Linked by Kroc Camen on Tue 11th Aug 2009 11:32 UTC
Podcasts

A very special 3 hour show dedicated solely to the topic problem of Apple with the additional voices of OSNews owner David and OSNews Web-Wizard, Adam. We lay down our own Apple histories and 'geek cred', discuss [unavoidably] the iPhone and AppStore, what should be done about it but move onto bigger things like the 'Apple Tablet', Apple's changing trends in design and what each of us would do if we got the call to be CEO of Apple. This show was a lot of fun to record, and we hope you enjoy it, Apple fan or hater alike.

Download .mp3 | Subscribe in iTunes | Subscribe RSS

Order by: Score:
Note to self
by Wondercool on Tue 11th Aug 2009 12:34 UTC
Wondercool
Member since:
2005-07-08

Note to self: change setting in Firefox on .mp3 files.
I clicked on Download Mp3 file and Apple Quicktime fired up....

Reply Score: 1

RE: Note to self
by Kroc on Tue 11th Aug 2009 12:39 UTC in reply to "Note to self"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

Yes, it will do that.

Alt+Click will download the link.

QT will allow you to stream the show in a background tab, and you can then File > Save As to keep the MP3.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Note to self
by Wondercool on Tue 11th Aug 2009 13:02 UTC in reply to "RE: Note to self"
Wondercool Member since:
2005-07-08

Hi Kroc, I actually intended that I should remove all my Quick Time references in my Firefox application/plugin list.
Quicktime tries to open all types of video and audio right now, when it should only open Apple specific formats.
But I guess you are right: download .mp3 = treat content as a data file.

Reply Score: 1

No tumbleweed here!
by Sparrowhawk on Tue 11th Aug 2009 16:09 UTC
Sparrowhawk
Member since:
2005-07-11

I listened from start to finish whilst coding this afternoon. Thanks for a great podcast, I really enjoyed it and I think that the four of you bounced well off one another. Well done to Kroc for (mostly!) keeping everybody on topic, although when you did go OT, I found that interesting too (AmigaOS and/or Morphos on G4 Macs - do you happen to know if that will also work on G5s?)

Agree 100% with the developer comments, sort of agree with the Mac colours point but personally I rather like the minimalist designs of the current range. Were I CEO of Apple I'd probably offer colours, but in more muted shades than before. To use a car analogy... oh hang on, you already did that one. Ok then, well I'd go for the Mac equivalent of metallic paints on cars.

Free mobile.me. Yes. Tablet - agreed it's going to have to be iPhone OS, but fingers crossed for a more open platform than the iPhone.

I was rather disconcerted when I prompted the podcast that the black iMac G3s were "graphite" only for Kroc to immediately say "graphite, that's right" right back at me - freaked me out slightly ;)

Overall, a really enjoyable podcast. Thanks again.

Reply Score: 1

D'oh!
by Adam S on Tue 11th Aug 2009 17:17 UTC
Adam S
Member since:
2005-04-01

For the record, when I mentioned Gobe Productive for Windows, I, of course, meant "Gobe Productive for Linux." Sorry for the confusion.

Reply Score: 1

RE: D'oh!
by Kroc on Tue 11th Aug 2009 17:37 UTC in reply to "D'oh!"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

I left that in, as I also left in some chat during the break where we made jokes about that ;)

Reply Score: 1

Not real
by Almafeta on Tue 11th Aug 2009 19:10 UTC
Almafeta
Member since:
2007-02-22

Not that these are not real concerns, but part of a campaign to create 1984 days of anti-Apple FUD in retaliation for big, mean Apple refusing to sell something made by (the completely innocent, wholly independent, mom-and-pop company) Google.

http://www.osnews.com/story/21918/The_Camel_s_Back_Broke_1984_Days_...

Reply Score: 1

RE: Not real
by Kroc on Tue 11th Aug 2009 19:18 UTC in reply to "Not real"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

If that wasn’t real, then we’re the best actors in the world.

Reply Score: 1

The 12-inch iBook
by darknexus on Tue 11th Aug 2009 21:04 UTC
darknexus
Member since:
2008-07-15

I have to agree with you guys about the 12-inch iBook, it was certainly the best laptop I've ever owned. It was probably the first time I actually felt bad when a computer died since, by the time it did, I couldn't get it repaired for a good price. It ran cool, had truly amazing battery life if you tweaked its performance settings (I got up to 11 hours with Wifi), and for what was in it performance was excellent. It was also probably the most reasonably-priced Apple laptop at least here in the US, at $995 it was cheaper than its Windows equivalents which were big and ridiculously prone to heating issues. On the downside though, it was a real bitch to upgrade the hd in that thing, but still...

Reply Score: 2

OS X "Maximize" Button
by zlynx on Tue 11th Aug 2009 21:15 UTC
zlynx
Member since:
2005-07-20

You doofs ;)

It isn't a maximize button. It adjusts the window to the "best" size. For the Finder it is the size that fits all the icons in the window. For a PDF it is big enough to fit the edges, or the top and bottom. Etc.

Some applications do treat it as a maximize button. However, that is not what they are supposed to do with it. Compare Safari and Firefox to see this.

I am surprised at you all for not realizing how this button works long ago.

It's a very useful button!

Reply Score: 4

RE: OS X "Maximize" Button
by memson on Tue 11th Aug 2009 21:57 UTC in reply to "OS X "Maximize" Button"
memson Member since:
2006-01-01

Moreover, try this:

Open a finder window. Press +, depending on your folder view, you will get one of the following results:

"As Columns" mode: will expand or contract to the last column with information in it.
"As Icons" mode: will expand or contract to show all of the icons (within the given space available)
"As List" mode: will expand or contract to show all of the columns (size, type etc) and will shrink height to fit items in list as icons mode.
"As coverflow" : pretty much does nothing on my Leopard install.

No one ever claimed it was a maximise button, it is a "size to optimal dimensions" button. It always shows the maximum amount of the window it is attached to, when used correctly. Some apps break these rules.

Reply Score: 2

RE: OS X "Maximize" Button
by Kroc on Wed 12th Aug 2009 09:59 UTC in reply to "OS X "Maximize" Button"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

Its idea of best is often totally whack though. As I had mentioned in the podcast, a default finder window will actually position itself partially off-screen and in the bottm-left-corner of the screen when you click the zoom button.

The response is so unpredictable we just don't ever bother to use it.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: OS X "Maximize" Button
by memson on Wed 12th Aug 2009 10:13 UTC in reply to "RE: OS X "Maximize" Button"
memson Member since:
2006-01-01

The response is so unpredictable we just don't ever bother to use it.


Not on my MacBook. If I open a new finder window (e.g. double click on a volume) I have yet to see it do what you describe. Maybe you are doing something I'm not - maybe the methods we use to open Finder windows differs? No idea.

Reply Score: 2

RE: OS X "Maximize" Button
by Adam S on Wed 12th Aug 2009 12:12 UTC in reply to "OS X "Maximize" Button"
Adam S Member since:
2005-04-01

This is the silliest comment I've ever heard, because you're defending something that makes no sense to begin with. Not only does it behave unpredictably, as Kroc said, but half the time, on my 24" iMac screen, it actually reduces the size of the window, which is moronic for a button that features a "+" sign.

If it's not maximize, what do you call that button? We all know about the "optimal size" crap, but most of us feel it's a joke.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: OS X "Maximize" Button
by puenktchen on Wed 12th Aug 2009 12:23 UTC in reply to "RE: OS X "Maximize" Button"
puenktchen Member since:
2007-07-27

If it's not maximize, what do you call that button?


fit size to content of window / back to last custom size of window

We all know about the "optimal size" crap, but most of us feel it's a joke.


you are not most of us.

the maximize button of windows and it clones is the gui concept which sucks. its sucks so bad that some user don't even get the existence of something called windows after working with this pos-guis for years. yes, really.

ps: if you want the shitty behaviour of windows, use it.

Edited 2009-08-12 12:24 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: OS X "Maximize" Button
by Adam S on Wed 12th Aug 2009 12:26 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: OS X "Maximize" Button"
Adam S Member since:
2005-04-01

fit size to content of window / back to last custom size of window


It does NOT do that, period. In fact, when there is more content than the screen can hold, often, on my Mac, it reduces the size of the window. A second click will return it to the size it was. What do you make of that?

Stop being a sheep and look at it logically, rather than blindly defending Apple's decision. I watch users play with this, and they are perplexed almost 100% of the time, because the button doesn't behave in a way that users expect or want. It's just one more example of Apple saying "we know better what you want."

So, how do I get a window to fit to th screen on a Mac? You simply cannot: usually, you must manually resize it.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: OS X "Maximize" Button
by puenktchen on Wed 12th Aug 2009 12:49 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: OS X "Maximize" Button"
puenktchen Member since:
2007-07-27

In fact, when there is more content than the screen can hold, often, on my Mac, it reduces the size of the window. A second click will return it to the size it was. What do you make of that?


it already was at the maximum size usefull to display the content?

Stop being a sheep and look at it logically, rather than blindly defending Apple's decision.


there are design decision which are really stupid: not merging directories in finder for example. fit to content isn't one of them.

I watch users play with this, and they are perplexed almost 100% of the time, because the button doesn't behave in a way that users expect or want.


because they are used to the braindead behaviour windows or its clones. if you want to cater to all their expectations, you'll have to discard osx. if you don't want to change your habits, keep using windows (or write a hack). why should all other guis become clones of this pos gui?

It's just one more example of Apple saying "we know better what you want."


it's the way i like it. if you don't tough shit.

So, how do I get a window to fit to th screen on a Mac? You simply cannot: usually, you must manually resize it.


why should i want to? why the f--k to should you use windows at all if you maximize everything anyway? and with bigger and bigger screens the maximize functions get more and more silly every day.

ps: oh, bad words are censored.

Edited 2009-08-12 12:51 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: OS X "Maximize" Button
by Adam S on Wed 12th Aug 2009 12:56 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: OS X "Maximize" Button"
Adam S Member since:
2005-04-01

Sometimes, browsing the web on my wife's 13" Macbook requires the entire available area to read effectively. Sometimes, I want to look through ALL the files in a crowded folder - like, say, my Downloads folder - and I prefer to see as many as I possibly can on the screen. Sometimes, when I'm writing code, I don't want the distraction of anything else on screen so I can see as much code as possible.

According to you, I'm "brain dead" for wanting this, and you (and Apple) know better that this is NOT right; a smaller window, holding less content, is actually "ideal." "Tough shit" for me, you say. What a sales pitch!!

Yeah, you're not brainwashed at all.

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: OS X "Maximize" Button
by Kroc on Wed 12th Aug 2009 13:14 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: OS X "Maximize" Button"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

In Apple’s defense, whilst the implementation of the zoom button is a complete mess, I’m really glad that overall, OS X does not encourage you to maximise every damn window like Windows does. Despite having a 1440x900 screen, my web browser _always_ stays at 1024x768 and it’s so much better like that. Exposé and the other window manager features mean having different sized windows scattered around isn’t a problem.

Reply Score: 1

RE[7]: OS X "Maximize" Button
by Adam S on Wed 12th Aug 2009 13:15 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: OS X "Maximize" Button"
Adam S Member since:
2005-04-01

That's not counter to my point. I almost never use maximized windows on the iMac (somtimes, though, I do, like when I'm working in iPhoto or Aperture). The problem is that there is a button whose implementation, I feel, is broken.

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: OS X "Maximize" Button
by puenktchen on Wed 12th Aug 2009 13:18 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: OS X "Maximize" Button"
puenktchen Member since:
2007-07-27

Sometimes, browsing the web on my wife's 13" Macbook requires the entire available area to read effectively. Sometimes, I want to look through ALL the files in a crowded folder - like, say, my Downloads folder - and I prefer to see as many as I possibly can on the screen.


well, at least finder and safari work exactly as you require. could you you explain how you manage both not to show you the maximal amount of content possible when you press the green button?

Sometimes, when I'm writing code, I don't want the distraction of anything else on screen so I can see as much code as possible.


i just tried smultron - it does exactly what you want. which editor doesn't?

According to you, I'm "brain dead" for wanting this,


no, ms is braindead for creating the maximize button. they didn't get the concept of windows. you are just used to it. i'm not because i switched from amiga os to mac os and that's why windows behave wrong from my perspective.

and you (and Apple) know better that this is NOT right; a smaller window, holding less content, is actually "ideal."


it doesn't hold less content, it holds less white space - see above.

"Tough shit" for me, you say. What a sales pitch!!


could it be that apple doesn't sell all of its computers to former windowsusers? should they annoy their userbase just because people used to windows strange ways like it that way?

but it sure would hurt to include an option somewhere.

Yeah, you're not brainwashed at all.


no, actually i'm not.


ps - here you go: http://www.blazingtools.com/downloads.html#RightZoom

happy now?

Edited 2009-08-12 13:21 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: OS X "Maximize" Button
by Adam S on Wed 12th Aug 2009 13:21 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: OS X "Maximize" Button"
Adam S Member since:
2005-04-01

no, ms is braindead for creating the maximize button. they didn't get the concept of windows. you are just used to it.


I see now: so any time anyone wants to maximize a window, it's because Microsoft trained them wrong. Now it all makes sense!

I guess you know better than I do. You win.

Reply Score: 2

Apple -> Walmart in IT
by Envying1 on Tue 11th Aug 2009 22:15 UTC
Envying1
Member since:
2008-04-22

To me, it's just like apple care for Mac, but through iTune (& App Store), Apple is selling lightweight services with songs, apps. All these stuff individually cost less $10/ea wouldn't hesitate you too much, compared with buying a bundle package of OS or Office suites from Microsoft for more than two hundred bucks.

This is a new business model for IT industry, selling cheap but for more. Apple -> Walmart...

First of all, business is business, Apple wants to control it and make sure that they are getting profit. Secondly, we shouldn't expect any big openess from Apple happens in one or two days, because they are not sure whether it works or not, whether it works well or not. Thirdly, Apple also want to build some LA (APSL or EULA), it will take time, but I am sure it will come sometime in the future. Rome can't be built in one day, right?

Reply Score: 1

Maemo
by divide_by_zero on Wed 12th Aug 2009 01:16 UTC
divide_by_zero
Member since:
2009-07-11

When you guys talked about the more open mobile operating systems competing with iPhone you mentioned Palm and Android, but never Nokia's Maemo. It really deserves to be mentioned. It has been around for a lot of time, and Nokia is about to release the first cell-phone equipped tablet based on it. Maybe it will not be a complete iPhone alternative", but surely deserves more attention.

I am listening to the podcast on my N800 right now, downloaded with gPodder while I listened to songs at the same time, all that while I coded in python some scripts to make my system even better and fit to my needs.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Maemo
by memson on Wed 12th Aug 2009 10:17 UTC in reply to "Maemo"
memson Member since:
2006-01-01

When you guys talked about the more open mobile operating systems competing with iPhone you [...] never [mention] Nokia's Maemo.


Maemo is yesterdays technology. It is pretty much dead on the legacy N800 and I believe also N810 won't use Fremantle. Nokia missed the boat by around 5 years. (Yes, I own* an N800, yes I've used Maemo to death, yes the iPhone beats it on almost every level that matters to me.)

* Though N800 just sold on eBay!! YAY!

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Maemo
by divide_by_zero on Wed 12th Aug 2009 16:56 UTC in reply to "RE: Maemo"
divide_by_zero Member since:
2009-07-11

Not sure what you mean by "dead technology". It surfs the web, it send e-mails, does voip calls, plays audio and video files with many different codecs... Seems pretty much alive and kicking to me, what is still confirmed by the fact you managed to sell your N800. I have in fact bought my N800 only recently. Dead is WAP, Gopher, etc (tough I do have a small gopher space and I was very happy to find out I can use Fennec to access it with my N800.)

The next version of Maemo, 5.0, aka Fremantle will not run (not immediately) in N800 or N810, but will run in the devices Nokia will release soon. If it looks dead, perhaps it's because it is still unborn.

The main reason I am writing this message is to make another comment regarding the podcast. Someone said there that he would like to see a forum where iPhone developers and Apple people can get together and talk about the development of applications, and the insiders could give some hints, respecting the limits of what the company would like to reveal.

Well, that scenario actually exists around Maemo. Just visit talk.maemo.org and you will see a quite active forum with users and developers and a number of Nokia people talking about the devices, the current, future and the dead software, and even about alternatives, what includes the iPhone, Android, and Mer, a complete distribution being developed only by users, but with still some support from Nokia.

I am not saying the Nokia internet devices and Maemo are better than anything else, or that everybody should move to it and drop their iPhones. I am just surprised to hear people looking for things that Nokia is offering with Maemo, and completely ignore it. Looks to me you should take a better look at what is going on there.

Maemo deserved a little more attention in this 3 hour podcast, and by that I mean at least mentioning its existence. You talked about windows mobile and Android, but Maemo has something interesting to offer too.

Symbian, on the other hand does look a bit dead for me, at least in the uber-smart devices. It may survive longer in simples devices... The kind of device Apple will probably never develop (unless it's something like the iPhone sHuffle, that calls your contacts randomly.)

And there is the discussion if Fremante will be DOA because of the decision to move to QT, but that's another story.

Edited 2009-08-12 17:05 UTC

Reply Score: 1

kragil
Member since:
2006-01-04

They should just include a Pixel Qi screen(OLPC-like).
http://www.pixelqi.com/products
It has two modes. It can do backlid color video AND no backlight ereader mode that just works in the sun.

But I have written this a few times now and nobody seems to notice ;)

PS. But I heared the tumbleweed too ;)
PPS. Good show, altough you all were way too kind to Apple.

Reply Score: 2

puenktchen Member since:
2007-07-27

They should just include a Pixel Qi screen(OLPC-like).
http://www.pixelqi.com/products


sound promising:

We are working on a variety of projects some of which our customers would like us to keep confidential.

Reply Score: 2

good
by po134 on Thu 13th Aug 2009 18:49 UTC
po134
Member since:
2009-05-15

Liked the podcast and the length is no problem at all, I even enjoy the big podcasts more ;) !

Looking forward to be able to read books on an apple tablet with a proper wikipedia/encyclopedia on it ;)

Reply Score: 1

Mummy Google and Daddy Apple?
by Philip Grant on Thu 13th Aug 2009 19:42 UTC
Philip Grant
Member since:
2008-12-28

Notice that Google are following the same model as Apple in controlling local installation of applications in their new Chrome OS, by not allowing any! Why would they be doing so? To stop security and virus problems. It's simply about making the user experience user proof, because then they can more easily guaranty, "it just works". Users are being shielded. If you don't like it, then you might be in a minority of users who don't mind putting anti-virus and anti-malware software on their phone also. If you like, it's 'discipline' and, unfortunately, the free thinking and the foolish will always complain against this 'parental' control.

Such an intelligent mix of comment from all. A really excellent show. Think you covered most issues and agree with all said. One issue you didn't address was the danger to Apple of them loosing the case against Psystar. If they did, might you end up with the iPhone OS being sold to operate on other companies handsets!? OK, too silly..?

The design ethic, is it perhaps moving to minimise sensuality of the casing as a foil to the blooming of a more established and fully featured operating system? I agree with Thom, Apple now create boring and uninspiring machines. When people pay money, pride in your purchase could be much higher. I feel the design team will always push in some direction and, maybe, after pushing the production techniques and quality, next will be a greater emphasis on form... who knows... in fashion and design there will always be a reaction.

"the hinges have to be dodecahedron and the doors open inwards..." lol brilliant Kroc!

Reply Score: 1

maximize
by TheGreatSudoku on Fri 14th Aug 2009 11:07 UTC
TheGreatSudoku
Member since:
2009-07-28

Apple's GUI is based on NEXT, correct? Did NEXT have "correct" maximize button functionality or does it also display the same weirdness Apple's + button does?

If NEXT did have a maximize function, the argument of being "brainwashed by Microsoft" doesn't hold water. Goes back to the "think different" model of Apple. Sometimes that's a good thing. In this case it seems to be "fixing" something that wasn't broken to begin with. Sometimes industry standards are standards for a reason, in this case the majority of users have use for normal maximize functionality.

A 3rd party developer saw that and put out the app mentioned in this thread. Which seems backwards. The 3rd party companies should be putting out the "think different" functionality. If that functionality catches on and surpasses the existing standard, incorporate it into the next version of your OS.

Like the cliche says, don;t change the lineup when you're winning.

Reply Score: 1

Wireless Charger
by Wes Selken on Sat 15th Aug 2009 01:32 UTC
Wes Selken
Member since:
2009-07-25

Someone is working on the wireless charging (or inductive charging). I think there were a couple of companies trying a viable consumer solution in CES 2008 and 2009. It was only proof of concept at MIT in 2006. Just give it some time.

Reply Score: 1