Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 1st Aug 2005 18:23 UTC
Windows Head of all things Windows at Microsoft, Jim Allchin provides a heads up on the operating system formerly known as Longhorn: "Most of the stuff that we would expect that tech enthusiasts and consumers will be interested in will happen at Beta 2. Beta 1 is not what I would call deeply interesting unless you are a real bithead".
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RE[6]: forget it
by sbenitezb on Tue 2nd Aug 2005 00:07 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: forget it"
sbenitezb
Member since:
2005-07-22

"You don't. But it helps with efficiency, and it's called evolution. Things evolve. If you don't like it, you're welcome to continue using your 600mhz computer with no hardware accelerated desktop. Some of us will enjoy using it though."

Well, that depends on what do you expect about evolution. I don't expect to buy new hardware just because they want to sell more Windows copies. Of course I would enjoy an accelerated desktop, but I don't think title bar transparency, shadows, glare and all that stuff is evolution. I would expect integration, stability, speed, security better than eye-tricks. Not so useful in the end. Sure you will look at it and say: wonderful. But that's not a computer for. It's meant to use it, not to watch it make the tricks.

"What? What does FOSS have to do with what I said? I pointed out than XAML and XUL are quite different (they are), and that XAML will be used by big developers (if you saw the same demos I did, you'd agree)."

Right now, what matters is enterprise development. Enterprise development is headed towards Java, EJBs, LAMP, and .NET.
Businesses don't need to have all that FX-loaded applications. They need simple, easy to use, efficient business applications. That's the way it is. You won't need XAML in the enterprise. Sure you will get tons of XAML applications in download.com, but for desktop use and time wasting.

Big companies, won't get into the only-windows trap. They develop multiplatform applications. XAML won't fit them.


"Yes it does lag behind Linux in some aspects. Vista will [should] be out by the end of 2006, that's not 2 years. I didn't say Linux will stay stagnant either. But you're assuming that whatever Vista does, linux will have matched it by the time it's released. I don't think that's true. Linux will make some great steps by then, by I think Vista will be ahead for a little while."

Well, I don't think Linux should match every thing Vista will/would (who knows, actually) have by the time it's released (if it ever is). What's interesting about your view is that you're talking cheap about Vista, and it just doesn't exist at all. It's a bunch of copied&pasted XP code with some patches and additions and a lot of things left off. It's not and OS right now, it's just another service pack to XP with a different theme and some minor tweaks in UI plus a roadmap of things it will have by then. Yeah, because we all know that MS promises are God's word. How much time did they spent putting all this together? How many years?

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[7]: forget it
by pravda on Tue 2nd Aug 2005 01:18 in reply to "RE[6]: forget it"
pravda Member since:
2005-07-06

Microsoft spent a long time with Longhorn/Vista because of a decision at the executive level to use a number of technologies that Microsoft stole from outside the company. The list of outside technologies was quite extensive, so Microsoft has had a lot of work to do.

In a way it is a good thing as the valuation of these technologies over 10-20 years of use by Microsoft will be rather high. This will drive up the price Microsoft will pay via licensing or pay via court-decided damages.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[7]: forget it
by sappyvcv on Tue 2nd Aug 2005 02:45 in reply to "RE[6]: forget it"
sappyvcv Member since:
2005-07-06

Of course I would enjoy an accelerated desktop, but I don't think title bar transparency, shadows, glare and all that stuff is evolution.

That's possible BECAUSE of the evolution. It's not the evolution itself.

I would expect integration, stability, speed, security better than eye-tricks.

It will have all of that. Different departments work on different areas. Face it, if they didn't make it look pretty, people would bitch that it still looks the same and they didn't even change anything. They would bitch that they're just trying to make more money by changing one or two things, and you know it.

But that's not a computer for. It's meant to use it, not to watch it make the tricks.

Some of the tricks make the user experience better. Some make good visual cues for usability purposes. And some are just to keep people from complaining that they didn't change anything.

Businesses don't need to have all that FX-loaded applications. They need simple, easy to use, efficient business applications. That's the way it is. You won't need XAML in the enterprise. Sure you will get tons of XAML applications in download.com, but for desktop use and time wasting.

You don't know anything about XAML do you? What you're talking about is RAD. Businesses need to be able to develop and deploy applications quickly. XAML will empower them to develop the GUI for these apps MUCH faster than they can now AND to make it look and work better. If you want, I'll link you to a bunch of demos of XAML and show you what I mean. XAML is NOT about making things look pretty. It's about seperating the code and the GUI, making it flexible, and quick to develop.

Well, I don't think Linux should match every thing Vista will/would (who knows, actually) have by the time it's released (if it ever is). What's interesting about your view is that you're talking cheap about Vista, and it just doesn't exist at all. It's a bunch of copied&pasted XP code with some patches and additions and a lot of things left off. It's not and OS right now, it's just another service pack to XP with a different theme and some minor tweaks in UI plus a roadmap of things it will have by then. Yeah, because we all know that MS promises are God's word. How much time did they spent putting all this together? How many years?

That's the most ignorant thing I have read today.

Avalon is just a minor tweak? (In beta1)
Indigo (which is in Beta1 as almost feature complete) is just a minor tweak?
WinFX is a minor tweak?

Read the freakin' list I gave you. Some of those things are pretty freaking big.

If you actually paid attention, you'd know they restarted with the 2003 SP1 core last year, and that's what pushed them back. And that is what they are sticking with now, because they already have a beta out.

Reply Parent Score: 1