Linked by David Adams on Fri 16th Jul 2010 19:46 UTC, submitted by aaronb
OSNews, Generic OSes The folks at WineHQ have released the second major stable version of Wine: "This release represents two years of development effort and over 23,000 changes. The main highlights are the support for 64-bit applications, and the new graphics based on the Tango standard. It also contains a lot of improvements across the board, and over 3,000 bug fixes."
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WOOHOO!
by Wodenhelm on Fri 16th Jul 2010 19:54 UTC
Wodenhelm
Member since:
2010-07-16

The more work that gets put into WINE, the better the computing world will become. There's just simply no other way of putting it.

Reply Score: 7

RE: WOOHOO!
by reez on Fri 16th Jul 2010 21:13 UTC in reply to "WOOHOO!"
reez Member since:
2006-06-28

How do you come to this conclusion?

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: WOOHOO!
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Fri 16th Jul 2010 21:41 UTC in reply to "RE: WOOHOO!"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Well, as wine improves, it makes the switch away from windows easier. If it becomes easier to switch away from windows, then windows will have to compete on its own merits ( other than application availability) . You should have more os vendors competing harder on a fairer playing field for your business. That's good for everyone, even those who prefer windows.

Reply Score: 7

RE[3]: WOOHOO!
by kaiwai on Sat 17th Jul 2010 04:16 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: WOOHOO!"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Well, as wine improves, it makes the switch away from windows easier. If it becomes easier to switch away from windows, then windows will have to compete on its own merits ( other than application availability) . You should have more os vendors competing harder on a fairer playing field for your business. That's good for everyone, even those who prefer windows.


The only problem I find these days with Linux is the lack of availability when it comes to big name mainstream software titles; if wine can bridge that gap between the Windows and Linux world then, as you pointed out, the transition will be a whole lot smoother.

With that being said it can be a double edged sword, if venders end up relying too much on wine that you might end up never seeing a native version of said application on Linux. As much as I hear people crow about the virtues of online applications there are still many cases where locally run applications are the preferred option in most cases.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: WOOHOO!
by siride on Sun 18th Jul 2010 05:32 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: WOOHOO!"
siride Member since:
2006-01-02

Windows can already compete just fine on its own merits. Believe me, if Linux as a platform were actually good for desktop apps, they'd be here by now, with or without Wine.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: WOOHOO!
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Sun 18th Jul 2010 05:39 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: WOOHOO!"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Believe You? Uhm.... Okay random internet poster. I'll believe you. Do you have any swamp land to sell me in florida? How about a unique opportunity to buy a historic bridge in brooklyn? Is bill gates giving away money to the to people again for testing email forwarding?

Reply Score: 4

RE[5]: WOOHOO!
by siride on Sun 18th Jul 2010 05:45 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: WOOHOO!"
siride Member since:
2006-01-02

No. Heck, I'm posting this from Linux.

But let's face facts. Windows isn't still winning because people are lazy. Windows is also winning because it actually works for most people, it actually has good APIs and it's actually stable. I know in the past that wasn't always true, but it certainly has been for a while now. Meanwhile, in Linux land, there still is poor graphics driver support. Software updates still break systems. It looks like ass by default, and even with some tweaking. X is still slow. The list goes on. Writing apps for Windows is considerably easier, considerably more documented and the wealth of APIs and frameworks dwarfs whatever Linux has (especially because some of the few good Linux libraries are also available on Windows).

If Linux really were the next big thing and there were money to be made in releasing apps for Linux, it would have happened by now. Linux has had almost two decades to get its act together; it has failed to do so. When you can buy a Windows PC that just works and runs your software, or a Mac that just works and runs your software and looks nice, or get a smartphone that runs a customized Linux or Windows or Mac environment, there's really no room for Linux as a desktop OS. It fills no niche, it doesn't really do anything better for the end user that the other systems don't already do, and in many cases, it's actually a worse experience. If you are a computer enthusiast or freetard, Linux is great. If you are running servers, Linux is great. If you are doing OS research, Linux is fine. If you are making a highly customized embedded OS, Linux is a great foundation. Aside from that, it's a lost cause on the desktop. Accept the truth now instead of waiting forever.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: WOOHOO!
by fithisux on Sun 18th Jul 2010 14:09 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: WOOHOO!"
fithisux Member since:
2006-01-22

The problem with linux is not a unique problem. There are many WOW open source systems. But there is a vast amount of devices with different APIs that absorb developers ' creativity. GFX, Sound, printers, scanners, cameras should have well defined cross-OS standardized interfaces. In other words no special drivers. A generic sound/gfx/... driver and stack that would conform to a standard. As the vendors introduced more capabilities the standard version number should increase. This way Linux, BSD, opensolaris, Haiku could progress. We could see AIX and HPUx for the desktop. But more importantly new ideas could have a lower entry barrrier like uKernel operating systems. Of course ther ecould be some CPU specific stuff but It could be standardized. The problem is deeper and since Linux and other OSes try to tame it I use them. WINDOWS does not print does not play sound does not network does not scan and sees a VESA gfx card no matter how hard MS tries to hide it with cheap tricks. I use it for word because I am required, though I like OO and use it to compile win32 versions of apps besides my Linux versions, but even in this respect it is a hell. And if people are pessimistic about Open Source operating systems there are very good medicines to help you make it through the day.

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: WOOHOO!
by siride on Sun 18th Jul 2010 14:18 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: WOOHOO!"
siride Member since:
2006-01-02

I think I understand you up until half-way through. The rest doesn't make any sense, but whatever.

Standardization is good for a foundation, but it can't be the ultimate solution because no device could ever be "special". That is, it could never do anything outside the standard. It'd be just like any other device. So why not just have one manufacturer for each type of device, with one model that never changes? That's what you want, basically. And you want it only so that you can run your pet OS on your computer. Well, nobody else cares. That's not a business goal of any company to make it so that you can run hobbiest OS 0.0.3-beta. Keep that in mind as you propose unworkable solutions.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: WOOHOO!
by visconde_de_sabugosa on Mon 19th Jul 2010 14:01 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: WOOHOO!"
visconde_de_sabugosa Member since:
2005-11-14

Writing apps for Windows is considerably easier, considerably more documented and the wealth of APIs and frameworks dwarfs whatever Linux has (especially because some of the few good Linux libraries are also


But if it is so difficult program for linux, how can you explain the availability of hundreds of thousands free applications for linux, most made by amateurs ?

I have no doubt that if traditional software houses ported their applications to linux and other platforms only being careful of using multiplatform APIs and libraries, linux would be much more popular.

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: WOOHOO!
by siride on Mon 19th Jul 2010 15:05 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: WOOHOO!"
siride Member since:
2006-01-02

"Writing apps for Windows is considerably easier, considerably more documented and the wealth of APIs and frameworks dwarfs whatever Linux has (especially because some of the few good Linux libraries are also


But if it is so difficult program for linux, how can you explain the availability of hundreds of thousands free applications for linux, most made by amateurs ?
"
You know there are hundreds of thousands of free apps for Windows, too, right? And a bunch of them are open source, too.

Of course, it's easy to put together a hello world app on pretty much any platform. Serious applications are something else. While Qt and to a lesser extent GTK are pretty decent APIs, they really only cover a core of functionality. The Windows development platform has a huge range of APIs, if not documented well by MSDN (and let's face it, MSDN often sucks), they are documented by a plethora of books and online resources.

I've done development on both Linux and Windows and working on the latter is considerably easier and more powerful. The tools for it are much better. The platform is much richer. And you know what? It actually works. And I can deploy apps easily to an array of machines and they work! Well, you have to do some work, of course, but it's nothing like the disaster that is different Linux distros or even versions of distros.

I have no doubt that if traditional software houses ported their applications to linux and other platforms only being careful of using multiplatform APIs and libraries, linux would be much more popular.

Those APIs would have to exist, would have to work and Linux would have to support them.

But also, why? What huge desktop market do these vendors hope to gain traction in by having their apps work on Linux, which is no easy task for real applications (and not the hundreds of thousands of two-bit, buggy, crashy apps that you mention above)? There is almost no value in porting to desktop Linux. And even if they do, their apps won't run as well and won't look as nice and this will not reflect well on them. It's really just not worth it.

Until some distro or consortium gets serious about making a standardized, well-thought out API that is supported by corporations and not basement coders, and that covers not just making simple apps, but all of the other things that real applications need, that the Windows API provides, then nobody is going to care about Linux. And even then, for most people, why switch to Linux when you can use already working Windows or Mac?

I mean, seriously, what is ever going to be the draw for Linux on the desktop? What, besides freedom, will it do better than Windows or Mac? Remember, regular users don't care about the GPL or software patents. And for them, Windows is practically free as well, so the cost issue isn't going to win them over either.

Face it, Linux on the desktop is a non-starter. It will remain a niche for geeks and occasionally used to roll out kiosk computers. Why try to make it anything else?

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: WOOHOO!
by Laurence on Mon 19th Jul 2010 12:43 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: WOOHOO!"
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

Windows can already compete just fine on its own merits. Believe me, if Linux as a platform were actually good for desktop apps, they'd be here by now, with or without Wine.


It was. Netbooks originally came with Linux but then OEMs switched to windows because Microsoft heavily subsidised XP to make Windows netbooks cheaper than Linux (!). So then consumers went for the obvious product: a brand name they recognised (Microsoft) at a cheaper price than a brand they didn't which also cost more.

If you want to call that "Windows competing on the strength it's own merits" then so be it. But I personally call that "Windows competing on the depth of it's pockets".

However you define it, thankfully I still managed to pick up a Linux netbook for the girlfriend and she managed just fine with it as her primary OS for a good year. In fact, she preferred it to Vista (which ran on her laptop).

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: WOOHOO!
by siride on Mon 19th Jul 2010 14:54 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: WOOHOO!"
siride Member since:
2006-01-02

I don't understand why you guys keep thinking that it's nothing but an OEM conspiracy. Windows XP actually works, actually looks nice, actually runs the programs people want to run, so naturally even if MS wasn't pulling some strings, Windows would still win.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: WOOHOO!
by Laurence on Mon 19th Jul 2010 16:41 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: WOOHOO!"
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

I don't understand why you guys keep thinking that it's nothing but an OEM conspiracy.

The point was Windows wasn't winning on the netbook scene.
Windows was too expensive, the license wasn't well suited for netbook use and (IIRC) XP needed a HDD too. So Linux really was the better OS at the time.

Then Microsoft changed the pricing and licensing schemes, which actually made Windows netbooks cheaper than Linux and unsurprisingly the sales trends significantly swapped.

I wouldn't say this was an OEM conspiracy - just standard business practices really. But the sad fact is Microsoft have such an overwhelming monopoly on desktop installs that fair and standard business practices for other companies are anti-competative and highly detrimental for the market when MS perform them.

Windows XP actually works,

So do Linux and OS X. For some people XP works better, for me it performs the worst out of the 3.
There really isn't a great deal between the usability of the big 3 these days. It's really more just down to what the individual user is more familiar with - and that's usually only Windows because Windows is what is installed by default.

actually looks nice,

That's entirely subjective.
Personally I prefer KDE. Some people prefer the default stylings of Ubuntu where as some people hate what Canonical have done with GNOME.

Personally I think XP (without themes) looks dated, with themes it looks bulbous and ugly and Vista/Win7 gives me a headache when used for long periods of time as the glassy effect just gets OTT.


actually runs the programs people want to run,

MS Office ~= OpenOffice / KOffice
Internet Explorer ~= Firefox / Opera / Chromium
Outlook ~= Thunderbird / KMail / Evolution (IIRC)
Nero / Easy CD Creator ~= K3b / plus whatever GNOME ship
WMP / WMC / Winamp / VLC ~= XMMS / VLC / plus whatever KDE and GNOME ship
Photoshop / PSP ~= GIMP
MS Paint ~= There are KDE and GNOME equivelents, names of which I forget

Unless you're doing professional media work (audio, video, photography, etc), Linux is just as capable.
And even for professional work, Linux exists: I know of a few professional music producers that have a Linux set up, I personally have done some "photoshopping" in GIMP for a corperate website and many movie CGI studios run Linux too.

Now I'm not about to say migrating to Linux isn't without it's hitches. But for every Windows app, there is a Linux app too.


so naturally even if MS wasn't pulling some strings, Windows would still win.


Quite possibly. The depressing fact is, because of Microsoft's monopoly - there is no such thing as a level playing field for OSs. Even if each OS were to battle against each other based solely on their own merits, Windows would probably still win simply because it's just good enough for most people.

But for me, being "just good enough" isn't nearly good enough. I want a set up that works as close to perfectly (for my needs) as it can. Windows doesn't do that. In fact Windows often feels several years behind Linux when I want to do even the most basic of Linux functions: mounting being one classic example. No native Windows support for non-NTFS / FAT* file systems. No way to turn images and objects into file systems (eg ISOs via the loopback or Wikipedia articles via a third party driver I've since forgotten the name of).

So yes, Windows is good enough for you, but don't fall into the common trap that thinking your usage is typical of everyone who use a computer. For my girlfriend, a dinky netbook with Firefox and OpenOffice was perfect for her when she was at university. It performed so well she stopped using her Vista laptop. Her choice, not mine. However these days she'd struggle to find a similar netbook as Microsoft have been successful at pushing Windows to OEMs.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: WOOHOO!
by Ventajou on Fri 16th Jul 2010 22:26 UTC in reply to "RE: WOOHOO!"
Ventajou Member since:
2006-10-31

As computer users start drinking more wine, they'll drink less beer and soft drinks. Red wine is a healthier drink as long as you don't abuse it so it will make computer users healthier.

For example if we replaced all the coke and mountain dew with wine then a lot of the basement WoW players would be slimmer. Plus they'd seem more distinguished and mature and therefore would have better chances with the opposite sex.

Reply Score: 14

RE[3]: WOOHOO!
by TechGeek on Sat 17th Jul 2010 01:13 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: WOOHOO!"
TechGeek Member since:
2006-01-14

I'll have you know that I am in a basement drinking coke and I don't play WoW. Of course, it is MY basement,(coolest part of the house) and the coke is sugar free. So watch it there buddy.....

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: WOOHOO!
by debian_avenger on Sat 17th Jul 2010 13:22 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: WOOHOO!"
debian_avenger Member since:
2009-08-27

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38289110/ns/world_news-europe/

Wine will be around for a very long time....

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: WOOHOO!
by nt_jerkface on Sun 18th Jul 2010 14:44 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: WOOHOO!"
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

For example if we replaced all the coke and mountain dew with wine then a lot of the basement WoW players would be slimmer. Plus they'd seem more distinguished and mature and therefore would have better chances with the opposite sex.


Nah they'd just get drunk and yell at each other on Vent.

Reply Score: 2

RE: WOOHOO!
by UltraZelda64 on Fri 16th Jul 2010 21:15 UTC in reply to "WOOHOO!"
UltraZelda64 Member since:
2006-12-05

In a way, it's sad that something like this has to be done to be able to run such a large amount of major software. Wine 1.1.28 is the version that comes with my version of openSUSE (11.2) and I'm actually quite impressed at how well it does work, considering Microsoft is obviously trying to make it as hard as possible to reimplement their OS. The changelog to Wine 1.2 seems pretty impressive as well; maybe it was a while back, but I thought I remembered hearing that 64-bit was not going to be a priority for a while. Either time's flying, or they changed their minds (or were talking short-term). Can't wait to try the new Wine.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: WOOHOO!
by cmost on Sat 17th Jul 2010 13:20 UTC in reply to "RE: WOOHOO!"
cmost Member since:
2006-07-16

Wine 1.1.28 is the version that comes with my version of openSUSE (11.2)...Can't wait to try the new Wine.


You don't have to wait until OpenSUSE 11.3 to try the latest WINE! Simply add the appropriate repository to your system and update away to enjoy the very latest WINE! Don't get drunk! ;-)

Up to date Wine RPMs are available from:

* The openSUSE buildservice, repositories to add:
o SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 10 and SUSE Linux Enterprise Server 10: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/Emulators:/Wine/SLE-10/
o SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 11 and SUSE Linux Enterprise Server 11: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/Emulators:/Wine/SLE-11/
o openSUSE 11.0: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/Emulators:/Wine/openSUSE_...
o openSUSE 11.1: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/Emulators:/Wine/openSUSE_...
o openSUSE 11.2: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/Emulators:/Wine/openSUSE_...

Above URLs provide both "YUM" and old style "YAST" repositories and can be added by the YAST Installation Sources module, rug, zypper or smart.

On AMD64 and EM64T systems the i586 packages are supposed to be used, since a 32bit WINE version is required to run Win32 binaries at this time.

Reply Score: 2

NT4.0 for dvd drcryptor?
by FunkyELF on Fri 16th Jul 2010 21:12 UTC
FunkyELF
Member since:
2006-07-26

I wonder if you'll still have to change your winecfg to be Windows NT 4.0 to be able to use DVD Decryptor.

Reply Score: 2

RE: NT4.0 for dvd drcryptor?
by Fettarme H-Milch on Sat 17th Jul 2010 03:06 UTC in reply to "NT4.0 for dvd drcryptor?"
Fettarme H-Milch Member since:
2010-02-16

I wonder if you'll still have to change your winecfg to be Windows NT 4.0 to be able to use DVD Decryptor.

Why would anyone run that app under Linux? There are native alternatives already that fully work (eg. HandBrake).

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: NT4.0 for dvd drcryptor?
by dylansmrjones on Sat 17th Jul 2010 03:57 UTC in reply to "RE: NT4.0 for dvd drcryptor?"
dylansmrjones Member since:
2005-10-02

HandBrake is not a competitor to DVD Decryptor. HandBrake is a transcoder and as such a competitor to dvd::rip. Neither can rip encrypted DVDs on their own, but need third party applications to perform that action. DVD Decryptor is not a transcoder, but merely a ripper (ripping to essentially the DVD-equivalent of RAW). It can rip encrypted DVDs in a very easy manner - which makes it useful on Linux.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by Kroc
by Kroc on Fri 16th Jul 2010 21:44 UTC
Kroc
Member since:
2005-11-10

Gamepads on Mac! Huzzah! Back to testing ePSXe!

Reply Score: 1

Comment by neticspace
by neticspace on Sat 17th Jul 2010 02:47 UTC
neticspace
Member since:
2009-06-09

This is good for ReactOS, I believe.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Comment by neticspace
by UltraZelda64 on Sat 17th Jul 2010 04:05 UTC in reply to "Comment by neticspace"
UltraZelda64 Member since:
2006-12-05

Definitely. But how's ReactOS been going lately? Still hanging in there? Making continuing progress? Stalled? I haven't heard anything about it in a while.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by neticspace
by gedmurphy on Sat 17th Jul 2010 08:11 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by neticspace"
gedmurphy Member since:
2005-12-23

ReactOS is still going strong.
There's been a lot of huge changes in the kernel in the past 6 months including trap handling, memory management, ACPI, PNP and PCIX to bring it up to date with the modern architectures. Due to these changes releases have been put on hold while the OS re-stabalizes.

There's lots of info in the newsletters on their website.

I think there should be a new release within the next few months.

Edited 2010-07-17 08:12 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Comment by neticspace
by zdzichu on Sat 17th Jul 2010 10:50 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by neticspace"
zdzichu Member since:
2006-11-07

It's funny how you describe support for PCI-X as modern just in time when Intel obsoleted it (after 17 years on market): http://kingofgng.com/eng/2010/06/22/intel-says-farewell-to-pci-bus/

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Comment by neticspace
by VistaUser on Sat 17th Jul 2010 13:07 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by neticspace"
VistaUser Member since:
2008-03-08

AFAIK, PCI and PCIX are not the same thing - the latter being PCI express which is the successor to PCI.

Reply Score: 0

RE[5]: Comment by neticspace
by gedmurphy on Sat 17th Jul 2010 13:24 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by neticspace"
gedmurphy Member since:
2005-12-23

reactos previously had only PCI support, which was flaky at best.
It now has full PCI-X which should support most PCI cards with the exception of some new PCI-Express cards.
This PCI-X driver was also needed for embedded support such as ARM, which is also progressing quite well.

Anyway, this is about Wine, we should go back on topic ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Comment by neticspace
by MamiyaOtaru on Sun 18th Jul 2010 08:51 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by neticspace"
MamiyaOtaru Member since:
2005-11-11

PCI-X is something entirely different from PCI Express
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI-X

Reply Score: 3

pci-x
by dizzey on Sat 17th Jul 2010 14:37 UTC
dizzey
Member since:
2005-10-15

no pci-x is not the short for pci express.
pci-x is the official name for 64bit pci running at 100 or 133mhz. sure some people belive that pci-x is the correct way of shorting down pci express but it is not so.

Reply Score: 4

Aside from the very tangential comments...
by jaklumen on Mon 19th Jul 2010 08:55 UTC
jaklumen
Member since:
2010-02-09

I'm quite enjoying this build of Wine. Games that were not working before are working now.

Reply Score: 1