Needham & Co. estimates that the “iPod halo” may have attracted up to 400,000 Windows users to the Mac so far this year. In a note to clients, analyst Charles Wolf observed that Apple’s “key drivers” (iPod and the iPod halo effect) “continue to work”. He believes Apple is set for even more growth in the future. Wolf wrote: “The iPod continued to lure Windows users into the Macintosh fold (in the third quarter). Mac unit shipments rose 35 per cent, three times the PC market growth rate.”
Cool…. Very!
BTW…. !st post
I bought an iPod First, and now have a Mac Mini, although related, the iPod did not lead to the mac, the price of the mac opened the door for me, maybe if I can get more time on the mac, I could “Consider” a full time switch.
Been doing Windows for years. Got tired of it. Just bought a PowerBook. Computing is actually fun again. It’s nice to not spend CPU cycles on a virus scanner.
That’s your motivation for switching to a Macintosh? You shouldn’t be allowed to own a computer, let alone a PC or a mac if you’re spending *that* much time on using virus scanners-clearly you have a fundamental lack of computer knowledge
I think that they might be underestimatng the “Spyware Halo” effect. As disgruntled people are tossing there infested WinTel boxes and looking for an alternative to the costly repairs and disinfection software. I know a number of people that are going in that direction as a direct result of spyware/adware infections in their computer.
Hey, I don’t see that this article is listed in RSS… or my Firefox goes crazy
. Anyway, good for Apple 
no, it is in RDF file osnews.com/files/recent.rdf but I still don’t see the headline in my firefox…
Some of the major spyware/malware problems have caused many people I know to switch. I few extra bucks for a Apple is WELL worth the time and hassle trying to keep a windows machine clean. I stopped helping friends and family completely trying to keep them up and running. I just tell them I don’t know windows anymore; get a Mac.
And, yes, I agree with the other poster that computing is fun again.
One overpriced POS attract users to another? Good on them…
The company has record earnings…all led by the iPod, but the computers are also up. This is good news. Don’t know what it means for Linux. I switched to Linux 3 years ago, do my iPod with that, but see a MAC in my future when I’m due for a new machine some day…probably have a mac/linux network instead of the Linux/Windows network that I have now (wife still runs windows on her laptop and I have one install on my big machine for games for my son).
You are all right..people are getting sick of the spyware/virus/repair/crash/bullcrap and some are running away. Good for them
I keep hearing things about spyware/malware … if users weren’t retarded as shit, such problems would not exist. Do you want to install “FREE TOOLBAR FIND THE NEWEST MOVIE TICKETS AND ONLINE GAMES INSTALL NOW FREE FREE FREE!!!”?
Joe Sixpack: “Duuurrrh … *click*”
Use Firefox/Opera, 99% of spyware/malware goes away. Simple as that.
Why are these zealots all like that?
Boo linux is hard you have to use apt-get or whatever to install and you have to read this and that and etc…
Windows is so easy! I just have to install my the ultimate anti-spyware, insert floppy disks during installation to have sata drivers, purchase/know where to get an antivirus, use xp firewall and not say yes to each prompt without reading (or get another firewall by searching, or purchasing one), and bla bla…
I’m not trying to flame, but I think most people are sooo used to dealing with windows’s quirks that they forget that they too had to learn about them and that joe sixpack, the poor thing that shouldn’t use linux because x/y/z is hard, ALSO DOESN’T KNOW HOW TO THOSE THINGS ON WINDOWS!!
Why should I waste time having to deal with these things? I did for years and I got to a point in my life where it wasn’t worth the time that I was dedicating to making my system work the way it should in the first place. I have too many better ways to spend my time (i.e. not in front of a computer) that I can’t afford to learn every new trick… I can’t afford to edit apt.conf every time I need to install a package from some new repository. I can’t afford to worry about managing different dependencies (some from stable and unstable and not compatible with each other).
For those who can, I salute you, and encourage you to keep working on your respective distro in the hope that it may one day be viable for people like me. Just please stop trying to convince me that Linux is ready for the desktop. It isn’t. I’ve tried. There’s a lot of good work that has gone into it, and I’m truly impressed by its progress, but let it stand on its own merit… don’t shove it upon me. Let me decide to come back if and when I think it’s ready.
Right now Linux -is- too hard for the average user.. especially if anything goes wrong. And even for someone who has experience with the OS and understands how things work, such as myself, it just takes too much time to keep things running smoothly and correctly. It’s not a truly viable alternative to Windows and certainly not to OSX. When it is, I may return.
I totally agree with you. Linux as well as BSD is great for server use.
However, if you need to get stuff done either go with Windows or OS X.
I wouldn’t consider myself a neophite by any means, yet ended up with an infested box within a couple of days of installing Windows 2000. Why? Perhaps it is because using both Mac OS and Linux for several years, I got myself into the mindset where I could install whatever software without a worry. Quite frankly, I don’t want to leave that mindset behind and will continue to run Linux and Mac OS.
There are other reasons for leaving Windows behind as well. Just installing the drivers for my box was hell, and the drivers didn’t allow me to fully utilise my hardware (eg. burning CDs and DVDs). That is in sharp contrast to the Mac world, where just about all of your hardware just works. It is also a sharp contrast to the Linux world, where I can pop in an unconfigurable live CD and expect things to just work.
The Windows world has been depending upon the same old stereotypes to support their platform far too long, and the rest of the world has finally started to notice that the competition no longer fits that stereo type. Maybe now Microsoft will pay the price, because the only place where I see Microsoft having the lead is in application support. They will not be able to maintain that lead if other markets become profitable — and Apple is showing that the Mac market can be very profitable.
Mac can be hell just like the PC. There are many people who lost complete drives worth of data because Apple changed something in their Firewire driver, for example.
The quality of the Mac has also gone downhill over the years. There are many reports of horribly noisy machines, pinging power supplies, bad midplane fans, random crashes,etc,etc. Even the “.mac” service is notorious for losing data and downtime.
Check out
http://www.macintouch.com
from time to time and you will the see the significant problems that are troubling Mac users.
Personally I had a Mac that would crash frequently — from multiple times a day to every couple days. I did everything I could to make it work. And one day I upgraded it to OS X Tiger and it was getting a new machine. Stable as a rock, smoother, and slightly faster.
Also for the Mac, there are many programs, including Apple’s that have privacy-invading undocumented “phone homes” in them. You should get the program “Little Snitch” to guard against these programs. iTunes is one of the programs, by the way.
There is no perfect platform. OS X Tiger is the first OS X that I feel compares well with Windows XP and is a fine alternative. Different strengths, different weaknesses. I expect things to get even better for OS X once Apple is moved 100% over to Intel and is not supporting the “Power”PC any longer.
I recently bought a mac mini and I love it. I hate ipods though, they’re for trendy-ass posers.
Whatever the reason though, good for Apple.
I recently bought a mac mini and I love it. I hate ipods though, they’re for trendy-ass posers.
Whatever the reason though, good for Apple.
Agreed. iPods themselves are pretty slick, but there are certainly much more functional mp3 players out there that don’t leave you changed to the awful iTunes program. IMHO, it’s more about flash than anything else.
I also think that the spyware situation is causing more people to migrate to Macs than iPods, and I say more power to them.
Agreed. iPods themselves are pretty slick, but there are certainly much more functional mp3 players out there that don’t leave you changed to the awful iTunes program. IMHO, it’s more about flash than anything else.
Yes, or Apple’s music format. I own an iAudio myself and I can play just about any currently available audio format on it including ogg.
To be fair it’s not only Apple, most mp3 player manufacturers seem intent to lock you in.
Yes, because there is so much content available in OGG that we need to play.
No, it could NEVER be about offering a superior product. It HAS to be about trendiness because that opinion helps justify my player purchase to myself.
I purposely didn’t buy the iPod mini in favor of the Creative Zen simply because it wasn’t an iPod and I hate when a product gets as over hyped as the iPod.
Why are you so touchy about any negativity towards Apple? I couldn’t help but notice all your posts. Religious allegiance to corporations is so strange.
It certinly isn’t about any of us being so “touchy” about anything negative being said about Apple… its when people go out of their way to say something negative… for the sheer sake of saying something negative… and not because there is any validity to their argument.
Agreed. iPods themselves are pretty slick, but there are certainly much more functional mp3 players out there that don’t leave you changed to the awful iTunes program. IMHO, it’s more about flash than anything else.
I have an iPod and also hate iTunes, but there are several free alternatives, such as GTKPod on Linuxland and the Winamp plugin on Windowsland.
I have an iPod and love iTunes.
I’ve used several of the alternative players and don’t like most of their interfaces. That and none of them have a music store built in. Thats really important to me now.
I have an iPod and also hate iTunes, but there are several free alternatives, such as GTKPod on Linuxland and the Winamp plugin on Windowsland
But that’s the issue – why do I need a ‘free alternatives’ to make the damn thing work? Personally, I’d rather use a player that has the ability to be recognized as a mass storage device (like my iAudio players), and then I can use whatever I want. Basically, whether on Windows (2k/XP), Linux, or Mac, I hook it up via USB, and it’s instantly recognized. No drivers, iTunes, or free alternatives required.
“But that’s the issue – why do I need a ‘free alternatives’ to make the damn thing work?”
You shouldn’t. Thankfully… you don’t need to. iTunes works great!
Personally, I’d rather use a player that has the ability to be recognized as a mass storage device (like my iAudio players), and then I can use whatever I want.
The iPod works as a mass storage device as well. I use it all the time to shuttle documents from home to work.
“Basically, whether on Windows (2k/XP), Linux, or Mac, I hook it up via USB, and it’s instantly recognized. No drivers, iTunes, or free alternatives required.”
The iPod works the same way. No need for drivers to use as a mass storage device.
The iPod works the same way. No need for drivers to use as a mass storage device.
So you’re saying the iPod works as mass storage on Windows & Linux as well as Mac, *without* driveres?
Ya, it behaves like any firewire storage device.
This is old news.
One thing for sure is that i would go crazy organizing my files in iTunes. I would definately use good old explorer or whatever file manager (nautilus, konqueror, etc) to organize my music.
Ipods can do that now so thats nice. I still prefer the iRiver because of its color, features (fm radio, microphone, battery life [last longer per charge, and has a longer life], firmware updates [now the ih-40 can play video files, when they were ony meant for pictures]), and of course the price. It has a more traditional design (why is everything designed by apple look like its for hippies on acid….I mean its not bad, but implanting modern art design into computer products gets….sickening)
I also like how it acts just like a hard drive so I can do a lot of things to it (defragging, disk cleanup, checks for bad sectors, partitoning, formating etc.)
The Ipod aint bad and all that, but people should look at the competition though. Its safe to say that apple does have a monopoly in this departmant, so its good to remember the competition
Personally, i like the iPod / iTunes combo because iTunes is the best music manager I have ever come across. Its simply to navigate my music while also having every feature I can conceivably wish for. The iTunes music store (the best store I’ve used thus far) is built into iTunes and it happens to also work on my preferred player. The iPod. I like the iPod because I can easily navigate thousands of songs with only the slightest thumb movement (rather than repeated thumb movements as is required by most other players) the iPod interface is simple, informative and very useful. I like the clean look of the iPod as opposed to other players that seem to have added unnecessary designs without reason. The iPod has more add-on devices than any other on the market so I know that I wont ever be lacking for features that other devices might have. I like the price relative to its feature set and lastly, I’ve come to really like the way the iTunes/iPod combo. handles podcasting.
The other players aint bad and all that, but those pople insisting on buying anything but an iPod should really look at the big picture. The iPod is simply the best deal.
The iRiver has a nice interface also, but the interface on iPod is a highlight for some people (I personally dont like the touchpad feel of the thing).
To say iPod is simply the best deal is more opinion then anything. I have both and tend to thing otherwise. I guess some people like iTunes and thats ok, but id prefer to buy album (call me old fashioned) or do some *gasp illegal downloading gasp*.
And add-on devices are more of a hassle then anything. The more features the device actually has, the better. Most,if not all devices take care of all the features that the ipod and third party products do, weather its with third party, first party, or built into the player. I cant really find any ipod products which allow it to act like a microphone that saves the data as mp3 files withing its hd like the iRiver does.
But i really dont feel like turning this into a back and forth argument. You have your preference and I have mine.
“To say iPod is simply the best deal is more opinion then anything.”
And more people are of the opinion that an iPod is a better deal the iRiver.
“The more features the device actually has, the better.”
I disagree with you. What happens when you put too many functions into a device is that it tends to do none of them well. This is the problem that plauges the iRiver products. If however I need to add recording functionality or a radio etc, I can add these on to my iPod very easily and at little cost. The ideal thing is that the add-ons benefit from the one product does one thing best analogy as well because the add-on makers that create them aren’t trying to cram several different functions into their add-on device. Its the best of both worlds that way.
disagree with you. What happens when you put too many functions into a device is that it tends to do none of them well.
Well, then you basically have iTunes
Not to say that iTunes doesn’t do anything well, but it doesn’t do them well enough to justify the bloat.
The ideal thing is that the add-ons benefit from the one product does one thing best analogy as well because the add-on makers that create them aren’t trying to cram several different functions into their add-on device. Its the best of both worlds that way.
Except for the fact that the iPod costs more than a similar iAudio player with all the features already built-in, including video.
>”disagree with you. What happens when you put too many functions into a device is that it tends to do none of them well.
“Well, then you basically have iTunes
“
I disagree. iTunes does all of its functions well… but then thats because they only pertain to 1 product… which is music listening… (and I suppose also music downloading).
“Except for the fact that the iPod costs more than a similar iAudio player with all the features already built-in, including video.”
You’re neglecting the fact that the player you mention is still the one with the inferior interface. The fact that they added several add ons does not compensate for the inferior interface… which is really what primarly defines a superior MP3 player in most people’s eyes.
I’d bet that increased Mac sales do not translate to nearly the switch level stated. The Mac Mini is a good choice for an additional machine. Many Unix workstation users, BSD, or Linux users have expressed interest in these same forums at switching to Mac. It’s probably a much lower number of people actually dropping their PC in favor of a Mac.
And I think that the increase in Windows PC usage is actually just an add-on to Macs people purchased in the past…. GEEZ… stop trying to spin the news whenever something positive about Apple makes headlines.
I’m wondering how many people didn’t switch, but instead “Added” a mac to their stable. Personally I run ubuntu on the desktop and use an ibook for the lappy ..Like the poster above who bought the mac mini, I wonder how many of those there were?
I’m one of those. I run Fedora Core 4 on the desktop, and added an iBook laptop a few months ago. I got the iBook because it was the smallest laptop I could find in my price range, not because it was a Mac.
I prefer Fedora Core 4 slightly to everything else, but it really doesn’t matter which OS I run. I feel equally comfortable in just about any of them.
I switched to a PowerBook in March not because I had an iPod (I still don’t own one), but because I was sick and tired of fighting to make things work.
I gave up on Windows and moved to Linux for about a year, then moved to FreeBSD for about two years, and finally decided to make the move to the Mac. I’ve never been happier with a computer/OS. Things work the way they’re supposed to much more often than on any of the other platforms I’ve used (though FreeBSD was great at the non-GUI level; I just got frustrated with Gnome and KDE).
I still use XP at work, and though I don’t hate every minute of it, I’ve taken to hooking up my Powerbook at the office and using Synergy (synergy2.sf.net) to use both systems at once. It lets me do as much as I possibly can under OSX and the rest (only the essential stuff) under Windows.
With the PB, I can just sit down and work. The OS compliments the applications and doesn’t get in the way. I have no need to tinker, since things work properly. I’m far more productive than I’ve ever been, and I enjoy it…. that’s why I made the switch.
While I am not a big fan of Mini-Microsoft, choice is good. OS X Tiger is a fine alternative to Windows XP.
If 400,000 trend lemmings are helping keep Apple afloat while it transitions to Intel, all the better.
However, I do hope that when Apple moves to Intel that Apple hardware will not be so overpriced.
“If 400,000 trend lemmings are helping keep”
Trend lemmings?
Why can’t they just like it for it being the superior product that it is rather than they following trends?
“I do hope that when Apple moves to Intel that Apple hardware will not be so overpriced.”
Its important that you recognise that Apple hardware typically costs *LESS* than a comperably equipped PC (in hardware and operating system and software)
The problem Apple has is not price… its options. Apple has a limited selection as compared to the total PC marketplace. As a result, you are forced to buy more and pay more when you buy a Mac… as compared to being given the option to buy less and spend less when buying a PC.
Trend lemmings?
Why can’t they just like it for it being the superior product that it is rather than they following trends?
If you’re referring to iPods, it’s because they are not superior products. I own 2 1GB flash iAudio players, and I wouldn’t trade either one of them for any number of 60GB iPod players, even if the iPods were the same size and had the same battery life, unless I were allowed to sell them
>”Trend lemmings?
>>Why can’t they just like it for it being the superior product that it is rather than they following trends? “
“If you’re referring to iPods”
Actually, the comment was in reference to the 400,000 new Windows users that switched to Macintosh, but the superior product could conceivably also apply to the iPod as well depending on what most consumers deem makes a superior product.
“it’s because they are not superior products.”
If we use the public’s desire for specific functionality and usability as the barometer that gauges what is and what is not superior than yes, the iPod can indeed be regarded as superior.
“own 2 1GB flash iAudio players, and I wouldn’t trade either one of them for any number of 60GB iPod players”
And I’ve owned several an Archos Jukebox players as well as a lesser-known flash player and I wouldn’t trade my iPod for any of those players I had in the past nor any that I see on the market now.
If you’re referring to iPods, it’s because they are not superior products. I own 2 1GB flash iAudio players, and I wouldn’t trade either one of them for any number of 60GB iPod players, even if the iPods were the same size and had the same battery life, unless I were allowed to sell them
The point is they are superior products in thier markets. In terms of easy of use seemlessness and audio/build quailty. You wouldn’t trade a flash player for a harddisk based one… what an ingenius revelation!!! Thanks.
The iPod is a trendy product, like the Sony Walkman.
It is hard to say it is “superior” to the other music players that have emerged on the market. It is fair to say it is “one of the best”.
Other players offer more features, more formats, and more audio quality. Some of them also work with different/more content. And many ofter far simpler and cheaper battery replacement options vs. iPod.
Apple does have the most coherent offering and is arguably the most mature offering. As the overall market matures, Apple will have to do more and more to maintain brand leadership as functionality and content availability become commoditized.
“It is hard to say it is “superior” to the other music players that have emerged on the market. It is fair to say it is “one of the best”.”
Yes, there are countless reviews on the internet that compare the iPod to other MP3 players based on quantifiable assets and yet the iPod continually comes out ahead as the superior option.
“Other players offer more features, more formats, and more audio quality.”
And those players that may offer some of those assets are lacking in so many more such as playing the important file formats that people use most, having a lower size and weight and also having a better interface. In the end, the consumer dictates whats most important and it appears as if the consumer has spoken.
“Apple will have to do more and more to maintain brand leadership as functionality and content availability become commoditized.”
Their track record thus far gives us no reason that they wont.
If you look at the current reviews (vs. years ago), then you will see that the iPod is “one of the best”. Bill Machrone’s reviews on audio quality have pointed out the shoddy sound quality that plagues many more recent iPods (but perhaps not as much the very latest models). Apple’s iPods have difficulty driving many types of headphones, even today. Mainly this is because in many but not all of the iPod models, Apple used a very cheap design and bargain basement quality parts.
More importantly, if you look at USER FEEDBACK on these reviews, you will see that there are issues with the iPod. There are quality problems. There are headphone issues. There are many many iTunes compatibility issues. It is not the nirvana that you imply.
Do I need to remind you of the huge public shaming that was required to FORCE Apple to provide customers with a reasonable (still expensive) replacement battery?
http://www.ipodsdirtysecret.com/
This battery issue was the real Apple at work. This is the company that hardcore hates its customers. It is part of the shared cruelty experience that binds Mac “believers” together.
Apple has shown time and time again they can make an interesting new product. And every time — 100% — they have shown the world they can be TOO GREEDY and lose nearly 100% of the market share of this new product.
Thus while iPod is trendy today (as many previous Apple products have been in the past), BASED ON FACTS vs. IDEOLOGICAL TRUE BELIEVERISM, I would not have any great confidence Apple will be a leading player in this market in anything but the nearest of futures.
f you look at the current reviews (vs. years ago), then you will see that the iPod is “one of the best”. Bill Machrone’s reviews on audio quality have pointed out the shoddy sound quality that plagues many more recent iPods (but perhaps not as much the very latest models). Apple’s iPods have difficulty driving many types of headphones, even today. Mainly this is because in many but not all of the iPod models, Apple used a very cheap design and bargain basement quality parts.
Either you have completely misuderstood Machrone’s playertests or are deliberately contorting facts.
All Machrone’s tests reveal is that the ipod mini can’t drive a 40hz signal cleanly. He claims that there is pretty much no problem with anyother part of the frequency range.
He test a more recent ipod mini and claimed it was improved over the original mini.
If you read the article he claimed that all but the ipod shuffle failed his 40hz squarewave test even the ipod competitors!!!
This battery issue was the real Apple at work. This is the company that hardcore hates its customers. It is part of the shared cruelty experience that binds Mac “believers” together.
what nonsense!! I just canceled an oreder with dell because of aweful customerservice before even shipping the product. My dealings with Apple have been very pleasureable and so have everybody I know.
Apple has shown time and time again they can make an interesting new product. And every time — 100% — they have shown the world they can be TOO GREEDY and lose nearly 100% of the market share of this new product.
Right!!! the Battery issue caused Apple to loose all of the digital music player market. Some strong stuff you were smoking, mate.
Thus while iPod is trendy today (as many previous Apple products have been in the past), BASED ON FACTS vs. IDEOLOGICAL TRUE BELIEVERISM, I would not have any great confidence Apple will be a leading player in this market in anything but the nearest of futures.
The ipod has been trendy for the past 4 years now. Long time for a mere fad don’t you think….
Here is a comparison of the iriver H10 and ipod mini 6gb… draw your own conclusions.
http://machrone.home.comcast.net/playertest/distortion.htm
“For comparison, here’s the new iPod mini 6GB, which shows a nice, flat frequency response curve. Although it’s still a bit weak in low bass, it’s at least as good as other hard disk iPods, and noticeably better than the first-generation iPod mini.”
“The iPod had this excellent performance on every EQ setting, showing proper attention to the signal processing.”
A Mac certainly costs more if you look at the hardware costs. The Reality Distortion Field is strong in you.
Software – yeah, perhaps Windows costs more if the people who use Windows usually paid the full retail price for all their software, and bought all the Windows equivelents for all the included Mac software. But nope, it’s called burning CDs! And there is plenty of freeware out there for Windows.
I use Debian and Ubuntu GNU/Linux myself, and there is plenty of no purchase price software for it.
“A Mac certainly costs more if you look at the hardware costs.”
If you ONLY look at hardware then yes… you are correct. But a Mac comes with so much more than just the hardware.
“The Reality Distortion Field is strong in you.”
It only looks that way to those of you with the rose colored glasses.
“Software – yeah, perhaps Windows costs more if the people who use Windows usually paid the full retail price for all their software, and bought all the Windows equivalents for all the included Mac software. But nope, it’s called burning CDs! And there is plenty of freeware out there for Windows.”
And there is a lot of freeware for the Macintosh as well. Regardless of that point. the freeware (let alone most of the payware) doesn’t come close to matching the software which comes with a Mac. Windows equivalents to iLife cost approximately $250 – $300.
“I use Debian and Ubuntu GNU/Linux myself, and there is plenty of no purchase price software for it.”
I use Linux too and thoroually enjoy using it on a day to day basis but I do recognize that a lot of the free consumer apps aren’t yet up to par with software on Windows and OS X.
Yeah, and you said the Mac hardware and the software are less expensive. Then you said PC hardware was less expensive because there was more competition, though you tried to spin it as just about competition. Now you sprout off about it being a freaking bundle. Make up your mind!
Did you read the part about pirating? It only costs $250-300 if you buy it in a store. People who buy windows are more likely to burn it. How many people do you know that went out and paid for all that software? How many people do you think need Garageband, for instance? Could you name some necessary software for running windows that comes with Mac that has no equivelent software for free on Windows?
“Yeah, and you said the Mac hardware and the software are less expensive. Then you said PC hardware was less expensive because there was more competition”
No, you misunderstood. Macs are less expensive than comperably equipped PCs (in both hardware and software and operating system). I group them in that way because thats the only way you can buy a Mac…. with all coupled together. If you are ONLY comparing hardware then the Mac will be more expensive because Apple requires you to buy an operating system and software. My final statement was that PCs allow you to buy less and therefore spend less. Macs require you to buy more so youare paying more. Its when you match a PC to a Macs specs that the PC is more expensive.
I admit it. I was one of those people who boasted that Apple was dead. I said that Apple could never catch up to (let alone surpass) Windows, I said that the iPod was going to be a failure and that Apple could never gain any significant market share or install base to affect their overall numbers. I’ve been officially proven wrong on every point and Apple’s continued massive growth is making me feel like a jackass.
Let me speak on behalf of all the trolls (Yes, I admit that this is what I was) that we were wrong and that anyone who makes such bold predictions about Apple in the future, should be totally disregarded.
I bought an iPod last year and this year I’m getting a PowerBook. It’s partly because I like the iPod, but mostly because I like the look of osx, need a laptop and want to try something different.
It’s not exactly a windows replacement as I’ve been using fedora as my primary desktop for nearly a year but I do plan to actually remove my last windows installation now.
I’ve just happened to notice over the last year that 90% of laptops I see people using on my campus and in various coffee shops around town are macs – the most common reason given for why they have a mac – “they look cooler and the screen is pretty”
Thanks for making that point known. We all know (hope?) that you’re not trying to push the mistaken agenda of many trolls in this forum that OS X is solely only about aesthetics to the exclusion of superior functionality.
My meantion of iPods wasn’t that people were moving to MACS because of them (as I think that the article implies) but that the Apple Earnings has been led by them. In the long run, it’s going to be the computers and software that will keep Apple healthy as the “iPod” market will saturate, I think.
If and when I get a MAC, it won’t be because of the iPod, it will be because of the MAC. I’ve been pretty much donw with Windows anyway, so it won’t be a switch FROM something to the other, it will be an ADDITION TO the other (in this case Linux).
I am totally excited by what is happening (finally) out there…even though the dominance of Windows won’t go away, there are signs of it’s erosion and that can only be healthy in a competative market. I think that Apple has a lot of headroom and won’t even croud out Linux…they BOTH have a lot of room to work.
But as Jason Perlow just wrote in Linux Magazine this month, Linux is put on notice (by Apple)…get your house in order.
I love Linux, but don’t have any sort of native attraction to it if I find something better….
Who said anything about Linux? I was pointing out that spyware problems on Windows are not the fault of Windows, but the fault of users. If you were root on a Linux machine, and some program asked you to install XYZ where XYZ was bad poo, your box would be owned as well.
Re: Tyr — Stop spreading ignorance. The iPod can play AAC, MP3 CBR, MP3 VBR, WAV, AIFF, Audible, and the Apple Lossless format. No one is “forcing” you into anything. No, it doesn’t support OGG. Cue the 5 people in the world who care.
windows is insecure by default. fresh windows installation doesn’t require password for administrator. Linux on the other hand dosn’t install without password and warns you when your password is weak.
I have windows xp laptop and I have very strong password for my user account. couple months ago I was shocked to realize that anyone could access my computer because the administrator (root) has no password. this is despite the fact that my user account which is administrator too has a strong password.
No one is “forcing” you into anything. No, it doesn’t support OGG. Cue the 5 people in the world who care.
*Raises hand*
Although I admit to buying a player that doesn’t do ogg either.
Three people I know bought a Mac and got rid of Windows. Everyone is really happy and asked themselfs why they didn’t do it a year ago. I run OS X personally. I hope this will somehow presure Microsoft and all other windows developers to build a better applications. Competition is good.
Who knows we might switch to Windows in 5 years, but for now I’m happy with my Mac.
and have technical inclinations – your choice is Linux.
If you have money, obviously you can buy a Mac and pay the full price for Photoshop, Macromedia, etc …
We all know 90% of Windows users run Pirate software.
They are not easy to find on Mac (or are they? I wouldn’t know).
Linux offers you a free operating system, 10’000 free software.
Whether Photoshop is 1000x better than Gimp, whether Corel Draw (mind you not available on Mac anymore) is 100x better than Inkscape – that is debatable.
When it comes to sheer survival leading to genius – you can achieve *anything* (including full-featured movies) by using nothing but pure GNU tools.
If you introduce a kid to Linux from the very start and another to Windows (or even Mac) – which one will be the brightest after 10 years?
I try but fucking stupid parents won’t listen to me.
I was a longtime windows user and have grown tired of constantly caring for those machines. I don’t want to work on computers when i get home from work, working on computers. I want to have fun. So, i have linux controlling my home network, file share, printing share and firewall and OS X as my frontend desktop. The only time I have to work on this set up is when I am updgrading the OS, and that does not take any time at all. Windows has lost it. However, i do keep a laptop around for the occasional game that I can’t paly on Linux or Apple.
Of course once everyone switches to Apple/Mac won’t M$ still maintain overlord status by selling products to Apple/Mac users on Mac hardware and x86?
I see through the smoke, it’s all just more hype to lessen attention regarding Linux.
^ <– All in my opinion –> ^
>Maybe not a switch?
I know many windows users … about 10% have switched, and another 10% are waiting for the intel models (so they can run some windows only app in wine or via dual boot). 50% of my friends have iPods and love them with another 10 complaining that they wish they had not bought competitors before the shuffle came out. Not sure if it’s apples halo or microsofts pitch fork, but something is making them switch.
As for linux users – everyone i know only uses linux servers – they do not switch as much as replace their “terminals” with macs. I do not think there is much of a desktop linux crowd to switch and the rest are Windows switchers … Linux is still a (great) server platform and most linux switchers simply discover that the mac is up to the same task, so why have to deal with both – just go mac.
>No Halo For me
It is not apple who is “locking you in” it is the record companies. They are demanding DRM. Apple unlike that other group (out of redmond) went with an open format – AAC is mp4. The only thing that is propritary is the DRM … if you are going to pay for your music then you will have to be “locked in” – just like Microsoft, sony and napster does. The differance is they wil lall use truly proprietary formats. If you steal your music, then the iPod is just as capable of playing mp3 and AAC (without DRM) files as any other option out there. They just do it better.
The bottom line is Apple makes great products – people are buying iPods at a rate that is unbelievable. It makes them at least notice Apple’s other products and wonder if they are of the same quality – that is the Halo. Of course once they compare the experiance with their windows experiance, they may discover there is a bigger halo around the macs.
I think it’s partly the Linux Halo that achieved the switchers.
Think about it: most people who stuck to x86 always considered Macs as too much of a fringe-platform. Too small user base, too small developer base. Wintel had all the cool new games and numerically more big applications.
Then Linux came around, and game-designers began porting to Linux (Unreal Tournament, Doom 3), and subsequently, because they were porting anyway, also to the Mac (Doom 3).
Linux had us considering alternate platforms at a time when 95% of us were Windows users. And then we found out Macs actually were an alternative too, after Linux turned out not-desktop ready for most of us.
“Then Linux came around, and game-designers began porting to Linux (Unreal Tournament, Doom 3), and subsequently, because they were porting anyway, also to the Mac (Doom 3).”
Thats rich. You think that because they were portintg anyways… why not prt for Macintosh? Pahlease. Game developers had been porting the high profile games for Macintosh all the while anyways. it had nothing to do with Linux’s growth. While its true that Linux and Mac market share may be similar… the number of Linux installations has more to do with server installs than consumers who would otherwise be interested in playing games on the desktop. The desktop is where the Macintosh retains the majority of its user-base. So, as far as game-playing is concerned, there are much more Mac users buying games than Linux users.
I know i can play more games on linux then on mac =) (yay for cedega). And i believe that the number of people who bought linux for gaming is rougly equal to the number of people who bought macs for gaming which is roughly equal to zero.
Its hard to do ports for windows because its on the PPC architecture.
The switch to intel is bigger then people think, gameplaying will be as common on macs as they are on windos, but itll prolly just offset the loss apple will get from any major architecture shift.
For all the bozos saying there is something better than an iPod and ITunes name it.
iRiver > iPod
I got both and the iRiver is just better.
I’ve used both and would disagree with you.
which iriver player you used? I currently have an h-120 along with a 4th gen ipod
bleh an opinion is an opinion.
I also think the creative labs players (Zen) blow ipod away (even though you need seperate software for that). But i dont own that so I wont make any official opinion on that. The sound quality on those are good.
For all the bozos saying there is something better than an iPod and ITunes name it.
Well, if you like iTunes, then nothing. But for many of us iTunes is exactly what makes iPods suck. Maybe the integration is bitching on Macs, but for PCs, not so well.
Personally, I’m surprised that anyone would say that. I use iTunes on my PC as does practically every other person in my college dormitory. I can’t find a single person who can say anything bad about it.
Your comment leads me to believe that you may be one of the Apple detractors that one of the earlier posters talked about.
Personally, I’m surprised that anyone would say that. I use iTunes on my PC as does practically every other person in my college dormitory. I can’t find a single person who can say anything bad about it.
Fire iTunes up and play an audio file, then press CTRL+ALT+DEL and look at your RAM/system resources – ’nuff said.
Your comment leads me to believe that you may be one of the Apple detractors that one of the earlier posters talked about.
Not an Apple detractor – just an iPod/iTunes detractor
“Fire iTunes up and play an audio file, then press CTRL+ALT+DEL and look at your RAM/system resources – ’nuff said. “
And using more resources than you deem acceptable makes iTunes usability less functional how?
“it’s because they are not superior products.”
I have to use all the platforms. If i had to declare one as superior it would be the mac. Though you can buy very nice x86 hardware, even the best just rises to parity with the mac. (I can’t speak about the mp3 players, the Ipod is all i have owned – it was the first to be worth buying from a features standpoint). Linux is very stable, though marginally usable on the desktop. Windows has good usability on the desktop, but lacks stability for a server.
The mac has the best of both worlds – it has all the stabilty (and open source software) as Linux. It has a great desktop experiance, so from that standpoint it is clearly superior.
However if the program that you need/want the most is only available on Windoews – then windows is superior (unless it can run with WINE). The intel move may be a step backwards in processor design it is a step forward for the switcher!
“However, I do hope that when Apple moves to Intel that Apple hardware will not be so overpriced.”
Only if you steal all your software and are happy with the $400 bargin basment stuff and spill your coke on your computer every other year.
However if you build compraable hardware (Add fire wire, upgrade video card to a middle of the road card and buy (not steal) XP pro to get a closed to equivlent OS then the PC catches or passes the mac’s price.
Of course the average mac user gets 2 to 3 times the useful life from their mac, so uless you have a habit of destrying your systems before they die or become obsolete, the mac will cost much less over time.
My first mac did go obsolete arounf 1995, but it still works great today – it is 20 years old. My oldest running PC is 3 years old – and already aruably obsolete!
Like most things, lower sticker price does not mean lower cost. You do usually get what you pay for.
This is where Apple’s next big growth (don’t think the cell business will amount to much) will come from.
I can’t wait for the day I can use iTunes to stream HD movies to my monster Sony Hi-Def TV.
I guess the people that are too incompetent to use a router that blocks ports, use a firewall, and use Firefox should switch to Mac.
The rest of us that have a brain don’t have malware or spyware on windows.
Sometimes you need to disable routers and firewalls for some web sites.
The fact that Windows requires it at all shows the problems with Windows.
I really wish you hadn’t made such a trollish comment such as that.
I am just waiting for the Mac prices in India to fall to get my hands on my first Mac. Right now a Mac mini box costs around 30,000 indian rupees. However, I expect that with the advent of Intel macs, it is going to drop.
I own an IPod mini and the experience with it has been great, a relevation. Got to agree that it has influenced my decision to switch to a Mac.
Anyway, I am not switching from Windoze, rather from Linux, since I have been a Linux desktop user since 2000.
“However, I expect that with the advent of Intel macs, it is going to drop.”
Curious… why would you think that an Intel-based Mac would cost less then a PowerPC-based Mac. Macs already cost less than comperably equipped PCs and PPC chips cost the same as Intel chips so the prices should be very similar to what they are today.
I meant revelation, not relevation. Small typo 🙂
Those 400,000 Windows to Mac users are expected to switch back to Windows after Longhorn is released.
This was not reported in the article.
And then switch back yet again when they see Leopard.
I’ve switched to my mini after getting my iPod.
And when you read all the “new” feature that should be included in Longhorn, all of them are already in OS X 10.4.2 So why wait? Add iLife and it’s complete.
Windows is probably the only way to go if you’re a heavy gamer but for everything else, Mac and OS X do a much better job. Without any virus, malware or spyware. Hey, even Microsoft Office Mac 2004 is better than Office on XP…. !!!
Anyway, I am not switching from Windoze, rather from Linux, since I have been a Linux desktop user since 2000.
I’m switching from Linux to Mac too once the intel versions come out.
i switched to a mac last year – from PC. but from linux, not from windows. my next computer will definitly be a mac again. it’s the OS which made me switch and keeps me there.
Fewer things could matter less to someone’s intelligence than what OS their computer runs.
If you are curious, and driven to learn, you’ll find ways to learn anything you’d want on any OS.
Nobody has mentioned that Windows has become just plain BORING anymore. It’s old, Longhorn seems like a bust and never coming (and what I have seen is pretty much new eye candy on the same old crap) and that the MAC and Linux are fun and exciting, regardless of any shortcomings…
Being running Windows 2000 and later XP since year 2000. Never installed a virus scan, until a few months ago used IE (now FF) and even was running my system as an admin all the time, which I know I shouldn’t have.
The only things I did was install a firewall (Zone Alarm for 2000, and windows firewall for XP), regularly updated the system (handled automatically by autoupdate) and never installed any questionable programs/plugins/activeX.
The machine is on 24/7, connected to the internet all the time and the CPU is always loaded at 100% doing a distributed computing project.
NEVER HAD ANY PROBLEMS. System never locked up, seen blue screen of death only once (with the error in the sound driver module) and the only time the machine is rebooted is when newly installed system updates require that.
To me this is a tribute to the stability of XP if properly operated and timely updated. Macs are probably very nice, but it’s ultimate the users who mostly determine how secure a system is. And if they failed to act secure with XP, I don’t see how they will do any better with Macs once hacker start paying attention to that platform.
“Being running Windows 2000 and later XP since year 2000. Never installed a virus scan, until a few months ago used IE (now FF) and even was running my system as an admin all the time, which I know I shouldn’t have. ”
I have been running three Linux boxes on my Intel machine (yeah, I am a Linux nut) – Mandrake 10.1, Fedora Core x (x is latest version), and Ubuntu for 3 months. Before that various versions of Linux – I have tried almost all of them except Gentoo perhaps.
I have not enabled any firewall on any of my Linux boxes. My machine is 24/7 connected to Internet. Never faced a problem so far. No antivirus either. No BSOD either 😉
I think you are one of the lucky Windoze users out there, who have been spared some of the virulous virus attacks. Probably cuz of your firewalls and maybe you are careful while browsing the web. Hey, but with Linux you will be more relaxed, since the chance of infection is feeble with Linux.
Regarding your 100% CPU usage, I doubt most of it is taken by Windoze “System Idle processes”, not your distributed computing project. Most of these projects, assuming you are running one like SETI@home crunch numbers only when the system is inactive, so I doubt your statement. Unless, you are into something that actually runs in the background.
The DC project runs on Idle (lowers possible) priority, meaning that it gets whatever CPU cycles are left after satisfying all other processes with higher priorities. The total CPU usage is always 100%. The CPU usage by the DC project is 100 minus whatever is used by other processes.
“System Idle Process” is a counter which shows how much idle CPU cycles are available, it doesn’t actually use those cycles. If “System Idle Process” shows 98%, look at the CPU Usage graph and you will see that only 2% of the CPU are used.
“System Idle Process” is a counter which shows how much idle CPU cycles are available, it doesn’t actually use those cycles. If “System Idle Process” shows 98%, look at the CPU Usage graph and you will see that only 2% of the CPU are used.
Oh really? Then how come my Win 2K system at work always shows 100% CPU usage even in the CPU usage graph (Task Manager) when I open it? I don’t see any process taking 100% CPU except the so called “System Idle Processes”.
Please englighten.
System Idle Process = Your system is idle. If its showing 100% cpu usage on the graph…then your comp is messed up
Here is a good explanation of what System Idle Process is: http://www.osnn.net/forum/showthread.php?t=783
If your CPU Usage graph shows 100% while the System Idle Process “uses” 100%, then your graph is broken. Does it ever show anything other than 100?
Oh really? Then how come my Win 2K system at work always shows 100% CPU usage even in the CPU usage graph (Task Manager) when I open it? I don’t see any process taking 100% CPU except the so called “System Idle Processes”.
Immediately after the opening Task manager diplays 100%, because its opening takes 100% of cpu for some amount of time:) After some seconds cpu usage falls back to normal level – 1-2%, if you don’t have any background tasks (like SETI) active.
If you see constant 100% cpu graph and System Idle is showing you about 90-100% – you have something messed up in your Windows or in Task manager itself.
Oh really? Then how come my Win 2K system at work always shows 100% CPU usage even in the CPU usage graph (Task Manager) when I open it? I don’t see any process taking 100% CPU except the so called “System Idle Processes”..
Because your machine has been ownez and is busy sending spam to everyone without a spam filter in the world.
“Regardless of that point. the freeware (let alone most of the payware) doesn’t come close to matching the software which comes with a Mac. Windows equivalents to iLife cost approximately $250 – $300. ”
Uh huh, and four out of the five apps that come with iLif e the average person isn’t even going to use. As with a pathetic office suite like AppleWorks. Meanwhile, you’re working on a slow, underpowered machine unless you sprang for a Powermac.
“and four out of the five apps that come with iLif e the average person isn’t even going to use.”
I agree… only four apps are useful, but only agree with you because there are only four apps in iLife. As for those four though, they are very useful.
As with a pathetic office suite like AppleWorks.”
AppleWorks isn’t an office suite. Its a “works” software package similar to Microsoft works.
“Meanwhile, you’re working on a slow, underpowered machine unless you sprang for a Powermac.”
Not slow or underpowered. A powerMac is only necessary for high-end or ultra-high end comuting tasks.
“Use Firefox/Opera, 99% of spyware/malware goes away.”
Quite the exaggeration. Newsflash. There are plenty of sites which don’t require you to click on anything for spyware to install itself. And while there methods for dealing with it, it doesn’t changed the fact that Windows is swiss cheese, that even punk script kiddies can bring down in no time.
“”However, I expect that with the advent of Intel macs, it is going to drop.”
Then you know nothing of Apple. Sticking it to people, while shorting them on hardware and pushing software on them that they don’t need is how they make that respectable profit. If they were priced fair, they’d be out of business. Oh, but they’ll throw in Nanosaur just for fun.
Will somebody mod this troll down please?
<Will somebody mod this troll down please?[/i]
Oh dear god, Slashdot culture has set in.
“Apple has a limited selection as compared to the total PC marketplace. As a result, you are forced to buy more and pay more when you buy a Mac… as compared to being given the option to buy less and spend less when buying a PC.”
Which is exactly what I tried to explain to you that last time there was an Apple thread. So, if you are forced to by more and and pay more when you buy a Mac, then the problem is indeed price.
But you were saying that they cost more… which implies cost more than comperably equipped PCs… which is not true.
I love my PowerBook, I love Tiger. Expose, Dashboard, Automator, Spotlight – these things really do make me more productive. Along with other elements such as QuartzExtreme and usability features made possible with Cocoa, the environment becomes fun as well.
There are lots of Mac Zealots out there (myself included) that need to tone down the rhetoric a couple ‘o notches. We no longer have to worry about our platform of choice dying off, as Apple is firing on all cylinders these days.
If you haven’t given it a look, please do so, I think you’ll find Tiger to be an exceptional OS….
If ever I’ve genuinely fallen into the zealot category, it was only because I hate to see my preferred platform denigrated by people so insecure about their plaform choice that they feel the need to detract from anything remotely positive relating to Apple. When such people go to such extreems to make Apple look bad, it may sometimes be necessary to go to the opposite extreme to offer balance.
yup
“If you’re referring to iPods, it’s because they are not superior products. I own 2 1GB flash iAudio players, and I wouldn’t trade either one of them for any number of 60GB iPod players, even if the iPods were the same size and had the same battery life, unless I were allowed to sell them
”
More assinine comments. iPods are superior products, in many peoples’ eyes. Obviously. Sure it comes down to opinion, but then so does your statement about iAudio crap.
Last time I looked, more people were buying iPods than iAudio devices.
It is possible for the public to speak with their wallets with some other reason than falling to good marketing by Apple.
If a product sucks, it sucks. People won’t buy it. The iPod clearly has a couple fans, enough to warrant its further success.
Alas, my iPod Mini 6gig cannot play ogg…..somehow, I manage to carry on.
Just because more people buy something, doesnt mean its better.
We know more people buy pc’s and windows then macs…..I guess that means windows products are superior =P
Btw I hate itunes. graphically it clashes with the rest of my system =D
The more people buy something does indeed indicate that it is preferred by users.
Lest you or anyone forget though, Windows did not achieve dominance by user preference. It was the operating system that was automatically installed on the PC in the first place. Its also important to remember that Microsoft used illegal business practices to keep competators away.
So the preference by usage actually does apply to all products except for those that achieved that dominance by roading the coat tails of other businesses or using illegal business practices.
“Mac unit shipments rose 35 per cent, three times the PC market growth rate.”
Which means they what, still shipped less than 5% the number of PC’s shipped to market?
I’m not saying that’s a bad thing, but one really needs to watch how people spin statistics, as well as meaningless numbers like this – especially numbers that only represent one quarter… Which isn’t even OVER yet. They are talking past tense about something that hasn’t even happened yet. (unless they are doing that goofy accounting “Let’s do the quarters three months off from when the actual year is” garbage.)
Besides, August is the make or break for computer sales with back to school (Traditionally one of the Mac’s strongest seasons, although it’s been sliding down since it seems the schools themselves jumped ship). Wait for August and September for MEANINGFUL numbers, instead of quoting numbers during what is effectively the ‘slow time’ for sales.
Yes, please question the numbers anyway you can.
The more Apple disproves our previous comments that Apple could never regain sales… let alone grow faster than the total PC marketplace, just makes us look that much more out of touch.
the halo effect that dominates computing today is the one that caused people to use DOS on their IBM style P.C. and caused corporations to buy cheap clones thus incurring immense T.C.O. vs macintosh; the name ibm brainwashed the market into assuming backwards trash was good.
I wouldn’t buy a portable player that didn’t handle OGG. OGG sounds better at the same bitrate, or sounds the same at a much lower bitrate. I can chose to have much better sounding tracks taking the same space, or I can have many more tracks which sound the same. I rip all my CDs to OGG, and so does everyone I know.
I’ve read several reports that say that ogg and AAC were comperable at low bit rates. The iPod’s inability to play Ogg (or rather vorbis if we want to be picky) isn’t a big loss technically speaking.
Ogg takes too much processing power to decode, an will drain your battery faster. It’s inefficient.
I don’t think we’re missing much
Seems to me that IBM may have been wrong in thinking that Apple wasn’t worth the effort to put more resources on their chip designs. If Apple continues this trend, they (IBM) could have been selling Apple more chips that XBOX and Sony in a few years.
– Mark
When it comes to something like an mp3 player, where you are not locked into buying any brand in particular (especially true for Win users) yet more people still buy the iPod than any other brand, then yes, it is an indicator as to whether or not the public deems a product “good” or not.
Sorry. I could have bought anything I wanted, and I bought an iPod. Clearly I am not the only one who feels this way, otherwise Apple wouldn’t own this market.
Yes, the iRiver is neat, the iAudio is cool. But it comes down to the user “experience” and the interface, to which no one else can touch Apple at this point in time.
If you think the mass majority of people give two squirts about how much crap they can pack into an mp3 player like video, ogg, blah blah, you’re wrong. they don’t. Again, see iPod sales figures.
I find it amazing people like to say “well sales numbers don’t say a product is good”.
Well, they’re not selling iPods because they suck, are they?
And if you’re getting 100% utilization on your computer with iTunes, guess what: it ain’t iTunes. Time to do some housecleaning.
It doesn’t even run that bad on my ancient 1.33Ghz laptop.
How do sales reflect how many people switched exactly? Wouldn’t it be fair to say a proportion of them own both PC’s and Mac’s?
If you accept the thinking that some of these sales may have been to existing Windows users using both… then you must adopt the same methodology that so many of the Windows users out there may have added a Windows machine to their existing Mac.
The problems is the “market share” statistic which doesn’t gauge the total number of products in use like so many of the people on this board think it does, but measures the total number of products sold.
In market share terms, adding a Mac while not adding a PC means that it was a switch… whether or not the person actually switched. The interesting thing here is that so many of you accepted the statistic when it supported your bias that people were defecting to Windows from Macintosh… (back in the day.)
What’s good for the goose…
Funny how when it comes to the ipod people say “it’s obviously better, otherwise so many people wouldn’t have bought it”.
But when it comes to Apple computers’ market share vs Windows all of a sudden “people are sheep and just because Apple isn’t as popular doesn’t mean it’s inferior”
Neither one of those arguments, whether used for or against Apple is sound.
Your analogy is not right. The iPod achieved dominance through genuine superiority. As far as Windows is concerned, You’re neglecting the fact that Apple was competing against a company that stole its concept and much of its code, then rode the coat tails of other businesses to achieve dominance then used illegal business practices to retain that dominance.
Yeah i think its bs when people get into specific circumstances to get their case through.
No just because something has more market share, doesnt mean its the superior product.
And I guess its also ok to spout off the word “inferior” for who knows what reason.
All it does is give me the mindset that the apple zealots are simply more pompous, rather then the mindset that apple makes better products.
I mean I supply facts why I like the iRiver better. There is no need for you to come back with simple responses like “the iRiver is simply inferior” or “the interface is inferior” or “the features that come with iRiver are no good”.
Bleh “genuine” superiority. Hah I said I like the iRiver better. I own both of them, most people who have Ipods dont even KNOW what an Iriver is.
I mean the fact is Dells sell a lot more then Macs, so they must be superior *roll eyes*. Hondas sell a lot more then porche, so they must be superior. Personally, Id say the apple folks should stick to the ploy that they are the luxurious high class minority that is just better then anyone else for mystical reasons.
Otherwise on a lighter note, congrats to apple. At the least this will open up competition.
“And I guess its also ok to spout off the word “inferior” for who knows what reason.
All it does is give me the mindset that the apple zealots are simply more pompous, rather then the mindset that apple makes better products.”
And if your automatic default mindset is that Apple couldn’t conceivably offer superior products than naturally you would adopt the mindset that supports your bias which is that Mac users must then be pompous. You expose more of yourself by making such a statement rather than exposing others biases as you hoped to do.
“Bleh “genuine” superiority. Hah I said I like the iRiver better. I own both of them, most people who have Ipods dont even KNOW what an Iriver is.”
I have used both and I said I like the iPod better. Lets assume for just a second that your pompous remark is true and most iPod users didn’t choose an iPod based on its merits. How does that support your argument that the iRiver is better? It doesn’t. With that in mind, there are countless reviews you can find across the web that shows the iPod to be the better product.
“I mean the fact is Dells sell a lot more then Macs, so they must be superior *roll eyes*.”
No, Dell sells more computers because the PC industry only has one way to differentiate itself and that is through price. Dell is consistently the company that can offer the lowest prices (or at least strip enough features from their computers to give you less and thus allow you to spend less) as compared to the rest of the PC world. When you combine this factor with the operating system that uses illegal business practices to retain its monopoly you have a major business opportunity… hence Dell’s large sales.
“Hondas sell a lot more then porche, so they must be superior.”
That analogy isn’t right either because they’re two totally different product groups. You might as well be comparing matchbox cars and full size cars.
“Personally, Id say the apple folks should stick to the ploy that they are the luxurious high class minority that is just better then anyone else for mystical reasons. “
Of course you would like that, because it supports your false argument that Macs supposedly have luxurious prices to match their luxurious computers. Yes, Macs are indeed higher quality computers, but they are not more expensive.
I would be nice if you didn’t strive so hard to detract from Apple’s greatest achievements so that those of us who want ballance don’t have to go to the opposite end of the spectrum to defuse each of your comments and thus fuel the notion that somehow we are supposedly zealots.
There are hundreds of music player models available – most people buy iPods.
There’s only one OS that comes pre-installed on new PCs – Windows. This is why it has a large share of the market, even though it isn’t very secure or stable.
Do you see the difference? If there’s anything that’s not sound, it is your argument.
“But when it comes to Apple computers’ market share vs Windows all of a sudden “people are sheep and just because Apple isn’t as popular doesn’t mean it’s inferior”
Apparently you can’t distinguish what it means to go buy a $200 MP3 player with no commitment in software, computer hardware, etc. and what it means to replace every piece of software you own, costing as much or more than the computer itself.
That’s generally a hold up for a lot of people I’ve talked to about switching to Mac, not the cost of the computer or the OS itself, which is fantastic.
and i will be one of thoes people withing the next 3-4 years
“Apparently you can’t distinguish what it means to go buy a $200 MP3 player with no commitment in software, computer hardware, etc. and what it means to replace every piece of software you own, costing as much or more than the computer itself.
That’s generally a hold up for a lot of people I’ve talked to about switching to Mac, not the cost of the computer or the OS itself, which is fantastic.”
pfft. The barrier to switching doesn’t explain why they had Windows in the first place. According to faulty logic on one side it’s because they’re sheep. According to faulty logic on the other side it’s becasue Windows is better. Both arguments are too simple and are just as dumb when talking about an ipod vs other players.
“The barrier to switching doesn’t explain why they had Windows in the first place.”
That’s easy.
Windows was already on the computer when they bought it. They didn’t choose Windows. Windows was chosen for them.
“According to faulty logic on one side it’s because they’re sheep.”
A consumer could genuinely be labeled a sheep if given choice of OSes on their PC and they stayed with Windows anyways. But Microsoft used illegal business practices to restrict choice from occuring.
“That’s easy.
Windows was already on the computer when they bought it. They didn’t choose Windows. Windows was chosen for them.”
But hey people chose Dells over Macs. Face the facts. Greater Market Share != Superior product.
People chose Dells over Macs because Dells allow you to buy less and spend less. PCs have a very genuine asset that (so far) Apple hasn’t felt inclinded to match and that is PCs allow you to buy less and spend less. Apple May typically cost less when compared with comperably equipped PCs, but they also require you to buy more, so you will end up paying more. THAT is why Dell sells more PCs than Apple.
“pfft. The barrier to switching doesn’t explain why they had Windows in the first place. According to faulty logic on one side it’s because they’re sheep. According to faulty logic on the other side it’s becasue Windows is better. Both arguments are too simple and are just as dumb when talking about an ipod vs other players.”
Yet we’re still talking about it. And a couple people here have been using Windows since before OSX existed, and DID NOT like previous versions, myself included, which is why we got involved with Windows.
Not everyone purchased computers yesterday, and accidently bought a computer with WinXP pre-installed.
I gave you the reason many are hesitant to switch; obviously you ignored it.
It was inevitable that Ipod sales would increase sales for macs. This begs” ‘what happens when Ipods are no longer the big sellers?’
I think the portable music/vid box market is still new, and it is not necessarily Apple’s to keep. It will be hard for Apple to even reach 5 percent of new system sales in the US. Worldwide, it will never happen, Linux will get bigger, and Ipod competitors will get bigger.
Apple is desperately trying to bring the Ipod to the next level, and Jobs knows that the way to do that is not with technology, which is universal, but with lock-in content contracts with the major players, many of whom are personal friends of his, and not Taiwanese executive making Irivers and Zens.
“It was inevitable that Ipod sales would increase sales for macs. This begs” ‘what happens when Ipods are no longer the big sellers?'”
How about they continue to make great products that show people that Apple continues to make great products and services.
“It will be hard for Apple to even reach 5 percent of new system sales in the US.”
I’m not so sure about that, they’re pretty darn close right now at 4.5%.
“Worldwide, it will never happen”
You guys also said that Apple could never gain market share… let alone grow so significatly faster than the PC marketplace as they have for the past 3 quarters.
“Linux will get bigger, and Ipod competitors will get bigger.”
And Apple will get bigger and create an even better prodct to keep them ahead of the pack. They’ve been doing that throughout their history. Don’t assume it will suddenly stop.
“Apple is desperately trying to bring the Ipod to the next level, and Jobs knows that the way to do that is not with technology”
Oh, I’m surprised that you would say that considering the fact that they’ve invested so heavily in the iPod’s technology. But then, you were just trolling weren’t you.
“but with lock-in content contracts with the major players”
That’s not something Apple controls but is mandated by those major players you mention. But then, I know you knew that and were just trolling.
It’s simple:
Yes or no. Is a product inferior just because it has less market share? No, of course not.
Yes or no: Are people sheep just because they bought whats popular? No, of course not.
That’s the only point I’m making.
Anyone who says that Windows or Ipods are better because of their greater market share has a flawed argument.
Anyone who says that people who use Windows or Ipods are lemmings who just went with whats popular without bothering to find out what else is out there has a flawed argument.
Yes or no: Are people sheep just because they bought whats popular? No, of course not.
You seem to have a problem understand the word “trendy”.
“Of or in accord with the latest fad or fashion: trendy clothes.”
n. pl. trend·ies
“One who is drawn to and represents the latest trends”
So, YES, people are lemmings/sheep if they buy what is popular vs. buying on value, features, etc.
“You seem to have a problem understand the word “trendy”. “
The big leap that your making… which coincidentally negates your argument is that you are assuming that they bought an iPod *because* its popular rather than because they consider it to be the best product available to them after comparing the alternatives.
I can conceivably be totally oblivious to the iPod craze, compare all the options that I have available to me and the choose the iPod based solely on its merits and therefore would not be following the crowd.
It frustrates me to see so many of you Apple detractors going to such lengths to find a reason for the iPod craze other than it is the best product on the market and is selling accordingly as a result of that.
So, YES, people are lemmings/sheep if they buy what is popular vs. buying on value, features, etc.
So people must be lemmings and sheep becuase they buy windows PCs… it is the most popular, yes.
People must be sheep for using linux over *BSD or Solaris because it is more popular, yes.
Begining to comprehend the ridiculousness of your basesless argument.
Long thread. Many vibes.
Apple must be doing something right. Their product offerings compete with the best on the market and they do offer quality. I know about the shaming campaign and I was offended that Apple, of all companies, would have to be cajoled like that to treat its customers right. We know they can do it right. Why do it any other way?
I’m a huge Apple fan, but I keep a constant eye out for signs they want to pull a fast one. They don’t have to and we [the Apple crowd] should hold them to the highest standard. Otherwise they’ll end up like Dell which has shut down some customer care features because the roar of the dissatisfied customers was keeping Michael out of his sleep [evil, I know].
I’m convinced that what they’re offering will draw a lot more users. There will be people who are drawn to a ‘fashion’ argument, but nobody really believes this is the vast majority of the influx of new users, do they? It is very true that Windows has some major issues that turn people away. The people who read this forum know how to secure their computers. But many other people just don’t have a clue. They don’t. I’ve just visited an XP user who wondered why his computer was acting up an all that. Gee, maybe it’s because it’s infected with the sasser virus? Could that be it?
From the point of security Windows does not have a good reputation and I would be very surprised if a devoted Windows user would argue that in fact it has a good reputation.
Another point is that some Linux users, though they are experts, seem to have their fill of things working great but not quite. That is quite significant as well. A point has been reached, for some at least, where the return on the investment in time and effort to make things work right no longer yields enough benefits to justify keeping up the effort.
Either Linux will grow up very fast or more people are going to start counting the time they spend mending the system versus actually doing some work with it [although the learning hacker will always find it a godsend to hone his skills]
We should also stop with the price argument. There are always people who will be able to rip out the motherboard of an electronic raser, connect it to the remote control of the car port, install Yellowdog onto it and fit the resulting, fully featured computer into a mess tin for less than a tenth of the price of a lap dance in Vegas.
But they will have to do all their support themselves. Windows users, who are so happy with their cheap PCs regrettably seem to discount the price of all that fantasmagorical software they’re running on their cheap machines. Did you steal your software? Don’t use the price argument then, it’s a tad ingenious.
Pricing is an important factor on a corporate level. On a personal level… if every single dollar you spend on a computer has to be accounted for, if it absolutely, positively cannot cost more than the very cheapest, bargain basement PC you can buy [and then you will still need to steal software to run on it], then you have other problems. Don’t buy a computer. Buy food, buy clothes. Pay the rent [and I’m not mocking you if you are in this situation, there’s too much misery in the world as it is].
As with most things people buy, you don’t -really- need a computer. I can dump 95% of my inventory. But if everybody does that, the economy stops. Yes, Apple computers have been too expensive, but that is now no longer necessarily true. Or very important. If you like computers, you’ll spend some money on them. Same with cars. Or fishing rods. Or fashion. You don’t really need it, but you spend the money anyway. Have some fun.
I’ll buy every individual argument posted here, but the big picture is: Apple is making good software [usual quid pro quos apply] that runs on great hardware [same deal] and people are responding to that because they’re actually buying it [and that has not always been so].
As someone said earlier: they’re not buying it because it sucks, are they?
Someone in a store, many moons ago, said “That’s an Apple, they don’t make ’em anymore” [at that moment in time, the two Macs in that store were the most powerful machines there], buy this one. See, that’s what you want: it says “Intel inside”.
*big grin* I wonder what he’ll say when the MacTel machines arrive. I’m a bit dubious myself, but if my user experience does not suffer from it, I’m looking forward to buying a new machine. I’m due for one anyway.
Oh, and iLife is actually 5 applications.
iMacs and powerbooks are great product imho and it was my expectation that they would sell very well.
The iPod has brought Apple back in the limelight and that has helped with people other than all time Mac faithful and OS aware users (who know that computers don’t necessarily run windows).
Now Apple is already the 4th hardware vendor in the world. But the momentum needs to accelerate for industry support to really pickup cause they are on their own whilst ALL the others support Windows.
I’m on an iBook now, but when the new Intel iMac comes out I’ll be tripple booting between MacOS X, Windows, and Linux.
I love Mac OS X.
But, now that I run WinXP / Visual Studio2003 under Virtual PC on a Powerbook. I’m starting to like WinXP again.
Important points:
– I never read email in XP.
– I never surf the internet in XP.
– I’m always behind an Airport Firewall.
– I always have a 1 week, or less, backup of XP on a firewire drive. If some software crashes I can go to the backup. Something crashed last week for example and I had to delete the current virtual environment and use the backup.
Under these conditions I don’t need anti-virus, firewall or anti-spyware software running in XP.
Under these conditions, and switching the desktop look to SILVER, WinXP is enjoyable.
It is true that apple/mac is all about quality and they are serious about whatever they do.
On other hand, windows/microsoft means buisness and getting into the market/$$$ as quickly as possible even at the cost of quality. microsoft is also serious but only with buisness aspect of software but they are changing due to enormous pressure of people going towards apple/other OS.
Windows users face problems associated with windows software running on diverse hardware configuration. It doesn’t happen with apple/mac. This could be the reason why apple/mac works so smooth and not windows/pc.
I started using pc since 1989. I like microsoft for other reasons but I am also tired of problems associated with virus/spyware which take advantage of XP flaws. I am using norton firewall/antivirus, spysweeper and MS antispyware to keep my system intact and have no problems.
I would say apple/mac is good alternative to pc. however, as viruses/spyware is likely to come on mac/apple too (as per symantec report few months ago) and that time we can really know how apple/mac platform fights against it on OS level.
I don’t know about being a ‘trendy ass-poser’ but, I do know that I was just saying to myself…I’d like to buy a mac, but first, I want to see if 375,000 or so of my fellow windows users switch.
So this news, 400,000 switchers, is great news for me, far exceeding my requirements.
I may be a lemming, but I’m not one of those trendy ass-poser lemmings, I wait till its prudent.
Now…actually, ok, I’ve owned mac for years, but I didn’t have one for the past two months.
I sold my ibook to buy a G5 desktop…when the intel switch was announced, and since then I’ve been waiting around, but it sucks not having a real computer (all I had was a windows xp box)….so, got my G5 from e-bay today.
yeah, thanks for letting me share.
Love Macs, but OSX is in serious need of some interface standards compliance. Way to many clashing themes, inconsistent behaviours etc.
The original designers of the Mac OS would be mortified at how badly it’s become.
While I would agree that OS X needs more consistency… its not as if any other operating system offers more consistency. As bad off as OS X is in this regard the closest competitor (Windows) is light years away as far as consistency is concerned. And as far as Windows is… multiply that by 100 and thats where everything else on the market is at.
When people say that OS X needs more consistent behavior, what they’re comparing it to is the Mac OS Pre OS X. Those were the glory days of UI consistency.
I would say apple/mac is good alternative to pc. however, as viruses/spyware is likely to come on mac/apple too (as per symantec report few months ago) and that time we can really know how apple/mac platform fights against it on OS level.
Seeing as how Symantec would LOVE to get a foot in the door on Macs, do you think it’s a fair assessment to say that when they claim virii and spyware are just around the corner, this is in fact nothing more than what can be expected from a company that has a vested interest in publishing this kind of report? Especially in cases like these, you really want to heed the source.
I don’t buy these reports, not even when they come from Apple, and I’m a known Apple afficionado. Doesn’t mean I’m stupid. Just as you are not stupid. The companies are stupid enough to believe we don’t know what a spindoctor is.
I’ve been a Win user for a decade. I have two programming degrees / eight years of university – so I’d pretty much sealed the coffin on my lifelong Windows love affair. Then I saw the iPod. A beauty. But I never had the ballz to buy one for fear my office brethren would hoot and holler and flail me right out of the office. Then a few months ago I discreetly slipped into Best Buy and picked up a Mini (with cash to conceal my evil deed). Got it home, plugged it in, turned it on. My life has changed. I ended up selling both my laptops and my desktop – all Intel machines. I’m saving up for a second bigger Mac as well as making plans for my first iPod – the Video iPod when it comes out this Fall/Winter. Oh, and I’m looking for a new job…
Some people wait all their lives for the right cult to come along.
some people live in a cult and call everybody else cult members or the opposite cult.
wtg Apple
And great hear reports of so many new OSX users!