It appears that Microsoft is getting more aggressive with Windows 11 promos. A Reddit user (the post is now removed) has published a photo of their Windows 10 computer with a full-screen Windows 11 ad offering to upgrade to the latest operating system. And in typical Microsoft fashion, available options are as head-scratching as it gets: two buttons, and both mean “I agree”.
It’s garbage all the way down.
This is terrible.
I have a Steam Deck, which I dual boot with Windows. A while ago, I tried installing Windows 11 instead, and guess what happened? Many features, including audio do not work.
This new Windows 11 release is supposed to be fully compatible Windows 10, as a drop in replacement. But in reality many things are not actually compatible. What makes it even sadder, is that they are gatekeeping new features, in order to force an upgrade.
Windows 11 is fine, when it works. But it is not working for everyone nor for every device.
I don’t disagree, but also just a hopefully helpful fyi, the latest windows 11 release works swimmingly on my steam deck. Everything works (aside from maybe gyro, but I haven’t had anything to test that).
that_guy,
Thanks, maybe I’ll give it another go at a future time.
Yep, we’ve had nothing but headaches with the few Windows 11 Pro machines we’ve bought to replace aging workstations at my job. Printers that worked fine with Windows 10 will install with Windows 11 but refuse to print. One could say “well that’s the printer manufacturer’s fault for not updating drivers” but this happens with the manufacturer provided Windows 11 driver, and as you said, 11 is supposed to be a drop in replacement for 10, which it clearly is not.
We’re a small company so we don’t have volume licensing or Enterprise, so it’s not as simple as “re-image the drive with Windows 10 LTSC/Enterprise”, we have to stick with the license the hardware came with. It’s always the small businesses and consumers who get the shaft from Microsoft, while simultaneously being forced into beta testing the OS and charged for the inconvenience on top.
They used to offer “Small Business” subscriptions that came with a server license + Windows + others.
I don’t remember when, but that stopped a while ago.
Unfortunately, they no longer seem to care about small business anymore. It is either personal computers, large companies, or startups.
(They have Azure grants for software startups).
How embarrassing would it be if, 2.5 years from now, Windows 10 support is expiring but most Windows users are still on Windows 10? That’s a future Microsoft wants to avoid.
Unfortunately, Windows 11 gives off a distinctly Vista-esque whiff, since it breaks drivers when the “Memory Integrity” feature is on (which is by default). For example: https://www.hauppauge.co.uk/site/products/data_wintv10.html#compatibility
Plus reducing performance in games.
Can’t Microsoft stop tinkering with Windows internals in a way that breaks drivers? Why can’t they realise that Windows’ dependence on third-party drivers imposes certain constraints? I understand why the Vista (Windows NT 6.x) breakage had to happen, but there is no reason for the Windows 11 breakage.
kurkosdr,
Microsoft isn’t new to that game. They may repeat the deceptive UI tactics they used to force users to upgrade windows 7 without obtaining clear owner consent. IMHO this is what finally pushed users off of windows 7 to windows 10.
I haven’t tried windows 11 yet, and probably won’t until forced to for work. But I too am tired of hardware breakages after OS upgrades. A printer here, GPU there, scanner, capture card, etc. In microsoft’s defense, it’s not just their fault, the manufacturers will no longer support the hardware either, But it’s so unfortunate when working hardware ends up in the landfill due to software & driver issues. Whether it’s computers or mobiles, we really need to do better. Consumers should not have to tolerate this. But since we’re dealing with a proprietary OS, with proprietary drivers, and proprietary hardware, there’s not really much a consumer can do when it happens to them other than create more e-waste 🙁
With the exception of GPUs (which need matching drivers for that OS version), Windows is compatible all the way down to Vista drivers. When it comes to Windows XP drivers, compatibility is partial, but most XP drivers are 32-bit anyway and won’t even load on 64-bit versions of the OS, so Vista broke compatibility at the “right” time if you ask me (Vista launched almost in parallel with the Core2 Duo).
I have never experienced breakages for hardware bought in 2008 and after. Which is how it should be for an OS like Windows that can’t talk to anything but the most generic hardware without third-party drivers. But no, let’s blindly introduce this “Memory Integrity” thing without giving users a clue it should be disabled if they have a problem with their drivers.
“Memory Integrity” should only be enabled only if all drivers in the system are “Memory Integrity”-safe (and Microsoft mandating “Memory Integrity”-safeness for drivers submitted to WHQL from now on), instead of breaking compatibility with existing drivers. But this is what you get when you have kids running the show over at Redmond. They move fast and break things as if Windows is a damn website.
kurkosdr,
That’s not always the case though. For example my last scanner worked in windows 8 and broke after a random windows 10 update. For their part the manufacturer confirms it’s no longer supported or compatible with current versions of windows 10. I’ve seen multi-function printers fail as well.
I agree that it shouldn’t be that way, but frankly after my experience with obsolete hardware, I’ve lowered my expectations on future compatibility. It’s going to happen and there’s not much I can do about it; all manufacturers stop supporting their hardware at some point and there’s no guaranty their windows drivers will simply continue to work.
This sounds all too familiar because I had very similar gripes with microsoft breaking my own drivers back in the day, haha. This actually provided a pretty big motivation for my switching to linux.
All platforms have problems and it’s not all roses here either. It’s one thing to get problems because we face challenges that are genuinely hard to solve, but when problems arise because of bad execution and disregard for users, I am much less forgiving of the later. Put bad leadership in charge of any platform and users will suffer.
That’s very weird. Can you name the brand and model of the scanner and what issue you are getting? The only things I can think about:
1) Windows 10 installed a “newer and greater” driver. That can be a problem because sometimes HP replaces old working drivers with “all in one” drivers that don’t work for older models (so you just manually install the old ones from the CD or your own archive), it’s a weird self-inflicted problem of HP’s doing
2) You need to manually load the driver from Device Manager (happens with non-WHQL drivers)
3) Check privacy settings (in case your scanner is considered an “imaging device”): https://www.hauppauge.com/pics/camera.jpg
That’s all the edge cases I can think of. There is no official driver breakage between Windows 8.1 and Windows 10, except for GPUs which need to keep up with the latest WDDM versions that Microsoft keeps putting out for every version (including the different versions of Windows 10).
kurkosdr,
I had trouble finding the link, but then I remembered posting it on osnews before, haha…
https://help.getdoxie.com/originaldoxie/software/windows10/
This isn’t even the first scanner I’ve experienced these compatibility problems with. This is both the manufacturer’s fault and microsoft’s fault. Both are being petty for their own reasons and owners are screwed. Sure we can just pay up for a new supported device, but damn it I am fed up with their efforts to mold me into an ewaste puppet. I’ve given up on having a scanner; results are worse but I’ve been making do with my cell phone camera. These are a huge e-waste problem too, but at least it’s something I already own and not an additional accessory.
The last HP printer I’ve had was for win xp, which became incompatible with windows 7. In our case the printer driver did not get updated by HP, rather the HP driver that worked in win xp stopped working in win 7. While microsoft did provide a driver via windows update, it was an older driver and moreover the windows update driver lacked support for the printer’s special features from day 1 (even on XP). Sometimes WU drivers are good enough, but as you know it’s often necessary to install drivers from the manufacturer’s website to get the latest drivers and get full functionality. Otherwise reverting to WU drivers can be regressive both in terms of functionality and bugs.
Yes, I’m familiar 🙂
That’s Interesting, does windows not provide any indication that windows 10 is blocking the TV tuner? Alas I’ve already thrown away my tv capture cards as they didn’t survive the upgrade to windows 7. Fortunately all the video I capture now is already on an SD card and doesn’t require additional hardware!
Maybe things would be better next time going forward, but I wouldn’t bet on it. Win 11 is officially discontinuing support for some relatively recent and high end computers, which will inevitably create more e-waste when win 10 looses support. While it may be possible to bypass these checks, how long will this work for without errors? I don’t know, I’m just annoyed that we’re not doing better as a society and unfortunately the financial incentive for companies is not to fix this 🙁
Sorry about my rant haha… I just feel strongly that hardware should only have to be replaced when it physically broken and not because of software problems and artificial OS restrictions.
I have no clue what they are harping on about. The method they describe to disable driver signature enforcement works in all versions of Windows 10, “Anniversary” or not, My guess is the hardware went officially off support before “Anniversay” launched and they refuse to provide support for it, but it will work just fine if you load the driver. Unless I see it not working, I won’t believe it. It’s extremely rare a scanner driver was broken between different versions of Windows 10. GPU drivers maybe (for example, Windows 1903+ introduced a new WDDM that partially broke switching between stereoscopic and non-stereoscopic mode in Nvidia 3D Vision, so I now have to Win-Shift-Ctrl-B after I am done with a stereoscopic game in order to reset the GPU), but scanner drivers? I want to see it to believe it.
Yup, that’s true, Windows Vista and above don’t promise compatibility with Windows XP, not even the 32-bit versions of those OSes. My success with running XP drivers on Windows Vista 32-bit has been 50-50. But since the vast, vast majority of Windows XP drivers are 32-bit only, that hardware was destined for the landfill anyway (64-bit Windows won’t even load 32-bit drivers), so at least Vista got the timing right to break compatibility. But I agree, lots of e-waste was created at that time, either because the 32-bit drivers didn’t work with Vista 32-bit or because there is no hope of that hardware ever working on 64-bit Windows.
Just be glad you got that. I had a TV tuner and video grabber that won’t work on Vista 32-bit or 64-bit at all (AverTV USB 2.0 Plus). Supposedly you can install the driver for the Media Center edition of this tuner by changing the inf file, but I only found out a while ago by chance and I will test it when I get back to my parent’s home.
I don’t know, my Windows 10 installation has this option enabled by default. Just enable it anyway, having it disabled serves no purpose other than “locking down” your webcam.
Rest assured that Microsoft’s ESG rating won’t be affected by this. This tells you what a gigantic scam ESG is. Even Exxon Mobil is ESG now ffs.
When it comes to peripherals, I think there should be standardised interfaces for all common hardware. If Webcams and USB thumbdrivers don’t need drivers, I don’t see why printers, scanners and tv tuners should. Some printers already support a standardised interface via Ethernet, so the fact they need special drivers for USB is just infuriating. Take this from a person who likes Wndows, the fact Windows relies so much on 3rd-party drivers is a problem. Even if Microsoft never breaks support for x86-64 drivers, a potential move to ARM will break them all. A generic interface solves that. My only hope is Apple making a big deal about how MacOS relies less on third-party drivers, I don’t see how it can be solved otherwise.
Anyway, my initial point remains. With the exception of GPUs (which need matching drivers for that OS version), Windows is compatible all the way down to Vista drivers, save for the need to disable “Memory Integrity” in Windows 11.
kurkosdr,
Yep, I tried that. Tried test signing mode, win 7 compatibility mode, manually installing the drivers. But nothing worked, the driver wouldn’t load, exactly as described by in the manufacturer’s link.
Ah the “I’ve never experienced this, therefor the problem doesn’t exist” gambit. Well frankly your faith that it didn’t break changes absolutely nothing for the users impacted by the fact that it did.
Yeah but it goes beyond that because we were using a 32bit version of windows 7 and it was still incompatible. Also, if I’m not mistaken it was a userspace driver, which should still work on 64bit kernels as long as the API doesn’t break. But then again, maybe my expectation on this is naive.
I’ve also experienced a lot more broken driver issues than we’ve talked about. One of the unexpected incompatibilities for me was with a USB mouse whose drivers worked in XP but not in 7. Technically the generic HID drivers worked, but I lost use of all the extended programmable buttons.
I agree, having standards also helps improve peripheral compatibility not only on windows but also other operating systems. Somewhere I actually have a webcam that only works with proprietary windows drivers and won’t work on linux at all. It ran on my last windows 7 desktop, I’m curious now if it still works on windows 10. Luckily the vast majority can enumerate as a standard webcam class device.
Not everything is a generic device so sometimes there may be a good reason to have custom drivers, but you’re right it is a problem. Incidentally I experienced this with proprietary UPS software on linux. The proprietary software worked great and did what I needed, however when I got an ARM system for my security cameras the x86 UPS software became unusable. Fortunately in my case it had already been reverse engineered and integrated into the open source NUT, which I got running on ARM with no problem.
https://networkupstools.org/
But I got lucky, and that’s not the case with many proprietary drivers.
Ideally all drivers would be open source and community supported, but I concede this is wishful thinking. In cases where performance is less important than compatibility, maybe a portable bytecode (.net/javascript/whatever) would be able to implement drivers in a highly portable way?
We’re going to have to agree to disagree because I know that to be false.
You tried option #7 in custom boot options and it didn’t work?
https://www.tenforums.com/attachments/tutorials/279252d1589830511-how-enable-disable-driver-signature-enforcement-windows-10-a-disable_driver_signature_enforcement_at_boot-5.png
Even with Secure Boot disabled? That’s weird, I’ve even loaded drivers with modified inf with option #7 even on Secure Boot systems. Still, not a compatibility issue with Vista drivers per se, more a problem with buying noname stuff without signed drivers. These drivers were never really compatible, they were taking advantage of the fact Windows had left that loophole open for too long.
As I’ve said before, Windows Vista and above don’t promise compatibility with Windows XP, not even when using the 32-bit versions of Windows Vista and above. As I’ve also said above, my success with running 32-bit XP drivers on Windows Vista 32-bit has been 50-50. There was a lot of uproar back then, and I proudly participated, but that was in 2007. Additionally, every XP 32-bit driver is useless anyway to most people due to the fact the vast majority of Windows installations today are 64-bit. If your device didn’t get a newer driver, it’s time to move on. Sad but true. However, every device bought from 2008 onwards or which has gotten Vista drivers should work. Your scanner is the only case I’ve heard. If you want both of us to learn more you can try with option #7 and with Secure Boot disabled or even option #7 with legacy boot/BIOS boot (though it takes some effort to change the boot method in Windows, so I understand if you don’t want to).
Not so much as you think, at least when talking about simple devices and not ones for things like GPUs. I am always baffled by the fact “driverless” isn’t the selling point it should be, considering how much of a pain drivers are. Even manufacturers getting together and deciding on a common driver talking to a standardised interface would be a big selling point, since the OS vendor can maintain that driver. Until that happens, I am just glad for the fact compatibility is maintained (though still gripping for the “memory integrity” thing).
I am just glad for the fact compatibility is maintained = I am just glad for the fact compatibility is maintained since Vista
kurkosdr,
Understand that this happened in the past and I’m not testing this now, but as I recall I did try and it didn’t work.
To be fair, I actually think it was signed correctly for windows 7. This is not something that occurred to me at the time, but now I suspect the real problem is likely microsoft revoking the CA’s trust root and windows 10 erroneously indicating that driver is not signed even though it is. The error is misleading, windows should report that the CA is no longer trusted…
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/68302908/windows-ms-signed-filter-driver-doesnt-load-on-win-7-x64-after-updating-driver
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/install/deprecation-of-software-publisher-certificates-and-commercial-release-certificates
So this seems to explain everything. The drivers stopped working after microsoft pushed a windows 10 update that changed the driver signing policy. the effect of which retroactively disabled drivers with now-expired certificates. Previously windows 7 and even windows 10 would continue to load said drivers even after the certificates expired. I think this is a satisfactory conclusion as to why the driver stopped working after the windows 10 update. So hopefully I’m not too optimistic in thinking we can agree now…?
Ok, that’s a problem. I didn’t know that.
kurkosdr,
I wouldn’t have dug back into this issue if you hadn’t pushed back, but I think the mystery is solved 🙂
I hope option #7 works if Secure Boot is disabled so we can save those drivers, but there is a good chance it won’t, so I agree it’s a compatibility breakage.
So, this narrows it down to “Vista drivers that have been signed with Microsoft Partner Center or are WHQL certified, minus GPUs (which need drivers matching the OS version)”.
That’s some qualifiers there, but WHQL devices are covered at least, which means big brand devices are covered.
I encountered that one and was horrified. It took me about 30 seconds of looking at that damn screen to see the “fuck you, let me do what I want” link.
I have an old laptop running win 10 which is not supported by win 11 (its core3 cpu is deemed too old).
Every time i run windows update i get this persistent ad for win 11; every time it points me to download the tool to check compatibility only to find out (every time) that my CPU is not supported …. So sorry
The implication is that you will see your CPU is not supported and be shamed into buying a new computer, because Windows 11 is the cat’s wiskers and people will totally junk working computers to have it. It’s almost the same arrogance Microsoft exhibited with Vista. That’s why I hope Windows 11 update takes a long time.
It’s not just the Windows 11 upgrade dialog, apparently they are doing something even worse with their full screen, modal Microsoft 365 nagware:
https://old.reddit.com/r/assholedesign/comments/10r2eto/windows_tried_to_pull_a_fast_one_on_me_by/
It wasn’t full screen, but I was getting ads for office 365 in ms teams.
They must not be pushing these ads too hard as I have 5 PCs in the family running Win 10 that meet the specs for Win 11, haven’t once been asked if I want to upgrade. Maybe they are only pushing it on newly bought PCs?
I don’t know who’s getting the ads. I personally haven’t seen this one either however I assume it’s down to one of these factors:
1) It’s an enterprise laptop with an enterprise version of windows.
2) I’ve gone through and disabled as many of the windows annoyance checkboxes I could find.
3) IT is managing updates, and might be blocking unnecessary updates/nagware
Normal users running defaults may have a different experience.
This isn’t my daily driver and I don’t pay too much attention to it other than VS project work. Incidentally microsoft’s VS licensing has gotten extremely buggy and many people can’t do work because the VS looses its activation status despite microsoft’s website confirming an active license. I’m not impressed with the quality of software coming out of microsoft these days.
Just disable the TPM.
Making a PC Win11-incompatible is so simple…
Not true.
https://www.ghacks.net/2021/10/05/how-to-install-windows-11-without-tpm-2-0/
Turns out You can install Windows 11 without TPM just Microsoft makes it a pain in tail.
The reason for Microsoft TPM demand is more line in sand if your hardware does not have a TPM it most likely is a CPU that is not built for the instruction set windows 11 needs.
https://www.theverge.com/22644194/microsoft-windows-11-minimum-system-requirements-processors-changes
Like noted here AMD Zen 1 CPU with Windows 11 will crash way more often as different parts of Windows 11 attempts to use instructions CPU does not have. Yes those CPU commonly have TPM 2.0 and on motherboards without TPM2.0 almost 100 percent of the time are not CPU instruction compadible.
BIOS disabled TPM or broken TPM does not equal unable to install and use Windows 11 instead equals installing is now painful because you have customize the install disc. Too old of CPU absolutely does equal cannot install Windows 11..
“you have to customize the install disc”
So, installation media for Windows 11 from Microsoft is incompatible with a computer with TPM disabled?
For what it’s worth, it’s not *that* painful. You can use the free Rufus utility to create the installation USB from the official Microsoft-provided ISO, and it prompts you for several install-time options including bypassing the TPM and CPU requirement checks. It also has an option to disable telemetry and skip the questions about telemetry, and to create an offline account even on “Home” editions where otherwise you’d be required to sign in with a Microsoft account. It’s quite the handy tool.
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/rufus-creates-custom-windows-11-installs
https://rufus.ie/en/
Edit: I had meant to reply to @oiaohm, sorry.
Define incompatible. Option
1)Make install media open install media delete 2 files then it installs after boot you may need to enter safe mode to set registry key saying no TPM.
2) option make install media delete 1 file and add no TPM registry key.
Using item like rufus to delete 1 file and set key that TPM is disabled.
https://github.com/pbatard/rufus/wiki/FAQ#help-i-no-longer-see-the-option-to-bypass-tpmsecure-boot-with-windows-11
rufus does have limitation of windows 8 or newer to get the Windows 11 TPM disable option. So if on windows 7 know the 2 file delete method could be tail saver here.
Customize windows 11 disk to remove TPM check there is even Microsoft documentation on how to do this using Microsoft tools.
As Morgan points out it there are lot of things that you may want disabled out the box so customize the Windows 11 installer.
By passing CPU checks with Windows 11 does not end up healthy in many cases
https://www.theverge.com/22644194/microsoft-windows-11-minimum-system-requirements-processors-changes
Microsoft has done a lot of testing of CPU and if they are not on the supported lists most case Microsoft has documented failure cases like the Zen1 mentioned in this theverge write up. If you willing to risk way more unstable system disable the CPU checks.
Fun point Morgan some windows 11 ISO versions are resistant to having TPM disabled. This is where it comes pain in tail. X version does not work so you get Y version and may need to install more updates or you have to correct the disc validation bits. Microsoft for most versions of Windows 11 install discs have intentionally not make the files for TPM support mandatory to be present that why you can disable TPM support just by deleting 2 files. But of course there are a few buggy Windows 11 installers out there. Yes there is a horrible hack to get around the Windows 11 discs that will not let TPM be delete use the setup program from the Windows 10 ISOs instead of the Windows 11 setup program yes this works.
Morgan you are right and wrong its not painful. It depends on what version of Windows 11 you are dealing with. Versions of Windows 11 ISO where you need basically kit bash Windows 10 iso and 11 iso into one so it installs is painful for level of pain. Good part is if you have a Windows 11 ISO that you need to kit bash with Windows 10 ISO to install without TPM Microsoft does class this is grounds to release a updates Windows 11 ISO that you don’t need todo that. Catch here is ISO like this has slipped past Microsoft quality control a few times and most likely will again in future. Yes rufus could need to try more than once.
Morgan I bet you presumed you could use rufus choose any version of Windows 11 to download select disable TPM and it works. Yes the catch is that is not the case there are some broken versions where it does not work. Microsoft does not provide just a single official ISO of Windows 11 they provide multi different versions. This is where it gets painful disabling TPM or disabling features as some you either disable TPM or disable feature(anti-features microsoft wants) and the installer breaks on selected versions of Windows 11 because the validation is turned up too high. Validation higher than OEM and enterprise want.
When Windows 11 installer customization works it easy. When Windows 11 installer customization does not it can be quite a head scratch-er making you think that your USB key must be broken or something when its the ISO due to the messages the installer failure spit out. Yes waste quite a bit of time and downloads and possible extra USB keys working this is the case.
So from almost zero pain to the worst annoying case of messages leading you away from what the issue is that is very painful.
A lot of good information there, thanks! I have only tested it with the “official” Windows 11 ISO download one can get from running the Windows 11 media creation utility. I’ve had none of the issues you presented even when installing on a Skylake (i5-6600) machine, as well as fully compatible devices with 3rd gen Ryzen and 10th gen Intel CPUs. But, I’m a data point of one so maybe I’m the fluke.
“Define incompatible.”
According to microsoft.com the Windows 11 System Requirements are “Trusted Platform Module (TPM) version 2.0”.
smashIt said that disabling TPM will cause Windows to see that your computer is incompatible with Windows 11, which is what this blog post and thread are in regards to.
What smashIt said is true.
That’s neat that people found a way to install Windows 11 regardless of TPM availability.
drcouzelis its not that simple.
Windows 11 IoT Enterprise yes the ISO images for Point of sale systems and equal don’t have the mandatory TPM requirement.
–That’s neat that people found a way to install Windows 11 regardless of TPM availability.–
Yes the alteration to a normal windows 11 iso so it installs without TPM is just how to do IoT enterprise install if you have lost the disc.
—smashIt said that disabling TPM will cause Windows to see that your computer is incompatible with Windows 11, which is what this blog post and thread are in regards to.
What smashIt said is true.—
The trap here you cannot be sure that Windows 11 will always do this. We have not got to the IOT enterprise versions getting forced updates to newer versions. That expected sometime 2024. So true for now might not be true in 2024.
Morgan yes Zen1 example by Microsoft shows that being in the untested CPU and it works it is a fluke but there is a second problem. Applications and drivers shipped to be used on Windows 11 can have be built for CPU Windows 11 support only. Yes the Missing CPU instructions bugs. Yes its very possible to fluke that you don’t have a graphics/network/…. drivers built for newer CPU only and are currently using no applications built for new cpu only. Problem with this fluke is some Windows update or application update in future can pull the rug straight out from under you.
oiaohm
You are overthinking it. All your points about it being possible to hack windows 11 to install anyways are well and good but you are missing the point being made by OP and drcouzelis. They’re not contradicting that the win11 installer can be modified to run on unsupported hardware. Rather the point is about microsoft’s unmodified installer considering the computer incompatible. That’s all.
I’d like to see this get tested to be sure the windows 11 installer actually enforces microsoft’s official requirements, but assuming it does then smashIt’s suggestion may well work.
Even assuming this is right, do you think MS will install an enterprise version of windows 11 on consumer PCs?
–I’d like to see this get tested to be sure the windows 11 installer actually enforces microsoft’s official requirements, but assuming it does then smashIt’s suggestion may well work.–
The only 1 dll and one registry key causes a normal Microsoft installer to enforce the limit. This is detailed in how to get around the limit.
This also means you are one minor packaging bug or minor storage error away from installer that does not check.
–Even assuming this is right, do you think MS will install an enterprise version of windows 11 on consumer PCs–
Alfman history really does not rule it out. It happened with Windows XP and Windows 7 that consumer version has end up with enterprise update that it should not have got causing minor mess when the enterprise versions that were remaining around should have been changed over to IOT/POS versions..
Windows 7 one was fun in 2019 where some peoples computers due to a particular update started claiming there were not activated then 3 days latter update made it all normal again.
The process is compatibility check followed by installer checking again. History with windows XP to Windows 7 and Windows 8 to Windows 8.1 free upgrades both had bugs where the compatibility check was skipped in some of the forced out notifications.
Assuming TPM disabled is 100 percent prevent Windows 11 upgrade from installing is assuming a little too much with the history of Microsoft stuffing up the process as they try to get people to upgrade to the new version. By the history past stuff up in this area its the IOT/POS version free upgrade offers when everything starts going wrong. So some time 2024 need to beware if still running windows 10 at that point.
Alfman what causes this problem is the enterprise and consumer versions of Windows 11/10/8/8.1/7/XP in fact use the same update files for the identical parts. All it is minor human error flagging the OS version update offer for Windows enterprise IOT version with the flag for all and they have done that twice before. Yes Windows 11 enterprise IOT version ISO intentionally does not check for TPM.
https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/ish_5031710-5031755-16
And there is a fun reason why there is a loophole to install with TPM disabled. There are many PC in china that cannot update with TPM enabled because their TPM functionality was killed at the factory.
https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/bypass-windows-11-tpm-requirement
Yes Microsoft provides the instructions how to edit the registry mid windows 11 install to disable the TPM check. Yes set the “BypassTPMCheck” registry key.
Alfman Yes the windows 11 installer contains intentional functionality to disregard the TPM check and function without TPM. Just Microsoft dues to provide simple GUI to access it.
oiaohm,
Well, theoretically a bug or storage error could do anything at all including erase your whole computer,, but do you have any evidence of this actually happening or is this just talk?
–Well, theoretically a bug or storage error could do anything at all including erase your whole computer,, but do you have any evidence of this actually happening or is this just talk?–
It if you mess around disabling TPM discs. You find that you can minor damage the dlls that does the TPM and hardware compatibility checks cause it to fail its checksum then the Windows 11 installer detects it damage does not load it and proceeds anyhow. You damage fairly much any other DLL and Windows 11 simple fails to install completely.
Alfman windows 11 installer is made to install Windows 11 without TPM when you dig into it. The restrictions are optional tacked on bits of the ISO.
Storage error with install media normally cannot do anything because of checksums and other validation will by design cause the installer to abort. Windows 11 with TPM and CPU restrictions and memory restrictions and storage restrictions is not this case.
Yes I would say windows 11 installer design is 100 percent intentional. It was not sure that the government of China could be got to reverse their ruling banning TPM chips so Microsoft had to have a plan B. Windows 12 when that comes out installing without TPM could truly be impossible by the installer design.
oiaohm,
You’ve been going down this rabbit hole but no-one besides you is referring to modifications. We’re talking about what microsoft’s own unmodified code does strait from microsoft. It’s in this context that you need to consider OP’s point. If you want to talk about something else, that’s fine but then it’s not really a rebuttal to what everyone else is talking about.
–We’re talking about what microsoft’s own unmodified code does strait from microsoft. —
1) windows enterprise IOT 11 Microsoft has already documented that the TPM requirement on that is going to be missing.
2) The difference between standard windows disc and IOT disc is in fact bugger all nightmare they are normally made from same master template shared between all editions of the same version of Windows..
3) Microsoft has historically mixed these things up more than once.
4) How much will microsoft want to gain Windows 11 market share in china?
Number 4 is a big one. Windows 11 design means they can drop the TPM requirement any time they want its not a feature that stops Windows 11 from functioning.
Deleting the files was not in fact modifying the code. It just showed what functionality is in the Windows 11 installer.
Yes currently disabling TPM should stop Windows 11 from installing without altering the installer. But we know Microsoft is going to be releasing modified installer for the windows enterprise IOT install updates. In the past more than once when Microsoft has done this they have screwed the main installers up as well.
Yes missing file so it does not check for TPM could slip though quality control. Microsoft edition production method has not changed in almost 20 years now so there is a nice predictable set of screw ups. Yes some feature being disabled in the IOT/embedded edition being disabled in other versions is perfectly normal particularly when the item is going to pass basic quality control tests.
oiaohm,
Obviously microsoft can technically do whatever they want, but I don’t really see microsoft allowing windows 10 home and pro users to upgrade to windows enterprise IOT 11.
If a microsoft error or bug updates computers that are incompatible, then microsoft would conceivably end up facing a class action lawsuit for damages.
Is your assertion here that microsoft is going to reduce windows 11 minimum requirements in the future? It’s possible, but again I’d like to see evidence for that.
That is a load of bull. There is nothing in a late Skylake CPU with TPM2 that isn’t in an early Skylake (or Haswell for that matter) CPU without TPM. The reason they wan’t TPM is because it is malware, and they want to spy on you and steal control of your computer from you.
Carewolf,
By itself, I wouldn’t necessarily call TPM “malware”. it’s just a tool, but it’s true that it can be used for good and bad. It could certainly help microsoft implement and enforce anti-features like DRM or restrictions that deny owner control. IMHO the owner SHOULD be allowed to turn it off, but microsoft can significantly cripple windows or even disable login in that case if they wanted to. So people being ok with microsoft’s TPM mandate because they can disable it for now might be in for a rude awakening in the future assuming microsoft’s “soft mandate” turns into a hard one.