Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 28th Mar 2008 20:36 UTC, submitted by michael135
OSNews, Generic OSes MenuetOS 0.82 has been released. "MenuetOS is an Operating System in development for the PC written entirely in 32/64 bit assembly language, and released under the License. It supports 32/64 bit x86 assembly programming for smaller, faster and less resource hungry applications."
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Released under the Licence.
by BSDfan on Fri 28th Mar 2008 21:23 UTC
BSDfan
Member since:
2007-03-14

Wow, I never knew it was released under "the" licence.. rofl.

The 32bit version is GPL'd.
The 64bit version is proprietary.

Thom, Please proof read article submissions.

Edited 2008-03-28 21:24 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: Released under the Licence.
by Thom_Holwerda on Fri 28th Mar 2008 21:31 UTC in reply to "Released under the Licence."
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Thom, Please proof read article submissions.


Yeah well I make mistakes. I'm just human. No need to be all condescending.

Consider it fixed.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Released under the Licence.
by ohxten on Fri 28th Mar 2008 23:31 UTC in reply to "RE: Released under the Licence."
ohxten Member since:
2008-02-17

Wait... condescending like how you responded to my submission for Whitix 0.03? "Version 0.03 was released a month ago. My, aren't we sharp today." (You were incorrect, by the way. It _wasn't_ released a month ago).

Anyway, back on topic. I must say MenuetOS doesn't impress me much anymore. It's awesome that it's in assembly, and it's real neat, but it has it's flaws. For one thing, being written in assembly, it's not as fast as it should be (or at least, it doesn't feel as fast as even Windows, certainly doesn't feel as fast as *nix). Also, it's not a very good development environment, IMHO.

That being said, MenuetOS is an amazing hobby OS... probably my favorite. Very unique. But since MenuetOS 64-bit was released, it seems that the userbase has been shrinking (or is it just me?)

Reply Score: 4

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Wait... condescending like how you responded to my submission for Whitix 0.03? "Version 0.03 was released a month ago. My, aren't we sharp today." (You were incorrect, by the way. It _wasn't_ released a month ago).


Uhm, that was self-mockery. I was talking about *OSNews*. About myself. I don't 'respond' to submissions, I post news stories. They are attributed to ME, and as such, when I saw 'we' or 'I', it's always about OSNews and myself.

Reply Score: 3

ohxten Member since:
2008-02-17

Fair enough, I misunderstood. No hard feelings, but the way it was written seemed like it was directed towards me. I guess not. ;)

Reply Score: 2

sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

For one thing, being written in assembly, it's not as fast as it should be

Or perhaps some people's expectations of the speed of hand coded assembly versus a good optimizing C compiler are out of date. Writing in assembly is certainly a worthy personal challenge. But the result if of little to no practical benefit. It's supremely unportable, and unlikely to be as well optimized as well written C.

What seems odd to me it the proprietary license they put on the 64 bit version, as if they thought that this nascent OS, imbued with all the advantages that mid 1960's development technologies can give it, is actually worth something in 2008. (Aside from a sense of personal satisfaction to the developers, of course, which would be valid.)

Reply Score: 3

madcrow Member since:
2006-03-13

The developer made it proprietary because he got pissed that some people had some ideas of their own and spun them off in a fork called KolibriOS. Wanting to keep the project wholly "his baby" and not have to share with other people, he was a jerk and closed the source.

Reply Score: 2

Lipatov Kirill Member since:
2007-07-28

As I know, yes it was. Leader of KolibriOS project was a really good gay, but very impulsive. He removed all copyrights after Ville (MenuetOS author) behave with him badly.
Now KolibriOS have another leader and copyright came back to sources. If you don't belive me, you can see them here: http://kolibrios.org/?p=SVN&kind=dir&loc=/kernel/trunk .
Good luck.

P.S. MenuetOS is still great ;)

Edited 2008-03-29 20:39 UTC

Reply Score: 1

sakeniwefu Member since:
2008-02-26

I agree, if a HL-programmer is doing it.

Coders that can write an OS in assembly are not your regular script-kiddie.

I cannot understand how people can trust a dead sloth like GCC to optimize their code hoping that it will be better than hand-crafted assembly.

I think the slowness of MenuetOS is more related to not having HW rendering. You cannot move huge 32-bit bitmaps around with your CPU and expect to run fast. XP is slow with default SVGA drivers, Linux is slow even with semi-accelerated drivers.

Reply Score: 2

sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

I cannot understand how people can trust a dead sloth like GCC to optimize their code hoping that it will be better than hand-crafted assembly.


Please defend that with hard data. While there are no doubt specific places where a human being might do better, in general, the compiler has the advantage when it comes to optimizing large amounts of code. Please
show me where current GCC versions, compiling 'C', generally produce poorer output than a skilled assembly expert applying his skills to writing a whole OS.

Better results would be obtained by using a good optimizing 'C' compiler, profiling, and then applying the assembly experts' skills to those few places where they can really do better.

Reply Score: 3

sakeniwefu Member since:
2008-02-26

Sorry, but this is bullshit.

I am not arguing that asm is more productive than C or ruby, but the code IS faster, and the more code there is the more room there is for optimization.
GCC -O3 switch for x86(Other processors lack that kind of support) has indeed very good code generation and I for one cannot outperform it, but then again I am an assembly noob. A good assembly programmer can, and he or she does it regularly even for medium to large applications.

Go to http://www.flatassembler.net forums and see with your own eyes what elite assembly programmers can do. "fasm" itself, written single-handedly by a Polish guy, for example, can assemble any Linux, libc(BSD,Alternative posix OSes,etc...) or Windows program for 32 or 64 bits using any opcode(There is even an unofficial ARM port) in the time gas takes to start up and there is no question as to which assembler has a powerful macro language in which you can, if those are your inclinations, OOP, RAD and even build wavs or bmps from formula.

Edited 2008-04-01 10:38 UTC

Reply Score: 1

michael135 Member since:
2006-06-21

Menuet has CPU caches disabled by default. When enabled, you'll notice a considerable performance boost.

Edited 2008-03-29 18:48 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Menuet has CPU caches disabled by default.


Sounds like a really smart decision to make in 2008.

Reply Score: 2

Brendan Member since:
2005-11-16

For one thing, being written in assembly, it's not as fast as it should be (or at least, it doesn't feel as fast as even Windows, certainly doesn't feel as fast as *nix).

A fast algorithm in a HLL language will easily beat a slow algorithm in assembly; and well written HLL code will easily beat poorly written assembly code (for the same algorithm).

Reply Score: 1

Cool
by ml2mst on Fri 28th Mar 2008 23:55 UTC
ml2mst
Member since:
2005-08-27

It's really great to see MenuetOS is still in development. From what I've experienced so far, I love it. Gonna' fool around with it tonight for shore.

THNX for the article Thom. I'm pretty much exited about it.

... En laat die zeurneuzen toch de tering krijgen... :-p

Edited 2008-03-28 23:56 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Comment by Syphadias
by Syphadias on Sat 29th Mar 2008 02:52 UTC
Syphadias
Member since:
2008-02-16

It's still around, good to hear!

Reply Score: 3

0.82 - Transparent Windows
by michael135 on Sat 29th Mar 2008 17:32 UTC
michael135
Member since:
2006-06-21

0.82 has real-time transparent windows

http://www.menuetos.net/082a.png

And more..

http://www.menuetos.net/screens.htm

Reply Score: 1

RE: 0.82 - Transparent Windows
by zizban on Sun 30th Mar 2008 14:58 UTC in reply to "0.82 - Transparent Windows"
zizban Member since:
2005-07-06

But all the drivers are VESA, slow and headache inducing.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: 0.82 - Transparent Windows
by sbergman27 on Sun 30th Mar 2008 15:14 UTC in reply to "RE: 0.82 - Transparent Windows"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

But all the drivers are VESA, slow and headache inducing.

Why don't they just whip up some accelerated video drivers in assembly?

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: 0.82 - Transparent Windows
by zizban on Sun 30th Mar 2008 16:12 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: 0.82 - Transparent Windows"
zizban Member since:
2005-07-06

You first.

Reply Score: 3

tU EST Bella
by ashlinux on Tue 1st Apr 2008 19:49 UTC
ashlinux
Member since:
2008-02-06

what a wonderfull bit of masterpiece! In his OWN style none the less!!! Bravo, Bravo!

Reply Score: 1