Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 1st Jan 2007 22:30 UTC
SkyOS Hell was already frozen anyway, but apparantly, the SkyOS team is trying to bring hell's temperature to absolute zero, since they are saying 2007 might see a release of SkyOS 5. "After what seems about 30 years worth of work (I'm sure even more to Robert), SkyOS will finally be released to the public. Lots of details are still being worked out on this one (as well as the obvious issues still present in the system), but we're really shooting to make it happen."
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YEAH
by judgen on Mon 1st Jan 2007 22:46 UTC
judgen
Member since:
2006-07-12

Now al i have to wait for is pigs to fly by the window =) GO SKYOS!
all the best wishes.
//Dan

Reply Score: 4

RE: YEAH
by JernejL on Wed 3rd Jan 2007 10:32 UTC in reply to "YEAH"
JernejL Member since:
2006-03-15

With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

Reply Score: 3

Price Rise?
by hhcv on Mon 1st Jan 2007 22:48 UTC
hhcv
Member since:
2005-11-12

I wonder if I should go pick up a BETA pack now to avoid any possible hike in the price?

Reply Score: 2

incredible
by mcduck on Mon 1st Jan 2007 22:55 UTC
mcduck
Member since:
2005-11-23

I cant belive the amount of work Robert has made into SkyOS. Look at the changelogs, their wicked.
The downside (IMHO) is that there is less focus on testing and debugging.

Reply Score: 1

RE: incredible
by zizban on Mon 1st Jan 2007 23:09 UTC in reply to "incredible"
zizban Member since:
2005-07-06

No, there is extensive testing and debugging, that's why releases take so long. First there is a cycle of alpha tests then a beta release. Experimental features are sometimes tested before they ever reach alpha.

Reply Score: 5

RE: incredible
by Clinton on Thu 4th Jan 2007 08:38 UTC in reply to "incredible"
Clinton Member since:
2005-07-05

I haven't tried SkyOS since forever ago (at least before they changed their looks). However, I think the process they use has extensive testing built into it. It looks like a solid project to me.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: incredible
by Bobe on Thu 4th Jan 2007 08:42 UTC in reply to "RE: incredible"
Bobe Member since:
2006-12-12

It is a solid project. I don't know that I will use SkyOS as my main desktop anytime soon, but it is a great hobby OS, like BeOS used to be.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: incredible
by rabyte on Thu 4th Jan 2007 11:12 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: incredible"
rabyte Member since:
2005-06-29

Actually, BeOS wasn't a hobby OS. Also SkyOS seems to become more and more like Windows, something I certainly am not very happy about.

Reply Score: 1

Alex Forster
Member since:
2005-08-12

SkyOS team "promises" 2007 release? You're quoting a predictions article where Kelly says he thinks it's 70% likely that SkyOS will be released in '07. He does not promise release this year, nor does he really have the authority to do so. Now, if they miss that deadline (which in all honestly I think they will), you will have single handedly started rumors of vaporware.

Instead of "promises," try "hopes for," which admittedly makes the title much less interesting, but much more true.

Reply Score: 5

Kelly Rush Member since:
2005-06-30

We're certainly going to give it our best shot. ;)

Reply Score: 2

Alex Forster Member since:
2005-08-12

Hah, no offense intended, of course.

Reply Score: 1

Kelly Rush Member since:
2005-06-30

None taken. ;)

Reply Score: 1

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

He does not promise release this year

A release date is ALWAYS a prediction, an aim; not something set in stone. We might as well change ANY article in which a release date is mentioned into "hopes for". What I see, is a team member saying there's a 70% chance SkyOS 5 will be released in 2007. That's well above 50%, and hence the word "promise" (I actually thought this over before I published this) makes perfect sense.

nor does he really have the authority to do so

That's not my problem. He is a longtime member of the SkyOS team, and hence his words hold value. If his words are meaningless (which is what you're implying here) then do not post them on the front page of the SkyOS website.

God, Alex, you're really looking for things to attack me with, don't you?

Reply Score: 1

Lakedaemon Member since:
2005-08-07

>A release date is ALWAYS a prediction

Well... I see your point

>What I see, is a team member saying there's a 70% chance >SkyOS 5 will be released in 2007. That's well above 50%, >and hence the word "promise"

Yet to promise is much stronger than to predict. And your changed words could harm Kelly in the future.

Say, if Skyos 5 isn't released in 2007,
with the "promise" word, Kelly will be branded a liar, someone who doesn't uphold his words.

with the "predict" word, Kelly should be safe though...


I'm pretty sure that you thought a lot about it, but please, pretty please don't change words/add another meaning to what other says...

If you still insist on using the "promise" word...
well, why don't you say instead
"I, Thom holwerda, promise that the SkyOS Team will release SkyOS 5 in 2007..."

I mean...you wouldn't have written that if you didn't believe that, would you ?

And, that way...it solves the problem :
YOU take the responsability if the "prediction that turned into a promise" isn't upheld, not Kelly ;)

^_^

Edited..
oups...my bad.... the title has been changed to "they say that it might be released" which is fine by me...^_^
Please accept my humble excuses

Edited 2007-01-02 18:18

Reply Score: 3

dostrowski Member since:
2006-11-10

The title of the article you linked to is "Future Predictions" and you turned it into "Promises 2007 Release" which is TOTALLY different. Alex is just pointing out the truth, which is that the headline was changed in a dramatic way. The purpose of that change is, of course, unknown to us, but it's reasonable to assume it was to make a "better" attention grabbing title regardless of the consequences.

Reply Score: 4

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

No, it was because the word "promise" does NOT, I repeat, does NOT constitute a 100% certainty, as some here believe. A promise to do xyz means that you will do everything possible (in Kelly's words: "...but we're really shooting to make it happen") to accomplish xyz-- not that it actually WILL get done without a doubt.

Were that to be the case, the headline would have been: "SkyOS 5 To Be Released in 2007". Instead, I opted for a formulation expressing less certainty, namely, the use of the verb "to promise", which in a case of a 70% certainty makes perfect sense.

promise n.
1.
a. A declaration assuring that one will or will not do something; a vow.
b. Something promised.
2. Indication of something favorable to come; expectation: a promise of spring in the air.
3. Indication of future excellence or success: a player of great promise.

Reply Score: 1

Kelly Rush Member since:
2005-06-30

How about this: I 70% promise that SkyOS will be released in 2007. Of course, I 30% promise you nothing! ;)

Seriously though, I can't say with absolute, 100% certainty that SkyOS will definitely, for sure be released this year. Ultimately, this will only happen if Robert is able to finalize everything. However, we have discussed it quite a bit, and I'm not going to go into all the details at this time, but the summary is:

- We want to release SkyOS before 2008 hits, and
- My best estimate says there is around a 70% chance of us making this happen

Obviously, that leaves some room for error, which leaves us room for the un-foreseen.

So bottom line, Thom phrased something one way, that may have been right or wrong, but he changed it. No harm, no foul. I'm not upset about it, so also taking into account that he changed it, let's go ahead and let this one go. Deal? ;)

Reply Score: 1

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

I have not changed anything, actually.

Reply Score: 1

Kelly Rush Member since:
2005-06-30

Oh, I was under the impression that you did. At any rate, I've already posted my version of how people should interpret what I wrote, so for anyone reading, just use that as gospel, rather than a headline post (which you should do anyway, no matter what the story is).

Reply Score: 1

ferrels Member since:
2006-08-15

Wow, you should be a lawyer or on Bill Clinton's staff. I think you need to go to the dictionary and brush up on the meaning of "promise".

Edited 2007-01-02 21:44

Reply Score: 1

dostrowski Member since:
2006-11-10

Thom look at the first two definitions that are, bar none, the most common uses for the word. The article does not indicate "a vow" that SkyOS will have a new release in 2007 nor does it have "a declaration assuring that" the SkyOS team will release in 2007. It contains a prediction. If you can't see the difference, I'm not sure what to tell you other than take a deductive reasoning class.

Reply Score: 4

Alex Forster Member since:
2005-08-12

A release date is ALWAYS a prediction, an aim;.....That's well above 50%, and hence the word "promise" (I actually thought this over before I published this) makes perfect sense.

"You said it has a 70% 5-year survival rate! You promised me she'd live!"

You're unbelievable.

God, Alex, you're really looking for things to attack me with, [aren't] you?

No! I'm not! I read the title and thought "holy shit! what did they do now?" The last thing I expected the news post to be about was that predictions blog, and frankly it pissed me off because I fell for your "play everything up" style.

Edited 2007-01-02 20:20

Reply Score: 1

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

"You said it has a 70% 5-year survival rate! You promised me she'd live!"

The fact you come up with a comparison to somebody/something dying or not is kind of... Weird. We're talking software here, I have limited space to make a headline, and I write headlines in the blink of an eye.

Do you really think that an OS used by 3 men and a cow is usable as a sensationalist item? Get over yourself, Alex, you're really starting to work on my nerves here. I showed you the dictionary entry for "promise" which CLEARLY shows that the word was a GOOD fit for this headline. The issue is settled, get over it.

Reply Score: 1

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

"A release date is ALWAYS a prediction"

A prediction is however not a promise. That's why they are, you know, different words with different meanings.

"That's well above 50%, and hence the word "promise" (I actually thought this over before I published this) makes perfect sense."

Uh no. A promise is a certainty, ie 100%, not a 50% chance.

Reply Score: 5

Promising what?
by ferrels on Tue 2nd Jan 2007 02:56 UTC
ferrels
Member since:
2006-08-15

Another beta release that you have to pay money for the privilege of testing??!! What a racket. This guy suckers people into paying him money to test his software. That's great salesmanship but lately that's all I see or hear regarding SkyOS. I've been hearing "it's almost finished" for over 3 years now. It's almost as bad as AmigaOS4, but at least Hyperion finally delivered on their promise and released OS4 and didn't make their beta testers pay for the "privilege of testing".

It's also suffering from a terminal case of "creeping feature-itis". So many things are constantly being added/changed that it'll never be released/finished. The focus should be on device drivers, especially 3D accelerated video and network adapters.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Promising what?
by Shakey on Tue 2nd Jan 2007 03:07 UTC in reply to "Promising what?"
Shakey Member since:
2005-10-11

I disagree.

I have greatly enjoyed working on the project, and would happily pay another $10 to do it again.

I mean ... we're only talking about $10. And that's a one-time fee. Big whoop.

I think you need a New Year's hug. ;)

Edited 2007-01-02 03:08

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Promising what?
by mikesum32 on Tue 2nd Jan 2007 04:39 UTC in reply to "RE: Promising what?"
mikesum32 Member since:
2005-10-22

You payed 10 dollars ? Are you sure ? I payed 30. Maybe I got in too late, but it's 30 now.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Promising what?
by Darkness on Tue 2nd Jan 2007 04:45 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Promising what?"
Darkness Member since:
2005-08-27

I think he's talking about amigaOS

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Promising what?
by Shakey on Tue 2nd Jan 2007 15:49 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Promising what?"
Shakey Member since:
2005-10-11

Yep, I paid $10 USD (about 2 years ago).

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Promising what?
by ferrels on Tue 2nd Jan 2007 21:37 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Promising what?"
ferrels Member since:
2006-08-15

Current price for the privilege of doing Robert's beta testing is $30. When did you sign up? Back in the year 2000 when it was promised to be released then?

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Promising what?
by Kelly Rush on Tue 2nd Jan 2007 22:35 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Promising what?"
Kelly Rush Member since:
2005-06-30

I'm not going to look right now, but I'm pretty sure we didn't even start working on SkyOS 5 until roughly August of 2003, and we didn't start taking beta testers until January of 2004, so....

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: Promising what?
by Thom_Holwerda on Tue 2nd Jan 2007 22:45 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Promising what?"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

SkyOS started the beta program in December 2004 [1], while the first mention of SkyOS v5 was the design contest in - indeed - August 2003 [2].

[1] http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=5440
[2] http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=4325

Reply Score: 1

RE[7]: Promising what?
by ferrels on Tue 2nd Jan 2007 23:49 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Promising what?"
ferrels Member since:
2006-08-15

And prior to the beta program of 2004 it was a free download.

Why don't we all start sending Microsoft $30 a pop just for the privilege of debugging their latest copy of Vista? Even the evil empire has seen the virtue in letting people beta test their OS for free. Or better yet, why don't you pay me to come to my office and do my job for me.

If you've made less than $300 USD working on SkyOS, then that should send you a message. Your business model is flawed. You'd get a lot more testers if SkyOS betas were cost-free. Even drug dealers know that you get your customers hooked by giving them free samples. Then you make them pay later. I'm not criticizing the OS. I truly like it and think it's a great alternative. I just think that the business model is flawed. Get people hooked on this great OS and as you make new functions/features available, then charge them for your R&D efforts. It's worked great for the "evil empire aka Microsoft" and other businesses as well.

Edited 2007-01-03 00:02

Reply Score: 1

RE[7]: Promising what?
by Kelly Rush on Wed 3rd Jan 2007 05:57 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Promising what?"
Kelly Rush Member since:
2005-06-30

I think you mean December of 2003, but I get what you mean. ;) Actually, I think that article said that we were taking PRE-orders for the beta at that time, but if memory serves me correctly, we sent the first batch out (I believe we sent actual CDs for the first few batches) around mid-January...I could be wrong though. ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Promising what?
by bornagainenguin on Thu 4th Jan 2007 02:47 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Promising what?"
bornagainenguin Member since:
2005-08-07

SHHHH!!

Keep it down or they'll make you pay again; it's been so long they probably forgot what you paid to get in and might decide to pull a Zeta on your ass!

--bornagainpenguin

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Promising what?
by ferrels on Tue 2nd Jan 2007 05:29 UTC in reply to "RE: Promising what?"
ferrels Member since:
2006-08-15

Yeah, it's more than $10 USD and it started out as freeware/shareware. And like I said earlier, why should anyone pay him to test his OS? That's like paying Ford to find all the problems in their latest car!

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Promising what?
by Joe User on Tue 2nd Jan 2007 05:35 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Promising what?"
Joe User Member since:
2005-06-29

I'm sure some people would pay to chase problems in Ford's new car. It's not because you find it ridiculous that some aren't interested. For some people it's a hobby, and they actually have fun testing the latest version of an OS and searching for bugs. You're on a OS web site, I'm sure many people like that actually, to the point to pay. When you fish, don't you put the fish back to the water? But still you maybe had to pay to fish. And you still had a good time fishing.

Reply Score: 5

RE[4]: Promising what?
by ferrels on Tue 2nd Jan 2007 21:34 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Promising what?"
ferrels Member since:
2006-08-15

No, I don't pay to fish. That's like picking on animals that live in a zoo. I hunt for real fish in a real lake or stream or ocean, not the pets in somebody's pond where I have to pay a fee and stand around the banks with the rest of the losers.

Operating systems are the same way. I can be stupid and pay the developer good money to do the job he should be doing with his closed sourced operating system. Same thing goes for fishing....closed/private lake....small fish that you'd turn back because they aren't anything worth keeping even though you paid money to fish for them.

SkyOS is just another pet fish in a pay-for-sport pond. If offers nothing that isn't already available in other OSs that cost money but the schmucks who support it somehow think they're contributing a new and groundbreaking OS. They're only contributing to the developer's bank account. If that's what they want to do with their time and money, then that's their prerogative. But I'd rather spend my time and money on something a bit more "real". I'd rather spend my time going after a trophy fish off the coast of Baja instead of paying to fish out of some guy's farm pond.

Reply Score: 0

RE[5]: Promising what?
by Kelly Rush on Tue 2nd Jan 2007 22:45 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Promising what?"
Kelly Rush Member since:
2005-06-30

They're only contributing to the developer's bank account.

Oh yeah. Robert and I have made a lot of money off of SkyOS. Sometimes we roll our money up into balls and have moneyball fights with each other. Then we burn our money, because we have so much of it.

All sarcasm aside, I've made a total of about $300 from SkyOS (which I put into building a low-end computer that has SkyOS alphas and betas installed on it 100% of the time for testing purposes). Robert puts the meager amount of money that we've made from beta tester accounts into hardware for testing, books for learning, and our web server for hosting the hundreds of gigs we push. He ended up dropping back his real-life work hours, just to put more time into SkyOS, so in actuality, Robert is LOSING money, not making money.

Like any initial venture, we're scraping by with minimal funds, getting by any way we can, and taking an initial loss. The hope is that down the road, the sacrifice will eventually begin to pay off (that's the economical hope, anyway; money is definitely not the main goal here with SkyOS).

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Promising what?
by protagonist on Tue 2nd Jan 2007 05:41 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Promising what?"
protagonist Member since:
2005-07-06

you obviously do not use Windows then. :-)

And some of us pay because we like to think outside the box. If it works out we had a hand in it. If it doesn't then we had a lot of fun for our money. I could go out for the about same amount and get about three value meals at BK, but the moment would be fleeting and not all that satisfying. i am sure you purchase things with your money that we would feel were just as ridiculous as you seem to feel this is. Value for the money is in the perception of the purchaser.

Reply Score: 5

RE[3]: Promising what?
by smitty on Tue 2nd Jan 2007 05:47 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Promising what?"
smitty Member since:
2005-10-13

Q: And like I said earlier, why should anyone pay him to test his OS?

A: Because they want to. Maybe they just want to use it for fun and they think it's worth the price, or maybe they want to support the project by paying for it. If they want to pay to use beta software, who are you to tell them they shouldn't? It's not like they're being lied to and told it is a finished product - would you rather SkyOS was released as is and then sold?

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Promising what?
by arielb on Tue 2nd Jan 2007 11:13 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Promising what?"
arielb Member since:
2006-11-15

right, anyone who pays for skyos is paying to be part of the experience. like when you watch an artist and you pay for enjoying his talent.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Promising what?
by mikesum32 on Tue 2nd Jan 2007 07:21 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Promising what?"
mikesum32 Member since:
2005-10-22

Remember those who get the beta also get the final version of skyos 5.

So we that test, also get to influence the final product.

Or maybe we just had an extra 30 dollars around.

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Promising what?
by Soulbender on Tue 2nd Jan 2007 10:58 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Promising what?"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

"And like I said earlier, why should anyone pay him to test his OS?"

You know, it's not like you're forced to use his OS and pay for it. Sure, I wouldn't pay for it either but its his project and his decision and no one is forcing you to use it.
Stop whining like a crybaby and get real, not everyone can freeload in their parents basement and most people who have grown up actually has to make a living somehow. Getting paid to do something you like sure beats flipping burgers at McDonald's.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Promising what?
by Darkness on Tue 2nd Jan 2007 03:43 UTC in reply to "Promising what?"
Darkness Member since:
2005-08-27

first of all, if you pay for the beta, you pay for the final product as well. It's not like you will have to pay extra for the final release as well.

and device drivers are definately not the thing they should focus on most. What use is an OS that has a shitload of drivers but is very buggy and featureless...

And have you heard of any os that tries to get 3D drivers from the beginning? Look at how much difficulty the linux community has to get decent 3d drivers and then think again.

I do agree that there should be more networkdrivers but this will probably come once skyos gets near release.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Promising what?
by arielb on Tue 2nd Jan 2007 11:06 UTC in reply to "RE: Promising what?"
arielb Member since:
2006-11-15

you are assuming there will be a final product. 80/20 Pareto rule tells me one guy, even someone as brilliant as Robert isn't going to be able to fix all the boring bugs required for a stable, final release.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Promising what?
by stestagg on Tue 2nd Jan 2007 12:07 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Promising what?"
stestagg Member since:
2006-06-03

How the hell does the Pareto principle have any relevance here?

I would agree that the chance of a random person completing an Operating system of this complexity on his own is tiny, but Robert has shown amazing dedication to the project. If anyone can do it, then he can.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Promising what?
by arielb on Tue 2nd Jan 2007 20:18 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Promising what?"
arielb Member since:
2006-11-15

Pareto implies that it's relatively easy to come up with new features. Most of the work is fixing all the bugs. All those tiny details. And since this is an OS and not some app that you can live without...bugs are critical. I'm sorry but I just can't take an OS seriously if it's only being worked on by one guy even if he's a super genius and never sleeps. And there's no guarantee it won't be dropped if something else happens in his life.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Promising what?
by Kelly Rush on Wed 3rd Jan 2007 03:57 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Promising what?"
Kelly Rush Member since:
2005-06-30

There are no guarantees in life, period. However, if you avoid living your life due to that fact...is it really much of a life to begin with?

Additionally, if you look through the changelog, you'll see that Robert has fixed literally thousands of issues that our hundreds of testers have encountered and reported.

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: Promising what?
by arielb on Wed 3rd Jan 2007 12:31 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Promising what?"
arielb Member since:
2006-11-15

I don't avoid taking risks but I manage them. I invest in microcap mutual funds but I never put my money in one stock. SkyOS is like putting money in a penny stock. On the other hand, it's only $30 and people put a lot more into penny stocks that never go anywhere.

Robert may have fixed thousands of issues. Unfortunately there are *millions* of issues in any OS, especially one like SkyOS that is starting from scratch.

Reply Score: 1

RE[7]: Promising what?
by Kelly Rush on Wed 3rd Jan 2007 14:48 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Promising what?"
Kelly Rush Member since:
2005-06-30

I guarantee you, there are not millions of issues, I'm pretty confident there are not even ONE million issues. You'd have to talk to Robert to know for sure, but I would imagine the number of issues would be somewhere in the 50,000 or less category. Additionally, not every issue is mission critical, and can easily be addressed in a service update, should it happen to be missed before going out the door.

Reply Score: 1

RE[8]: Promising what?
by arielb on Thu 4th Jan 2007 11:14 UTC in reply to "RE[7]: Promising what?"
arielb Member since:
2006-11-15

it's not even about the number of bugs but the amount of time required fixing them will be much much longer than the time it took to put in all those not quite complete features.

I'm not saying SkyOS should be open source but I would have a lot more confidence if more developers worked on it, like the small team BeOS had. (and even they were bogged down trying to make and debug all the drivers for the zillions of configurations out there)

You see, I'm very frustrated because everyone since BeOS talks about an alternative to Windows that runs on regular PC's and is easy to use but nobody delivers or they have a special "catch" that limits their future (GPL, compatibility with an old OS, too small team, etc)

Reply Score: 1

RE: Promising what?
by Dark_Knight on Tue 2nd Jan 2007 16:38 UTC in reply to "Promising what?"
Dark_Knight Member since:
2005-07-10

Even though SkyOS is supposed to be a commercial OS I agree with not charging people to test a company's software, at least not with a time limited license such as for 30 days. After all I've never had to pay to evaluate SUSE Linux from Novell or even Windows Vista from Microsoft. Most companies offer some sort of trial period which is usually 30 to 90 days for an OS. The developer of SkyOS on the other hand wants consumers to believe it's normal to charge someone to test a company's software. If the fee is for developers of third party commercial products to have a commercial license to run the OS with out a time limit then that would be more acceptable.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Promising what?
by WereCatf on Tue 2nd Jan 2007 17:24 UTC in reply to "RE: Promising what?"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

They aren't really charging you for the right to test the OS, haven't you read any of the comments here or on their site? You pay now, you will get all the updates _and_ the final SkyOS when it is released without having to pay anything anymore. It will cost a lot more when it is actually released, so it is a good deal. Also, why whine about it? It is still under development, so it is not even worth creating a proper evaluation version either. It is meant for OS enthusiasts and developers at the moment.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Promising what?
by Darkness on Tue 2nd Jan 2007 17:41 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Promising what?"
Darkness Member since:
2005-08-27

actually, there is no indication at all that the final product will be more expensive.

If they want to include proprietary drivers from say nvidia, then it could get more expensive, but as far as I know, the price should stay the same

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Promising what?
by ferrels on Tue 2nd Jan 2007 21:40 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Promising what?"
ferrels Member since:
2006-08-15

Well, if Robert would open up the source, the number of developers would increase a thousandfold and then he wouldn't have an excuse to charge you $30 for a copy.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Promising what?
by Kelly Rush on Wed 3rd Jan 2007 03:58 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Promising what?"
Kelly Rush Member since:
2005-06-30

You already have an open source OS, called "Linux" (to name just the most prominent of many options). If having access to the source code and tinkering with it is your thing, you should definitely use that. Closed-source works for us.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Promising what?
by arielb on Wed 3rd Jan 2007 12:52 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Promising what?"
arielb Member since:
2006-11-15

if the source is opened, you will see multiple distros sold by several companies. Robert won't make money from his own work. Look at all those linux hackers and then Novell and Redhat make all the money even though they didn't do most of the work.

On the other hand, Mozilla is making millions of dollars from Firefox even though it is completely free.
We also don't see any distros except for a few geeky optimized builds and Flock is so different from what firefox is about.

I think the difference is with linux, companies make money from selling support. Firefox makes money and gets people to create all these ads (www.firefoxflicks.com) because it's something people love. And yeah the Google deal. ;)

Reply Score: 1

Isn't it required to be opensource?
by Joe User on Tue 2nd Jan 2007 04:37 UTC
Joe User
Member since:
2005-06-29

I see it uses much GPLed material (Bash, OpenGL, GAIM, KDE icons...) Doesn't the GPL require that any software that includes GPL software be also released as opensource?

Reply Score: 0

Darkness Member since:
2005-08-27

there you go:
http://www.skyos.org/?q=node/579

and it's not including GPL software that requires to release the sources of everything else. It's linking GPL software to other software that requires such measures.

I suggest you read the GPL a little more carefully

Reply Score: 5

Joe User
Member since:
2005-06-29

Have a look at the change log: http://www.skyos.org/?q=node/446

Damn! Does Robert happen to sleep?!

Reply Score: 1

v and Linux sourse code
by Rohan on Tue 2nd Jan 2007 09:14 UTC
RE: and Linux sourse code
by libray on Tue 2nd Jan 2007 15:56 UTC in reply to "and Linux sourse code"
libray Member since:
2005-08-27

How can you make these claims? Do you use the OS?

Reply Score: 2

allways the same
by arsirc on Tue 2nd Jan 2007 09:17 UTC
arsirc
Member since:
2006-12-05

i will only say that
i like the project and i had a smile on
my face when i was sending the 30$ to robert!!!


--- ?2007 the year of skyos? ---

Reply Score: 2

Promise
by Isolationist on Tue 2nd Jan 2007 09:38 UTC
Isolationist
Member since:
2006-05-28

I can hardly wait for this ;)

Reply Score: 1

PJBonoVox
Member since:
2006-08-14

Since they haven't 'promised' anything.

Reply Score: 3

Really buggy
by sirhomer on Wed 3rd Jan 2007 06:07 UTC
sirhomer
Member since:
2007-01-03

SkyOS is really really really really buggy. It's more alpha then beta. I don't see this happening. SkyOS is really just a buggy Win95 that takes 1 GIG of RAM to run and takes 40 seconds to load Firefox. I don't want to seem hateful, just speaking the truth. SkyOS is snake oil.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Really buggy
by Kelly Rush on Wed 3rd Jan 2007 14:56 UTC in reply to "Really buggy"
Kelly Rush Member since:
2005-06-30

Ok, so lets address the comments in your post:

SkyOS is really really really really buggy. It's more alpha then beta. I don't see this happening. SkyOS is really just a buggy Win95...

Well...I would hope that it would be more buggy than Windows 95 in its present form, as Windows 95 was a finalized product, and SkyOS is still in beta.

...that takes 1 GIG of RAM to run and takes 40 seconds to load Firefox.

Firstly, SkyOS only requires 512MB of memory to run at present, and that is only due to the debug code that is in the system that allows Robert to correct bugs when users encounter them. SkyOS should be able to easily get by on 256MB of memory when it is finalized, maybe even less (does anyone even have less than 256MB though nowadays).

Second, Firefox does not take 40 seconds to load, it usually loads on my low-end Sempron with 512MB of memory in roughly 20 seconds. Again, this is due to the debug code. Once that is out, and everything is optimized, it will start much faster.

I don't want to seem hateful, just speaking the truth. SkyOS is snake oil.

I won't claim you aren't speaking the truth, but I do think you are misunderstanding what SkyOS is doing behind the scenes.

Reply Score: 3

Not likely
by computrius on Wed 3rd Jan 2007 18:21 UTC
computrius
Member since:
2006-03-26

Not to be negative, but after using the most recent beta, its not likely. Id give it a less than 10% chance.

Reply Score: 2

wow...
by Morin on Thu 4th Jan 2007 14:11 UTC
Morin
Member since:
2005-12-31

I see jealousy everywhere... for SkyOS making progress despite it being closed, despite a fee just to beta-test, and despite the programming "team" being one person. That must be the devil's work, so be proud to defame it... (sarcasm off)

Reply Score: 2

SkyOS of today
by sirhomer on Thu 4th Jan 2007 17:23 UTC
sirhomer
Member since:
2007-01-03

Fact of the matter is, SkyOS *right now* takes alot of memory, is slow, crashes very easily, supports almost no hardware, has very few applications, the native applications it has have very few features, and is hard to develop for. Kelly won't tell you any of this.

Edited 2007-01-04 17:24

Reply Score: 1

RE: SkyOS of today
by Robert on Thu 4th Jan 2007 17:56 UTC in reply to "SkyOS of today"
Robert Member since:
2005-07-06

1.
Currently SkyOS requires 256 MB of memory, which isn't a "lot of memory" I think. When launching applications like Firefox with debug support and disabled swapping support you should have 384MB.

2.
What is slow?
SkyOS should boot in a few seconds (~7 seconds). The system runs quite fast even in composited VESA mode. What exactly is slow?

3. http://www.skyos.org/?q=node/560
Supports quite a lot standard hardware, it should "at least work" on almost every system. But yes, things like 3D acceleration, Firewire, .. are not yet supported. "almost no hardware" is simply completely wrong.

4. Firefox, Thunderbird, NVU, Blender3D, Pixel, GCC, Developer Studio, and many, many more. I don't think this is "very few". But yes, you will not find applications like Photoshop, Corel Draw, 3D Studio, Office,...

5. "the native applications it has have very few features"
sorry, didn't understand this one

6. hard to develop for.
Well, did you even try developing for it? SkyOS has a very clear and easy to use API, Developer Studio, Factory, Mono, C#, Pascal, GCC, Perl,....

Btw, did you post any debug report on your "crashing" issues?

Edited 2007-01-04 17:58

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: SkyOS of today
by sirhomer on Fri 5th Jan 2007 05:48 UTC in reply to "RE: SkyOS of today"
sirhomer Member since:
2007-01-03

1. Actually, your beta page says to have at least 512MB RAM, but 1GB recommended. Bait and switch?

2. SkyOS takes over two minutes to load on my hardware. But of course it looks fast to you, you develop it.

3. Great, you support VESA and a few Ethernet cards. Unfortunately, neither my sound card or Ethernet card works under SkyOS. However, both work out of the box on Ubuntu Linux, and both work with the proper drivers on Windows.

4. Seven programs is very few. Ubuntu main repos have what? 20,000 packages? And how much software is there for Windows? It doesn't even compare. Plus all those software packages you listed (minus the crappy Developer Studio) run on Linux and Windows as well. Except of course, they run much faster and don't bring down the entire system after one minute of operation.

5. Most "Sky OS" native applications can't be configured or have very little functionality.

6. Mono and C# are the same thing, and neither work well (how many .NET applications run on SkyOS again?). "Developer Studio" is about as powerful as Notepad. And none of the programming languages you listed can even access the Sky OS API. Other then C of course. Yes, C. Nope not C++ even. C. 1993 called, and they want their non-OO GUI development APIs back.

Fact of the matter is, SkyOS *right now* takes a lot of memory, is slow, crashes very easily, supports almost no hardware, has very few applications, the native applications it has have very few features, and is hard to develop for. Kelly or Robert won't tell you any of this..

Edited 2007-01-05 05:51

Reply Score: 1

RE: SkyOS of today
by Soulbender on Sat 6th Jan 2007 08:59 UTC in reply to "SkyOS of today"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

"Kelly won't tell you any of this. "
Why would he? If you're too stupid to figure that out from the fact that is is an *alternative* OS in *BETA* then quite frankly you deserve to be disappointed.

Edited 2007-01-06 09:00

Reply Score: 2

sirhomer
by liamdawe on Fri 5th Jan 2007 20:09 UTC
liamdawe
Member since:
2006-07-04

Stop comparing it to Ubuntu Linux, Comparing SkyOS to Ubuntu is like battling a peice of grass with a few thousand lawn mowers.

SkyOS is making awesome progress and i am pleased to have given up $30 for betas.

Looks like sirhomer is a poor loser because one or two things don't work how he likes.

Go code your own OS sirhomer, i would love to see you do much in 100 years as robert has done recently.

Reply Score: 1

RE: sirhomer
by sirhomer on Fri 5th Jan 2007 20:23 UTC in reply to "sirhomer"
sirhomer Member since:
2007-01-03

What would rather me compare it to? MS-DOS?

And because I can't make an operating system I should be sucking Robert off? There is a lot of things Robert can't do which I can, for instance, telling the truth.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: sirhomer
by Robert on Fri 5th Jan 2007 20:56 UTC in reply to "RE: sirhomer"
Robert Member since:
2005-07-06

wow, what is your problem man? I tell you the truth, I'm simply not interested in talking to you, at least not until you know what you are talking about, stop spreading rubbish and you learn how to actually make respectful conversation. Point.

Edited 2007-01-05 20:59

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: sirhomer
by sirhomer on Sat 6th Jan 2007 20:27 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: sirhomer"
sirhomer Member since:
2007-01-03

How about you stop spreading rubbish first and then we will talk? Almost everything I've seen you post is pure garbage.

Reply Score: 1