Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 23rd Oct 2007 21:01 UTC
Apple Apple sold 1.1 million iPhones during its fourth quarter, the company said in its results statement on Monday. This brought total sales of the iPhone to 1.39 million since its launch and pushed the company's revenue to USD 6.22m (GBP 3.04m) for the quarter. The good news was not solely to do with the iPhone, however, as the company also reported shipping 2.1 million Mac computers, representing 34 percent growth over the fourth quarter of 2006. Apple 'exceeded the previous quarterly record for Mac shipments by 400,000', the company said in the statement. Additionally, News.com tries to look beyond the marketing.
Order by: Score:
What the...
by meianoite on Tue 23rd Oct 2007 21:39 UTC
meianoite
Member since:
2006-04-05

From the article:

But despite the recent results, it's still just not that simple. Apple said during its earnings conference call that half of the customers who bought Macs at its retail store last quarter were new Mac owners. Viewed against total Mac shipments of 2.2 million during the quarter, that's actually not all that many brand-new Mac users.


Uhm... Right, contrast to HP, Dell, Gateway, Sony, Acer, Toshiba, Lenovo and the ilk, whose customer base is probably comprised of 99% "former" PC owners.

How the heck does the platform history of the people buying these machines matter at all? Apple is moving new hardware, period. For all I care, they could be former Amiga/RiscOS/AtariST owners, they could own a handful of Macs, they could own Macs themselves and now are "sharing the love" with their parents, grandparents, significant others, their kids. How, how, why does the switchers ratio matter at all? What matters is that according to Gartner Apple is the third largest computer vendor in the US with 37.2% YoY growth, behind Dell (-5.5% YoY, er, shrink) and HP (16.2% YoY growth).

I fail to see how any of those numbers can cast the faintest shade of negativity upon Apple.


(Then again, it's CNET, so why should I be surprised to see them trying to see a negative side on positive Apple news?...)

Edit: oh, how could I ever forget mentioning Dell, Sony and Gateway?

Edited 2007-10-23 21:41

Reply Score: 3

RE: What the...
by saterdaies on Tue 23rd Oct 2007 22:19 UTC in reply to "What the..."
saterdaies Member since:
2005-07-07

Platform history is important and that statistic doesn't paint Apple negatively at all. In fact, I think most people would see it as a compliment. They're saying that Apple was able to poach customers from others. If someone said that AT&T poached 1 million customers from Verizon, that would be very positive for AT&T.

That statistic tells us that Apple is gaining customers not simply by capturing new computer users, but that users who had previously not bought an Apple now think that Apple is the way t go.

Reply Score: 2

Great!
by Eagle101 on Tue 23rd Oct 2007 21:53 UTC
Eagle101
Member since:
2007-03-07

Great Job Apple! I love all my Apple products and I will continue to buy them, not because of their design, but because of their simplicity and ease of use. When you work hard, you always achieve your goal, and that is what Apple is doing!

-Eagle101

Reply Score: 1

tyrione
Member since:
2005-11-21

and this isn't news?

Sorry, but a million former PC users switching to OS X is news.

Those people have friends. They can influence their future choices.

Reply Score: 10

Joe User Member since:
2005-06-29

Not to mention that the ipod and iphone toys help greatly to sell Macs. You start buying an ipod, then you save some money and buy a Mac Mini (or an iMac).

http://cache.gizmodo.com/gadgets/images/iProduct.gif

:)

Reply Score: 0

Ultimatebadass Member since:
2006-01-08

I had a good laugh, thanks ;)

Reply Score: 1

findelmundo Member since:
2007-02-27

Why is a new Mac user a switcher by default? They could also be people buying a computer for the first time...

Reply Score: 1

tyrione Member since:
2005-11-21

Switcher Set S={all new Mac users regardless if they were from another platform or no platform}

Reply Score: 2

Tyr. Member since:
2005-07-06

and this isn't news? Sorry, but a million former PC users switching to OS X is news. Those people have friends. They can influence their future choices.


Looks like a lot of those switchers are students : http://duggmirror.com/apple/Look_at_them_apples/cba56d2d8545c3b1818...

Which is good news because they are more likely to be affluent and influential in the future.

Reply Score: 2

Erunno Member since:
2007-06-22

I wonder how most of these studens can afford a MacBook Pro (and yes, I'm jealous).

Reply Score: 1

tryphcycle Member since:
2006-02-16

"I wonder how most of these studens can afford a MacBook Pro (and yes, I'm jealous)."


cus, um... maybe macs are not all that expensive?!?!?

Reply Score: 0

sappyvcv Member since:
2005-07-06

You've never tried to buy a macbook have you? I paid $1500 for a refurbished one that wasn't even the latest model. The retail price on it was well over $2000.

Reply Score: 2

Erunno Member since:
2007-06-22

That matches my experience as well. Even factoring in a discount for students the cheapest MacBook Pro still costs around 1800 Euro.

Reply Score: 1

bryanv Member since:
2005-08-26

Because like almost everyone else in the US, they're in debt past their eyeballs!

Seriously. I have a friend that was dumb enough to take out a loan so they could go buy a PowerBook a few years back.

Now he's stuck with a 12" G4 aluminum laptop that he's still making payments on.

Stupid. Stupid. Stupid. Our society encourages spending beyond our ability.

Reply Score: 1

Darkelve Member since:
2006-02-06

"Those people have friends."

They do? :p (hey, I'm just joking).
Actually my music teacher has a MacBook. And a lot of the IT guys (or IT/salespersons) that come over here have Macbooks (always the white ones for some reason). That Finder with the multiple columns did not look too useful though; or maybe it was just because that IT guy did not know how to use it... he was hunting for a file for over 2 minutes!

Reply Score: 2

Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

Should have shown him how to use spotlight! ;)

Reply Score: 2

Darkelve Member since:
2006-02-06

Yeah now I know that it exists, I was wondering why he did not use that instead.

It is not a criticism of the OS, I was just amazed how inefficient he was in his locating of that one file (it was a html file)... you would have expected something better from an IT worker with a decent Mac.

Reply Score: 2

bryanv Member since:
2005-08-26

Owning a mac is not a sign of intelligence.

Don't blame the platform for the plethora of morons.

Reply Score: 1

tryphcycle Member since:
2006-02-16

"Owning a mac is not a sign of intelligence. "

>>>> no... of course not. it IS sign that the customer IS PAYING ATTENTION!!!!

Don't blame the platform for the plethora of morons."

for every moron using a Mac.... there is 10 using a windows computer.... that is a statistical FACT! (but totally irrelevant!)

Reply Score: 1

Darkelve Member since:
2006-02-06

It is only natural for a person to make comparisons based on experiences. I wasn't calling anyone anything (except calling said person 'inefficient' at that task back then).

Reply Score: 2

Want more buyer?
by sanctus on Wed 24th Oct 2007 00:05 UTC
sanctus
Member since:
2005-08-31

Increase is not that good, because they have the full potential to do far better.
Apple, do you want to increase your sale?

Stop your Canadian and Europeen Fraud.

up to 300$ CAD over for macbook pro
150$ CAD over for basic macbook
up to 450$ CAD difference for iMac
memory 50% CAD more expensive

Dell adapt their price against the dollar value, Dell ship from Texas, it would by logical if it were more expensive. Apple ship from china, no excuse.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Want more buyer?
by rayiner on Wed 24th Oct 2007 01:18 UTC in reply to "Want more buyer?"
rayiner Member since:
2005-07-06

Ha ha, Europeans ;)

On the other hand, we have to live under Bush and Co, so what are you complaining about!

Edited 2007-10-24 01:18

Reply Score: 4

RE: Want more buyer?
by Johann Chua on Wed 24th Oct 2007 11:21 UTC in reply to "Want more buyer?"
Johann Chua Member since:
2005-07-22

Who the hell buys extra RAM from Apple?

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Want more buyer?
by bryanv on Wed 24th Oct 2007 18:46 UTC in reply to "RE: Want more buyer?"
bryanv Member since:
2005-08-26

No kidding. Markup is at least 2x market value.

Reply Score: 1

My Mac pro
by Pepino on Wed 24th Oct 2007 01:31 UTC
Pepino
Member since:
2007-10-24

then just want to say that i love my Mac!

jaja

Reply Score: 1

Wowsers.
by Sodapop on Wed 24th Oct 2007 01:51 UTC
Sodapop
Member since:
2005-07-06

Apple and Google stock are very high. I know one thing bad about that. When they fall, they'll fall hard.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Wowsers.
by monodeldiablo on Wed 24th Oct 2007 02:02 UTC in reply to "Wowsers."
monodeldiablo Member since:
2005-07-06

But as long as they keep having awesome quarters, they won't fall.

Reply Score: 2

Apple's great Quarter
by aking469 on Wed 24th Oct 2007 02:11 UTC
aking469
Member since:
2006-01-16

Hey I'm buying stuff as fast as I can......
I need a raise.....get more Apple stuff......
Must have more Apple stuff.......
hey, I have an extra kidney.....

Reply Score: 2

congrats
by jjmckay on Wed 24th Oct 2007 02:20 UTC
jjmckay
Member since:
2005-11-11

Congrats Apple. I've seen the Apple fans jump for joy many times before, over exaggerating good news. I still don't think their business model is particularly good. There are limits to what Apple can do. It is a house of cards. Albeit now with the iPod, iPhone and the Mac, it now has three foundations instead of one. How sound is this foundation? I think not as good as it may seem now.

This is sort of like the 80s all over again. I'm referring to the c64 I guess. Dramatic sales one year and a few years later its bust. To me what is more important are open platforms (like the PC) than getting swept up in the hype and boom times of the moment. Apple can keep making nice computers but I'm not interested in being under the Apple thumb.

Good news is good news though. Congrats Apple!

Edited 2007-10-24 02:21

Reply Score: 2

RE: congrats
by gfacer on Wed 24th Oct 2007 02:32 UTC in reply to "congrats"
gfacer Member since:
2005-11-10

There business model is not so good?

They have 19 billion in cash, they can survive a downtrend in their current product line!

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: congrats
by tyrione on Wed 24th Oct 2007 04:40 UTC in reply to "RE: congrats"
tyrione Member since:
2005-11-21

just over $15 Billion but whats four billion?

Reply Score: 2

RE: congrats
by snozzberry on Wed 24th Oct 2007 16:33 UTC in reply to "congrats"
snozzberry Member since:
2005-11-14

I still don't think their business model is particularly good.

They've turned amazing profits, developed a devoted user base, branched into a wildly successful entertainment empire, created end-to-end platforms famous for stability compared to Windows, convinced people to spend hundreds of dollars on an MP3 player and half a grand on a phone, connected with national retailers like Best Buy... but because they don't sell as many OS units as a competitor who has bundling agreeements you think their business model isn't particularly good.

Pundits are always clear on how they know better than Apple does what Apple needs. "OS X should be available for whitebox PCs (and suffer the incompatibilities of Windows)." "Apple should dump OS X and sell PCs preloaded with Windows." And not a one of those pundits actually runs a business outside of consulting. And outside of Dvorak, none of them use OS X.

I think Apple's connection to the corporate market is terrible. Their relationship to the education market has gotten strained. These are valid criticisms of their business model.

But telling a company that grows slowly yet steadily that "you're doing it wrong" is armchair quarterbacking. Any computer company on the verge of its thirtieth birthday, with the same CEO it started with, is by definition successful. Any platform still in development after ten years (NeXTStep becoming OS X) is by definition successful. A platform which has survived not one but two major architecture changes is incredibly successful.

The value of a company isn't how many more units they could sell if they did X regardless of the consequences. Shareholder mentality is responsible for that line of thinking, and short term gains can lead to long term disaster.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: congrats
by jjmckay on Thu 25th Oct 2007 04:21 UTC in reply to "RE: congrats"
jjmckay Member since:
2005-11-11

Thanks snozzbery. Yes amazing profits are good for Apple and thats a valid perspective. They've done well and certainly Apple isn't making the huge mistakes they used to. My saying I don't think their business model is good is from my perspective as how do they benefit me? I can get a mobile phone, play my mp3s and compute with technology that I feel is often better, or at least more open which to me, open is better.

"But telling a company that grows slowly yet steadily that "you're doing it wrong" is armchair quarterbacking."

I'm not saying they are doing it wrong, just that from my perspective as a consumer that their model is not good. I wouldn't place my bets on Apple but if they do well then I'm no worse either. Am I armchair quarterbacking because because I state one opinion? If I was armchair quarterbacking, I'd be e-mailing them what I think they need to do. I'm not. I'm armchair commenting. ;)

Sure they've had individual products that are very good or outright fantastic. I'm meaning something different. Good is a subjective word with regards to that I think 'their business model is not very good.' What is important to me is an open hardware and software market that encourages cooperation and competition at the same time. Apple has always been more authoritarian than I can comfortably chew and I am not seeing that change at all.

I'll try to modify (or refine) my original statement to be more clear as to my point. Instead of saying "I still don't think their business model is particularly good." I'll change that to "I still don't think their business model is particularly good to encourage a vastly larger market to rally around Apple as what has happened with PC architecture." Apple will always be a niche computer manufacturer. Even if their sales rise to %20 of all computers sold, two years later one mistake in one department can bring the whole company down. It's happened before.

As I said, it's a house of cards, albeit less than ever before now that they have their separate iPod and iPhone products. Even those products aren't open accepted standards. Lets see what happens. I'll place my hypothetical bets on the phrase "One day the world giveth, and the next, the world taketh away." I'm not saying they'll go out of business, but that it is not a sustainable market presence because markets like choice and choice is what Apple has consistently taken away from its customers.

Reply Score: 2

RE: congrats
by mbkumar on Thu 25th Oct 2007 00:07 UTC in reply to "congrats"
mbkumar Member since:
2006-06-28

>>>>There are limits to what Apple can do.

True, but who cares. Back in 80's or 90's PCs open platforms mattered more than now because at that time an OS didn't come with so many goodies. So people had to buy lot of software from other companies. And also in those days most of the computer purchases were for work, productivity related.

>>> To me what is more important are open platforms (like the PC)
Nowadays fair share of computers are bought for personal use. For personal use you hardly need any extra software that doesn't come pre-installed, and even if you require something (not pre-installed) to get a task done, a solution is available most probably for free. Also companies like MS and adobe port their apps to Mac, and it covers lot of base in terms of must required software. So these days more people are getting OS-agnostic.
All this helps Apple because they produce good looking & better built (I say) computers than their competitors.

Edited 2007-10-25 00:13

Reply Score: 1

Apple
by Macintosh Sauce on Wed 24th Oct 2007 02:27 UTC
Macintosh Sauce
Member since:
2007-05-03

Latest for Apple...

Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 03:37 PM EDT Apple Stock Quote: 187.69 (+13.33, +7.65%)

Their stock is exploding in the market because of yesterday's report of revenue of 6.22 Billion and almost 1 Billion of that profit. Also, they sold 2.20 Million Macintosh computers - their best quarter ever in company history. Apple is now worth more than IBM and Intel. Google and Microsoft are next.

Shares of Apple Inc. today opened up $13.64, or 7.82% at $188.00 to set a new all-time intraday high and pass the market values of both IBM and Intel.

Apple's market value currently stands at $163,814,662,910.

For reference, some selected current market values:
Microsoft (MSFT) - $290,326,101,760
Google (GOOG) - $206,137,075,350
Apple (AAPL) - $163,814,662,910
Intel (INTC) - $156,278,400,000
IBM (IBM) - $154,610,255,550
Hewlett-Packard (HPQ) - $133,260,024,780
Disney (DIS) - $67,680,019,880
Dell (DELL) - $64,241,243,920
Sony (SNE) - $45,994,645,800
Yahoo! (YHOO) - $40,641,873,724
Amazon (AMZN) - $39,037,267,570
Adobe (ADBE) - $27,031,152,680
RealNetworks (RNWK) - $998,960,040
Napster (NAPS) - $152,192,000

I live for the day when I see Apple overtake Microsoft in market value. muhahahahahahahahahahahahaha There, I am OK now. ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE: Apple
by alcibiades on Wed 24th Oct 2007 07:53 UTC in reply to "Apple"
alcibiades Member since:
2005-10-12

Its a price earnings ratio of about 50, and a price revenue ratio of about 7, in fairly mature markets.

Historically, over a five to ten year period, buying any shares at these price levels has very low or negative returns, because they usually reflect people paying too much for prospects.

One clue to this is how rapid the stock turnover is. The numbers for Apple are quite remarkable. The turnover is a little over 11 times a year. The average holding time is thus a little over one month. Obviously there are many long term holders. This suggests the current price is being set by speculative short term traders, who are moving in and out at extraordinary volumes. Any bad news, and you will see a reversal - as you did one day last month.

Now, there may never be any bad news, in which case all will be well and the price will rise indefinitely. It could be a new era, a new paradigm, and this time it could be different.

What you should perhaps be living for is the day when Apple revenues equal those of MS. Revenues are what they sell. But this might take a while longer.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Apple
by snozzberry on Wed 24th Oct 2007 16:37 UTC in reply to "RE: Apple"
snozzberry Member since:
2005-11-14

Apple's profit margin compared to those other tech companies is much larger. They've resisted calls to compete on price for 20 years and still come out ahead in the long term. If that isn't revenues, I don't know what is.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Apple
by alcibiades on Wed 24th Oct 2007 20:51 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Apple"
alcibiades Member since:
2005-10-12

Revenue = total sales in currency. What you get from customers.

Margin = revenue - cost of goods sold

Profit = revenue - all costs (including cost of goods)


Their profit margin in percentage terms has nothing to do with their revenue. This is why the P/E ratio can be different from the ratio of price to revenues.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Apple
by llanitedave on Wed 24th Oct 2007 16:46 UTC in reply to "Apple"
llanitedave Member since:
2005-07-24

Macintosh Sauce: "I live for the day when I see Apple overtake Microsoft in market value."

Meet the new boss.




Same as the old boss.

Reply Score: 2

NOOOOO!!!!
by tryphcycle on Wed 24th Oct 2007 03:22 UTC
tryphcycle
Member since:
2006-02-16

this is not happening!!!! as a windows dork.... i have predicted the demise of apple over and over again! every year... for the last 15 years... i have said, apple is doomed. they'll be out of business in 3 years! and every year..... "my fat, smelly, gaming, no girl friend, MCSE, self appointed know it all" self has been dead wrong! this can not be true?!?!?! DOS was better than the first Mac... 3.1 was better than system 7, XP was better then 10.2..... and i know deep down in my heart, that Vista is totally better then 10.4.... i'd it????


oh man... and am going to cry!!! where is my hero Steve Ballmar when you need him the most! PLEASE monkey boy.... PLEASE say it aint so!!!

Ok... i am having a nightmare!!! i am going to pinch my self and wake up...and when i do. windows will be every where, we will all be carrying Win Moble phones, MSs stock will be at 187 and share, and all the hot girls will want to play Halo 3 on xbox with me!!!!


ok.... here goes.... PINCH!!!!!!!!!!

AAARRRRRGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

Reply Score: 2

Apple is in a really good spot right now
by Square on Wed 24th Oct 2007 03:58 UTC
Square
Member since:
2005-10-01

Back in 2000~ or so it was easy to see the death of Apple. When their business was basically selling underpowered computers to the fan base. Tied to a CPU that wasn't advancing as fast as it should of, with no other products to keep them afloat.

Now that they have branched into a hugely successful consumer electronics line (ipod-iphone) and switched to x86 they now have plenty of fall back. If the computer line fails they could still sell Mac OS. If Mac OS fails they could still sell computers with windows/linux. And if both fail, they could just sell iPods and the like

Reply Score: 1

snozzberry Member since:
2005-11-14

Back in 2000~ or so it was easy to see the death of Apple. When their business was basically selling underpowered computers to the fan base.

In 2000, the best the Intel line had was the earlier Pentiums. Apple/IBM had the Power line, and it smoked those.

Tied to a CPU that wasn't advancing as fast as it should of, with no other products to keep them afloat.

The CPU issue didn't materialize until 2003, when laptop sales started outpacing desktop sales and this drove technologies like Centrino (making it possible for fast x86 CPUs to run cool and extend battery life by depowering unused channels). IBM showed no interest in developing this capability for the POWER architecture, making G5s impossible for laptops. IBM was keeping pace with Intel on CPU speeds, but with laptops outselling desktops for the first time, Apple was screwed in the long term.

As far as "no other products" is concerned, they had the iPod by 2000. iTunes was originally an OS 9 app. Long before Jobs returned to Apple, an interview with him asked what he'd do if he returned as CEO and his immediate response was branch out into personal media technologies.

If the computer line fails they could still sell Mac OS.

With the stability/compatibility issues of Windows and Linux due to the unpredictable diversity of the PC platform. They experimented with that before even the PPC switch and saw disaster.

If Mac OS fails they could still sell computers with windows/linux.

At current prices, compared to Dell and Toshiba's offerings?

And if both fail, they could just sell iPods and the like

You missed the critical part here. The iPod/iTMS part is what kept the computer division afloat through bad times. Apple ditching the "Computer" part of their name is protection against government-mandated divestiture by the US/EU.

Edited 2007-10-24 17:03 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Apple Reports a Stellar Quarter
by Darkelve on Wed 24th Oct 2007 07:06 UTC
Darkelve
Member since:
2006-02-06

Well, good for them; it's always interesting to see what they've got up their sleeve.

Reply Score: 2

RE: congrats
by Phuqker on Wed 24th Oct 2007 11:47 UTC
Phuqker
Member since:
2005-07-17

I emphatically disagree that their business model isn't good. Apple's success points out the fact that a large segment of the consumer market believes that it's better to have a device or computer in which the hardware and software were designed to complement each other. I don't think this is a market segment that is going to go away any time soon.

For personal computers and "gadgets," I too am a firm believer in this philosophy. Of course, servers are a very different matter ...

Reply Score: 1

Well Done
by siraf72 on Thu 25th Oct 2007 01:14 UTC
siraf72
Member since:
2006-02-22

Self proclaimed apple fan saying : well done ladies and gents at Apple. - SPOILER WARNING- rest of post is about how great Apple is-

I've been a multi-platform user since my uni days. After 8.6 I switched to linux (on my mac hardware.... I hated system 9). I switched back after 10.0 (as crappy as it was). haven't regretted a day since. I still dabble in the MS and linux world every now and again though.

These financial results make perfect sense to me as I have seen it in the real world. in the last year alone i've converted a third of my workplace to apple (much to the detriment of our CTO. No amount of TCO conversations seemed to help, but hey, I'm just the biz dev guy). Over the last two decades I managed to convince non-computer savvy relatives to switch but there has been a real change over the last two years where i've seen everyone from java developers to CCIE's switch. The irony is that one of the biggest Tipping_Points (TM?) seems to have been vista. . ;)

Reply Score: 1

Intelligence:
by Matt24 on Thu 25th Oct 2007 02:28 UTC
Matt24
Member since:
2005-07-23

"Owning a mac is not a sign of intelligence."

Owning a Windows or a Linux system sure is! Those are the systems all those printing, audio, and video studios are working with. Let's not forget all those brilliant students on our universities.

Some people pride them selves in being intelligent because they think they know what a kernel is.

One definition of intelligence could be: Being able to choose the right tools with which you are able to reach your goal with the least amount of effort.

Edited 2007-10-25 02:34

Reply Score: 1