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Everybody always talks about all the talent that Google brings in, but it is Amazing what Apple gets done with so few employees.

I am convinced that the company is run by genetically engineered super-mice and the people are just the face of the company.

I think they may be stretching the term “OS X” a little. Although I do believe that they are probably running most of the same APIs on both of the devices (Core Video / Core Animation). The real proof of the pudding is if they’re using the Darwin kernel, because if they are - Apple will have to (eventually) release the source code, or relevant changes for iPhone/TV compatibility.

Why do they have to release the source code ? Is Darwin not on a BSD like license ?

You are both wrong.
Darwin is based on BSD licensed code, but Darwin itself is Apple Public Source License. Apple can choose which parts of the core Darwin OS are released as open source.

Apple doesn't have to release a lot of sources, but they do anyway. LLVM is open source under a BSD license, but Apple will contribute their improvements to the community: http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/pipermail/llvmdev/2007-January/007813.html

You are both wrong.
Darwin is based on BSD licensed code, but Darwin itself is Apple Public Source License. Apple can choose which parts of the core Darwin OS are released as open source.

Read parent again:

Is Darwin not on a BSD like license ? (emphasis mine)

The APSL can be said to be BSD-like, although it is a bit more restrictive.

The APSL ist not BSD-like. The APSL has more in common with the LGPL as it requires modifications to be open source as well (see §2.2c).

> I really doubt the new hardware is putting much strain on the OS team.

Yeah right. Porting an OS to another architecture (ARM), making apps fit to the small screen (usability wise), etc. is a piece of cake...

You're assuming that the code is so badly written that they have to virtually re-write everything for each architecture.

Lets remember folks, when they made the transition to x86, the lead programmer stated that when writing MacOS X - they wrote all the software they had with platform independence (using non-architecture specific tweaks) in their software.

Alot of the time, with programming, it isn't necessarily the size of the team which dictates sucess or failure - one only needs to look at Microsoft and their products; what dictates sucess is whether you have a good manager, a team of dedicated programmers who are given enough leverage to make decisions independent of the beuacracy in large companies which normally slows down decision making.

Its all about triage, focus and priorities; and up to management and staff to allocate resources into areas according to priority and likelihood of success rather than following fancy free, pie in the sky dreams which end up sucking up money and never resulting in a shipping product - Winfs being a prime example of "R&D for the sake of R&D"; it make tickle your fancy, but if the R&D doesn't result in a product which brings in cash, its a waste of time and resources.

> You're assuming that the code is so badly written that they have to
> virtually re-write everything for each architecture.

No, I don't. Don't put words in my mouth.

> Lets remember folks, when they made the transition to x86, the lead
> programmer stated that when writing MacOS X - they wrote all the
> software they had with platform independence

If you think that even with a portable code base an OS port to a new architecture gets done by itself, you're plain wrong.
Look at the quality the first OS X 10.4 developer release for Intel had. There's a huge difference between "it compiles and somehow runs" and production quality. It took Apple ca. 5 years to make a production quality Mac OS from the OPENSTEP base. If I had thought that Apple had to rewrite everything for the iPhone, the ARM port had to happen 5 years ago.
No, Apple didn't need 5 years for the iPhone port, but an additional port takes additional resources -- even more to put it up to produtcion quality.

Exactly. "Spring" doesn't mean "exactly on March 21st". "Spring" is "anywhere from March 21st through June 21st".

Sit tight, kids. Chances are we'll see it closer to WWDC.

Clearly you're not interested in developing Cocoa and ObjC 2.0 applications.

Correct .. im a user .....

You'll care when the developers release those OpenGL 2 accelerated games, Core Text/Core Animation, etc., applications, etc.

Yes and by that time ill have Leopard ! The games i doubt, as i have an Xbox360 and Wii and care not for MacBook gaming !

Well, it does make a difference when Leopard is released if you want to buy a new computer with Leopard pre-installed--it means waiting that much longer to buy the computer.

Right now I tell everyone who's considering buying a Mac, "wait until they release the new version of the OS this Spring." But some people are quite impatient to buy their new computer, especially if I were to tell them "just wait until Fall, it turns out I was wrong".

Of course, this is exactly why Apple doesn't put out *too* much press about Leopard before it's ready. They don't want the general populace to be discouraged from buying a shiny new Mac *now*. They know that as soon as word gets out that the current version of OS X is soon to be outdated, people might decide to impulse-buy a Vista PC instead of waiting to buy a Mac.

This is all the more reason for Apple to try to bring Leopard out sooner rather than later. I'd say the end of June is just about the latest that Apple should release Leopard if they want to be able to cash in on the back-to-school marketing season.

I'd rather wait for a bug free release of Leopard than getting one that acts like a beta release. Also the delay will most likely cause Apple and it's authorized resellers to offer system buyers a free upgrade Leopard when it is released so as to not decrease Mac sales. This would be no different than how Dell and HP were offering for a short time free Windows Vista upgrade coupons for early system purchases due to Microsoft delaying Vista's release.

Also the delay will most likely cause Apple and it's authorized resellers to offer system buyers a free upgrade Leopard when it is released so as to not decrease Mac sales.

Hmm, I wasn't aware that Apple did that. Cool.

Well, to be fair, they've always done this when they announced a ship date for Leopard and an upgrade process for those that bought machines from that point on that had a previous OS still on it.

I don't see how apple operates like this.

If they had any sense about them, they would be selling all new macs now with a free upgrade (or charge $10 for shipping) to leopard.

I'm waiting for leopard too. It will be my first Mac if I get it. All this time between now and when it is released I am looking at Linux compatible Dell laptops. OSX isn't something that I need, but if I get it, I'll wait a few months to get the latest. I'd be happy with a laptop that just works with Windows and Linux too.

Apparently well enough to make $1B last quarter.

Re: "is the rest really worth all the chatter?"

For some yes. I'll be upgrading to take advantage of true 64-bit support and Core Animation.

If by interesting you mean idiotic then yes.

I am lauging so hard I can hardly breathe. Then I read the linked artcles from the blog, and things get even more hilarious. I needed a good chuckle.

Unreal. I make a post with a link and get modded down 2 points to 0? For a link?

Wow, who did you p__s off? The linked blog was on topic, albeit wild and bizarre speculation, but the parent article here is speculation. If anyone read the linked blog they would have found the guys ravings came from smoe more legitimate sources.

Whho ever modded you down needs a "time out".

"The linked blog was on topic, albeit wild and bizarre speculation"

Hence why I said "interesting." It was simply an interesting opinion, and certainly more believable

I'll give the trolls something to mod down with this comment: Say anything even remotely negative about Macs and watch the frothing at the mouth Apple zealots come out of the word work. God bless 'em for being truly inspired by what they believe in (Macs) but damn me if the root of all zealotry is nothing more than plain ol' insecurity.

Btw, I'm a Mac user (for my none work related computing needs at least). Have been since OS7. For me it's nothing more than a tool. If in fact they are holding off for Vista support, I say kudos...users like me will be most appreciative.

"Apple doesn't want to make a Microsoft"

No, they've done FAR worse...

Anyone here know what Apple did during their latest Firmware update to all Intel Macs?

If you have a copy of XP or Vista laying around (for the PC someone *else* in your family likes using, of course), pop it in. Reboot. Hold down 'C'.

Be amazed...

Your Intel Mac is now *nothing* more than a PC that can run MacOS X.

Any guesses as to why Leopard may be being delayed? Possibly to make it run on *ALL* PC's?

Those of us who are the die-hard Mac faithful ("We don't do Windows!"), we have been betrayed by Steve Jobs and Apple in the worst possible way. Not only are our "Macs" no longer ANY different from a regular PC, they boot Windows natively, JUST like a regular PC!

Those of you who are closet Wintel users who secretly want all Intel Macs to turn into "Apple PC's", your dream has come true. No longer is there ANYTHING stopping PC users from erasing EVERY trace of MacOS X from your computer and making it a full-blown Windows/Linux/whatever box. If your OS has the drivers... your Mac needn't be a Mac any longer!

XP still requires BootCamp to at least get the proper drivers from Apple first (assuming you can't get them elsehow), but not so with Vista.

Some of you may not care one way or the other. Others of you, like me, may be enraged that this is the level Steve Jobs/Apple have stooped to. Frankly, right about now, I couldn't care less if Steve Jobs left Apple, Steve Jobs was kicked out of Apple, or Apple ceased to exist 20 seconds from now. As far as I'm concerned, Apple is simply just another consumer product company, like Sony, JVC, Dell, etc.

...and one I don't plan to buy computers from ever again...

Edited 2007-03-26 19:47

All I can say in reply to Luposian is, this weekend when someone mentioned that since the last firmware update, Windows would just boot and install without bootcamp, I inserted a 98 Boot CD I made long time ago into the Mac Mini Core Duo 1.66 and held down C and it booted to a DOS prompt which is the way I made the CD. I ran Fdisk, zapped the partitions, then Rebooted holding the the mouse to eject the CD, inserted a Vista RC2 DVD, Held C it booted right up, choose the blank Hard Drive, made the 76GB partition and off went the install. After it rebooted there was Vista. It went on to find all drivers needed right in Vista. So what I have here is a Mac Mini Core DUO with Vista and NO Bootcamp. I did not activate it as I do not plan on keeping it that way, but wanted to see if I was told the truth. I was. XP did the same thing but needed drivers after the install.

Edited 2007-03-26 22:02

Does the Mac start ?
Did bootcamp start ?
Fine, your Mac is working, now for any XP support.... Phone Microsoft

The Mach runtime isn't disappearing. Apple already leverages much from FreeBSD. OS X has way fat support for various chip architectures. Whether it's ARM, x86, ppc, 68k, etc., the kernel is incredibly portable.

June is actually summer.

They have 21 days in June before summer.

They have 21 days in June before summer.

Only if you're reckoning via astromony.

Traditional and meteorological reckonings place June firmly in summer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Season#Four_Seasons

In the United States, where Apple is based, the astronomical reckoning of seasons is used. Given the announcement and the company both originated in the U.S. it seems reasonable to say that by Apple's announcement was based on said reckoning. So June 21st sees like a reasonable intent on the deadline.

The entirety of US Calendars say the first day of June is between June 19th and June 23rd.... Since Apple is largely a producer of US used PC's (their popularity elsewhere isn't nearly as high, except a few hot spots) I think we can safely go by the US calendars.

June is most definitely, predominately, a spring month. I'll stick with the calendars like everyone else, thanks.

The entirety of US Calendars say the first day of June is between June 19th and June 23rd.... I think we can safely go by the US calendars.

If they say that the first day of june is between june 19th and june 23rd, I don't think that we can trust these calendars.

"June is still spring, you know..."

Indeed.
Summer goes from approx. June 21 to approx. Sept 21.
However, colloquially speaking, in the US Summer goes from around May 31 (Memorial Day weekend) to around Sept 1 (Labor Day weekend). That is what is what the public thinks of as "summertime". Companies know that, so they announce "Spring" and "Summer" as release periods, knowing that the public will take that as one month (actually 21 days) earlier than what is really meant.

It's quite clever as it makes a product *seem* closer to release than it really is, while giving the company approximately one extra month of development time, so they can say, "We still made the release date!" This is especially common in the video games biz.

Edited 2007-03-24 18:06