Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 14th Jan 2006 17:38 UTC, submitted by gprc_account
KDE "Recently at a Linux show, John Littler saw a preview of a new version of KDE running on a KDE developer's laptop. The interface looked cleaner than before, and apparently there was a whole raft of new stuff under the hood. John recently interviewed KDE developer Aaron J. Seigo about the forthcoming KDE 4 (due in the fall) and also a little about the recent controversy surrounding the porting of KDE to operating systems other than Linux."
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Controversy?
by Nathan O. on Sat 14th Jan 2006 18:18 UTC
Nathan O.
Member since:
2005-08-11

The ability to run KDE natively on other platforms is considered controversial? I know there are people who don't think it's a good idea, and some of them are pretty zealous about it, but is it really... a controversy?

Reply Score: 5

RE: Controversy?
by Morty on Sat 14th Jan 2006 18:55 UTC in reply to "Controversy?"
Morty Member since:
2005-07-06

Don't know if controversial is the best word, but it's defiantly what you usually refer to as a double edged sword. Having the applications available on platforms like Mac and Windows may help getting more manpower to development and increase userbase. But it also diminish the best way to get people switch platforms, which is having the best applications.

As an example take a web designer who realizes the best and most important tool available for making his day to day work is Quanta. Today he will probably switch to a *nix platform and most likely use other parts of KDE too, increasing the userbase for several applications in the process. While a native port to Mac or Win will only give a increase in Quanta's userbase, and no further effect other parts of the desktop or underlying OS.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Controversy?
by bytecoder on Sat 14th Jan 2006 18:59 UTC in reply to "RE: Controversy?"
bytecoder Member since:
2005-11-27

I see no reason why this is at all important with open source software. The whole point of it is to benefit the community; so what if not very many people use it? It's not as if you're losing money or anything. When an open source project tries to get more people to use it outside of the normal improve-the-software strategy, it sounds like it's just forcing it on them instead of letting them choose.

That aside, you also have to think of the cost of porting it over. How much manpower would be redirected from other important things, like improving and debugging the apps? Not everything is about zealotry, you know.

Edited 2006-01-14 19:00

Reply Score: 5

RE[3]: Controversy?
by renox on Sun 15th Jan 2006 15:57 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Controversy?"
renox Member since:
2005-07-06

Closed source software use ads, marketing to get users, why open source software shouldn't do the same?

After all users will only use a software if they know about it..

Depending of the software, there can be added benefits such as increased number of users of free standard, which helps also original users: imagine if a significant percentage of users used ogg or the open standard document, etc..

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Controversy?
by unoengborg on Sun 15th Jan 2006 05:06 UTC in reply to "RE: Controversy?"
unoengborg Member since:
2005-07-06

As an example take a web designer who realizes the best and most important tool available for making his day to day work is Quanta. Today he will probably switch to a *nix platform and most likely use other parts of KDE too, increasing the userbase for several applications in the process.

A more likely scenario is this:

1)Webdeveloper: Can I install Quanta and Linux?

2)IT Manager: Sure, as long as you can make it can run the MS-Outlook calendar and our in house developed VB application for travel expences, and that active directory can be used to manage your workstation.

3) Webdeveloper: I'm not sure, perhaps crossover office
could help.

4)IT manager calculates the cost of crossover office, a two day course in Linux, and a days work to set it all up. As he is not that confident in his Linux abilities he throws in one day of lost productivity due to some idiotic errer he may make. Then he compares that to the cost of Dreamweaver.

5)Our web developer is now running Dreamweaver. Not only that, he relizes that it is much better than Quanta and decides to make a pirate copy so that he can run it at home as well. This of course means that he throws out Linux at home, to the immence joy of his children that now can play all the games their friends talk about at school.

All in all, the killer application switch theory doesn't work well in larger organizations. I suppose that it could work for home users. The problem is that home users seldom have development budgets to improve the applications they are using.

If Quanta had been available as a native windows app, our web developers request of using it would have had a much better chance of getting granted, and the cost of Dreamweaver could have been spent on improving Quanta.

The more free applicatins that gets available on windows the less chance that they will be locked in by some closed file format and the threshold for switching to a free OS will be lowered. In the end, if all your applications are free, why shouldn't your OS be free as well?

Reply Score: 5

RE[3]: Controversy?
by segedunum on Sun 15th Jan 2006 13:39 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Controversy?"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

2)IT Manager: Sure, as long as you can make it can run the MS-Outlook calendar and our in house developed VB application for travel expences, and that active directory can be used to manage your workstation.

That stuff needs replaced with something far cheaper. Many organisations, certainly after the latest round of upgrades and this Open Enterprise Licensing Microsoft want you to use, are doing just that.

It's not going to happen with one person requesting it.

IT manager calculates the cost of crossover office, a two day course in Linux, and a days work to set it all up. As he is not that confident in his Linux abilities he throws in one day of lost productivity due to some idiotic errer he may make. Then he compares that to the cost of Dreamweaver.

If this guy is going to be running Quanta what does he want Crossover Office for? And what is it with stupid organisations that believe they need a course in everything?! Maybe he should look at his job title more often.

The more free applicatins that gets available on windows the less chance that they will be locked in by some closed file format and the threshold for switching to a free OS will be lowered. In the end, if all your applications are free, why shouldn't your OS be free as well?

Porting free applications to Windows is just not a long-term viable option.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Controversy?
by TaterSalad on Sat 14th Jan 2006 21:17 UTC in reply to "Controversy?"
TaterSalad Member since:
2005-07-06

I welcome being able to run KDE on other platforms. KSokoban and KAtomic absolutley positively rule! And if I remember right the kubuntu live cd has some apps you can run in Windows so maybe the porting has already started?

Reply Score: 1

I think is good.
by kensai on Sat 14th Jan 2006 18:37 UTC
kensai
Member since:
2005-12-27

The ability of KDE 4 being ported to MAC OSX and Windows is good, I don't use neither of them and don't even plan to use Windows, NEVER, period. But for the people that uses it they will benefit from having k3b and some Kprograms that will make them to not have to pirate the software they need to use since k3b is a very well counterpart to Nero and is free, so this will bring more opportunities to Windows users to use Open Source software. And later on if they feel the need to, even change operating system to Linux or *BSD, since they will be more comfortable with the software. I personally use Free BSD and KDE 3.5.

Reply Score: 5

RE: I think is good (and KDE on WIndows)
by WorknMan on Sat 14th Jan 2006 20:07 UTC in reply to "I think is good."
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

The ability of KDE 4 being ported to MAC OSX and Windows is good, I don't use neither of them and don't even plan to use Windows, NEVER, period. But for the people that uses it they will benefit from having k3b and some Kprograms that will make them to not have to pirate the software they need to use since k3b is a very well counterpart to Nero and is free, so this will bring more opportunities to Windows users to use Open Source software.

First of all, let me say that not ALL Windows users pirate. Everything on my machine is paid for, including Nero. Now, as for running KDE on Windows ...

Personally, if I were that hard up to run KDE, I'd probably be running Linux. That being said, if I can run the DE as an Explorer replacement, that might be worth a go, assuming all of my Windows apps would integrate with it like they do Explroer (sans IE). But if I have to run it on top of the default Windows shell, nah .. forget it.
However, if I could run the apps outside of KDE, that might be cool. I am definitely interested in k3b. Although I already own Nero and wouldn't switch unless k3b was better (and I could find a replacement app for Nero Recode as well), I know several people who could benefit from it. I already have Directory Opus, so I don't need Konquerer. And I don't know about the rest of the apps. Maybe the IM program is better than Trillian, who knows.

But if these program did work (and worked well) under Windows, as far as I'm concerned, that'd be one less reason to switch to Linux. Some people in this thread have voiced conerns about this too. But didn't I just see here a few days ago and article explaining that the point to Linux is not to be a Windows replacement? Well, it isn't for all people .. at least not yet. But if you're interested in getting more people to use open source software, the more programs you can port to Windows, the better. I already use Firefox and Thunderbird, and I'm always looking for new tools. If you think Windows is immoral and nothing open source should run on it, then so be it. That just means I'll probably never use it ;) I don't view software licenses as a political or religious issue, so I think I am a bit more unbiased about the OS I use than the 'open source or die!' crowd.

Reply Score: 4

sirwally Member since:
2005-07-19

"But if I have to run it on top of the default Windows shell, nah .. forget it. "

There shouldn't be any reason why you couldn't run it as the shell. You can run _any_ app as the shell.

Check out ShellOnV2 for making shell switching really esay (with some added bonuses built-in, too). I don't believe it has been updated in a number of years, probably because it works, and there aren't any more useful features worth adding to it. You can find it here: http://wwww.shellfront.org/utils/

Reply Score: 2

LinuxHawk Member since:
2005-11-29

I am not in the Open Source or Die crowd.
But Open Source has saved me. I personally was pirating stuff several years ago. I changed my life (Dedicated myself to Christ) and destroyed all my pirated software.

I still needed to work with office programs, listen to my music (much smaller but legal now), edit photo's and such.
I did not have the money for this but found Linux.
I realize not all Windows users Pirate, but honestly, I have not met any that did not. By that I mean the biggest excuse I hear all the time is "Oh, a friend let me use his/her copy"... That is pirating. And the excuse why they did not own their own copy was it cost too much.

I am responding because I found your reply intresting, you seem open-minded and I just wanted to put in my 2 cents.

Porting KDE is not a bad thing at all.
Open Source means you can use it or not, the decision is yours, not someone elses, and every one can have access weather $$ is an issue or not.

I personall build 1 or 2 systems a month for friends or family and most of them are Linux now.
As a matter of my experience, Linux is easier to set up and maintain for people. The only ones I have to help out are the XP users. Sorry I went off topic, but the point is the $$ I save people with Linux can be passed on with Open Source software like KDE.

it is a choice which is better than no choice.
So I am in the crowd to make Open Source for as many OSes as possible.

Reply Score: 4

gilboa Member since:
2005-07-06

I assume that your bad joke aimed Joseph McCarthy.

Not funny.
These kind of jokes (?) has no business here.
Try Slashdot instead.

Gilboa

Reply Score: 2

raver31 Member since:
2005-07-06

yes, I did not indeed see it as sarcasm.
if you would have it like, <sarcasm>, the way everyone else does it, then we would have spotted it.

as it is, emotions cannot be picked up by text alone, thats the reason for smileys etc.

BTW, saying "enemies of america" is indeed a form of racism, it is also called xenophobia

Reply Score: 1

drLog Member since:
2005-07-11

I honestly dont think that "Atheist" is a bad word. Perhaps "enimies of <insert any country here>" are bad but communism isn't nececerrily bad either. You should open your mind and have a think about what it means to be an atheist or communist (by their pure definitions, thats right, go look in a dictionary!).

Having said that, I'm sure that some of the free software is written by Christian Americans (which is obviously what you are).

Very offtopic, I know....oh yeah, I cant wait for KDE4, it may make me switch from gnome ;)

Reply Score: 1

thebluesgnr Member since:
2005-11-14

"I honestly dont think that "Atheist" is a bad word. Perhaps "enimies of <insert any country here>" are bad but communism isn't nececerrily bad either. You should open your mind and have a think about what it means to be an atheist or communist (by their pure definitions, thats right, go look in a dictionary!). "

Actually, you should open your mind and think of what it means to label free software developers as atheists, communists and enemies of America all in one sentence.

Context is everything, and you're trying to ignore it.

Reply Score: 1

Celerate Member since:
2005-06-29

This is when I wish I could post anonymously ;-)

I'll confess I used to pirate software too, I needed it to get things like homework done but I couldn't afford it, my parents wouldn't help me get it, and I was too young to get a job that actually payed more than a few bucks a day. When I first tried using Linux I slowly started switching over from Windows and eventually I used open source alternatives over pirated software.

Now I can get a job, in fact I had one and got some cool stuff, but I still use Linux. I don't use it because I can get it at no cost any more, I use it because the nature of the licenses under which the software is distributed gives me a freedom I have and don't want to give up. There's a level of trust I have for OSS software which I don't have in the slightest for any software that has restrictions on the user.

Reply Score: 5

WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

I am not in the Open Source or Die crowd.
But Open Source has saved me. I personally was pirating stuff several years ago. I changed my life (Dedicated myself to Christ) and destroyed all my pirated software.


Used to, about 98% of the software on my machine was pirated. And it's not easy to go legit either. But once a person decides to make integrity one of their highest values, it becomes hard to look in the mirror when you know you can't justify it anymore with lame excuses. And just to clarify, I don't have anything against anybody who converts to a particular religion and stops pirating as a result, but I made my decision in the absence of any religious influences ;) (The only reason I bring this up is to illustrate that just because you don't subscribe to any particular religion doesn't automatically mean that you lack charcter.)

Anyway, I had a choice at the time .. I could either pay for my software and go nearly $2,000 into debt, or switch to Linux. In the end, after trying out the best Linux had to offer at that time (about a year and a half ago), I chose the former. And I have not regretted that decision, at least in the standpoint that whenever an app I installed gets updated, I don't have to waste my time sifting through the web or usenet looking for a crack anymore, or wonder if a cracked app I installed is going to implode on itself (which did happen occassionally) because of anti-cracking logic built into the app.

Edited 2006-01-15 04:28

Reply Score: 3

morgoth Member since:
2005-07-08

Quote: "and wouldn't switch unless k3b was better"

It is BETTER than Nero, by a long shot. Better UI, faster, more stable. It just works.

Dave

(yes, I have a copy of Nero for Linux and it's shite)

Reply Score: 1

leech Member since:
2006-01-10

I do believe he was talking about comparing K3b with Nero for Windows. Nero for Linux (while it does work) uses the interface for gnome toaster, which hasn't been updated for a very long time. Nero for Linux uses the same API, which works wonderfully for burning tons of stuff, especially the nero native format (.nrg) Last time I used k3b, it didn't support that.

Nero for Linux for me just works, I've had tons of problems getting K3b to work for me at times, but then I usually use a development release of Debian (or now Ubuntu).

Nero (windows) is a lot better and has more features than k3b by a long shot.

Leech

Reply Score: 1

RE: I think is good.
by LB06 on Sat 14th Jan 2006 18:48 UTC
LB06
Member since:
2005-07-06

Correct. But not only Windows user will benefit from this. Linux and KDE will also be able to take advantage by porting KDE4 to Windows, because the migration barrier can be much lower by allow a sort of gradual switch. First just some desktop apps like amaroK, k3b, firefox and openoffice, later the entire DE and after that the new (Linux) kernel.

edit: And of course, the threading system has not been fixed yet...

Edited 2006-01-14 18:49

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: I think is good.
by cloose on Sat 14th Jan 2006 20:07 UTC in reply to "RE: I think is good."
cloose Member since:
2005-07-12

edit: And of course, the threading system has not been fixed yet

Allan committed a fix for osnews replies to khtml yesterday. So the problem should be gone with KDE 3.5.1.

http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-commits&m=113714707827068&w=2
http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=116790

Reply Score: 5

CygWin requirement?
by SamuraiCrow on Sat 14th Jan 2006 18:50 UTC
SamuraiCrow
Member since:
2005-11-19

Will the Windows version of KDE require CygWin to gain the Linux compatability to run all of those Linux apps?

Reply Score: 1

RE: CygWin requirement?
by chemical_scum on Sat 14th Jan 2006 20:50 UTC in reply to "CygWin requirement?"
chemical_scum Member since:
2005-11-02

Will the Windows version of KDE require CygWin to gain the Linux compatability to run all of those Linux apps?

No

Reply Score: 1

Stability?
by Nathan O. on Sat 14th Jan 2006 18:52 UTC
Nathan O.
Member since:
2005-08-11

Basically speaking on the topic of Plasma / integrated desktop + karamba + panel:

"...avoiding the overhead of multiple processes where just one will do quite fine."

Does this mean that when the panel crashes, I'll have to restart all my desktop widgets, too? Will they crash gracefully? Does this mean I shouldn't put too much stock on the stability of widgets I might design to do important things?

Reply Score: 1

RE: Stability?
by somebody on Sat 14th Jan 2006 19:15 UTC in reply to "Stability?"
somebody Member since:
2005-07-07

Does this mean that when the panel crashes, I'll have to restart all my desktop widgets, too?

No, they should be restarted as soon as panel restarts. They are one now. And since they are using external notification engine (lately a lot of KDE software is using D-BUS) that shouldn't be a problem with reconnecting back just as it nothing happened.

Somehow I hoped they would post something more about KDE4, at least about what and how KDE4 is gonna be be cleaned (not just libraries, but actual desktop feel). Looking at some mockups I found it is taking a Gnome approach of simplicity. I must admit I was pleasantly surprised about droping aRts and news about GStreamer.

Maybe there is still hope about Gnome and KDE working together without constant battles. For now, running both just introduced pain, nothing more.

Now all they would need to implement is
1. common lower VFS level, where Gnome-VFS and DCOP would be just clients and nothing more, meaning drop both, make lower level (possible with FUSE) and then remake both to use common
2. common themeing engine or at least spec, aka. one theme to rule them all. Not just icons, widgets too

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Stability?
by ma_d on Sat 14th Jan 2006 19:30 UTC in reply to "RE: Stability?"
ma_d Member since:
2005-06-29

They did mention that your panel applets would be freed from the panel. That's a big one for me at least. I hope it gives some of the same flexibility I see in e17...

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Stability?
by cm__ on Sat 14th Jan 2006 20:12 UTC in reply to "RE: Stability?"
cm__ Member since:
2005-07-07

> I must admit I was pleasantly surprised about droping aRts and news about GStreamer.

Well, that's not exactly news. The search for a new default multimedia framework started maybe two years ago (or even more?). But dropping arts was not possible before KDE4 because KDE has committed itself to binary compatibility throughout the KDE3 cycle.

Here's a summary of a meeting of KDE developers and developers of the different frameworks from 2004: http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-multimedia&m=109443725713883&w=2

Reply Score: 3

RE: CygWin requirement?
by Nathan O. on Sat 14th Jan 2006 18:55 UTC
Nathan O.
Member since:
2005-08-11

Linux apps, yes. KDE apps, no.

From the article, Plasma won't be portable without X11. This means that the desktop won't make it to non-X11 systems, which sounds to me like KDE apps will run under Windows and MacOS X, and KDE will fully run under any X server on Windows (+ Cygwin or a non-Cygwin-requiring X server), MacOS X (with X11 running, as things are today) and Linux / BSD / others that use X11 as the graphics system.

Reply Score: 3

KDE4 vs Vista
by mefisto on Sat 14th Jan 2006 19:00 UTC
mefisto
Member since:
2005-08-18

It looks like new KDE will be the best alternative for winVista users. More then alternative even. To have networking stuff inside your desktop it sounds good.
On the other hand, KDE will still be the heavy-end DE, so i'll better stick with my FluxBox.

Reply Score: 1

RE: KDE4 vs Vista
by situation on Sun 15th Jan 2006 02:58 UTC in reply to "KDE4 vs Vista"
situation Member since:
2006-01-10

It is indeed a heavy DE, in terms of Linux. But from the latest Vista beta, it seems like KDE is right on par for the "next gen GUIs". The Vista beta, with default services, boots up and runs at ~550mb. Makes even 320mb from KDE seem light.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: KDE4 vs Vista
by Celerate on Sun 15th Jan 2006 05:06 UTC in reply to "RE: KDE4 vs Vista"
Celerate Member since:
2005-06-29

KDE usually has an option to tune down the visal effects and hardware intensive tasks, or at least it did in KDE 2 and 3 as I recall. So it should be scalable further down from there I think, but don't quote me on that.

Anyway I'm hoping to be able to run it on machines with 256 megs of ram, if it won't I could always use a different DE on those resource constrained systems.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: KDE4 vs Vista
by ankitmalik on Sun 15th Jan 2006 06:38 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: KDE4 vs Vista"
ankitmalik Member since:
2005-07-06

"KDE usually has an option to tune down the visal effects and hardware intensive tasks, or at least it did in KDE 2 and 3 as I recall. So it should be scalable further down from there I think, but don't quote me on that. "

Yeah! It still has it - it's called kpersonalizer

Reply Score: 2

Screenshots / Video?
by mkools on Sat 14th Jan 2006 19:40 UTC
mkools
Member since:
2005-10-11

Anybody? I can't wait to see this ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE: Screenshots / Video?
by Dr-ROX on Sat 14th Jan 2006 19:55 UTC in reply to "Screenshots / Video?"
Dr-ROX Member since:
2006-01-03

From the interview:

"JL: Any chance of a sneak screenshot?

AJS: Not at this point, sorry."

To early for this...

Reply Score: 1

RE: Screenshots / Video?
by Morty on Sat 14th Jan 2006 20:04 UTC in reply to "Screenshots / Video?"
Morty Member since:
2005-07-06

Not really much to see, since most of the work done so far are the porting to Qt4 and refactoring of the core libraries. The visually exciting and screenshot friendly part of it will come after most of the infrastructure are in place:-)

That said you can do lots of cool stuff with the new Qt, like it's native SVG support. So if you use your imagination, perhaps you can think of a way to use something like this in a usefull way for a desktop.
http://physos.net/zacks_videos/zacks_video_2.html

Reply Score: 4

Man that looks exciting
by Temcat on Sat 14th Jan 2006 20:40 UTC
Temcat
Member since:
2005-10-18

Maybe KDE4 will make me switch from Gnome :-)

Reply Score: 2

RE: Man that looks exciting
by John Nilsson on Sun 15th Jan 2006 01:00 UTC in reply to "Man that looks exciting"
John Nilsson Member since:
2005-07-06

I was actually thinking exactly the same thought...

Reply Score: 1

v Proof
by mike hess on Sat 14th Jan 2006 21:06 UTC
RE: Proof
by physeter on Sat 14th Jan 2006 22:08 UTC in reply to "Proof"
physeter Member since:
2005-08-26

You expressed your opinion with valid points, not flaming, not offtopic and yet few people moderated you down?!?

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Proof
by anda_skoa on Sat 14th Jan 2006 22:10 UTC in reply to "RE: Proof"
anda_skoa Member since:
2005-07-07

Maybe because it was completely offtopic?

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Proof
by cm__ on Sat 14th Jan 2006 23:14 UTC in reply to "RE: Proof"
cm__ Member since:
2005-07-07

> You expressed your opinion [...] not offtopic and yet few people moderated you down?!?

How is a rant against Apple(*) not offtopic in the comment section of an article about an interview with a KDE developer?


(*) IMHO an unsubstantiated one, but that's not important now.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Proof
by Jeeeb on Sun 15th Jan 2006 04:23 UTC in reply to "Proof"
Jeeeb Member since:
2005-11-12

Um... maybe you meant this comment for the intel port of the darwin source code not being available article?

Reply Score: 1

KDE 4
by TaterSalad on Sat 14th Jan 2006 22:21 UTC
TaterSalad
Member since:
2005-07-06

Sounds like KDE 4 is going to be quite an improvement. I can't wait for it to be released this fall. I'm quite curious as to what Plasma is going to look like and how its going to function.

I really want to see the KDE apps on Windows, thats going to really be awesome.

JL: Any chance of a sneak screenshot?

AJS: Not at this point, sorry.


Bastards!

Edited 2006-01-14 22:22

Reply Score: 1

RE: KDE 4
by Celerate on Sun 15th Jan 2006 05:16 UTC in reply to "KDE 4"
Celerate Member since:
2005-06-29

"I really want to see the KDE apps on Windows, thats going to really be awesome."

I'd like to see some, I just hope they don't get too generous. KOffice, Kwrite, Konquer and KMail would be enough for me.

"JL: Any chance of a sneak screenshot?

AJS: Not at this point, sorry.

Bastards! "


What he said doesn't necessarily mean that they are refusing to show people what it'll look like, it may simply be that it's not developed to the point where they want the public to see it. Would you want to see someone getting a face lift during the surgury, would they look good during recovery with all the swelling and excretions? They probably want to wait until it's looking good enough for the public to look at and see what it's really going to turn out like.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: KDE 4
by czubin on Sun 15th Jan 2006 13:03 UTC in reply to "RE: KDE 4"
czubin Member since:
2005-12-31

Maybe he just implented Klippy into KDE4 ;)

J/K

That said , I'm really looking forward to kde4 preview.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: KDE 4
by Celerate on Sun 15th Jan 2006 23:13 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: KDE 4"
Celerate Member since:
2005-06-29

"Maybe he just implented Klippy into KDE4 ;) "

Haha, I really hope that never happens, I don't need cartoon characters telling me what I should do with my computer. One of the things I like about KDE is that there's few to no speech bubble popup messages and the like.

If people wanted cartoon office supplies and animals telling them what to do then Microsoft BOB would have been a success ;-) .

Reply Score: 1

Screenshots?
by SpookyET on Sat 14th Jan 2006 23:10 UTC
SpookyET
Member since:
2005-07-08

Where are the screenshots? An interview is fine, but a picture is worth 1000 words.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Screenshots?
by GhePeU on Sat 14th Jan 2006 23:14 UTC in reply to "Screenshots?"
GhePeU Member since:
2005-07-06

Where are the screenshots? An interview is fine, but a picture is worth 1000 words.

Did you actually try READING the interview?

"JL: Any chance of a sneak screenshot?

AJS: Not at this point, sorry."

Edited 2006-01-14 23:15

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: I think is good (and KDE on WIndows)
by teprrr on Sat 14th Jan 2006 23:16 UTC
teprrr
Member since:
2005-07-06

Well, K3b is a frontend for several apps like cdrecord, growisofs and dvdrtools so those need to be ported to Windows too to use K3b there. Or code something which would use Windows' own things to burn the discs. So I don't think K3b will be the one of the first KDE apps for Windows.

Reply Score: 2

nighty5 Member since:
2005-12-18

Native builds of cdrecord are available for mosot UNIX platforms, but yes Windows still uses Cygwin.

Reply Score: 1

RE: KDE4 vs Vista
by teprrr on Sat 14th Jan 2006 23:20 UTC
teprrr
Member since:
2005-07-06

KDE won't include networking stuff inside of it, but it'll get nice and clean framework which with you can access stuff like network status and so on. So KDE could do as Windows' does nowadays; telling you (and the apps) that the network cable is (un)plugged and so on. But it'll be very interesting to see many possibilities this thing will offer.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: KDE4 vs Vista
by thebluesgnr on Sun 15th Jan 2006 00:46 UTC in reply to "RE: KDE4 vs Vista"
thebluesgnr Member since:
2005-11-14

For anyone interested, this is also the goal of NetworkManager, a Red Hat project that will also be default in the next SUSE releases.

At the moment it's GNOME specific and I don't think KDE bindings will ever exist, as it seems KDE will be adopting a different framework.

NetworkManager:
http://www.gnome.org/projects/NetworkManager/

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: KDE4 vs Vista
by Morty on Sun 15th Jan 2006 01:04 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: KDE4 vs Vista"
Morty Member since:
2005-07-06

I don't think KDE bindings will ever exist

Never, as in already included in SUSE Linux 10.1 Alpha 4 you mean?

http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/1685

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: KDE4 vs Vista
by thebluesgnr on Sun 15th Jan 2006 01:38 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: KDE4 vs Vista"
thebluesgnr Member since:
2005-11-14

Glad to know someone started work on that. With the 'Solid' project announcement I got the impression KDE was going for something else.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: KDE4 vs Vista
by Morty on Sun 15th Jan 2006 02:01 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: KDE4 vs Vista"
Morty Member since:
2005-07-06

Since NetworkManager is based on HAL and DBUS it's a Linux only functionality, it does not have the portability KDE requires. Solid is KDEs answer to the problem of portability, giving KDE applications an uniform interface regardless of the underlying architecture. On Linux the safest bet is that network functionality will be handled the same way as NetworkManager, with HAL and DBUS. On BSD and AIX something different, but the applications will not notice as they interface with it through Solid.

Edited 2006-01-15 02:01

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: KDE4 vs Vista
by thebluesgnr on Sun 15th Jan 2006 03:10 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: KDE4 vs Vista"
thebluesgnr Member since:
2005-11-14

D-BUS is portable, an so is HAL.

Porting HAL is not as straightforward as other software because it deals with hardware abstraction. But Sun is working on a Solaris port, there are people working on a FreeBSD port, etc.

But getting back to GNU/Linux systems, is Solid just an API on top of HAL and Networkmanager?

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: KDE4 vs Vista
by Morty on Sun 15th Jan 2006 03:27 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: KDE4 vs Vista"
Morty Member since:
2005-07-06

D-BUS is portable, an so is HAL.
But it's not ported to anything yet, and it will most likely not be ported to all patforms KDE runs. So KDE has to have another way of dealing with those, even if it only are temporary. Switching to the HAL/DBUS solution when or if they get ready on a platform would not pose a problem.

is Solid just an API on top of HAL and Networkmanager

Basically yes, but not limited to networks. It's supposed to include all kinds of hardware the desktops need to interact with, like storage devices and whatnot. Making it easy for applications and the desktop to interact with the devices.

http://solid.kde.org/cms/1050
http://solid.kde.org

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: KDE4 vs Vista
by cloose on Sun 15th Jan 2006 11:11 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: KDE4 vs Vista"
cloose Member since:
2005-07-12

At the moment it's GNOME specific and I don't think KDE bindings will ever exist, as it seems KDE will be adopting a different framework.

Kevin Ottens, the main programmer of Solid, seems to be willing to use NetworkManager has one of Solid's backends. Actually he even promotes working with them instead of creating a new library.

Source:
http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/kde-hardware-devel/2006-January/00001...

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: KDE4 vs Vista
by segedunum on Sun 15th Jan 2006 13:46 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: KDE4 vs Vista"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

NetworkManager:
http://www.gnome.org/projects/NetworkManager/


I'm loving these new Appeal-like sites that are now springing up :-).

Reply Score: 1

KDE is really improving
by situation on Sun 15th Jan 2006 03:02 UTC
situation
Member since:
2006-01-10

I used to be heavily biased against KDE, going along with the usual "it's bloated" complaints, and sticking to things like xfce, windowmaker, and openbox.
I recently tried out KDE on a full Slackware 10.2 install for a friend. It seems like it has advanced quite a bit, the old lag and slowness has been noticeably reduced, even the memory requirements have lightened (keeping on par with Vista / OS X).
If the last time you tried KDE was around version 3 or earlier, I recommend you give it another go. I don't mean use it as your main GUI, but it's good to keep up with the "latest and greatest" and not have outdated arguments.
Of course, KDE 4 is following this path even more, with planned memory reductions and all that jazz.
Don't understand how all the "user friendliness" (on any OS) increases productivity, but then again I never have.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: KDE4 vs Vista
by SlackerJack on Sun 15th Jan 2006 03:43 UTC
SlackerJack
Member since:
2005-11-12

KDE doesn't take up that amount of memory, your forgetting X and others. KDE takes up about the same as XP, 830Mb/1024 free here, SuSE 10 takes more because of the preloading of Openoffice and others.

Reply Score: 1

KDE speed
by Vorlath on Sun 15th Jan 2006 05:34 UTC
Vorlath
Member since:
2005-12-03

KDE would be great an other systems. SVG is a very nice addition. Scalable graphics will become the norm, so a jump on this is a smart move.

My only concern about KDE is its speed and the fact that my Linux box keeps flushing KDE into my swap drive after long periods of un-use. I wish it would stay resident. Maybe there's a setting I don't know about.

Reply Score: 1

RE: KDE speed
by nutshell42 on Mon 16th Jan 2006 01:29 UTC in reply to "KDE speed"
nutshell42 Member since:
2006-01-12

My only concern about KDE is its speed and the fact that my Linux box keeps flushing KDE into my swap drive after long periods of un-use. I wish it would stay resident. Maybe there's a setting I don't know about.

echo 10 >/proc/sys/vm/swappiness
(or 20 or something, the number iirc has to be between 1 and 100, the default is 60 and it determines how aggressively the kernel moves unused memory content to the swap)
you can set it permanently on most distributions in /etc/sysctl.conf (also iirc) by adding

vm.swappiness=10

Reply Score: 1

Love KDE articles
by John Blink on Sun 15th Jan 2006 06:20 UTC
John Blink
Member since:
2005-10-11

I love reading about the KDE technology. I for some reason am one of those people who likes the GUI, but seem to lean more to GNOME.

I for one hope all the new stuff looks really good, because I want to use KDE.

I am confused ;)

Opensource = a wealth of tech at your fingertips.

Reply Score: 1

v Screenshots:
by Yogurth on Sun 15th Jan 2006 07:11 UTC
RE: Screenshots:
by CrimsonScythe on Sun 15th Jan 2006 07:47 UTC in reply to "Screenshots:"
CrimsonScythe Member since:
2005-07-10

Wow, your insight and knowledge is impressive, and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter. I'd also like to thank you for taking your time to share this amazingly useful information with us. I just hope that one day I can become as enlightened as you are.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Screenshots:
by superstoned on Sun 15th Jan 2006 13:31 UTC in reply to "Screenshots:"
superstoned Member since:
2005-07-07

not screenshots, mockups, made in gimp/inskape/whatever. ideas for KDE 4, some good, some bad.

Reply Score: 3

Ported to non-Linux systems?
by phoenix on Sun 15th Jan 2006 07:43 UTC
phoenix
Member since:
2005-07-11

John recently interviewed KDE developer Aaron J. Seigo about the forthcoming KDE 4 (due in the fall) and also a little about the recent controversy surrounding the porting of KDE to operating systems other than Linux."

Hmmm, last time I checked, you could install KDE on FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, DragonFlyBSD, Solaris, and a few other systems. Funny how I never noticed any controversy when that happened.

Why would there be "controversy" over porting it to one more OS? The more the merrier, so long as it doesn't slow down the development trying to get all the same features working on all the different OSes.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Ported to non-Linux systems?
by CrimsonScythe on Sun 15th Jan 2006 09:01 UTC in reply to "Ported to non-Linux systems?"
CrimsonScythe Member since:
2005-07-10

I don't think the controversy is really about being able to install KDE on non-Linux systems, but rather having it native on the two proprietary and operating systems MacOS X and Windows. I would think that we should substitute the name "Linux" with "Linux/FreeBSD/NetBSD/OpenBSD/other open source platforms" and that the main issue is that porting KDE to MacOS X and Windows could give the users less incentive to try out Linux/*BSD/etc.

On the other hand, only having to program for one platform probably would be more productive than having to support many. Also, judging from the threads here on OSNews, I don't think it would be aaaany problems getting everybody to use the same platform. ;-)

However, it might be that the result could be the exact opposite instead. Maybe experiencing KDE and KDE applications on those proprietary platforms can acclimate the users to the applications and make the road to trying Linux/*BSD a little easier.

As it happens, I'm actually clairvoyant and already know the outcome of the OS market, but I don't really feel like sharing that knowledge. Sorry about that. All I can say is: It's not Sco UnixWare...

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Ported to non-Linux systems?
by kaiwai on Sun 15th Jan 2006 10:18 UTC in reply to "RE: Ported to non-Linux systems?"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Well, KDE is ported to Solairs (only recently opensourced), AIX and HPUX IIRC - so it has nothing to do with proprietary.

I think the issue more has to do with Windows and MacOS X, the differences with UNIX and the amount of work that maybe required to getting it working - the whole, 'is it really worth the pain' argument.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Ported to non-Linux systems?
by m_abs on Sun 15th Jan 2006 08:02 UTC
m_abs
Member since:
2005-07-06

They mean the likes of Windows and Mac OS X.

Reply Score: 1

Porting free software to Windows
by thebluesgnr on Sun 15th Jan 2006 14:31 UTC
thebluesgnr
Member since:
2005-11-14

To the people that think porting to Windows is a bad thing because it wastes developer resources, that's not how it works with free software.

If a developer wants to port a free app to Windows it's because he wants it. If the app maintainers refuse to accept his patches, what happens is not that the developer will just give up on having the app run on Windows, but he will:

a) maintain his own branch of the application, ported to Windows;

b) look for another application where the developers accept his patches to port to Windows.

This is how free software works: the user (developer in this case) will do what he needs, what he wants. Not what a community wants.

Some people seem to think all core KDE developers will buy a Windows copy to start the porting, when that's not how it works at all. What will happen is that developers who wish to use KDE applications on Windows and have the knowledge to port them will do so.

Reply Score: 3

Headrush
Member since:
2006-01-03

quote="WorknMan"]First of all, let me say that not ALL Windows users pirate. Everything on my machine is paid for, including Nero. Now, as for running KDE on Windows ... [/quote]
I would say you are in the small minority.

Nobody says Windows is immoral, its Microsoft.

The simple fact is that whether it be Linux, MacOS, Solaris, doesn't matter, another OS with a higher market share is better for everyone, including Windows users. It stimulates Microsoft to continue to fix/improve there OS and keeps prices lower. And they need to keep fixes, because there are still many core level problems with Windows.
I'm sure some people will post how they have no problems with Windows, but as someone who repairs computers/OS for a living I can say WIndows does have many an issues still.
(Someone will chime in about configuring Linux and under-powered programs, but we aren't talking about setup or applications, I'm talking strikely performance consistency and stability)

Reply Score: 3

RE: KDE speed
by superstoned on Sun 15th Jan 2006 17:58 UTC
superstoned
Member since:
2005-07-07

mostly a kernel problem. con kolivas has some patches (mapped watermark and swap prefetch) to help it. google his name to get his patches, and moan to your distribution maker to include them. they should imho be in the kernel, but no-one seems interested, while they make your system significantly less sluggish in the morning and during heavy usage.

Reply Score: 1

Screenshots!?!
by swlaird on Sun 15th Jan 2006 20:45 UTC
swlaird
Member since:
2005-07-06
RE: Screenshots!?!
by Morty on Sun 15th Jan 2006 21:27 UTC in reply to "Screenshots!?!"
Morty Member since:
2005-07-06

That link only points to some mockups with possible ideas for KDE4. I don't believe anything of it are implemented yet, if some of it's considered at all. If you are really interrested in KDE4 you can download it from SVN, but I don't think it will look very different from 3.5 yet, except from occasional drawing glitches:-)

But if you are interrested in mockups of ideas, you can try the KDE4 Brainstorm category at kde-look. http://www.kde-look.org/index.php?page=0

And there are also a few preview images of the new Oxygen icons floating around the net.

Reply Score: 1