
I’ve had a chat with one of their friendly developers there and she suggested i use dyndns.com + the DeeEnEss app to set up my ip. Even though my ip is dynamic but now i have a static one eg: walrus.dnsalias.net which i can use to connect. And anyone can add me to their buddy list using this name too.
The big file size is because they include alot of picures and music in thier libary which you dont need but you can use, such maps with diff timezones, maps showing water currents, they also have diff avatars that you can quickly change to, like when you are away. Anyway, theses are all extras and im sure they can package a lite version without all of these bells and whistles.
Its pretty quick too, even on my p350 its very slick.
The best thing i thing about it is that it uses the Gnutella network. Meaning there are no central servers that may break down or get overburdened.
A real good idea. One for the future.
I have heard about Hello world from OSNews some months ago and have been anticipating it since. Now that it has bee released, I can say that for a Developers Release, it ran very smoothly for me. I’ve been using it for 5+ hours now, and it hasn’t crashed or anything.
The GUI is very responsive with no slow-downs or jerkiness. The program is also aesthetically pleasing, with customizable maps which you can dynamically colorize to your liking.
As it is now, it basically is an IM/File Sharing app. I have tried searches, both mine and some I picked up from the programs ticker (which also broadcasts search terms from other users). Downloading worked like a charm, the visual feedback provided by the icons for the file being downloaded, showing progress, was also a nice touch.
I’ve chatted using Hello world, and their IM implementation is simple but direct to the point.
I think Hello World is fairly intuitive, having spent at most only 5 minutes to know my around the GUI (Probably less if I had read the quick start guide :-))
Overall, I think Hello World is a promising program. It only needs a community to grow around it. Given the fact that many users are vocal about what they want, it is only a matter of time before issues get addressed and more functionality added.
As far as I can tell this thing is incompatible with the established im-networks. If it is they can just pack it in right now, the last one that was able to muscle in on that market was MS.
Also about this revolutionary “geo contextual”-whatever, I remember seeing a jabber-client written in java that had something similar, but it could use all sorts of maps (like office-maps, country , etc) I don’t remember the name but I think it was made by some university.
It’s called Buddyspace ( http://kmi.open.ac.uk/projects/buddyspace/ )
Compatible with most im-networks and cross platform. Look here ( http://kmi.open.ac.uk/projects/buddyspace/userguide/img/map-screen-… ) for a screenshot.
bah.. bloatware, i’d rather use my MIDP java app on my GPRS phone to chat: 64kb memory space, and i connect to any major IM provider (MSN, Yahoo, AIM, etc), has 1-on-1 and group chats, contact search, presence and no ads popping out every 2 seconds.
side note: honestly, i thought a HelloWorld app that weights 24 mb (yes, i know, code is not optimized yet) was just an april fool’s prank (the name is unfortunate, sounds like the basic tutorial script newbies write in php/asp/jsp/perl/c/what-not)
Insert bloated-application joke here 🙂
I can’t find any way of tunnelling this via a proxy, so I guess if you’re on a corp network you need to use socks for now. Oh well
If you’re interested in this sort of application, you should try SafeWorlds:
It’s somewhat different then HelloWorld, but it also does several things better. It doesn’t require a fixed or even public IP address. It’s efficient and stable, although many features still have to be added. The download is just a half MB. Versions are available for Windows, Linux and FreeBSD, and MacOS X is planned.
If this sounds like a recommendation, then it’s because it is. 🙂
How about integrating IE into HelloWorld?
For the first time in history, a good looking windows application!
> The GUI is very responsive with no slow-downs or jerkiness.
It is actually pretty slow on some operations on my dual Celeron SMP 2×533 Mhz/256 MB RAM/WinXP PRO. Sometimes I just type something, and I see the the text printed slowly (like when doing Mozilla forms under beos ).
Other operations are fast, but others are slowish. I believe some optimizations can _definately_ take place. The developers say that minimum is 200 Mhz PC, but that is too slow for that app.
Please optimize a bit more…
“For the first time in history, a good looking windows application!”
Oh? You didn’t like the look of Bryce? Or even Softimage?
“For the first time in history, a good looking windows application!”
“Oh? You didn’t like the look of Bryce? Or even Softimage?”
heh – Look at the UI design credits on Bryce, then look at the credits for HelloWorld.
Not really. The Cooperative systems guys are ex-Metacreation guys. 😉
installed it, ran it, got about seven errors during load up. uninstalled it…
I posted that in my case the GUI was very responsive.
I guess you can Chalk that up to the 2.26GHz P4 512MB DDR and GF4 ti 4600.
But I agree with Eugenia that more optimisations should be done. I don’t really expect minimum requirements to adequately perform, regardless of the program. Some breathing room if preferable, but I guess Min Requirements should be determined as the specs which should run the program at acceptable rates, not the min at which a program could be run.
Hello world is a Developers release right now, and I believe they are considering more app integration in the future, like a browser. What they basically have now is a program that they could take in different directions.
Hopefully, in future releases, Hello world would address users’ concerns and wish-lists.
This seems sort of silly to me. I think that chat has reached its highest potential without becoming overly bloated. There is no “innovation” to be had. File sharing? 1) Not essential, 2) covered in every commercial chat network. Geo-contextual whatever? I don’t know anybody who cannot look at a list of three little tabs at the bottom of their screen and not within two seconds remember 1) who they are and 2) what country they’re from. And who on earth groups their friends by their countries and looks at a map and thinks, “Hm…Paruguay…let’s see if I have any friends from there. And if so, I DEFINITELY want to talk to them.” Chat is about human interaction. If you don’t HAVE any friends, it doesn’t matter how many libraries this is dynamically linked to (Lord…I don’t even know what that means), you aren’t going to enjoy using this. How many people would really care whether they were talking to somebody who they REALLY wanted to talk to via AIM Express (Java web version) or some 24-megabyte geo-crap chat thing?
File sharing? 1) Not essential, 2) covered in every commercial chat network.
Have you actually seen this program? Not essential for what? we’re talking about sharing in the level of Kazaa, Gnutella or Napster. Covered by other commercial networks? Which other commercial networks have kazza like sharing abilities where you can search everyone in it entire network? This program can search the entire gnutella network. I seriously doubt you’ve even tried this program before commenting about it.
And if you’d tried the the program you’d also would have met their friendly developers and they’d tell you that this program wont be limied to those ppl in your buddy list. Soon you’ll be able to chat with anyone else using this program, and it’ll of interest where they are. You’d also realize this is not a “chat” program that is so limited such as ICQ or AIM. Most of the comments seem to be comparing with these sort of applets. Hello world is an innovative application and you’re supposed to be focused in communication. With new friends all around the world. If you’d have tried it, you’d realize how silly your comparisons are.
Regarding Stephen’s comments, which are as welcome from our POV as any others: over the last two years we have found that there are those for whom the visual geo-contextualization of networked operations holds real power (high-level data visualization space for disparate operations), magic, and wonder. We, of course, are among those
There are also those for whom the whole idea is a gigantic yawn; no amount of explanation or defensive posturing will change that POV, and we do not think it is necessary. Stephen may well be in that group, and that’s OK. Nobody needs to be sold a transmission if they do not believe in the use of automobiles
It’s a great big beautiful world, with room for all of us… and it’s great to see robust discussion here
ps all that said, thanks to Johan for his comments as well
Oh, by the way… our own HelloWorld initial implementation of chat notwithstanding… the statement that chat has reached its highest potential, with no innovation to be had… wow. Suffice to say that chat has hardly scraped the surface of its potential. There is much to be done: repairs, refinements, integrations, and especially innovation. Moreover, it is important to do these things now, while it is still in its infancy.
Not a new concept, I think.
I am interested in the fact that there are ex-Metacreations people involved, though… I wonder if I know any of them…
And no, I don’t really like the Bryce interface. It’s pretty, but I find it less functional. Same with Carrara (originally Ray Dream Studio, rewritten and a new, slow, sluggish, buggy GUI stapled on top by Metacreations… later to be improved to usability by the people at Eovia, the final owner of Carrara).