Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 14th Jun 2012 09:37 UTC
Opera Software I'm not sure if such a thing exists anymore (what, with both Firefox and Chrome doing the release-all-the-time thing), but browser season 2012 has been opened! Opera 12 has just been released, bringing with it all sorts of updates and improvements. She may not be the most popular of the pack, but she sure has the most loyal fanbase.
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Opera 12 in 2012...
by zima on Thu 14th Jun 2012 09:44 UTC
zima
Member since:
2005-07-06

Perhaps Opera has a convenient opportunity to shrug off the insanity with version numbers inflation, by moving to date-based versioning scheme? (yes, kinda like Ubuntu)

Though they probably don't care much about this aspect; likewise their "the most loyal fanbase" (that probably includes me).

PS. Not sure what to think about one of the few highlighted skins, that with the Cookie Monster... (from Do-Not-Track inclusion? http://kyon.pl/tag,1,4661,cookie_monster.html ?)

Edited 2012-06-14 09:59 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: Opera 12 in 2012...
by ebasconp on Thu 14th Jun 2012 12:51 UTC in reply to "Opera 12 in 2012..."
ebasconp Member since:
2006-05-09

Actually I guess they are basing their versioning in release years; Opera 9.x was available in 2009; Opera 10.x in 2010 and so on.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Opera 12 in 2012...
by zima on Thu 14th Jun 2012 13:46 UTC in reply to "RE: Opera 12 in 2012..."
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Seems a bit too inconsistent ( http://www.opera.com/docs/history/ ) - 2009 was only the closing year of Opera 9.x, a version which spanned 3 years (OK, 9 could have been more or less the beginning of practice); Opera 10.x was available already in September 2009; and while 11.x seems close enough, middle of December 2010 - now we have 12.x only already halfway through the year.

Either way, now would be a good opportunity to make it more thorough.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Opera 12 in 2012...
by kenji on Fri 15th Jun 2012 16:18 UTC in reply to "Opera 12 in 2012..."
kenji Member since:
2009-04-08

What insanity and what do you mean by 'version inflation'? Seems perfectly sane and typical to me.

Personally, I hate date based release numbers because they feel forced. What I mean is that most commercial programs that use date based versions are:

A) released prior to the year that they reference and

B) use date based versioning to coerce users to upgrade because they perceive the age of the software.

(example: AutoCAD 2012 - and every yearly release - is released in the summer prior, in this case 2011)

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Opera 12 in 2012...
by zima on Fri 15th Jun 2012 19:00 UTC in reply to "RE: Opera 12 in 2012..."
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

The insanity with version inflation of other browsers...

(and the non-date release numbers don't feel often forced by PR? At least dates are impartial)

Reply Score: 2

RE: Opera 12 in 2012...
by libray on Fri 15th Jun 2012 18:03 UTC in reply to "Opera 12 in 2012..."
libray Member since:
2005-08-27

I recall a PC Mag article where John Dvorak thought that MS (with Windows 3.11 ) and other software vendors should move to dated based versioning scheme. Windows 95 did come later making me think he had inside info.

Using dated versions helps the consumer. Consumers know how long an iteration of their software has been on the market. Having a non-dated and arbitrary number scheme allows vendors to sell more due to confusion, as well as fend off the perception that "ShrinkWrap 95", even though it's patched and still used in 2012 is progressive.

MS is back to using a sequential number scheme for Windows.

Edited 2012-06-15 18:04 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Comment by joekiser
by joekiser on Thu 14th Jun 2012 10:53 UTC
joekiser
Member since:
2005-06-30

she sure has the most loyal fanbase.

Maybe not. Judging from the response to the Facebook merger rumor on the Opera forums, a lot of the loyal fanbase has (at least temporarily) moved on. This was a case where the silence was deafening -- Opera's refusal to comment only confirmed that some sort of negotiation was happening. It has only been within the past week that Opera stated that they are not for sale (coincidentally, Facebook stock is off 27% from IPO), but the damage was done at this point. I switched back to Firefox after many years.

An unintended victim of this rumor was Fastmail.fm, but their refusal to refund paid subscriptions for any reason has lessened the immediate impact. I'm sure LuxSci and Runbox saw a spike in new accounts during those two weeks though.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by joekiser
by Soulbender on Thu 14th Jun 2012 12:56 UTC in reply to "Comment by joekiser"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

a lot of the loyal fanbase has (at least temporarily) moved on


I don't think you can be considered "loyal" if an unsubstantiated rumor makes you leave.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Comment by joekiser
by orestes on Thu 14th Jun 2012 22:30 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by joekiser"
orestes Member since:
2005-07-06

I'd agree, to a point. But one would be a fool not to at least be looking into other options in the event the rumor does become substantiated. Opera's been my preferred browser on *nix for a few versions now, but I'll be dropping it like a stone the second facebook's tainted touch enters the picture.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by joekiser
by zima on Sat 16th Jun 2012 10:52 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by joekiser"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

OTOH one could say it's foolish to waste time and effort acting on unsubstantiated rumours...
(especially when, in this case, browser landscape isn't particularly mystifying)

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by joekiser
by joekiser on Thu 14th Jun 2012 22:42 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by joekiser"
joekiser Member since:
2005-06-30

"a lot of the loyal fanbase has (at least temporarily) moved on


I don't think you can be considered "loyal" if an unsubstantiated rumor makes you leave.
"

Loyalty is a two-way street. I can show my loyalty by giving money (as in, paying for the browser as I did years ago, or paying for their premium email service Fastmail.fm, as I currently do). Opera, in return, can show loyalty to me by not (as far as I know) harvesting the data I have in their cloud (which I have been using since the first day they introduced Opera Link). That includes years of bookmarks and browsing history that I have synced to their servers, and the last six years my life that I have stored on Fastmail. Selling out to Facebook would have complicated this relationship, as I do not trust my data with that man.

Opera should have denied the rumor immediately. We were left to speculate that the reason they were being silent for two weeks was because it is a violation to comment about ongoing negotiations to the public. Only very recently in this saga has Opera said it is not for sale, but they still did not deny involvement with Facebook.

I might not be "loyal," but I am not a bandwagon user either. I spent Memorial Day weekend coming up with a contingency plan to migrate from Fastmail.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by joekiser
by kenji on Fri 15th Jun 2012 16:21 UTC in reply to "Comment by joekiser"
kenji Member since:
2009-04-08

...Opera's refusal to comment only confirmed that some sort of negotiation was happening...


You can not infer guilt from silence. Silence is a lack of confirmation nor denial - nothing more.

Reply Score: 2

XMLHttpRequestUpload interface
by vezhlys on Thu 14th Jun 2012 12:01 UTC
vezhlys
Member since:
2005-08-19

XMLHttpRequestUpload interface and drag and drop support are very welcome features. HTML5 uploaders should work on Opera now.

Reply Score: 1

New Opera version, same annoying bugs
by Dave_K on Thu 14th Jun 2012 13:00 UTC
Dave_K
Member since:
2005-11-16

I'm a loyal enough fan to try every new Opera version, but like usual I've ended up disappointed. It works well enough for basic browsing with the default settings, but a lot of the configuration options and unusual features (the things that first made me an Opera fan) remain neglected or broken.

Opera 10.10 was the last version I could use without constantly being frustrated by its glitches. I can't even use the best recent Opera feature (tab stacking) because my sidebar settings somehow break it. Some of the current problems have hung around for years now without much sign of them even being worked on.

Don't get me wrong, there's some good stuff in Opera 12 (CPU usage monitoring is particularly welcome) and I'd definitely encourage people to give it a try, I just wish they'd fix the bloody bugs!

Reply Score: 2

Nico57 Member since:
2006-12-18

Which are?

My favorite one is double-click-and-drag text selection which is inconsistent with pretty much any other Windows app.

I also regret that "tabs in titlebar" requires themes to be turned on, unlike FF and Chrome.

And I'm really looking forward to a chrome-like or even IE-like tab grouping feature (need to look at OpenWindowImprover, which may just be it).

Other than this, I'm glad Opera is still alive and kicking.
Sure, other browsers caught back over the years, and even sometimes marginally improved on it, but still, Opera pretty much invented modern browsing.

Reply Score: 1

Pandora, maybe?
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Thu 14th Jun 2012 13:32 UTC
Bill Shooter of Bul
Member since:
2006-07-14

Opera is my dedicated pandora browser, which works great for an hour or two at a time, before a cascading stream of javascript errors stops the music. I don't know if its pandora or opera's fault. heaven knows there are millions of broken html, css, & js websites out there that browsers make work despite themselves, so I know its not necessarily opera's fault. I guess today I'll find out if pandora has been accommodated one way or the other.

Reply Score: 2

No X-Marks :(
by Tuxie on Thu 14th Jun 2012 21:55 UTC
Tuxie
Member since:
2009-04-22

Opera 12 seems pretty good actually. They seem to have mostly fixed the problems Opera 11 had with GMail (extremely slow JavaScript).

I would be using Opera much more often if it just had X-Marks or some other way to sync bookmarks across platforms and browsers.

Reply Score: 1

RE: No X-Marks :(
by zima on Thu 14th Jun 2012 22:50 UTC in reply to "No X-Marks :("
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

And, inevitably it seems, ~"I would be using Opera much more often if it just had a function which it has for a long time, or in some cases even pioneered" post ;P

http://www.opera.com/link/
http://help.opera.com/Windows/11.60/en/link.html
(includes Opera Mini - working on various so called feature phones, going down in price to sub-50 bucks without contract, probably covers most of "across platforms")

Or, if you also mean across different desktop browsers ...well, that's Xmarks not extending their support for Opera; but BookmarkSync supports it.

Expect that Gmail stuff to come back BTW, it's recurring (across various Google services) - it seems Google doesn't really test their services against Opera (while, not a long time ago, praising its js in a way... http://blog.chromium.org/2010/03/does-your-browser-behave.html & tested speed also being fine)

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: No X-Marks :(
by Tuxie on Thu 14th Jun 2012 23:19 UTC in reply to "RE: No X-Marks :("
Tuxie Member since:
2009-04-22

I know about Opera Link and that stuff. Yes, I wrote "across platforms and browsers" because I use different browsers on different computers/gadgets with different operating systems and I sometimes want to try new major versions of various browsers. X-Marks is keeping it all together and does it well (usually), syncing bookmarks, cookies, etc across them.

I meant exactly what I wrote. I would use Opera more often if it wasn't an own little echo system. BUT, I'm not blaming Opera for it (unless they are denying access to the required APIs), I'm blaming X-Marks for ignoring Opera users.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: No X-Marks :(
by zima on Sat 16th Jun 2012 10:27 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: No X-Marks :("
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Why I also mentioned BookmarkSync.

BTW, I checked out JavaScript Gmail on a machine where such js performance really matters (think netbook-class) - still laggy, still better to use html version or, for such few services, Chrome (well, or native IMAP client; Opera conveniently including one which quite decently integrates with Gmail features)

Reply Score: 2

Opera works well
by Cocaaladioxine on Fri 15th Jun 2012 07:58 UTC
Cocaaladioxine
Member since:
2010-05-10

I've been using Opera for years now.
It does everything I need and does it well.
The only thing I regret is his memory consumption : when you close a tab, it's still in the memory, even if you "empty the closed tabs list".

Apart from this point, it's stable, it offers the same look and feel on every platform, it runs on my Galaxy S, Opera Link is perfect for me, mouse gestures are a must as soon as you are used to it, Dragonfly is just behind Firebug (but so close that I don't need firebug anymore), Turbo is a very good stuff when you have old/bad connection, I love being able to save personnal datas that Opera propose when filling a form... (And I still, I forgot so much great things!)

Ok, some website don't run ok (my bank for exemple). So from time to time I have to use FF of IE. But I don't care because it so rare....

So, I love Opera, and I share it !!!

Reply Score: 1

RE: Opera works well
by Nico57 on Fri 15th Jun 2012 21:20 UTC in reply to "Opera works well"
Nico57 Member since:
2006-12-18

Opera used to be a memory champion (had it running with well over 200 tabs!), but I agree this might not be the case anymore.

Chrome was pretty bad in this area, presumably because of process separation, and seems to have improved lately (it does seem to group a bunch of tabs in the same process now).
Still I had it crash badly on startup a few days ago, reloading the last set of tabs, while everything was running smooth just before (had to unplug the network, run Chrome, plug in back and reload tabs one by one...)

Overall memory behavior is not something easy to test for.
Even when a browser runs fine with a large specific set of tabs, memory often increases over time (days, weeks) just like you said, and the whole thing can crawl to swapping hell.

Reply Score: 1

Opera everywhere
by mfaudzinr on Fri 15th Jun 2012 10:42 UTC
mfaudzinr
Member since:
2008-02-13

It's Opera on my desktop and android mobile. It may not be perfect but as Grace Jones used to sing "...I'm not perfect but I'm perfect for you...". Rightly so... :-)

Reply Score: 1

RE: Opera everywhere
by kenji on Fri 15th Jun 2012 16:25 UTC in reply to "Opera everywhere"
kenji Member since:
2009-04-08

+1

Well said. Opera is my favorite and it does just what I need even though I don't use it exclusively.

Reply Score: 2

opera12 looks good
by videoreco on Mon 18th Jun 2012 08:12 UTC
videoreco
Member since:
2012-06-18

It is sounds very good ,I will try later,for recently I'm using http://www.video-recorder.net/mac-screen-recorder-studio.html">... to do screen recording.The software really easy to use.

Reply Score: 1