Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 27th Jan 2018 00:47 UTC
Windows

Following the publication last year of the data collected by Windows 10's built-in telemetry and diagnostic tracking, Microsoft today announced that the next major Windows 10 update, due around March or April, will support a new app, the Windows Diagnostic Data Viewer, that will allow Windows users to browse and inspect the data that the system has collected.

While I doubt this tool will alleviate any of the concerns some people have over Windows 10's data collection, it does at least give some insight into what's being sent to Microsoft - assuming, that is, you trust the reporting to be truthful and accurate.

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Trusted Computing
by quackalist on Sat 27th Jan 2018 01:03 UTC
quackalist
Member since:
2007-08-27

You josh, would any reader of OSnews be foolish enough to trust such reporting. I think not , even if it was true...

Reply Score: 2

RE: Trusted Computing
by grat on Sat 27th Jan 2018 02:15 UTC in reply to "Trusted Computing "
grat Member since:
2006-02-02

Precisely.

Because everyone is "smarter" than that, in spite of the fact Microsoft would be complete and utter morons to release a tool that was later proven to lie about what data they collect, even though it would open them up to massive class action lawsuits.

Microsoft has a huge incentive to be absolutely transparent here, and practically no reason whatsoever to lie or obfuscate.

That doesn't matter any longer though, because society has no interest in "true" or "false".

Our "news providers" are "entertainment companies", and have no obligation to report the truth, the American President lies, and calls out any attempts to correct him as "fake news".

And the internet is full of self-opinionated blowhards who have no idea what the truth is, but they'll repeat whatever they heard, because it makes them look cool.

Microsoft could open up their entire codebase to the public, and people would STILL believe they were hiding something.

Apple, meanwhile, releases incredibly insecure software, hides billions in tax revenue, slows down their older phones deliberately, and created the original walled garden (iTunes) and replaced it with an even more locked-in walled garden (App Store!) and people still think they're the greatest computer company that ever existed.

As a society, I don't think we're capable of recognizing "truth" any longer. Our signal to noise ratio has hit zero.

Reply Score: 6

RE[2]: Trusted Computing
by leech on Sat 27th Jan 2018 03:06 UTC in reply to "RE: Trusted Computing "
leech Member since:
2006-01-10

Yeah, some of the shit Apple has pulled recently (and not so recently) has even opened up the eyes of some of their biggest fans. Yet there are still those die hards that would still buy their products because they are convinced they are still the best option, mostly without ever trying another option.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Trusted Computing
by b00gie on Sat 27th Jan 2018 06:07 UTC in reply to "RE: Trusted Computing "
b00gie Member since:
2006-06-09

Only technologically (or politically) naive people give a blank cheque of permissions.

I recommend you to read "Reflections on Trusting Trust" by Thompson and search for Debian's reproducible builds project.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Trusted Computing
by Andrzej on Sat 27th Jan 2018 08:00 UTC in reply to "RE: Trusted Computing "
Andrzej Member since:
2017-03-07

Microsoft never lied to us before. They have no reason to do so. That's why they are always open, never hide anything. Their sources are open to public and they don't contain any stolen code. They never attack any other company on false basis, they never buy a company just to shut down its business. This is, my friend, best thing that happened to humanity since invention of a wheel. That's why we should trust them when they say we should trust them. POTUS is a completely different thing. His office is aimed at making money in any way possible, no matter the cost, by principle.

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Trusted Computing
by grat on Sat 27th Jan 2018 19:47 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Trusted Computing "
grat Member since:
2006-02-02

Your sarcasm is failing. I never said, or implied any of that.

I said it doesn't matter whether Microsoft is telling the truth, because no one cares about the actual truth any longer-- merely the perceived truth.

Once upon a time, if you wanted to claim someone was lying, you needed actual proof. Now, even if you have proof, no one will believe you.

Hard to believe we went from the "information age" to the "post truth" age... but never underestimate society's ability to screw itself.

Reply Score: 5

RE[4]: Trusted Computing
by Gargyle on Sun 28th Jan 2018 14:12 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Trusted Computing "
Gargyle Member since:
2015-03-27

I said it doesn't matter whether Microsoft is telling the truth, because no one cares about the actual truth any longer-- merely the perceived truth.


You also said this:

Because everyone is "smarter" than that, in spite of the fact Microsoft would be complete and utter morons to release a tool that was later proven to lie about what data they collect, even though it would open them up to massive class action lawsuits.

Microsoft has a huge incentive to be absolutely transparent here, and practically no reason whatsoever to lie or obfuscate.


Which implies you don't expect MS to lie because they cannot afford to, which frankly is a laughable argument.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Trusted Computing
by grat on Mon 29th Jan 2018 04:41 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Trusted Computing "
grat Member since:
2006-02-02


Which implies you don't expect MS to lie because they cannot afford to, which frankly is a laughable argument.


What can I say? The sarcasm tags are missing. But, no, Microsoft can't afford to be perceived as lying here-- the mere fact that they released the tool says Microsoft believes they have to be more transparent.

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Trusted Computing
by dionicio on Sun 28th Jan 2018 01:12 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Trusted Computing "
dionicio Member since:
2006-07-12

We Can Always Keep On without truth.

But every time it happens, We are at War.

I'm quite upset at the policies of the industry. But wouldn't like to start a digital War.

We NEED, to fix this, to make the Military Internet, finally Civilian.

Our colective futures depend on it.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Trusted Computing
by stormcrow on Sat 27th Jan 2018 17:44 UTC in reply to "RE: Trusted Computing "
stormcrow Member since:
2015-03-10

Microsoft is being both transparent and obfuscating at the same time with this tool. They can point at it and say "Oh, we're telling you what's going to our servers!" and that is one face of the truth. But they're withholding what the meaning of data being sent is. If you're looking at 0x4523FACB without context, it's just a hex number without meaning other than its arithmatic value. It's meaningless without the interpretive information. That's what's going on here.

The reason we can't "recognize the truth" any more is because no one is TELLING the full truth. Even Microsoft isn't telling the full truth here.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Trusted Computing
by grat on Sat 27th Jan 2018 19:48 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Trusted Computing "
grat Member since:
2006-02-02

Are you basing this on an objective evaluation of their new tool?

Or are you merely speculating?

Reply Score: 3

v RE[2]: Trusted Computing Really ???
by user78 on Sat 27th Jan 2018 22:19 UTC in reply to "RE: Trusted Computing "
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Are you that clueless or just a bad troll? Reasons for HDD thrashing while torrenting could be numerous... like for example that it's an old, fragmentned OS install and a popular torrent, with lots of peers / transfers of different fragments of the file, scattered across the disk.
And your ISP sees all your traffic, that's all they need to have to know you're torrenting.
And I suppose you don't realize that most seeder boxes are run on Linux... (not to mention servers in general)

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Trusted Computing
by l3v1 on Sun 28th Jan 2018 11:04 UTC in reply to "RE: Trusted Computing "
l3v1 Member since:
2005-07-06

Microsoft has a huge incentive to be absolutely transparent here, and practically no reason whatsoever to lie or obfuscate.

That doesn't matter any longer though, because society has no interest in "true" or "false".


Trust is not easy to acquire, but it's very easy to lose. And once lost, it doesn't matter how many cynical or sarcastic followers you line up, how many apps you make, tools you release, it still will take you more time than you can afford to get it back. Its just how it is. Speaches like "society has no interest in" have no place in such a context, since this is not a religious or social issue. Never was, never will be.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Trusted Computing
by Dr.Cyber on Mon 29th Jan 2018 15:41 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Trusted Computing "
Dr.Cyber Member since:
2017-06-17

"Microsoft has a huge incentive to be absolutely transparent here, and practically no reason whatsoever to lie or obfuscate.

That doesn't matter any longer though, because society has no interest in "true" or "false".


Trust is not easy to acquire, but it's very easy to lose. And once lost, it doesn't matter how many cynical or sarcastic followers you line up, how many apps you make, tools you release, it still will take you more time than you can afford to get it back. Its just how it is. Speaches like "society has no interest in" have no place in such a context, since this is not a religious or social issue. Never was, never will be.
"
Microsoft still got plenty trust after they pulled of their bait & switch scam to trick people into upgrading to Windows 10. In fact Microsoft has done a lot of nasty things and never lost trust. Observations indicate that trust is actually pretty hard to lose for Microsoft.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Trusted Computing
by zima on Tue 30th Jan 2018 18:18 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Trusted Computing "
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

You're sure it's not a religious issue at least to some? ;)

Reply Score: 2

v RE[2]: Trusted Computing
by Dr.Cyber on Mon 29th Jan 2018 15:23 UTC in reply to "RE: Trusted Computing "
all???
by codifies on Sat 27th Jan 2018 13:16 UTC
codifies
Member since:
2014-02-14

All data? you trust them? really? more like this is just we are going to own up to slurping...

by rights no government employee (of any government!) should be allowed to use this os...

Reply Score: 1

Best wishes...
by dionicio on Sun 28th Jan 2018 01:05 UTC
dionicio
Member since:
2006-07-12

Thanks to Microsoft People. Maybe -just maybe- smashing the issue into consumers cotidianity, could make the glacier finally start walking.

This is a huge change on the Corp politics, with efects on the bottom line.

Reply Score: 1

Diagnostic Data Viewer really gives insight!
by ml2mst on Mon 29th Jan 2018 11:15 UTC
ml2mst
Member since:
2005-08-27

Yes, the brand new Diagnostic Data Viewer really gives insight in what data exactly is sent to the Microsoft Mother-ship (Rolls Eyes). I made a screenshot for you. Good luck figuring out the Gibberish ;-)

http://s1057.photobucket.com/user/ml2mst2/media/DDV.jpg.html

Reply Score: 0

Don't use Windows or Mac
by cmost on Mon 29th Jan 2018 11:19 UTC
cmost
Member since:
2006-07-16

If you want an OS that doesn't track your every move and report back to mamma then run Linux or BSD UNIX. It is as simple as that.

Reply Score: 1

Doubts?
by xgff on Mon 29th Jan 2018 13:24 UTC
xgff
Member since:
2013-04-21

Reporting must be truthful and accurate since GDPR ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation ) will take effect on 25 May 2018 in EU. After that date MS must comply with EU regulation.

Reply Score: 3

v Comment Title
by Dr.Cyber on Mon 29th Jan 2018 15:01 UTC
Paranoia
by Megol on Mon 29th Jan 2018 15:11 UTC
Megol
Member since:
2011-04-11

There's a difference between having a healthy skepticism and having paranoid delusions.

Here we already have the "we can never trust closed source" argument, the "they will lie" argument and a lot more that are delusional. Crazy in other words.

You can already see what Microsoft sends if you want to, just make sure to log everything sent to their servers and go through it. You can do it, people skilled in reverse engineering can do it just as they do with everything else.

If someone could show that MS pushes any data but what they claim that person/group would gain fame and money (plenty of people wanting skilled security researchers).

The one that can show MS in some way exposes users when collecting some data (intentionally or accidentally) the same applies. Money and fame have still not produced anything like that.

And the same of course applies when they will directly expose the data sent from a certain computer - show just one thing omitted.

But talk is cheap.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Paranoia
by Gargyle on Mon 29th Jan 2018 16:04 UTC in reply to "Paranoia"
Gargyle Member since:
2015-03-27

You can already see what Microsoft sends if you want to, just make sure to log everything sent to their servers and go through it. You can do it, people skilled in reverse engineering can do it just as they do with everything else.

Can you, now?

Don't you think they would have thought about people snooping around their data traffic? Maybe they even hired a bright light that thought about implementing encryption before sending that data out in the open!

I'm guessing...

Reply Score: 0

Nobody cares
by robertojdohnert on Tue 30th Jan 2018 10:57 UTC
robertojdohnert
Member since:
2005-07-12

I bring up this issue all the time with people and clients and the attitude is so cavalier and they just dont care. As long as they can Youtube and surf the web they just dont care. Thats the main issue that we have. People wont care until something happens that it affects them personally.

Reply Score: 1