Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 9th Jun 2017 09:41 UTC
Apple

Drag and Drop has arrived in iOS 11! Learn the fundamentals behind the new iOS Drag and Drop - architecture and APIs. This session will go over the design goals, architecture and key components of the API to allow you to quickly adopt Drag and Drop in your App.

Drag and drop seems like a boring feature, but on iOS 11 and the iPad, it's actually quite interesting and implemented in a novel way. This WWDC session starts with a demo, showing off how you can use multiple fingers to drag multiple things, combine different dragged objects, while still being able to interact with other touch UI elements. Sadly, Apple decided to cripple drag and drop on the iPhone, restricting it to only being able to drag and drop within a single application.

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Comment by Morgan
by Morgan on Fri 9th Jun 2017 10:47 UTC
Morgan
Member since:
2005-06-29

Streaming is available in Safari, and through the WWDC app.


WTF Apple? You want to reach the widest audience possible, yet you restrict your promotional video to people who already own iDevices?

Reply Score: 5

RE: Comment by Morgan
by Sidux on Fri 9th Jun 2017 10:54 UTC in reply to "Comment by Morgan"
Sidux Member since:
2015-03-10

They offer the option to download the videos as well (HD or SD).
<sarcasm>If you're interested in developing for iOS / OSX (macOS) why would you consider any other platform?</sarcasm>

Edited 2017-06-09 10:55 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Comment by Morgan
by Morgan on Fri 9th Jun 2017 11:46 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Morgan"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

Ironically that would be my instinct if I were trying to watch from either my Haiku box or my OpenBSD laptop. But on the latest Firefox on Windows 10? That's just plain spite on their part; there's no technical reason to restrict that browser/OS combo, and Thom was able to get it working in Edge (though I couldn't) which I would think Apple would choose to artificially block before Firefox.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Comment by Morgan
by Thom_Holwerda on Fri 9th Jun 2017 10:56 UTC in reply to "Comment by Morgan"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

"Streaming is available in Safari, and through the WWDC app.


WTF Apple? You want to reach the widest audience possible, yet you restrict your promotional video to people who already own iDevices?
"

Edge works too.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Comment by Morgan
by Morgan on Fri 9th Jun 2017 11:41 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Morgan"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

Hmmm...not for me. In Edge I get a certificate error for the site itself and if I click through, I get "Invalid source" in the video box.

Oh well, I guess I can dig my 2006 Mac mini out of the closet if I really have to see the video.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by Morgan
by The123king on Fri 9th Jun 2017 11:30 UTC in reply to "Comment by Morgan"
The123king Member since:
2009-05-28

They've been doing that for years.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Comment by Morgan
by nbensa on Fri 9th Jun 2017 13:35 UTC in reply to "Comment by Morgan"
nbensa Member since:
2005-08-29

youtube-dl ;-)

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by Morgan
by Kochise on Fri 9th Jun 2017 20:44 UTC in reply to "Comment by Morgan"
Kochise Member since:
2006-03-03

How could Apple owners feels special if everyone else could access their exclusive materials as easy than browsing the Internet ?

Btw, after buying Beats, they could hire Al Gore, because, you know, he invented the Internet, so that they could make it exclusive to Apple owners too.

After all, it is a revolution.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Comment by Morgan
by daveak on Sun 11th Jun 2017 10:27 UTC in reply to "Comment by Morgan"
daveak Member since:
2008-12-29

"Streaming is available in Safari, and through the WWDC app.


WTF Apple? You want to reach the widest audience possible, yet you restrict your promotional video to people who already own iDevices?
"

Video from Apple's World Wide Developer Conference, hosted on developer.apple.com, targeted at iOS developers only viewable on Apple devices, which said developers need to have already. These videos are not intended as generic promotional videos. Do you see a plain white background and Jony Ive talking about things being magical in it?

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Morgan
by Alfman on Sun 11th Jun 2017 16:50 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Morgan"
Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

daveak,

Video from Apple's World Wide Developer Conference, hosted on developer.apple.com, targeted at iOS developers only viewable on Apple devices, which said developers need to have already. These videos are not intended as generic promotional videos. Do you see a plain white background and Jony Ive talking about things being magical in it?


Is that really useful to block views on other computers though? Like Morgan, I clicked the link and could not view it. Just because I'm browsing from a different platform doesn't mean I'm not interested and it doesn't even mean I'm not a target developer. Maybe I develope IOS apps at work, yet my home PC is running linux. IMHO this is counterproductive on their part.

Edited 2017-06-11 17:01 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Comment by lkurusa
by lkurusa on Fri 9th Jun 2017 11:02 UTC
lkurusa
Member since:
2016-12-29

> Sadly, Apple decided to cripple drag and drop on the iPhone.

I wonder why did they do that. There are many times when drag and drop would be useful (think, emails and attachments). The traditional "share" interface seems a bit odd sometimes. Though I guess having drag and drop on a small screen could also make it feel quirky.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by lkurusa
by Sidux on Fri 9th Jun 2017 12:57 UTC in reply to "Comment by lkurusa"
Sidux Member since:
2015-03-10

Probably the same reason they decided to go for 120 Hz screen on the iPad leaving the iPhone out.
It would have been nice to have it on both but iPads must have a selling point nevertheless.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by lkurusa
by darknexus on Fri 9th Jun 2017 15:48 UTC in reply to "Comment by lkurusa"
darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

I'm trying to think how it would work on the iPhone screen, even the Plus size (which I use). It could have some limited use I suppose, in that you could drag something to a dock icon or to another part of the screen you're already using, but it's primary use for me (dragging between multiple apps or panes) wouldn't exactly work on a screen that size.

Reply Score: 2

Wow
by soviet9922 on Fri 9th Jun 2017 20:53 UTC
soviet9922
Member since:
2015-02-18

They got copy and paste and now Wow!!! drag and drop ?, what will be next a mouse cursor ?.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Wow
by Morgan on Fri 9th Jun 2017 22:29 UTC in reply to "Wow"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

Don't hold your breath, they waited until Steve passed to release the Pencil, something he was staunchly against and considered a loser's interface.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Wow
by Tony Swash on Sat 10th Jun 2017 13:47 UTC in reply to "RE: Wow"
Tony Swash Member since:
2009-08-22

Don't hold your breath, they waited until Steve passed to release the Pencil, something he was staunchly against and considered a loser's interface.


What a silly comment. During the original iPhone launch event Steve Jobs (rightly) rejected using a stylus as a generic input system. The Pencil is not a generic input system. The Pencil is a specialist tool for graphic creation used by a small but important group of creative content creators. If you cannot see the difference then there is something wrong with you.

The key point is of course that today nobody uses a stylus as the generic input device on an iOS device.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Wow
by Morgan on Sat 10th Jun 2017 14:56 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Wow"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

If you cannot see the difference then there is something wrong with you.


An ad hominem attack indicates that the attacker has no real argument and resorts to attacking one's character instead. :-)

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Wow
by Tony Swash on Sat 10th Jun 2017 18:04 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Wow"
Tony Swash Member since:
2009-08-22

" If you cannot see the difference then there is something wrong with you.


An ad hominem attack indicates that the attacker has no real argument and resorts to attacking one's character instead. :-)
"

You are continuing to be silly

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Wow
by No it isnt on Sun 11th Jun 2017 08:14 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Wow"
No it isnt Member since:
2005-11-14

No all invectives are ad hominem arguments, you sack of shit.

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: Wow
by Morgan on Sun 11th Jun 2017 18:09 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Wow"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

My bad, did I forget to worship at the House of Steve again? Punish me master, I've been a bad kitty. Mrawr. :-)

Reply Score: 3

RE[6]: Wow
by acobar on Mon 12th Jun 2017 13:04 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Wow"
acobar Member since:
2005-11-15

I may be wrong, but the last one seems like sarcasm to me. ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Wow
by Morgan on Tue 13th Jun 2017 22:05 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Wow"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

Was the "mrawr" too much? Coming on too strong? I gotta learn to hold that shit in...

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Wow
by Alfman on Sat 10th Jun 2017 15:50 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Wow"
Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

Tony Swash,

What a silly comment. During the original iPhone launch event Steve Jobs (rightly) rejected using a stylus as a generic input system. The Pencil is not a generic input system. The Pencil is a specialist tool for graphic creation used by a small but important group of creative content creators. If you cannot see the difference then there is something wrong with you.


I personally disagree, the bluntness of fingers has an adverse effect on general usability. Even one of the most basic tasks at work and school, taking notes, remains quite problematic without a stylus or keyboard. Ever since the touch input came around, data entry has remained tedious. I'm not exaggerating in the least when I say I prefer pencil and paper compared to a phone/tablet without a stylus. Websites themselves are being dumbed down to compensate for the inadequacies of blunt input on mobiles.

And that's the main problem as I see it, the only way we can make the argument that input precision is only important to some special niche is by first dumbing down the expectations for the general population.

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: Wow
by Tony Swash on Sat 10th Jun 2017 18:02 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Wow"
Tony Swash Member since:
2009-08-22

Tony Swash,

"What a silly comment. During the original iPhone launch event Steve Jobs (rightly) rejected using a stylus as a generic input system. The Pencil is not a generic input system. The Pencil is a specialist tool for graphic creation used by a small but important group of creative content creators. If you cannot see the difference then there is something wrong with you.


I personally disagree, the bluntness of fingers has an adverse effect on general usability. Even one of the most basic tasks at work and school, taking notes, remains quite problematic without a stylus or keyboard. Ever since the touch input came around, data entry has remained tedious. I'm not exaggerating in the least when I say I prefer pencil and paper compared to a phone/tablet without a stylus. Websites themselves are being dumbed down to compensate for the inadequacies of blunt input on mobiles.

And that's the main problem as I see it, the only way we can make the argument that input precision is only important to some special niche is by first dumbing down the expectations for the general population.
"

The comment and my response was not about the desirability of using a stylus as opposed to a finger on a touch interface. The comment was suggesting that by introducing the Pencil Apple had somehow been forced to admit that Jobs was wrong in his original comments about using a stylus during the iPhone launch keynote.

My response was that the original commentator was wrong and that it was a silly thing to say because even a cursory viewing of the the original Jobs keynote would make it absolutely clear that Jobs comments about the stylus were referring to the use of a stylus as the general and main way to interact with a touch screen.

Anybody who thinks that the Apple Pencil is designed to be, or is actually being used as, the main way to interact with the touch screen on an iPad is being deliberately obtuse.

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: Wow
by Alfman on Sat 10th Jun 2017 19:06 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Wow"
Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

Tony Swash,

My response was that the original commentator was wrong and that it was a silly thing to say because even a cursory viewing of the the original Jobs keynote would make it absolutely clear that Jobs comments about the stylus were referring to the use of a stylus as the general and main way to interact with a touch screen.
...
Anybody who thinks that the Apple Pencil is designed to be, or is actually being used as, the main way to interact with the touch screen on an iPad is being deliberately obtuse.



There's plenty of room to disagree with steve jobs, even if you choose not to. By not including a stylus as standard, it changed the course of mobile technology. Developers would be putting the stylus to good use in their applications if it were standard. High precision interactions are automatically ruled out specifically because consumers lack stylus input on their mobile devices.

Speaking of stylus interfaces, I'm reminded of the microsoft courier technology demo from so many years ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlpftPSuXe4

You gotta admit it's cool. If apple had incorporated a stylus in this way, I'm sure you'd be a fan of it for regular users ;) All these years later and it still looks better than what we've got.

Edited 2017-06-10 19:18 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[6]: Wow
by Megol on Sat 10th Jun 2017 19:57 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Wow"
Megol Member since:
2011-04-11

An intelligent way to do it is supporting an active stylus and detect when the stylus is used to adapt the interface. However that removes the choice how to use a device from Apple and places it in the hands of the user - and Jobs didn't like that.

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Wow
by Alfman on Sat 10th Jun 2017 20:40 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Wow"
Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

Megol,

An intelligent way to do it is supporting an active stylus and detect when the stylus is used to adapt the interface. However that removes the choice how to use a device from Apple and places it in the hands of the user - and Jobs didn't like that.


Yea, I feel there's a lot of innovation that could happen on the software side (that courier demo is a great start). I think of finger and stylus as complementary input methods rather than entirely exclusive to one another. But the truth is that the vast majority of software developers will never get a say, it's up to the hardware companies to support a stylus. And if they don't include a stylus, then software developers end up having to optimize for a low density input experience.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Wow
by Megol on Sat 10th Jun 2017 19:53 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Wow"
Megol Member since:
2011-04-11

"Don't hold your breath, they waited until Steve passed to release the Pencil, something he was staunchly against and considered a loser's interface.


What a silly comment. During the original iPhone launch event Steve Jobs (rightly) rejected using a stylus as a generic input system. The Pencil is not a generic input system. The Pencil is a specialist tool for graphic creation used by a small but important group of creative content creators. If you cannot see the difference then there is something wrong with you.
"

Pens and pencils are still used all over the world. And finger painting is for kids.


The key point is of course that today nobody uses a stylus as the generic input device on an iOS device.


Because it isn't really supported...

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Wow
by Tony Swash on Sun 11th Jun 2017 14:20 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Wow"
Tony Swash Member since:
2009-08-22


"
The key point is of course that today nobody uses a stylus as the generic input device on an iOS device.


Because it isn't really supported...
"

And so your chain of illogical non-sequiturs grows even longer.

You started with the claim that the introduction of the Pencil was Apple’s tacit acceptance that Jobs was wrong on the undesirability of using a stylus as the interface mechanism on touch devices.

Now you claim that the Pencil cannot actually be used as the interface mechanism on touch devices.

What you say has no coherence.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Wow
by Morgan on Sun 11th Jun 2017 18:08 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Wow"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

You started with the claim that the introduction of the Pencil was Apple’s tacit acceptance that Jobs was wrong on the undesirability of using a stylus as the interface mechanism on touch devices.

Umm, Megol didn't say that, I did. I think at this point you're just arguing for argument's sake, not even paying attention to the thread itself.


What you say has no coherence.

...nah, never mind, you're making it too easy.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Wow
by Megol on Sun 11th Jun 2017 18:15 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Wow"
Megol Member since:
2011-04-11

"
[q]
The key point is of course that today nobody uses a stylus as the generic input device on an iOS device.


Because it isn't really supported...
"

And so your chain of illogical non-sequiturs grows even longer.

You started with the claim that the introduction of the Pencil was Apple’s tacit acceptance that Jobs was wrong on the undesirability of using a stylus as the interface mechanism on touch devices.

Now you claim that the Pencil cannot actually be used as the interface mechanism on touch devices.

What you say has no coherence. [/q]

The coherency problem is on your side. You complain at my post while referring to an original post by another poster.

But even if I was the poster you thought I was there is no coherency problems - you claimed nobody uses a stylus as the generic input device - and if the system isn't designed for that and gives no advantages when doing it why would people try something else? That's logical _and_ coherent.

Long before the Iphone launched I ran a smartphone (called PDA at the time) which supported a stylus and could be used without one if needed. While not 100% supported the interface could scale somewhat and for many programs I choose to use the stylus as it made for a better experience.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Wow
by Sidux on Sat 10th Jun 2017 20:03 UTC in reply to "RE: Wow"
Sidux Member since:
2015-03-10

Steve was showing the iPad besides the iPhone and Mac.
These days though iPads are marketed and sold as laptop replacement by Apple.
Since they are stubborn enough to not include mouse input support into iOS they had to "revise" the stylus and call it a pencil for taking notes and drawing.

Reply Score: 2