Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 10th May 2012 23:26 UTC
Intel Intel CEO Paul Otellini on Windows 8 x86 and Windows 8 ARM: "We have the advantage of the incumbency, advantage of the legacy support. Not just in terms of applications but devices." Yes, because the lack of their favourite Windows applications was really a massive hurdle for Apple and its ill-fated iPad effort from a few years ago. Anyone remember that thing?
Order by: Score:
Re: the iPad dig
by MechaShiva on Fri 11th May 2012 00:36 UTC
MechaShiva
Member since:
2005-07-06

I don't think it's something you can dismiss with throwaway comment like that. The iPad, for all intents and purposes, was a new device and Apple wore that perception like a badge. Microsoft, on the other hand, is trying to extend the Windows brand to devices where there really is no logical connection.

In this regard, Otellini is spot on. A Windows device without any connection to Windows legacy software is a Windows device in what way? Familiar usage patterns, familiar software? If Intel has/will have ultra low power chips that can run Windows proper in a similar form factor to the iPad, Windows RT is dead in the water.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Re: the iPad dig
by some1 on Fri 11th May 2012 03:16 UTC in reply to "Re: the iPad dig"
some1 Member since:
2010-10-05

Except that using existing Windows applications in tablet form factor is a pain, as Microsoft itself has learned in their numerous TabletPC attempts going back more than 10 years ago.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Re: the iPad dig
by Alfman on Fri 11th May 2012 05:05 UTC in reply to "RE: Re: the iPad dig"
Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

Actually I would have like to own one, but the market wasn't there at the price they were demanding. Had they closed the outrageous price gap between laptops and tablets, I think the early tablet market would have succeeded.

Also, I wouldn't say they lacked really cool ideas, take courier for example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXiYtMnjAmc

It's interesting to note this was well before apple's tablet and was publically
scheduled to be available by 2009. Inside reports I've read said it was well on it's way to being a real product but was canceled for undisclosed reasons. One theory was microsoft's lack of interest in becoming a direct hardware supplier for customers and licensing disagreements with 3rd party hardware vendors. Another theory is just poor executive decision making. Either way it opened up the window :-) for apple's tablet and the rest is history.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Re: the iPad dig
by Verunks on Fri 11th May 2012 08:43 UTC in reply to "RE: Re: the iPad dig"
Verunks Member since:
2007-04-02

yeah using windows programs with touch might not be the best experience but this is not the same as old tablets where the os was just the standard windows xp with touch input added on top, it's an os optimized for touch input where you can even run legacy applications, if you need them.
For example let's say that vmware doesn't make a metro vsphere client, you can just use the windows one

Reply Score: 1

RE: Re: the iPad dig
by cyrilleberger on Fri 11th May 2012 06:52 UTC in reply to "Re: the iPad dig"
cyrilleberger Member since:
2006-02-01

I don't think it's something you can dismiss with throwaway comment like that. The iPad, for all intents and purposes, was a new device and Apple wore that perception like a badge.


Also, when the netbook were launched, they were shipped with a Linux system, and the #1 complain was that users could not install their favourite application. So it is likely that if people buy a ARM desktop/laptop, they might expect to be able to install non-metro application. Especially since I doubt non-geek people will understand the difference between ARM and x86 (they might actually believe that ARM is like AMD, a cheap version of Intel).

Tablets are an entirely different class of product, so buyers did not have the expectation to be able to run classic applications on them.

Microsoft, on the other hand, is trying to extend the Windows brand to devices where there really is no logical connection.


There is the slight possibility that they are actually switching the brand from Windows to Metro. Which, unlike what most geek thinks, is not something that can happen overnight. Especially when you want to replace such a strong brand as "Windows", so for now, it is "Windows Metro", but I would not be surprised if for the next release it is just "Metro".

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Re: the iPad dig
by bassbeast on Mon 14th May 2012 08:33 UTC in reply to "RE: Re: the iPad dig"
bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

And if they do it will be suicide as billions of dollars worth of systems and applications rely on X86 Windows.

More likely from watching what has been happening under Ballmer's reign at MSFT this is likely to be a "Hail Mary" to try to get them a chunk of the smartphone market but IMHO its a dumb move. You don't crap on a billion dollar cash cow to try to jam your foot in the door of a market where you have ZERO strengths and has two incumbents that are both very powerful AND have better brand identities. hell even my 71 year old non tech dad knows what Android is and Apple is a juggernaut in mobile with iPhone and iPad.

Look we ALL know why they are doing it, its because the MHz wars are over and the PC is a mature platform while ARM is just starting a MHz war of its own. But MSFT had tried repeatedly to break into that market, first with winCE then Zune and then WinPhone 7 but all their flailing and billions wasted barely got them even 5% of the market.

So I'd say Intel is right as the ONLY reason people turn to the windows brand is for Windows X86 programs which ARM simply won't have. if this strategy was gonna work it would have with WinPhone 7 which is a fine smartphone OS, but Android and Apple simply have the better brands in this space with much larger appstores and better product recognition.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Re: the iPad dig
by ilovebeer on Fri 11th May 2012 18:05 UTC in reply to "Re: the iPad dig"
ilovebeer Member since:
2011-08-08

Microsoft, on the other hand, is trying to extend the Windows brand to devices where there really is no logical connection.

So what. They can expand their brand in any way they see fit.

In this regard, Otellini is spot on. A Windows device without any connection to Windows legacy software is a Windows device in what way?

Legacy Windows software has nothing to do with anything. There's no requirement that a new Windows product must support legacy Windows software.

"Windows" is nothing more than the name of a product line. Microsoft decides what's "Windows" and what isn't. They make the rules when it comes to their own products, naming, etc. I think people forget that fact from time to time.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Re: the iPad dig
by bert64 on Sat 12th May 2012 09:41 UTC in reply to "Re: the iPad dig"
bert64 Member since:
2007-04-23

A device thats advertised as windows will lead customers to believe it has the same capabilities as any other windows device, when they find out it doesn't then they will be angry...

I have seen several people buy windows mobile or windows ce based devices expecting to be able to install the same apps they used on their desktop, this leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Re: the iPad dig
by ilovebeer on Sat 12th May 2012 14:22 UTC in reply to "RE: Re: the iPad dig"
ilovebeer Member since:
2011-08-08

A device thats advertised as windows will lead customers to believe it has the same capabilities as any other windows device, when they find out it doesn't then they will be angry...

Advertising Windows products as Windows products is not what could mislead people. Customers who assume and don't bother to actually know what they're buying is what misleads them. Aside of that, every version of Windows, in every iteration has different capabilities so if they haven't learned that by now, well, ...........

I have seen several people buy windows mobile or windows ce based devices expecting to be able to install the same apps they used on their desktop, this leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

...And it's nobody's fault but their own. Most people have done that at some point -- purchased a product without really doing their homework, only to discover it wasn't actually what they needed/wanted/intended to buy. Oops! Lesson learned for them I guess.

Reply Score: 3

Comment by Gone fishing
by Gone fishing on Fri 11th May 2012 07:17 UTC
Gone fishing
Member since:
2006-02-22

Seriously - why would you choose Windows unless it was for MS Office and third party apps?

Shame for MS that Arm netbooks never happened – I wonder why I’d still like one?

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by Gone fishing
by dragos.pop on Fri 11th May 2012 10:13 UTC in reply to "Comment by Gone fishing"
dragos.pop Member since:
2010-01-08


Shame for MS that Arm netbooks never happened – I wonder why I’d still like one?


What about Asus Transformer (Prime).

What I like over a netbook:
- tablet when I need it, Netbook when I need it
- battery
- Android when used as a tablet.

What I don't like:
- Android used as a netbook, It is just something i am not vary used with: full screen, apps...
- Didn't play with it so I don't know how handling it feels

What I would love:
Transformer Prime with Ubuntu for android or
Transformer Prime + Kde Plasma + Kde apps that would adapt to the factor used - ie: if I use the tablet layout of plasma, apps would adapt to a touch form factor ( cleaner interface, big buttons... ).

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Gone fishing
by Gone fishing on Fri 11th May 2012 12:49 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Gone fishing"
Gone fishing Member since:
2006-02-22

I'm considering a Transformer and I think it would be cool running Ubuntu. I'm more thinking of the cheap Arm netbooks that looked possible a year or so ago but never happened.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Gone fishing
by UglyKidBill on Fri 11th May 2012 12:57 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Gone fishing"
UglyKidBill Member since:
2005-07-27

Have you seen their PadFone?
(Check the dock!)

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Gone fishing
by viton on Fri 11th May 2012 14:46 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Gone fishing"
viton Member since:
2005-08-09

Ubuntu is overkill for such a machine.
I use native ubuntu 12 on Toshiba AC100. It is unstable and GPU acceleration is not working (even 2D).

System monitor shows 90% for each CPU core on idle (because it does screen updates). CPU is always warm. This is not happens under Android.

I wonder if Ubuntu for Android will be better.

Edited 2012-05-11 14:48 UTC

Reply Score: 3

Enterprise Applications
by th3rmite on Fri 11th May 2012 13:07 UTC
th3rmite
Member since:
2006-01-08

Intel has a point though. For many corporations I can see where a tablet would be a great benefit, especially if it can run custom in house applications that would only run on x86.

Reply Score: 1

Perhaps ..
by acobar on Fri 11th May 2012 13:58 UTC
acobar
Member since:
2005-11-15

Let me see, would a MS Windows user would like to have a highly portable device with ...
- fast synchronization with MS Outlook and Office docs;
- a basic editor and full previewer for MS Office docs;
- sync for My documents;
- access to some MS enterprise tools;
- access to some MS enterprise services;
- a non-nonsense media management;
yes, I would love and this is from someone that is mostly a linux user, even though I work with MS technology all day.

Most people really don't have all that use for the power desktops and regular portables we have these days. Give them something they can plug a keyboard, mouse and monitor when they arrive at office (preferably through just one plug or dock) and unlock access to services and tools, even through RDP, and that they can use when in the field to consult messages and other informations. One thing with good enough space when traveling back and forth to home to read and play multimedia files and they will have all their needs fulfilled.

Microsoft can deliver, they just need to get their acts straight to do that. They have all the tools they need and just should stop to diverge their efforts on nonsense things. If and when they do that, they will sell their stuff very quickly and by millions.

Edited 2012-05-11 13:59 UTC

Reply Score: 3

Metro designed to sell ... Microsoft
by cjcox on Fri 11th May 2012 14:13 UTC
cjcox
Member since:
2006-12-21

Let's face it.. Microsoft as the ultimate services platform just isn't there. People don't use Microsoft for everything... and a lot of it is because Microsoft wasn't 1st to market with an idea, or their implementation was just plain lousy.

Metro works best IF you are riding the whole Microsoft services stack. It's not that you can't use other things... it's just that by defaut, what comes with it is designed to present a very integrated experience IF you are using the Microsoft services stack...

So.. probably just stating the obvious, but one of the things Metro is attempting to do is to bring users back into the Microsoft fold when it comes to Internet based services they offer. And I suppose you can't blame them for trying.

Reply Score: 2

rock and hard place
by fran on Fri 11th May 2012 14:45 UTC
fran
Member since:
2010-08-06

{Del} by myself

Posted in wrong thread.. lol

Edited 2012-05-11 14:49 UTC

Reply Score: 2